May 08, 2007
Flying while brown, even if JewishNews
Not being brown is no protection against being profiled as brown [via UB]. You don’t have to be Muslim, you don’t have to be desi, you can even be Jewish and you can still be physically attacked by a vigilante passenger acting in the name of “security”:
Seth Stein is used to jetting around the world to create stylish holiday homes for wealthy clients… As he settled down with a book and a ginger ale, the father-of-three was grabbed from behind and held in a head-lock.
“This guy just told me his name was Michael Wilk, that he was with the New York Police Department, that I’d been acting suspiciously and should stay calm. I could barely find my voice and couldn’t believe it was happening,” said Mr Stein.
“He went into my pocket and took out my passport and my iPod. All the other passengers were looking concerned.” Eventually, cabin crew explained that the captain had run a security check on Mr Stein after being alerted by the policeman and that this had cleared him. The passenger had been asked to go back to his seat before he had restrained Mr Stein … He has since been told by airline staff he was targeted because he was using an iPod, had used the toilet when he got on the plane and that his tan made him appear “Arab”. [Link]
Tan + toilet use + iPod = suspicious passenger.So Wilk felt Stein was acting “suspiciously” because he was swarthy, used the toilet and had an iPod. Wilk complains to the Captain who runs a security check and says the passenger is OK. Wilk still attacks him anyway!
Are the other passengers concerned about this vigilante passenger who doesn’t listen to the Captain and who attacks innocent architects? No - they’re happy to have him on board, making them safer from the dark skinned man:
“This man could have garrotted me and what was awful was that one or two of the passengers went up afterwards to thank him,” said Mr Stein… Mr Stein said: “The other passengers looked and me and said, ‘What did you do?’ It was so humiliating. The fact is he [the police officer] was told I was OK and should have left me alone. [Link]
The story gets weirder - it turns out that “Wilk” may have lied about his real identity, which is fishy behavior for a law enforcement officer:
In a twist to the story, Mr Stein has since discovered that there is only one Michael Wilk on the NYPD’s official register of officers, but the man retired 25 years ago. Officials have told the architect that his assailant may work for another law enforcement agency but have refused to say which one. [Link]
Law enforcement is supposed to fight bad guys and act transparently, not attack civilians and hide their identities.
The airline apologized, sorta, but not really, blaming it all on “Wilk”:
American Airlines apologised to Mr Stein, who was born in New York, but withdrew an initial offer of $2,000 compensation on the grounds it would be an admission of liability. In a letter dated 30 May, the airline said it had done everything possible to try and protect Mr Stein.
It read: “Unfortunately, as in any public gathering, there may be occasions when a conflict arises between people or when one individual’s actions bother another… As our crew members may not always be witness to the inappropriate acts of a particular passenger, there may be a limit to what our crews can do to improve behaviour that is perceived as a nuisance.” [Link]
Yeah - having somebody grab you and put you in a headlock and go through your personal belongings is a “nuisance.” Would it have been a “nuisance” if it had been the other way around?
Stein, obviously, is suing the airline.
This is the reason why I reject the claim that Sikhs would not get attacked if people could better distinguish Sikhs from Muslims. Xenophobia is generic, bigots don’t care. Both as a matter or principle and practice, I prefer to advocate for everybody’s civil rights, not just those of my subgroup.
Note: The original story is dated October 2006.
More on Stein and his high end architecture practice: Firm website, other photos
Related posts: Same old story, Fear of flying, Flying while anybody through Vegas, What’ll get you interrogated, Would you turn down a quarter-million dollars?, Recycling While Brown, Speak American in America!, All brownz must speak English in this airport
ennis on May 8, 2007 01:13 PM in News · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
I don't know what's more sickening---the paranoia, or the incompetence.
NYPD? That had LAPD all over it...
Probably not NYPD, although this raises the question of whether it was Wilk at all, working for somebody else, or somebody claiming to be Wilk, which would be weirder.
just was looking at stein's work. impressive as shit.
Even if the guy was a cop, since when does the NYPD have jurisdiction in airspace an hour out of New York? That would be some 400 miles NE of JFK . . .
Lawsuit...big time.
M. Nam
Wilk is the average joe as defined by Malkin. This is just sick!
As someone once said
"HELL IS OTHER PEOPLE"
And isnt that the truth! What kind of tard goes up to someone and congratulates them for attacking a innocent person?
Hahaha! True, taz!
That’s disgusting. American airlines should be ashamed.
Poor George Hamilton, I bet he gets the airplane seat headlock all the time. I feel for all the WASPy hedge fund managers returning from vacation in Bermuda..they are just one bad tan away from Gitmo
The people who thanked "Wilk" for his rotten behavior are the most heinous souls here.
I always go to the restroom when I board the plane, esp. if it takes a while to take-off. I get really sick whenever I travel. I guess I should expect this when I fly. Of course, that's exactly why I don't fly - not the fear of being sick, but being assaulted, etc., if I do.
Innocent guy gets choked by paranoid nutjob, who may or may not be a cop, and the airline withdrew the $2000 compensation (cheap as it is) because it's an "admission of liability"? The story just keeps getting better.
I hope he sues them for millions. But then again, they'll turn right back around and pass it to the rest of us passengers as some other kind of fee. Notice how taxes and fees and are climbing up to something like 25% of the ticket price?
But I'm sure the govt will be ready with another bailout. Bah!
I wonder what would have happened if Mr. Stein had acted in self defense. For all he knew, the guy putting him in a headlock was the terrorist himself!
As someone once said
"HELL IS OTHER PEOPLE"
That would be Jean Paul Sartre and I agree wholeheartedly.
Ha! ha! So true!! All those tanning products out there are going to make whole alot of people look "Arab". You have heard of driving while black, well this is flying when brown.
I'm embarassed that anyone living in the West would actually think this argument makes any sense at all. How many xenophobes really care about your religion more than the fact that you're "Other", and are therefore stealing their jobs, corrupting their youth, making Baby Jesus cry, etc...?
Intersting thoughts in #15, cicatrix. I hope the airline industry doesn't get into trouble again. I like it better than the expensive white elephant that Amtrak is.
Can Seth Stein bring assault charges of some kind on "Wilk?" The airline may bring up something lame like they can't release the passenger manifest. Yeah, cicatrix, taking away the loose change of $2000 to repel any culpability is a pretty cheap shot. Sue away, Seth, my man, sue away.
D'oh -- must have messed up the "close blockquote" tag while editing.
Also, I'm not surprised that people congratulated "Wilk" (if that is his real name). That's the part of the story that ALWAYS troubles me after these incidents. It reminds me of when Jeb Bush went out of his way to congratulate that Shoney's waitress on detaining those med students right after 9/11. The fact that people LIKE seeing anyone "weird looking" treated like a terrorist is really scary to me.
Nice houses he's designed.
You did say you're on the market, right?
I was just thinking that Ennis, we could bond over stories of racial stereotyping and modernist architecture.
The link to the Independent's article is dated 7 months ago, have there been any developments on the story since then?
He would've been on his way to sunny Cuba...Lovely time of the year in the tropics, you know...The wildlife is all friendly (that dog is just being friendly Abdul!), you get to learn new water sports courtesy the USMC and you enjoy that much sought after anonymity, the kind where nobody can get in touch with you for a year or two, and vice-versa...
Redneck terrorism is better than brown terrorism...
As to the idiots who thanked the Jack Bauer wannabe, I hope you go sterile and if you don't, hope your kids vote for Chelsea Clinton!
What I took away from this story: the best way to draw attention away from yourself on an airplane is to make accusations about anyone "swarthier than thou" (STT.) This way, the captain, flight crew and fellow passengers will concentrate their attention and anxiety on the STT.
A NYPD cop?????
I hope this is not a case of a NYPD cop who was friends of cops who died on 9/11 and has some issues with flying with brown people. Maybe he has some serious emotional issues that he needs to deal with.
I hope this is not a widespread problem with cops and fighterfighters in New York.
If Mr.Stein has defended himself he would not have been sent to Cuba. Some of you people need to stop overdramatizing things.
Maybe you do too:
Let's hope not clueless! Who knows, you could be in a headlock soon if you happen to be scratching your itchy balls whilst flying with this geezer one day!
A liar. One who attacked somebody who had been cleared.
It's not a widespread problem with cops and firefighters. They are OK with brown people.
i'm not sure what exactly you mean by that, but even if he was otherwise clean in terms of a security clearance, i'm sure having a name like 'stein' must have helped him to some extent, post facto. not to me, but to the general american population. people have gone to guantanamo with much less 'evidence' pending against them, and i'm sure an 'exotic' name must factor into some standard of bias. clearly 'exotic' looks seemed to work against him in the first place.
Very good post and comments. I linked to it and added Sepia Mutiny to my blogroll at China Matters as an exemplar of what a impassioned yet collegial group blog can be. Best, China Hand
Horrible. Poor guy...I'm glad he's taking action. I gotta wonder, would an average Joe Desi have filed a lawsuit like this, or would he/she be more apt to just "move on and not make waves"?
I saw nothing else. In fact, all the other sources quoted the Independent even in October.
This is a good point. We've come to accept it at some level. When I go through airports, I expect a longer more hassled wait. I'm not delusional and believe that I'll be treated the same way as the blondest, bluest eye'd American. But take someone who's never faced such irrational scrutiny - and you know waves will be made.
But I wouldnt expect any changes, the white Christian majority will no doubt be open to a few false positives, if it makes them believe they are immune to miss-detects.
This story is old, so I wonder what ended up happening. I can't believe he didn't demand to have the "cop" detained for assault when they landed. So it's ok to put a fellow passenger in a headlock and just say "woops" afterward?
who's up for contacting him to see what ended up happening?
It’s sort of like the Brasilian Jean Charles de Menezes shot on the London Underground. If Mr Stein showed any defense at that moment it could have cost him more. And in the eyes of those stupid thankful passengers and the flipping airline it would have been justified.
out of curiousity, did this happen in economy or in business? I couldn't get to Seth Stein's website (taking too long to load), but it gave me the impression that he would be flying business.
Could you image how much worst things would be if Richard Reid not been stopped by other passangers on Flight 63 on December 22,2001. I know Richard Reid was not brown, but his religous background would have gotten alot of attention.
In the end that would have resulted in alot more Seth Stein's and Joe Desi Singh's having problems flying.
Jean Charles de Menezes was going about his normal business too and still killed by police, the police who are their to protect. If the guy was a police officer or not does not matter, he was trying to be a have a go hero.
Richard Reid was trying to light the fuse in his shoe when people intervened.
Nobody knew his religious background. He was just another black man. That's one of the things that makes profiling so dangerous - it squanders scarce resources on false positives.
The USA just made another round of arrests in an alleged terror plot. Most of them men were white and European (Albanians to be precise). Focusing on the guy with the tan ignores the pale skinned guys who, if the US government is to be believed, were training to attack an American military base on US soil.
Rudie C you misread my comment. I was talking about how if Richard Reid had blown up flight 93, then you would have seen alot more of these incidents that Mr.Stein had to deal with.
The problem is that alot of people have FOFWB= Fear Of Flying With Brown or FOFWM= Fear of Flying With Muslim. I know that this is wrong, but it take a long time for people to lose these fears.
yeah but there was a reason to stop him.
There are countless incidents everyday people are stopped (maybe not attacked like this guy) for simple reason of the colour of their skin.
Ennis, I was talking about that Richard Reid religous backgroud would have gotten alot of attention after the plane had been blown up.
Four of the 6 men arrested today were albanians, other 2 were from the middle east. But they all have the same religous background.
Exactamundo. The same reason one can get into much trouble for dialing 911 prematurely/irresponsibly. The same should hold in these situations as well.
Point is, if you're too busy looking at the guy with the tan, you might miss the pale skinned guy without one. What are you going to do - check foreskins?
Take a look at this. Thousands of Americans tortured and killed because of the color of their skin. The events were commemorated with postcards. People - whole families - stood around and had their photos taken next to other human beings who had been hanged and burned alive. We're talking about children standing next to a dead mutilated corpse. Towns took mementos, put the grisly remains of people up for display.
Should my Black friends attack white people who they think are menacing? How long is the "long time" it takes people to lose their fears? This wasn't just an attack by a single organization, this was a nationwide practice that continued up through the 20th century.
How about my Jewish friends who lost huge portions of their families in the Holocaust? How should they feel when they hear a German accent? How long does it take before you "get over" an attempt to wipe your entire group from the face of this earth?
I don't see them attacking people from the same vague group that once attacked them and calling it "security".
May this Wilk fellow rot in hell. He makes everyone in uniform who does their job look bad.
excellent points in #51 ennis. the service on american is poor enough, this takes the cake. i will definitely try not to fly on american and use my miles on other carriers.
"hope this is not a case of a NYPD cop who was friends of cops who died on 9/11 and has some issues with flying with brown people. Maybe he has some serious emotional issues that he needs to deal with."
Most of the NY fireman (not sure about the police), know those planes weren't flown by "Arabs", and they know it was an inside job. They knew it almost from the start. They have been silenced. And no, most have no beef with brown.
I say no more.
I wonder: does anyone know by law who is the final legal authority on a commercial aircraft? Before 9/11 and in accordance with tradition, it was the captain. Now with sky marshals and other government security agents on board, has his authority been trumped? That is, if the captain had ordered "officer" Wilk to stand down, would Wilk have been forced to comply?
So the airlines will never punish anyone for rotten behavior, nor will they accept any liability. One day, a year or two after 9-11 we were on an airplane when the woman behind us asked us not to recline our seats. Now, I happen to believe this is an absurd, selfish request anyway, but we agreed to move up a little. Then, she began kicking our seat viciously and calling us assholes. No joke. We asked her to stop, but she kept doing it. (The reason she needed the extra room was she had a 6 year old on her lap, but the kid had his own seat he could have been sitting in, next to her). So finally after about 15 minutes of this nonsense, we complained to the flight attendant. She said NOTHING to the evil woman, but instead made us move, after telling us that if we couldn't resolve the argument, they would have to divert the plane! I wonder what she would have done if there were no other empty seats on the plane? It was probably for the better that no one had to sit in front of that crazy passenger, but some poor guy who had previously had 3 seats to himself was stuck sitting next to us. I was really annoyed about the whole thing, but now I realize it could have been worse--the kicking woman could have accused us of suspicious behavior. It's easier for the airline to mess with reasonable people than to call out unreasonable ones.
inside job? c'mon, everyone knows the
jewsisraelis did it. don't you listen ot al-manar tv? why do you think 4000 jews skipped work on 9-11?so probably stein was targeted b/c he was jewish. wilk was just uncovering the truth, which explains why this story has disappeared, as the zionist controlled international financiers at the world bank control the media.
I sure hope there is a large law suit in the offing, but I suspect they will settle out of court.
This also brings up the larger question: is a police department, even one as good as nypd, the ideal vehicle for *preventing* crime (except as second order deterrance effects) ? Their main training and focus seems, rightly, on detecting the perpetrator and prosecuting him/her. It seems to me that an intelligence agency specifically for airport/airline security is what is called for here. In spite of recent mis-steps, I would personally trust an army/intelligence officer to make the more appropriate choices rather than some small town deputy/marshall with cowboy ideas of heroism.
Every now and then, a new story emerges. I don't see an end to this in the near future. There will always be people (lots) who'll be "scared" of me due to my brown skin. There was a time when I used to get pissed off whenever I heard any such stories. But now it seems that I have taken it for granted that such incidents will take place regularly and the wisest thing for me is to not attract any undue attention (while flying) and keep a low profile. I know it sucks..but I'm not good at confrontations.
Sorry to hear #56, desishiksa.
Yeah, great example for her 6 year old too.
If you were white, you could have put her in her place. Being brown on a plane, it just isn't worth it. Though I don't think I could have kept my cool if she had done that to me.
Reed got caught lighting his shoes on fire. These other guys got caught trying to buy guns from a cooperating arms dealer. Both cases they made their behavior blatant.
Crazy is a possibility...but it sounds more like she just had that "I don't care what anyone thinks" attitude that so many Americans (but usually not Desi-Americans) have. Supremely self-confident. Kind of like how Jade Goody behaved with Shilpa Shetty. Much as I often hate such behavior, I also usually have a bit of admiration that people can be so unconcerned about how others around them feel. And it is hard to counter such people in public because they will (usually) not back down.
I used to be afraid of flying because of terrorism and plane crashes...
Now I'm afraid of flying ALSO because some Jack Bauer wannabe might strangle me for using my MP3 player, or because from a certain angle my nose looks "vaguely ethnic".
:-(
Recently, I was making a connection across two large cities on the east coast after a 15hr non stop international flight. I was totally jetlagged and suffering from extreme lack of sleep(the international flight being completely full and my seat surrounded by a sea of cranky kids). Anyhow, on the domestic flight, I happened to be seated across the aisle from a guy who took out a small book and started reading loudly immediately after take off. At first, I thought he was reading hebrew, but I looked closely and it turned out to be arabic. And then, my brains (being totally fried from the long journey) started churning full time and I started imagining all kinds of stupid worse case scenarios.
I was one step away from creating a scene, paying full attention to the guy and his movements and it wasn't so much as xenophobia (right now, I can't even remember what the guy looks like) , as much as a feeling of why me? why now? what's going to happen? and I don't want to die.
Of course, nothing did happen. I was exhausted and ergo stupid, paranoid and reading too much into something that was never a problem.
Funny thing, his immediate co passengers were two white women, middle aged, probably moms, who didn't bat an eyelid at his 'behavior'.
If someone on a plane starts reading a book out loud they deserve a beat down, regardless of race!
reg desishiksa's incident, amitabh siad...
one needs a fair amount of tact in dealing with such situations, if you indeed decide to fight back. Avoid defensiveness like the plague at all points, else the opposition tries to pin you down and make you look stupid, but at the same time make sure to be politely aggressive and stern... a rather lengthy and subtle list of conditions to satisfy, against an opposition that has only one thing to bother abt during teh course of the exchange: make you look stupid while not caring abt being rude themselves...so obviously they have it easier... but since in geenral most such insensitive ppl tend to be stupider than you on average, it can be pulled off, if in hte right frame of mind :D
weird, since when did brown mean desi?
I use brown for basically everything that isn't white black or yellow. which includes most south americans and arabs.
hmmmm... possibly 2oo much generalization up there.
Let's all go swadeshi and only fly on Kingfisher & Jet Airways when they expand their routes internationally.
Oh well, even now you can fly Air Inida whenever possible, but to warn you beforehand, I heard they can be very rude too. A friend tellsm me an air hostess once woke him up for a meal by tapping him on the head :D
#56 Desishiksa - Probably best response in this situation is the good old satyagraha. Smile sweetly and do nothing. What is she going to do? Complain about the 'suspicious' fact that you reclined your seats? And she can't kick viciously for the whole flight.
.
i thought we were wheatish, at least that's what all the matrimonial ads say. we should call ourselves the Wheats. maybe manish can change the name of his blog to UltraWheat. This will help us distinguish ourselves from the Browns. of course, i'll miss having a football team named after me. but we get cream of wheat in return. once you go wheat, there's no other meat.
The private carriers in India (i.e. Jet, Kingfisher) kick Air India's butt. An awesome standard of service by any metric. But even if I get stuck on Air India, the worst I will have to deal with is the hostess's condescenion over having to serve a Madrassi like me, not very likely she will strangle me with her dupatta like some thugee for having a preflight "biobreak" or listening to newly reconstituded Menudo on my ipod :-)
p.s. I don't really listen to Menudo
#74. We could appropriate 'swarthy'. Then we can take ownership of everything Swarthmore. ;)
I can vouch for the fact that Kingfisher Airlines is awesome. From the moment you get to the terminal, they have staff waiting to help you. Their lines move quickly, their staff and crew are professional and courteous. And, since I think it is a very deliberate marketing strategy on their part, it must be said that their female flight attendants are gorgeous. Their food is good too, and the planes are clean and new. Good inflight entertainment systems as well. One of the few genuine (i.e. no hype) examples of India Shining. Good fares too (at least for NRIs and 2nd gens). Right now I think they are just domestic within India, I can't wait until they offer flights from America (in the planning stages I think).
kingfisher is good - theres no way an airline name after a beer can be bad :-)
having vijay mallya as a ceo doesnot hurt either
lol - true that - they definitely have the american FA's beat anyday
Singapore Airlines is good too. Or maybe I'm just too patriotic. Hmm...
You know, in retrospect that would have been the right thing to do, but I erroneously believed that appealing to the authorities would help, since we thought we were in the right. Also I read about a similar incident in some trashy memoir by a flight attendant, and in that case the flight attendant took the side of the recliner, not the objecter. So I guess the moral of the story is, you're on your own on an airplane these days. And it seems it's not good to call attention to yourself if you are traveling while brown, so if it happens again, I'll go the satyagraha route!
True...I've told people off on one or two occasions on airplanes for bad behavior, but now it's just not worth that small satisfaction of getting the better of them.
The world keeps getting crazier, more hostile and more insane with each passing day. Something about airplanes make people crazy too. My guess is that when people are herded into a cramped uncomfortable and stuffy environment with little or substandard food, some people will lose their sanity (or what little they had prior to boarding.)
Bad news for the good guys trying to fly coach. ( Although one can that argue problems can occur for brown people in first class, too.)
I also have some doubts about the insanely idiotic Wilk person. He needs to be investigated further because it sounds like he might have stolen someone's identity in addition to being guilty of an assault. Wilk really needs to be in some institution because he seems to be the real threat to society unless he gets some serious psychiatric help.
Jeez, I had a bathroom incident when flying recently as well and on American Airlines - what's with their passengers?
I was calmly waiting for the toilet when all of a sudden this really annoying voice screeches: "Excuse me!"
BIG: Looking around bewildered, wondering if I'm hearing voices.
Crazy lady: "Excuse me! There is no waiting in the aisleway, you NEED to use the bathroom!"
First of all I wasn't waiting for the toilet by the cockpit.
Secondly, there was someone in the toilet, it wasn't empty like she assumed. The person just didn't shut the latch all the way and the light that shows the toilet is occupied was only partially lit.
BIG: "Someone is in the bathroom."
Annoying bitch: "No there isn't!"
BIG: "Yes there is."
Another annoyed passenger who came to BIG's rescue: "Yes there IS!"
At this time the man using the toilet comes out and I go to use it.
When I exit, the lady has the gall to look at me sheepishly and smile.
WTF! I was so pissed, I wanted to say to her:
"When all the other passengers were waiting, how come you didn't yell at them??!?? Is it because I'm brown?!!? How come you didn't ask yell at any of the white passengers while they were waiting??"
But then I realized, it's not worth it because 1) She or someone else may take my response as suspicious and 2)I frankly was too tired to deal with her.
It's just scary to think how that is just something we have to expect when flying while brown, male or female...
I have one better. Smile sweetly and say that they'll be hearing from my lawyer.
@nisha, #79
in fact, much as i dislike to, i agree singapore airlines is good.
but to me---and from your comment you probably disagree with me---s'pore is the second most racist place i know of. and there, racism comes out of pure contempt, not because of fear as in these stories. i stopped flying s'pore airlines for that reason. but kuala lumpur turned out to be just the same or even worse. so bangkok it has been ever since! :) coup or not, lovely country.
by which i mean racism is expressed because of contempt not fear.
Bytewords,
I'd have to agree with you on the rascism count. The only thing is it's all very subtle. If anyone made overt gestures of rascism, they'd be hauled up into court before they knew what hit them. And yes, it's mostly out of contempt. I can identify with that being part of the minority. You'll be happy to know, though, that things are changing. Changing slowly, but still...
DDiA wrote:
"Smile sweetly and say that they'll be hearing from my lawyer."
When dealing with Americans, this is THE thing to say. ;-)
"Smile sweetly and say that they'll be hearing from my lawyer."
The Lawyer might not be able to do too much about it thanks to this new piece of legislation.
Additionally, you will have to pay his attorney fees and cost of lawsuit.
This piece of junk has not passed the Senate yet and will soon pass.
SEC. 137. IMMUNITY FOR REPORTING SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITIES AND MITIGATING TERRORIST THREATS RELATING TO TRANSPORTATION SECURITY.
@ Amitabh . Kingfisher is indeed awsome. I have yet to fly them but i will soon. Even their ground staff (at least at BLR) are lovely ;). Apparently they are planning to fly BLR-SFO nonstop when they get the rights and aircraft.
What I find very frustrating is that NOW would be a perfect time for MSNBC to take a quotation from this blog (anyone of the good responses to this thread), not that lame-ass troll post in the conservative blogger thread. ARG!!!
That should not affect the jihadists accused in the Fort Dix plot if they decide to sue the Circuit City clerk who tipped off the FBI in Jan 2006.
i dont see how its the airline's fault. how can it control f*er americans like this wilk mofo from losing it? how can it control other folk from going up to the mofo and thanking him? but i can see the airline helping this architect guy to try to find that idiot wilk and sue the s*it out of him.
That should not affect the jihadists accused in the Fort Dix plot if they decide to sue the Circuit City clerk who tipped off the FBI in Jan 2006.
The 'jihadists' will soon all be charged with immigration violations and deported. The terrorism charges, will as usual, be dropped.
Vikram: I finally got to your email the other day and started to reply but the email address was not functional anymore.
At least it's not anti-semitic if you attack him thinking he's an Ay-rab. Think about that. Well, actually, don't.
re: #96. Not sure if you were joking or not, so in case not...Arabs are semitic as well. The conflation of semitic with jewish is unfortunate because it masks the underlying connection between the Jews and Arabs (and some of us happen to be both).