Nah - I think he was just frustrated. Silly though how even the simplest names are obscured: Gooooopta!

Bud light, Boood light....Bud light, Boood light

I didn't see anything racist in his pronunciation. Sure, he mangled it, but in a way that a lot of white Americans do. The video's name on sevenload is "moorename". Maybe your tipster isn't so anonymous, eh? :)

He mangled it or mispronounced it? Please. First of all lets disconnect the rest of his points about healthcare and the war from this particular bit because they obviously have much more merit. But it is incredible hypocrisy if you turn a blind eye to this: First he purposely moved his head forward to enunciate the guys name which indicates he knew that he was adding something to his name and secondly if you watch the entire video (admittedly excruciating) you'll see that he said Dr. Sanjay Gupta's name the correct way (and not in the tone he uses here- one which is often used to mock perceived indian accents) over half a dozen times. To put it simply, it was a racist cheap shot, which is especially obvious if you watch the entire video.

A person's politics on some issues don't excuse stupidity in other areas.

Nope. It's just plain fun to say GUPta, no matter what your color.

um. no! to say otherwise would be to indict myself [1], [2] etc.

"please", I was going off of the snippet posted above, maybe I'll watch the whole video later. I'd appreciate if you didn't insinuate that I am an apologist for him, because I actually think he does my politics a disservice with his unnuanced demagoguery.

Umm...where's the racism in this? Michael Moore was getting heated in his exchange with Wolf Blitzer and enunciated "GOOPta" out of his anger, not out of any racist intent.

It reminds me of that bit from the office (US) when Michael is doing that diversity day exercise and starts asking Kelly 'would you like some cookie cookie' or something in the apu accent. This was a little worse as Michael Scott is just as idiot whereas Moore seemed to mean it as a quasi insult. Doesn't mean he's racist, but its a stupid thing to do and a tad bit juvenile

point taken rahul. i don't mean to insinuate you're an apologist regardless of your particular political view (i'm actually somewhat of a fan of moore, though this was juvenile)

I did not see any racism period and there was no Apu channeling whatsoever.

when i first saw this post, i did a 5 minute dance of ecstasy. then i played the clip and i didn't have a slightest idea of what anna was talking about. i thought my computer ended the clip too soon. so i played it again. but same thing. then i read the comments. but to my horror everyone was dumbfounded too. then i read please. and his logic persuaded me that this man is a racist.

oh, i can't do this. can we please just concentrate on how he dehumanizes the cuban people?

To be fair, "please" has a very valid point-- I watched the whole thing (extended version), twice and it's true; Moore seemed to have no problem pronouncing anything earlier on, repeatedly. It's still brutal to sit through, though. :)

No worries, "please". Thanks for the response.

the only reason it annoys me is that it spoils a heck of a segment by moore where he really chews out cnn.

Manju-- I said it was a racist cheap shot, I dont think Moore is racist, but someone can say one particular thing which can be insensitive/racist and still not be a racist person. Maybe you feel differently, but thats how i see it.

I saw the clip twice. And to me Moore was attacking Dr. Gupta for his reporting and being part of "mainstream media" rather than him personally. I don't think there was anything racist about it. Come on guys lets not get so sensitive that any criticism is because of the race. Lets not develop the victim mentality.

The tirade was against the mainstream media (deservedly so) for its blatant misrepresentation. Please people, stop giving Michael Moore this much CREDIT. He's a filmmaker, he makes MOVIES that play in blockbuster theaters alongside other MOVIES about cars that transform into ROBOTS. His films are designed to entertain, and raise a general awareness about social and political issues. He's a sensationalist (but I happen to agree with most of the issues he's sensational about) His movies aren't "propaganda"

Secondly, Moore a racist? Cmon, Read stupid white men, in particular the chapter "Kill Whitey".

And I think asking whether or not he's a 'racist' bismirches the point - this reeks to me of the Rosie Odonnell "ching chung" incident (which by the way, is MUCH MUCH more blatant) but most white folks, irrespective of how liberal or leftist they are, have certain stereotypes embedded into their heads. In rosie's case, she probably heard chinese people being referred to as "ching chong" people since she was a 3 year old - that characterization just stuck in her head.

Michael Moore's attack on Gupta wasn't out of his indianness, but his complicit actions in mass media misinformation, the "foreign sounding name" was like icing on the top. Unnecessary, yes. But in the heat of a battle you reach back into the canals of your brains and fish out your original stereotypes.

no way did it seem like Gupta was being racially attacked, professionally - sure, but who cares about that. Moore pretty much blasted the entire CNN gang and so I don't see anything racial here. At best his discomfort at pronunciation got more obvious when he was frustrated, but that still does not mean it was anything racial. Plus I liked the way he put a spin to Rudy's comments to make it seem anti medicare.

Secondly, I find it a bit disconcerting that this issue is blogged about, and the fact that insurance companies anally rape milllions of people for profit is glossed over. The film is fantastic.

Ramaswamy

I think you're right that he's attacking him for being complicit in what Moore perceives to be the pro corporation media, but he could have chosen many other ways to make fun of a randomly media associated individual then something associated with race. It isn't a victim's mentality to point out something is stupid but at the same time realize it was likely just out of frustration and not a serious race issue. It's a little too pc for me, but then again imagine if gupta was spanish and moore rolled his r's or he was african and he added in a click (a la russell peters skit) to the person's name. The media (besides just a couple right leaning sites) would probably have made a bigger deal out of it though none of the three situations really deserve much attention (isn't there a more interesting paris hilton party they can cover?)

Manju-- I said it was a racist cheap shot, I dont think Moore is racist, but someone can say one particular thing which can be insensitive/racist and still not be a racist person. Maybe you feel differently, but thats how i see it.

hmmm. yes. i think i can see that. i had an altercation the other day with a black dude while buying a protein shake. he said: "excuse me, i was first, apu." i said, "of course, go right ahead...tyrone." we stood eye to eye for two seconds. then both cracked up. he cracked first.

I have dumb question. In that breitbart.tv link it is titled the "indian" anchor . I thought Sanjay was an american citizen ? If people are alluding to his desi background shouldn't he be called "indian american" or something else ? or Maybe I am wrong probably he is an indian.
I saw the entire clip but didn't find anything wrong in Moore's statement. If you pay close attention, in the beginning the CNN anchor defends CNN medical reporting by vouching Sanjay's excellent record and asks Moore to visit Sanjay's website. I think to this Moore remarks in the end about visiting Sanjay's website as in the posted clip. What can probably be controversial is Moore's doubt on Sanjay's war statements and some other medical analysis. But he has every right to question Sanjay's analysis. What is racist/scandalous/nebulous ?

I find it a bit disconcerting that this issue is blogged about, and the fact that insurance companies anally rape milllions of people for profit is glossed over.

HMF, I am not A N N A (duh!), but it seems fairly obvious to me that this specific issue has been blogged about here for the explicitly South Asian interest aspect. (I don't think saying that South Asians are also among the millions of people engaged in unwilful rectal intercourse with insurance companies is equivalent).

As for Moore's movies, if you don't think they are propaganda (independent of whether you agree with them or not), I don't know what they are. Just because you charge $10 a ticket to allow people to watch something doesn't mean it can't aggressively push a point of view.

I watched the whole thing, twice and it's true; Moore seemed to have no problem pronouncing anything earlier on, repeatedly.

Michael Moore has a classic Michigan accent. Every word he utters (but particularly his o's--'out', 'about', etc.) is going to sound odd and affected to coastal ears.

for the record, i thought king kong was racist.

What a ridiculous post. There's nothing racist about this. We should be more concerned about the issues he raised.

It seemed that mr. moore. put on his best version of an indian accent. god knows why - he was aggravated and in his aggravation there might have been some insight into the mind of michael moore. Ironically, doesn't sanjay gupta have an american accent?

I don't get it. Where's the racism? In the way he says Gupta? Did I miss something?

I saw the whole video. The most offensive bit to me was Lou Dobb's wisecrack at the end. There was nothing in Moore's commentary that came off as racist. How does Gupta himself pronounce his name anyway? More like how Moore did. And there was no perceptible difference to me, between how Moore says it earlier and later. Anyway, I can't believe we really want to come after a guy for not getting the 'u' in Gupta right. Come on. The only mispronunciation I sensed was Blitzer himself going 'Saahnjay'.

This also brings up a personal vignette. I don't look too much like Sanjay, nor is my last name 'Gupta', but many people over the years have called me 'Dr. Goopta', some of whom I was meeting on a weekly basis, and many of whom persisted inspite of repeated correction. So I don't know why that was, but that was offensive not because they were stretching the vowel sound but because I was not Dr. Gupta!

And BTW, I don't know what Breitbart's politics are, but it sure looks like they are trying to do a number on Moore.

Definitely racist, there's an undercurrent of it in the protectionist Left though they often try to mask it under faux concern for 3rd world waifs.

though they often try to mask it under faux concern for 3rd world waifs.

Not Moore, the populist, for sure. I wonder if his next movie will be on outsourcing (if it's still a hot button issue in the next year or two), so he can come up with some maudlin story about the ramshackle homes and rampant poverty in Flint, Michigan. Maybe he can go confront Narayana Murthy in his office this time? It's been at least 10 years since Roger and Me, right?

(I can't believe Moore irritates me so much even when I agree with his basic tenets. Are there people on the right who feel that way about the Coulter-geist?)

Not racist... I think Moore is a very intelligent filmmaker who cons the public by misconstruing facts, but I wouldn't say that he's racist based solely on the 11 seconds that I saw.

louiecypher, I find your comment interesting (# 31) although you are going to have to back it up. I have certainly noticed condescension in the Iraq war debate - we gave them their freedom, they can't figure out what to do with it, they need to get their act together - kind of rhetoric, although that comes from both the left and the right.

I can also think of organized labor's opposition to H1-B visas although I can see their point that creating vast pools of temporary labor without rights to work-place representation or collective bargaining, is convenient for corporations (the same reason organized labor opposes the guest worker program). But I find it hard to bring myself to conclude that these objections are racially motivated.

It seemed that mr. moore. put on his best version of an indian accent

Definitely racist, there's an undercurrent of it in the protectionist Left though they often try to mask it under faux concern for 3rd world waifs.

yeah. i'm starting to feel it now. keep going.

yeah. i'm starting to feel it now. keep going.

Manju, since I'm on the left, I'm using protection, though.

There are many things wrong with Sicko but not the ones mentioned in the CNN report before the interview.

heck's wrong with Dr. Gupta? Shoddy journalism on his part. No wonder Moore was pissed.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10017

Not racist.

Manju, since I'm on the left, I'm using protection, though.

oh. you're on the left, rahul. that explains it. i thought it wasn't in yet.

Top. Bottom. Left. Right. Let's call the whole thing off!

There are many things wrong with Sicko but not the ones mentioned in the CNN report before the interview.

heck's wrong with Dr. Gupta? Shoddy journalism on his part. No wonder Moore was pissed.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/news/article.php?id=10017

Not racist.

Moore is a slob and is just pissed off that most people would not want him fixing their refrigerator while Dr. Gupta inspires confidence in men and lust in women (and sometimes the other way around, nothing wrong with that). People who actually vote didn't need Moore to tell them about the Carlyle Group or the corruption of power in the Bush administration

based on the post ... before viewing the video ... i thought he had used the M word ;)
To my horror, it was only a mispronunciation like most of the non-indians would do ...

Not racist. Looks to me like he was making fun with his emphatic pronunciation of the reverential way Blitzer was going on about Gupta 'risking his life' for journalism and neurosurgery.

I agree with Chachaji. Someone's trying to muck up Moore.

not racist. even if it was racist, there's a lot of much nastier and unequivocal stuff out there. outrage is finite.

FWIW, i dislike moore & his politics.

Top. Bottom. Left. Right. Let's call the whole thing off!

yeah, i supppose you're right rahul. you say ee-rock, i say eye-rack. let's call the whole thing off.

I saw this on Drudge earlier today which is undoubtedly where the tipster saw it. Nuff said. Breitbart is a conservative media baron who is pals with the conservative Drudge. They will do anything to spin a story against a "liberal." Much more interesting is the new asshole Moore tears Blitzer.

Breitbart is a conservative media baron who is pals with the conservative Drudge.

"The Drudge Report may have a right-wing reputation, but it leans left."

"The Drudge Report may have a right-wing reputation, but it leans left."

Give me a break dude. I spend more time on Drudge then on SM. I think I know which way it leans.

They will do anything to spin a story against a "liberal."

well, whatever. the video is the video. no one manipulated moore's tone or terms. can we keep politics to the side for 0.01 nanoseconds and extract the question of racism outside of the an instrumental framework where we bludgeon our political moments for 0.1 nanoseconds?

well, whatever. the video is the video.

What is clear from the video is that Moore has contempt for the fact that Sanjay was an "embed."

Scraping the barrel for "brown" stories? What's next, "Optimus Prime stolen from ancient India"?

I spend more time on Drudge then on SM. I think I know which way it leans.

between you, me, and rahul...the homo-eroticism on this thread is too much for me to bear.

What's next, "Optimus Prime stolen from ancient India"?

Dude, if you have any info on the veracity of this I'm all over it :)

Did he or didn't he?

I watched the full video, and I highly highly recommend it. Is it schadenfreude for me to have enjoyed Moore's blitzkrieg on Wolf? As for racism, I still maintain, "Oh no, he di'nt!" The only disgusting thing in the entire piece was said by Lou Dobbs - that guy's face is always redder than Stalin.

Optimus Prime stolen from ancient India

I don't know about Optimus Prime, but Megatron surely is. Check out the story of Sakatasura, who transformed himself into a bullock cart, to kill Krishna.

between you, me, and rahul...

Which of us is Suzanne Somers?

Is this really what you guys think a political issue affecting South Asians looks like?

Which of us is Suzanne Somers?

thigh-master? cum and knock on her door? you've gone beyond my cultural references, rahul. there's something happening here but i don't know what it is. do you mr jones.

great legs though.

Yeah, Sanjay Gupta mispronounces his own name to make it sound the way an American would pronounce it. And hes not the only one. Now cumon!!

there's something happening here but i don't know what it is. do you mr jones.

Oh, Manju, you have many contacts to get you facts. You are very well read, it's well known. So, I'll hand you a bone.

Yeah, Sanjay Gupta mispronounces his own name to make it sound the way an American would pronounce it.

Maybe Moore was really saying that Sanjay's character on CNN was over, because of his greasy behavior? You know, Goop, Ta!

Maybe Moore was really saying that Sanjay's character on CNN was over, because of his greasy behavior?

I meant career.

I won't go to that length. Why shud he be interested in Dr Gooptah's job security?

So this what it takes huh? To stop the dung flinging at Anna, we need a Michael Moore post? Quick, somebody edit a George Bush clip so that it appears he says macaca. Similar edited clips of Moore, Narendra Modi, Mushi, Arundhati, Kaavya, Kal, Hillary, Sanjaya, Salman should be enough to deflect future dung flinging.

So this what it takes huh?

NVM, don't tempt fate.

must you block quote the only sentence of mine that has a typo?

I know threads are to be made on these type of blogs for discussion but in my opinion, taking the time to discuss something like this just contributes to the crying wolf syndrome that is very counter-productive to the cause...

Wow, you guys are really paranoid. It's kind of sad, actually.

i agree eduardo.. any little thing gets everyone in a tizzy..

Wow, you guys are really paranoid. It's kind of sad, actually.

No actually, we all have internet connections and an abiding curiosity in all things brown-related or possibly brown-related.

Moore is pronouncing the doc's name much like Sanjay's colleagues do on TV--his anger is obviously causing him to overemphasize one portion of the doc's name. Much like the notorious Lack-Shmee Singh does on NPR. A self-parody almost, but really it's just the way they pronounce their names.

I've never really been offended by Sanjay Gupta's reporting because I regard most things health-related, reported by cable news, to be somewhat equivalent to the color-coded 'threat-level' indicator of which Fox News is so fond.

That's it? So everytime someone butchers my name they are being racist? Shit. I had no idea.

I agree with Eduard. It was not racist at all.

please another check to the "are you kidding me with this?"

I don't think it was intentional. I think it's something everyone has done: you know how to pronounce someone's difficult-(for you)-to-pronounce name and you can pronounce it correctly if you are consciously making the effort. But in the heat of a discussion, you might start reverting to your natural, mangled pronunciation. I know I do it with the French. ;)

Also, these videos are a great example of why I hate watching Blitzer et al- if I wanted to hear people screaming at each other like this about politics, I'd just invite my family over on a Saturday night.

As for Moore's movies, if you don't think they are propaganda (independent of whether you agree with them or not), I don't know what they are.

First of all, try to understand the concept of propaganda. a SINGLE film cannot itself function as propaganda. Lets look at the wikipedia definition:

" a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of peopl"

The operative word here is set, so print, broadcast, radio TV, film when they all function together, it's propaganda. So you see a news report giving you the blow by blow on the war (we moved troops from this locale to that locale, etc..) then you see a commercial for a video game called "Tank X" where you're a tank in a urban war zone, then you go to a movie and see american flags all over the place and people saluting them, (for ex. National Treasure), then you open the newspaper and see a full page ad to join the Army or Navy, because its not just a job, its an adventure, then you turn on TV and see Jack Bauer chop someone's pinky off for the secret code and say he did it for the country.

That is what propaganda is.

Secondly, as for the desi angle - earlier I jokingly stated, many of the NHS hospital workers were desi, but last I checked being desi living in the US doesn't give you any sort of health insurance benefits that supercede those available to your average US citizens. I'm not saying don't discuss this issue, although I personally think its a no-brainer, just don't make it the only issue.

I watched the entire video (not just the last 10 seconds) -- Moore spent most of the video calling CNN the incompetent network they are. I didn't notice anything racist at all. Moore dislikes Gupta because they're on opposite sides on most things, the Iraq war, and now Healthcare. Can't people dislike other people on political grounds? If you watch Moore say "Bush" when he's frustrated, he uses the same elongated, booming pronunciation.

Anna,
This is a much ado about nothing. Who submitted this story?? Someone needs to recall 'the boy who cried wolf' -- save the claims of racism for when it really happens (and it does, of course, happen), otherwise people'll just dismiss you as a cry-baby.

slighty off-topic but who checked out M. Night on Entourage this week. HILARIOUS!!
Ari: "Indians and improv. No greater match."

Anna, This is a much ado about nothing. Who submitted this story??

Thank you a dozen times for mentioning what you did. Who, indeed, because some have not realized-- it's not me. I wouldn't have put it on the news tab because I didn't think it was racist. But I respect all of you readers and am not so sure of myself, that I'd let my decision be your decision, if that makes sense. The person who submitted the story was a lurker; I wanted to see if they had company among mutineers.

Again, I didn't come up with this story, one of YOU did. I wanted to know what the REST of you thought.

As for the crit that "you guys are all paranoid", please. Are you reading these comments? Most people don't see anything offensive here, but thanks for tarring everyone with your insulting brush. No one is getting in a tizzy. Can people distinguish between an open discussion, which is what I was trying to initiate and me writing "THIS IS RACIST! THIS IS AWFUL!"???

Please Anna. This was no way intentional. I have seen many whites pronounce Gupta as Goopta. Hell, i heard even an Indian or two mangle their names thinking it will be easier for a white guy to understand.

Sorry, Anna. I should have read your last comment before posting mine.

First of all, try to understand the concept of propaganda. a SINGLE film cannot itself function as propaganda. Lets look at the wikipedia definition:

" a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of peopl"

The operative word here is set, so print, broadcast, radio TV, film when they all function together, it's propaganda.

Apart from the fact that Webster defines it differently, what would you call this in concert with the movie, even going with your notion? Again, all of his movies are dominated by an unsubtle populistic theme (independent of whether you agree with them). I call that propaganda.

Also, I didn't realize 24 was sponsored by the Pentagon :)

Considering that Moore pronounced Gupta's name just fine earlier, it seems to me his mispronunciation was intentional at the end. Now, I do not believe it was racial, but it was certainly an attempt to dismiss Gupta's reporting in childish antics. Just as some of Moore's critics hurt themselves by making fun of his weight, Moore makes himself look pretty stupid.

While Moore may be America's very own Leni Riefenstahl, he's not as effective. Riefenstahl persuaded the whole of Germany that their future lay in Nazism. Moore has failed to enact more restrictive gun laws, defeat Bush in 2004, and is not likely to have much effect on America's admittedly expensive health care system.

While Moore may be America's very own Leni Riefenstahl

Cute.

Rahul,

Are you suggesting that neither one used film as a medium to spread a political message?

OT, but Rahul #55..*wipes away the tears* gawd bless you! utterly, utterly merry...

y'all are reading too much into this, seriously anna, wtf.

Are you suggesting that neither one used film as a medium to spread a political message?

No, that is not at all what I am suggesting. But comparing Moore to a Nazi sympathizer is like saying Winston Churchill (I am deliberately not making the contemporary comparison because that is guaranteed to derail the discussion) is like Hitler, because both used armies to capture territories. The underlying morality is relevant to the analogy.

all of his movies are dominated by an unsubtle populistic theme (independent of whether you agree with them). I call that propaganda.

having a point of view = propaganda?

The very fact that his movies are so UNsubtle should be the first clue that this is not propaganda

Jimi wrote:

y'all are reading too much into this, seriously anna, wtf.

Well.....as a southern born white american that is teaching himself Hindi.....I can say that learning the script and the various phonetics has been a challenge...as the description of pronunciations can vary depending on the nationality and accent of whomever wrote the particular text I am studying.... So Moore, an American who is not and never has studied the language, would be completely in the dark on correct pronunciation. I really don't think grammer and pronunciation should be used as guages of "racisim" as folks all over the world mis-pronounce their own and other languages everyday....and I sincerely doubt their intent is hate for themselves or others.

The very fact that his movies are so UNsubtle should be the first clue that this is not propaganda

Black is white. Up is down.

Paul Krugman can be argued to have a point of view. Moore is a propagandist. Anyways, apparently, Moore's techniques produces quite an emotional response among people, so I'll let this sit for a while and comment later.

Considering that Moore pronounced Gupta's name just fine earlier, it seems to me his mispronunciation was intentional at the end.

I have seen many whites pronounce Gupta as Goopta.

Are you kidding me? Moore might dislike Dr. Gupta, but racist? He probably is deliberately mispronouncing his name, but that is probably to emphasize Moore's contempt for Gupta's facts.

there's something happening here but i don't know what it is. do you mr jones.

Oh, Manju, you have many contacts to get you facts. You are very well read, it's well known. So, I'll hand you a bone.

awww, you two are cute. thanks for soothing my jingle-jangle morning weariness :)

that is bush league.

Michael Moore's comment was in response to Gupta's crits on the "Anderson Cooper 360" show. I saw this via google:

CNN's Gupta Fact Checks Michael Moore's 'Sicko'

As far as the healthcare debate, I was sick in the fall, and 7 months later, yesterday in fact, finished settling my healthcare bills--having accumulated 250 pieces of paper from health insurance company and the 3 separate billing agencies used by the hospital. I successfully disputed 8 of the incorrectly re-imbursed insurance claims, and made 47 separate payments ranging from $10.41 to $700+. And I have "good" healthcare insurance ... in reference to Michael Moore-- having met people screwed by the system I don't think Moore meant anything by it--and I understand the frustration with a cheerleader "Gupta" personality or Jones/Davis/Chang/etc/etc.

(By the way, Gawande's writings are excellent, read Better on a recent sunday afternoon.)

I did not see any racism period and there was no Apu channeling whatsoever.

I second that.

Let's move from this side distraction to real issues, which there are plenty of.

Paul Krugman can be argued to have a point of view. Moore is a propagandist. Anyways, apparently, Moore's techniques produces quite an emotional response among people, so I'll let this sit for a while and comment later.

Rahul, cheers.. but I do think Moore has a point of view. And I would take a Moore documentary any day over television, which is inundated with propaganda (among them commercials,corporate news items, paid product placements, product ads passing as news,vapid and stupid talk shows, and most of all the very narrow predetermined frame of argument often taken for granted even in the "best" news programs/shows).

When fellow CNN anchors mispronounce "Gupta" all the time, how can you claim this is racist if Moore mispronounces it??

Much ado about nothing!

I don't think a guy like Micheal Moore grew up with a lot of Guptas. If it was someone in their 20's maybe there'd be something there.

I'm surprised that Moore can say anything right when he's about to pop a blood vessel over yet another argument.

In that breitbart.tv link it is titled the "indian" anchor . I thought Sanjay was an american citizen ? If people are alluding to his desi background shouldn't he be called "indian american"

I used to get bothered by such things, but now it doesnt bother me. I just liken it to someone calling african americans black. So Indian could be used in a racial context rather than a nationality one, kind of like Hispanic.

For those who are reading challenged:

Anna didn't find this story on her own, one of you submitted it.

For the record, she does not find it racist. See:

Thank you a dozen times for mentioning what you did. Who, indeed, because some have not realized-- it's not me. I wouldn't have put it on the news tab because I didn't think it was racist. But I respect all of you readers and am not so sure of myself, that I'd let my decision be your decision, if that makes sense. The person who submitted the story was a lurker; I wanted to see if they had company among mutineers.

Again, I didn't come up with this story, one of YOU did. I wanted to know what the REST of you thought.

Can people distinguish between an open discussion, which is what I was trying to initiate and me writing "THIS IS RACIST! THIS IS AWFUL!"

Jimi: your "wtf, Anna" was totally unnecessary. The post is posing a simple question. An

"I agree he did"
or
"No, he didn't slur"

will suffice; no need to attack the blogger.

And I would take a Moore documentary any day over television, which is inundated with propaganda (among them commercials,corporate news items, paid product placements, product ads passing as news,vapid and stupid talk shows, and most of all the very narrow predetermined frame of argument often taken for granted even in the "best" news programs/shows).

I agree with you here, sigh!. The "dark side" seems to have Limbaugh, Coulter, Dobbs, and Robertson who will instigate and provoke on their behalf. And then you have the news media which is influenced by commercial and political lobbies behind the scenes. So I will gladly stomach Moore's shrill demagoguery, Gore's preachiness, and Huffington's ceaseless self-promotion for whatever firepower they can provide to the joke that is "left of center." No one's perfect.

A non-story.

Fascinating to see insecurity of the author and crowd though - as if there is an extra defense field to attack anyone who slightly mispronounces the name or dares to call someone Indian because that person is of Indian origin. Really - aren't we all being extra sensitive here to attack those whom we perceive are "against us"?

Perhaps the one who complained about labelling Gupta as "Indian" may have been happier if he was labelled as "South Asian"?

sigh! and portmanteau, I agree with both of you that Moore's movies are far superior to the moronic monoculture of the "mainstream media", but what kind of bar is that? I vote with my feet on that point of view though - I don't watch TV (at all), but will definitely watch Sicko (as well as other Moore movies). But that's no reason to give him a free pass on his clear selective disclosure of facts.

I think Moore does a great job to create visibility around very important problems. The major issues I have with him are that I think his solutions are half-baked at best, and his fact-picking and penchant for rabble rousing can lead people to discard even the good parts of his argument. And that's a disservice.

Michael Moore has as much subtlety as a steam roller but I'm glad he's around.

I saw Sicko with a former health insurance VP who often spent time trying get valid claims through the system for friends/family in dire straits.

As for my own bill sorting mentioned above, I made sure to act politely on all of my phone calls to billing departments. This resulted in spending a long phone call listening to/soothing an operator who had worked at various hospital jobs for the past 15 years but was breaking down in the billing department. She was stressed out all the time from people yelling at her b/c their health insurance companies wouldn't cover costs. . . (my main main problem was the insurance company doing 1st round denials . . .)

(ok, I'm signing off of the Moore comment topic--on to more relevant topics . . .)

"slighty off-topic but who checked out M. Night on Entourage this week.."

Hhahaha... CAA is getting Night the Primo gigs....UTA might as well close up shop :)

Fascinating to see insecurity of the author and crowd though

Perhaps you missed my last comment or the first sentence of this post. The author? Initiating a discussion is insecure?

For some of you, your hurry to be blase and dismiss the "crowd" is such that you completely ignore the majority of comments on the thread you are so eager to join, which think this is NOT an issue.

I found it much more offensive when Michael J. Fox (playing some character I've forgotten) yelled "Gewpta!!" at a waiter character.

chachaji's right-- Dr. Sanjay says Gewpta himnself. Michael Moore was just shouting.

Now Sanjaya....Sanjaya, who makes people say Malakar correctly, which is a lot harder and is another reason I'm a Fanjaya, had a snappy answer to a stupid question-- a reporter asked him, what's the one hair-care product that you can't live without?

He said: Water.

I wonder if one reason Sanjaya does say those kinds of things, might be because his friends support him and he knows how whack the subtext is of a lot of what comes his way. I just am assuming he has a multi-ethnic group of friends being in Seattle and with his age and all. I would think that knowledge is a big help in dealing with things

Of all of the wrong things that Michael Moore said on Wolf Blitzer yesterday, overenunciating "Gupta" was the least of it. (And I support universal healthcare!) For all we know, it's a Michigan accent.

jeet, what facts was he wrong about on Blitzer? I'm curious. (Apart from the fact that he says Fahrenheit 9/11 proves that he was completely right about the Iraq war. He seems to have forgotten the entire conspiracy theory, army recruiting etc. parts of his own movie. Wolf Blitzer also says that CNN tried to get Moore multiple times in the 3 years since he was last on, but he never showed. I assume he's not lying about that, since Moore didn't contradict him. That doesn't absolve CNN of the things Moore accuses them of about the Iraq war though).

If 90% of the people made this pronunciation, it would not be a big deal. Moore holds himself up as some sort of paragon of liberalism and enlightenment. That's why it's worth questioning whether this was racist.

I watched like 5 minutes of the Blitzer interview but couldn't watch anymore after the 20th time he asked for an apology from Wolf. Some ego Moore has. There's some families who have lost children, husbands, wives, brothers, and sisters, and Moore wants an apology for himself.

I actually am a liberal. I just find Moore's arguments lacking in subtlety. There's been much better political documentaries in the last few years, including The Corporation, An Inconvenient Truth, Gunner Palace, Fog of War etc.

Rahul writes:

>>Moore does a great job to create visibility around very important problems....his solutions are half-baked at best

This is a characterstic that's common to not just those from the left/liberal but also from those who are from the right/conservative.

The liberal/left correctly points out problems regarding healthcare/GlobalWarming/immigration/economy etc, but their solutions (socialized medicine/Carbon emission restrictions/Amnesity/Higher Taxes) worsen the problem, not to mention create a few new problems (poverty, increased crime etc) in the process.

The conservative/right correctly points out problems regarding terrorism/moral values/Social Security/immigration etc, but their solutions too (wanton war/privatization of SS/wall building) worsen the problem and create new problems (death/destruction, hatred for America, corruption, waste of tax dollars) in the process.

If only Ron Paul could get elected...

M. Nam

Apart from the fact that Webster defines it differently, what would you call this in concert with the movie, even going with your notion? Again, all of his movies are dominated by an unsubtle populistic theme (independent of whether you agree with them). I call that propaganda.

Those are his websites. It's still just him. Yes I know he's overweight, but he's still just a single person. It's not a system, and propaganda implies a systematic spreading of ideas, so eloquently stated in websters.

Also, I didn't realize 24 was sponsored by the Pentagon :)

You learn something new every day.

HMF, are you saying individuals are definitionally incapable of engaging in propaganda? (Also, were you looking at a different Webster's page, because mine doesn't say systematic). In any case, systematic can very well mean "following a system", individuals can be systematic too. Alright, enough with the EBL :)

As for the link you sent me, so the Heritage Foundation (which is different than the Pentagon. Just because you sleep with somebody doesn't mean you are them) discusses terrorism with the 24 team. Sure, they need something to feed their often wild fantasies, right? Who better than a colorful right wing creative type?

I don’t know why the anonymous tipper thought this was worth watching, to be upset by this is a little too al sharpton-esque for me…when the PC filters are turned up so high…how does one hear the actual message?

In fact, if there's any propagandizing going on, it's the categorization of Michael Moore's films as propaganda.

I don’t know why the anonymous tipper thought this was worth watching, to be upset by this is a little too al sharpton-esque for me…

I'm actually very glad this discussion is happening, because it's reassuring to see so many people who are on the same page about how to interpret such instances and what to prioritize.

HMF, are you saying individuals are definitionally incapable of engaging in propaganda?

As individuals, yes, that's what I'm saying. But more so than engaging, they are incapable of producing it. But they are capable of participating it, if it's done at a group level.

It wasn't miriam websters definition I was looking at, my bad, it was this one.

"But more so than engaging, they are incapable of producing it..."

That's a crucial, subtle point.

But more so than engaging, they are incapable of producing it.

This is a hopeless rathole. Many propagandizing elements - advertisements, pamphlets, movies, etc. - are indeed produced by individuals. So, in any case, since that's not the discussion I want to have, I will say that Moore engages in propaganda with his movies, if it makes you happier :)

Michael Moore said nothing racist; angry- yes, racist- NO. I'd be angry too. Dr. Gupta needs to get his facts straight, he "fudged" the fudging of Sicko. Gupta said Moore claimed Cuba pays $25 per person in health care costs when Moore clearly stated in his movie that they pay $251. Talk about shoddy journalism! Unfortunately, Gupta came off as an incompetent sellout.

Many propagandizing elements - advertisements, pamphlets, movies, etc. - are indeed produced by individuals.

uh, I'm not saying that a group of people have to run over to the printing press and simultaneously push the on button for it to be propaganda. A single individual can participate in propaganda, but for something to truly be propaganda, it cannot be so readily identifiable as such. It's counterintuitive, but that's the nature of the beast.

Moore cannot engage in propaganda with his movies, if he's the sole, at the very least, a minority voice.

Why are people on the left so eager to dismiss Moore but willing to give a free pass to Beinart and Co.?

Unfortunately, Gupta came off as an incompetent sellout.

ah, but don't you have to be somewhat of a sell-out to appear regularly on a cable news outfit that's still chasing (and in some ways aping) fox news for ratings?

If Gupta hadn't parroted the party line on Moore (he fudges facts--he might be unreliable--he's far left, we're in the sensible center) would his editor have let him even have a segment at all?

This was not racism. This was merely Guptarism.

Shodan, if we were discussing Beinart, I'd come down hard on him too. I gave up on Beinart like 5 years ago. At least, Moore is half right.

Also, Moore has a bully pulpit unlike Beinart. I don't think TNR counts :)

Rahul and HMF would you agree on calling it "agitprop"?

agitprop: short for "agitation-propaganda," a form of drama that incites the emotions ("agitation") and then teaches social and political lessons to encourage the audience to engage in a particular political action. Clifford Odets's play Waiting for Lefty and the actos of Luis Valdez are agitprop.

Gupta said Moore claimed Cuba pays $25 per person in health care costs when Moore clearly stated in his movie that they pay $251.

The full factual backup is here

Rahul and HMF would you agree on calling it "agitprop"?

Agitation AND propaganda? What's not to like?

If you close your eyes, dial up the volume, and listen hard, after hitting your head on the wall a dozen times, you can hear him say macaca...
Developing...

Agitation AND propaganda? What's not to like?

my thinking exactly.

Macacas , please don't play race card too much, it will back fire. If you live in this land, be ready for any work of yours in public domain to be scrutinized , ridiculed and thrashed. If a brown reporter's work can't be judged , then a brown musician can't be critiqued, a brown professer's paper can't be reviewd and a brown actor's talent can't be questioned. Don't claim immunity using the color of your skin.

...after hitting your head on the wall a dozen times...

You should go see your doctor, hopefully it's covered.

Michael Mooore is an ingnorant, self-loathing, America hating bore. No one should pay any attention to anything he says, even when he mocks an American doctor