I'm appalled at the idea of stepping on books. I actually like Payless for their vegan shoes but now I'll have to think twice.

thanks for this post, ANNA. just yesterday, i was thinking the same thing - how much i have refined, and strengthened, certain pre-existing ideas i had, while being challenged and changing my views at the same time. e.g. i used the term DBD the other day, and realised that it's not very widespread, even among the DBDs themselves :) this space was much-needed, and is much appreciated.

i took the test, too, and also scored a 7. though when i looked at the ranking system, this caught my eye :
10-12 Excellent. You have the blessings of Saraswati and the memory of an elephant
i'm not religious, but of all the hindu holidays, saraswati pooja was my favourite - not the idea that a deity is blessing our books (or violins or tae kwon do belts, as the case may be), but that education and learning hold such a high place.

If you click the link I just updated the post with ("The commercial"), you'll go to their site, where if you check out the bottom left corner, you, too, can cringe at the image I reacted to. ;)

Eek on the shoe stepping. Shoes were always meant to be only on the ground and nowhere else. You couldn't throw them about, you couldn't put your feet up with shoes on and a various other things. I was once packing and had a pair of brand new shoes never worn on the bed waiting to be packed and my mother had quite a field day with that one. Long lecture ensued.

I’m embarrassed to admit I got on "7-9 Pukka. You have not missed your tryst with destiny. And you know what we mean" on the Quiz. Only 8 right! I got the first Mutineers answer wrong!!

Whats wrong with stepping on books? I am surprised that anybody would have a problem with that in 2007 but then hundreds of millions of people face in one direction to pray everyday so what do I know.

Whats wrong with stepping on books? I am surprised that anybody would have a problem with that in 2007 but then hundreds of millions of people face in one direction to pray everyday so what do I know.

never, ever expect people not to have irrational beliefs....mistake number 1. humanity simply doesnt work that way.

on a side note, my parents' housekeeper has this habit of putting shoes on top of the bed/comforter, on sofas, and, yes, on top of books, when she is finished cleaning. at first, my mom was hesitant, but after a while she just had to explain to her that this was a big (hindu) no-no. though even if not a religious/desi thing, shoes (and feet, sometimes) are just dirty - it makes sense to be judicious as to where we place them.

never, ever expect people not to have irrational beliefs....mistake number 1. humanity simply doesnt work that way.

Yes, but lets do our part by not perpetuating bronze age myths (to quote richard dawkins) In this case, Hinduism, they even predate the bronze age!

There's always a conflict of the rituals too, one hot summer on a trip to Shirdi late 90's, and in the areas where the flooring was burning hot it would rip your skin off, if you stepped on it. Footwear was strictly prohibited (temple). People just ripped off newspapers from wherever they could find (booths and paper stands) and stood on it until the Queue moved forward to a shady area. I remember protesting, no; paper is God (or Goddess) , I can't stand on it, only to get a whack and being pulled onto a newspaper sheet my Sis was already standing on.

Whats wrong with stepping on books?

ACfD - I think a lot of it has to do with looking after the things we care about - i wouldn't step on books for the simple reason that i treasure all my books and don't want to ruin them. just like i try to keep my (nicer) clothes protected, or my jewelry, or furniture.

thats why i own a shoe rack.

ak, eeeeek! We aren't even allowed to enter the house with shoes; they stay in the garage. Or by the front door. I HATE shoes in the house and was thrilled when I had three Asian roomies-- they felt the same way and my predecessor, a white chick, couldn't grasp how much it bothered them (not to mention how it effed up the white carpet). In other news, who puts WHITE carpet in a "college" apartment (this was when I lived in Davis, on the "G" line, for those of you who know of such things)?

ACfD - I think a lot of it has to do with looking after the things we care about - i wouldn't step on books for the simple reason that i treasure all my books and don't want to ruin them. just like i try to keep my (nicer) clothes protected, or my jewelry, or furniture.

What if the book is useless? Like the 4 copies of yellow pages I get every year. I put them to good use around the house.

Yes, but lets do our part by not perpetuating bronze age myths (to quote richard dawkins) In this case, Hinduism, they even predate the bronze age!

my favorite shoe rack. it keeps shoes off of god. its holy. but, unfortnately, god is everywhere, even in the shoerack. therefore, using it is blasphemous. dammit. i just cant win.

Forgive the long quotation, but I couldn't resist.

I grew up kissing books and bread.

In our house, whenever anyone dropped a book or let fall a chapati or a "slice," which was our word for a triangle of buttered leavened bread, the fallen object was required not only to be picked up but also kissed, by way of apology for the act of clumsy disrespect. I was as careless and butterfingered as any child and, accordingly, during my childhood years, I kissed a large number of "slices" and also my fair share of books.

Devout households in India often contained, and still contain, persons in the habit of kissing holy books. But we kissed everything. We kissed dictionaries and atlases. We kissed Enid Blyton novels and Superman comics. If I'd ever dropped the telephone directory I'd probably have kissed that, too.

All this happened before I had ever kissed a girl. In fact it would almost be true, true enough for a fiction writer, anyhow, to say that once I started kissing girls, my activities with regard to bread and books lost some of their special excitement. But one never forgets one's first loves.

Bread and books: food for the body and food for the soul -- what could be more worthy of our respect, and even love?

It has always been a shock to me to meet people for whom books simply do not matter.

-Salman Rushdie, Imaginary Homelands

ANNA, i know. the first time i saw those shoes on my bed, and then another pair on my books, i was mortified. i almost forbade one of my friends from coming over when he kept insisting on wearing his shoes in my apt (also white carpet - wtf?) - it's not only dirty, but i felt it was kind of disrespectful not to follow this one simple request. i'm big on not wearing shoes indoors - it just grosses me out.

disrespectful not to follow this one simple request

it was disrespectful. if you go to someones house, follow their rules. a bit messed up not to.

Sorry, the whole thing was supposed to be italicized.

Are shoes prohibited indoors in all parts of India? I've been to many Punjabi households in Delhi, and Kol, where people do not remove thier shoes. Maybe it's an abberation.

Me? even my 2 yr. old removes his shoes when entering the house.

I'm appalled at the idea of stepping on books. I actually like Payless for their vegan shoes but now I'll have to think twice.

Should we write to Payless to let them know our concerns? Not a complaint, exactly; but marketing departments are usually quite concerned about not offending their potential customers, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to know that they inadvertently are, in this case.

im used to taking off my shoes at the entryway of the house. i went to a punjabi house in india once, they said. oh. dont worry about that. the maid will clean it. thought that was odd...

do they have (very good looking) dress shoes for men that arent animal made? most of the ones i see are lame.

so when I step on the book, I touch it with both hands and then touch those hands to my eyes. I'm not particularly religious but this is like a reflex, and when I don't do it, I feel...awful

scored 7-9 *phew*

im used to taking off my shoes at the entryway of the house. i went to a punjabi house in india once, they said. oh. dont worry about that. the maid will clean it. thought that was odd...

North India doesn't generally have a taboo against shoes inside the house. I remember my Southie friends were always vaguely uncomfortable with that. Some took them off anyway. I personally prefer the shoes-off model.

Oh, and in case you’re wondering, I got a “seven”.

Anna, congratulations! That was my score too. Either I've turned too 'ABD' or you've turned too 'DBD', or both :)

Anna, congratulations! That was my score too. Either I've turned too 'ABD' or you've turned too 'DBD', or both :)

now, now chachaji...abd's can get high scores as well...

From whatever little i know of Hindu mythology i think books=knowledge=Goddess Saraswati and hence one doesn't step on it. practically speaking u remove shoes while going inside so as to minimize cleaning work for the host since the roads/outdoors are not so clean in india as it is here. Both things probably makes/doesn't make as much sense as the common practice here to say "bless you" when we sneeze.

I find this belief pretty interesting ... Since though I was never raised to hold that as a taboo, all my Hindu friends did, and so I eventually got to see it a LOT .

Now, I don't have any problem following the 'Do not step on your books' , since, obviously the book will get damaged by my 170 pounds ... but what I do find at times odd is 'Do not ever have your foot come in contact with a book' ... even if your feet are clean after a wash .. or if the book is just another piece of junk... and all that happened was that your foot just touched the book. I think feeling guilty/remorseful about such contact is just a symbolic reaction...

The 'dirtiness of the feet' is a heightened idea in India. I remember reading that 'Shudras' were supposed to be representations of the feet of a God, which was one of the reasons they were at the bottom of the social heirarchy... I'm not sure if this is merely because ppl used to walk barefoot , or because there is some more religious context to it. Anyone care to shed some light on this ?

Arrem said:

Should we write to Payless to let them know our concerns? Not a complaint, exactly; but marketing departments are usually quite concerned about not offending their potential customers, and I'm pretty sure they'd like to know that they inadvertently are, in this case.

Really? Write to Payless to complain? I don't know...I too cringed a little when I first saw it, but it was mostly an automatic reaction (fear of getting struck down by lightening perhaps? ;-)), but then I relaxed and realized it's an American commercial where shoes aren't seen to be an offending item. In fact, keeping that in mind, the ad is actually kind of cute.

I'd rather reserve my protests for something that's obviously in my face in it's offense. Then again..that's me.

puli gets a 7. ok, i guess...

Found online....

Books, even paper, are always to be treated as the abode of Saraswati, indeed as Saraswati herself.

Thus, books and other printed and writing material are always treated with special respect. For instance, books are never to be placed on the floor. If anyone accidentally drops or steps on a book or any printed material, we do obeisance to the Saraswati in the book by placing our hands on the book, and by bringing the hands to our eyes. It’s part asking for forgiveness for having been disrespectful to the book, and it’s also part prayer.

The bengali version, though similar....

Books of 'Boi' is almost considered as the soul of Ma Saraswati. So, when one accidentally puts his feet on even a page of a books, h makes a 'pronam' in order to undo his misdeed of trampling on Ma Saraswati's soul.

blogs...

In short, Hindus worship books as a stand-in for Saraswati. The worship of Saraswati is essentially the worship of knowledge and we don’t really confuse books with knowledge, of course. Books are things, not knowledge. One can be fully respectful of learning and knowledge without being culturally conditioned to be very careful while handling books. Yet, we treat our books with reverence. If we accidentally touch a book with our feet, we immediately pick it up and touch it with reverence. We do the same thing if we accidentally touch someone with our feet. The idea is the same: that in people, as in books, the divine exists and if we have shown disrespect, even accidentally, we need to make amends for it.

now, now chachaji...abd's can get high scores as well...

By fluke, you mean? :)

This quiz (like the NYT weekly quiz) highlights how little of what is read is remembered, as also how much of what is provided as reading material is largely irrelevant to the main thrust of the story at hand. Then again, I'm just a DBD rationalizing his 'low' score :)

..is it just me, or does this entire quiz reek of india/hindu bashing/an intended cold shower to deflate the celebratory hoopla... ?

is it just me, or does this entire quiz reek of india/hindu bashing/an intended cold shower to deflate the celebratory hoopla... ?

Whoa, how so?

I love multiple choice questions. Especially some of the intentionally stoopid answers. Too bad, they had only one of those.

What happened on April 7th 2005 for the first time since the partition of India and Pakistan?
England won a test match against India

P.S. I have blessings of Saraswati. D to the B to the D.

Wasn't there a scene in Pushpak where the cleaning lady places the chappals on some magazine/book/photograph and KH winces? Classic!

Who is KH?

Here's where my Hinduism comes into conflict with my status anxiety--in his seminal "Class: A Guide Through the American Class System," author Paul Fussell goes so far as to provide a "living room test" by which you accumulate or lose class points depending on the presence or absence of certain objects in your living room. "Books on bookshelf" gets you a few positive points, "books on floor" gives you *a lot* of positive points.

Result--my (DBD) parents' living room--no books on floor, my (ABD) living room: stacks of books on floor.

so....being a slob is high staus...hmmm...

Who is KH?

Love this post! I have always cringed at the sight of feet/shoes on books. Books are sacred. Though recently, I was at a used bookstore when I accidently stubbed my toe against a sorry pile of Coulter books. I was going to do the book-touch-eye routine when I conciously decided not to. My interactions with books like with people can never really be completely accidental. If that makes sense...

Tamasha, that was a great quotation.

When friends and boyfriends use books as footstools, or even accidentally graze them while standing or walking, I freeze in shock. I can't even believe that it is happening and it seems like the whole scene is in slow motion- the feet slowly lowering themselves onto books, the collision with a stack while walking. It's like being in a car crash and being unable to scream. Seriously. Maybe I'm a little ridiculous.

Who is Sarika? :D

(you had to know that was coming)

Puli--my interpretation is that it doesn't mean "slob"--instead means--is constantly reading/buying more books so shelves are literally overflowing.
But that's just my guess.
I will confess that I have basically re-engineered my living room based on Fussell (e.g., got a worn "Oriental" rug, a stone obelisk, some artwork (*not* by a family member)) but perhaps I am a bit obsessive on this front--I do entertain at home, though.

The shoes in the house comment is interesting. I was reading Ms Manners or someone like her giving advice on people who request others take their shoes off when they enter the house. Miss Manners thought it was rude to ask guests to remove their shoes...my thought was that it was more rude not to respect someone's rules of the house...maybe its a cultural thing. We never wore shoes in the house and its almost automatic to take them off (regardless of the house i'm going to...have done this at white friend's houses too)...my feet feel more comofortable without shoes...which may explain why i never have my shoes on while sitting at my desk at work! hehe..

KH = Kamal Hasan :-) Brilliant actor.

Who is KH? Little known husband of ex-child actress Sarika.

Shodan, remember what Mr. Buchheit said. Don't be evil. ;)

During the phase when I was gradually becoming an atheist, I had a sliding scale for books and which ones could be touched with one's feet, or stepped on etc. For a while, I wouldn't "disrespect" books that were of some value, but didn't care about telephone directories, junk mail etc. Of course, I grew out of that too. Now, I don't follow those ancient rules, as long as I am not damaging books that I value.

Puli--my interpretation is that it doesn't mean "slob"--instead means--is constantly reading/buying more books so shelves are literally overflowing. But that's just my guess. I will confess that I have basically re-engineered my living room based on Fussell (e.g., got a worn "Oriental" rug, a stone obelisk, some artwork (*not* by a family member)) but perhaps I am a bit obsessive on this front--I do entertain at home, though.

thast a little scary. i dont think i thought of what my apartment says about my when decorating it. i just did things i thought would look nice to me, and would be comfy.

Umm, I got an 11/12. Not sure how - I had to guess on all the questions involving numbers.

Who is Sarika? :D

Would it be ok if we stepped on an empty piece of paper? Just curious how far this goes.

Tamasha, I didn't realize you were quoting someone famous, when you left your elaborate, beautiful comment upthread, so I thought you were coming out. I was all, "OMG, Tamasha is teh gay!!1!" ;)

Who is Sarika?

(you knew that was coming)

Tamasha, I didn't realize you were quoting someone famous, when you left your elaborate, beautiful comment upthread, so I thought you were coming out. I was all, "OMG, Tamasha is teh gay!!1!" ;)

I got 8 :-) does that make me a good ABD or a bad DBD? :D

I can never touch a book with my foot and confess to cringing inwardly when I see anyone doing it.Its something that is so ingrained from child hood . I don't know if any of you fellow Southies did this on VijayaDashmi : put out books/instruments in fromt of Goddess Saraswati to be blessed. Once you have participated in a ritual like that , its next to impossible to shake the feeling of reverence for books. I am so glad that there are many of you who feel the same way.

Its irrational but as irrational as fearing the number 13 etc.

50 Puli
thast a little scary. i dont think i thought of what my apartment says about my when decorating it. i just did things i thought would look nice to me, and would be comfy.
____________________________________________________________________________

Just make sure you don't have 1) a motorcycle or 2) a bowling-ball bag/carrier in your living room!
;-)

re: kissing books, it's simply an external manifestation of an internal thought/feeling (respect for knowledge). I grew up with touching the book to my head if dropped, but now, sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't. Ultimately, what matters is the internal, not the external - which can be feigned. But, it's pretty harmless and not being forced on someone. It's about as irrational as people standing up and clapping at the end of a Dawkins lecture. Different strokes for different folks.

Just make sure you don't have 1) a motorcycle or 2) a bowling-ball bag/carrier in your living room! ;-)

i have a display shelf with a bunch of souveniers form travel. i have a samurai sword, and some art statues from various countries. brown leather sofas. glass tables. tan oriental rug, and whatever dorky book i happen to be reading at the time.

i have a display shelf with a bunch of souveniers form travel. i have a samurai sword, and some art statues from various countries. brown leather sofas

Why does every brown boy have one of these? :)

Why does every brown boy have one of these? :)

going to japan and not buying a samurai sword would just not do....that along with the japaneese doll are the 2 coolest souveniers from that place.

Puli,
According to Fussell (*I* don't really know, that's why I'm using him), a "display of collectibles" in living room is a big no-no.
So, those souvenirs have to go!
Art statues--yes! good!

Umm, I got an 11/12. Not sure how - I had to guess on all the questions involving numbers.

Take it again in a few hours after a few beers, and if you still get 11/12 hats off to you!

What I want to know is how KXB did. He's posted almost all stories on the newstab that had links into the Economist website, like he reads it all day or something. :)

So, those souvenirs have to go!

nah..i like my souveniers...had a lot of fun colllecting them. i also strech the definition of souveniers. not what most people would call souveniers.

ah, yes. and a piano. the only problem with that is that little kids like hitting things that make noises when you hit them.

do they have (very good looking) dress shoes for men that arent animal made? most of the ones i see are lame.

Really? Write to Payless to complain? I don't know...I too cringed a little when I first saw it, but it was mostly an automatic reaction (fear of getting struck down by lightening perhaps? ;-)), but then I relaxed and realized it's an American commercial where shoes aren't seen to be an offending item.

10/12 (I missed the # of Brits in India in 1901 and stupid Rahul Gandhi's politically incestuous family tree). What now ABDs! w00t!

Whats wrong with stepping on books? I am surprised that anybody would have a problem with that in 2007 but then hundreds of millions of people face in one direction to pray everyday so what do I know.

I've been to many Punjabi households in Delhi, and Kol, where people do not remove thier shoes. Maybe it's an abberation.

Japanese houses have a similar custom of taking off shoes at the entrance, right? Got a 9/12. Stumped by Gandhi-railways (I thought wristwatch), the soldier number during mutiny and Kashmir question.

I might add that I used to find the feet-touching-books prohibition a bit silly and excessive. However, my attitude has changed now that my own thesis is bound and sitting on several people's shelves. Granted, it's thick enough to give one a good bit of lift -- but if I catch anyone actually using it as a stepstool, I will personally strangle him/her! :-)

Did someone mention Sarika - that woman looks gorgeous even now and at her age (last seen in Parzania I think). And so does Dimple who looks more beautiful with each passing year. The same was true at one point with Shabana and Sharmila, and of course Hema Malini looks better than her daughter even now.

Granted, it's thick enough to give one a good bit of lift -- but if I catch anyone actually using it as a stepstool, I will personally strangle him/her! :-)

Camille@68.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree it's gross and unhygenic, esp. in S. Asia, carpets or no.

May I come to your house? :-)

Touching books with our feet, asolute no-no. How does this group react to reading books in the loo?

Camille@68.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree it's gross and unhygenic, esp. in S. Asia, carpets or no.

May I come to your house? :-)

How does this group react to reading books in the loo?

Simple practical issue as far as my experience goes - I found myself spending more time in the loo than I cared or needed to thanks to the interesting book in hand and thus decided it's not worth it.

Simple practical issue as far as my experience goes - I found myself spending more time in the loo than I cared or needed to thanks to the interesting book in hand and thus decided it's not worth it.

I need to do this. I am late to work more often than I want :-(.

Perhaps magazines and newspapers in the loo to cater to shorter attention spans.

How does this group react to reading books in the loo?

I was all, "OMG, Tamasha is teh gay!!1!" ;)

I am also not very religious but just cant think of stepping on books deliberately and feel guilty when I do so by mistake . I remember my gf laughing when after stepping on her US weekly by mistake, I did the usual "touch feet" gesture to it. I think it amused her more since I hate that publication and always give her a hard time when she reads it.

Oh ..and also seems like I am not missing my tryst with destiny. 8 :)

How does this group react to reading books in the loo?

35 · A N N A on August 16, 2007 01:56 PM · Direct link

is it just me, or does this entire quiz reek of india/hindu bashing/an intended cold shower to deflate the celebratory hoopla... ?

Whoa, how so?

..I dunno, I kind of felt reading the answers that they were talking about millions of emasculated sycophantic traiterous sepoys led by a sanctimonius luddite killed by an hindu ingrate, India a backbroken country of pagan religions with people capable of no originality of thought or mind, and oh yes, end the illegal occupation of $mir...

This is a great topic!

In high school we had those desks where you could put your books on the shelves underneath it- I swear something used to hurt me internally when I saw people resting their keds on the books of the person in front of them.

For me, books, pencils, ghungroos, musical instruments should all not come in contact with the feet. Basic respect. I study kathak dance, and it is even rude to show the bottoms of your feet to your elders or even peers. The idea is that anything that provides you with wisdom and knowledge should never be desecrated by what lies beneath (our feet!!).

What I want to know is how KXB did. He's posted almost all stories on the newstab that had links into the Economist website, like he reads it all day or something. :)

I DO have a job, you know ;)

I got a seven. I think that's fine for an American-born kid.

I've also heard of the "Do not step on books" rule. Of all the pecularities of growing up in a Hindu household, this was not that big a deal.

musical instruments should all not come in contact with the feet.

bass drums, distortion pedals on guitars. sustain and sustinudo pedals on pianos, etc, etc, etc....

Having grown up here, I knew that we were not supposed to step on books. However, I had no clue about never putting books on the floor until my husband, who grew up in India, came home one day to find all his books neatly lined up on our closet floor. Ohhhh boooyyyy.

ahh...a bookshelf to go with that shoerack anyone?

Puliogre in da USA:

Those technical aspects aside, it more so means you should not put your foot say, on TOP of the piano, or on top of the drum part of the drum set. Are you getting me? ;)

holy godly scandinavian furniture.

Basic respect.

The concept of respect when it comes to inanimate objects is very person specific (respect between two people will obviously depend on both of them). Thus while to you putting your feet on something is a sign of basic disrescept, to another probably because he/she considers feet holy might be a sign of respect. The idea of respect is very much ingrained in our own mind and colored by our perceptions, what we think is right or wrong and thus what we consider as showing respect.

Those technical aspects aside, it more so means you should not put your foot say, on TOP of the piano, or on top of the drum part of the drum set. Are you getting me? ;)

do you mind the "blue man group" piano smasher?

" i have a display shelf with a bunch of souveniers form travel. i have a samurai sword, and some art statues from various countries. brown leather sofas "

"Why does every brown boy have one of these? :)"

KILL BILL.. MAYBE ??

Since we are talking footwear, does anybody else instinctively right a shoe/flip-flop if you see it lying upside down?

KILL BILL.. MAYBE ??

naw. i got mine in the pre-kill bill era

Well said Meenakshi

bass drums, distortion pedals on guitars. sustain and sustinudo pedals on pianos, etc, etc, etc....

Since we are talking footwear, does anybody else instinctively right a shoe/flip-flop if you see it lying upside down?

Ooo, the worst offense (in mis-shoe-stacking) is when someone will put one shoe on top of the other (sole to top of shoe). People do this all the time in the gurdwara -- it drives me NUTS.

Ooo, the worst offense (in mis-shoe-stacking) is when someone will put one shoe on top of the other (sole to top of shoe). People do this all the time in the gurdwara -- it drives me NUTS.

if someone put some shoes on top of an expensive pair of my shoes i would be reaslly annoyed.

Puli, this feels better when done barefoot, anyway (in my opinion).

funny. whenerv i play concerts, i walk on wearing shoes. sit behind my instrument. take my shoes off discreetly. play. put shoes back on. stand up. this is because i wasnt allwoed to wear shoes in the house growing up, and as a consequence always practiced bearfoot.

naw. i got mine in the pre-kill bill era

Did you get one of these too !!

I got a seven. I think that's fine for an American-born kid.

Or even a DBD!

I always appreciate the links you put up on the news tab, KXB. Thanks much!

Talking of literary pursuits while perched, remember in India there is no throne.
Acrobatic enough for y'all?

I was all, "OMG, Tamasha is teh gay!!1!" ;)

so was i! and i was too scared to say since i have only just 'met' tamasha - didn't want to get more personal than necessary. but then i was very confused by her recent blog posts. i had a long moment of surrogate sexual orientation crisis. and then i saw rushdie's name...

Also, Camille, please note that I beat you.

I bet there are websites that feature "naughty indian girls" stepping on books.

If there isnt then there is a segment of a billion person popultion that is waiting for it.

No one beat's India, when it come's to way's that you can offend them.

Also, Camille, please note that I beat you.

Puli,
It's gross even with inexpensive shoes; I hate having little bits of dirt in my shoe because someone put their shoes on top of mine. It kind of ruins the top of the shoe, also, and in bad weather it gets the tops muddy! Do you play drums/piano? (I'm trying to think of instruments that require sitting). I would probably walk onto a stage with shoes, too, especially depending on the venue. I love carpets for this reason, though (for laying over the stage) I think, when you practice barefoot, there is some greater level of connection/control than what you get when you're shoeless. I also like feeling the vibrations of instruments, though, which I think is easier to do barefoot :)

you know, my pet peeve in college was the way they would line the walkways with paper ads for upcoming events -- games, plays, etc. on particularly narrow paths, i would be hopping back and forth, trying to avoid all the damn paper on the ground. drove me crazy! there are a lot of superstitions/rituals i have shirked, but this one is just so deeply ingrained in me.

I never grew up religious, even as a kid. While I was aware of this taboo among Hindus, it was not an issue with me. i had papers and books all over my floor. And plenty of times, I would step on them. When i was lil kid, I would create steps with books, and walk up and then jump down.

Do you play drums/piano? (I'm trying to think of instruments that require sitting). I would probably walk onto a stage with shoes, too, especially depending on the venue. I love carpets for this reason, though (for laying over the stage) I think, when you practice barefoot, there is some greater level of connection/control than what you get when you're shoeless.

drums, piano, guitar, and opera. i agree with the vibrations bit. feel like you are more more connected to the instrument. maybe play better. i never really had much controll over the stage. somehow.

It's gross even with inexpensive shoes;

Sorry, I miswrote, I meant barefoot == better connected to the instrument than shoe-clad. :) You sing opera and own $400 loafers?

You sing opera and own $400 loafers?

well...yes. i sing opera.

the loafers. thats a long story. my boss looked at my ragidy @ss shoes, and said "youd better get new ones". so, hence..i own overpriced shoes, suits etc.... (depite my non flashy personality)

the loafers. thats a long story. my boss looked at my ragidy @ss shoes, and said "youd better get new ones". so, hence..i own overpriced shoes, suits etc.... (depite my non flashy personality)

i do what work requires of me...

Sorry, I miswrote, I meant barefoot == better connected to the instrument than shoe-clad.

yup...i guessed that, cause i feel the same way.

Whoa! Watching her step on the books hurts. Literally! I can still hear my mom's voice ringing in my ears about treating books with respect. I think that is one of the things about our culture that I really appreciate. An inherent respect for all things, and especially books and learning and knowledge.

In other news, who puts WHITE carpet in a "college" apartment (this was when I lived in Davis, on the "G" line, for those of you who know of such things)?

Ah the "G" line, college apartments - what great memories. A N N A, all my Davis apartments had carpet the color of turds, so I don't know what is worse...

GO AGGIES!

It's interesting how feet and shoes are such a big part of our culture. You never touch your feet to books or paper. You never wear shoes inside. You always perform music or dance barefoot.
I have to think some of the reasons this has developed is very practical. It's damn dirty on the streets of India, you don't want to be tracking that in your house. It's easier to dance barefoot. It's really hot, so you would rather not wear shoes.

My dad "jokes" around that Hindus are vegetarian as function of the weather in India. It's so hot that there was no way to preserve meat and it was to prevent people from getting food poisoning!

5/12 :(

i thought assembly lines were evil. why couldn't nehru be a warrior tsk tsk. and here i thought he'd use the khadi to towel slap the british ass. overestimated the british population and underestimated the indians. and i never was good with figuring out relatives in an indian family.

all the same, i am deeply ashamed. i need some chaya to take the edge off. but i won't even be served chaya by any self respecting indian. and jst after independence day too.

That said, I think we should be semi-blog lovers, now that you're "the gay" and all.

BIG, also, wearing tight shoes for majority of our waking hours does a number on the feet. It's nice to let them be free and breathe for some time. :)

It's nice to let them be free and breathe for some time. :)

AGREED! I am not allowed to wear open toe shoes at work, and so wish I could on hot days! There is a reason feet get stinky and sweaty when wearing shoes, they aren't meant to be constricted like that.

M F Hussain. Walks bare feet everywhere. Was even thrown out of a brown sahib club in Mumbai.

Why does every brown boy have one of these? :)

I do not. Real nihongo steel is too expensive, mostly it's tourists who pick up cheap fakes as mementos. Actually a lot of them are family heirlooms, passed on generation to generation in many ways similiar to kimonos or in desi culture a mother's gold bangles.

going to japan and not buying a samurai sword would just not do....that along with the japaneese doll are the 2 coolest souveniers from that place.

Try buying some japanese incenses, many are still made in traditional temples around the country and adhere to strong standards. They smell quite wonderful. Also, higher quality hand made japanese fans or wooden combs are good too. Women with long hair love them as gifts. :)

I bet there are websites that feature "naughty indian girls" stepping on books. If there isnt then there is a segment of a billion person popultion that is waiting for it. No one beat's India, when it come's to way's that you can offend them.

This would do it for me. 'Naughty India girls with glasses stepping on books who wear gray tweed skirts in a library'!!!!

However it kinds of reminds me of Ignatius J. Reilly's, the main character from A Confederacy of Dunces, love of a certain photograph.

Recently I came across some type of promotion where they were stepping on notebooks and I immediately shot off a note to the guy. It was extremely uncomfortable to see people stamping on the notebook to show how hardy it is!!

Talking of notebooks, did any of you DBDs stand at the college bus stop and twirl your notebook on your index fingers? kya timepass.

It's all good in the 'hood, mutineers, I touched a book and then touched each eyelid, so the BOGO girl is excused by proxy.

I cringe when my husband puts his beshoed feet on the coffee table (those things have been all over New Orleans, please keep them off my furniture) or his bare feet on paper, etc. And he doesn't quite get my exasperation (one of those moments that make you wonder how the hell you're going to raise those hypothetical bi-racial kids)> This is why I make it a point not to put papers or books anywhere his feet can reach them. Life's just easier for me that way.

11/12

Missed the Gandhi quote...

I still refrain from stepping on books. When I was dating my wife, it used to bother me when she put her foot up the dashboard. We both take off our shoes before going into the house although we aren't adamant about it, especially with guests. When my wife and I went backpacking around India, she said she totally understood why desis like washing their feet and don't wear shoes inside the house, because, as someone said earlier, there's dirt everywhere! I think a lot of these "superstitions" have practical roots.

I'm beginning to think the same about two other things:

1. Never eating off someone else's plate (in Tamil, called "yea-che"), even close relatives and friends. Much more sanitary.
2. Never cutting nails after dark. My guess is someone long time ago cut off a digit while cutting their nails at night and since then it's a frowned upon practice.

On another note, it seems like the quiz has some problems. It miscounted the correct answers and also selected choice which I know I didn't select.

Now this guy really disrespects books.

American Ads should not be subject to non-American traditions.

If Indians or Hindus do not step on books that is their symbol of respect.

Symbols only have meaning if we give them meaning.

Not all cultures give meaning to the same symbols.

Juanita, thank you for implying that the cultural norms of American-born people of South Asian descent are somehow less American, less acceptable, or less appropriate for inclusion in the multicultural fabric of the U.S. I hope that if someone is inadvertently disrespectful to a symbol that you value, that you will exercise the same open-minded tolerance of the "emptiness of symbols."

The thrust of this post was not an indictment of the Payless ad, but rather a reflection on the growth that we all experience from engaging in conversation on this blog. In effect, it was a celebration of e-community, not an attempt to judge or demean Payless's ad campaign.

Sorry, I realized my tone might seem harsh. All that said, welcome to the Mutiny, and please consider sticking around :)

American Ads should not be subject to non-American traditions.

Define American.

I'm American. So are the other 100 people on here. It's our tradition, and that means it's American, too.

Beyond that, no one called for a boycott of Payless. I'm allowed to make observations which are relevant to my community, in the space I helped create for exactly such musings. I knew other desis would relate to my reaction and that was my point. Non-desis who come here with an open mind are welcome to observe and understand us better because of it; they are not welcome to lecture us with clue-free, isolationist pronouncements.

Sorry, I realized my tone might seem harsh.

Not at all, since this person is a potential troll. Besides, you were way nicer than I was, Quick-draw Camille. :)

Folks, how many Americans, have a taboo with stepping on books? A majority? Minority? Something in between? It's not a significant symbol here. Sure, some American Hindus have that tradition, and that's fine. But to expect Payless commercials to conform to that, be sensitive about it, or even know about is un-realistic. But of course at the same time to those whom it is an important symbol or tradition they have every right to observe it.

Aw shucks, I was just in the right place at the right time. You can call me Annie Oakley, though, if you like. (I am so kidding, even if I do think she is the bomb dot com).

I guess the apology is because with all the recent trolls it's hard to maintain a personal philosophy of assuming good-intent, which is how I generally try to be in life. I wouldn't want to drive away a potential commenter who is thoughtful and engaged, but these days it's really hard to tell the difference between a troll and someone just testing the waters. =/

But to expect Payless commercials to conform to that, be sensitive about it, or even know about is un-realistic.

Where in my post did I suggest any of that?

I saw a commercial.
I had a reaction to it.
I realized it was a very South Asian reaction.
This amused me.
I thought it might amuse other brown people.
It did.

That's all.

I didn't single you out exclusively, but some of the commenters? I mean, not buying Payless over a commercial that shows shoes on books? Seems a bit much.

Al_Chutiya_for_debauchery,

"Whats wrong with stepping on books?" - Most people handle books with their hands, and considering the hours potentially spent with a book, their hands would wonder and scratch their face, et cetera. People generally like to have such intimate contact only with clean apparatuses. After all, you wouldn't like having me walk on your pillow cover on which you rest your cheek with my soiled shoes on.

P.S. the BBC quiz was too easy, anyone scoring less than 9/12 needs serious help.

I didn't single you out exclusively, but some of the commenters? I mean, not buying Payless over a commercial that shows shoes on books? Seems a bit much.

It's a free market, Lou Dobbs used to believe in it before the dumbass got burnt on Space.com. People are free to give their business to whomever they please

s/BBC/Economist/

P.S. the BBC quiz was too easy, anyone scoring less than 9/12 needs serious help.

Did I miss the BBC quiz? The one that Anna mentioned is at The Economist.

never mind re: #139 :)

I think people in India are starting to discriminate between the sacred and the mundane when it comes to the printed word. In the not so distant past if you had a book it was either a religious text or an academic text book. Stepping on some filmi digest doesn't seem to provoke much anger but is still considered rude

P.S. the BBC quiz was too easy, anyone scoring less than 9/12 needs serious help.

That was charming, and by charming I mean obnoxious. Lurkers are intimidated enough, sentiments like that don't help them feel comfortable.

They don't even teach us American history here, setting some random bar for how much we should know about India is so 90s, so ABCD vs. FOB.

Juanita Jameson,

"I didn't single you out exclusively, but some of the commenters? I mean, not buying Payless over a commercial that shows shoes on books? Seems a bit much."

I agree; moreover, Payless was probably only loosely involved in the making of that advertisement. Seeing that paper airplane being thrown inside a public library, however, that makes me thank the stars for letting me live in an era where computers and the internet allow me to never, ever, set foot in those unruly hellholes called public libraries. If they wanted it to be more like a real public library, however, they need to have some of those kids spit out gum into their hands and jab that mess against the underside of their desk. Oh, yes, and some half-blind geriatric librarian needs to be squinting at the pages of some trashy romance novel under the flickering illumination of tubelights that had never been replaced since the building's construction. That said, even in such a dysfunctional library, I would find it hard to believe that the on duty librarian would ever let a kid stack books on the floor and climb up it, with shoes which likely stepped on some of that ubiquitous chewing gum no less.

but some of the commenters? I mean, not buying Payless over a commercial that shows shoes on books? Seems a bit much.

If something offends you, you can vote with your dollars. Louiecypher is right; people have the right to take their business wherever they choose. But that wasn't the point of this post. My point is now lost in this useless discussion over what is American or whether it's reasonable to dislike Payless. All this was intended to be was a cute conversation where people could chime in and say "I totally relate to that taboo" or "I got an 8 on the quiz".

Dude, when did this become a hyper critique of Payless? How many people here seriously proposed a boycott? Oh, that's right, NO ONE. No one even criticized the ad, but rather said that it made them cringe given their own upbringing around how books are to be treated. Instead this turned into whether or not South Asian Americans should have a right to ask for cultural competency in advertising (something, at this point in this topic specifically, none of us even asked for).

But regardless, that wasn't the point of this post. Jeez people, way to take a feel good post and turn it all sour. In the spirit of tone-resurrection and shoes...

I have a very serious footwear question. I have never in my life had to invest in "winter boots" -- can someone east coasterly explain what this is, really, and whether I should actually look for "special boots"?

I have a very serious footwear question. I have never in my life had to invest in "winter boots" -- can someone east coasterly explain what this is, really, and whether I should actually look for "special boots"?

Eskimo boots worn over denim.

Blech.

oh camille - is this going to be your first winter on the east coast? it's not so bad with the right gear, depending on where you are. as for boots, you need one for the everyday, and one for the night-time (when i moved to boston, it was the first i actually needed nice boots), and preferably both should be waterproof. lots of people still wears uggs - super-warm, but not sure how great they are in terms of water repelling. i'm not really into brands, but i think banana republic has a good selection of practical and fancy boots - i bought these for the snow and these for the rain. also, make sure to wear warm and long socks inside - makes a huge difference, esp. wool ones (i was surprised but cashmere and cashmere blends are actually the warmest). in terms of special boots, it might be worth it, actually, to spend a little more if it has everything you want - warm, tall, waterproof, and aesthetic appeal. the winters and the slush can be really miserable - dry and warm vs wet and cold makes a huge difference in how well you get on in the winter.

also, puffy jackets are usually much warmer than wool ones.

Eskimo boots worn over denim.

What can I do as a male to put an end to this abominable snowperson look? Uggs look like a baby polar bear is gnawing at your feet.

that is so 2006. 2007 is all about the uggs with miniskirts!

who decides this $hit?

A letter in today's The Telegraph (UK):

Tibetans place a high value on books

Sir - In contrast to Harry Mount (Comment, August 14), who questions reverence for books, Tibetans revere books almost more than anything. When handed a book, a Tibetan often lays it on his head, murmuring a prayer that he may gain from its wisdom.

Tibetans are morbid about books touching shoes. Marco Pallis relates in his book Peaks and Lamas that one day in 1936 at P'hiyang Monastery, Ladakh, while sitting talking to Lama Gyaltsen, his colleague Dr Roaf put his feet on Professor Boyd's Textbook of Pathology, to which he had just referred.

The lama stopped in mid-discourse and, in shocked tones, said: "Excuse me, but you are treading on a book." Roaf at once apologised, picked up the precious volume and laid it in a safe place.

Pallis thought its learned author would have been surprised at such respect, an honour it probably never received from his students in his laboratory at home.

Roger Croston, Chester

Yeah, I don't think I can do the eskimo boots over denim, just because I don't think I could wear white boots, particularly not ugly white boots. uggs + miniskirts is soooo 2003 from a Californian perspective ;)

ak, thanks -- it IS my first full-on east coast winter (at least since I was 6). I don't think it'll get as cold as Boston here (knock on wood, with global warming who knows?), and I don't mind investing in a good pair -- I did this with my rainboots and it was well worth it. Ideally I'd like to find something where I can tuck my jeans in or wear them over my boots, something waterproof, definitely something warm, and something not inordinately hideous. I was seriously considering Uggs just because they a) fit, b) people are used to their ugliness, and c) I could take them back to CA eventually. Thank you for the BR link, though -- I never really look at their boots/shoes, but I'll give them a second look. :)

its tougher to dress as a girl. i mean, if miniskirts are in, that should give people fits. its tough to pull one of those off...

who decides this $hit?

camille - np. so glad to be out of the boston weather, though after 4 years (and a few weekends in vermont), anything above 25 degrees is actually warm to me. also check out nordstrom - they have some cool styles, and the junior section is good for some really stylish stuff.

puli, thanks for the style acknowledgement - even though i love clothes, they can be a pain sometimes, and being a guy definitely has fewer constrictions in that area...

Camille, check out the footwear section here. I've bought plenty of stuff from them and have never been disappointed.

uggs + miniskirts is soooo 2003 from a Californian perspective ;)

OMG Camille! That's exactly what I was thinking.

Camille:

Please do not wear Uggs in NYC. It's my personal mission to remove them from the world, but I'm starting small. It's not that I have a problem with the type of boot, but rather the complete lack of design. There are many, many brands that function the same way as Uggs, but guess what? They actually look decent!

Actually, though, the problem in NYC is the nasty black slush, and enormous (like, five feet wide!) puddles that form on the street corners. So Uggs are useless. Wearing heavy duty (not the kind that are half tweed - what's the point? other than they're cute) rubber boots is so liberating. Once it drops below 65 degrees you'll see them in the window of EVERY store. While other people have to walk halfway down the block to cross the street, I can plop my feet down into the puddles. It's actually kind of fun.

Over and out.

One word: Wellies.

or, what Tamasha said. ;)

But I still loooove my mukluks.

Thank you, shoe friends :) I will take your recommendations and links to heart! (or to my wallet)

Haha, BIG, it's true, uggs + miniskirts are old hat from a west coast perspective! [to my credit I have never worn Uggs, nor miniskirts, nor any combination thereof. Also, there are 1-2 ugg designs that, on occasion, I have thought were not as hideous as the "standard ugg." Unfortunately, they don't make any of those non-ugly designs anymore]

Aren't rubber boots kind of uncomfy? I only ask because I have rubber rainboats, and, while I love them, I don't think they breathe very well, nor are they as "free moving" as I would like. Perhaps I protest too much. I think we'll get a lot of snow -- not as much sludge, per se, but definitely sludge-like snow. Waterproof is best :)

ANNA,

"That was charming, and by charming I mean obnoxious. Lurkers are intimidated enough, sentiments like that don't help them feel comfortable."

Did you change your post's text? I distinctly recall it being something along the lines of "Gee thanks, that makes me feel a LOT better."

Mods have editing powers. ;)

Did you change your post's text? I distinctly recall it being something along the lines of "Gee thanks, that makes me feel a LOT better."

I know this will disappoint you, since the totality of your comments indicate that you dislike me, but no, that's not what I wrote. Your distinct recall is flawed, but then, so is your tactless way of expressing how anyone who scored less than you needs help. Rude much? And this isn't about my score...I don't give a shit that you got a few more questions right. Have a cookie, if that's so important to you.

This is what is important to me: I've met so many people who lurk on this site, especially after the marrow drives and out of curiosity (and later concern) I have asked nearly all of them about their reluctance to comment. Some say that they don't feel it's their place or that they don't have anything to add to the discussion. An even greater number blush and express how "it's intimidating". This is something I'm becoming consumed with, especially since a majority of the people who are intimidated in to silence are women.

I thought your comment was rude and yes, obnoxious. My original retort was a sarcastic, "That's nice. Really nice.", but I thought I'd be a bit more articulate in the vain hope that you would see past your negativity towards me and understand that I was concerned about others, whom you couldn't possibly have beef with...but I see how effective that was.

You can call me Annie Oakley, though, if you like. (I am so kidding, even if I do think she is the bomb dot com)

Camille, your NorCal lingo is sicker than cancer patients. Yadidimean?

OK losers, I just scored 13/12; the Economist's editor has sent me a congratulatory mail asking me to pat myself on the back and take yesterday off; this is like, so cool.

I'm laughing so hard right now because I was thinking the exact same thing when I first saw the commercial. I was, naturally, very offended by the that part of the commercial. I stepped on a book once when I was little and my mother gave me the most severe reproach ever - I never did it again. Even now, it's such a reflex to do a quick namaskar to said book before going on with whatever I was doing.

This is not just a 'hindu' thing as #132 suggest. It is for anyone of any religion/ race that respects the idea that books = knowlegde and this is something to be respectful towards.

The removing shoes idea when entering a house, again as someone says spans many cultures and people and sometimes it's actually ok with me. There's even a vegetarian Korean restuarant in NYC where are asked to take your shoes off and given slippers before being taken to your table (Hungawi).

I'm sure if anyone wrote to Payless to inform them this act is sensitive in many cultures it will be well received. In our company which is wholly American, we have diversity training and all these nuances seen in other cultures is embraced and any new information is well received and appreciated.

I'm sure if anyone wrote to Payless to inform them this act is sensitive in many cultures it will be well received.

Thank you for contacting Payless ShoeSource.We appreciate feedback whether it's about our shoes, the programs on which we advertise, or about our advertising in general. Your opinion is important to us. You are a valued customer and we hope you will continue to allow us to serve your footwear needs.
Laura
Payless ShoeSource Customer Support Center

received the following 'non-response' after a couple of days

Areem,
Don't know if you have read "Catch-22" but the response you received reminds me of the Colonel's idea of sending out form letters to the families of the deceased as in "Dear mr./Mrs/Miss/Dr. X, We are sorry that your son/brother/nephew was killed/died/wounded/missing in action....." :-)

Sorry for the off topic rant but if anyone hasn't read the book read it now.Its anti-war brilliance is even more relevant in these times, given what;s happening overseas ....