August 01, 2007
Who is SKINNY? [Updated]Musings
I wrote a post this weekend which questioned certain commenters’ assertions regarding how “hot Desi girls seem to end up with White guys”. We discussed that misconception as well as…well, a few dozen other subjects, but that’s natural over the course of 1,349 comments. One sub-thread which I followed avidly involved I-bankers and their (for some) elusive prey: the skinny, hyper-maintained, hot brown girl with stick-straight hair.
Some of you compassionately responded to your banking brethren, when they plaintively admitted that they weren’t sure where to locate their loins’ fondest desire; instructions, right down to locations, days of the week and yes, auspicious times of day (yo, are we brown or are we BROWN) were offered and happily accepted. Much like the original exchange which inspired my post on interracial dating, which is where this comedy of heir-ers was going down, what I noticed was that these weren’t one-off sentiments. To me, that made them difficult to dismiss.
The one word which kept surfacing, repeatedly, insistently, was skinny.
Predictably, evolved mutineers were outraged and immediately broadcasted it; even more predictable than that, the obligatory, “I can’t help it, it’s just what ruins my boxers”- volley occurred, so that there was essentially a stalemate. Around skinny. While all of them pondered if it was okay to come out and say that “skinny” was a requirement, and whether such a requiring was nothing to be ashamed of, I was transfixed by something else which was related, but not discussed.
What did skinny mean in this context?
To some, Kate Moss defines skinny. To others, the woman who is pictured on our left qualifies.
I like to know exactly what I’m offended by, before I gift someone with a new orifice, so I couldn’t get my outrage-on— not until this question was answered. Yes, yes…we should all eschew superficial everything and it’s terrible that we’re judging female books by their covers, but it’s also a gross reality. And I wanted to know how realistic these I(yer) bankers were.
There was another snag—we were discussing Manhattan.
It’s a rarified world and understandably, the benchmarks are different. Everything is relative (and apparently, if you are an Iyengar reading SM, YOU are all relatives…oy, how I wish that I could actually link to relevant comments from MY OWN POST, which would make my attempts at wit successful vs. inscrutable).
In most cities, D.C. included, my 450 sq ft studio is tiny. In Manhattan, my friend is thrilled to have that much space for her ONE-BEDROOM. In most cities, making six figures is awesome. In Manhattan, it barely affords the afore-mentioned shoe-box, rent-wise and that’s if you limit your methods for self-intoxicating to PBR (note: life is too short for PBR, my darlinks). Anyway, if everything is tougher, better, more competitive, more expensive and more EVERYTHING in Manhattan, then…do brown guys expect brown girls to be skinnier, too? And does skinny mean fit? Or just skinny?
My guy friends (the unManhattanites, if you will…I’m not counting the Murray Hill dwellers et al for the purposes of this fluffy post) would line up giddily for a shot at the gorgeous girl above. Would our I(yengar) bankers? I think we have a bit of a vested interest in all this; the majority of the Desi vomen whom I am privileged to know are curvaceous, if they’re out of their teens. For most men, that’s a good thing. My male buddies don’t like straight lines—on the roads they’re about to break laws on or…uh…you know.
Curves are good. Right? Left? Those are definitely curves, on the left.
So, as I said memorably (and almost 1,700 comments ago!), out with it then. Let’s have the truth. What do you want? Is the woman I’ve wrapped this post around zaftig or is she just right? Err, left? You know what I mean. And this ain’t no heteronormative joint. I’ll be the first to tell you that she could inspire me to discover a love that dare not speak its naam. ;) What about you?
::
isin’t that a picture of you ANNA?? or may be your sister?
While it easily could be, because my sister and I both have huge, bubble-like Malayalee kundis which resemble two coconuts attached to our lower back, and yes, apparently we also both have “thunder-thighs” like our helpful model above, no, it’s neither me nor my little sister.
I look exactly like that in jeans.
I am dismayed that some of you think that her thighs are ugly, but to each their own; we are attracted to what we are attracted to and that’s that. I bring this up not to call you out (S, you know you and labbie singh are my peeps), but to speak to the women who are lurking, who have body image issues. Because believe me, they are here and they are reading this. They inspired this.
I have no problems in NYC or SF or DC…guess my hatred-since-infancy of LA has protected me from an eating disorder, since I am a size 8, not a size 4, and that is too big for La-La land.
I like my body. I like it so much, I don’t give a shit about telling you the truth— I am 5’6” and I weigh a whopping 148 lbs. I’ve gained weight, since hurting my leg, because I no longer get to walk the three miles home from work. To go from walking more than 20 miles a week to not being mobile at all…well, it takes a toll. I’ve gained eight pounds, which I can’t be fucked to cry over, because I’m more upset over losing lean mass and the ability to walk comfortably, without pain or this huge, heavy, unwieldy cast on my leg.
To the young woman whose email to me on Facebook inspired this entire post:
Please stop calling yourself “fat” and “ugly”. You look exactly like this picture, I know, because I went through your albums and found one taken at a similar angle. You don’t have luck with desi guys in NYC because of timing, circumstance or that nakshatram with the tree or whatever— NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE OBESE. When you kept reading about how guys like Puli et al want “skinny” desi girls, in the mega-thread, they were talking about you, my darling girl.
I proved this. I proved my point.
The majority of men on this thread think that the woman pictured above isn’t just beautiful but hot, gorgeous, attractive, ideal.
Please eat your lunch today. And your dinner. And work-out, but do so because your heart and lungs and future grandchildren deserve to be taken care of— you’re too precious to starve, especially at your own hands.
To quote you, “Shocker. Indian girls have eating disorders, too.”
Well, they shouldn’t have to— no human should. Eat. Be healthy. Fall in love with yourself. Life is too short for bullshit, and that goes for all of you.
Thunder thighed-Anna, over and out.
anna on August 1, 2007 08:15 PM in Fashion, Humor, Musings · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
She was skinnier before I clicked and enlarged her.
First? Girl in pic Hawwt bod.
damn you rahul, damn you to hell
Meh. Maybe if she wasn't a Jets fan.
Is this like "hot or not?"
The girl in the pic is hot! Much hotter than Kate Moss. I prefer girls to not look like 10 yr. old boys!
10 yr old boys on the other hand...
Harbeer, I think that's a Nets shirt (as in basketball).
Ahhh. Asked and answered.
In that case, YOWZA!!! (Harbeer is obviously not much of a sports fan and makes bad jokes.)
hot bod, bad style.
....Meh... kinda cute.. not liking the hair..
It's more like me trying to drive myself insane, by posing that all-important question which many of us would love an answer to, since it shall determine whether we cowgirl up and hit the gym tonight-- what do brown guys LIKE?
I put this post up after
a) a guy whom I know called this girl FAT
b) a mutineer noticed my comment, was kind enough to request that this photo be emailed for research purposes and then provided me with, um, research.
;)
Too much junk in the trunk for my tastes. Incidentally, using an angled view like this probably isn't the best thing to do b/c it makes her look trimmer than she is. How about a full frontal view or a profile view (obviously of another subject since I doubt this one had a whole set of images done)?
This girl is NOT fat. She looks pretty fit. Her being fat is CRAZY talk. CRAZY.
oh and i wouldn't call her skinny, but certainly "fit" or "thin." skinny to me suggests something different -- more unhealthy, maybe.
is that beyonce, btw? or some non-celeb? (i realize you can't reveal this for the sake of the exercise)
I think Beyonce is a lovely looking girl. I,my sister,nieces,other girl (black) friends do not think she is skinny. In contrast to "mil do peas", or what ever that users name was on the mega thread, - I don't think there is a HUGE disparity in what the 'ideal' body side is b-w. It might be a different thing on how frequent the ideal is archived, but I think there is a convergence in American culture on what is fat,what is medium, and what is skinny.
HA! Truth comes out! ;)
He's entitled to his opinion and his rosy palm. Why begrudge him that?
Don't tell me that I should interpret this:
similarly to Jack Nicholson's "You can't handle the truth!" ;)
I don't see how she can be considered fat. I do have a [non-desi] friend who only dates girls that look like "concentration camp survivors" (his words). So this girl isn't desi eh?
Does it matter? :D I know desi girls with VERY similar bodies...and curly hair, for that matter. The question isn't whether this girl is desi, it's whether those mischievous, horny i-bankers were asking for this awesomeness...or something less?
Speaking of hair...Daycruz! You're Mallu! You HAVE to like curly hair. ;)
While you're at it, how about a back view with a little sideboob and a backward glance?
i swear this is my last comment -- but if that is who i think it is, i think that she is thin *in this picture* but she has definitely seen her chubbier days. i personally did not think she looked good heavier -- some people wear extra weight extremely well, esp. if they are well toned, others look sloppy when they gain weight (i am in this latter category). so, if your friend said she was fat based on this picture only i would think he was crazy; if he called her fat in general, i would say that's an exaggeration but not a complete surprise.
the girl is definitely thick. but not in a remotely bad way. women are supposed to have curves right? at least i think so. is she healthy? probably. is she "overweight"? probably. but not much at all.
In my opinion no two people are ever going to agree on the concept of skinny. The girl in the pic, super hot. Nice shapely legs, butt, upper body. Has nice hair. I wouldn't even in my most delirious moment ever call her fat. WTF is wrong with people?
To me skinny is Kate Moss as are most of the Victoria Secret Models. If you look at them on the runway they are ribs with some tits (some I say because those damn bras come built in with breasts in them) and butts. They are super skinny under 110lbs and over 6 feet tall. There is nothing healthy about that. This chick is nicely shaped not fat at all.
I'm chunky, some people might call me superfat, my Italian girlfriend tells me I'm thick and there is nothing wrong with that. What matters is that my man thinks I'm a goddess :-) Fat people need love too you know.
She does look quite thunder-thighsy in the ill-fitted, 80s denim. From our side of the world (La-La land), skinny is anyone from a size 0-4. Anything over a size 4 is fat.
she looks to be around 14-15% body-fat--a very healthy number and one I wouldn't feel guilty about supporting as it's fairly sustainable.
And yes, in my droll fashion, I will finally get around to saying it: the body framed by your camera (or cropping) is indeed very attractive.
The only thing I object to is the Nets t-shirt.
She's neither skinny nor fat. She's in the vast range in between called Awesome :)
Amen girl.
i'm pretty sure that's beyonce. it makes sense. she's wearing jigga-man's team's t-shirt, the nets. looks like he's in the background too.
I was going to say, though, that she is totally NOT fat. When I think skinny, I think underweight, a la SS's "concentration camp survivor" style where your collarbone is like, jutting out.
Then it should come as no surprise that the "answer(s)" are just as likely, if not more likely, to drive others insane. A query like this has no satisfying answer since the laws of attraction have as much nuance to them as the laws of physics. Besides saying "yes" or "no," answers will probably consist of one-liners or worse (misogyny).
On a somehwhat related note, did anyone catch this brilliant article in last week's New Yorker?
I just realized that the face is so important in perceiving how someone looks. Without a face in the above picture, I can't determine whether this girl is hot or not. Subconsciously, that also determines whether I see her as skinny, or normal, or fat.
Anna: Hmmmm... a Nets fan.... Woooohooooo!!! Care to pass on my number to her? Mebbe she needs a shoulder to cry on after that hideous deal to keep Vince at the Meadowlands at least 4 more years. And she might find that this Brown can do good for her ;)
#12
haha and we come back to hair!
Abhi, I'm with you. I don't think we'd ever move to a consensus. For example, she could fall within Saira's "la la land" (it's the same standard up in SF, btw!), but she could also be 4'11" and look curvier than if she was 5'2". Who knows!?
Also, for the record, I think her thighs look GREAT (not thunder thighs at all, just not stick thin)
shee loox good.
I agree with Post 15:
She is not fat or zaftig at all, and anything otherwise is crazy talk. CRAZY.
P.S. I had to look up zaftig. Quite the word choice! :)
I know some browns who'd be looking at her and screaming "Ohhh, estoy por acabar !!"
She's gorgeous.
From Wikipedia:
Linda Evangelista 5'9" 121 lbs
Gisele Bundchen 5'11" 128 lbs
Heidi Klum 5'9" 119 lbs
Adriana Lima 5'10" ? lbs
Kate Moss - most photographers agree that she's nowhere near her comp card height and is around the 5'5" - 5'6" range
None of the recent supermodels that I can think of has been six feet tall. See here for a list of tall women.
I know I might get flack from many on here for my next statement, so I apologize in advance. But, from my own experience in the visual arts, I find that many women who talk about other women being too skinny, etc., often have insecurities about their own body image, etc.
And, it's hard to tell because of the angle and clothing, but I'd venture to put her body fat higher than 14-15%.
Props to you for posting a picture of my girl, B:) To me, she is perfect. She's curvy in all the right places, fit and healthy. BUT, if you were to ask me to apply the word skinny to her, I would not. Slender, yes, but not skinny. Let me clarify before you think I mean to say she is anything besides perfection.
To me, slender, fit, thin all means that you are at your perfect weight for your body type, curves intact. Skinny is a word that connotates an Indian aunty moaning that you need to eat some more because you look like you are from Somalia. Skinny means you can stand to gain 10 lbs.
There are plenty of Indian guys I know who like SKINNY girls. I'm talking Mary Kate Ashley Olsen skinny. Girls who are all twig arms and legs and paper-thin. The only other requisite feature for them, besides all that narrowness, would be boobs. If they have some, that's like the ultimate body type to some of these guys. Stick thin with boobs. Think Gisele Bundchen, (who some ppl have the audacity to call CURVY).
In my book, Jessica Alba and Gisele are NOT curvy. They are skinny with boobs. America Ferrara is curvy to me. Eva Mendes is slender and healthy and fit, just like Beyonce in my book. But that's just me.
While there are plenty of Manhattan-stereotyped I-bankers who prefer stick-thin girls to curvier ones, there are plenty of other Indian male professionals who prefer a curvier stock of woman. As for the stick straight hair thing, I noticed all Mallu girls seem to have issues with feeling their best with curly hair. Sexy, tousled waves created by a curling iron not included. I'm talking natural ringlets. I've heard them say they are found to be more attractive and prettier with straight hair. But hair is another post altogether, which you've pointed out:)
OK sorry to break in with bad news but in case you guys haven't turned on the TV or on the wrong coast, there has been a massive bridge collapse in MN at rush hour.
Jeez, SM has become a relationship/dating/group-hug blog.
Not that I have any right to complain. You guys can blog about whatever you want, it's your site. And clearly, the post which sparked 1400 comments shows the stuff that the junta cares passionately about.
But it ain't the SM it used to be.
Good body I guess, but too much "bling" for my tastes. I like a down-to-earth girl, T-shirt and jeans.
Note: I realize this girl has a T-shirt and jeans on, but she also has 3" heels, a purse that shines or is made out of jeans (??), and earrings bigger than...well they're big.
Ok I'd like to revise, I agree with scorps1027 above, she's not skinny, but that is a GREAT thing. Skinny is a bit sickly, she's curvy and great, def not fat.
Example: I was an athlete in high school. At 17, I was an average height (5'5"), and relatively light, with low body fat (13-4%). I was by far one of the LARGEST girls in my high school (on a weight for height or size ratio), and went on to be one of the larger girls (among the "slim/athletic" girls -- i.e. not the softball players/wrestlers/shot-putters) in college my frosh year. I personally felt great and felt good about myself, but I was also regularly told that I was "big" because I wore a size 6. It was also frustrating to try to find pants that clear my ass/hips, but don't leave me wading at the waist-level. It took me six YEARS just to find jeans cut (relatively) for my body size. It was annoying to listen to my guy friends call perfectly healthy, normal sized girls "heavy" or "fat" [self not included, of course they weren't going to call me fat to my face :)].
I really do think there is something seriously wrong with how we perceive a "healthy" body size when our expectation of "normal" puts women relatively underfat and underweight for their height.
Oooh, please, please, PLEASE will you not ban me for that last comment?
She's curvy, I wouldn't call her skinny. And I think most flesh and blood men (and women) like curves - something to hold on to, right *wink*
To another angle of the topic - are the bankers and/or people with with banker going to share what they've experienced? In case anyone's curious - my firsthand experience with our desi bruthas on Wall Street is that they are hard up - oops I mean have a big HEART for amazing women like Mz. Accidental Enlightenment. I've gone out with/been pursued by several of them. I've never thought about whether my look exudes a certain skinny, straight-haired 'je ne sais quoi' to these prized bankers. (Honey, someone who works, lives and breathes the most boring details of the stock market ain't no prize.) Ok, I'm not skinny, definitely slim if I lay off the ghee regularly. Straight hair, sure got that. My skin color - er we shall not go there ;)
- Accidental Entrapment
Hmm, I guess that probably is Beyonce. Good to know, because I wasn't into her before either :)
Hey, I resent that. I wasn't included in any hug. Also, I haven't had a relationship in quite a while. ;)
Before I really seem like some jerk just want to add I hope any guy who pursues something with me does it not just because of my mind, but also the attitude towards life I have and the spirit I exude in everything I do. The real 'prize' is good chemistry of me+him.
Also, Pamela Anderson and Carmen Electra fit that skinny with b**bs look. For every person there's a different look they like, I guess.
Anna if that is you in the pic all I can say is wow and if a guy calls you skinny flog them now. There I said it.
Hey, I resent that. I wasn't included in any hug. Also, I haven't had a relationship in quite a while. ;)
some hindus believe not having sex stores up your psychic energies and crap. so look on the bright side of things de facto virgin.
i understood this post as being about what each commenter considers to be the idyllic image of a desi woman--mine would include a higher degree of muscularity than is the norm and those women tend to have lower BFPs than the typical runway model.
I'm projecting.
Those seem to be the accepted ranges but there definitely are outliers (endurance runners, fitness/figure competitors, boxers, sprinters, etc.)and you it is possible for some women to stay in the 14-15 range without great difficulty.
but then again, this is a discussion of ideals and mine is completely unrealistic.
I find this topic fascinating. But I have to run off to gym. Wouldn't want slip up and no longer be a size zero. Must try to be skinny and not thin. [Half joking]
I agree with the quote. But it's so hard to internalize... skinny brainwashing will take years to shed.
By the way, the girl in the picture has a great booty!
God bless JLo for making a booty not only acceptable but beautiful. I don't think it was before she became popular that it became acceptable and even desired in the mainstream to have "junk in the trunk" (individual preferences notwithstanding). Just look at how long breast implants have been around vs. butt implants... the white majority seems to lack in the booty department but us darker ones seem to have plenty.
So I'll go against the grain here and say that I consider her a little too slim for my tastes. But then, I liked Marilyn Monroe's figure. And I dare say many respondents here would consider her too fat.
Curvy or athletic (Jessica Biel type) is good.
The girl in the picture is perfectly proportioned, just like a healthy woman should be.
Abhi @ #5 said:
No, but this is.
Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I never had to wait until Jlo to appreciate the heinie things in life.
I really don't like it when the boobs are too big for the body type. Couple that with a flat ass and it's not very appealing.
Camille, my wife is always complaining that jeans don't cover her round ass. She absolutely hates hip-huggers. I've developed a subtle way of letting her know when she's exposing her rear; I whisper "crack show" into her ear. She loves that!
Dang. Here's a perfect youtube clip for you.
So I'll go against the grain here and say that I consider her a little too slim for my tastes. But then, I liked Marilyn Monroe's figure. And I dare say many respondents here would consider her too fat.
hey shaad, i remember you from EFNET #atheism. ;-) been a good 10 years.
I just got back from the gym and this is what I find on SM...
She's not fat, but she's what I'd term thick and curvy.
I'm a girl and I like the stick thin figures with boobs best. Next would be the Kate Moss figure. that's not to say I can't appreciate the Kate Winslets and Beyonces of the world, but to me what is most beautiful (not looking at anything else) is the stick thin boobs figure.
But one thing is that some women just do not look good stick thin and they look most beautiful voluptuous...so it depends on the person. For myself, I look best when I'm stick thin...I'd love it if I could gain weight attractively but the fact is when I gain 2 pounds, 1 pound goes to my cheeks - and I hate having chipmunk cheeks. I just feel everything attractive about me hides behind my fat cheeks.
So I'm one of those woman who look best stick thin. And even though I still wear a size 0 in most things, the fact is with my body, I'd consider myself chubby now (my fat ratio proves it) so size of dress doesn't tell me anything if someone is thin or chubby - it just depends on the person's body type.
after we achieve cathartic release on the topic of fit vs. skinny vs. fat girls (and how men are evil for having preferences...), how about a post on Short Men?
Anna, I am having a hard time telling whether she is fat or skinny. Please add another picture where those unnecessary garments are not blocking our view.
BTW - she's a hottie ;-)
Muralimannered: If the Daily Enquirer has a cover story on a Tamil-English bilingual oak sapling we will know who the culprit is.
The girl in the photo...very nice.
10/10 for the body. Is she preening herself ?
I have a friend who brought up the short men issue in a convo where someone threw around the term "napoleon complex." It totally made me rethink/reframe how tough it is out there for guys who are under 5'6".
isn't the picture of anna herself?
Whoever the girl in the pic is, she has a hot figure. Skinny is as bad for a girl as is obese.
you need to be a best selling author and have fatwas put on you to even have a fighting chance
I can't keep up with this blog anymore...the threads and comments are just coming too fast! Which is a very good thing of course.
Small world, na? Good to see you too Razib; I used to hang around alt.atheism.moderated and the Internet Infidels/Secular Web quite a bit in those halcyon days.
Oh my god! Camille, I was not making a judgment on whether she was skinnier or not, really, as much playing with the word "enlarge". I'm personally not a big fan of this entire thread of conversation because I think it can go down lots of bad roads, so I definitely do not want to contribute to the "fat or not" aspect of the discussion. If there's OT snark to be had on the other hand...
thats Beyonce Knowles people!
Just for the record, I think the woman in the picture is unambiguously hot, so
I guess I'm not just into skinny Desi women....
Puliogre et al:
no (unattached) Desis at the usual Italian places--did wander over to Aquagrill
and chat up a nice (skinny!) Lankan med student (me likes!) at the bar--I got her #,
but felt it was fake--just called to confirm--and it was!!--damn--am sick of the rejection--
should I go here (seriously)--I have body issues myself:
http://www.indiaprofile.com/medical-tourism/apollo-cosmetic-center.html
Small world, na? Good to see you too Razib; I used to hang around alt.atheism.moderated and the Internet Infidels/Secular Web quite a bit in those halcyon days.
well, the bleed between pre-blog net and post-blog net has resulted in this sort of thing happening a lot over the past few years.
Re: 68, 73, 76
Um, Dr. Outlier (5'2") here. Never seemed to have a problem dating or "getting grounded" (if it means what it sounds like it means) as an undergrad or grad student. Mind you, they were all taller than me.
I think she has the ideal indian body and still would be in 2007...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOCGpOJ8YVo
Oh ye Rahul and Abhi, of little faith... ;)
Let me get this gay (to quote Jack): a female blogger who is well-known for watching over her threads like a half-crazed hawk puts up an essay and a picture for a justifiable reason, and we're suddenly worrying about misogyny? :) As opposed to the other posts we've hosted over the years, where there were hot women, less thorough commentary/context and less modding available? Forgive me if I find this hilarious. We lost readers because of the "M"-issue long ago. Those who are left here are hardier souls. ;)
Teed off- I won't ban you, you didn't do anything wrong. I will be a jerk and tell you to take your ass over to the Obama thread or one of the other, more erudite spots on this blog.
You know, I love it when I put up a post which I acknowledge as fluffy, IN THE POST ITSELF and someone whines...as if I have taken over the entire blog and this is the ONLY thing available on SM to read. I didn't delete the rest of this fabulous blog. Find what suits you and let the unwashed, stupid masses have their pleasure, thanks.
Camille is right. This seems like a superficial, unimportant question or discussion...but it's got far greater consequences than many of you seem to realize. That's fine. For now.
There's a method to my
madnessposting, whether it's obvious or not.This girl's lovely but I agree she could use some dress sense.
Btw, Randomizer, YOU ROCK. Men who truly love women are the sexiest of all.
I thought she was skinny. Until I read this thread. And developed a complex.
And this coming from a LaLaLand girl....
I personally hate skinny bitchez. I feel like they can't be trusted. And then I wonder what their eating disorder of choice is. And that's where the LaLaLand girl in me comes out. ;-)
I personally hate skinny bitchez. I feel like they can't be trusted. And then I wonder what their eating disorder of choice is.
that's a thoughtless comment; I'm sure no one could/would say that about a fat girl. Well I personally hate bitches in general, fat or skinny.
Camille - my point of posting those stats from Wiki was to counter JoAT's statement:
not to make a statement about my personal preferences per se. I'll leave my personal preference with my original statement - too much junk in the back trunk.
I guess it's a good thing that men like women ranging from super skinny to BBW and everything in between.
fyi... the last time desi derriere's were discussed on SM..
Ah yes...every skinny girl must have an eating disorder right? (if you were being serious, that is....)
There does seem to be a double standard on this. It's ok to hate on the skinny (I suspect that is what more people would prefer to be) than on the fat (this is what more people are probably wanting to head away from).
Hey, mutineers.
No need to walk on eggshells, over-clarify, unnecessarily justify or otherwise disclosure...-ify. :) The heart wants what it wants.
This is merely an interesting and potentially helpful conversation-- just like the one on interracial dating. Be honest and don't be a dick...which none of you are, anyway. Body image issues are real and worth thinking about...and that's what we're doing.
There does seem to be a double standard on this. It's ok to hate on the skinny (I suspect that is what more people would prefer to be) than on the fat (this is what more people are probably wanting to head away from).
Oh yes, there's def a double-standard.
This post is quite interesting.
For men, "athletic", "skinny", "muscular" and "fat" have clear connotations.
For women it is not so at all -- their bodies are able to attain greater curves and have greater "degrees of freedom" as it were.
What's more, it is possible for the same woman to attain all types within the space of a single year, like a chameleon or something.
Yay! I read all 1349. I want my prize!! Anyways, given all the haterade flowing towards engineers/doctors/ibankers, what about people who are all three? - i.e., if somebody did his/her PhD ("Doctor", haha) in engineering and works in an investment bank? Do the "alterna-desis" add a triple shot of hell before serving the haterade? OTOH, would the "skinny/perla" desis be triply turned on? Will the parents triply lurve this homebringing?
Anna, I love me a girl that hearts an engineer.
I actually think that, regardless of size, most women have some form of eating "issue" (whether a disorder or an inadvertent amount of attention/consciousness paid to food/eating).
NoDesh, thanks :)
ANNA, I think the difficulty with a topic like this is that there feels like there's a "right" answer on a topic re: interracial dating, and most people generally don't feel SUPER strongly about it. But, when we talk about size (especially a woman's size), it seems too taboo to be honest, but also taboo because there really isn't a right answer, but in answering people tend to get hurt. That is, if someone said "I prefer black women to desi women," I probably wouldn't be offended. I'd just be curious. If someone said, "I prefer rail thin heroin-chic models to women who are packing in the back," I'd probably roll my eyes. I'm not saying there's a huge difference, but I do think there's more judgment in assessing someone's size-preferences.
Camille, I'm curious. Why would you be offended by a remark on something which you have control over vs somethign over which you do not?
I'm feeling uncomfortable with this thread, though I commented above. It makes me feel like the time I was out with one other girl and a bunch of guys - and after a few beer the guys had this secret ballot on which of us was hotter. We conveniently came out equal (chivalry is not dead (?!)) but I remember feeling like a slab of meat. Feeling angry and powerless. In any case, I'm getting that feeling now, though no one's evaluating me. I want it to stop, or at least to have a guy up there who we can dissect too.
that body...out of this world.
that long island swagger... i could do without.
Camille, I hear you. I just want people to talk about it, because hopefully that means they're thinking about it. I really was struck by how often "skinny" kept popping up.
It reminds me a little bit of Bollywood and the skin color thing. What's realistic? What are we idealizing? What do real people actually look like and how dangerous is the disconnect?
You know, I feel so lucky that when I was small, the desi filim stars I saw were just as curvaceous if not rounder than the woman pictured above.
Far more people lurk vs. comment. A lot of the lurkers are female (which is a whole other pet peeve of mine-- when girls don't feel safe/confident/able to raise their voices...it makes me mad AND sad). The lurkers often write to me, when they're just about to burst...even as they find themselves unable to comment. Most of the time, I'm so moved or affected by their letters, I write a post...even if I don't explicitly state what my "inspiration" or prompt was. Everyone is entitled to look down on me for writing this, but I think it needed to be written.
Yes, interracial dating may have "easier" or more obvious answers than this, but I loathe the insinuation that I should somehow avoid topics because there's no clear-cut answer to a rhetorical question. That's not me. I think there are definite bits of this thread which most, if not all of us can agree on-- the double-standard regarding "skinny bitches" vs not being able to say "fat...", is one. I'm not trying to single anyone out.
Look, if it bothers people so much, don't comment here.
But don't say that we shouldn't talk about things, because they're "too risky"...that makes me want to break something.
despite protests of fluffiness, i am actually finding this very interesting, and informative - my guy friends are either too 'polite' to talk about such things with me, or they categorically like super-skinny girls.
I must live in a different universe. For me, these kind of conversations are actually a lot more common among non Indian circles. I have heard jokes about fat women in both Indian and non Indian circles.
WHat would be interesting is if any Indian women are succumbing to the ghastly breast implant craze among many women these days. Our regulations are so strict with pain medications and experimental drugs, but seems to have no problems with a procedure like breast implants which are medically not the safest and are not medically necessary. It seems like every other celeb has implants now. What about Indian celebs and rich Indian kids in India and here. Have you noticed anyone succumbing to this pressure?
Sure, no problem.
Which of you iBanking, ivy-alums is willing to let me put up his resume?
Personally, I find this post interesting - as from the interracial dating post, there were so many remarks by girls saying, "indian guys like the super-skinny" ----- nobody seemed to take offense then.
I think this post won't generate as much remarks as the "dating a white guy" post, b/c that post definitely generated a lot of heartfelt and funny stories. For me this is a post about short opinions among desis, stemming from 15,000 times in the other post, girls saying "indian guys like the skinny..." .
I'm curious - Why would you roll your eyes to this:"I prefer rail thin heroin-chic models to women who are packing in the back," ?
Would you also roll your eyes if someone said, "i like my women curvy"?
Divya must be busy with her i-banker--would love (sarc.) to see her views on this!
The woman in the pic is a little too slender. I have no opinion on her outfit, being fashion-challenged myself.
Here's a zaftig woman: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=933
THIS is a zaftig woman with class!
Nice word by the way - zaftig. Since it came from the German Saft (juice), I suppose originally meant juicy?
By the way, can someone with some medical/anthropometric knowledge say whether the whole endomorph/ectomorph typing of bodies is legitimate or not?
I dont' understand why there is anything to be uncomfortable about here. Granted, there is no right answer or correct definitions when it comes to size, it's all opinion. But, why should any of us women feel bad discussing this topic? I think women get depressed wayy too easily discussing these things and that is sad.
I think you'll all agree with me, male or female, it's all about confidence and attitude. When someone is confident and positive about their size in a non-haughty way, it shows and they exude sex appeal. People will gravitate towards them.
I think ALL women have body issues, whether a size 0 or size 22. It's sad that women have to feel depressed when discussing body shapes vs. something like hair types or dating outside our culture.
She's not fat. Though I'm not a fan of tight blue jeans, she appears to be a pretty and attractive woman.
Having one photograph and therefore only one angle with no other object in full view makes it hard to get ratios and proportions, holds me back from commenting whole heartedly.
Skinny Indian women? I find Indian women these days to be quite beautiful and curvy in all the right places. Actually I would say Indian women are coming into their own world-wide.
Yes, I know ABDs who've had implants...they weren't "rich", either. I think you can get those things on installment plans/via financing.
I think nose jobs are more popular, but that's just based on what I've seen among acquaintances, over the past decade.
since we are not walking on eggshells here, it is also a question of relative size, especially with desi men.
Many desi men are naturally skinny atmost athletic. It is then natural they'd want women who are not look heavier than them.
Just because men are "longer" (and prolly because of that weigh more) doesn't mean "part" weights of arms and thighs do not count.
I'm finding some of the rxns to this post most interesting, of all...
105 · Pravin
What about Indian celebs and rich Indian kids in India and here. Have you noticed anyone succumbing to this pressure
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I personally know a lot of Desis who have had cosmetic surgery, mostly family members--so, yes!
ak, I'm with you -- my guy friends are not super honest about their preferences, but I think it's because they're trying not to hurt our feelings. That said, sometimes I wish guys WOULD just say, "you know what? I am definitely swayed by X, Y, Z, factors, and I like the rail thin look" or "I loooove curves." I think some of the crappy feelings come from the hyper-prevalence of the rail-thin archetype and the lack of celebration around the curves-type (e.g. the vicious comments on the latest Dove campaigns).
Scorps - my feeling doesn't stem from personal body issues. In fact I'm an unusually and somewhat annoyingly cocky female. What bugs me is the forced sense of passivity these kinds of evaluations inspire...like the one in the situation I described in my comment above. I don't think men are instantly evaluated on their size, shape etc in the way women are. It's like people feel a right to annihilate a woman's humanity in favour of her shape all the time. It doesn't matter how hot you are. Honestly, being found and told you are uber-hot can be JUST as depressing as being told you are fat. It's about not being SEEN. It's about constantly being reduced to your shape, size, butt, breasts etc. That's what makes me uncomfortable about this exercise - the knowledge that women are always being minimized in this way.
No need to apologize, my friend. It was VERY broadly directed at all, not at a broad. :)
Oh, that makes sense. Color me sorry for not picking up on that then.
Thank you, for understanding that. I really, really appreciate it. The doing so "respectfully" is my entire goal. It's not easy, but when we manage to look at things that way, it's amazing (like the mega-thread!).
I also wanted to mention that Beyonce was about 10-15 lbs lighter than she was in this picture at one time for a movie role, and afterwards gained it all back voluntarily, deeming herself too "skinny". Although she was nowhere near Kate Moss level, she still felt she was too thin and lost some of her "curves". I think that has a lot to do with African-American culture and their standards and ideals of beauty for a woman. Whereas, if Beyonce were white, would she easily want to put that weight back on? I look at Black actresses out there and not a lot of them border the "dangerously thin" realm that a lot of White actresses do. The White standard of beauty is very different. I think minority cultures do prefer a shapelier woman. I've noticed even Bollywood starlets trimming down these days. I saw a picture of Kareena and Karishma Kapoor a few months ago and almost didnt' recognize them.
Is our body shape attractiveness scale based on Hollywood/White America or Minority/International standards? I think it varies for all of us and therein lies the differences of opinion.
I think because, if someone told me there was something wrong with me for being brown, I would write them off as an idiot. If someone told me I should lose weight, I think I would be offended that they thought it was ok to tell me what THEY think I should be, instead of letting me be happy with who I am, already.
Camille, in your sample and in the comments people aren't saying what You ought to be...they are giving their opinions on what they find attractive. Just like they give their opinions on what they think of the Taliban or Tamil movies or religion. Everyone obviously is attracted to different types; what's attractive to one, mayn't be attractive to others.
Anyways despite all the comments on the interracial dating thread on the fact that "desi guys like skinny...with straight hair..." most of the men who've commented on this thread have pointed out the above pic is hot and they don't prefer skinny girls. Maybe its just SM men (or women).
But I do think in India there's definitely a preference for curvy, rather than the stick-thin model types that seem more popular in the US. I just love the Indian actresses, even today (despite having a skin color so different than mine) with their lovely curves - looks so great on them. My mom used to have that look and I just thought she was so pretty in her when she was younger (now I see her as pretty b/c of other things but I don't envy her figure anymore) - she was one of those women who gained her weight in all the right places.
DQ,
I understand and agree with everything you typed.
...and I sincerely hope you believe me when I say that I don't support that, at all. I just had to put up a visual, so everyone was discussing the same concept.
When my friend called this woman (in this exact picture) FAT, I was disgusted. Then I remembered all the "skinny" in the uber-thread and THEN I checked my email...and that's why everything I had to do tonight was put off by an hour-- I just had to address this. I am really sorry that I've made you uncomfortable. You're someone whose words and presence I value, a lot.