I urge both cultures to unite under the beauty of our shared swarthy skins and hatred of American foreign policy.

I'm going to guess that the more conservative-types here (MD, Vikram, Manju) are gonna love that answer!

My cousins are mexican-desi and their chicano mom makes the best biriyani and all but they sadly don't have cool mixed names (like "Jorge Varghese" or "Juanita Menon" or "Pico Iyer" --- how sad he isn't one). What's the point of cross-cultural marriages if you don't give your kids cool mixed names.

It was Neale! (who suggested "Ask a Mexican", desi-style). I still love the original topic.

Abhi, will you tackle issues like taxi drivers, spicy food, acronyms, and bindis? I'm excited. :)

You know, I've read about the mixed Mexican-Punjabi marriages of the early 1900s before and I've always wondered about their descendants, etc. I haven't read the thesis, but does anyone know any more about that? It would be so interesting to hear their stories, what they know about their great (great-great?) grandparents and their heritage and what traditions, Mexican or Indian, are still in their family, etc.

Thanks to the magic of internets, I sorta answered my own question with this article written by the author of that paper: http://www.sikhpioneers.org/cpma.html

from the article:

Most of the Punjabi descendants refer to themselves as Hindu or East Indian today. When they talk about being Hindu, these descendants do not mean objective criteria that link them to India or the Punjab—attributes such as those an anthropologist might list. They are fundamentally ignorant of Punjabi and Indian culture. For example, while most of the men who founded these families were actually Sikhs, not Hindus, their descendants (and even the descendants of Muslim Punjabis) proudly claim to be Hindu. These descendants are almost all nonspeakers of Punjabi and have no sense of the Punjab’s distinctive regional culture. They have a sense of place and history, however, and they possess a heritage that is distinctly Punjabi nonetheless.

In California, furious abuelitas used to accuse me of forgetting my language and denying my heritage while I feebly tried to convince them that I wasn't Mexican. "Soy de la India," I'd say, but they'd waggle a finger and continue to lecture me en Espanol. Meanwhile, in the fledgling Bengali Bay Area community, marrying a Mexican ranked oh-so-slightly above marrying an African-American. Here's the old order of racial preference as far as I can remember: (1) Bengali of the right caste (2) Bengali, caste no bar (3) Non-Bengali Indian (4) White (5) Other ethnicity except for (6) Mexican and (7) Black -- with some minor changes when you factor in education, class, and religion. Have things changed?

inothernews: Check out Roots in the Sand, a PBS documentary about the Mexijabi population in California.

Meanwhile, in the fledgling Bengali Bay Area community, marrying a Mexican ranked oh-so-slightly above marrying an African-American. Here's the old order of racial preference as far as I can remember: (1) Bengali of the right caste (2) Bengali, caste no bar (3) Non-Bengali Indian (4) White (5) Other ethnicity except for (6) Mexican and (7) Black -- with some minor changes when you factor in education, class, and religion. Have things changed?

Nope.

Camille,
Dang! Now I feel stalked :-)

I loved this post...of course I can totally relate! I'm 1st generation American, Latina. My husband is Sikh born and raised in India, and our boys are mexi-desi so at home we speak Spindi! Seriously, our kids hardly speak English and are very fluent in Spindi. But they are only three. Funny thing is, when we are in Latin-America no one EVER speaks to me in Spanish and assume my husband is the Spanish speaker. And, when in an Indian setting, people speak to me in Urdu--nevermind he is the one speaking Hindi.

Anyway...

To El Otro Tipo de Indio: I don't know about a "rising trend" but we do know a lot of "spindi" couples. I think it's just a result of being in California...inevitable. But if you really want to make that Spanishfly your Spanishlarkhi, be yourself. If she is remotely interested in anything Desi, she'll be involved in the Hindustani stuff. Be yourself and don't be shy, ask her out already! Watch the movie Latcho Drom...we have so much in common. Blame it on the Spice Trail and the Moors in Spain, history repeats itself, right? And in general, if the girl loves her own culture she will appreciate yours too. But if you value your culture and she's running away from her own; watch out!

To DJ Drrrty Poonjabi: I scored major points with the Aunties in India for not being White, for knowing how to cook beans (err...dhal) and roll chapatis, for loving spicy food, and for holding my own in India. (Gracias Mama and Papa for taking me back to the homeland as a kid, little did I know that would prepare me for India, and the social-idiosyncracies of very involved, extended families!)

I hope you do keep up the new topic, would love to learn more about this "new trend."
-A Los Angeles SpanishKuri

P.S. I highly recommend Octavio Paz's "In Light of India" and perhaps that may shed a contemporary view of the Latino's Hindustani assimilation.

trend?

race/ethnicity of husbands & wives of 2nd and 1.5 gen indian brownz

Husbands

Asian Indians 69.2
Other Asians 3.7
Whites 20.5
Blacks 1.7
Hispanics/Latinos 4.3

Wives
Asian Indians 69.9
Other Asians 4.1
Whites 21.1
Blacks 2.5
Hispanics/Latinos 1.6

cite: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial2.shtml

p.s., the above data was derived form the census 2000 sets.

i got that book above when i won some high school award back in the day through some indian community scholarship... weird to see it on SM 14 years later....no, didn't read it.. although was fascinated by the punjabi-mexican roots.. i never knew about it, until then..

It's a great combination. I'm looking for a Brazilian wife.

Actually, quite a few Iranians seem to have picked themselves Latino chicas in the Texas region...i don't know whether it's a skin thing or the green card thing.

DJ Drrrty Poonjabi

inothernews: Check out Roots in the Sand, a PBS documentary about the Mexijabi population in California.

This one is awesome! I remember being fascinated when watching it - almost as enthused as when I met desis with hype Caribbean accents!

'Actually, quite a few Iranians seem to have picked themselves Latino chicas in the Texas region...i don't know whether it's a skin thing or the green card thing'

Latina chicas...
Anyway, maybe la chica es muy intelligente, muy chistosa and mucho fine.

loved this post...of course I can totally relate! I'm 1st generation American, Latina. My husband is Sikh born and raised in India, and our boys are mexi-desi so at home we speak Spindi!

the kids must be gorgious. a lot of times mixed kids are.

Coach, I think you pressed numero dos on your comment.

In any case, your remark reminds me of this delightful host.

the kids must be gorgious. a lot of times mixed kids are.

Please. Mixed kids hate this stereotype of being called gorgeous.

Please. Mixed kids hate this stereotype of being called gorgeous.

really? i would think most people would like a positive chache attatched to them. meh. whatever. fine.

SM techheads, can I please get an irony button for my browser?

In California, furious abuelitas used to accuse me of forgetting my language...

Is that a Cali/NY thing? I used to get that a lot there. Never in Texas though. They seem to know their browns well. Brilliant deduction based on sample size 1, btw.

a lot of food service types in ny speak to me in spanish. unfortnately no habla anything.

I urge both cultures to unite under the beauty of our shared swarthy skins and hatred of American foreign policy

"Which we so eloquently express by The linked text booing and taunting American beauty queens and soccer teams invited to our country"

Abhi, I know you said questions only over e-mail, but I propose a genre of questions: "Which is better?".

Suggested topics:

1. ABCDs or FOBs?
2. MS/PhDs in the US or NIIT nathu-geras?
3. North Indians or Tamils?
4. Thengalais or vadagalais?
5. India or America?
6. India or China?
7. Indian yogurt, biopot, or America?
8. Veatish or fair complexion?
9. Brahmins or Dalits?

There, that should keep you busy for a while. Let the education begin.

Actually Texas is booming with Mexican-American/Indian-American couples. I should know, I have 3 in my family and all 3 met and married in TX, majority of them in Houston. I will say that there are a lot of cultural similarities, but clearly the religions associated with each couldn't be more polar opposite. Perhaps not polar opposites, but different enough that it causes huge amounts of tension within the family. Not that all couples of different religious backgrounds don't deal with that, though.

All in all, one of the funniest moments of my life will still be when my grandparents met my future aunt's parents. Nani and Nana meet Abuelita y Abuelito. That would be the low budget version of Meet the Parents!

Nani and Nana meet Abuelita y Abuelito. That would be the low budget version of Meet the Parents!

Will there be dramatic music, buxom babes, and long duration close-ups on the faces of shocked actors?

In California, furious abuelitas used to accuse me of forgetting my language...

I don't know if that's limited to California. I've had it happen to me in the Midwest even. I routinely take public transport to work, and people often try to talk to me in Spanish. When I point out that I "no hablo espanol", it's always greeting with a withering look that suggests "oh, so jou too good for us now!"

I figure it would just be too complicated to explain that I'm Indian, and not the kind from Red Lake either.

Dont mean to threadjack, but not a peep on the Spelling bee???
what gives?

Of course, there would be all of the above! But unfortunately production will have to halt on song-and-dance number 19 as siesta time will have been long overdue....seriously, though, telenovelas are like somewhat distant relatives of Bollywood. So trust that there wouldn't be any shortage of uncomfortably long-winded closeups on the face of Shah Rukh Gutierrez.

Dont mean to threadjack, but not a peep on the Spelling bee??? what gives?

Here's what gives-- we put up whatever posts we can, i.e. what we have time to do. If we don't post about something, it's not a reflection of anything other than harried schedules, I promise. Some posts take longer than others, I have averaged about 30 mins for everything I've done lately. Other posts, especially ones which make me emotional (like Karishma Dhanak/the Anaheim tragedy) take me longer. I've been writing that post since yesterday.

And there we have it, my first "Ask a Desi" answer.

Dont mean to threadjack, but not a peep on the Spelling bee???

I don't want to be cynical/mean, but what's the big deal about the spelling bee anyway? Spelling is not a talent, it's a learned skill, and anyone can learn to do it. Furthermore, it's not even a particularly useful skill, because almost everyone will have access to some sort of spell-checking tool.

I appreciate the amount of time these kids spend prepping for the spelling bee (especially considering the obscurity of the words they learn), but I can think of at least ten more useful things they could be doing with their time.

Spelling is not a talent, it's a learned skill, and anyone can learn to do it. Furthermore, it's not even a particularly useful skill, because almost everyone will have access to some sort of spell-checking tool.

Your right. Their you have it, folks.

Spelling is not a talent, it's a learned skill, and anyone can learn to do it.

Many talents are learned skills.

Spelling is not a talent, it's a learned skill, and anyone can learn to do it. Furthermore, it's not even a particularly useful skill, because almost everyone will have access to some sort of spell-checking tool.

Your right. Their you have it, folks.

Rahul, was that a joke?

Many talents are learned skills.

i learned how to play the piano over the course of 2 decades. spending time sharpening some part of your mind most others dont isnt a bad thing. i think you can learn alot studying for a spelling bee. improves vocabulary, etc. also a good way to get some discipline in your kids life. thats the main thing i got out of the piano.

shlok on May 31, 2007 11:20 AM · Direct link

Spelling is not a talent, it's a learned skill, and anyone can learn to do it. Furthermore, it's not even a particularly useful skill, because almost everyone will have access to some sort of spell-checking tool.

Your right. Their you have it, folks.

Rahul, was that a joke?

Well, I guess I should be glad I peaked your interest.

in a mixed religion marriage, what religion do the kids usually turn out as?

Gracias for the kind words, abhi. Yes: please rip off my idea! And I'll be sending you a question soon for this topic!

i think you can learn alot studying for a spelling bee.

I agree, although, this guy's father is one scary mother f#$@(#cker.

41 · HMF on May 31, 2007 11:38 AM · Direct link

i think you can learn alot studying for a spelling bee.

I agree, although, this guy's father is one scary mother f#$@(#cker.

As penance, I'm going to make you spell Darjeeling right now! His failure caused the starvation of the thousand or so homeless people who were going to be fed as a quid pro quo to the gods.

Here's the old order of racial preference as far as I can remember: (1) Bengali of the right caste (2) Bengali, caste no bar (3) Non-Bengali Indian (4) White (5) Other ethnicity except for (6) Mexican and (7) Black -- with some minor changes when you factor in education, class, and religion.

Is it really true that "Bengali, caste no bar" > "Non-Bengali Indian," even if of the right caste? That's kind of heartening in a weird way.

Is it really true that "Bengali, caste no bar" > "Non-Bengali Indian," even if of the right caste? That's kind of heartening in a weird way.

I think thats the case in my community as well. i their minds north indians are just "too different". "not like us" etc.

Many talents are learned skills.

Not really. You can improve on innate ability with learning and practice, but learning and practice aren't substitutes for innate ability. I learned music for years, and while I know all the techniques and theory, I'll never be a world class musician, because I never did have the talent for it. I also learned tennis for years, and while I certainly got better, there was really never any chance I was going to win Wimbledon.

That's not true for spelling. Everyone can be a championship speller, with enough learning and practice. Everyone.

Everyone has talent, you just got to beat it out. To move forward and excel you have to really enjoy it.

There are muchos similarities between Mexican and Punjabi cultures — a love of flatbreads (tortillas and rotis), spicy cuisine and loud, drum-based music (banda and bhangra, respectively)

And our/their women both have back. There I said it.

Speaking of the Spelling Bee, looks like Kunal Sah was eliminated. That's too bad.

"Thwarted Scion of Hindu Nationalist Bristles at Rejection by Muslim-Influenced, Colonial Vocabulary"

I haven't read the thesis, but does anyone know any more about that? It would be so interesting to hear their stories, what they know about their great (great-great?) grandparents and their heritage and what traditions, Mexican or Indian, are still in their family, etc.

I think the PBS documentary is actually quite good. A lot of folks point to U.S. immigration as fueling this, but it's interesting to see how this trend has "picked up" (or at least seems to have picked up) in the last 15 years. I definitely have cousins in the Central Valley who have married really wonderful, sweet Xicanas. I have a little cousin-nephew who speaks English, Punjabi, and Spanish -- all really fluently!

Dang! Now I feel stalked :-)

Is that a Cali/NY thing?

in a mixed religion marriage, what religion do the kids usually turn out as?

I cannot believe we are discussing the spelling bee, whether spelling is a learned skill or talent, and whether it is a valuable skill (if a skill at all). !!!

Not really. You can improve on innate ability with learning and practice, but learning and practice aren't substitutes for innate ability. I learned music for years, and while I know all the techniques and theory, I'll never be a world class musician, because I never did have the talent for it. I also learned tennis for years, and while I certainly got better, there was really never any chance I was going to win Wimbledon.

That's not true for spelling. Everyone can be a championship speller, with enough learning and practice. Everyone.

Well, not being a world class musician or winning wimbledon doesn't mean you're untalented.

As for everyone being a champion speller, I disagree, spelling is more than rote vomitting of letters, it's a linguistic process. Many people link spelling of words with their inclusion into the working vocabulary, parsing the word into roots, and origin (at Scripps, you can request word origin) Being able to link phonetic pronounciation to iconographic descriptions of a word (many spellers try and "see" the word) is another strategy employed, and some people are better at visualization than others. Linguistic ability is surely variant amongst a populace, some people learn languages quickly, others learn slowly.

Surely, playing Beethoven's 5th is not as mesmerizing as spelling the word "helebore" correctly, but to dimish it to a rote process is too simple I think.

And speaking of talent, when Itzhak Pearlman was approached by a fan that said to him, "You are so talented, I'd give anything to play like you" .. He replied, "Well, I did."

Surely, playing Beethoven's 5th is not as mesmerizing as spelling the word "helebore" correctly, but to dimish it to a rote process is too simple I think.

I hate to be that guy, but it is hellebore :)

Surely, playing Beethoven's 5th is not as mesmerizing as spelling the word "helebore" correctly, but to dimish it to a rote process is too simple I think.

i learned to play rachmaninov pretty well by rote. the same way i learned math. maybe im a bit odd.

Well, not being a world class musician or winning wimbledon doesn't mean you're untalented.

You are a shame to Indians everywhere.

Blanket Statement Alert :

In Amreeka accent is more important than spelling.

In Amreeka accent is more important than spelling.

this might be true. depending on your field. in a lot of businesses speaking is fairly important, but the spellchecker catches spelling errors in business documents.

I don't know of any desi who has lived in a latino-heavy area in the States that hasn't got disapproving looks from folks trying to speak to them in Spanish and not buying the "I swear I'm not spanish" protest - it's like aunties all over again, with the head-shaking about these kids who've lost their roots (well, maybe I have lost my roots, they just ain't your roots).

As for cultural commonalities, the telenovela is certainly something that desis hooked on mangalsutra soaps can identify with - and the show Jassi Jaisi Koi Nahin was of course based on Betty la fea. There's a good deal that translates culturally between latinos and desis and Middle Easterners, actually, I watched a Mexican film version of a Naguib Mahfouz novel (with Salma Hayek in it) that worked really well, culturally speaking.

spellchecker catches spelling errors in business documents

I disagree, spelling is more than rote vomitting of letters, it's a linguistic process

I think you overemphasize the importance of the linguistic process with regard to spelling like a champion.

First, I assume that any entrant in a spelling competition has a certain level of facility with the language of the competition, and therefore, any variation due to disparities in the ability to learn language is nullified. Second, unlike the bare linguistic process associated with learning a language, spelling is largely rote learning. Once you've seen and heard a word, you can usually spell it, even without knowing the etymological background of the word (although structural details like that are certainly useful).

The point is, everyone can be trained to spell like a champion. But not everyone can be trained to pitch like Roger Clemens, no matter how much time and energy is devoted to mastering the skill.

I hate to be that guy, but it is hellebore :)

I know, but I was being a Clever McCleverface by typing out the incorrect spelling given by our Mr. Kadakia.

All in all, one of the funniest moments of my life will still be when my grandparents met my future aunt's parents. Nani and Nana meet Abuelita y Abuelito. That would be the low budget version of Meet the Parents!

As for cultural commonalities, the telenovela is certainly something that desis hooked on mangalsutra soaps can identify with

I can't pass this up - what are mangalsutra soaps? Marriage-related telenovelas? Please enlighten me, SP.

Somebody ought to do a Chingo Singh mashup in honour of this occasion.

I'm on it.

Once you've seen and heard a word, you can usually spell it, even without knowing the etymological background of the word

According to Steven Pinker, a high school student has command of 60,000 words. But the champions of spelling bees must use principles of similarity, origin, and recursion to be able to spell the esoteric words (like esoteric) that get thrown at them. So things like etymology and word roots become much more important. Spelling at the level these kids do it is certainly not something everyone can do, because even if your downplaying of innate linguistic ability is correct, championship level spelling would require a memory that far exceeds normal capacities.. That is not something universally acquired.

Spelling at the level these kids do it is certainly not something everyone can do

I disagree. If the movie Spellbound was anything to go on, these kids spend literally years training for the Spelling Bee, and anyone could spell at that level, with that amount of training.

Also, my larger point really was that there are more useful skills to cultivate. Spelling is a largely useless skill in the modern world, isn't it? I mean, being a great speller may help you quickly identify a word you've never heard before, but that happens rarely in the real world, and I can't think of a profession where being a really great speller puts you at a distinct advantage over your peers.

Ok, to bring it all back to the Mexicans and the Indians:
What I thought was amazing in the Spellbound movie was that the child of illiterate Mexican immigrants was training herself for the spelling bee.
And the child of the Indian immigrants had all these fancy tutors.

And he almost got out on the word Darjeerling! Ironic, isn't it. His parents hired him French and Latin tutors and to learn word roots and he almost got out on a word from India.

I can't think of a profession ....

I disagree. If the movie Spellbound was anything to go on, these kids spend literally years training for the Spelling Bee, and anyone could spell at that level, with that amount of training.

And people like Roger Clemens don't undergo the same level of training to perfect their skills?

The movie spellbound to me shows that not everyone has the right mindset and temperament to undergo such training, that only a select few make it into the final rounds, where it becomes more or less a luck of the draw as to who wins.

Its the same in sports too.. Ever heard of Dan Marino.. and Roger Clemens? Both of these athletes are excellent players, neither of them have a ring.

And I largely agree that there are larger skills to cultivate, Spelling in and of itself is not a useful skill, however insofar as it builds a sense of comraderie, healthy competition, and discipline, it's as useful as anything else.

and I can't think of a profession where being a really great speller puts you at a distinct advantage over your peers.

You can kick ass in wheel of fortune.

Boondi - these are serials made by Ekta Kapoor that you couldn't have missed if you were in India at any point in the last five years. Here are the main ingredients.

Can we re-title this post to "Ask a Desi to Spell"

@65;

Don't be a Debbie Downer . Some people actually take a lot of pride in their achievement. besides, if everyone can be a Spelling bee champion, why aren't you one? the fact is one has to have the right attitude and aptitude to become a achieve mastery of a certain task.

besides, if everyone can be a Spelling bee champion, why aren't you one?

Ah, I was wondering why it took such a long time for someone to trot out the old canard about "if you're complaining about, it's only because you're jealous".

I already said that I have appreciation for how hard these kids work, but having the ability to apply yourself to a task diligently isn't the same as having a unique talent. And yes, I probably could have been a spelling champion, but the US is possibly the only country where being able to spell is considered an achievement rather than a natural progression. And since I didn't grow up in the US, I missed out on the chance to prove I could do what everyone else can do too.

And people like Roger Clemens don't undergo the same level of training to perfect their skills?

That was my initial point about talent. If average Joe Schmoe trained just as long and hard as Clemens, he probably still wouldn't be able to pitch like Clemens. But Joe could train just as long and hard as some of these champ spellers and probably spell just as well as they can.

Fwiw, I actually have a friend who won the Spelling Bee way back in 1991, but even she thinks the thing was lame in retrospect.

Somebody ought to do a Chingo Singh mashup in honour of this occasion.

I'm on it.

Did I say somebody? I meant DJDP. It warms my heart to see my demented wish fulfilled so quickly.

If average Joe Schmoe trained just as long and hard as Clemens, he probably still wouldn't be able to pitch like Clemens. But Joe could train just as long and hard as some of these champ spellers and probably spell just as well as they can.

I agree with you on point 1, not on point 2. To prove who's correct, we'd need to have a "she's all that" type deal where a bunch of spelling champions pick someone who they think could never be one, and he'd need to be trained.

Fwiw, I actually have a friend who won the Spelling Bee way back in 1991, but even she thinks the thing was lame in retrospect.

Well, that's not scripps. but I agree, I'd rather engage in something else, but I won't think its something everyone can do.

Don't be a Debbie Downer .

No. Be a Debbie does Downer. now that takes some talent.

Well, that's not scripps.

Incorrect. It is Scripps, and you can see my friend's name listed as the 1991 champ.

Oh no kidding, the first link you sent didn't have scripps in it. Even in the movie spellbound, when they interviewd most of the previos winners, none of them responded, "wow, its the most useful skill I ever learned"

I hate to be that guy, but it is hellebore :)

I know, but I was being a Clever McCleverface by typing out the incorrect spelling given by our Mr. Kadakia.

My apologies, then :)

Fwiw, I actually have a friend who won the Spelling Bee way back in 1991, but even she thinks the thing was lame in retrospect.

Is this a variant of "some of my best friends are blacks/jews"? :) Alright, I need to go practice my pole vault and javelin now.

probably could have been a spelling champion, but the US is possibly the only country where being able to spell is considered an achievement rather than a natural progression.

Ouch! that smarts...but I must admit your spelling is I-M-P-E-C-C-A-B-L-E

"but having the ability to apply yourself to a task diligently isn't the same as having a unique talent"

I think Ted Williams wrote that its pretty much the same thing...I figure he would know :)

Is this a variant of "some of my best friends are blacks/jews"? :)

Nah. But given the number of desi contestants in the Spelling Bee, the odds are good, no?

probably could have been a spelling champion, but the US is possibly the only country where being able to spell is considered an achievement rather than a natural progression.

being able to spell is one thing. winning one of these bees is a whole nother level.

82 · hema on May 31, 2007 03:09 PM · Direct link

Is this a variant of "some of my best friends are blacks/jews"? :)

Nah. But given the number of desi contestants in the Spelling Bee, the odds are good, no?

Yes, some of the spelling bee champs WERE my best friends :)

This my friends is a natural talent. This guy will go places. Or at least, be able to name the places he goes to.

(must watch, especially for Tams).

Also, bees are of more value than some people here give them credit for.

Boondi - these are serials made by Ekta Kapoor that you couldn't have missed if you were in India at any point in the last five years.

Thanks, SP! I've only been to India once, and that was for my wedding, so I didn't get to watch any tv. I'll ask my husband whether he knows about it - he's (an out-of-the-loop) Indian, and I'm his foreign tagalong.

"I just want to heal. Like Dr. Phil. Or Frasier Crane."

Oh, do tell...
It's said so innocently/earnestly that one almost misses how snarkily funny this line is.

Will the healing be like a mallet to the kneecap, so I forget about my headache? :)

Parents spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars every year on involving their kids in various actvities. The expectation is to learn everything possible and if the child shines and shows exemplary talent in one of them, pursue it till the cows come home. If not, it is still all good, you are creating guidelines for your child to follow in a certain path to some degree of success. Yet, nothing is guaranteed.

Roger Clemens was probably just another kid, when someone spotted how hard he can throw a ball in the playground,mentored him and made him a money making machine he is today :-). BTW White Sox is going to kick his a$$ on Monday, he won't last 4 innings!!

Post #68 by HMF
Roger Clemens does not have a ring?

Last time I checked Roger Clemens has 2 rings with the Yankees in 1999 and 2000. I hate people who think they know it all, but don't get there facts right.

BTW White Sox is going to kick his a$$ on Monday, he won't last 4 innings!!

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who celebrates when the Yankees bite it. :)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who celebrates when the Yankees bite it. :)

to quote billy joel "im in a new york state of mind"

Last time I checked Roger Clemens has 2 rings with the Yankees in 1999 and 2000. I hate people who think they know it all, but don't get there facts right.

Oh true dat. I meant to say Don Mattingly. I knew there was a yankee who had the Dan Marino syndrome.

I am sorry to see Samir patel lose in the spelling bee. According to http://www.spellingbee.com/statistics.asp, he was the only 5 year repeater in the competition.

the Dan Marino syndrome.

That does suck for him, especially now that Peyton has got himself a ring.

I don't know how important spelling will be if the Spelling Society gets its way:
http://www.spellingsociety.org/

There is a movement out there encouraging spelling words as they sound. Especially in light of how people talk to one another (via text messaging,etc).

A staunch supporter of this movement was interviewed by the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) a few weeks ago, and was explaining how the english language has become too difficult and archaic because it's spelling hasn't been modernized.

Unlike other languages, where a word is spelled by characters that represent sounds (i.e. Hindi, Urdu, Japanese, etc.) english words are full of complex spelling "codes". He used many examples, one of which was Castle, why not spell it cassel, which is how it's now pronounced.

Unlike other languages, where a word is spelled by characters that represent sounds (i.e. Hindi, Urdu, Japanese, etc.) english words are full of complex spelling "codes". He used many examples, one of which was Castle, why not spell it cassel, which is how it's now pronounced.

but...different people in different places say the same english word in very different ways.

I can't believe the kid went to the Bee 5x. That is awful! :)

Neale,

Do you think later versions of sapiens will have less evolved ..cough...brains? Or at least the part that handles memory?

hema, I disagree. I think spelling is really helpful, especially in vocabulary development and advanced reading, at least in your school days. I personally love spelling and etymology, mostly because I think it is interesting. But spelling and etymology also really helped me throughout middle and high school as I began to read more advanced work in English class. I think I retained much more because I didn't have to run to the dictionary every 5th page to figure out a word. I also think it helps you link historical events to the changing use of a word. I also think it helps you define appropriate context. Not to be crazy, but I think spelling, like math, can help build better foundations for understanding. I'm sure this isn't the case for everyone, but if it is a tool that helps some kids, what's the harm? I think the craziness of the Spelling Bee is something else entirely!

Haha, I hate the Yankees, and I love the way this thread is going! Next topic: Maths or medicine?

I'm with Puliogre. How would you draw distinctions between homonyms?

I think English is a pain in the butt to learn, and difficult. But I kind of like the pain, I guess?

"but...different people in different places say the same english word in very different ways."

true. he was referring to words that are no longer pronounced the way they used to be (ex. cough, neighbour (I know, in the US it's neighbor), laugh -) he discussed changing these words to cof, naybor and laf.

Just an interesting take on this topic.

But I kind of like the pain, I guess?

No wonder you like S(+)M! Thank you, I won't be here all week.

I personally love spelling and etymology, mostly because I think it is interesting.

Etymology is very important, it gives you the entire history of a word, and from what society, and implications and connotations are associated with it. For example, romance is essentially a western concept, and this becomes clear when looking at the words root:
romans, as in, from Rome.

I think spelling is really helpful, especially in vocabulary development and advanced reading, at least in your school days

I'm not denying that learning how to spell has its uses. But most of us learn the fundamentals of spelling in elementary school, and while etymology may be interesting, it's usually secondary to the need to spell correctly to be understood...and by the time the average American is an adult, spelling is a pretty simple process, and spell-checkers can usually fix problems with typographic dyslexia. :)

I just don't see competitive spelling as useful. That's all.

Hema, I can see this POV. I remember when I met the regional spelling bee champion who was like 16/17 years old, I remember thinking, "Does he hang out with the southern Jersey hide and seek champion?"

I guess it depends on what you think the function and purpose of language/spelling are? :) Maybe it's the writer in me that loves words (although I mangle them, and grammar, all the time on SM!)

I agree with you in that competitive spelling is kind of strange. All these "merit" competitions have become such a racket, though. It's another thing for a kid to put on his/her resume. Whatever happened to the joy of spelling? Am I being ridiculous. Probably a little :)

For example, romance is essentially a western concept, and this becomes clear when looking at the words root:romans, as in, from Rome.

The expectation is to learn everything possible and if the child shines and shows exemplary talent in one of them, pursue it till the cows come home.

I guess spelling is the safety talent: if nothing else work out, you can always be the champion speller. After all, one has to be something.

After all, one has to be something.

You know how those beauty pageant contestants always show off one of their talents? Imagine if someone said "oh, i'm really good at spelling." They could have an impromptu bee right there on stage!

Haha, is that how you get out of doing "romantic" things in your relationships? ;) (I keed, I keed)

No, I'll do them, I just acknowledge that it's essentially a western concept, as is "Valentines Day"

No, I'll do them

Ha! The things men will do...

hema, I would watch that pageant. For the spelling, of course ;)

HMF, I am laughing so hard. "I'm sorry, next time we get it on could we do without the Western social constructs? Thanks."

Exactly, you just echoed Chris Rock's joke:

"Anytime a man does something nice, all he's doing is offering d*ck. 'Uh, can I get that for you? How bout some d*ck?, Can I help you with that? Can I help you to some d*ck??'"

"Samir Patel is the Jim Kelly of spelling"-Dan Patrick [today on the his radio show]. Most of the 1st hour of his show, Dan Patrick spend talking about Mr.Patel[ who Dan Patrick picked to win] and his controversial ending. They even had Stuart Scott come on and give an update during the time when Samir filed his protest. Also they played an interview from 2 weeks ago with Samir on the Dan Patrick show, where the young Samir sounded kind of arrogrant.

Question: I am an agnostic Hindu. I have not come across any Indian Christians who think I need to be saved. Luckily my white friends do not think I need to be saved either by believing in Jesus Christ. But there are many white Americans who believe in the point that we are going to hell if we do not believe in Jesus. Those kind of feelings were not that obvious to me when I was a kid. But I encountered quite a few people who voiced those sentiments as I grew older. So what do people here think about this and have they had any experiences with this issue?

So what do people here think about this and have they had any experiences with this issue?

In lieu of payment for my services, I will allow a donation of $25 to the JDRF. it's for the kids. Have a nice day.

Just to show you that not all ABDs are spelling bee champs, I saw this one chick Sunny Leone on the Debbie Does Dallas Again reality series on Showtime. She is a porn star(why is it that every porn actress is referred to as a porn STAR) and I think she is from a Punjabi family. The funny thing is she was afraid of what her parents might think because she was considering getting into hetero porn instead of just lesbian scenes. I can't imagine why her parents would care once they got used to hearing about their daughter being in X rated lesbian sex scenes.

Pravin,
A similar experience :

I had some door to door missionaries come by my home .They were 2 very nice ladies who pressed some literature on me , invited me to their church and asked me if I was a Christian. I replied that I am technically a Hindu but that I pray to Jesus and other Gods too because I believe that all prayers lead to one God. One of them replied "Oh we hear a lot of that sort of thing nowadays" and her expression was really priceless :-)

I promised to read their literature and that was the end of that.

So what do people here think about this and have they had any experiences with this issue?

I've had a few people tell me that not accepting Christ means my soul cannot be saved, but I'm not sure how widespread this belief is among Christians in general. I get the sense that this is more of a fundamentalist Protestant belief, and isn't that widespread among "older" denominations like the Catholics and people in the Orthodox churches.

My Orthodox friend tells me that the Orthodox Christians are supposed to worry more about their own salvation rather than that of others, so you do what is good for your soul instead of worrying about the eternal damnation of other souls (or something like that...I'll wait for Akka's correction).

I saw this one chick Sunny Leone on the Debbie Does Dallas Again reality series on Showtime

Sunny already has an awesome following among SM regulars, or so I hear. :)

@ Roger Clemens talent

No amount of steroids/HGH will help you in the Spelling Bee though. For that matter, no amount of steroids will help Rajah when he goes 4 innings on Monday night, gives up a few dingers and leaves with a pitch count of 100.

My sister went to this missionary run college in India and she would get lots of people try to get her to read the Bible. Her stock response was to offer them the Bhagvad Gita and say if you read this, I'll read the Bible. No one took her up on it.

Question: I am an agnostic Hindu. I have not come across any Indian Christians who think I need to be saved. Luckily my white friends do not think I need to be saved either by believing in Jesus Christ. But there are many white Americans who believe in the point that we are going to hell if we do not believe in Jesus. Those kind of feelings were not that obvious to me when I was a kid. But I encountered quite a few people who voiced those sentiments as I grew older. So what do people here think about this and have they had any experiences with this issue?

How on earth did a thread about Mexicans and Desis making sweet, mirchi love turn in to THIS? I kind of understand how spelling bees came up, since at least that's something going on tonight, but proselytization? Yay, an open thread!

Jesus would have kicked ass in a spelling bee.

wtf, Isn't the thread "Ask a Desi"? Not just about "ask a Desi about Mexican American" issues. You do not have to quote my entire comment.

So…if you have any questions for a Desi (or Indian, South Asian, whatever you prefer) I am now your man. Send them my way at abhi [at] sepiamutiny dot com. I will try to answer at least one question a week and I will only tackle questions sent via email and not via the comments.

Pravin, I guess you missed that "don't ask it in the comments" part which was highlighted. ;)

I'll fess up. I disliked your threadjack, especially since we've been there and done that "Oh no, Christians want to convert me!" discussion several times on this blog over the last few years.

i do think a lot of the soul saving business comes from white protestants, but newly converted indian christian (pentecostals, jehovah's witnesses, etc.) are also into that sort of deal. i don't think i've ever heard of anyone preaching and trying to convert people in my orthodox church. my mom, for a period of time, went to a lutheran church because our church was too far away, and she stopped because the minister gave a sermon about how those of other religions will go to hell. she was shocked because you would never hear that in the old indian churches.

on the other hand, living in the middle east, my best friend who was an indian muslim told me that i would go to hell because i wasn't muslim. apparently, her parents had said so.

so, i guess you find a little of that in most faiths, though it isn't common in my experience.

I somehow have special affinity for latina's. I have found that for me,among various ethnicites,the latinas are the ones I am most likely to stay involved with long term (longest one 3+ years). I think its somehow natural compatibility between the two cultures.

To add to the questions in #26, here's a couple more:

Which term would you use?

1. Vigyan or Science?.
2. FOB or DBD?

Dear Abhi,

How do you type with boxing gloves on?

^__^