July 16, 2007
Feeling Sorry for the Sari [UPDATED]Fashion
A few months ago, Shashi Tharoor wrote an essay which contained a “casual observation” about how less and less women in India were wearing saris. Upon hearing about his thoughts, desi women all over the world gifted Shashi with a new orifice, via email, blog, essay, and voodoo doll. A few women, my curmudgeonly mother included, agreed with Tharoor’s lament; like him, they were saddened by the ascent of the Salwar Kameez.
[I do think that Malayalees who are my Mom’s/Shashi’s age are extra vexed by how the sartorial times, they are a-changin’, since they so strongly identify saris as part of the Mallu identity, but more on that later. Or not.]
Tharoor wrote a follow-up piece recently, which I discovered via the news tab. I’ve excerpted the yummier parts for your digestion.
On how graceful and pretty saris are:
For centuries, if not millennia, the alluring garment, all five or six or nine yards of it, has been the defining drape of Indian womanhood. Cotton or silk, Banarasi or Pochampalli, shimmering Kanjeevaram or multi-coloured bandhani, with the pallav draped front-to-back over the left shoulder or in the Gujarati style back-to-front over the right, the sari has stood the test of time, climate and body shape.
Of all the garments yet invented by man (or, not to be too sexist about it, mankind) the sari did most to flatter the wearer. Unlike every other female dress on the planet, the sari could be worn with elegance by women of any age, size or shape: you could never be too fat, too short or too ungainly to look good in a sari. Indeed, if you were stout, or bowlegged, or thick-waisted, nothing concealed those handicaps of nature better than the sari. Women looked good in a sari who could never have got away with appearing in public in a skirt.
Tharoor is less caustic and more rational than my elderly Aunts are, about how much the North is to blame:
So why has this masterpiece of feminine attire begun fading from our streets? On recent visits home to India I have begun to notice fewer and fewer saris in our public places, and practically none in the workplace. The salwar kameez, the trouser and even the Western dress-suit have begun to supplant it everywhere. And this is not just a northern phenomenon, the result of the increasing dominance of our culture by Punjabi-ised folk who think nothing of giving masculine names to their daughters.
At a recent Press conference I addressed in Trivandrum, there were perhaps a dozen women journalists present. Only one was wearing a sari: the rest, all Keralites without exception, were in salwar-kameezes. And when I was crass enough to ask why none of the “young ladies” present wore saris, the one who did modestly suggested that she was no longer very young.
Actually, it’s the youths! And the feminists!
Youth clearly has something to do with it; very few of today’s under-30 women seem to have the patience for draping a sari, and few of them seem to think it suitable for the speed with which they scurry through their lives. (“Try rushing to catch a bus in a sari,” one young lady pointedly remarked, “and you’ll switch to jeans the next day.”)
But there’s also something less utilitarian about their rejection of the sari for daily wear. Today’s younger generation of Indian women seem to associate the garment with an earlier era, a more traditional time when women did not compete on equal terms in a man’s world. Putting on pants, or a Western woman’s suit, or even desi leggings in the former of a salwar, strikes them as more modern.
Freeing their legs to move more briskly than the sari permits is, it seems, a form of liberation; it removes a self-imposed handicap, releasing the wearer from all the cultural assumptions associated with the traditional attire.
I’ve noticed this about brown people, too. We are the last ones to keep it old skool in our “costumes” (Blech. I hate that word. As if I’d wear Kanjeevaram on October 31. Meh.):
I think this is actually a great pity. One of the remarkable aspects of Indian modernity has always been its unwillingness to disown the past; from our nationalists and reformers onwards, we have always asserted that Indians can be modern in ancient garb. Political ideas derived from nineteenth and twentieth-century thinkers have been articulated by men in mundus and dhotis that have not essentially changed since they were first worn two or three thousand years ago. (Statuary from the days of the Indus Valley Civilisation more than four thousand years ago show men draped in waistcloths that Mr Karunanidhi would still be happy to don.)
Gandhiji demonstrated that one did not have to put on a Western suit to challenge the British empire; when criticised by the British Press for calling upon the King in his simple loincloth, the Mahatma mildly observed, “His Majesty was wearing enough clothes for the two of us”. Where a Kemal Ataturk in Turkey banned his menfolk’s traditional fez as a symbol of backwardness and insisted that his compatriots don Western hats, India’s nationalist leaders not only retained their customary headgear, they added the defiantly desi “Gandhi cap” (oddly named, since Gandhiji himself never wore one). Our clothing has always been part of our sense of authenticity.
I REMEMBER being struck, on my first visit to Japan some fifteen years ago, by the ubiquitousness of Western clothing in that Asian country. Every Japanese man and woman in the street, on the subway or in the offices I visited wore suits and skirts and dresses; the kimono and its male equivalent were preserved at home, and brought out only for ceremonial occasions…
What will happen once the generation of women who grew up routinely wearing a sari every day dies out? The warning signs are all around us now. It would be sad indeed if, like the Japanese kimono, the sari becomes a rare and exotic garment in its own land, worn only to temples and weddings.
Find the rest of his essay here. Thoughts?
::
Anyone who makes my heart swell by calling me a term of endearment I haven’t heard in over two decades gets what they want. :) Wish everyone were this easy to please.
Click to enlarge.
I’ve read many of the comments below, which celebrate the beauty of wearing a sari “Gujurati-ishtyle”. While I have done that (with this very sari even!), I must gently demur— wearing one’s pallu the “boring” way ain’t so bad, I promise. ;)
And yes, all my blouses are that conservative. Not a word, brown fashionistas. Not. a. word.
anna on July 16, 2007 01:42 PM in Fashion · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
I really wish Tharoor had gone on to something even more irrelevant than writing about American lack of appreciation for cricket, and obituaries for the sari. Like becoming the head of the UN. Maybe he'd spare us his drivel then.
WTF is he talking about? Try being under 5'4 (what a stretch for Indian women, I know...) and tell me that it doesn't create bulk around your midsection when you tuck it into the petticoat. Never too thick-waisted? Have you ever SEEN an auntie with rolls spilling out everywhere? Yeah very elegant indeed...
Having said all that, like every other female garment ever invented, if you have a hot body, yes, it will drape perfectly and flatter you the way it's supposed to.
Though i wonder why Tharoor never commented about the slow disappearance of lungis, veshtis and dhoti-kurtas from the desi sartorial scene!
When I read that article, I was also like WTF, it shows off the mid-riff and if you happen to have extra around the waist, it will show it. I personally just don't think its practical to wear it everyday. I don't think there is any feminist conspiracy behind the decline of the sari, its just practicality that has stepped in. Like that woman said, try catching a bus in a sari...
Is that called the idli top?
i feel sorry for the sari, but more so for suri.
The cognitive dissonance in this posed photo of his on the website for the essay, is so thick, you could wrap it around yourself and have enough left over to tuck it in.
As opposed to the ubiquitous muffin top plaguing college campuses and malls near you.
Thanks for making me laugh out loud!
People are critical of Tharoor's piece for many reasons, some probably valid, but at the end of the day, he makes a simple, objective point...the sari is fading away, at least among the middle and upper classes. This is part of a general trend in India of many 'traditional' phenomena fading away. In a way, the fading away of the Sikh turban is part of the same trend. Our dying languages (again, for now mostly in the middle and upper classes) are part of the same trend. These things are not happening in isolation, and these things should be noticed and commented upon, even if the outcome is still (perhaps) inevitable.
well, why did the latinized elites eventually switch to trousers from their customary togas? part of it was barbarian conquest and elite emulation, but the toga was not the most practical (it does get cold even in italy) piece of dress. i think saris look nice, but my mom only wears it for "special" occasions now. was different when she was younger. times change. the "business suit" is a puritan derived piece of dress, but its success over the elegant gaudiness of "cavalier" wear probably has to do with its relative simplicity. of course, if tharoor has such a hard on for saris, he should wear them himself ;-)
By the way...the sari model....HOT.
Sorry but I disagree with Mr. Tharoor. Firstly a man shouldn't be telling a woman the values of wearing a sari and then put her down for choosing not to. Unless you have to live your life wearing one it's ridiculous to have an opinion on it other than it's pleasing to your eye perhaps.
And I think it's always been a politically correct and forced notion that a sari makes everyone look good. NOT. Some people really just don't look good in it or know how to wear it. And why do people consider the sari a national thing? Different regions of India don't wear saris, it's perfectly OK to accept that. The feminist conspiracy is irritating at best. My mother for a lack of any other word had no options but to wear a sari thru all of med school and residency and completely respects why I shy away from it.
I personally find it cumbersome, find nothing comfortable about showing flases of my midriff and while I find them occassionally gorgeous find a lot of comfort and femininity in outfits that cover me more with far lesser fabric. The way I see it, I'll have plenty of opportunities when I get old to wear it, when other outfits I can wear now will be unflattering and inappropriate. Spare me the lecture why I should wear it now.
You're welcome, bess. Don't eat the poppy seed idli at your neighboring Udipi restaurant, though.
Amitabh, as I read the essay, I was reminded of you :) Rage, rage against the dying of the light, my friend!
He really is taking the UN loss to heart.
I gotta agree with Zen @ #2. The first time I went to India, I was surprised (and kinda disgusted) by old aunties' who had the flab around their waists/stomach hanging out of their saris. And whats with the author being so anti-Punjabi/Northern Indian (the masculine name part has nothing to do with this)?
The sari doesn't have that problem. This could be the new status symbol.
(
Yeah that was totally stupid.
JOAT, I agree. It reminded me of how my father always comments on how Indian women look best in Saris in a room full of women wearing "Punjabi dresses" or pants. Of course he also says other brilliant things like, "Ever notice how air hostesses aren't as pretty as they used to be?"
amitabh, the model is dipannita sharma.
i have so much to say on this issue, because it is one with which i have, well, issues. but for now, i say to zen - that's only if the pallu/aanchal is draped to show a large surface area of stomach (rolls). there is a very elegant way of draping, which does not involve pleating the pallu at the shoulder, and this is, possibly the draping style to which tharoor is referring (as shown on the model above). for body flaws, this works best, i think, and often looks a lot better than even those styles which hotter figures can support.
I don't care whether woman is short or tall, slim or round, black or white or brown or yellow, or orange or green or any color for that matter. Good old Sari will make her look best - if properly worn - period. I agree with Sashi. You know what? Somehow though, I feel that it will survive - say - my be another 5000 years. A man can dream ...can't he?
maybe tharoor should see this
Anyone who tells others how to live their personal life (dress, food etc) is a mullah at heart.
M. Nam
By the way...the sari model....HOT.
d00d, chill on the sexism. we're trying to keep this a "safe place."
I'm feeling sorry for the English language.
An interesting aspect is how south Asians have held on to their women's clothing tradition longer than that of the males (as mentioned in Anna's blog and other comments). I used to attribute it to the fact that it was exclusively the male population that worked directly for the Brits - hence the early conversion of male attire. I remember umpteen old pictures of grandparents with the male in a 3 piece suit and the female in her grand Kanchipuram.
But I wonder why the same did not happen in Africa. Any takers?
Places like Eastern Europe, Japan, China etc. seem to have had a more gender neutral change to adopt western attire.
Interesting post. And I agree that Tharoor has gone off the deep end, gone bye bye..etc.
sorry to be an asinine pedant, but it should be fewer and fewer women in India were wearing saris
The cognitive dissonance in this posed photo of his on the website for the essay, is so thick, you could wrap it around yourself and have enough left over to tuck it in.
Love this comment! Hasn't anyone made Tharoor's own hypocrisy clear to him?! I can understand his lament of the falling away of an often-elegant example of tradition, but he should lay off this topic until he makes a personal effort to start bringing lunghi back.
LOL Well I suppose even the dreaded idli top trumps the ubiquitous Shalwar Khameez/sneakers/cardigan combo.
Dude, if you can't comment on a model's looks, then things have gone too far.
But I wonder why the same did not happen in Africa. Any takers?
SariMaker, to what exactly are you referring above? In most parts of West Africa, one gets a sense of the same thing happening -- one is likely to see many more women than men in urban areas wearing traditional clothing.
Dude, if you can't comment on a model's looks, then things have gone too far.
Models are maa-bahen to somebody. Nobody wants their maa-bahen to be objectified.
Don't be hatin, please ... but I, for one, think Indian women look gorgeous in saris. Granted, I'm not a woman and I don't have to deal with wearing one and all those issues and complaints and what not. But I think they do flatter women, and there's something about a woman wrapped up in yards of fabric that makes me feel a little crazy. And I'm not talking about models. There are so many beautiful Indian women out there.
Aunties with idli tops and dosa arms are another story, though. They are welcome to move on from the sari.
I bow to your encyclopedic knowledge and quick recall of models.
Rep-ra-zent. I hear it was the discarded title for a recent Justin Timberlake song.
Just a quick question, does anyone else like the lengha/ghagra more than the salwaar kameez or the sari, or both? Even though I think lenghas are more attractive, the definently aren't for everyday wear.
Kusala - thanks for the clarification. I have not been to Africa and was making an assumption based on the folks I see in the US. When I see an elderly African couple, seemingly on a visit, both the male and female are in either Western attire or African attire - very unlike their Indian counterparts. Hence the question.
With Timbaland at his side, anything's possible.
"Dude, if you can't comment on a model's looks, then things have gone too far."
SERIOUSLY! I mean, she IS gorgeous, but so is Anna's sexy smile. Even JOAT's demure So, now SM monitors pseudo-sexist remarks?
The sari was suitable for the advanced, urban and sedentary Dravido-Lemurian civilization. Salwar kameez was developed for Scythian marauding where a gal had to be on horseback and ready for battle within 1 minute
I'm pretty sure the lungi is Arab in origin and did not become popular as a more convenient alternative to the veshtee until about 100 years ago
I don't think the male equivalent of the sari is the lungi but rather the dhoti plus angavastram or dhoti plus kurta plus angavastram - of course, when it supplements a kurta, it is no longer strictly an angavastram, but minor point.
Yeah, so let's not lose them either. I think I might have seen Tharoor at a book signing wearing something similar.
The sari model is hot, she also used to date AB jr.
I am a woman who wears a host of different garments (and wouldn't want to be sartorially instructed by a man, particularly not a Stephanian with THAT accent). But I actually agree with Shashi T's main complaint -- saris express an astonishing range of handicraft idioms and I find it a shame that those intricate vocabularies in weaving and dyeing and printing, so locally particular and delicately elaborated, seem destined to die out. And to be replaced by what: the mass-produced apparel of globalization, machine-made in some Chinese sweatshop?
There are hundreds of thousands of artisans in India who not only make their livelihoods from creating saris but are devoted to it a craft and an art form: it's beyond sad that they receive less and less support from the state and the market. What needs to happen is a real renaissance of our handicrafts traditions, with funds going directly to the artisans, no middlemen -- these are markets that need to be fostered. (Also, it's not entirely true that saris aren't comfortable and functional, though I can see that they're less than attractive in the United States, being somewhat incongruous with snow boots).
Anyway, it seems incomplete to see this as being simply about consumer choice, rather than recognizing the complicated caste and class politics involved when we're talking about handicraft traditions.
Aww..how timely! I had brunch with some girlfriends yesterday and one of them had commented about watching "Indian Idol" the other day and being struck by the disconnect she picked up on between the singers beautiful voices and their plain, rather dated western clothing choices. She said that the classical raga singer would have appealed to her ten times more had she worn a classic, tasteful sari instead of the 1980's-inspired baggy jeans/plaid shirt ensemble she was sportin'.
Personally, I agree with the camp that argues against the overall practicality and comfort of sari's. Anyone who's had to wear one for a a wedding will attest to the automatic sigh of relief that comes with unfurling yourself of the confining yards of fabric and unhooking the skin-tight blouse. The best feeling in the world is slipping into a pair of PJs after being confined in a sari all day!
That being said though, I have yet to find a dress, suit, or outfit that makes me feel as brazenly strong and sexy as a sari does. It's the way in which it drapes on you, the way it swishes when you walk, how you can tuck it just right and accentuate your personal curves, and how you can take the chedo and wrap it around you shawl-like in a cocoon. Couple that with a pair of sexy heels and I dare you not to walk and stut a little taller. And it's amazing how the colors of a sari can make you feel different as well--vibrant pastels make me feel youthful and light, dramatic reds and blues set a more elegant, romantic tone, and absolutely nothing compares to the smooth sexiness a simple black sari with just a hint of jarri conveys. *sighs*
So what's my verdict on the sari? I don't think it will ever go out of style when it comes to formal events, but I agree that it's absolutely not practical for everyday use. And personally I'm not so sure that's a bad thing--wearing a sari on special occassions just makes it that much more special. =)
Rahul,
Re: cognitive disonance. If you brave your way through the essay, you will find this.
"POINT conceded, but I should hasten to add that this is not a result of my own preference, but of the norms of international officialdom. Early in my UN career I turned up at work in an elegant cream kurta, only to have my Danish boss ask disparagingly, “who do you think you are — a surgeon?”
Tharoor's argument, and the essay itself, are ridiculous. Not only for his rude anti-Punjabi bias (I can't say anti-northern since the sari is widely worn in Bengal, also), but because he puts the entire onus of what he defines as "traditional" attire on women. Desi men opted for suits and ties a long time ago; don't be surprised if the desi woman on the go who is also rising quickly through the ranks opts for something a bit more utilitarian. He assumes that his boss would be more permissive of a dept. secretary wearing a sari vs. his man-kurta -- how does he know? Have we had a dept. secretary who was female and opted for such clothing? He makes much ado about nothing and manages to offend nearly the world over with each column he writes.
Sameera, the lengha is totally unsuitable for everyday wear, particularly in those hot summer months. The khagra is even more hot and unbearable -- it's definitely a winter outfit. I think they're both cute, but there are also so many different salwar-kameez styles that you can get by looking cute (and with enough freedom of movement) most of the time.
Considering Mr Gandhi has been mentioned twice in the excerpts, I wonder why the man who refused to use too much cloth to cover himself while so many of his countrymen did not have clothes never made a campaign for a societal change from Saris to something less cloth excessive (aka 9 yards and beyond) like the Salwaar Kameez.
As for Mr Tharoors concerns of the Sari fading away, crazier more inconvenient fashions have made reappearances and so even if we write tomes about the inconvenience of wearing a sari (which those who wear regularly will vehemently disagree with), it is too strongly entrenched in Indian culture to disappear. This is just a low period of it's popularity and it will be back with a bang given a decade or few.
I won't go too far into my reply...But YES! You can be too fat for a sari. Not all women look good in a sari. The slimmer you are the better. Now, the sari does help and flatter more women compared with other types of clothes. It really is great. I love seeing women wearing them and think they are absolutely stunning in a sari. Much better than some dress. Far how practical it is to wear one on a daily basis, I do not know. But I don't think women don't want to wear one because of some “old era” look. I just think when you have a million things to get done before leaving for work in the morning; it’s much easier to slip on a pair of jeans. And YES it is hard to run in a sari. Well those are my 2 cents. I think I have bored you enough..Enjoy your day!
The salwar kameez looks so suffocating on women. The whole thin legging portion looks awkward. Not to mention that little towel like thing they drape over their necks. Saris look elegant. If you are after praticality, just go for regular western wear. Salwar Kameez just looks like an ugly compromise.
Also, my advice to Indian women - look like the model in the picture and no one will give a shit what you wear or don't wear.
Me thinks, he is now grooming himself for an Indian Presidency at some point. Just like Ms. Rai--when she is too old and too rich and too bored to sell diamonds and dreams--will aim for the Prime Ministership.
Unlike Abhi of SM, I will never be out of work as long as I stick to being a conspiracy theorist.
I don't know if the sari itself should be credited for elegance or criticized for idli-tops. Unlike a lot of other garments, it leaves the "fitting" element of sartorial design firmly in the hands of the wearer. In that regard, the sari does rock. Not many other garments bring such range and versatility. For every well-draped Dipannita Sharma, there is an unfortunate Khushboo spilling out of one.
I actually think the way things are being practiced now are good.
Desi women (my mother and sisters included) cherish and keep their saris a whole lot more than they would before, because they've become the thing to wear on special occasions (and by that not too rare ones like a wedding, but even someone's birthday). Just as I keep my sherwani carefully (but to a much more compulsive degree, for them) they buy lots of saris and consider them high-art (heh). Meanwhile the salwar kameez (and derivatives), or those mix and match kurti-pants style remain the daily fare.
Ouch!! Boy are we articulate today. The words you are looking for are Salwaar and Chunni.
Also, elegance depends on your perceptions my friend. Being Punjabi, I grew up seeing a lot of Salwaar Kameez and Saris both and I think women look quite pretty in Saris but also quite so in Salwaar Kameez.
Pravin, I hate you. The salwar kameez is anything but suffocating (unless you are wearing the incorrect size), and it is not a "compromise between Western wear." It is a whole style of clothing indigenous to a region, and it is fully functional and can also be quite formal and elegant, depending on the style. Way to be a h8r!!!
Also, it's not a "towel thing," it's a dupatta or chuni, which, I'm pretty sure, exist throughout the subcontinent.
As a FOB in the US for 20 years I can proudly say that I have worn the suit exactly 4 times, 3 of which were for interviews! No, the suit and tie is not something that many desi men opt for, if they have a choice. I do wear lungis like this even now at home.
For the record, I love women in sarees but accept sadly that it is on a downward trend in India at the moment for reasons of convenience.
It's funny how Tharoor elegantly steps in it every time he pick up his pen. And I say this as a pro-cricket, pro-sari* guy. Sure, a brother can romantisise a piece of cloth, all five yards of it -- but there is bit of hectoring uncle-ji about him that makes even valid points unpalatable.
BTW, does anyone remember Jhumpa Lahiri's Time mag. essay on sari?
* I appreciate the craft that goes into making saris, but don't expect the whole populace to wear them for my personal enjoyment.
"less and less women..." in the post. Ouch...both the sari and English grammar seem to be disappearing.
I agree with ak, if a sari is properly draped it can reveal or hide as necessary, without the acquired pleating/pinning of the anchal...maybe people who don't look good in a sari simply don't wear them well? As with any type of clothes, some people just carry clothes better than other people do...
"A few months ago, Shashi Tharoor wrote an essay which contained a “casual observation” about how less and less women in India were wearing saris."
He should be lamenting about men not wearing dhotis as well, why not? Now, it makes sense why he probably wasn't a good fit for UN head anyways, if this is what is bothering him in this troubled world.
I think Tharoor urgently needs to write an essay on the diminishing contribution of Hawaii chappals to Indian formal wear. Followed quickly by a yearning for the halcyon days of Gilli danda.
Shodan, sorry, I didn't have the stamina for that. But way for Tharoor to Uncle Tom it with his Danish boss (Dag Hammarskjold? It must be the only time on record he ever expressed an opinion!). But I guess evidence of a spine would have been detrimental to his career prospects in the UN.
As a matter of fact, he did. Check rediff. He did concede there were very few people in politics like Chidambaram(Harvard Graduate) and karunanidhi who wear dhothis.
If Tharoor wanna be the new fly in the Presidents parlor, he better learn something from sweet old 'charity begins at home' Pratibha Patil instead of churning out this yarn.
Sigh!! That brings back memories, along with kanche
The sari is a very inefficient design. There is a lot of cloth wasted and then it does not protect completely against cold and is not optimal for warm weather too. Imagine going to a Indian style toilet in a sari....
Yes it is a traditional(remnant) thing and is good for some days. Aren't the men glad they got rid of the dhotis?
Camille, I concede your point that Indian men have been quicker to discard native dress as standard daily wear with the adoption of shirt and pant as casual wear. My point was restricted to the much narrower coatu/suttu/tie.
I grew up in Delhi and Chandigarh myself, but somehow all my pre-adolescent crushes were always on women who wore saris - beginning with my 7th grade chemistry teacher. While the married teachers would wear either salwar-kameez or saris - the unmarried ones usually only wore salwar-kameez. The chemistry teacher, however, was an exception - she wore saris though she was unmarried then. Don't know if that explains anything :)(Beta hunter, are you reading this?).
le - Men can be ad nauseam told not to hold their mom's pallus - but praising a pallu ??? That's now out of bounds ?
The man made his observations - He didnt dictate - And he has a right to be nostalgic I would hope -
The mullah it seems is in all of us
Chache, you are just a chunni hater!!
i've only read about the first twenty comments so what i say is definitely a bit of repetition but..seriously. is it just me or is the only reason this is bugging him is because its women? men's traditional clothing has gone and is definitely only worn by many when they need to invoke and underline the "indian-ness" of their being/attitude/person.
while i agree whole-sale westernization of indian society and culture is unfortunate and frustrating, the "punjabi-ization" of india or its diaspora is a bit extreme, so is the supposed observation that they give masculine names to their female children.i just found this thing rife with masculine mourning of the "lost female"---ick.
chachaji, perhaps the sari was more commonly worn when you were growing up? Perhaps you grew up with my great aunts? (kidding!) ;)
bess, I was joking :)
yowza, apparently the big women get no love?
sorry people, but i'm grateful for a culture that accepts larger women flaunting their bodies in beautiful silks instead of hiding in muu-muu's and bemoaning their flesh. if i had to pick between seeing my mothers soft midsection or seeing her ribs, i'll pick the former. to those of you who don't like the way "those rolls" look, you're free to look away and vomit your dinner while i enjoy my cookie :) given all the challenges facing south asian women today, let's not add eating disorders to the list, eh?
that aside, i echo everyone's sentiment that the sari really is the most impractical everyday garment ever created. six yards of fabric + 100 degree weather = not cool.
Funny. In Pakistan, the disappearance of the Sari of the last 50 years is blamed on creeping dehinduization. (A cousin of the arabization that replaced "Khuda-hafiz" with "Allah-fizz"-- also a new product of Pepsi-Cola of Pakistan (Pvt.).) I never knew that you also lost their Saris.
Camille wrote
you are living in the pind, how many guys (in India) do you see in traditional attire?
Pakistani men, including political leaders, continue to wear "traditional attire" -- the Shalwar Kurta (although some still think that traditional attire for a political leader is a army uniform). Although Punjabi-ization has replaced the "churidar" pants with the pajama pant.
The guy has clearly lost it since he was so unceremoniously given the middle finger by the *rest of the world* re the UN job.
Sir Douchebag clearly hasn't lived in India in a while - you CANNOT wear a sari all day, everyday, especially in the Delhi summer or winter. It's too cumbersome and uncomfortable - and for the many housewives of Delhi - makes afternoon napping very difficult. Moreover, a salwar is easy-on, easy-off. A sari, not so much.
Areem,
Good point re: the silkworms.
You can find "vegetarian silk" though!
chachaji, was srk playing you in main hoon na?
yes, it is quite comprehensive. i love desi fashion - both classic and contemporary. oddly, i am less familiar with the male models - perhaps subconscious objectification of their bodies minus faces? ha ha. but more likely that i pay less attention to male fashion trends. though i must say the kurta-pyjama is a very sexy look for men.I recommend "Save Darfur" saris for this crowd. Simultaneously philanthropic and aesthetically pleasing. Oh yeah, I went there!
(arem, thanks for conveniently picking out all of these sentences)
get over it.. the sari is nothing more than a ceremonial dress much like the Japanese kimono.
soon the only places you'll see them in will be weddings and graduations!!
Are you kidding, I play him in real life. Sushmita Sen, however, was playing the Chemistry teacher.
I've got to agree with YoDad and others who gave their vote to the sari. I wear it whenever I can and I love it. It makes me feel feminine, elegant and extremely 'put together'. I have climbed on crowded metro train and have walked all around Georgetown etc with it..almost three miles one day.
There is a way of wearing it and handling it that makes it actually very easy to carry off.
I'll gladly provide lessons at the next meet up if need be...;)
This thread is very timely for me as I'm contemplating wearing a sari for the first time in my upcoming wedding. My soon-to-be-mother-in-law is bringing it over from India. I am not Desi and have never worn a sari, etc. I'm a bit nervous about the skin-tight shirt part and the midriff exposure as I *do* have a thick waist. Any of you women have advice on how to wrap the sari in the most flattering way. I want to look nice and not show my stomach or waist. How about a longer choli with more coverage? Doable? Suggestions! Ack... etc.
Hold on, let's be fair here. Tharoor has a decades-long paper trail and the guy is definitely neither a sexist nor a bigot. He was doing what columnists are supposed to do, which is to provoke a debate. And judging by all these posts, he's succeeded. As to his own sartorial tastes, he's seen frequently in kurtas, and in South India he usually appears in the Kerala mundu-veshti combo at all his public functions. The blogger's comment about the world giving him the "middle finger" was distasteful -- everyone knows he came a close second in the race for the UN's top job, beating all the candidates bar one, only because Washington thought him too independent by comparison with the South Korean they've installed there. My friends and I are proud of Shashi Tharoor and look forward to his views in the Hindu and the Times of India, where his are two of the most readable and illuminating columns you can find.
Taroor's premise of the saree having been around for centuries/millenia is false. Like most things about culture, the saree has changed in form and design over time.
* Traditionally women(and men) in the Indian subcontinent did not wear a blouse and left their chest uncovered. Covering breasts is a fairly recent phenomenon and in some remote places its still not very common.
* Most traditions of women wearing saree involves wearing it more like a dhoti than the way its worn now. If you think about it, how else can you get any work done? Even today most women in villages and older women dress that way - saree's front end pulled back tight between the legs and tucked into the ass.
* All the talk about glorious fabrics and designs needs to tempered with the fact that most sarees/clothes traditionally were made of coarse fabrics and very simple designs.
* The salwar kameez has not always been the traditional dress in punjab but is an islamic influence. Shalwar is persian for pants and kameez is arabic for shirt.
I could go on and on....but I think I already displayed more knowledge than a heterosexual guy should have.
Well, in Pakistani Punjab, shalwar kurtas or Pathani suits have probably replaced the earlier traditional rural attire (which can still be seen, albeit less and less, in India). I think they are called 'chaadar' or 'chaadarey'. Sort of like a dhoti on steroids. The attire of bhangra dancers reflects that, as you can see in this song which actually mentions them in the lyrics. Yes that is Shatrugan Sinha. As for women's dress, I read somewhere that shalwar kameez is also (relatively) recent and until the late 19th/early 20th century, most women wore those big skirts (ghaghar? ghaghri?)
Pakistani men, including political leaders, continue to wear "traditional attire" -- the Shalwar Kurta (although some still think that traditional attire for a political leader is a army uniform). Although Punjabi-ization has replaced the "churidar" pants with the pajama pant.
Its Kameez and not Kurta. Kameez is of a looser and free flowing fit than a kurta.
Well, in Pakistani Punjab, shalwar kurtas or Pathani suits have probably replaced the earlier traditional rural attire (which can still be seen, albeit less and less, in India). I think they are called 'chaadar' or 'chaadarey'. Sort of like a dhoti on steroids
The chaadar is worn over the shalwar kameez and not in its place.
A backstory for those who are bored. :)
So. I was swamped at work, because I had to be at the hospital for the rest of the afternoon. I, for no logical reason, felt bad that you didn't have lunchtime-reading/potential "howling"/optimal procrastination material. My irrational and unnecessary guilt hit at the worst time-- I had approximately 10 minutes before I would be late for my first appointment. Skimming the news tab, I saw this, immediately remembered Tharoor's first essay AND thought of my own family's issues with saris > salwars. "PERFECT!", I thought. "Easy to post, tons to discuss."
Accusations that I am murdering the English language do sting, not because I ever proclaimed myself the queen of grammar, but because some of you have ("Anna, I can't believe you didn't catch that ___ in that troll's comment first!") and though I never wanted THAT crown, it now shoves my head deeper in to my shoulders, breaking my neck. It's a bit of pressure, as stupid as that may sound.
I admit, I did not proof or edit this post before hitting publish. Is that my responsibility, my choice and thus, my own fault? Sure. But I thought, "better something hasty, than nothing at all?" Was that wrong?
We have "gone fishing" and despite that, I was trying to initiate a new conversation daily, because I love this space and felt bad that you were getting abruptly cut off from mutinoxycontin. I hoped you would cut me some slack, because it's summer. Perhaps you should do so even if it weren't, lest fewer and fewer people decide that putting their thoughts online isn't worth the nitpicking. I'm not joking-- it's one of the first fears I hear when I approach a potential guest blogger.
::
I agree with Shashi, Yo Dad, Msichana and my Mom. While stuck waiting in various Doctors' offices today, I was joyfully, mentally composing a cute post about why, with one priceless picture. When I have the time to write it once, pray to the grammar deities twice and check it thrice, I'll see if I can get to it. ;)
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I was taught that fewer was for things which could be counted. Didn't realize that some of you had exact numbers for women in India who no longer wear saris. :)
"* Traditionally women(and men) in the Indian subcontinent did not wear a blouse and left their chest uncovered. Covering breasts is a fairly recent phenomenon and in some remote places its still not very common."
Now THIS is a cause worth fighting about...
Al Chutiya, I suck at terminology for clothing.
Are we talking about two different things? I'm talking about men's clothing. Are you referring to burka which women wear? I admit that I'm getting out of my depth here.
Komanams for Tharoor! Bring 'em back!
I never had any veshti skillz, and only a tightly hitched leather belt delicately masked by hanging rolls of cloth stood between me and Spoor Lam's vision of saffron balls waving everywhere on god's green earth becoming a reality. BTW, is a black belt acceptable with a cream colored veshti?
p.s. Also, I now feel remiss that I didn't quote his ENTIRE piece, in which he talks about veshtis and the male gaze and blah blah blah. More of you used to RTOA. ;)
p.p.s. Some of the words I'm getting blamed for, don't exist in my post! I neither fingered nor distasted Shashi!
"I neither fingered nor distasted Shashi!"
Yes But the poster was reading your mind :)
It's not the kind of music I like, but if you want to see another great-looking woman in a sari, check this out. This one goes out to anyone who ever had a teacher fantasy...
I feel bad that some made the grammar comments, and even worse that you took them to heart. I noticed the "less and less" thing but wouldn't ever think that's worth commenting on...
Try not to take the Grammar Police comments personally... a lot of us enjoy your posts, and you can seem from the comments that the issues you raise provide a lot of enjoyment for us readers.
Anna, this was a nice post, and we had a lot of fun with it.
Not that you need anybody's endorsement, or have to explain yourself overmuch, but that sentence is correct as it stands - the 'less and less' applies not to the number of women wearing saris - but to how much they are wearing them - that is, less and less. The number of women who potentially might wear them is the same, but those same women are wearing them less and less. I would position the 'less and less' at the end of the sentence if this is what I wanted it to mean, but that's a minor editing issue, not a grammatical boo-boo. Having said that, I did hesitate over that sentence when I first read it. That's why one should always read something several times before shooting off pedantic comments. Sigh!
Thanks, Kusala and Chachaji. Not that you needed to. ;)
chachaji - you are not the only one who had the hots for a saree wearing teacher although mine was an English teacher.
Stripping a saree clad woman is a far more enjoyable experience than the getting rid of the salwar / skirt. Also, a saree is a more convenient garment for a quick 'thappal' in the park or over the backyard fence.
This might sound weird but I have never been turned on by a salwar clad woman. Quite an asexual dress - eeks. Sarees are impractical for day to day activities but all things being equal a saree clad woman is my preference.
In Kerala far more men wear wear a mundu to work and college than in other parts of India. Better value for money.
Western clothing is great especially a tailored skirt or a free flowing dress. However a lot of Western clothes in India are badly cut and does not fall well. Hopefully, good designers will get involved to rectify the anomaly.
This talk of the sari fading away reminds me of my grandmothers era when a sari wasn't worn by the women of that generation. Instead a starched Kasavu Mundu and Neriyathu set, that was pleated and draped in a particular way was worn. Saris were for a different class and generation in those days in Kerala. The sari fashion came in my mother's generation, I think. I believe our Kerala mothers never wore a Kasava Mundu set with the long blouses known as chutta (sp?). They were the new fashion trend setters who wore pavada skirts, half-saris and then graduated to saris. I have never seen my grandmothers or anyone from their generation wear a sari, with the exception of a few, especially teachers. Nowadays I see Kerala women wear a settu sari that is white with gold edging on Onam or special events. It seems like an updated version of the chutta mundu sets our grandmothers wore.
melbourne desi, i see you have already figured out the answer to the question pondered in a suitable boy,'how do you fuck in a sari?'
It's funny...a lot of this talk of the sari fading away reminds me of Toshiro Mifune in 'The Seven Samurai" rallying his samurai brethren: who had become dinosaurs...seems to me that we might learn from this...fashions change but the spirit lives on.
Maybe mr. thuroor should wear a sari to work everyday, or better yet, why doesn't he wear a lungi/doti to work?
Amitabh, thanks! That was powerful stuff.
melbourne desi, when they make "Indian Halwa", you can play the Finch character. Any other places you have sanctified? Or places you haven't, if that's a shorter list.
In my opinion, it is not really about feminism, it mostly about comfort and convenience. Even though Saris and salwaar-kameez both are very beautiful types of clothing, salwaar-kameezes are so much more comfortable!
As for saris, if they are tied wrong, they look reallly bad like this or they look really good like the one posted above in the article.
AK - a quickie is far easier in a saree than with any other garment. In case you are caught in the deed it is easier to pretend to be just chatting. Been there - done that. Not having read A Suitable Boy - no plans to either- I dont know the background to the question.
I double-dog dare you to tell the next TamBrahm Patti you see, who is wearing madisaar (which is what you have linked to), that she has her sari tied incorrectly. ;)
My first "thappal" was in an Amby.
I'm starting to think Rahul remembers every comment ever made by anyone, anytime, on any thread. Be very afraid.
SariSorry, my comment was meant for Meena @ 105. Didn't mean to be random. That's Rahul's job. :DAmby / park / backyard fence are some of the safe places when one is a poor but lusty lad. One's abode is out of bounds for obvious reasons.
Rahul - Indian halwa / finch ?? educate me please.
melbourne desi, you are a great revelation to sex in the indian context. i shall keep your tips in mind - it would be interesting to apply something i learned at SM to real life situations. as for the background of the quote, it is a conversation between two british men in india soon after partition - one of them has had experience with the local ladies, and the other, who asked the question, clearly did not.
women should wear whatever they feel is convenient for them. the sari isn't practical for many aspects of women's lives today. however, the merits/demerits of tharoor's essay aside (and he has a right to lament whatever he wants), the sari, half-sari etc and other unstitched clothing in all their regional (north to south), east to west) and other variations, trumps all other indian garments for me personally. it may not always be convenient for women's lifestyles today, but they were worn before in hot, cold and whatever weather (but then women's lifestyles were very different, so maybe it's not the weather so much as the lifestyle changes). have nothing against the salwar-kameez (except those awful tent-like ones that make women shapeless, no matter what shape they are), but don't think it's in the same league as the sari (please, no accusations of hating!! just a personal preference). and i agree that the sari flatters more women of various shapes and sizes than almost any other garment (in fact i think any unstitched clothing from several cultures flatters people more than stitched clothing). to my biased and highly subjective eyes, a woman - thin, fat, round, square, tummy folds - looks much more elegant and stands out more in a well-draped sari than in a western-style outfit. it's subjective, but they always look drabber and less shapely in the latter.
AK - my pleasure. Wear a darker saree if you are going in for a quickie - it looks less dishevelled.
From the blog post by Anna
On a lighter note the above sentence reminds me of Ben Kingsley's (the Gandhi guy) recent movie - You kill me. In one of the scenes he barges into San Francisco mayor's ( or some local official's ) office in "chaddi" and "banian" with the intention of threatening him. Ben Kingsley ask the mayor if he is frightened and why he is not calling the cops ? To which the local offical remarks that the way he is dressed doesn't indicate that he is going to be very harmful
And to complete my previous post....
hearing this remark Ben takes out his gun from his chaddi much to the shock of the mayor and asks the question again. This time mayor is shivering and readily submits to the extortion/threatening that Ben had come for.