This is going to be the sloppiest, most rushed entry I’ve ever posted, but that’s because I’m so excited about what I just saw, I want to get the information to you sooner vs. later. I can edit after I publish, damnit.
There’s a show we have received several tips about— “The Lot”. We keep hearing about it because it has a desi contestant named Shalini Kantayya:
ON THE LOT, executive-produced by Mark Burnett and Steven Spielberg, will give aspiring filmmakers from around the world the chance to earn a $1-million development deal at DreamWorks.
Premiering on May 22 and airing twice a week throughout the summer on FOX, this reality-competition series features a cast of undiscovered filmmakers who will compete to win the support of the show’s viewers, as their fate will be decided by a weekly audience vote…
Every week, the hopeful filmmakers will produce short films from a chosen genre, running the gamut from comedies to thrillers, dramas to romance, action to horror. They’ll have access to the best resources the industry has to offer — professional writers, cast and crew, and maybe even Hollywood celebrities. [link]
I usually don’t get home until about now, so I knew I wouldn’t get to watch it and that’s why I promptly forgot about it— until tonight, when I was channel-surfing because I’m sick and on the couch. Once I heard that of the 15 finalists, five would be featured tonight, I stuck around to see if the brown girl would be in the ring…and she was.
Despite being high on codeine and everything else in my virus-wracked system, I sat up for the first time all day because THIS GIRL IS TALENTED. No wonder they plucked her out of a pool of 12,000 applicants from all over the world.
I’m not typing that because she’s brown— she had the BEST FILM OF THE NIGHT and Michael Bay, the guest judge who directed “Transformers”, agrees with me.
Here’s the thing: there’s but a wee two-hour window in which to vote for true awesomeness (dial 1-88-Thelot-05 or click the next link to show your love online). You can vote as many times as you’d like (handy “Vote” button is highlighted in yellow) AND you can view Shalini’s 3-minute clip yourselves— I think once you do, you’ll be cheering her on as effusively as I am, though you won’t sound like a frog while doing it.
The 1 min clip was impressive but this killed it for me :)
See, I didn't see her one-minute clip OR read her bio OR really know anything about her-- which is why my ardour for her feels so pure. :D
wishing you a speedy recovery Anna
Vanya, can we blame whoever put the content up and give Shalini the benefit of our doubt? Aw, is my girl crush showing or what? ;)
::
Raju, thank you so much. :) Very kind of you.
Kudos to your tuning in, Anna. I understand that the show's viewership increased 50% tonight, thanks to you.
(It had to be said.)
thanks for the tip, anna - the short is so funny!
i can see how the gandhi comment can seem stereotypical or irritating, but c'mon! don't tell me you've never identified with the scene where he's booted from the train in pretoria!
n-f-s (may I call you "n-f-s"? ;)
I think our first commenter was objecting to the spelling error vs her choice of films. That's why I immediately attempted to blame someone else for it, since I doubt Shalini did the final spell-check etc. :D
VOTE!
Her film was about a South Asian comedian who is gay and there were times when I couldn't even tell you what he said, because the entire three minutes were shot so beautifully. Suh-woooon.
Yeah the picture and those teal glasses don't help us in being objective about which contestant, i mean film is the best.
A N N A on June 5, 2007 09:55 PM · Direct link
Vanya, can we blame whoever put the content up and give Shalini the benefit of our doubt? Aw, is my girl crush showing or what? ;)
::
Raju, thank you so much. :) Very kind of you.
maybe i'll wait a week or two to see if she Sanjaya's herself out of the contest...
no offense to the Sanjaya lovers - his audition was amazing.
n-f-s is just fine.
the spelling irritates me too, so point taken. obviously the Fox web editors weren't Scripps contenders...
also - i am coming to DC early next week - any chance of a SM social gathering? *crosses fingers and toes*
whoops - sorry, i see you are ill - didn't mean to push for an outing - get well soon!
1) If we don't vote for her tonight, you may not have that luxury. :)
2) Everyone at SM is well-aware that I love my papaya...but to me, Shalini is way more skilled than Sanjaya, relatively speaking. Watch her stuff, she's good!
http://www.adropoflife.tv/trailer.html
a more serious film by Shalini
I voted three times yeah I am lazy.
OMG.. I'm so glad you covered it.. already voted 10X. Does anybody know who the featured comedian is?
dude i texted mad times. i was really hoping SM would cover her. what'd you all think of her little film on the south asian gay comedian? how bold was that shit?! while the other kids were doing their little routine 3 min comedy. she actually made a documentary? insane!
i also didn't think that the other girl made that bad of a film. it was voted the worst of the night. i thought it was the second or third best.
ok i voted until the flashing of "vote again" had me worried about seizures.
I think she also tried out for the show to bring attention to her work. I'm sure everyone saw the Jay-z UN MTV special and already knows about
the water issue. When you read this information from Shalini's film site it strikes a nerve again.
Her theme song is "Umi Says" by Mos Def...
another of Mos Def's songs apply to her film "New World Water"
http://www.adropoflife.tv
""The more I researched and read about water, the more I became convinced of the vice president of the World Bank's Ismail Serageldin's statement on the future of war. "If the wars of the twentieth century were fought over oil, the wars of the next century will be fought over water." I found the statistics alarming; between one-half and two-thirds of the world's population will not have access to drinking water by the year 2027.""
Here are some more indep south asian filmmakers, since I predict the thread may turn this way
http://www.poormansproductions.com/
http://www.personapix.com
http://www.oncemoreremoved.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9&Itemid=5
http://www.jaman.com/a/group/0pMgtaeNUggM/discussion/0T2YsoZKVQPU/
I had EXACTLY the same response as Vanya - Ghandi?? But then, we have to give her the benefit of doubt - maybe the content was put up by some other moron. The one minute short was ok. Good editing and timing.
Agree with Vanya, that GHANDI was nearly the first thing I saw too, but maybe she didn't write her responses (one hopes)? The clip, though, has a guy singing a really bad Desi English telegram, and that "Grandpa?" thing is straight out of "Must Love Dogs".....
Anna, not to out-Fanjaya you, but a) while his audition may not have been as good as Raju remarks, we did see the Papaya get better, and b) Papaya showed a way better Desi accent at the Asian awards...wait for it.
http://www.adropoflife.tv/trailer.html
This looks good. Raju, I voted.
But are you guys watching the three-minute film I saw tonight? It's the one Shlok mentioned-- if you went to the website I linked, and you clicked vote, I think THAT was the ONLY way to view it. If you went to her contestant page or whatever which had the scarlet misspelling, you'd only see her other film, which was nowhere near as moving. :)
Three phrases I love to hear!
By the way-- our girl Shalu (do you love how I just appropriated and nicknamed her?) IS NOT ALLOWED TO SEE THE SITE or watch the show...so it's not like she even knows about the glaring typo. Eeeek. She also doesn't know about the shitty ratings SY accurately referenced.
Yeah the clip on the vote page is better than the one minute clip. the link you originally put up only brings us to the main page...
have to click vote, zip, email then you see the video :
Well, it was a quick and dirty post...and I couldn't see a way to link to the voting "pop-up". Once I went back to try and add links for my second update of this, I was confused by the site. But I should have spelled out what you did, sooner. Mea culpa.
Thanks for posting this Anna - I voted about 10 times before it cut me off! Her video was amazing - the others were ok, the dough musical had me cracking up, but they were nothing compared to her movie. It was shot so well and was really moving, while still being funny. Loved it!
Feel better! =)
Her film tonight was really awesome!!!
Oh, ANNA, she's great! I've been dyyyyyyying for SM to pick this up. I didn't like her comedy short last week, but even for a "mediocre" short I enjoy her technique. I like her "serious stuff" (as the judges call it) way more. I also love her because of her water work (I like to project my own interests onto others that way, haha).
Hope you're feeling better =/ Codeine is no fun.
Ohhh not fair, they don't have this show aired in the UK yet, and seeing all the comments and the post regarding it I really wanna watch this now. I have tried searching for it on YouTube but for some psycho reason my PC is not allowing too go on to this website. arghh soo annoying.. Any of you beautiful peeps know of any decent websites that I can watch this show on?
Hey Anna hope you get well soon. High on Coedine is soo crapy... Now i'm feeling hungry :S hmmm feel like some vege puri..
Some of the films work; the latest film in question does not load up. May be a UK thing.
Anna, Boiling water, dollop of Honey, fair few drops of lemon and dash of brandy does the trick. If that does not work the substitute the honey, water and lemon for more brandy. ;)
I'm trying them now, and hers is the only movie that won't play, while the other 4 do. Dough (the musical) is the best of the lot, the ones I can see, that is.
Great to see some original and new talent. Good luck to her!
Hey American cousins, there's an American Desi director who is showing his movie in the UK at festivals at the moment. It's called 'Punching at the Sun' and I'm going to try and catch it, listened to a radio interview with him. It's about Indian youth in New York after 9/11, got great reviews and looks raw and truthful. I don't remember it being reviewed by anyone on Sepia Mutiny.
Great post Anna and appropos to an earlier discussion about indians in the media.
You're right, I never considered that possibility. In which case I truncate my first comment to:
and she gets my vote. Thanks for introducing us to her, Anna.
Are you sure you weren't high on diet pills?
Yay! Glad to see a post on this. Best of luck to Shalini, can't wait to see the full movie!
That Sanjaya link to the asian awards is hilarious - what was he thinking with the "my hart is beeetiing" accent? worth the wait, thanks Amrita.
Have not been able to view shalini's video, taking to long to upload, is anyone else having that problem?
ps - In her above pic she looks like a brown Hilary Swank...........
Thanks for posting this Anna. Shalini's piece on Vidur Kapur was well received by her peers and Michael Bay. Now, I definitely have to give his Transformers movie a chance!
oh, also here are some sites about her and more pictures of her:
http://ourvoicesinmedia.blogspot.com/
http://www.7thempiremedia.com/
I was not, actually. I have bronchitis.
Since this is the seventh comment you've left about me, I'd like to propose an idea, because I'm solution-oriented like that; get me a personal trainer. Your phat salary at UBS should be more than enough to cover it.
Or are you one of those people who likes to complain about a problem, but not do anything about it? You're so persistent with calling me "elephant" and telling me I eat too much, put up or shut up. Contact me via my email, which is also where I would prefer you take whatever your bizarre problem with me to-- no one should have to read you here.
Hate to be a party pooper, but doing this kind of work is easier for a gal. No pressure to work a soul-less job just for the money, or certainly not the same as the dudes get.
Then why do women make up all of 1% of Hollywood directors? :)
and...in the history of the Academy Awards, only 3 females have been nominated for Best Director:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Directing
"No female director has ever won this award, and only three (Jane Campion, Sofia Coppola, and Lina Wertmuller) have ever been nominated."
Hollywood and Independent are widely different animals.
...You are speaking of positions of power, they are always tilted towards men, in every industry. And I speak strictly from a desi perspective.
Most desi independent filmmakers, in particular those that have succeeded in the documentary form... are indeed women, like here and here. Both of whom have husbands that bring home the bacon.
No pressure to work a soul-less job just for the money, or certainly not the same as the dudes get.
Well, there's an easy solution to that, you know. If men can just be content with staying home all the time, there would be no pressure.
No worries. I'm sure there's a sugar momma for you right aroud the corner, HMF.
If anyone's going to seriously contest that the desi community puts significantly more pressure on males to work stable, lucrative jobs, that's some serious, bonafide, Cleopatra of denial going on.
Why the desi community in particular? I think the premise applies to men at large, and I think the pressure is real.
But I also think it's self-fulfilling, to an extent. It's up to men not to give in to the demands and pressures and try something different.
Women feel the pressure too, although to a lesser degree and in a different way. I mean, think of the amount of time and money a woman spends on her education. To chuck it all and say "I'm cool, I have a guy who brings home the bacon" is really not easy at all.
Well... as far as bringing income in, staying at home and documentary filmmaking are more or less equivalent.
I'm working on making myself enough of an asshole to get one, oh you may think I'm already there, but I've got a ways to go to erase the good natured, nice, polite person I am. Here's a start, the opening line I use.
Because, the pressure to wed someone by a certain time is stronger in the desi community.
See? when this kind of logic is applied to other problems women face, like say, choosing bad relationship partners, it's met with 'you poopy mcpoopface! why do you blame the victim!'
A significantly lesser degree.
I know a woman who spent 100,000+ dollars on a Cornell education. She's married to a finacial tax type guy who clears 2 million a year. They have homes in princeton and the upper east side of manhattan. she teaches ballet to children, very fulfulling work if you ask me, but no where near enough to cover her incurred loans.
From what I gather, she doesn't have too much problem sleeping at night.
Yo! Sugar Momma's are awesome - just hard to find! Bring home the bacon woman, I'll get back to ma video game.
HMF..the financial tax guy is he particularly handsome? Is the women gorgeous? If the answer is no and yes....then his money and her looks are the fulcrum of that relationship...I mean whats a few college loans between lovers? :)
I just saw it on TV here in Bangalore - quite serendipitously, after noting the mention here during work-time feedscanning, and Shalini's short was awesome. It was clearly ahead of the others in style and 'maturity', for lack of a film-education enhanced vocab. The voting thingie throws up an error right now, but I'm gonna try later for sure.
Congratulations. You just defined the terms of prostitution. Albeit, over a longer period of time.
She's married to a finacial tax type guy who clears 2 million a year.
I think 2 million a year colors the situation somewhat. I was thinking more of the scenario where the spouses have approximately equal earning potential, but the expectation is that the wife will quit her (possibly lucrative) job and stay home. There's never an expectation that the husband could do that instead, since the net loss of income is around the same.
This scenario frequently comes into play when children arrive, and most women do it voluntarily. Personally, I'd be more than happy to quit and engage in more fulfilling work. (teaching, filmmaking, non-profit, etc...)
"and Michael Bay, the guest judge who directed “Transformers”, agrees with me..."
Anna: Shalu :) is the bomb diggy but I can't condone Michael Bay in any way...cause he made Bumblebee INTO A CAMARO! WTF!
...and by the way, many women spend time on going to good schools, and moving to big cities, for the sole purposes of finding 'bacon providers'....
"I'd be more than happy to quit and engage in more fulfilling work. (teaching, filmmaking, non-profit, etc...)"
So you would be more than willing to prostitute yourself for some willing deep pocketed ladki :) willing to let you explore your creative impulses
And you're telling me you wouldn't? (assuming you're male of course)
To give female directors their due, there have been quite a few female documentary filmmakers who have been nominated for - and won - the Oscar for Best Documentary Feature. Janice Loeb was the first to be nominated for "The Quiet One" in 1948. Nancy Hamilton was the first to win for "Helen Keller in Her Story" in 1955. Earliest this year, three of the five documentary nominees were directed or co-directed by women.
Best Foreign Language film is an award handed out to the director. Two female directors have won in this category, Marleen Gorris for Antonia's Line (1995) and Caroline Link for Nowhere in Africa (2002). I'm not sure how many films directed by women have been nominated.
"And you're telling me you wouldn't?"
No I'm an artist and I make in a month what most doctors make in a year. 7 years ago; different story.
This scenario frequently comes into play when children arrive, and most women do it voluntarily
Sure, but why don't more men volunteer to be stay-at-home dads? I mean, they're parents too, so why do they limit their own responsibilities to just bringing the bacon home? If the wife makes more money (even marginally more), doesn't it make more sense for the husband to be the stay-at-home parent? You hardly ever see this scenario because men never allow themselves to be content with staying at home.
...and by the way, many women spend time on going to good schools, and moving to big cities, for the sole purposes of finding 'bacon providers'....
Yes, yes...I believe it's called getting the Mrs degree at college. I personally don't know any women (desi or otherwise) who went to school looking for bacon providers.
"I personally don't know any women (desi or otherwise) who went to school looking for bacon providers."
Hema, desi women might have it easier in that if they chose to marry desi their man will most likely have some $$$ anyways...So following mommy, daddys advice and marrying early would pay off...she would not have to hunt for bacon providers..one would be arranged for her.
You've completely strayed from the point. The scenario with children and the need for someone to "stay at home" at all is completely irrelevent. From what I've observed, women voluntarily take part time jobs to stay at home when their children are young, irrespective of what jobs they've had before. They do so not because their husbands staunchly folded their arms and said, "I'm not quitting!"
I was talking about proclivities towards and social pressures towards doing work for the sole purpose of earning money, and that, my friend, clearly falls on the male. Women can engage in all varieties of work without this nagging need to earn money hovering over their heads. Of course, they can choose to sell out all they want, no doubt.
I think the ideas of women relying on their husbands financially is beginning to lose a bit of traction. It's definitely still the prevailing thought, and according to NYT, women at "elite law schools" are attending mostly to earn their MRS, but I do think there's a growing expectation among younger generations that income earning capacity should be shared and that child-rearing should be shared.
I only know 2 stay at home dads, and it's interesting how sometimes the underlying assumption there is that the gender roles within a relationship have to flip as well. I've rarely met a couple who manages to balance things and maintain some kind of power parity in the home as well.
You've completely strayed from the point.
How is that? I thought the point (at least my point) was that the pressure men feel to continue working is entirely self-inflicted. They could certainly opt for the allegedly pressure-free lives that women seem only too ready to choose, according to you.
From what I've observed, women voluntarily take part time jobs to stay at home when their children are young, irrespective of what jobs they've had before
From what I've observed, it's not quite as "voluntary" as you're suggesting. Part of the equation does revolve around whether the husband is also willing to adopt a more flexible work schedule, which (in my anecdotal observation) doesn't really happen.
I'll agree that for many women, marrying for money may be an option of last resort.. but it's still an option. I can't begin to tell you how many women I've met that take all kinds of risks with career, life, whatever, and end the discussion with, "if it doesn't work out. I'll marry rich" Obviously, its a tongue in cheek remark, but it wouldn't be humorous, if that 'marryable rich' didn't exist in the first place. That's the point Im trying to make here.
but it wouldn't be humorous, if that 'marryable rich' didn't exist in the first place. That's the point Im trying to make here.
The thing is, there are clearly women out there who are making a ton of money, so "marrying rich" is also an option for many men now. That's my point...that you don't have to feel that pressure to earn a lot of money if you don't want to.
Yes, and you use the specific case of child-rearing (which occurs post marriage) , when my point was decisions men and women make pre-marriage, or pre-LTR for that matter.
I'm with hema on the "men at home" argument :) A lot of the pressure in this is also that most jobs do not offer the flexibility that parents need to be able to decrease their hours and share responsibilities. There's all sorts of worries around losing your benefits, not making ends meet, etc., etc.
Same! I think folks aren't looking for their MRS (at least in metro areas) in college. Some are still looking for it at the grad school level. I think "many" is an overcharacterization.Don't worry HMF. I know guys out there who are leading the life you describe with their sugar mama's by their sides. Not saying it's common, just saying it's possible. I think it would be (a bit) easier for men to have this option if women were paid equally and promoted equally as well. Oooo, like how I slipped in the gender (wage) gap, there?
Maybe it's a generational thing, but I meet plenty of women who are absolutely turned off by the idea of a huge income earner type if the work that person is doing isn't really contributing to the social good. Especially among the public interest women (e.g. non profits, teaching, the arts). Nearly all of them have dated, and preferred, men who have similar career interests (and usually smaller salaries) because they feel like they have more in common. Again, this is just anecdotal so absolutely not generalizable, but I think there are pockets where attitudes are changing a bit.
Yes, and you use the specific case of child-rearing (which occurs post marriage) , when my point was decisions men and women make pre-marriage
I don't think that changes the scenario all that much. Surely, if all a man wants out of life is to live in luxury and not work at some boring, unfulfilling job, that option is available to him. That he chooses not to exploit that opportunity is completely his own problem.
I think members of our generation have expanded their thinking enough to realize that artistic and entrepreneurial pursuits are important. However, our parents still exert a very strong influence on our way of thinking at times. I know someone in a very long term relationship who is pursuing his dream of starting his own company, successful to a point but it has a lot of growth ahead and it's going to take time and financial resources to make it a successful venture. His partner has however said that he must abandon all that and get a 9 to 5 job if he wants to be with her. I dont' doubt that much of that comes from her parents. My own story, I'm within the next year starting my own firm and at the same time feeling the pressure from my parents (but not in a negative way, they've been patient to the hilt). The thing is I told them that unless I find someone who's willing to understand my vision and be supportive of it, I'm going to wait until I've reached the level I'm at. I think HMF's point is that if you look at the way our society is, you see guys mostly in serious but mindless pursuits because most women won't give them the time of day if they were starving artists with ambition. I'm not saying all women are like that but that's usually the case. But on the other hand, most of the successful desi filmmakers are usually women with husbands who support them. If anyone can point out an example to the contrary, it'd be interesting to see that.
I dunno if this is true. or as true. The rich women I know, want men who are at least in the same ballpark. Not that they need the money, they just use it as an indicator of "success" or "power" or "drive" or whatever buzzword happens to be floating in their heads at the time. And in the desi community, the pressure for men to make $$ has been socialized over generations.. a few rich b**ches won't change the mindset overnight.
ding ding ding. and the converse is not nearly true.
Oh, I forgot to mention (speaking of "marrying on the level"), wasn't there an article in the NYT that said men prefer to marry women below their professional or income-earning level, whereas women want someone on their own level? Makes me wonder about the guy must provide concept.
"I think HMF's point is that if you look at the way our society is, you see guys mostly in serious but mindless pursuits because most women won't give them the time of day if they were starving artists with ambition.."
Global Sanskrit this is very true. But take heart the white chicks love ambitious artists...you just have to endure death cab for cutie on auto repeat when your making out LOL!
You're gonna tell me that desi attitudes don't equate child-rearing/raising = women? Give me a break. If you bring children into the picture, and are speaking about post-marital issues, it completely removes it from the dynamic I was speaking about.
I'm talking about decisions people make pre.
You're gonna tell me that desi attitudes don't equate child-rearing/raising = women?
No, I'm saying that if the above is true, then how is the decision to rear children "voluntary", as you suggested earlier? Obviously, women are under a lot of pressure to conform to gender roles. But as with men, this pressure is self-inflicted too. It's as if the women are thinking "oh, if I keep my job and put my kid in daycare, everyone will say I'm a bad mother", even though kids who go to daycare grow up just fine and the women aren't bad mothers at all!
In a similar vein, there's no reason a guy can't make the decision to marry a woman who has a decent job, and engage in whatever pursuit makes him happy, as a pre-marriage decision.
HMF, basically for a desi guy looking to pursue his own personal ambitions, he's on his own and should know that. It's a tough road. I think the other problem is that a lot of us are always starving for validation from the greater community. It's the whole uncle/aunty syndrome that your parents feed you when you're growing up. Once you break free of that need for validation from our own community, it should come from yourself. M. Night Shyamalan is a very good example of that. I was at the SAJA conference years ago and a reporter from some small desi media publication tried trashing him by saying that he only provides interviews to major publications and doesn't pay attention to the South Asian ones. Someone retorted back that maybe it's because he doesn't feel like he owes a debt to South Asian society. He's a success because of his own talent and drive, not because of the South Asian community. Nagesh Kukunoor gave a speech at some South Asian professionals meeting in Atlanta after filming "Hyderabad Blues" and before it's release. He stated that being a desi filmmaker is the hardest thing to do because everyone turns against you, especially your family and their community. He said that in our society, he felt like being a filmmaker was only slightly ranked above the social standing of a prostitute. He said it with humor but it's a point to be taken. When we see successful South Asian artists, we love to celebrate them and claim them as our own but when you see South Asian artists who are broke, struggling, and finding their way, we tend to look at them as losers who need to find a real job and the whole "don't you want to get married one day?" question always comes from the uncles and aunties.
"When we see successful South Asian artists, we love to celebrate them and claim them as our own but when you see South Asian artists who are broke, struggling, and finding their way, we tend to look at them as losers who need to find a real job and the whole "don't you want to get married one day?" question always comes from the uncles and aunties. "
Global Sankskrit can I commission you to write my biography?
Seriously, I dunno, I don't mean to be rude, but saying that a man's career choice is completely his own 'fault', and not in some way a product of social pressure - particularly in a desi context where our parents only valued of 2 or 3 professions (doctor/engineer/etc..), to me, is just as absurd as saying a woman's relationship choice is completely her fault devoid of any external pressures.
They should write books. Better yet, have them email me
saying that a man's career choice is completely his own 'fault', and not in some way a product of social pressure - particularly in a desi context where our parents only valued of 2 or 3 professions (doctor/engineer/etc..)
I think the pressure is real, but succumbing to it is something people do have control over...as opposed to whining about how women who want to have interesting (but non-lucrative) careers have it so much easier.
If a trend is going to change, then somebody has to be willing to change it. Men (and desi men especially) can't just keep blaming societal pressure all the time, especially considering that (unlike women), they have not been subject to systematic social pressure, wage depression, gender discrimination in schools and workplace, etc.
Maybe if I see examples of women (desi in particular) who actually look at a guy who's penniless but pursuing, not in completely negative light, this argument might hold water. But as I said in #76, even rich women tend to prefer men that are at least in the same financial ballpark.
As for M. Night Shyamalan, both his parents were eye-surgeons, he lived in a posh-philly suburb. His parents funded his first film "Praying with Anger" I'm not discounting his risk taking, and the 'middle finger' he received from the desi community at large. But his parents, his mom in particular was very much behind him, especially as his career blossomed, and from what i know, never had to deal with abject poverty.
I agree, just as long as you don't deny the truth of the latter.
HMF props on knowing 'Praying With Anger' not too many folks know about Night's first film. I've been trying to get a copy for years.
Hahaha, HMF, I will send the next available high-earning sugar mama friend of mine your way :)
Global Sanskrit, thanks! I've really enjoyed reading what you've provided, so far. I wonder if desi writers feel similarly?
I don't think it's entirely fair to say that men make their own beds and then lie in them. There are a LOT of external policies, pressures, etc., which shape our choices. Not even the ones we make, but the ones that are even available to us.
Now, I am just wondering aloud, so please take this with a grain of salt. Sometimes I wonder if desi women have a bit more leeway to pursue their interests (even though that does not necessarily mean they'll be hired/recognized, etc.) because their work is so heavily discounted, as well. Not only that aunties/uncles think the guy should be the provider, but that further still even if you do work it is a "hobby" or something that isn't to be taken seriously. I hear this allll the time from the auntie/uncle crew - that my career isn't really that important because when I get married (a required assumption) I should rely on my husband, and then I can work "for fun." Definitely not the attitude I have towards my own work, but it's interesting that people think of (desi) women's work as a pastime or diversion as opposed to recognizing that we are entitled to have careers of our own as well. Hmmm..
glass houses, what kind of art do you do?
Maybe if I see examples of women (desi in particular) who actually look at a guy who's penniless but pursuing, not in completely negative light, this argument might hold water
I agree that it's a rare thing, especially in the desi community. I suppose it goes with my earlier proposition about women being attracted to success (which correlates, at least indirectly, with money).
I only know of one example where a desi woman I know married a guy who didn't have a steady income, but was very committed to a non-traditional career (as a classical musician). He was really very talented, and she probably thought he had really good prospects. He hasn't hit big time yet, but he probably will, and they seem pretty happy with the choice they made.
There is something of a trend here with NRI films vs Desi films. Deepa Mehta's films as well as the short film this post is talking about, tend to portray poverty and ignorance in village life a lot ... more ethnic, more village stories. However Bollywood seems to be trying to get as far away from the village as possible - every other movie is shot in NY, Sydney, London or Switzerland. The Western-rich feeling is what is typical of most Bollywood movies, while moving stories like 'Water' get hardly any recognition in India.
Any theories for this trend ?
@82 Global Sanskrit - Very well said. Once we liberate ourselves from the whole pressure of Uncles/Aunties/When are you getting married/ network, only then can a desi really do what he feels like doing. I am pretty sure that Night Shyamalan didn't get whole-hearted support from his desi uncles/aunties at the time he was getting into film ... and it is very possible that he feels he owes the SA community close to nothing at all for the success in his career.
Definitely not the attitude I have towards my own work, but it's interesting that people think of (desi) women's work as a pastime or diversion as opposed to recognizing that we are entitled to have careers of our own as well.
Agreed. The view that a woman's career is expendable seems to be pretty pervasive among desis, whether here or in the desh.
Now, ladies, will you stop jabbering and run along and make me some lunch?
I've seen it, it's not that great, but cost somewhere in the half million range, a big chunk of change around 1992.
I also know about spike lee's first film, "Bed Sty - we cut heads" that won an award , I also know about the tuffle spikee lee caused at NYU when he wanted to do a film on a black character hired to rewrite "birth of a Nation" when the NYU heads thought he was committing blasphemy by toying with the father of film, DW Griffith.
I agree with this, and I'll say it's discounted not because they feel the inherent work is 'useless' rather it's discounted because it doesn't yield high income.
Peculiar enough, this success = money, even indirectly, somehow only applies to the female --> male attraction direction.
"Agreed. The view that a woman's career is expendable seems to be pretty pervasive among desis, whether here or in the desh"
Yup, but it is definitely on it's way out. Us desis in our 20's/30's might face the heat from Uncles/Aunties in the community, but at least the number of desi men in their 20's/30's who will *want* a stay-at-home wife, and desi women who would *want* to be housewives, at least from my personal experience, is very low.
"glass houses, what kind of art do you do?"
Camille, I paint; my work has been described as "looming Rothkos brawling with ambiguous Twombleys seeking light"...I took it as praise.
"but cost somewhere in the half million range.."
Night's parents gave him half a mil?!!
Shyamalan also released "Wide Awake" in 1998. Also a flop. But privileged upbringing aside, he persevered and then released "Sixth Sense".
Shalini has the best name eva!
Yup. My mom has told me many times that I should have kids so I can stop working and stay at home. I love her so I don't take her too seriously, but it would definitely be acceptable for me to stay at home vs. my husband.
It was up there, don't remember the exact figure, but they're from Radnor/Conshohocken - to live in those areas its like a requirement to wipe your ass with $20's
agree with this, and I'll say it's discounted not because they feel the inherent work is 'useless' rather it's discounted because it doesn't yield high income.
That's not necessarily true. Most women in the 20s and 30s now make as much money as men of the same age, so the women's careers are discounted, it can't be because of income. I mean, I've seen desi aunties and uncles take the "she's just working for fun" approach, even when the she in question is a physician...where there is at least potential for high income.
A desi filmmaker with a love for HHTDL, hip-hop and non-profits? Plus she reps Brooklyn? (Lick shots!) I think I'm in love...
I think somewhere along with Sonia. Hell I've worked since I was 17 but getting married and children is a whole other ballgame. I hate to say it but single people love to theorize in anger about how things are in society and how they should be but when you actually start living that life it's a whole other ballgame. Theories are good on paper and sometimes during arguments on the web but at the end of the day I don't know a single working mom who wouldn't love to stay at home and take care of her kids, nor do I know a single guy who's pulling in decent income who'd want his wife to sit at home and raise the kids. We have so much cultural baggage we make a lot of assumptions about how things are and how they should be and personally for me I've had to eat a lot of my own words about theories I had about relationships.
I find the "sugardaddy" notion super irritating. If I was disabled tomorrow I'd make a decent living of Social Security. I've worked hard and contributed a lot of money to the government to earn that. I have no qualms about staying at home and contributing to my home and family if my husband was making enough money to cover my salary. The aunty world made a lot of (positive) comments about my fiance who is a doctor but hello people forget that I inherited the boy's loans too. I had none! Things aren't as black and white as we always wish them to be.
Camille mentioned the discounting in the same context I had:
That is, pursuit of more interesting, but less lucrative work. If she (and you) are saying the work is discounted simply because it comes from a person owning a vagina, then it still doesn't conflict with my point of males having more pressure to stay away from that type of work.
Look I understand women face discrimination in the workplace, and societal pressure to rear-children, etc.. but none of that contravenes my central point.
I disagree--I know working moms who do it by choice, because they want to work, even thought they could afford to stay home, and stay at home moms who do it because they can't afford daycare on two salaries, but would like to go back to work when they can.
And they can afford to stay at home because someone else is covering they ass. While the discussion of working vs. stay at home is an interesting one, the original point was "working for money vs working for 'passion'"
So while this chick Shalini seems to be doing well, I hope she's at least aware that society's clamps weren't as tight on her as they would be on a guy.
HMF, what, exactly, is the logic of this statement? is it that women are to not put enough emphasis on their careers because they can expect that just at around the time they should start earning a salary, they will find a nice, wealthy man who will marry them and save them from work? not a single one of my girlfriends has ever counted on a man in terms of money. the same goes for my female law school classmates. i am almost 30, and choosing law has greatly to do with the fact that i do not, nor want to, have the luxury of relying on a man for my financial well-being. and my parents - with 2 daughters and a son - are concerned about our careers equally in terms of financial stability. this is so amongst almost all the desi parents i know.
also, i specifically do not want to rely on a man's money or skills because i have seen personally what it does to the balance amongst partners - even my mother would agree that not gettng a college degree or starting a career of her own had a drastic impact on her relationship with my father.
Society's clamps are only as tight as you allow them to be. If you conform to society that is your choice. Sure there may be pressure from parents and family but part of being an adult is making difficult choices.
I don't think it's as one-sided as you make it seem. Men claim they would love to have a sugar momma, but the minute you bring on a women as or more successful then they are, they can't deal with it.
Umm, did you bother to read any of the follow up messages? It's that in the desi community in particular, women do not have the kind of pressures men have to work soulless, empty, boring jobs that pay well., Sure, they can if they want to, and if they do, they'll face gender biases in the workplace etc.. etc.. but there's a leeeway of choice (and maybe that's connected to a general 'discounting' of women's work in general) associated with what a woman can do, women are not raised in most desi households with the underlying message of, "go to school, work hard, get a good job and never leave it, because you'll need a stable job, once you get married"
Read #70
Please. If we're going to acknowledge the power of society's clamps on female behavior and choices, then it applies the same for males. We're all human. I understand the need for men to resist conformity, all im saying is in this particular instance our power of resistance must be greater
Thank you for proving my point, you've equated success = sugar. But it's not your fault, it's what you've been conditioned to do.
All I want is a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
i guess this is really where we differ, because i would say the exact opposite.
rahul - i think you don't have to do too much to prove that. but money does save you from certain worries - does that make you slightly happy?
I don't blame you, the guy's a hack - The Island, Armageddon, Pearl Habor, etc.
No comment on Shalini, didn't see the clip yet.
Huh?!? You'd say that desi culture teaches women they will grow up to become familial breadwinners, that they should focus their energies on earning stable incomes, irrespective of what their personal ambitions are? Does this bizarro-desi culture also have a history of male foeticide and "eve-teasing"?
That should be adam-teasing, no?
when we were talking about society, i thought we meant desi society in the states - and yes, i would say that desi parents generally push their kids to become financially stable in their careers (desi parents' mentality - not mine - generally equates money with success), regardless of gender. most aunties i know work full-time, many in lucrative jobs, so they obviously wouldn't teach their daughters differently. and while the desi parents all complain about their kids not getting married, or having kids, nobody expresses a desire that they must do this at the expense of their careers.
in india, i agree the situation is different, but even now it is changing, particularly in larger cities like bomay and delhi. some women may take breaks, but it doesn't seem to completely derail their careers.
I caught it right after I clicked submit..
That's not the question I asked.
It's a profoundly unrealistic and outlying view if you honestly believe desi culture in the states (which is not much different than desi culture in India, as most parents grew up in India) places men and women on equal footing when it comes to expected earning power. (Mind you, that may be what's actually occurring, but it doesn't correlate with expectation)
If you honestly believe your average desi parents will say to a woman in her mid to late 20s, "no no, don't get married yet, wait until you have a stable job" or " no no don't getmarried , wait until you get that promotion, otherwise your school and time spent will be a waste" you're surely living in some bizarro world I've never heard about. I'd be interested to see if anyone else can corroborate this point of view, or at least elucidate it.
I meant discounted both culturally and financially because we have vaginas :) Even high income earning women, on average, make much less than their male counterparts. And of course it's generally worse for women of color. I don't know if anyone breaks wage gap studies down to the desi level, but that would be interesting as well. Additionally, I think work done in the home is incredibly discounted as well. Hellloooo "hidden economy." That is another topic, though.
I guess my point is not so much that women have it easier or anything like that, but I do see a bit of HMF's rationale for fewer social constraints in the desi community for women. We're not all given an equal playing field to succeed in our pursuits, but because desi women's work is so often labeled as a "cute pastime" we're also allowed a little more leeway in our cuteness. That said, it is annoying as all hell, and the assumption that you're going to get married so someone else will provide for you is also frustrating. Again, maybe it's generational, but this "leeway" is confining in other ways.
Rahul, I'll queue you up after HMF for the sugar mama train ;)
On a somewhat related topic, I read an article recently that talked about the lack of diversity in the nonprofit sector - low pay seemed to be the key factor driving out men and minority groups. Except in high-paying executive positions, which still have a glass ceiling, people working in nonprofits tend to be overwhelmingly female. Of course it was a survey, not empirical study, but one reason was that women were more often able to rely on another person's income to supplement theirs. Yes, there could also be consideration that women are more likely to choose social services, but that theory loses some credibility when you see that the higher-paying leadership positions are still majority male.
but if their sons and daughters in roughly similar amounts go into highly lucrative positions - ibanking, law, medicine - of course they expect their children to command equal earning potential. within these fields, the desi people i know are roughly equal in terms of their gender composition. and desi parents here push their sons and daughters equally to choose financially lucrative fields. i know one uncle who prides himself on the fact that his daughter makes more as a lawyer than i do, and that his daughter makes more than his friend's son who is also a doctor.
for the record, i am in my late twenties, and my parents told me that they think it's not the right time for me to be thinking about marriage, because i'm only just starting my career. would they have wanted me married earlier? of course. but that's not exactly the path my academics and career have taken. the one time i mentioned that i might not pursue a career in law my dad went ballistic - specifically pointing to the amount of time and money i would have wasted in academics. and i have plenty of desi friends who have similar experiences.
Thanks, Camillionaire!
because desi women's work is so often labeled as a "cute pastime" we're also allowed a little more leeway in our cuteness
That's true, and to add to that, the fact that women don't feel as much pressure to be breadwinners can sometimes be a blessing in disguise. I went to law school as a "second career" student and I didn't take out any student loans. I know I couldn't have done that if it wasn't for the fact that I was married and didin't have to worry about rent or food.
If I was a guy, giving up a decent job to be a dirt-poor married student might have given me a bit more pause.
I think you can say that, because it's something you've had. Sort of like the millionaire that proudly proclaims "money isn't everything"
But you can't have your cake and eat it too. The leeway goes hand in hand with the socially accepted option of marrying a man for financial security, even if that option is last ditch, #5534 on the list, right below selling your body for money, it's still an option, and it's still socially accepted, and that simply can't be swept away.
I thought we weren't talking about satisfaction, but about success. See what I did, purposely colliding multiple threads of conversation into one apocalyptic explosive reflexive comment here? Okay, I made the second point because subtlety isn't my strong suit. You know, like Michael Bay. Should I stop talking now?
Camille, that's such an adorable comment.
Ak,
your personal experiences are extremely out of the ordinary. Even camille and hema have ack'd my point to a certain degree, that this type of disparity exists.
This is not necessarily true. Read camille's 'cuteness'
This is seriously bizarro. I'd need to verify your parent's Indian passports and birth certificates. I can't imagine this coming out of parents born and raised in India. Unless it was one of those isolated crystaline structures (you know, like Superman had at the end of Superman 2 that protected him from the Kryptonian rays?)
The most liberal of liberal desi parents I know would be convulsing if their daughter wasn't married or at least very strongly going in that direction by their late 20s. And their daughter could be curing cancer (or defending the guy who did, from a malpractice suit)
Believe it my friend, they do exist. I'm one of the lucky ones, I never had the marriage conversation with my parents nor do they give me a guilt trip about it.
Well, then they must also arrive to Indian functions on time, and also stand single file while waiting to board an Air India flight.
But Zen, even you agree that it's a severe, severe outlier.
Yes, based on all the stories I've heard from others, I would believe they're outliers.
And yes, my dad actually shows up EARLY to events and wonders what's wrong with everyone else :)
I don't think ak and Zen are that out there in their experiences. That said, I don't feel that that is the prevailing attitude among desis in the U.S. Definitely more common now than it had been in the past, but I think the "push your daughter into marriage by 30" crowd still constitutes at least 51% of the desi parent crowd.
Anecdotally... the thing is, even among "cool" parents (who don't do the pressure thing) I find that the aunties/uncles are UNBEARABLE. For every cool desi elder there are like 5 aunties/uncles lined up going "are you getting married? are you getting married? are you getting married?" Drives me INSANE.
I've usually found a response of "No, are you?" puts an end to the conversation. Or at least a damper.
No, it's tough all around, but it's easier if you start earlier than later, And women don't have the barriers men do to start on this path earlier.
And likewise, let's not completely demonize this either. Yes I understand lots of women take offense, and want to make sure to rub every male's face in the ground that questions their earning capacity.
But there are a lot of women who do take on artist lifestyles, or make career shifts for this very reason. I knew a lady, who at 30, quit her high paying job to start her own graphic design company, when her income dropped from 100,000 annually to ~10,000 annually - believe me, she wasn't "bemoaning the fact that someone else was supporting her" then.
HMF, i concede that some people in society do dismiss women's capabilities and careers as somehow less important than those of their male counterparts. i also have to say that some women do take advantage of this leeway. in many ways, though, i see rather a more equalization of society's expectations from their members, irregardless of gender, while women themselves are choosing to revert back to a more family-friendly lifestyle. but i can't say this has always been at the expense of career - e.g. many women doctors choose specializations that allow both a flexible schedule and lucrative salary, like dermatology.
my parents are the real (brown) deal. and their friends are actually quite similar to them. we also have an abnormal amount of late twenties-aged desis (female and male) in our social circle. of course, the parents are all trying to find us mates, but to them it's the view that now that we are somewhat settled professionally, it's time to give more focus to the personal life. but there's never any mention of the career giving way for that to happen - i.e. nobody looks at it as a zero-sum game.
my sister just turned 32 yesterday - each year that passes in her unmarried life makes my mother just a little more worried/convulsive about her marital chances. but she has stated that she won't leave boston or her job, and my parents respect this.
So here's my question to you, what do they say when they're questioned by other relatives and friends, because surely if they only mingled with their "cool liberal selves" it'd be a very quick game of poker if you get my meaning.
Do they come to you then? or do they tell them to piss off?
May be an outlier, but my parents are the same. They never once asked me about getting married. Yes, they do also show up on time and stand in a queue but obviously they are not the only ones!
"are you getting married? are you getting married? are you getting married?"
Yes, on Feb. 31 next year. Of course, you're invited, auntie-ji! ;)
But you're Indian!
So, this thread is very confusing. Have we agreed that it is better for women if we are patronizing and condescending to them, or not? Because Justice Kennedy thinks the former. And an old white man can't be wrong about how to treat women.
my parents are notoriously late to desi functions, but yes, are law-abiding air travel passengers, and definitely arrive on time for the check-in
at the last function i went to, i had the dubious honour of having introduced the couple who were being engaged, and was even made to stand-up during the 'how i met my fiancee' speech in a room of 400 people. needless to say, all the aunties and uncles congratulated me on this 'good deed' but not without pressing me on my own marital pursuits. my parents are different from the rest of their family in india, so yes, i do have to hear the lamentation whenever i visit, but i take it in stride. i also get it from even liberal aunties and uncles, because, quite frankly, every parent wants to see their children married. sometimes i get annoyed, but only depending on the way they ask the question. usually i tell them the truth : i just have not found anybody yet.
Ha. I used to do that, but it didn't dampen the Flaming Aunties* enough. So I just give them a cryptic smile and say "I'm already married....to the sea."
And then I walk away swiftly, because most of them don't know what that means.
*in the ardor sense, not the Sapphic
Alright. look whatever, I'm not going to question peoples personal experiences here.. but everyone I know, and everyone they know and everyone they know, have always had a view that men are expected to have stable, provider jobs, while women have more leeway in making choices, with the obvious subtext being, "they don't need to make as much money, they can if they want. but they don't need to."
My uncle has a son and daughter, I asked him if his children had chosen film as a career path what would his reaction be. He says, "if it was my son, I'd say no, if it was my daughter, I'd be ok with it"
If your parents are superdesis with a big red 'S' on their chest flying through the socializations that afflict the rest of us, kudos, however, they interact with us mortals all the time. And most of us have to deal with this b*llshit on a frequent, if not daily basis.
And ust so all you desiguffins get snippy on baoji and biji and your desi roots, I wanted to introduce you to a hack who's recently been in local news for her inanities.
you can read her bleatings here. She is untalented in spades. Like. She makes madonna look like Tolstoy. But, she's a looker, and Hubby is a partner in a law firm in the oilpatch. Heck. Read the woman's blog. And before you call me out as a misogynist, talented people line up to get published once with a 500 word article in the G&M. This woman has a weekly. What's the deal here? She must be either supremely gifted in her charms or connected like a mf to get published in the topp canadian mags. I'm not alone in thinking this. She's got a whole parody of her web site here. Then again it may be a Hinjew thing.
But I'm not complaining. It's good to be a guy. But fun thread.
rahul, like j. kennedy, i also prefer the former. if only because it gives me the chance to brush up on those rusty tae kwon do skills i knew would come in handy one day.
one boyfriend actually posed the hypothetical as to whether i would quit law school (and, apparently, any chance of following my career dreams) if he asked me to marry him.
ak, your immorality shocks me!
Beats me. Maybe Shalini can make a movie about a desi guy passively-aggressively to become something just for the money, and chronicle the internal contradiction he faces every day, then compound that with bullshit marriage pressure. Hey, it can be verite.
career "dreams" to be a lawyer?? Gosh you are an outlier.
then surely you must be disappointed to know that sexual, or any other kind of, contact was not an option that night?
Not even some foot play?
ak,
kyongo-hana.
HMF, it actually was a dream, ever since i was a child. but then i got to law school and absolutely hated it, and almost dropped out. i only stuck it out because i had no other career options. then i decided to do a tax law degree and i've sort of moved away from the typical law jobs i abhor, and into a realm that actually excites me and isn't leaving me starving. so i guess it worked out. but yeah - law as a dream career - no idea what, or whether, i was thinking.
gentlemen, i am not an inherently violent person. did he deserve the foot play? most definitely. but the law student in me resisted the possibility of being charged for assault. also, i found the withholding of sex (and other forms of communication) to be far more painful in that instance.
ak, you've silenced the male constituency with your response.
I think it should be noted that this thread didn't end up in a 'hot-or-not' controversy...and we're past 150 comments now...and the girl is good-looking (had to throw that last one in there).
rahul, are you challenging the logic of my decision? or just surprised that that even was the logic?
Anyway, not to discount this girls chops, but the choosing 50 out of 12,000 or whatever it is, is not any kind of big deal really. A friend of mine was on the review committee for a few major film festivals, most of what they get is liquid shit, just some kid with a $300 handicam taping himself lipsynching a rod stewart song. The ratio is probably more like 50 selected out of 200-300 quality films or something like that - which is still applaudable, no doubt.
No, not challenging anything at all! I was just joking that most males will concur that any withholding (that must me a tax lawyer joke, right?) is far more painful than a kick to the head.
just being cheeky, rahul - of course i know it's far more painful - that's why i did it! a guy cannot make that kind of a comment and expect to get away with it lightly. thankfully, i don't have to use that method often, but it's always there as an option, isn't it?
I wonder why guys don't try manipulation by withholding more often. I mean, granted women are more resistant to this sort of thing, but it might work.
I want one of you to try it and report back here with your results.
I do it every day. It's a miracle I get from home to work without being mauled.
-duck-
I do it every day.
Of course, but I mean in a situation where there is a possibility of sex in the first place...
Are you saying it sex to be me?
hema, I think that would be hilarious. I also kind of wonder if it really wouldn't help the cause? :)
i wonder, it, too. but perhaps it might not be as painful to some women for it to be effective enough all the time? i generally think whether two people will have sex depends on the both of them, but when, in general, is left up to the women. this is mostly because men want sex all the time (although some women are also up for it as frequently). i could be wrong, but i think this disparity means that the tool is not equally effective going both ways. also, men would lose out - so it's more self-punishment than anything, really.
is this serious? this girl's movie was trite and terrible, and her first one was worse. "be yourself" -- even that dumb woman judge pwn3d her for that hackneyed nonsense. let's be discriminating and not just back random indian people with no talent, eh? how bout it!
she said the tool is not equally effective going both ways. he he.
Rahul you beat me to the Beavis and Butthead joke...
rahul, as i typed it, i knew it could be mis-interpreted. thanks for not disappointing.
Oh, I've never disappointed. If you know what I mean.
clearly, you are proof positive of the subject of the most recent post.
It might be true that bigger ain't better, but just because I'm better doesn't mean I ain't bigger. Don't they teach modus ponens and techniques of argument in law school?
they do, but i was going with the general result indicated in the study that women just don't care about penis size - so you wouldn't disappoint, regardless. ok, actually, you might disappoint in non-penis related aspects, but that's another discussion. but sorry to have implied anything negative about your size - i hope it did not result in any 'anxiety.'
What? Me? Anxious? Never!
...
Why should I be? Did somebody tell you something I should know about? Ok, why are you smirking then? Huh? Huh?
I lobby for this as an appropriate organization technique for all parts of life.
For example, in today's nightly news, Charlie Gibson (or Katie Couric, for the 2 people who watch her) can start: We first begin our worldwide coverage with penis related news. And when all the heavy stuff is done, can go "In other non-penis rated news, ...".
Her movie was the best out of the five. Could any of us have done better with similar constraints and pressure? Could you? I think you're being excessively harsh.
In a non-penis related comment, I have to say that I finally managed to get my browser to show Shalini's video, and much as I wanted to love it, found "Dough" far more creative and funny. Also, I missed the comedic aspect of her short, it seemed more like a documentary.
IT was a documentary, not a comedy. The theme was "The First Time" and not a particular genre.
I disagree. She did an amazing job considering they had 5 days to put it together, including writing, shooting, editing, etc. Plus, they weren't given any money for a budget from network. Let's see you try and do the same. Yeah, I thought so...
...
Why should I be? Rahul, is there something we should know?
Man, I hate blockquote. It keeps unblocking my quotes!
Oh, you don't wanna know what kinda shit they teach in law school...
the penis- vs non-penis-related division would really make things much easier for some guys, huh? a good demarcation as to when to tune out during the news, or in other situations, as the case may be...imagine if people on dates were so open?
i did like dough and her short the best. however, i could have done without the comedian's 'if you don't like your bride, we can burn her' comment - i wouldn't even use that on a desi audience, much less a non-desi one...but i thought hers was the best technically made film, and pretty good on the substance, as well.
Camille, no girl should venture out unprotected onto the big bad web without a reliable quote blocker.
Oh, I didn't get that at all from this page, especially as all the others are comedies. As for the other three, I found Meet the Finkelsteins the lamest. Blind Date was similarly inane, with the most obvious rom-com ending ever. Broken Pipe Dreams had the hilarious red thread/blue thread moment but unfortunately no payoff at all to the goldfish or the ring setup.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/5/29/physicsLabSquatterBannedFromCampus
Shalini K. came to my college to present "A Drop of Life", which I thought was brilliant. I wasn't thrilled about her comedy short, but I'm considering the reality-show competition constraints.
As for the whole side thread about whether women or men artists have it easier - I think it's nonsense, the idea that men have it harder in creative fields, especially when men are often disproportionately rewarded with more fame and success. Yes, of course narrow gender expectations are harsh. Can't disagree with that. However, my parents are definitely NOT cool with me diverging from a math/science oriented career path, and I don't think many parents of daughters in my community in NY who are. And I'm almost completely disinterested in marriage/relationships...I have no plans of seeking dependency on a partner, and I know that I am taking an uncertain path with these factors combined.
The point of my last sentence was to say that I know that I am taking risks. I don't think I have it "easier" because I'm female. Please, check your (whoever argued the point I'm disputing) privilege.
Whoops, I meant, "in my community in NY are".
My pleasure, HRH- don't know what he was thinking, but he's always thinking.
Y'all, the other big change besides a few women making gazillions is that most people are living longer, so even women who do stay home to raise kids-- for hormonal and other reasons, or mostly, alas, because kids are very funny and great entertainment -- there's gonna be more women hitting the big time in what was called old age in the bad old days...
So anyway, I think Shalini is better at social causes and high drama than comedy, apart from those aqua-turquoise fremes.
Glass Houses, you can commission me to write your biography.
The power of reading is so overrated these days. I was speaking about social barriers to entry, particularly in the desi community, read, oh i dunno, any of the messages above?
How many times have you heard the story of a woman that 'wasn't interested' but then they 'met that one guy'....? Either way, read #70
In addition, I'd like to add another dynamic in the crazy world of video and filmmaking. Film is a highly, highly collaborative artform. To produce anything remotely worthwhile, it necessitates the meeting and support of many minds.
Women have a clear advantage in that, they can use their sexuality to gain many favors. This is something women do in every walk of life, but it's quite enunciated, and "milkable" in the world of film, where the quality of your product depends on the effectiveness of your crew.
Remember the line from "K-19: Widowmaker" - The captain says to his crew, "I am your captain, you are my crew. Without me, you are nothing, without you, I am nothing."
One look at this gal, and it's clear that it's not completely outside of her toolset.
Does she know the difference between 2:3:3:2 and 2:3:2:3 cadence? maybe she does, but chances are not. But she can woo a good post-supervisor who does. (Either she or someone else better know it, if she uses the DVX-100B to shoot) Does she know the diff between a cardoid and super cardoid pickup pattern? Or the difference between a DCT-based codec and wavelet based codec? How about setting up an HDV workflow (which requires a conforming process) vs a DVPRO-HD workflow (using P2 cards or firestore drives)? All this is important if she's ever done or wants to do an HD project.
She has titles for her films, but is she intimately familiar with AEP? masks, rotoscoping, keyframing, etc..? I don't want to assume, but chances are...
I'm not ensuing she sleeps with her entire crew - but i've known many a female filmmaker that have gotten locations, actors, post services.. all for zilch, zip, nada, not spending a dime. While guys have to slog for this stuff, many women can parasail through it.
This advantage is not to be discounted either.
HMF, is that you? I almost feel like you've been impersonated by a troll.
Well. There's only two possibilities...
you've respected at least some of my commentary in the past, and see this is as some silly, not-connected-to-reality observation.
or you feel all of my commentary is "not-connected-to-reality" and 'trolling' would be a step-up.
Either way, I do believe this phenomenon is not be discounted here. I went to a Columbia University film panel, where an MFA student was discussing how she had one of the best titler's do her titles for free. I thought to myself, that she looked like Kristen Kreuk, had absolutely nothing to do with that?
HMF, I've never been questioned by the so called nosy aunts and uncles. I'm also not saying they're super liberal, quite the opposite in fact, they're just respectful of the natural order of things and don't meddle. I don't know what happens when they're questioned because I never hear of it. Again, I guess I'm just one of the lucky ones.
liberal = questioning the status quo.
status quo in marital sense = 'meddling'
hence,
liberal (in a desi marital sense) = not meddling
You are. You should walk up and down a busy highway just to see if you can make it through unscathed.
HMF your points regarding aspiring female directors is largely on point...my cutie pie director pals get TONS of stuff for free from camera rentals to locations...but a caveat; there are quite a large number of gay men in power in Hollywood so that evens the field a bit. You seem to be quite deep into cinema. Here's a Night anecdote for ya...Bruce Willis' agent Arnold Rifkin wanted Night kicked off as director of the sixth sense but Night had a pay-for-play with disney..unbelievable given that Night had zero clout at the time.
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, so I'll assume you are, rest assured, the gay twiddle factor has yet to really make a dent. I'll let you know the next time I hear of someone getting a fabulous telecine process fee reduced.
But film is a crazy world, where image matters a helluva lot more than usual. So, it would stand to reason that attractive women (who, have a leg up in many things in general) would have this effect heightened in this world.
I haven't heard this story, but I'm sure Night has gone through a lot of sh*t like this, which is why he's got to hold his ground by being a bit of an asshole. While I think his privileged upbringing contributed to his success A LOT, and his last film was a huge disappointment, I give him respect for the position he's ascended to and maintained.
I took a screenwriting class at NYU and the prof had Night as a screenwriting student back in the day who told me that he wrote 6 different drafts of "Sixth Sense". One of those drafts was recently made into "Invisible".
Whom does a guy have to sleep with to get some respect around here?
Umm. dude, that's a simple case of process of elimination.
Joinging in kinda late on this thread but global sanskrit, HMF etc -
Ang Lee was supported by his wife till his movies started making money.
Every screenwriter working in Hollywood (non-desi mostly and most don't taste success till they are well into their 30s if not 40s) has been supported by their wives while they sat at home and wrote till they sold something and started making money. They weren't sugar mommas, just regular middle class incomes.
In India, a lot of actors, especially from theater were supported by their wives till they started making a regular income acting in the movies like Anupam Kher, Paresh Rawal etc.
And for every one of those, there's an 10 examples of the opposite. See here, I agree this is not indicative of who has it "easier" in a general sense. It's a qualfied statement that I'm making here, but in the arena of taking financial risks, the cream clearly falls on the female, especially in a desi context.
But I must partially retract my statements in #195, according to Shalini's bio, she calls herself a "tech head", of course this could very well mean "girl tech-head" where finding the power button on an iMac puts you well above average. but if she knows the difference between I,B,P frames and compression vs chapter markers. We might have something here.