May 18, 2007
Mosque Attacked in HyderabadNews
A “crude” bomb exploded at the 17th century-era Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad during Friday prayers, killing five and seriously injuring at least 25 others (Thanks, Red Snapper and Tamasha):
Minutes after the blast, Muslims angered by what they said was a lack of police protection began chanting slogans — a situation that quickly devolved into mobs throwing stones at police, who responded with baton charges and tear gas.
Some reports I’ve read state that the tear gas was used to clear the area, to help ambulances rush to and from the scene.
The bombing and ensuing clash between worshippers and police raised fears of wider Hindu-Muslim violence in the city, which has long been plagued by communal tensions and occasional spasms of religious bloodletting.
Many of those injured in the explosion at the 17th-century Mecca Masjid were severely wounded, and the city’s police chief, Balwinder Singh, warned the death toll could rise.
Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy, the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh state, where Hyderabad is located, appealed for calm between Hindus and Muslims.
Reddy called the bombing, which killed at least five people and wounded 25, an act of ”intentional sabotage on the peace and tranquility in the country.” [NYT]
Mecca Masjid, so named because some of its bricks were brought from that holy city, took 8000 masons almost eight decades to complete; it is the largest mosque in Hyderabad.
Developing…
anna on May 18, 2007 08:43 AM in News, Religion, Short · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
This is pissing off...
Really pissing off. All Hyderabadi readers, keep safe. Please share any eye-witness.
This really sucks.
This is terrible. Even with its demographic breakdown and pretty stark cultural differences, Hyderabad has remained relatively free of serious communal clashes. Hope this does not blow up.
nothing will happen
My Dad says 19 have died and many more injured. My Dad and sister had trouble getting home. (Mobs stopping vehicles on the road, etc.)
I pray for all who have lost their lives. Everyone with family in Hyd please call and make sure they are safe.
B.Raman's analysis on Rediff - probably the most accurate one...
M. Nam
I have always been proud of my city's multi-cultural history. From being Bhagyanagar to being called Hyderabad, Birla Mandir and Mecca masjid, Bonala pandaga and Eid. I hope we don't give up the exact thing (the communal harmony) that makes us Hyderabadis. It hurts me to think there could be a possiblity of more bloodshed.
MoorNam (#5), Thanks for the link. It was quite informative.
Hyderabad had its share of communal violence, but not in the scale of Delhi, Bombay or Gujarat. Its been largely peaceful for the last decade or so, I hope its not going to get worse.
To quote Chief Minister Reddy:
"Some inputs were coming in the last two or two-and- half months that some elements were trying to disturb peace. All steps were taken. But still such things do happen."
It baffles me how incompetent our government is. *sigh*
Wow. This is terrible. I hope any Hyderabadi SM'ers are ok.
It baffles me how incompetent our government is. *sigh*
That may generally be true, but IMO, it's not really fair in this case. Such things do still happen, even when the government takes all the necessary precautions.
Don't jump to conclusions so soon. They've done their part.
B.Raman's analysis on Rediff - probably the most accurate one...
Preposterous nonsense. Also blaming everything on Pakistan is getting lame. I am sure the damn Pakis have also been complicit in committing periodic massacres in Delhi 84, Bombay 93 and Gujarat 02.
I think the ISI was behind my rotten NFL Fantasy Football season last year.
"I hope any Hyderabadi SM'ers are ok".
Second that.
I pray for the souls that are lost, family and countless number of people effected.
Chutiya #12
Not sure why you call the Rediff analysis "preposterous nonsense"
Do you have any knowledge that lead you to that insightful conclusion (other than your "belief" that ISI are not involved, the same way a few others want to believe that ISI are)?
:(
Heartfelt sympathy for Hyderabadis, and a wish that this does not rip folks further apart.
B. Raman is often pretty good, his article was quite insightful and didn't blame any individual or party...
My salaams to all in Hyderabad, I can only imagine the anguish and the anxiety...
I cant believe this. I just got back from Hyderabad last weekend, it was so nice when I was there, there were absolutely no religious tensions whatsover. Incidents like this are deliberate attempts by some sick political elements with some ulterior motives such as either toppling the current ruling goverment or gaining some political ground using religion as pretext. I was able to freely go to just any part of the city while I was there, but incidents like this would take away that freedom, makes you want to be aware of where you are going and watch out for your safety. I remember not being able to go out in my own neighbourhood during the 93 riots which is otherwise very peaceful.
if theres anything preposterous, its you so easily dismissing what a highly respected journalist/former Indian intelligence officer has to say
It's too early for any of this analysis. Whomever is to blame, the government must not allow any repeat of a Gujurat type situation. For those who are beyond appeals to compassion/basic human decency I hope they realize that any resulting communal conflict is very, very bad for business
Condolences to Hydrabadis...
Rediff has an article linking this attack with others attacks on muslims in the last two years in India.
Anyone know if any of them been solved?
What is the % of muslim and Hindu's in Hyderbad, and is there any chance that this will turn into what want on in Gujarat in 2002.
As for, Al Chutyia I don't think you can blame the ISI for you rotten fantasy football season last year. Maybe you need to draft better. If you need any advice don't be afraid to ask.
This is heartbreaking. My thoughts are with anyone who has family near by and for everyone who lives or is visiting there at this time.
22. clueless
I would not know about the % of Muslims in Hyderabad but this in no way will end up like Gujarat. Gujarat was 100% state sponspored terrorism. I am from coastal Andhra and have lived in Hyderabad. My guess for the city's Hindu:Muslim ratio is 60:40. The majority of Muslims live in the old city. Hyderabad is a rather laidback city. Even though the once in a decade riot is pretty much the norm, I havent seen people from either side harbor illwill. The south generally had better relations with the muslims. I guess that is because we didnt have to face the initial brunt of the muslim invasion. the muslim dynasties in the south already had lived among Hindus for centuries before moving soutn.
Even though i hate to subscribe to the foreign hand ISI bogeyman, it could be the case. Hell they did it to their own countreymen in the Samjhauta train attack. Actually interesting question is if extreme right winger Hindu groups have ever been arrested for such attacks on Masjids?(not talking about 1992 Babri Massjid here)
As for, Al Chutyia I don't think you can blame the ISI for you rotten fantasy football season last year. Maybe you need to draft better. If you need any advice don't be afraid to ask.
I do need to draft better!
"B.Raman's analysis on Rediff - probably the most accurate one..."
Wow!!!
I see some cannot wait one second to blaime the Muslims for it.
Sheesh...
ACD,
in committing periodic massacres in Delhi 84, Bombay 93 and Gujarat 02.
Re: Periodic
The definition of periodic is "appearing or occurring at intervals"
Is Delhi, Bombay, Gujarat periodic in religious violence? - the answer is No
Is India as a whole? - the answer is roughly Yes.
Re: ISI
It is quite ironic that you bring a passioned plea for presumed innocence for ISI in the same comment with Bombay 93 riots mentioned. It has been clearly established that ISI through Bombay Mafia played active role in the riots. Some of the Bombay Mafia live in Pakistan after the riots to avoid jail time.
One of them (I think Dawood Ibrahim's) daughter married Javed Miandad (leading cricketer of Pakistan) with much fan fare. These Bombay mafia are royalty in Pakistan elite.
I see your reason for protesting in regards making a bogey man but you are going other extreme in giving ISI clean ticket where they have been proved guilty openly.
Can you please tell me what is the mission (or reason for existence) of ISI? We can go from there.
Yes, I wouldn't rule it out either. There has been some tension between Hindus and Muslims in Hyderabad over a long period, but this appears to be a qualitatively new development. The Hindu is now reporting 12 killed and 50 injured, so this is getting quite serious.
And, while the initial bomb injured lots of people, a riot started immediately afterward, even before the injured had been evacuated, and that injured more people. And then, to disperse that riot, the police opened fire, which resulted in even more injured. All this is playing out exactly as if it was an exercise in an anarchist textbook.
That the bomb itself seems to have been triggered by a cellphone further tends to point toward ISI. The main reason they have been targeting Bangalore and Hyderabad is, of course, because of the many ICT companies in both cities - hoping for a spiralling effect on employee safety and investor climate, and eventually on the larger Indian economy.
I hope it all calms down quickly, though with the loss of life and limb that we've had already, that may be a lot to expect. Still, one can hope and pray.
Correction: married Javed Miandad's (leading cricketer of Pakistan) son
Thats sad, now they are trying to create rift among muslims in India. And its just so stupid that government doesn't understand what is at stake and stays lax in security even after all the warnings. "These things do happen" is no excuse when you have prior warnings and also the experience in how incidences like these can quickly escalate. Hopefully things will be quickly controlled.
Actually they have been! There is no excuse for what happened afterwards and is a matter of shame, but all those incidences DID have a pakistani hand.We did burn overselves, but it was pakistan in all those occasion which doused us with gasoline and gladly provided the matches.If you refuse to belive that, then that't preposterous! Of course if you get most of your news from western media, then its not your fault.
Flame away!
The 1993 attack and its aftermath was captured on this hindi movie, Black Friday. Its a must watch for anyone interested in subcontinent political affairs.
I was struck by how close the movie seemed to Munich . But Black Friday is a 2004 movie based on actual events, its not a usual hollywood ripoff.
ACD,
in committing periodic massacres in Delhi 84, Bombay 93 and Gujarat 02.
Re: Periodic
The definition of periodic is "appearing or occurring at intervals"
Is Delhi, Bombay, Gujarat periodic in religious violence? - the answer is No
Is India as a whole? - the answer is roughly Yes.
I did not suggest that Delhi, Bombay, Gujarat are engaging in periodic religious violence. India as a whole has been engaging in periodic violence. Its just not Delhi, Bombay and Gujarat. Its also Bhagalpur in Bihar, Meerut/Maliana in UP and Surat in Gujarat and there are others as well. I think having 6 major secretarian riots in 30 years in which state governments were complicit at varying degrees is very troubling.
It is quite ironic that you bring a passioned plea for presumed innocence for ISI in the same comment with Bombay 93 riots mentioned. It has been clearly established that ISI through Bombay Mafia played active role in the riots. Some of the Bombay Mafia live in Pakistan after the riots to avoid jail time.
One of them (I think Dawood Ibrahim's) daughter married Javed Miandad (leading cricketer of Pakistan) with much fan fare. These Bombay mafia are royalty in Pakistan elite.
I see your reason for protesting in regards making a bogey man but you are going other extreme in giving ISI clean ticket where they have been proved guilty openly.
Can you please tell me what is the mission (or reason for existence) of ISI? We can go from there.
I am neither making a passioned plea nor giving ISI a clean ticket. However, blaming all the shit that happens in India on Pakistan without waiting for evidence has become standard operating procedure in some circles and I find that troubling.
It has been clearly established that ISI through Bombay Mafia played active role in the riots.
I did not know that. I know they were implicated in the blasts. Where can I look up about their role in the riot itself?
One thing I got out of "Black Friday" is that terrorism is not done by people who are looking for money. Those who are struggling to provide food and decent living for their families DO NOT, or I should say ARE NOT thinking about this bigger political goals.
Ok, I messed up the italics!
I did not suggest that Delhi, Bombay, Gujarat are engaging in periodic religious violence. India as a whole has been engaging in periodic violence. Its just not Delhi, Bombay and Gujarat. Its also Bhagalpur in Bihar, Meerut/Maliana in UP and Surat in Gujarat and there are others as well. I think having 6 major secretarian riots in 30 years in which state governments were complicit at varying degrees is very troubling.I am neither making a passioned plea nor giving ISI a clean ticket. However, blaming all the shit that happens in India on Pakistan without waiting for evidence has become standard operating procedure in some circles and I find that troubling.
It has been clearly established that ISI through Bombay Mafia played active role in the riots.
I did not know that. I know they were implicated in the blasts. Where can I look up about their role in the riot itself?
ACD, Suketu Mehta's book, "Maximum City" has an entire chapter regarding the bomb blasts and the subsequent riots. It's pretty detailed and very well written.
As I understand the mission has evolved. It started as CIA then included Frontier Province as its operating area and has now become all encompassing playing the roles of NSA, CIA, and local intelligence gathering part of FBI.
I did not know that. I know they were implicated in the blasts. Where can I look up about their role in the riot itself?
Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger Memon. As Comment #.30 said, what happened in riots, the blame rests on the people of Bombay. However, ISI was all too happy to provide kerosene and matches (Comment #.30).
Why do they (DI and TM) live in Pakistan? What has Pakistan to gain from having them there?
Sure, as I said earlier that making ISI as bogey man for everyhting serves no purpose either, it is shoving India's own problems under the rug. But ISI isn't imaginary either?
ACD, Suketu Mehta's book, "Maximum City" has an entire chapter regarding the bomb blasts and the subsequent riots. It's pretty detailed and very well written.
The bomb blasts took place after and not before the riots. I will check out the book. Thanks!
Somebody made the comment that these acts are normally the product of dirty and corrupt local politicians. This was exactly the case in the Gujrat riots. The main item when the BJP coalition was that Vajpayee would never rule on Ayodhya. By stoking the riots, some dirty pols were trying to force him to make a ruling on Ayodhya and therefore destroy the coalition govt that was in place at the time.
ACD,
ISI has a very complicated history.
India lies on at its core. It origins lies with Indo-Pak 1965 war.
There is a belief that any police presence is unwelcome in most Muslim areas by the Muslims themselves. From personal and second hand experience, I found this to be largely true in Maharashtra, TN, Gujarat, and Bengal. Would anyone who is personally from Hyderabad confirm whether this was/or was not the case in Hyderabad as well?
Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger Memon. As Comment #.30 said, what happened in riots, the blame rests on the people of Bombay. However, ISI was all too happy to provide kerosene and matches (Comment #.30).
Why do they (DI and TM) live in Pakistan? What has Pakistan to gain from having them there?
Sure, as I said earlier that making ISI as bogey man for everyhting serves no purpose either, it is shoving India's own problems under the rug. But ISI isn't imaginary either?
Kush: Are you suggesting that Dawood Ibrahim was behind the riots in Bombay? I havnt heard that before. I would like to look into that.
ACD,
Check out Hussain Zaidi's Black Friday or the movie based on it.
Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger Memon. As Comment #.30 said, what happened in riots, the blame rests on the people of Bombay. However, ISI was all too happy to provide kerosene and matches (Comment #.30).
Why do they (DI and TM) live in Pakistan? What has Pakistan to gain from having them there?
I do agree that the connection between the Bombay bomb blasts and the then Muslim mafia in Bombay and Pakistan is pretty well established.
This is exactly what I am talking about when I say that North India is not as safe as south India.. I don't think that anything like this has ever happened in the history of tamil nadu ever..
hey Chutiya: for #42, yes is the answer. You shud start looking outside the box.
I correct myself, ISI is even older than 1965, but again India (Kashmir) is the reason
You are wrong, There have been some incidents in Tamil Nadu as well, Coimbatore Blasts
You could say South India is more safe and more tolerant, but these things do happen in the South.
ACFD,
What I heard from my cop friend.
DI and TM are sort of captives / sarkari mehmans. They know too much and could easily embarrass ISI. After 9/11, the US is very keen to shut down ops of Pakistan/Dubai based bhais (originally from Mumbai).
I'm sure Rajiv Gandhi felt very safe after his trip to TN.
Moornam (#5):
Analysis... within just a few hours of the blast...
hmm, I think I'll wait for the 12-hour "analysis" to make up my mind, thanks very much.
"I'm sure Rajiv Gandhi felt very safe after his trip to TN."
Rajiv Gandhi's death is attributed to the LTTE, not to Muslim extremists.
However, I agree that no place is really safe.
hey Chutiya: for #42, yes is the answer. You shud start looking outside the box.
Any evidence of that? Why would Muslims get their ass beat if they had the Muslim mafia on their side and participating?
Chutiya-ji,
Your statements would have much more credibility if they were to reference situations where folks other than muslims have been targetted. As you point out, policing and intelligence are specially weak and vulnerable to manipulation at the state level. This isn't a hindu-muslim issue, it is fundamentally a governance and rule-of-law issue.
In addition to the Gujarat 2002 murders, I would point to the systematic ethic cleansing of the kashmiri hindus in the late-80s and early 90s (state govt didn't give a damn about it) and the more recent violence against bihari workers and traders in Assam (state govt wrings its hands and then quietly collaborates with the killers).
ACM,
First, let us focus on Hyderabad. I really like the Charminar-Mecca Masjid area. I have been there 4-5 times in last few years. It is the heart beat of India.
However,
You are missing the central point in Bombay riots of 1993. In December, 1992, there is Babri Masjid (in my opinion should have not happened at all, but they are no deaths), there are series of riots in Bombay in December - January (what is the role of Bombay Mafia (also Shiv Sena and others) in it, you think they (Bombay Mafia) are sitting on their hands, or sucking thumps. Who is supporting whom? Who is instigating whom? Who wants to up the ante?), and then comes the kicker - March 12, 1993 bombings led by Dawood Ibrahim and D-Company. Now he lives in Pakistan and his daughter's wedding is the social event of the year.
Is this too complicated?
>>Charminar-Mecca Masjid area. ... It is the heart beat of India.
I've been there too a few times - it's more like the armpit of India.
To each his own.
M. Nam
Moor,
I was there in that Mecca masjid area just last year. It is quite a nice place. Very alive and vibrant. One muslim boy ran up to me and tried to sell me knickknacks, so I bought one white muslim cap from him for six rupees. Then I gave him my camera and he clicked few pictures of me in the white muslim cap. Very fond memories. He also guided me to a very tasty biryani shop.
otoh, the very first time I went to buy Naan from a sabzi mandi in Iselin. Place was crowded with desi aunties and one of them knocked over my wife and she was quite stunned by their rudeness and failure to apologize. She said even in India she hadn't seen such a mad rush for Naan. That night at dinner we opened that Naan packet and it was full of white fungus on the inside. They had used a clean Naan on outside to deceive the patrons. That is the true armpit of USA, that Iselin market. These days we just buy the Hispanic tortila from Walmart and pretend it is just like Naan, after coating it with few spices.
You are missing the central point in Bombay riots of 1993. In December, 1992, there is Babri Masjid (in my opinion should have not happened at all, but they are no deaths), there are series of riots in Bombay in December - January (what is the role of Bombay Mafia (also Shiv Sena and others) in it, you think they (Bombay Mafia) are sitting on their hands, or sucking thumps. Who is supporting whom? Who is instigating whom? Who wants to up the ante?), and then comes the kicker - March 12, 1993 bombings led by Dawood Ibrahim and D-Company. Now he lives in Pakistan and his daughter's wedding is the social event of the year.
Kush: I am not speaking from my ass :)
I have done some research on sectarian violence (especially Hindu-Muslim) in India and the role of the Muslim mafia during the Bombay riots was minimal at best. In fact there is some evidence that the Shiv Sainiks and other Marathi newspapers incited the people with phantom reports of 'Muslim mafia men with AK-47 roaming the streets and killing Hindus'
I am not contesting the involvement of the Muslim mafia in the bomb blasts and I have already stipulated to that point. However you have implied that the Muslim mafia was involved in the riots in some significant way or at the same level that Shiv Sena was involved on the other side. I have never heard that before or saw it reported. Granted, the fact that I have not seen it does not mean that it did not happen. So I asked you to refer me to a source which will confirm that. I am quite willing to believe that the Muslim mafia played a significant role in the riots. I am just not aware of them playing any significant role and the fact that the overwhelming number of deaths were Muslim gives credence to my scepticism.
Speaking of the Muslim mafia, a lot of their foot soldiers are actually Hindus and some are even shiv sena marathi sympathizers. Remember, the Chief Operating officer for Dawood was Chotta Rajan during the riots. Its only after the Bombay blasts that he split up with Dawood.
Speaking of the Muslim mafia, a lot of their foot soldiers are actually Hindus and some are even shiv sena marathi sympathizers. Remember, the Chief Operating officer for Dawood was Chotta Rajan during the riots. Its only after the Bombay blasts that he split up with Dawood.
I agree. That is why I have been using the term "Bombay Mafia".
Overwhelming Muslim deaths, is just game of numbers because of their economic, and social vulnerability, and the core strength of Shiv Sena. Poor muslims living in ghettos are easy targets.
I do not think Bombay Mafia (or any entity) can match the strength of a militant wing of an organization (Shiv Sena and allied organizations in this case) that gets its recruits from the majority population of that place, be it India or any place on the earth.
In 1992-93, I used to live in US, and am not an expert on intricacies of what happened in December 1992-March 1993. Some Mumbaiker check chip in on the level of Bombay Mafia's involvement during that period.
My point is that ISI got really vested in Bombay situation.
As you point out, policing and intelligence are specially weak and vulnerable to manipulation at the state level. This isn't a hindu-muslim issue, it is fundamentally a governance and rule-of-law issue.
Yes, its more than a Hindu-Muslim issue. Its also a Hindu-Christian (Christmas Gujarat) and a Hindu-Sikh (84) issue. I think the Kashmir issue is different because the government was not actually complicit in the killings. And yes, you are right as to this being a rule of law issue.
Talking about the Bobmay 1992/1993 situation. The nationwide riots are provoked by the Advani's rath yatra and subsequent demolition of the Babri masjid. The Shiv Sena and its rag Saamna added to the fire which led to the Bombay riots. There was a lot of criticism of the police action here too as Muslims took brunt of the policing action (same as in Gujarat). Then the Mafia/ISI coordinated the revenge bob blasts in Mar 1993.
ok that was the story but how does it apply to the Hyderabad situation today? In the past there have been instances where political interests in Andhra were accused of triggeting riots in Hyd. It was during the Cong rule during the 1990s when X instigated riots to bring down Y who was the CM. And who were X and Y? X and Y were hindus of the same caste from the same party. And i'm sorry that i have no source to back this up but i was living in India back then and that was the talk on the street.
But the polarization of the police in AP is not to the extreme as in some other states. Maharastra and Gujarat come to mind. The police in AP have their own worries with naxalites. But this is not to say that AP Muslims trust the police either. Hell no one in India trusts the police. And that was one of the reasons the Center set up a para-military force called the RAF - rapid action force dressed in blue camos (not the usual police khakis) to deal with riots and such. That was progress. The Army is trusted too but not in places where they have policed on a continous basis...Kashmir and the North east come to mind.
From wikipedia account on Bombay Riots:
Now the questions are:
1) Was Bombay mafia and ISI completely uninvolved (uninterested) in the first phase of riots in December, 1992.
2) Is there a credible reason to believe that Dawood Ibrahim (ISI through him) had no involvement in tensions prior to March 12, 1993, even though the biggest event happened on March 12th.
3) It is widely believed that Shiv Sena was on the fore-front of tensions. But who were other players.
Somebody?
Pakis blowing things up in India? OMG, it cant be so. Please step aside while I barf at getting political commentary from Anna and Beavis caste.
wrong. Hindus trust the police in India and Muslims don't. This is not something new. It is the same case in pre-Independence British India where in their respective majority regions, Hindus and Muslims trusted the police to protect themselves and if they are in a minority they did not trust the police. I read a report that after the bomb blast, 3 rioting people were actually killed in a police shoot out.
wrong. Hindus trust the police in India and Muslims don't. This is not something new. It is the same case in pre-Independence British India where in their respective majority regions, Hindus and Muslims trusted the police to protect themselves and if they are in a minority they did not trust the police.
I agree 100%. You are spot on. Guess who trusts the police in Bangladesh? Its not the Hindus.
1) Was Bombay mafia and ISI completely uninvolved (uninterested) in the first phase of riots in December, 1992.
2) Is there a credible reason to believe that Dawood Ibrahim (ISI through him) had no involvement in tensions prior to March 12, 1993, even though the biggest event happened on March 12th.
The answers would be no and no.
Read the Srikrishna Commission report. Of course the Muslim part of the Mafia was involed in the riot and some of the bomb blasts accused also played a part in the riot. But the Mafia did keep out of the riot for the most part and the participation was marginal at best. It was however hyped by the Shiv Saina and local newspapers to incite.
Javed Dawood Taylor who was a lieutenant of Tiger Menom and Taylor did get shot in the foot during the riots. So that might be one of the revenge motives for Tiger Menom.
Generally, after this type of attacks, (it recurs like seasonal "gory" festivals) the police, intelligence agencies and the government of the day points out "ISI involvement" and there ends everything and life goes back to normal. What a pathetic bunch of officials?. Do these guys deserve the money they earn?.
That's tricky, because they don't earn much by any standards and have to "supplement" their incomes in other ways. My guess is the IPS/local police like to say "ISI" because it takes investigative responsibility off their plate. It could be the ISI but it could just as well be locals from either community.
Even if they earn just Rs 1000, do they deserve it. How many attacks in the past decade??. Even if it is ISI, isn't it the duty of these guys to protect people?. next day, you'd hear from the media how the city X has defeated the terrorists by returning to normal life. is this a joke?. what could the residents of the city do?. drown in the nearby ocean/sea/lake??. Normally, you'd hear this about Mumbai. But I think people are getting sick and tired of this.
I understand your frustration, but look at it this way. An FBI agent or local cop in the US can lead a middle class existence...the same is not true in India. If we want people of similar quality we will have to lure people away from less dangerous/higher paying options. We all want the same things, to have a safe home, provide for our kids...we should expect some level of altruism from cops but to expect a sanyasin with a gun who chooses this life just for the good of humanity is expecting too much. If we want a professional police force, we'll have to pay for it. Otherwise we end up with the goon squad.
Prevented attacks don't make news. Intelligence at least knew that an attack was coming in this case.
ACD,
I read parts of Srikrishna Commision report - the ones I can access through internet. No doubt, Shiv Sena volunteers were hungry for violence, there was lot of rumor mongering, and senseless incite.
However, from very early on Dawood Ibrahim was not behind. On January, 9th, he had set in motion to put Bombay in pits. According to Tehelka***
The Dighi consignment contained AK-56 rifles, hand grenades, magazines and ammunition. While Mohammad Dosa and his brother Mustafa coordinated the landing at Dighi, Tiger Memon handled the two landings at Shekhadi. Salim Shaikh participated in the landing at Dighi. After the Gujarat Police arrested him in 1995, Shaikh gave the police a graphic description of the landing at Dighi.
Around 300 silver ingots, 20 military-colour canvas bags, 30 wooden boxes (each about three feet long, two feet wide and one foot deep) were unloaded from a launch at Dighi on the night of January 9, Shaikh said in his confession. Each canvas bag had four tin boxes, which had ammunition for assault rifles. Each wooden box had four AK-56 rifles and 12 empty magazines. A couple of boxes had hand grenades while their pins were in separate boxes. The goods were loaded in a truck and a tempo, and the vehicles proceeded toward a forested area. A police party intercepted the vehicles and allowed them to go only after mortgaging seven silver ingots against a promise of being paid Rs 8 lakh in cash. The vehicles then went into a jungle where two trucks with hidden cavities were already waiting. Silver was put in one truck while arms and ammunition were loaded into the other, whose registration number was mrl 1051. “Abdul Qayyum Sajjani, Amir Jadia alias Mota and Babu Madrasi took the truck mrl 1051 and left for Gujarat,” Shaikh told the police. A few remaining boxes of arms and explosives and silver ingots were put into a tempo and taken to the nearby Agarwaad village, where they were kept in the house of a gang member called Shabbir Qadri. The Mumbai Police later recovered the weapons from Qadri.
*** Tehelka is one of the few respected investigative newspapers in India.
Also, Chote Rajan and Dawood Ibrahim had split earlier. He carries a Pakistani passport these days. Interesting, Tiger Menom's brother became state witness.
This all does not seem marginal to me. I am quoting from a national newspaper, not from some partisan website.
Kush: I dont know what Tehelka is (Hurricane?) but I will take your word for it being a respectable publication. I have read the link that you have posted. Nowhere does it say that this ammunition was used in the riot. It seems to me that he got the ammunition in anticipation of the riots after the bomb blasts. Here is a part of the article you linked to:
Wrong.. Government officials in India earn enough to lead a good existence. That's why you see people who have master's degree lining up to take police constable exams. There are thousands of people who can take the job if these folks resign due to economic reasons.
Recent reports on bomb crisis:
10 killed, 50 injured in Hyderabad mosque blast
Jaish hand suspected in Hyderabad blast
SIM card recovered
Wrong.. On official salary alone local low level cops won't be able to lead middle class existence in cities. They are willing to take those positions because they can supplement their official salary with bribes.
You should first define "middle class existence". I can tell you that there are literally hundreds of thousands of youth who can take the job with the same salary as it is offered now if these cops decide to quit for economic reasons. Do you know the pay scale?.
http://cbi.nic.in/Recruitments/RecruitmentRules.htm
Forty percent posts are filled up through Limited Departmental Competitive Examination.
Remaining twenty percent are filled up by deputation/absorption.
CONSTABLE
Group C
Sanctioned Strength: 1808
Pay Scale: Rs.3050-75-3950-80-4590/-
Forty percent posts of Constables are filled up by direct recruitment.
Remaining sixty percent posts are filled up by deputation/absorption.
The direct recruitment of Constables in CBI, is made on centralized basis by CBI Head Office. Their selection is made by the Committee constituted by the Director, CBI.
This is the Basic Pay, govt. employess typically get what is called Dearness Allowance (don't know what that means) plus other allowances that would make a constable earn atleast Rs 8000 p/m. That's pretty decent when you compare that with what others earn.
Just so you know, I am in partial agreement. Whatever cops are paid, we should expect them not to steal, carry out vendettas based on their caste/religious affiliation, extort, harass women..this is a given. But for competency in handling things beyond the mundane(i.e. petty theft, domestic violence, homicide while drunk on country liquor)and handling something of national (and possibly internatl) import, recruiters will have to offer more than $2,400 per annum to draw people away from call centers & other BCOMM degree holder type jobs that are now offering upwards of $4k a year. I would like to see the same type of professionalism depicted in the TV show Dragnet...."Just the facts bhen/begum". Basically someone with the demeanor of an IBM account exec but with a gun and lathi and some CSI type skills. Anyway this is a whole other thread, I hope state/central government/judiciary and handle this professionally and deliver justice for the victims, whoever the villain in this case may be.
question to beavis caste desis: when was the last time Hindus in Bangladesh threw stones and rioted at police?
I've done a bit of research on Hindu-Muslim violence in Hyderabad, and even though there's always talk of ISI influence, there's really very little evidence to support any of it. IMO, the vast majority is just baseless speculation by some Hindus who feel that the old-city Muslims do not identify with India or Hyderabad, but rather with Pakistan (and therefore must have ISI ties, as the reasoning often goes). There is, however, a decent amount of evidence that points to state and city-wide political elements as being responsible for starting them. Hyderabad was pretty riot free after independence, prior to the late 1970s... that was when politicians got involved in the religious festivals (e.g. Ganesh Chaturthi) and started organizing massive processions, instead of the traditional small ones, intentionally through the old city banging drums and shouting anti-Muslim slogans provocatively in front of mosques, etc. Meanwhile, Muslim politicians from the MIM (the Muslim-interest party that is today still in control of the Hyderabad parliamentary seat) started organizing their own processions to random festivals around the same time as Ganesh Chaturthi that had never needed processions before, and the result was confrontation and occasionally violence, often organized or abetted by the politicians themselves. During the period b/w '78 and '84, both the BJP and MIM gained massively at the elections at the expense of Congress and the Telugu Desam Party amidst a lot of rioting as both communities became more fearful of the other. This effect happened again after the massive riots in Hyd. in '90...post #62 was right about the riots in '90 - people believe that then CM Chenna Reddy's rivals in Congress wanted to bring him down and intentionally caused trouble in the old city (one source for this is Varshney's Ethnic Conflict and Civic Life)...but, the effect was that the MIM and BJP both gained at the polls and have finished one-two in the parliamentary seat elections ever since. Anyway, there's a lot I can say about this topic if I get carried away...my point is, Hyderabadi history over the past 40 years points to political interests as being responsible for trying to polarize the public and get Hindus and Muslims to hate each other and vote in bloc (I have numbers that show just how effective this has been)... i don't think there has ever been a bomb before, though, so this could be a break from the past...
and unfortunately, the attack still succeeded in this case partly because of the following:
Thats still not enough for a middle class existence in a city like Bombay. Most cops there live in slums and might have the local gangster as their neighbour or even a childhood friend.
It's time for the authorities to stop blaming Muslims for everything and look at extremists within the Hindu community.
The situation is spinning out of control. I hope sanity returns ASAP. Last year following the Sankat Mochan Mandir massacre in Varanasi when scores were killed, groups of Hindus and Muslims visited one another's shrines to join pujas and azaans. You then still had Bismillah Khan to lend a touch of peace, tranquility, and goodsense. And the Sankat Mochan purohit, a professor at BHU quickly dispersed reoublemakers and brought the entire situation under control. No such thing seems to be happening here. Unfortunate. The terrorists shd not be alowed to succeed
Here's the Reuters report in the NYT
Mob Stones India Police After Rites for Muslims Killed in Mosque Blast
HYDERABAD, India, May 19 (Reuters) — At least two policemen were injured here on Saturday when a mob pelted them with stones after the burial of victims of an explosion at a mosque and of violent clashes that ensued...Hundreds of people were returning Saturday after burying the dead when they started stoning police officers who had escorted them to the burial ground.
The officers fired eight rounds in the air and used tear gas to disperse the mob.
“Beat the police,” “Allah is great,” the protesters chanted...The police fanned out in Muslim-dominated quarters of the city to prevent a repeat of the riots that unfolded after the blast, when the estimated 8,000 worshippers in the mosque poured out and attacked anything that came their way.
It's time for the authorities to stop blaming Muslims for everything and look at extremists within the Hindu community.
Right!!!