Indonesian women are enslaved in the U.S, desperate, option-less women everywhere are exploited by those who should know better but don’t care.

a lot of these cases of domestic slavery cases seem to involve immigrants and/or expats who are simply recreating social relations that would be totally conventional in their nation of origin. e.g., there was a case in colorado of an arab family that had basically enslaved a filipino maid. and there have been cases of west african immigrants bringing people over from their home villages and attempting to recreate "patron-client" relations.

The woman has simultaneously one of the most beautiful and most cruel faces I've seen in a long time.

Awful news, and unfortunately all too common.

I'm so proud to be from Lawn Guyland, and 15 mins from Muttontown at that, (which wins for best Long Island town name next to Amityville and Hicksville, btw). I'm sad to say that while growing up and going over to friends' houses, I encountered many illegal immigrants who were maids/servants. They always looked frightened and homesick. It's sad because these families could have afforded regular maid services rather than benefitting from slave labor, essentially. I'm sure the wages and treatment were both sub-par, even if outright abuse wasn't involved. It's not suprising to me that this couple is of East Indian descent.

(Btw, is it just me or does that lady look wayyy older than 35-years-old!? Atleast 10 years older than that!)

The woman has simultaneously one of the most beautiful and most cruel faces I've seen in a long time.

Rather like this one ?

And Camille, when you say 'all too common' - do you mean in North America, by South Asian perpetrators?

And Camille, when you say 'all too common' - do you mean in North America, by South Asian perpetrators?

OMG!

Yeah.. Not cool.. I hope they are punished appropriately..

This is atrocious--I hope this couple gets all they deserve for treating another human being this way.
on another note, this is a much better news item than the shamita shame shame anecdote--lets not descend to tabloid level on this blog.

a lot of these cases of domestic slavery cases seem to involve immigrants and/or expats who are simply recreating social relations that would be totally conventional in their nation of origin.

You are right. In India such behavior would not seem as outrageous as it seems to be (and in fact is) in the US. The courts should take that into account during sentencing. Someone was telling me the other day about a case in Cleveland where some Somali women were being deported for burning their children with iron rods as a means to discipline them.

Before anybody misinterprets what I said, I am not suggesting that such cruelty is common place in India. All I am saying is that the treatment of maids in India is much different from the treatment of domestic help in the US.

(Btw, is it just me or does that lady look wayyy older than 35-years-old!? Atleast 10 years older than that!)

No, it's not just you. Something seems askew. Of course, some people age faster than others. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that she's been a victim of abuse herself.

The women were subjected to beatings, scalding water thrown on them, and forced to climb up and down stairs as punishment for misdeeds, prosecutors said. In one case, they said, one of the women was forced to eat 25 hot chili peppers at one time.

I'm guessing that's not all that happened. It sounds like the perpetrators had other... needs... especially considering they were wealthy enough to afford a small army of hired hands.
This charming couple was the first thing that came to mind when I read that article. Who knows what they'll find when they dig up the Sabhnani's back yard...

The couple should be ashamed of themselves. ( Mrs. Sabhnani looks like Cruella De Ville and the evil queen from Snow White combined.) I think they should be forced to community service including cleaning public restrooms and not just picking up litter in parks.

I think they should be forced to community service including cleaning public restrooms and not just picking up litter in parks.

The only public restrooms they'll be cleaning are the ones in Sing Sing...

I don't even want to imagine how often this scene plays out here in the U.S. I can still remember first being shocked by this through a very high profile case in the Los Angeles area (posh Rancho Palos Verdes) about eight years ago involving an Indonesian couple enslaving their Indonesian maid (even worse than this story because the woman was also raped by the husband).
see link (I remember much more detailed accounts in the LA Times)

This is really disturbing to read....
I hope the 'captors' are suitably punished.

You would think all immigrants would have automatic compassion bred inside of them for other immigrants. I guess not.

The courts should take that into account during sentencing. Someone was telling me the other day about a case in Cleveland where some Somali women were being deported for burning their children with iron rods as a means to discipline them.

I don't know how I feel about taking "cultural relativism" into account during sentencing -- by that logic you keep climbing on and on up the ladder of heinous acts. There are cases where Somali and East African communities are bringing "cutters" to North America to perform female circumcision/mutilation.

It's difficult to walk that cultural line, but as they say, ignorance of the law is not a legitimate defense.

(Btw, is it just me or does that lady look wayyy older than 35-years-old!? Atleast 10 years older than that!)

No, it's not just you. Something seems askew. Of course, some people age faster than others. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that she's been a victim of abuse herself.

It's probably a typo, people. I highly doubt she's 35.

The woman has simultaneously one of the most beautiful and most cruel faces I've seen in a long time.

Btw, is it just me or does that lady look wayyy older than 35-years-old!? Atleast 10 years older than that!)

i was struck by the face too. looks like she's right of the casting couch. definitely witchy, dorrian grayish. anjelica huston should play her in the movie.

...expats who are simply recreating social relations that would be totally conventional in their nation of origin...

The scalding water and the closet prison: totally conventional? What crazy part of India is that normal.

this is a much better news item than the shamita shame shame anecdote--lets not descend to tabloid level on this blog.

Some of us are able to enjoy both types of stories. One doesn't cancel the other. Besides, not everyone is going to like every post yadda yadda yadda.

And Camille, when you say 'all too common' - do you mean in North America, by South Asian perpetrators?

I grew up on LI too - and all I was aiming to do by going to Newsday was just check up on the Mets. This was not what I wanted to see.

I would hesitate to adopt the "look at them" attitude expressed by some posters. If the evidence is persuasive, throw the book at them, but simply pointing out their Cruella de Ville looks is not evidence of guilt. No one looks good on a perp walk, which is why cops do it.

Hi chachaji, I meant in North America, not necessarily by South Asian-origin perpetrators.

Thanks for clarifying, Camille. Put together with scorps1027 @ #4, it all makes a little more sense.

Still, being forced to eat 25 hot chilli peppers (exactly 25 ?). So parts of the story seem surreal, even if the big picture - exploited, abused, underpaid, female, 'illegal' domestic help - seems common enough.

(Btw, is it just me or does that lady look wayyy older than 35-years-old!? Atleast 10 years older than that!)

It's probably a typo, people. I highly doubt she's 35.

And scorps1027 and Amitabh - you guys are exactly right - she's 45, says this link, behind the picture above.

Varsha Mahender Sabhnani and her husband Mahender Murlidhar Sabhnani

Forgive my ignorance, but did she take both his first and last names?

wonderfully, now we are exporting the abuse of domestic help abroad as well. if they are found guilty, i think the most apropo punishment would be to send them to KSA or UAE and have them serve as servants to another highly abusive and mistreating household for equal time period and they have to hand over whatever salaries they get to the two maids. and then they have to serve as the maids butlers.

If you're going to do unadulterated evil, at least have the good sense not to look like Cruella De Vil!

Forgive my ignorance, but did she take both his first and last names?

I wasn't aware this was done in the north, but in some parts the wife takes the husband's first name as a middle or last name.

The woman has simultaneously one of the most beautiful and most cruel faces I've seen in a long time.

Crap. She's only 35?!?! Not to sound catty, but she looks like a desi version of a 50 year old Cruela DeVille. You would THINK that people that can 'afford' slaves could afford to take care of themselves too. Ehh, what was I thinking, she enslaved people and treated them cruelly. Of course she didn't have the common sense to use sunblock.

You would think all immigrants would have automatic compassion bred inside of them for other immigrants. I guess not.

Nuh-uh. Some of the most horrible cases of abuse I've heard of have involved immigrants to the US abusing folks they brought over from the mother country, and it's often because the folks they brought over are so grateful to them for the chance to be in Amrika/realise that they depend on the employer to be able to work/have a work visa that they keep mum about abuse. In a very much diluted version of this (not to equate it at all!) I've heard from my brother who used to work in the software field that several desi software employers got engineers from desh and paid them much less than the market wage because they had them on H-1s and the employees were dependent on them to stay in the US. Being a migrant doesn't make you an angel or endow you with extraordinary empathy, you can still be a competitive, self-seeking schmuck. And I sort of agree with Razib on this one, these people are replicating relations that would be more normal back home, like expecting a servant to be on the job 24/7 or making them sleep on mats on the floor, or keeping strict limits on their food intake.

The woman has simultaneously one of the most beautiful and most cruel faces I've seen in a long time.

Mrs. Sabhnani looks like Cruella De Ville and the evil queen from Snow White combined.

If you're going to do unadulterated evil, at least have the good sense not to look like Cruella De Vil!

i was struck by the face too. looks like she's right of the casting couch. definitely witchy, dorrian grayish. anjelica huston should play her in the movie.

Not to sound catty, but she looks like a desi version of a 50 year old Cruela DeVille. You would THINK that people that can 'afford' slaves could afford to take care of themselves too. Ehh, what was I thinking, she enslaved people and treated them cruelly. Of course she didn't have the common sense to use sunblock.

I'm struck by the amount of people who commented on the physiognomy of the woman and how her apparent resemblance to a cartoon character must be an accurate reflection of her character and capacity for evil, but were silent on the subject of her husband. With his obligatory uncle-ji mustache, cherubic face, and that just-got-caught-with-his-hand-in-the-cookie-jar pout, there's no way Mr. Sabhnani was perpetrating any unspeakable abuse, right? If Hannah Arednt were still around, I'd be awaiting the publication of her Sabhnani in Muttonville: A Report on the Avuncular Desiness of Evil.

Wouldn't be surprised to find out that she's been a victim of abuse herself.

Word to the third, Seahawks fan. For a fan of an obviously inferior sports franchise, you made a very perceptive point.

With his weak chin and glasses, Mahender looks vaguely like Toht in RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK -- and speaking of which, I wish him a similar fate:

Mahender "Toht" Murlidhar Sabhnani gets some Karmic Retribution

but simply pointing out their Cruella de Ville looks is not evidence of guilt.

there's no way Mr. Sabhnani was perpetrating any unspeakable abuse, right?

Nobody every said anything remotely close to this, most people were just commenting on how she looks like the wicked witch of the west. Nobody is assigning guilt based on appearance.

Anyhow, this brings up another issue of how "servants" are treated in S. Asia. Even when they're not being abused, I think the contempt for which they are treated is often deplorable and leads to these sorts of incidents. It starts with the caste - anytime you allow people to believe they're superior due to birthright there will be problems.

Btw, is it just me or does that lady look wayyy older than 35-years-old!? Atleast 10 years older than that!

The IHT got it wrong I think. Newsday has her at 45 which seems to fit her picture better.

I offer a sincere apology to anyone offended by my comparison of the accused lady to a cartoon character. It was immature and I just typed in my first reactions without much thought! Of course, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Also, someone on this post made a very good point that she may have suffered abuse at some point(s) in her lifetime. Often, abusers are a product of molesting/bullying in childhood, etc. I don't know this accused lady's (or accused man's) background.

I think most people who were treated with extreme cruelty in their younger years don't become abusive themselves. I was treated very horribly by some relatives and a few school mates (like racist taunts, having rocks thrown at me) in my younger years. As I grew older I was determined to never to repeat those actions myself and treat others with respect, etc.

Hi A N N A,

Before I get to the essential point of this comment, I wish to take exception to this:

What quirk of destiny relegates one South Asian woman to endure the beatings of her Arab mistress while halfway around the world...

(emphasis mine), and I hope you will not treat this as political-correctness gone wild. Arabs have been made targets of every possible negative stereotype, without Sepia Mutiny going down that road. What seems to you like something that "can only happen among Arabs" -- understandably so, perhaps, given that happenings in the Gulf/Middle-East get greater coverage, in the U.S. press, than events in South Asia -- is to me something that occurs with depressing regularity in India. I understand that you were making a certain rhetorical point, and the above was an effective way to make it, but I submit that there are other equally effective ways making a rhetorical point. If we are at all interested in greater international understanding, we must curb our temptation to embroider stories with an extra adjective which probably isn't necessary, right ?

As I have written once earlier in an analogous context, ethnicity is the wrong place to be looking at for an explanation of the Sabhnanis' type of behaviour. Rather, in any society (or diaspora thereof) where: a) the (post-)Enlightenment view of the worth of individuals is not widespread; and b) there are people rich enough to afford a retinue of servants, this sort of behaviour will be disproportionately common. Being Arab, or Indian or Somali; or non-Christian, for that matter, has got nothing to do with it! But whatever the sociological explanations may be, I must echo your closing remark. For shame.

It was all over the morning news today and they showed pictures of the maids, I'm unsure where they found the pictures of the maids sleeping on mats on the floor without any covering or pillows etc. They showed pictures of the cuts one suffered. It was painful. They were arraigned yesterday and a bail hearing is set for today. It was pathetic to watch them being hauled in handcuffs out of the precinct. $10 says I will find a connection to them in the next day or two because I know a lot of people who live in Muttontown.

And can we ease up on the 'she looks evil' bit. Evil doesn't sport any specific looks. I mean it's one thing to resort to the 'what she looks like' discussions anytime a woman is in a post but this one is completely irrelevant.

people like this are why I believe in the dealth penalty...

How sick does someone have to be to treat another human being like this? Disgusting!

Unfortunately, this is not a rare occurrence. Way back when I lived in NJ, there was a South Asian couple who had a young girl from Somalia as there indentured servant. She was brought there with promises of a decent wage and an education, none of which she received. An Aunty from my Gurdwara went to this couples house for a get-together and noticed that something was off. She approached the girl, gained her trust, and had her out of there as soon as possible. That aunty was my hero.

re: gb @ #37; i believe anna was pointing out the irony here. keeping the scenarios desi/brown makes the irony stand out that much more, i.e. the abuse is still among "family." The desi/brown victim in one case is the perpetrator in another. Just makes the point that no one is any more superior to anyone else, only the socio-economic circumstances are different.

: You are right. In India such behavior would not seem as outrageous as it seems to be (and in fact is) in the US. The courts should take that into account during sentencing.

al chutiya, not sure what you meant by "the courts should take that into account." regardless of whether it's culturally accepted in one place and less in another (if the alleged abuse did occur), it's atrocious and should be punished as would any other blatant violation of human rights. this is not the same as "public kissing is acceptable in the u.s. and so a kisser should not be punished in india." if these women were subjected to the horrific abuses alleged by the media, then this couple as any other, regardless of geographic location, ought to be punished to fullest extent of the law.

I started to type 3 responses to this story, because it makes me agitated, but decided my responses were far from the question which I wish to ask.

So here it is:

What makes people from S. Asia, feel like they cannot do thier own domestic chores?

I've seen this attitude in many people I know. Mind you, these are not top level executives, these are lower to mid level managers at thier companies. Laundry is too hard. Ironing is too hard. Cooking is too time consuming. I think the majority of American families manage to do all of these tasks and more. Why is it that S. Asian immigrants feel like they *need* help?

When my parents immigrated in the 60's, this was not the prevalent attitude amongst thier friends. They were seeking the American dream and recognized that it had its downsides, but were determined to figure out how to make things work.

I would love to get your insights, because it might help me to respond better. RIght now, I just stare and keep quiet. I do all of my own cooking, laundry, and ironing. I work full-time and have 2 kids too.

Lifelong....My mom raised me as a single parent and she did everything! With cooking, cleaning, and two jobs she still found time to drive me to soccer practice and take me to Gurdwara. I think some "people," regardless of origin, just don't want to work. So they whine about it or can afford to hire a helping hand. I've learned, watching my mom and others, how hard work humbles and pays off. I don't think all South Asians feel like they cannot do their domestic chores.

Lifelong....My mom raised me as a single parent and she did everything! With cooking, cleaning, and two jobs she still found time to drive me to soccer practice and take me to Gurdwara. I think some "people," regardless of origin, just don't want to work. So they whine about it or can afford to hire a helping hand. I've learned, watching my mom and others, how hard work humbles and pays off. I don't think all South Asians feel like they cannot do their domestic chores.

i would rather hire a maid. nothing wrong with that. i would rather focus on work that generates more money than the cost of a maid.

What makes people from S. Asia, feel like they cannot do thier own domestic chores?

i actually asked my grandfather this question when i was in india working with slum women and maids. the idea that servants should have to work everyday boggled my mind. his response was that people have gotten used to it so that's the way it is. it's an attitude i came across a lot among the upper class. people don't see their servants has having a life outside their work. when i suggested they work a 5 or 6 day week, a family friend said "but what would they do on their day off" as if the servants lives revolve around their employers.

hiring people to help run a house is the same as hiring people to help run a business. businesses hire cleaners and dishwashers and cooks and waitstaff in the interest of efficiency. it's how you treat your workers/employees/"help." if people are treated with dignity and respect and compensated fairly for their work, there is no problem in offering them jobs. i work for someone of higher means than myself, as does the majority of the population in this capitalist, consumerist world. most of us work to make someone else wealthier. isn't that what domestic labor allows for?
the difference is that if i'm not happy in my current employment situation, i have the privilege and luxury to leave and find another. unfortunately, this is not the case for everyone.

You are absolutely right, no sense of humor @ #42, when you say this:

re: gb @ #37; i believe anna was pointing out the irony here. keeping the scenarios desi/brown makes the irony stand out that much more, i.e. the abuse is still among "family."

and I do appreciate the irony. But please do refer to the italicised line in #37. I was expressing my trepidation at the increasing acts of drive-by defamation of Arabs that one sees in the media. Please note, everybody: I'm not saying that A N N A, or Sepia Mutiny, are drive-by defamers. What I'm saying, however, is that one expects Sepia Mutiny not to repeat the sins of the run-of-the-mill media.

It is true that horrific acts of domestic-servant abuse take place in some of the Gulf states. But this is not uniquely Arab behaviour. Given the crisis of confidence that many, many Arabs - who may be our friend and neighbours - have been made to experience (*), I am just expressing the wish that Sepia Mutiny would be more empathetic. (Full disclosure: I'm not Arab; I'm Indian.)

(*) And please don't say that acts of violence by Arabs have no moral isomorphs among acts of violence being committed here and now by other ethnic groups.

I'm reading the book FAST FOOD NATION, which explains that many American families now largely eat out... and how fast-food chains do most of the "cooking" (if you can call it that).

For those who prefer home-cooked meals to McDonald's, but STILL think cooking is "for servants", there is good news: the Japanese are hard at work creating humanoid service robots that will clean, cook and look after us.

(But what if the robots rebel against being the abused "servant caste"? ;-))

Puliogre in the USA wrote:

i would rather hire a maid. nothing wrong with that. i would rather focus on work that generates more money than the cost of a maid.

I think that would be fine, if you can afford and pay the going rate for service, which last time I checked was $700/week net for a household manager. (One of my close friends left her career in software development to become a household manager. She said it was far more lucrative) That assumes that you provide living quarters (separate bdrm, and bath at a minimum), and a strict 40-hr. work week with paid holidays and perks (gym membership, spa services, etc.) If you can afford that, than more power to you.

Gudia, your mom and my mom would have been *great* friends. Even though mom is in her 70's now, she cannot sit still. When she watches her soaps in the evenings, she has to chop veggies or iron clothes. I just find that the attitude that "domestic work is beneath me" attitude is more prevalent among newer immigrants or people who have never really assimilated into the larger culture.

Asha, thanks for your insights.

(But what if the robots rebel against being the abused "servant caste"? ;-))

The 3 Laws of Robotics are supposed to prevent that from happening. If they fail, then it is Judgement Day... ;-)

With his obligatory uncle-ji mustache, cherubic face, and that just-got-caught-with-his-hand-in-the-cookie-jar pout, there's no way Mr. Sabhnani was perpetrating any unspeakable abuse, right? If Hannah Arednt were still around, I'd be awaiting the publication of her Sabhnani in Muttonville: A Report on the Avuncular Desiness of Evil.

True, also some newspapers are reporting that Mrs. Sabhani was the perpetrator of the violence, I'm sure Mr. Sabhani was no angel considering that he must have witnessed the entire ordeal and done nothing. As usual, the Daily Post takes it to the limit, splashing a picture of Mrs. Sabhani on the cover with the headline "CRUELLA." (check it out: http://www.gothamist.com/2007/05/16/couple_charged.php) I guess no one could think of an evil man character to connect the man to.

Wow! I just got coffee from the Dunkin Donuts mentioned in that article.

(But what if the robots rebel against being the abused "servant caste"? ;-))

*cough*

As usual, the Daily Post takes it to the limit, splashing a picture of Mrs. Sabhani on the cover with the headline "CRUELLA." (check it out: http://www.gothamist.com/2007/05/16/couple_charged.php) I guess no one could think of an evil man character to connect the man to.

correction: the new york post.

some newspapers are reporting that Mrs. Sabhani was the perpetrator of the violence, I'm sure Mr. Sabhani was no angel considering that he must have witnessed the entire ordeal and done nothing

witnessing it and doing nothing to stop it makes him a willing accomplice. besides, he had two powerless, beaten, abused women at his disposal, twenty-four-seven. all kinds of opportunities for him to take advantage of his position of power.

What makes people from S. Asia, feel like they cannot do thier own domestic chores?

I've seen this attitude in many people I know. Mind you, these are not top level executives, these are lower to mid level managers at thier companies. Laundry is too hard. Ironing is too hard. Cooking is too time consuming. I think the majority of American families manage to do all of these tasks and more. Why is it that S. Asian immigrants feel like they *need* help?

I don't really see it as an issue of 'being from south Asia' and 'needing help with domestic chores' as mutually exclusive. I find the time that is freed up with getting time consuming things done like cleaning the house and getting the laundry done; invaluable. As do so many others I know. I can do it myself, hell I have been doing it myself but now that I can afford it I don't want to. That means gaining a Saturday to do what I want not sit for 3 hours in a laundry room. It has nothing to do with "needing help: and everything to do with "needing time to do other things".

With all due respect more power to you that you have 2 kids and have a fulltime job and get everything done. Not everyone is that good at it. I've seen girlfriends who have wonderfully raised children, who are excellent cooks but their houses look like a disaster zone and girlfriends who have well taken care of children and spotless houses but they devote all their time to tending to family events with the free time. To each their own. I wouldn't judge someone so quickly and make it a South Asian thing. Don't knock it till you try it :-)

......(But what if the robots rebel against being the abused "servant caste"? ;-))

The 3 Laws of Robotics are supposed to prevent that from happening. If they fail, then it is Judgement Day... ;-)

Vikram: I thought of exactly the same thing, so I fear that makes me a big nerd. It's not high art, but the movie version of "I, Robot" with Will Smith actually had very entertaining moments.

Two things I find most interesting in this thread:

The comment that a lot of these cases of domestic slavery cases seem to involve immigrants and/or expats who are simply recreating social relations that would be totally conventional in their nation of origin. Is there anyone else who thinks that if a statement like that were printed in the mainstream media, it could be considered borderline (or overtly) racist (i.e., "those people can't help it, they were raised to think treating their maids like that...")? We're not just talking about making househelp sleep on mats and feeding them meager portions of rice and dal; as #21 mentioned, scalding with water isn't exactly 'conventional' in any cultural context!

The idea that some people (S. Asian immigrants in particular) "don't want to work" or do domestic chores themselves: I think there are a variety of attitudes about this that aren't necessarily related to 'laziness.' I think we all know several middle-aged, middle-class white women (even single and childless, yaar) who have someone come in to clean, while others, more affluent may do it all themselves. I think my grandmother would be surprised or disapprove if she knew that I'm THRILLED to pay $2/shirt to have someone else launder and iron them (a reason today's youth Can't! Save! Any! Money!). Echoing Puliogre: It's not worth my precious time to spend it on the frustrating task of ironing. However, I do all my own cleaning, etc. I think there are habits that may be somewhat culturally ingrained, and may be more prevalent among certain Asians, but certainly not limited to them. As we know, there are tasks/chores "one wouldn't dream of doing oneself" when in certain countries. In the absence of abuse, having various types of househelp is obviously a major part of the informal economy in many developing countries (developed ones as well, but perhaps less so than in countries where work opportunities in the formal economy are much more limited).

While our outrage here is fully justified if all the facts are indeed as presented - I cannot help noticing that this story falls into a 'genre' of news stories with common elements: overzealous and publicity-seeking prosecutors, a sensationalist media outlet, a prima-facie embroidered story designed both to assist sensationalization and to tug at the jury's heart strings (Running up-and-down stairs and eating hot peppers as punishment? Sure.), and importantly, - an otherizable ethnic identity for the alleged perpetrators, for they could do anything. One can fairly ask whether there is any prosecutorial bias in such cases.

People have been asking how South Asians think they cannot do their own domestic chores. The tradition of full-time domestic help for middle class households owes considerably to the tradition that British and other colonials in India established, employing such help. Even low level bureaucrats used to have several 'servants'. Even today, Western (including US) diplomats and other expatriates in India do employ such help, and often bring them over when they return stateside. US Navy officers employ Filipino 'batmen' when serving in the Far East, and regularly bring them over when they return. I really don't think they pay them $65K/yr with gym, health and spa benefits, so they can then take home $700/week net. So, whether it is in India, or in the US, everybody who reaches a certain 'station' feels 'entitled' to cheap domestic help, and will pay as little as they can get away with. That bit of context is essential.

Somebody wisely observed earlier in the thread that everyone is working to make someone else wealthy; and that many people on H-1Bs also face similar situations, where they are beholden to employers, and unable to escape a patently exploitative situation, and are virtual slaves. That bit of context is also useful.

The comment that

a lot of these cases of domestic slavery cases seem to involve immigrants and/or expats who are simply recreating social relations that would be totally conventional in their nation of origin

. Is there anyone else who thinks that if a statement like that were printed in the mainstream media, it could be considered borderline (or overtly) racist (i.e., "those people can't help it, they were raised to think treating their maids like that...")?

Excellent point.

some newspapers are reporting that Mrs. Sabhani was the perpetrator of the violence, I'm sure Mr. Sabhani was no angel considering that he must have witnessed the entire ordeal and done nothing

witnessing it and doing nothing to stop it makes him a willing accomplice. besides, he had two powerless, beaten, abused women at his disposal, twenty-four-seven. all kinds of opportunities for him to take advantage of his position of power.

yes, i hope i didn't come off as apologizing for the husband, i think he's as much to blame as the wife and think it's sad that the media attention seems to be focused squarely on the "Cruella" aspect of the case.

"And can we ease up on the 'she looks evil' bit. Evil doesn't sport any specific looks."

JOAT I have to disagree there are most definitely evil looking people out there....hard to know if such folks are ACTUALLY evil..but I think dabbling in dark things over a lifetime takes its toll and can be seen on the face......just like a lifetime of smoking or drinking..(uh-oh!)

Since, apparently, I wasn't first with the Cruella De Vil comparison (damn you, gm #13!), I call dibs on the Desi John Bolton. And the phrase The Suburbanality of Evil.

al chutiya, not sure what you meant by "the courts should take that into account." regardless of whether it's culturally accepted in one place and less in another (if the alleged abuse did occur), it's atrocious and should be punished as would any other blatant violation of human rights. this is not the same as "public kissing is acceptable in the u.s. and so a kisser should not be punished in india." if these women were subjected to the horrific abuses alleged by the media, then this couple as any other, regardless of geographic location, ought to be punished to fullest extent of the law.

The prosecutors and the judges do and should take into account 'cultural differences'. If a Somali refugee fresh off the plane violently disciplines her child, she should not be given the same sentence that you would give to a mother who was born and raised in America. It would be unfair to do so because it would not take into account the fact that the Somali refugee was unaware of western child abuse laws, such practice is common in Somalia etc.
These are all mitigating factors which should be taken into account during the sentencing stage.

Personally, I think these employers are being framed. To set the record straight, these folks are Indian. From the north part in an area that once existed toward the north of Punjab called Sind. Which is now part of current day Pakistan. Mind you, they are not Pakistani, they are Indian hindus.

I know because I come from the same sect. Now there are alot of folks from this region whom are successful whom have migrated to the US, Europe, and othe parts of Asia - whom have domestic workers. They come to work on contract, and a majority of them are treated humanely well. (with proper accomodations, plenty of nourishment, and regular time off.)

I know a few people whom have Indonesian domestic helpers, and they work for a period and are sent back to indonesia when their contract is up. They are paid significantly more than what they would earn in their native country, and their earnings are sent back to Indonesia to take care of their families. A majority of these domestic helpers are exposed to the wonders of the world by serving these people of affluence - experiences that they would have never have had being back in Indonesia. Case in point, I remember a family that took their helper to Las Vegas, and while there was treated her just like one of the family, while experiencing the best resturants, accomodations, etc. There were tears in the eyes of the Indonesian helper because she always dreamed of seeing Las Vegas, and she got her chance, and that too finally being treately with the same amenities as that of her employers. Do note, many of these domestic helpers are treated well, and respectfully. Many of which are considered part of the family, a kin to a live in nanny. They travel with the family and go everywhere.

This particular story is an isolated case, where I think somehow these Indonesian ladies may have concocted a plan to frame their employers. Im not saying that this is 100% the case, but you have to look at both sides before you make a judgement.

The prosecutors and the judges do and should take into account 'cultural differences'.

These people are Naturalized Citizens, who are biz people, who do well to live in Muttontown, all this leads me to a very strong conclusion that they aren’t fresh off the boat. I don’t think they should be judged by anything other than the mores and laws of the land they have been living in.

"A majority of these domestic helpers are exposed to the wonders of the world"

How nice it must be for them....

"This particular story is an isolated case"

And you know this how?

It would be unfair to do so because it would not take into account the fact that the Somali refugee was unaware of western child abuse laws

But ignorance of the law is no excuse/defense. I don't think it's unfair at all. The local Somali community where I live routinely practises female castration. Should this be condoned (or left unprosecuted) because of cultural differences?

OMG, yes, he IS the desi John Bolton! Good call!

As for how representative this case might be, I think in their debate on Slate on the Nanny Wars, Ehrenreich, Flanagan and Mosle mentioned that about 80% of nannies in the US are estimated to be illegal and/or not paid social security etc according to the law. That sounds awfully high to me but who knows. Anyway, I'm sure there are lots of people who are perfectly good employers (just as there are back in desh) but the potential for abuse is pretty high.

Thanks JOAT, chachaji, and others who pointed out that it's not just South Asians and that people are entitled to a little help if you can afford it. It's just that I have observed this behavior in South Asians.

For others who responded that they know people who have help come on "contract" from Indonesia, or bring back "batmen" from the Philipines, do you know what kind of visa these domestic workers come on? Just curious, because I don't know that there is a way to do this legally.

These people are Naturalized Citizens, who are biz people, who do well to live in Muttontown, all this leads me to a very strong conclusion that they aren’t fresh off the boat. I don’t think they should be judged by anything other than the mores and laws of the land they have been living in.

In this case, I agree with you.

But ignorance of the law is no excuse/defense. I don't think it's unfair at all. The local Somali community where I live routinely practises female castration. Should this be condoned (or left unprosecuted) because of cultural differences?

If you believe that the sole purpose of punishment is to satiate your retributist rage, then taking cultural differences into account will probably not make sense to you.

If you believe that the sole purpose of punishment is to satiate your retributist rage, then taking cultural differences into account will probably not make sense to you.

This isn't a discussion about theories of punishment, so I'll leave that alone, especially since you have no iddea what I believe, one way or the other.

I'm just saying that I don't see where cultural differences are relevant in cases like this. It is the responsibility of the government (through the judicial system) to protect those who cannot protect themselves. And if that means a few individuals from cultures that condone female castration, domestic violence, etc. end up being incarcerated, it's a small price to pay. At least locally, incarceration also appears to have had some educational effect on the Somali community.

You are right. In India such behavior would not seem as outrageous as it seems to be (and in fact is) in the US. The courts should take that into account during sentencing.

Excuse me, if some society is not taking care of the destitute there; then why should west consider it. I think these people made into example so other naives who thinks they are still in South Asia or Middle East will learn. What next bounded labor since its OK to keep one back home.

then taking cultural differences into account will probably not make sense to you.

Abuse has no culture; we should popularize this issue more so people back home can learn to treat other humans with dignity, which is every human's right not a privilege.

Hema,

I can hear you.

My mind baffles at ignorants- who knows every little detail of THEIR rights in the west but knows NOTHING about the others. So much convenient for them.

For Al_Chutiya_for_debauchery,

I would like to add. Do you know Honor killing is Ok in some cultures too and even it's respected there.

The prosecutors and the judges do and should take into account 'cultural differences'.

humiliation, abuse, devaluing of human life are punishable by law everywhere, regardless of whether certain degrees are deemed acceptable in one place and not another. i'm not a lawyer, nor am i familiar with the legalities surrounding the prosecution of a case such as this. i do know that though my parents grew up in india where beating your kids is the norm, when they came here, right away they knew enough not to beat us in public even if they weren't familiar with the laws. when you're taking a person's humanity away, you know you're doing it. no matter where you are or who says it's okay.

re: Vik @ #65.
please.

Thanks JOAT, chachaji, and others who pointed out that it's not just South Asians and that people are entitled to a little help if you can afford it.

Actually, what I said was people 'feel' entitled to it, and will pay as little as they can get away with. Sometimes that's nothing.

And as far as paying as little as they can get away with, virtually all employers are converging to this standard; the old days of the 'efficiency wage' where people were paid more than the 'market-clearing' wage, so that they would work 'hard and smart' and 'reduce labor turnover' are rapidly becoming history, in a 'globalizing' world.

See their daughter's page on Facebook Pooja Sabhnani. Sveral pics of her with her parents. I would ask her why she did nothing to help these poor maids. She had to have known.

Their daughter is 22 so the mom is unlikely to be 35 unless she is her step-mom.

The women legally arrived…in 2002; (their employers) then confiscated their passports and refused to let them leave their home, authorities said. Domestic slavery? Nightmarish abuse of Sri Lankan maids, at the hands of Arab employers? That’s what I thought. I was only half right (Thanks, KXB).

Why did you jump to the conclusion that the abuse was at the hands of Arabs? What do Arabs have anything to do with anything in this story?

Their daughter is 22 so the mom is unlikely to be 35 unless she is her step-mom.

If you read through the comments, you'll see that issue was cleared up already.

Why did you jump to the conclusion that the abuse was at the hands of Arabs? What do Arabs have anything to do with anything in this story?

I think the point was to highlight how incorrect the "This doesn't happen in our community"-delusion is...plenty of brown people sanctimoniously condemn everyone else for their inferior morality, even as we are imperfect. Besides the posts which were linked to DID report abuse of South Asian maids by their Arab employers.

RJ, I really don't think it's appropriate to bring folks' private lives into this. I know facebook is not uber-private, but still, inappropriate.

Vik, are you smoking crack?

kusala - YES!

To set the record straight, these folks are Indian. From the north part in an area that once existed toward the north of Punjab called Sind. Which is now part of current day Pakistan. Mind you, they are not Pakistani, they are Indian hindus.

Sindh still exists. It's a province in Pakistan and the language is Sindhi. Karachi is in Sindh (although ethnic Sindhis are a small minority in the city itself, it's mostly Urdu-speakers from India, with Pathans a distant second). Sindh had a large Hindu population (around 20%) before Partition. Unlike Punjab, which was divided between India and Pakistan, the entire province of Sindh went to Pakistan, since the whole place had a muslim majority (except, I believe, Karachi city might have been Hindu majority, as was the Thar Parkar district, which still has a lot of Hindus left). The Hindus (who formed the Sindhi middle-class and the intelligentsia) fled in 1947, and Sindhi Hindus are now distributed worldwide, with large enclaves in Indonesia, Hong Kong, Singapore, other Asian countries, the Arab World, Europe, and the Caribbean. And of course the USA, UK, etc. For some reason their surnames seem to almost always end in 'ani'...like Govani, Sabhnani, Butani, Advani, Kripalani, Bhojwani, Lalwani, etc. Trust me, that's just a small sample of names, the list could go on. Anyway, in India they are big in Mumbai and Pune. In Pakistan, the Muslim Sindhis, who in 1947 were mostly illiterate farmers, were largely unable to withstand the onslaught of the educated, Urdu-speakers from India, who came to eventually dominate the region. Gradually they asserted their cultural, political, and linguistic rights, and have done fairly well with that.

This has little to do with the topic per se, (except maybe the Indonesia connection) but can give some background on Sindhis for those who don't know.

Gradually they asserted their cultural, political, and linguistic rights, and have done fairly well with that.

Meaning, the Muslim Sindhis have done that.

Camille

RJ, I really don't think it's appropriate to bring folks' private lives into this. I know facebook is not uber-private, but still, inappropriate.

You Kidding me Camille? Her daughter lived in the house. If I see her or her parents I will spit on them. SHAME!

Glass houses:"A majority of these domestic helpers are exposed to the wonders of the world"

How nice it must be for them....

"This particular story is an isolated case"

And you know this how?

I know this because a majority of the people I know have domestic helpers, in the US, Europe and all across Asia. And almost every Sindhi-Indian household in China,Phillipines, Indonesia, Singapore, Japan, Thailand, has at least 1 domestic helper, if not more. And while I cant speak for every domestic, you dont hear stories like this, because most, if not all of them are treated well.

Female circumcision, Hema, not castration. It's about taking away the pleasure, not the functionality.

The woman has simultaneously one of the most beautiful and most cruel faces I've seen in a long time.

I dont know about beautiful or cruel, but that certainly is one of the most striking portraits I have ever seen.

I think these employers are being framed..........I think somehow these Indonesian ladies may have concocted a plan to frame their employers.

Whats more likely is that your sindhi chauvinism is clouding your thinking.

these folks are Indian. From the north part in an area that once existed toward the north of Punjab called Sind. Which is now part of current day Pakistan.

FYI, Sind still exists, and it exists as always toward the south of Punjab.

To put words in Vik's mouth, it's hard out there for a pimp-lani. You know, noblesse oblige and all that, old chap.

DESI JOHN BOLTON
DESI JOHN BOLTON
DESI JOHN BOLTON

To all who have voiced the idea of "cultural differences" mitigating circumstances, should Muslim men be given lighter sentences for killing their daughters/sisters for "honor" like in Jordan or Pakistan? Should college kids here from Netherlands be given lesser sentences for smoking weed than American college kids? There is no end in sight. Suffice it to say, it is a despicable idea to mitigate sentences for "cultural reasons,".

I'm however, willing to listen to how (if at all) you would draw a line sensible enough so that it may be taken into account.

81 Pondatti.

Simply highlighting and shouting this one case from the rooftops does not even begin to equal the systematic horrible abuse of not just SOUTH ASian but East Asian maids in Arab households at least in Saudi Arabia. When the Saudi man was prosecuted for holding the Indonesian girl in servitude in Colorado, the man said that the country was prosecuting "these basic Muslim behaviours" and complained of discrimination and anti-Muslim behavior. So it is completely irrelevant to simply say OH IT HAPPENS IN ALL COMMUNITIES, cos the magnitude and the theoretical/emotional reasoning/justification that is attached within certain cultures is manifestly completely different.

Alot of you are quick to judge these people. We don't know the facts and the way the pictures of this woman were taken, she looked evil. They may have done what the accussed say, or it may be a way to get money out of the couple and maybe the sympathy of immigration to get permenant residence.

Hear both sides of the stories. What the comments do indicate is alot of you coconuts (brown on the outside, white on the inside, with water in the skull) are quick to condemn a fellow desi but probably give others the benefit of the doubt. One day one of you may get arrested and thanks to the bias already out there against us as being cruel, fundementalists brown folks you might get double screwed.

Hey thanks for explaining the coconut metaphor, we could never have figured it out on our own.

Duryadhan, you forgot to mention hairy on the outside too.

You're welcome.

I'm still looking for an answer to my question. What kind of visa do these workers come to the US on? Diplomats and employees of organizations like World Bank and IMF are allowed to bring domestic workers on a specific visa category, but I don't think there is one for private citizens. My hunch is that they were brought here on a tourist or some other valid visa category and then overstayed.

Vik, since you know people who have contract domestic workers, may you could enlighten us on what visa category was used for them.

nypost

"The feds are probing whether a millionaire couple accused of enslaving and torturing two Indonesian women at their ritzy Long Island home were aided by their four kids - including their eldest, shopaholic daughter, who says her favorite movies include "Human Trafficking," a gritty sex-slave drama.

Pooja Sabhnani, 22, her sisters, Tina, 20, and Dakshina, 19, and her brother, Rahul, 17, the children of Varsha Sabhnani and her husband, Mahender, are under investigation in the victims' barbaric, five-year ordeal in which they were beaten, tortured, starved and forced to work 21 hours a day, a law-enforcement source told The Post.

Pooja, a 2006 graduate of the Parsons School of Design who works for her parents designing packaging for their lines of trendy, international perfumes, says on her Friendster.com Web site that her favorite movies include "Human Trafficking," a two-part miniseries that aired on the Lifetime cable channel in October 2005.

The harrowing drama, starring Mira Sorvino and Donald Sutherland, reveals the brutal torture of young women kidnapped, drugged, raped and sold into sex slavery.

On her Web site, Pooja says her other favorite movies include the horror film "The Shining" and "The Transporter," a flick about slavery in which an Asian girl is trussed up in a bag and stuck in a car trunk."

Lifelong, IIRC if you work for the US military or state dept and are returning to the US from an overseas posting you are allowed to sponsor and bring back with you one domestic worker. Not sure exactly what the visa status is but I think it's peculiar to diplomats

On her Web site, Pooja says her other favorite movies include the horror film "The Shining" and "The Transporter," a flick about slavery in which an Asian girl is trussed up in a bag and stuck in a car trunk."

Oh my god, Prema, does she believe that the blood gets off on the second floor?

Judging her by the movies she likes is as bad as judging Fred Thompson by his playing a white supremacist in a movie. I like Sunset Boulevard. Does that mean I have a greater predilection to becoming a gigolo who takes advantage of delusional old actresses?

Does that mean I have a greater predilection to becoming a gigolo who takes advantage of delusional old actresses?

I dont know about you....but i do ;-)

A friend said Mahender and his son, Rahul - who attends Syosset HS - regularly worship at the Guy Gobind Singh Sikh Center in Plainview. "The high school is in shock," the friend said. "Teachers can't believe it."

This is another thing about Sindhi Hindus...they have a unique version of Hinduism, with a lot of Sikh influences (especially veneration of Guru Nanak, some (limited) use of the Gurmukhi script, often having weddings in gurdwaras, etc.), as well as some unique Sindhi deities (Jhoole Lal for example), and sufi influences as well.

And, they really know how to party.

Jhoole Lal

Thats also the name of a great song by Nusrat Fateh Ali.

Female circumcision, Hema, not castration. It's about taking away the pleasure, not the functionality.

Maybe, but locally, the term used for the practice among Somalis is "castration". Probably packs a bigger emotional whallop in court than circumcision.

Female circumcision, Hema, not castration. It's about taking away the pleasure, not the functionality

this is not true. not to get off topic, but castration is also accurate as clitoridectomies, excisions, and infibulation operations remove the clitoris entirely, thus effectively taking away its functionality.

Crap. She's only 35?!?! Not to sound catty, but she looks like a desi version of a 50 year old Cruela DeVille.

The Post ran a story describing her as exactly that. I actually had the same reaction re: her age, but being a tyrant and infusing your every fiber with hatred can be, oh so taxing on the skin. But I agree the post article was stretching by damning Pooja with a friendster profile. Her gene's are damning enough, I hope the bitch and various bitch, jr's. gets theirs.

"while I cant speak for every domestic"

exactly Vik...but yet you do it anyways...

glass houses, I can speak for every domestic. And I have it on authority that there is nothing more they would do rather than serve. All you need to do is to give them some old rag or some such thing, and they and their descendants are yours for ever.

Just be careful you don't give them socks, Rahul.

Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? Intellectual honesty please.

Rahul props on reminding us of the plight of the house elves....we need more Dobbys out there fo sho' breaking the rules!

The feds are probing whether a millionaire couple accused of enslaving and torturing two Indonesian women at their ritzy Long Island home were aided by their four kids - including their eldest, shopaholic daughter...

The family that preys together stays together...

The idea that their punishment should be lenient due to some sort of cultural understanding is absurd on two counts.

First, in America, equality before the law for all, while not practiced perfectly, is a strong cultural value. So, we show respect to one foreign value (it's ok to beat the servants) while disrespecting the value of 300 million Americans in their own country? That makes no sense. The fact that they emigrated to America should prove they preferred the American system, they chose it, they rejected the value system of their homeland, and thus the American system, in it's entirety, should then be used to judge them.

Second, the more important reason: where, exactly, is slavery considered "okay"? I