I’m utterly speechless.
One of YouTube’s commentors tries to explain things -
This is a rite of passage in India. It has not fangs and it’s mouth is sewn shut. Also, it has no constricting force so it’s less dangerous then a dog or cat.
… And discussion on urban-mythbusting website snopes.com seems to concur. Any mutineers have insight here? I mean it’s one thing to teach a baby not to fear *this* snake but rue the day he should start fearing all snakes.
Dude, that thing left me scarred! Perhaps there should be a strong "click at your own risk" type warning.
This in no way is going to perpetuate any stereotypes of village/rural indians whatsoever??
Morans! What if it directly pokes in the eye of the toddler? These guys will then celebrate the god given blindness.
This is unreal...danger to the eye definitely is of concern. My heart is racing~
is the point to get past the snake (the parents keep telling the baby to come over) or is it to tame it? is this all over india? only in andhra? i felt a bit bad for the snake....
These guys will then celebrate the god given blindness.krish, have you read khushwant singh's short story, the mark of vishnu? horrifyingly amusing tale about snake devotion in india...
hav seen this one earlier...apparently its done so tht the child doesn't fear the snake. its a training for the boys so tht they become good snake-charmers/trainers whn they grow up
The snake is harmless, so what? If I would was any kind of father, I'd rather have my son playing with snakes than watching Barney (yuck!!!). A little aggression is GOOD in young boys, God save us from the handbag-wielding pink-shirt wearing Karan Johar types.
Certainly bizarre. Blindness apparently of no concern to parents, although that trust may be experientially based. Definitely no nappy/diaper on infant, so other bourgeois values also challenged. Amazing that the baby never even blinked when the snake lunged-- Very brave baby, I was rooting for him/her. Him? Her? No girl snake charmers? Gracias ak, I too will look for Khushwant Singh's snake story.
There are times being Indian seems a bit cool. Then there are times it seems like God's cruelest and yet funniest joke. This is the latter.
It doesn't help much, but this article does confirm what the YouTube commentor said.
This gave me the chills. My brother was bitten by a Krait very recently and spent 6 days in ICU on anti-venom.
BEHOLD THE CHILD THAT WILL RULE OVER ALL THE SNAKES!
around the 30 sec mark the kid has this look that says, "I will choke you, you cobra motherfucker."
nobody's gonna take that kid's lunch money. nobody.
I saw this a while ago... the baby is really cute.. Not really sure what, if anything, this will teach an infant. If anything it is probably teaching the opposite of what it should be, because if it was an actual snake with fangs, the baby would be dead pretty quickly.
I am unsure if this is a common practice to that particular village but it seems very dangerous. I wonder if there are any statistics/studies of villagers exposing children to cobras/snakes in this manner and how many injuries if any resulted.
It is unethical and extremely dangerous, in my opinion, to put a cobra in front of a defenseless child.
The people in the video seem to speaking Telugu...Despite Hyderabad and cyber-city hype etc, I find most people from Andhra to be the most superstitious types...In India, being Modern and also extremely superstitious at the same time does not feel odd to a vast majority of people...you only have to take a look at some of the movies to come out of Tollywood to see how bizzare it gets!
I like it. I think this should be the next Great Indian Export to the west after yoga and basmati. It can be called, hmm, Bonding with your kid the Shiva way, and we can even supply the special snakes. Animal lovers will be happy to see snakes bred with such fervor.
On a side note: How deliciously third world country! I hope we never snap out of it and join that part of humanity making it's trek towards enlightenment.
I take it that this child's name is *not* "Paddayappa" lol
Ever since my dog (R.I.P.) died after a fight with a cobra near home, I've been morbidly afraid of snakes of any kind, and rightly so. They are freaking dangerous, and I've seen them take a life, right in front of my eyes. Even if the cobra was defanged or whatever, what kind of parents would ever subject their child to such an atrocity? I couldn't get through the video, it was just too shocking.
Unfortunately, the reverence for the Cobra isn't prevalent only in the ignorant villages in some backward state ... Some of the most learned ppl in society also hold them sacred merely out of religion. If it deepens stereotyping of Indians, so be it - it is a fact at least in most parts of Karnataka that the cobra better not be disturbed/hurt/killed, else bad things will happen. Most of the times, the cobra is just 'shooed' away even if it were spotted inside a home or very close by, on their own courtyard. This is the most irresponsible consequence of this whole reverence... What if someone accidently steps on it and gets bitten ? They'd rather keep themselves safe from being 'cursed' than keep themselves safe from being killed.
In most of these sects, it is a 'curse' to even see a dead cobra .. and one must do thousands of rupees worth of pooja to cleanse oneself after this... which in turn makes it almost impossible for even non-believers to kill them... unless they wish to be shunned by their neighbours. Of all the beliefs in India, the reverence for the cobra is one thing that I'm hoping will die out as soon as possible.
Before we get all first-worldly righteous and indignant about this video, let's take a moment to understand why so-called "stupid, uneducated raghead Indian parents" (quoting comments from another website) would put their baby through this. Take a moment to understand the ecosystem in which the parents live in and the baby will grow up in. And if they are snake-charmers or the more needed snake-catchers (for us gentle, helpless city folks who need to call for special help to capture that cobra the took up dwelling under our balcony in the Banglore high-walled, posh house), then they need to nurture the fearlessness that babies come with naturally.
Fear or disgust of reptiles is considered mostly to be an acquired trait. And difficult to shed once acquired, I think. I speak from personal experience--despite going to vet school, I cannot bring myself to touch *shudder* any creature from the amphibian or reptile class. Thankfully, it affects not my career prospects in the world full of choices I live in (I have decided numbers-based research is my niche). But things would have been a lot different had I been born in family whose livelihood includes being a snake-catcher. You wouldn't want the snake-catcher you sent for to be more scared of the cobra under your balcony, would you?
Consider. I wanted to throw up in disgust when one of my (Caucasian) vet school friends in the US said happily that her missing ball python was found when it snuggled up in bed with her the previous night (it had gone missing for 3 days in the nooks and corners of her suburban student apartment). The way I see it, she voluntarily chooses to restore her missing link with the natural world with a cold-blooded creature who couldn't tell the difference between her and her dog, but the rural families in India have to learn to share their everyday environs with all kinds of animals and plants that inhabit their ecosystem. And you can't always tame it. Sometimes you have to accept it and learn to live with it side by side. If you are lucky, you live to tell tales about it. Educated by Western standards or not, the parents of that child have more than an instuitive understanding of the phenomenon of the world that surrounds them.
So folks, let's quit being judgemental about the people in whose shoes we have not walked.
All of you understand that in India especially rural India, snakes are ubiquitous and it is very important that the child be familiar with snakes, because most of the deaths related to snake bites happen beacause of shock experienced at seeing a snake. Most of us might have seen a snake at a zoo or something and thats why it is difficult for us to comprehend.
You donot see anything wrong with allowing your pet dog to play with your children because you think it wont hurt, this is also similar but because this is a snake we are bound to react differently.
Most of the times, the cobra is just 'shooed' away even if it were spotted inside a home or very close by, on their own courtyard.
Can't speak for all religious beliefs (as an aetheist), but in this case I am thankful for this particular respect and reverence accorded to cobras when analyzed from one side: that of the dwindling numbers of snakes in India. (Mostly due to disappearing habitats and increasing conflicts with human interests). Before you react adversely, let me just say that I myself will go crazy from fear if I found a cobra in my home...
Snakes occupy an important ecological niche such as controlling the rodent population and judging from my last visit to India, people aren't killing enough rats and mice. They choose to live with those disease-carrying, sewage-infesting vermins, so to me it is not at all strange that they choose to live with cobras in their environment. One might even argue that it is a consistent, non-discriminating, thankfully non-westernized environmental wisdom.
THe snake is probably more at risk considering that the snake has no fangs and cannot defend itself. Also the snake is in alien territory. Life is hard for a snake with mouth sewed up. Baby on the other hand looks like it had a nice nap after a good lunch to set up in destroying the slithering reptile.
So folks, let's quit being judgemental about the people in whose shoes we have not walked.Malathi,
Don't hold your breath on this one !
:-)
I think all of us who come from Indian farming/rural families have a good sense of how snakes are viewed and venerated. On one hand we will sacrifice chickens or goats to the abandoned termite mounds where they dwell. On the hand, I have seen the same people who venerate the cobra kill them if they enter homes or godowns. Some of the comments here suggest that villagers would allow a snake to harm their child...complete bunk. They would most assuredly kill a cobra threatening a human...we're not talking about Abraham willingly sacrificing Isaac to G*d here.
This video is just another example of the extreme being taken as mainstream. In one Intro the Anthro class I audited, the very first introduction to Hinduism was a documentary on Aghoris. Typical BS...
helpless city folks who need to call for special help to capture that cobra the took up dwelling under our balcony in the Banglore high-walled, posh house
Are snake sitings that common in the cities in India? I must readily admit, fear of snakes (to reinforce malathi's notion from above, I'd be perfectly happy if insecta and reptilia were completely eradicated...[yes yes, I understand their niche]) has kept me from going to small rural villages. The last time I was in a jungle [South America], seeing several pythons (perhaps anacondas) was enough to keep me away from jungle areas in the future. If I ran across a cobra in the wild, not sure if I would flee or have my legs turn to stone in petrified fear. In fact, my goal is to move to a high enough latitude where snakes are not found, even though I detest winters.
If this is supposed to teach the child to be comfortable in his/her ecological situation perhaps it would be more appropriate to teach the child that this particular snake isn't the kind you mess with. We all need to have a healthy respect for creatures without being scared of them. So, not to disrespect the snake charmers/catchers way of life but I'm not sure letting a child play with a defanged Cobra is teaching it the whole "healthy respect" thing. I'd be afraid that this child would initiate contact with the real thing because he doesn't really understand the danger.
Are snake sitings that common in the cities in India?
No Desh: If you spend at least 6 months in a S. Indian farming village, there's a 50% chance you will see cobra or russels viper outside of a cage. In most cases you will be well outside of the danger zone. The people at greatest risk are farm laborers during rice planting season as they are hunched over and more likely to catch a bite on the upper torso
No Desh: Disregard my last comment, I see that you were asking about cities. Don't know about that. But it seems like a city slum with its high concentration of rodents would attract snakes
Can someone speak to the caste/community issue? Not all rural people would let their kid play with a cobra, just those that harvest snakes (this is a large industry) or have some historic reason for dealing with them.
Here's a shot by Mary Ellen Mark, from 1981, from her work on Indian street performers (link).
Preston,
There is no caste issue here so I think we should refrain from making it out to be one. As malathi pointed out above we don't necessarily understand the circumstances so it is better not to be judgemental.
Munira, assuming you have never had to balance teaching a healthy respect vs healthy caution towards cobras, and assuming generations of snake charmers/snake catchers have done the balancing act and survived (in the big picture, not every individual who was born), I ask: who are we to comment? What experience do we bring to the discussion table? What authority do we have?
Maybe there needs to be a $20K-NIH-funded study based in the US, the results of which can be exported by a panel (in which a token South Asian origin person can sit) and snake-catching, villager-parents in India can come to a workshop and cleanse themselves of their own knowledge and relearn their survivial skills. But in the same spirit, I hope in the meanwhile that funds are set aside to teach dog safety tips to parents in developed countries, considering that most fatal dog attacks are in children left unsupervised with multiple dogs. And I don't even want to get started on breed-specific issues.
... Some of the most learned ppl in society also hold them sacred merely out of religion. If it deepens stereotyping of Indians, so be it - This is the most irresponsible consequence of this whole reverence... What if someone accidently steps on it and gets bitten ?Whatever your opinon of this video,I find it irritating that religious beliefs of others - however outlandish they may seem are mocked and tossed aside. This is intolerance.
By that standard then
- believing in a virgin birth
- worshipping idols
- throwing stones at a pillar to cast out the devil
etc,etc are all outlandish and may have irresponsible consequences.
Note: I am not trying to ignite some religious debate here -but trying to get some perspective into the discussion
I personally have never worshipped a snake, I am scared of them but I would not object to others worshipping them provided they do not harm them in this worship
Louiecypher - thanks for your response, for both cities and villages. Perhaps I should stay north, perhaps Amristar or Srinigar? Hopefully they have few creepy crawlers.
No Desh,
I lived 27 years in Delhi and Bombay and didn't see one other than the ones with the random snake charmers. I think you can go to most cities without aggravating your ophidiophobia.
Whatever your opinon of this video,I find it irritating that religious beliefs of others - however outlandish they may seem are mocked and tossed aside. This is intolerance. By that standard then - believing in a virgin birth - worshipping idols - throwing stones at a pillar to cast out the devil etc,etc are all outlandish and may have irresponsible consequences
i think all of these beliefs should be mocked and tossed aside. same with belief in the tooth fairy, a teapot orbiting mars, and flying spaghetti monsters.
why should ridiculous irrational beliefs be respected?
that said, i think people should be free to believe whatever nonsense they want.
that said, i think people should be free to believe whatever nonsense they want.Puli,
That is the key. And who is to decide what is irrational and what is rational? An atheist will find belief in any higher power irrational .Tolerance is allowing the atheist to not believe and in turn, the atheist allowing you to believe in whatver you want to as long as each of you is not trying to "convert " the other to your viewpoint. - or killingg each other over it
That is the key. And who is to decide what is irrational and what is rational? An atheist will find belief in any higher power irrational .Tolerance is allowing the atheist to not believe and in turn, the atheist allowing you to believe in whatver you want to as long as each of you is not trying to "convert " the other to your viewpoint. - or killingg each other over it
oh..i wholy agree. i think people should have the right to believe in any gobledy gook they want without fear of persecution. i mean...just cause someone believes in some higher power, fairies, angels, the starship enterprise, or god, doesnt mean they should be harmed or persecuted, or be considered less valuable. i just dont plan on actually respecting these beliefs on the same level as known facts like a lot of poeple would like (especially in the US).
i forgot xenu. how could i forget xenu.
killingg each other over it
awww, you are taking away all the fun! If we decide to try and kill each other over it, we can pump money in to defense spending which will drive the economy and help us all be good capitalists, right?
brown - thanks for sharing your experience. Either my fears are irrational, or you didn't get outside much! ;)
can the snake still kill the kid?
No Desh,
I never said that your fears are irrational just wanted to share what I noticed in 27 years in the two cities I lived in. As for not getting out much I will ignore that part of our comment.
what are the laws about using animals for this kind of thing in india? i would imagine a country with a crap load of hindus in it would be all about animal rights, etc.
@Runa #32
" Whatever your opinon of this video,I find it irritating that religious beliefs of others - however outlandish they may seem are mocked and tossed aside. This is intolerance. "
and
@Malathi #21
" Snakes occupy an important ecological niche such as controlling the rodent population and judging from my last visit to India, people aren't killing enough rats and mice."
- It is really, really easy to have a 'conservationist' opinion about snakes and animal rights living in America where the closest we get to wildlife are in zoos or sanctuaries. I have seen at least 10 cobra sightings in MY courtyard over the 10 years I lived there ... one of which took the life of my dog of 7 years. When there is a cobra roaming in your courtyard - it is the Survival of the Fittest... And what needs to be done will be done, regardless of 'religious tolerance' and 'animal rights'.
It is infortunate that the cobra has such a highly revered place in Indian society. If either of you have encountered a cobra in real life, and felt how close to death you really are, you would chuck political/religious correctness and conservation in the blink of an eye.
I, for one, will continue to call a spade a spade, and a snake a snake.
what do people in india do when there is a cobra in their house. i would $hit myself.
brown - I hope you didn't take offense at my comment (it was meant in jest). I was leaning more towards the irrational fear side myself - having a healthy fear is one thing, but a petrifying fear is probably not good.
(contd.)
@Runa:
I have no problem with others worshipping the Cobra, if they let us non-believers be as well. The problem arises because seeing a dead Cobra is a 'curse' in the village surrounding our house ... one that needs to be cleansed by costly poojas. If we were to protect our courtyard from the Cobra ,and didn't believe in 'shooing it away' , we would need to somehow kill it ... obviously you cannot do that in broad daylight because if the neighbours saw it, we'd be shunned.
This is where there is a conflict ... we want to save ourselves, they want to save their god. This is why I wish this belief dies out in the years to come ... I mean no offence to any religion here. Merely speaking about safety.
No Desh,
No offense at all, getting out much is a funny story which is why I was trying to ignore it. It is just the stupid internet where the intent at most times is not clear. Hope the fear is overcome soon.
The fact is, that most of us reading this site, whether we're ABD, DBD, NRI, or whatever your acronym of choice, are out of touch with the culture and folkways of rural India (of course, the culture is not homogenous and varies from region to region and as Preston mentioned even caste to caste). Urban middle and upper-class Indians are no exception to this state of being out of touch. Our grandparents on the other hand in most cases would have understood a lot of this stuff much better than we can. I am certainly not defending this particular snake custom (if that's what it is) BY ANY MEANS, but just pointing out that philosophically and culturally, those of us who have gone into the orbit of the Western World and the English language, have lost touch with a lot of hard-core, real desi stuff. That's certainly not necessarily a bad thing in all cases, but I think we need to acknowledge that reality. Which doesn't mean that idiotic or harmful rural customs should get a free pass.
The other reality is, that the western-based, English-medium model of education that many of us (or our peers in India) experienced, also takes us far away from our culture. Again, not a bad thing in all cases, but something to think about.
Randomizer,
I actually had an encounter with a Cobra in the garden of my home in India. My son was around 3 at that time and there was a real fear that he could be bitten.So I kept him indoors for a couple of days and we did what anyone in India does: called a snake catcher who caught the Cobra and then released it in the jungle.
I am truly sorry about your dog but that still does not give you the right to mock at someone else's religious beliefs .Thats all
I am NOT disputing your right to save your life or that of anyone dear to you by killing a snake if the situation demands.
Just don't be intolerant of others beliefs because they concern a species that you dislike.
Randomizer,
I had not read your # 48 before I sent out a response. Thanks for clarifying
I actually had an encounter with a Cobra in the garden of my home in India. My son was around 3 at that time and there was a real fear that he could be bitten.So I kept him indoors for a couple of days and we did what anyone in India does: called a snake catcher who caught the Cobra and then released it in the jungle.
wow....i mean. i dont even like seeing a spare ant in my house..
Puli,
See I am not the tree-hugging type or PETA activist but I really feel that we humans are encroaching more and more onto the habitat of wild animals.So these kind of encounters are not exceptional.We need to learn to share this earth with all kinds - humans and animals:-)
Cruel to the snake, but probably no more cruel than factory farms, or what is done to tigers in India. For the kid it is probably fine.
Now zipping through Delhi traffic with your whole family on the motorbike, baby holding onto the handle bars, woman side saddle on the back with her dupatta swinging precariously close to the back wheel, with no helmets on anyone? Katharnak! Maybe the American 'press' would lay off of Brittney Spears and put more attention where it should (err..Paris Hilton??) if they saw this.
Fear or disgust of reptiles is considered mostly to be an acquired trait.
I haven't read through all the comments on this thread - and haven't seen the linked video.
Nevertheless, I'll wade in, to contest this assertion, especially from a veterinarian. I think we should be aware that 'fear of snakes' - or slithering creatures in general - is considered by evolutionary psychologists, Steve Pinker prominent among them, to be an innate trait. It's even found in monkeys raised in labs who have never seen snakes before in their lives. They flee instinctively when a snake enters their cage. There is a reason for it - many snakes are poisonous, and it makes sense for the brain to evolve a 'flee' response to a slithering form on an unconscious, innate basis.
Secondly - for people who think they have to go into rural areas to find snakes in India - think again. I lived in Delhi and Chandigarh in the north - and Bangalore in the south - both in recently settled areas and in neighborhoods that have been lived in for decades - and snakes - cobras in particular, have been quite commonly found - in people's houses, in their gardens, in the grass, in rocky areas, in drains, in ant-hills (supposedly a favorite location for cobras) - everywhere that seems half way likely or plausible. It's actually quite common in Bangalore to find snakes in professional environments - this gentleman caught 463 snakes at the National Aeronautical Laboratory campus over the past decade as its resident snake catcher. I don't know what the situation is on the Infosys campus. Perhaps someone will tell us.
Thirdly, while I recognize the good work snake catchers do - I would be quite happy if charmers didn't exist, and subject their infants to this nonsense, and if people did not have 'pet boas' that got lost and wandered everywhere in an apartment building. Pet snakes are a contradiction in terms. It is not plausible to me that snakes can experience or reciprocate affection or display fidelity, obedience and other characteristics one seeks in household pets. Having a snake as a pet is a dangerous fetish. I've also heard of drug dealers keeping 'pet' snakes to terrify their clients and competitors. I wouldn't be at all unhappy if ordinary people who lived in apartments were banned from having snakes as pets. Let's leave that to the professionals - herpetologists, museums, zoos, and snake farms.
Randomizer,
I am calling a snake a snake, not a cuddly, stuffed toy. I was Chennai-based and have rural working-class paddy-farm laborers for relatives, so I am aware of the real dangers, not just the occassional excitement in concrete cities where an occassional snake turns up (only to be deftly caught by skilled snake-catchers who will invariably be sent for--the point of my original post).
Please recognize that there is no individual Animal-Rights arguement going on here, at least not on my part. Having said that I do want to reinstate my admiration for a belief system that i find ultimately makes (big-picture) ecological sense, despite an apparent "bizarre" factor and despite it creating problems for a human-centric arguement. I find it fascinating especially because I find that all of us--people from India, even people who consider themselves Hindus--don't realize, generally speaking, how much we subscribe to the Judeo-Christian view of a world with humans at the top (or center) of the world and every other creature subjugated to our personal or collective needs. Sometimes belief systems such as snake-"worship" sort of give an insight into the traditional ecological awareness that were part of the social fabric of that locale. Whether I personally fear a snake or hate a snake or love a snake coiled around my neck for photo-op purposes is irrelevant to my appreciation/awe of the intrinsic knowledge that our ancestors in the sub-continent seemed to have had. (How we, as modern Indians, relate to that type of history is a big discussion in and of itself, of course).
Nuff time wasted already
Chachaji,
Fascinating stuff, if you don't mind and I am not being an asshole do you mind sharing what parts of Delhi did you live in, it will be interesting to know.
Here come the "did you have to fight cobras as a baby" questions.
i never got ow a mongoose can fight a cobra. a cobra is this bad ass poisonous snake. the mongoose is a little rat quirel thing. seems messed up that it can take out a cobra.
Here come the "did you have to fight cobras as a baby" questions.
Just when I'd heard the last of "do you eat monkey brains for dessert?" Damn.
Oh, and now that the video is over I have resumed breathing. Whose job is it to sew the snake's mouth shut? That seems pretty bold in itself.
Just when I'd heard the last of "do you eat monkey brains for dessert?" Damn.
the ironic thing about that question in elementary school is that i was a vegitarian and the poeple asking me were eating pig entrails for lunch....
@malathi -
I am in awe of the Ecology/Evolution as well ( which is why I am an atheist ) but frankly, I'm pretty sure that snake-worship arose out of fear of the reptile and a lack of understanding it, rather than the ecological awareness and intrinsic knowledge of our ancestors, which (if i'm not mistaken )you seem to be hinting at in your comment(#57).
http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper85.html is an informative page on the origins of worship(from stones to animals) for those interested ..
So rather than our ancestors' insight, it was the lack of it I believe that resulted in these religious beliefs, resulting also in the veneration of the snake. [It's also interesting to note that Snake worship is not an Indian thing alone, in fact it has European roots as well.]
We are not at odds with our opinions though, Malathi. I agree that if possible, it's best to conserve. But in all other cases, I believe in 'may the best man(or creature) win' ... especially if it is staring at you in your courtyard.
Better this than having a 15 year old with no formal medical training do a C-section on women to get into the Guinness World Book of Records!
chachiji - your comment was quite interesting. I too have often wondered why people associate snakes with "pets". I knew a fellow who lived a few blocks away who had hundreds of snakes (+- venom)/scorpions/spiders/other ickies in his house (he was a breeder and considered himself a professional). Nonetheless, none of the other folks in his urban apt building knew about his tenants nor did his landlord. Thank god I didn't live in that place! He did invite me in once to take a look...I quickly declined.
Perhaps a high-rise apt building in Mumbai would be best for me!
Brown - yeah, this medium does make it difficult for detection of tone - no worries!
Folks, think of the frustration this snake experienced. And see what it felt forced to do next!
Also, I think it was just dad playing with his kid. If he was throwing a football, y'all wouldn't be so judgmental.
I feel smug knowing I have an actual cobra story to tell here. When I was a tween, a cobra was sighted late in the evening outside the loo of our rented house (this was Bangalore, circa 1980s and this house had a loo with an external entrance). It was an interesting intersection of religion (worship of the cobra as a sacred animal) and life (being scared to death of it). There was quite a debate on what to do and good sense ultimately prevailed. We had a couple of guys come in and whack the cobra. It's one of those childhood memories that's burnt into memory- the cobra was asleep when struck, woke up, lashed out at a plastic bucket nearby, but was eventually killed. The laborers who killed the cobra then cremated it and I think we had to give a piece of gold and a silk cloth etc to cremate with the cobra. Also, I have this bizarre memory of a large dead frog sticking out of the dead cobra- the poor animal had had a big meal and was taking a nap.
I actually had an encounter with a Cobra in the garden of my home in India. My son was around 3 at that time and there was a real fear that he could be bitten.So I kept him indoors for a couple of days and we did what anyone in India does: called a snake catcher who caught the Cobra and then released it in the jungle.
Hi Runa. As someone who also has had encounters with cobras in gardens - and elsewhere - in India - I wonder if calling a snake catcher is really the first thing one thinks of? I mean, I didn't know that there were professional snake catchers just freelancing out there - the person I linked to at the NAL grew into his role, and wasn't exactly trained for it.
Usually, on discovering a snake, whether in the garden or the basement, or under a pile of any kind of stuff left undisturbed for a while (snakes like quiet, cool places) - one organizes a posse to hunt down the snake and yes, if it doesn't get away, to catch and kill it. Also, since snakes aren't fond of the single living arrangement, a lookout is also posted to all in the area to watch out for the partner(s). A snake is too dangerous a thing to encounter in your living environs and then to wait for a snake catcher to come, catch it, and release it in the wild. I've never killed a snake myself, and hope I don't have to, but my father has had to kill several that invaded our house(s)when we were kids.
And brown, that was in both North Delhi and South Delhi, and several places in Bangalore.
It is unethical and extremely dangerous, in my opinion, to put a cobra in front of a defenseless child.
To say nothing of making a video of the thing (which I still haven't seen, based on people's comments). Jeez. What kind of person would make a video of an infant child playing with a cobra? I know the Mutiny discusses pr0n and snuff facetiously - and only facetiously - but I mean, this kind of thing is real, and really is beyond the pale. I hope people who have seen it and been disgusted flag it to youtube as not suitable for children, never mind that there is a child in it.
To satiate dinesh, this is usually done by the kid's parents, and they were just doing it to give him an early start and get him a world record while at it.
Also, "rite of passage in India". Really? Learning the rope trick, I can understand. Dodging elephants while riding cows, sure. But, playing with snakes? That's the craziest f@#%king thing I've ever heard!
was it just me or did anyone else see the snake's tongue come out right at the end? just for a split second - just before it wrapped itself around the baby.
Better this than having a 15 year old with no formal medical training do a C-section on women to get into the Guinness World Book of Records!
What is the deal with Indians and the Guinness Book? I thought it was all over until I heard about that boy, which is appalling, by the way. I remember watching one of those GBoWR specials on TV as a kid, and we had the long nails guy, the lightbulb eating guy and various other dedicated.. well, freaks. This seems like some sort of sick twist on colonialism to me.
What is the deal with Indians and the Guinness Book?
Great question:
http://www.liftingfaces.com/2006/12/top-5-guinness-book-records-relating-to-the-body/
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/Independent/guiness.html
And remember this guy from the 70s?:
http://static.flickr.com/116/254021032_4e013d22da_m.jpg
He does bleed so don't watch if sight of blood makes you sick.
Sorry. Here are active links:
Top 5 Guinness Book Records (Relating to the Body)
Indians and the Guinness Book of Records: The Political and Cultural Contours of a National Obsession
Perfection, Preston. ;)
To say nothing of making a video of the thing (which I still haven't seen, based on people's comments). Jeez. What kind of person would make a video of an infant child playing with a cobra?
Are we now assuming that the parents/caretakers of the child made the video and put it on YouTube?
What does it say about us that we are as critical, if not more (and up in arms, outraged), of a possibly rare custom (that we understand nothing about) as the average person online from another culture, say a Czech or a South African or a Nebraska farmer or a Japanese? Nobody does anything without personally feeling good and smug about it, so we need to look deep inside us to figure out what makes us feel so jolly-good righteous in front of our computer watching a sensationalized video and giving no benefit of doubt to the parents' intentions.
Oh by the way, from what I hear, evolutionary psychology does not have the last word on instincts; it has its share of critics. I neither have the energy nor the necessary knowledge to reduce their academic discourse to convenient one-liners here.
I am in awe of the Ecology/Evolution as well ( which is why I am an atheist ) but frankly, I'm pretty sure that snake-worship arose out of fear of the reptile and a lack of understanding it, rather than the ecological awareness and intrinsic knowledge of our ancestors, which (if i'm not mistaken )you seem to be hinting at in your comment(#57).
So rather than our ancestors' insight, it was the lack of it I believe that resulted in these religious beliefs, resulting also in the veneration of the snake.
Randomizer,
I don't know...How can you reduce centuries and centuries of observations, discourses, practices and collective knowledge exhibited by millions of individuals in the sub-continent into neat, currently-dated, mutually-exclusive packets of fear vs awareness, understanding vs ignorance, etc? I thought that it was the work of say, cliched white missionaries in "dark" Africa to see things so clearly black and white, to sweep all local rules/customs/practices/interpretations as irrelevant and ignorant to the modern world, to see nothing beyond the face value of a custom.
Even personally, don't we sometimes arrive at the "right" insight or solution after several false attempts, after several misconceptions, after several personal biases and beliefs. And sometimes we don't arrive anywhere at all, although in another part of the world (or in a different time period) someone else may arrive at an understanding and lives an Eureka moment.
Anyway, I am neither a sociologist nor an anthropologist to get drawn into such discussions. Judging by the previous paragraph I am not even capable of spreading bumper-sticker wisdom. I am an opinionated vet who cannot stand sweeping first-world mockery and indignation (whether it comes from whites or browns) when it comes to human-animal interactions or larger environmental issues in the third-world, especially when the people discussed about are not here to talk back or explain themselves.
Damn, now I am behind on my paper by a whole day.
I saw this a few weeks ago -- Im assuming it was de-fanged so the baby just feels like its been hit by something soft and mushy
chachaji # 69,
Hi,
Actually my experience was that it was fairly easy to find a professional snake catcher. I think that is true for many towns in India. These guys actually get paid by the govt wildlife dept ( I think) for the venom that is extracted from the live snake.That venom is used to create antidotes to snake bites! My personal belief is that if you can protect yourself without killing the snake thats the best option. Of course it depends on the situation. I also believe that close encounters with wildlife are best left to experts.
Runa, I remember seeing snake milking shows near Mahabalipuram (crocodile park) by the Irulas.
My Delhi snake experience was neither in a garden nor near an ant hill, the natural habitat of the urban snakes according to chachaji's report, but on a busy eight-lane city street while waiting for the traffic light to turn green.
While stopped at the light, I spotted a far away historical monument, of which Delhi reportedly has 1,900. Seeing a photo-op, I immediately rolled down the glass and trained my camera on the monument. Wanting a close-up, I pressed the zoom. Instead of a growing picture of the monument as the zoom whirred, I saw in my view finder a slowly growing head of a cobra. I was scared out of my wits. While I frantically tried to roll the window up, the guy holding the cobra made several aggressive moves to thrust the snake closer to my face.
I was told by my driver that this was an extortion racket. These guys were paying the police off to look the other way while they scared motorists into coughing up some money just to get rid of them. They pretend to be harmless entertainers showing their snakes off for a little tip, but they are not above using scare tactics to boost the collection. Next time I am shooting monuments with my window all the way up.
Next time I am shooting monuments with my window all the way up.
If the hood is a-rockin', don't come clickin'.
@malathi -
"How can you reduce centuries and centuries of observations, discourses, practices and collective knowledge exhibited by millions of individuals in the sub-continent into neat, currently-dated, mutually-exclusive packets of fear vs awareness, understanding vs ignorance, etc?"
Our ancestors may have known a tremendous amount about the environment, and the creatures in it, I agree, but it cannot be an explanation for the reason it gained religious importance, which is what we are specifically disputing here. Historically, religious figures have always been the result of the 'mysterious' and the 'unknown'. For instance, the Sun (Ra) for the Egyptians, Thor for the Vikings, and hundred other gods for the Greeks, rain gods, animal gods, the list goes on... Once these elements (rain, fire, water, planets ) are explained by Science, they lose their 'mystical' significance and worship of it declines.
To be concise, my point is: that which is thoroughly understood, is very rarely worshipped.
The case of India and the Cobra might be a rare exception to this general trait of religious origins, and I cannot claim to disprove that. In the meanwhile, we can only agree to disagree.
While this particular incident might have been motivated by tradition/custom/ignorance, there was another one motivated purely by publicity which got quite a lot of attention. The late Steve Irwin (of stinger flicking good fame) took his one month old son within snapping distance of a crocodile.
Also, despite my joking in #71, have people heard of this custom in some community or village? This is really news to me!
"While this particular incident might have been motivated by tradition/custom/ignorance, there was another one motivated purely by publicity"
Remember the infamous Michael Jackson dangling his baby from the balcony of a hotel building?
Wait, are you sure the video is real? Are you sure it is not some fiendish teaser trailer stunt by Spielberg-Lucas for Indiana Jones 4?
Am I the only one who finds this incredibly, incredibly cruel to the snake? Sewing a living creature's mouth shut... are you kidding me?!! Those bastards.
While there is certainly a great danger to the child, it is quite common for communities with a tradition of rare skills such as raising snakes (as the Irulas) to train their children young. As it does for any number of trades. This is not only a common pattern among 'pre-modern' but also contemporary communities. I have seen Rom Whitaker's children - who could barely walk learning to play with snakes, along with their Irula friends. Dirty, difficult, dangerous? Sure. That's why some of us choose to gush over the works of quack economists, while others choose to go out into the wilds and study nature.
Randomizer, you are on an interesting track re beliefs, traditions etc., Since this thread has gone cold, we will take up your notions on another thread one of these days.
Remember the infamous Michael Jackson dangling his baby from the balcony of a hotel building?
Yes, I didn't mention it because Jacko seems to operate in an alternate wacko universe where he can fuel his Peter Pan complex by building a ranch called Neverland to invite kids for (at best) questionable activities, change his skin color and all of his features by deconstructive surgery, and do the moonwalk.
This is the link I meant to use for the "deconstructive surgery" text above.
Don't forget the elephant outside the office for the snake in the grass.
