I think I've reached a milestone. Up until this point I used to feel embarassed when a desi of no relation to me did something cringeworthy. Strangely I feel nothing, I am free...

well, as i'm assuming most of her desi in-group members will see through the half-hearted brownface and irritating accent, we need only be worried by those viewers who don't belong to this group or are not familiar with the panoply of english accents found in s. asia.

It seems as if she was attempting a PakAttack presentation but somehow lost her motivation before filming began, and wandered perilously close to a long and winding road to nowhere, I like to call, "malodorous crap you should have killed while in gestation."

Some browns do brownface, while completely aware of how inaccurate and offensive it may be, in a forum where the audience may be completely unaware of this fact--an act usually resulting from frustration at consistently failing to be recognized as a human being/actor/dancer in their own right.

that being said, i don't think this one was one of those 'crying out' moments. She was trying to have a bit of a lark and failed miserably. I think i'll have to fall back on, "context matters."

She was trying to have a bit of a lark and failed miserably. I think i'll have to fall back on, "context matters."

What if she gets on the show and keeps up the act?

I just threw up in my mouth. I hope she never makes it.

What if she gets on the show and keeps up the act?

i would be inclined to use my blogging voice (puny and lacking-in-traffic as it is) to start a show-by-show critique of this brown-face travesty. We don't need Apu II (although this would have nowhere near the reach of the Simpsons cartoon).

indeed, if she manages to get on the show, I'm not confident that the show's producers will see through the act and engineer a way to kick her off.

I think i'm the ONLY brown person I know who refused to watch the Simpson's movie on the grounds that the producers were likely smart and well-read enough to know just how powerful and damaging the character of Apu was to the desi community.

Ironically, this brings a certain Public Enemy song to mind...

Muralimannered--what damage did the Apu character do to the desi community?

Looks more like someone decided to add a little crack to their morning protein shake.

Muralimannered--what damage did the Apu character do to the desi community?

what single mainstream media-supplied image, do you think, has had the greatest impact on how America sees desis? Is it Ben Kingsley in Ghandi? Nope. Is it a recurring character on one of the most popular cartoons in American TV history? Yes.

"Thank you, come again!" was not an insult before Apu. Desi names were not automatically considered unworthy of an attempt to correctly pronounce, before Apu. Desis were not pigenholed as cheap-wad, greasy, unhip furriners before Apu.

The simpsons created a new Desi sterotype--not naked fakirs or bearded mystics, but the 'guy' you think you're going to see, everytime you fill up your gas tank or need a Slurpee.

A friend forwarded this clip to me. I felt like Ennis - I laughed, then frowned. At least Pak Attack made me laugh out loud. This girl is trying to be funny, but it really just doesn't work. The whole spicy/oriental/exotic/mango/curry/Indian princess thing is so overdone. Her video doesn't promote anything useful or intelligent. I include making me laugh as being useful.

If she got on the show, and kept up the act, I don't think she could keep it up for very long - especially since she's having trouble committing to the "character" in her video before she's even gotten on the show. I'd have to snort milk out of my nose though if she joined the others in the "I'm real" and "I'm here for Flav" dialogues that FoL girls are known for. That would be worth watching.

"Thank you, come again!" was not an insult before Apu.

True

Desi names were not automatically considered unworthy of an attempt to correctly pronounce, before Apu.

I had 15 years of people not caring to pronounce my name before Simpsons even left the Tracy Ullman show

Desis were not pigenholed as cheap-wad, greasy, unhip furriners before Apu.

My observation as an ABD in my 30s

She didn't even think of some BW music playing in the background when doing her moves. Sheesh.

I wonder how this video will affect her marriage prospects.... *gasp*

Ew. That dancing to total silence bit was awkward! As if the fact that this was all done for 'Flavor of Love' isn't cringe-worthy in itself.

Who ever owns the wedding gear (ie her mom) must be real proud.

what single mainstream media-supplied image, do you think, has had the greatest impact on how America sees desis? Is it Ben Kingsley in Ghandi? Nope. Is it a recurring character on one of the most popular cartoons in American TV history? Yes.

"Thank you, come again!" was not an insult before Apu. Desi names were not automatically considered unworthy of an attempt to correctly pronounce, before Apu. Desis were not pigenholed as cheap-wad, greasy, unhip furriners before Apu.

The simpsons created a new Desi sterotype--not naked fakirs or bearded mystics, but the 'guy' you think you're going to see, everytime you fill up your gas tank or need a Slurpee.

Apu is funny and his character isn't an insult. The Simpsons is a show that makes fun of stereotypes. And the fact that desis can have a character like Apu in the show, to me means,that desis are a minority that doesn't HAVE TO BE protrayed as unltrasuccessful --- we've become enough of a frabric of American society, that we can be made fun of. I find it similar to jewish people being made of --- like "coffee talk" on SNL and borat. apu doesn't define Indians b/c "the simpsons" is a cartoon, that, like borat, makes fun of the fact that stereotypes exist.

painfully creepy. also, FOL is definitely not worth this level of image-tarnishment.

Let me be the first to say

Yeah Boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Her sterotype reinforcing act didnt bother me. Her pitiful performance did.

Apu is funny and his character isn't an insult.

No.

Apu is funny and his character isn't an insult.

No.

Yes. ;)

But Manish and I have been through this before!

As for this video. The woman is a disgrace and might need to be chemically put down. Most irksome: "I come to you from New Delhi, the place of the Taj Mahal". At least get the geography right you joke. And another demonstration of the fact that if you criticise the Peter Sellers accent, it must be criticised no matter who does it.

Aw, dude, a subject that is very close to my heart.

In terms of this video, funny is relative and all, but to me - just not funny, not even in a funny ironic subversive way (like Goodness Gracious Me was, which I loved).

I know an act from home, that has toured, using desi stereotypes (and should add, if they are reading this - I love you both as big bhaiyyas ... but) and were very popular wherever they went ... I hated the show. Absolutely hated it, they mined every stereotype available to them and people were laughing at these two silly Indian blokes whose heads bobble side to side (and thus reinforcing the stereotype) rather than laughing at the genre itself. Worse still, people feel comfortable doing so because it was in the vein of (very in) anti PC comedy (there's a whole other rant right there).

Again, it's about use of stereotypes for me - Pak Attack is funny (the 7-11 joke made me fall off my chair in hysterical laughter), this really isn't. Sorry, badly articulated, but do you get what I mean?

I think I've reached a milestone. Up until this point I used to feel embarassed when a desi of no relation to me did something cringeworthy. Strangely I feel nothing, I am free...

I'm with you LouieCypher...

I'm FREE :) FREE!

And all it took was Farah the crazy orientalist to do it.

I for one and feeling the love.

She should have been part of the Comedy Central Roast.

louiecypher, you are an ABD in your 30s?

Gosh, like Puliogre says, my mental image of you is so off (no, you don't want to know further).

But knowing your demographics also explains several things that puzzled me in some of your past arguements that I had been following. Goes to show how much the 'who' matters in the 'what' of public discourses.

WHY!!!
That was so embarrassing. You know it's BAD when you feel embarrassed for the person.
If you're brown, at least get the accent right, what was that really bad Middle Eastern accent?
And not that it matters to anyone watching, but the Taj isn't even in New Delhi, wtf!?

My observation as an ABD in my 30s

i thought you were am dbd woman in her 20's. oops.

As an african american woman, I don't think it's better when a minority actor takes a stereotypical role. Even though Flavor Flav used to rap about racial oppression and social inequality with Public Enemy, his show plays up a number of the worst stereotypes about black culture. It's not surprising that other ethnicities are willing to parody themselves to be on it. This is one of the effects of the limited casting opportunities for minority actors. There is a place for an Indian woman willing to stereotype herself, but where is the role for this same woman when she wants to play someone's mother or a journalist?

Ennis has asked really great questions that are a bit beyond this woman's video (mostly because it's not very funny -- just a failed attempt at humor), so it's hard to get deep into it. Personally I think working racial stereotypes is a really fine line, and to do it and be funny is difficult. Don't they say that comedy is the most difficult/demanding acting role? It's not even playing the stereotype that is awkward to negotiate -- it's about whether or not you're effectively playing up satire. Unfortunately, it all too often fails horribly, or even worse, goes off like Stephen Colbert at the White House Press Correspondent's Dinner.

"so it's hard to get deep into it. Personally I think working racial stereotypes is a really fine line, and to do it and be funny is difficult"

You're exactly right. A clear example of this:

Chris Rock, Dave Chapelle = funny.
Andrew Dice Clay, Carlos Mencia Ned Holnitz = not funny.

Unfortunately, it all too often fails horribly, or even worse, goes off like Stephen Colbert at the White House Press Correspondent's Dinner.

I disagree here, I don't think Colbert's intent was to make people laugh who were physically at the dinner. He's much too smart to think his 'character' and act would be well received there. His intent was to speak to the rest of us, be voice for those of us outside the dinner who wanted to say all those things. It solidified both his genius and credibility as a comedian/satirist.

Don't they say that comedy is the most difficult/demanding acting role

There's an old addage in theater, "dying is easy, comedy is hard"

I think I've reached a milestone. Up until this point I used to feel embarassed when a desi of no relation to me did something cringeworthy. Strangely I feel nothing, I am free...

I think I've reached a milestone. Up until this point I used to feel embarassed when a desi of no relation to me did something cringeworthy. Strangely I feel nothing, I am free...

This is interesting actually, I remember when a friend of mine who worked in a bank, had one of her co-workers run up to her, saying, "look look, an indian guy was involved with a bank fraud case, look I've found one that did something bad..."

I wonder if that kind of nonsense happens anymore? I walked down madison ave yesterday and didn't run into anyone I knew. I felt elated.

If you want to make fun of goofy Indian things, this is the way to do it. Some genius took a cheesy Chiranjeevi imitation of Michael Jackson's Thriller video and put English subtitles in it. The catch is the subtitles have nothing to do with the translation of the lyrics, but how they could sound in English (or at least the closest approximation) to a non Telugu speaker.

This is the funniest desi clip I have ever seen on YouTube. I like the way the subtitles vary in size and frequency. example: The 22 and 55 second marks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJRNyPK-lc

HMF, I actually think Colbert was hilarious, and I don't think he meant to make people laugh at the dinner, either. However, part of the reason he was invited was b/c the president of whatever professional press organization responsible for coordinating the dinner didn't do ample research into his show to understand that he was satirizing Bill O'Reilly. (Thus an example of, in my opinion, excellent satire being completely misunderstood because human beings are relatively stupid, really).

Oh, and I love Chris Rock, but I think Carlos Mencia is generally offensive and not very funny. Just for the record :)

However, part of the reason he was invited was b/c the president of whatever professional press organization responsible for coordinating the dinner didn't do ample research into his show to understand that he was satirizing Bill O'Reilly

I've really often wondered this. Are the white house people that stupid and out of touch with reality to think Colbert's character was "true"? I dunno, it wouldn't surprise me at this point.

However, I just think they invited him to sort of "liven" things up a bit, but just assumed he'd "take it easy" on the president given the venue. They were wrong.

I find it hard to believe that many people could get fooled by Colbert. He doesnt even hide it that it is a parody. As far as Mencia, I gotta confess, I laughed at a couple of things from his first season including the Indian shopkeeper who doesnt take shit from a fat African American woman and some white skinny guy. BUt I guess he ran out of jokes to steal. This season sucks.

Personally I think working racial stereotypes is a really fine line, and to do it and be funny is difficult. Don't they say that comedy is the most difficult/demanding acting role? It's not even playing the stereotype that is awkward to negotiate -- it's about whether or not you're effectively playing up satire.

I got a comment on my blog from a woman named Lucy Dee-- she's a black female comedian who's negotiating exactly this fine line in her work. She has a blog on which she is thinking through all the implications of doing this kind of humor... it's pretty interesting.

She lost me at "I'm from New Delhi, the beautiful place of the Taj Mahal" This girl can't even get her geography straight. I'd laugh at her if I weren't dying of embarrassment. Shame Shame...

you know that that's a guy right?

you know that that's a guy right?

Going by the body language, yes.

I find it hard to believe that many people could get fooled by Colbert. He doesnt even hide it that it is a parody.

Well, he hides it pretty well. He stays in character, it's just the stuff he says is so outrageous that even the dumbest redneck out there should be able to pickup on it.

you know that that's a guy right? You mean in the video? If so, that puts a whole other spin on things...

That was pretty bad. But there's Pradeep on "The Pick-up Artist". He's a cute guy, but clueless when he's around women. So far, Desis are not faring well on VH1. But then again, who is?

but clueless when he's around women.

as is every guy. this stuff isn't innate knowledge.

I've really often wondered this. Are the white house people that stupid and out of touch with reality to think Colbert's character was "true"? I dunno, it wouldn't surprise me at this point.

lentil's 'n' rice, I think the geography blunder was intentional. Hence the attempt to stifle a giggle.

That was pretty bad. But there's Pradeep on "The Pick-up Artist". He's a cute guy, but clueless when he's around women. So far, Desis are not faring well on VH1. But then again, who is?

I think he's cute, too! So let me get this straight - desi girls are spicy, exotic, but submissive and willing to do anything to please their men (Farah telling Flav that she really knows how a man needs to be treated) and desi boys are non-sexual or have no game. I don't like either of these stereotypes. Stop emasculating our men, TV execs!!

Re: Submissiveness: I've had more than one guy IRL voice his assumption that because I'm South Asian, I must be submissive in and out of the bedroom, and then expressing his surprise when I didn't like him completely being inconsiderate of what I wanted. "What? I thought you'd like it like that... Indian girls are submissive and stuff..."

"What? I thought you'd like it like that... Indian girls are submissive and stuff..."

...and whyte guys are genocidal lunatics. whats your point? would have been a nice response.

is being slightly submissive consideredd a bad thing? is being agressive good? whats the jury verdict on this?

"...and whyte guys are genocidal lunatics. whats your point? would have been a nice response."

Why do you assume he's white?

Some people are submissive socially/sexually, some aren't - I think different things work for different people. If that's your thing, I don't think it's bad. Personally I just got annoyed because these guys assumed that because I'm brown I was some sort of devdasi.

"What? I thought you'd like it like that... Indian girls are submissive and stuff..."

Why do you assume he's white?

how about "im from new jersey....btch!"

Why do you assume he's white?

i just don't like the connotation of submissive - i.e. unequal.

i just don't like the connotation of submissive - i.e. unequal.

meh...i preffer the slightly "submissive veriety". im kind of the same way, so its a good way for both parties not to get run over at any point..

For the record - the guy who I quoted is Puerto Rican

i was wondering that. sometimes desi guys (if he was desi) have a stronger set of pre-conceived notions re desi women.

For the record - the guy who I quoted is Puerto Rican

well...thats just too easy then...

He didn't really fit any of the stereotypes, but regardless - I don't really roll like that. I think he just hadn't had much exposure to any desi girls *that way*. That's not an excuse, but he definitely has no excuse now.

meh...i preffer the slightly "submissive veriety". im kind of the same way, so its a good way for both parties not to get run over at any point..

yeah, but a desi dude in the US probably spent enough time interacting with more agressive desi grls to know the difference. although, that might not always be the case if he grew up in a bumpkin small town with 3 desis in it.

He didn't really fit any of the stereotypes

oh..thats my point. the fact that he doesnt fit into any stereotypes, and then you impose those on him would make him realze how lame it is to use stereotypes.

because i thinking compromising, cooperating is good, and does not have to be in a submissive way.

hmm...i always thought submissive kind of meant comprimising and cooperating, giving a little, etc....what does it mean to you?

I also think that submissive stereotype is part of why non-brown guys dig desi girls, when the reason cited for them digging the girl is for her "exotic-ness".

I also think that submissive stereotype is part of why non-brown guys dig desi girls, when the reason cited for them digging the girl is for her "exotic-ness".

wouldnt want to read too much into guys tastes. most guys will pretty much tag anything, and then come up with all sorts of explainations for their tastes. wouldnt put any stock in the explainations..

I wonder if giving Carlos Mencia his own TV show is a conspiracy to undermine the arguments for diversity. He is the unfunniest comedian on TV. He has also gotten away with some serious anti-Muslim shit.

When I refer to the stereotype placed on desi girls I have more of a stereotypical devdasi type girl in mind - No desire but to take care of her man, whatever he says goes, man-worship.

In everyday usage, I think being "submissive" is relative and depends on the circles you role in. Some people just prefer to not be the one leading the horizontal mambo. But if you roll with a BSMD crew, submissive will mean something very different.

In everyday usage, I think being "submissive" is relative and depends on the circles you role in. Some people just prefer to not be the one leading the horizontal mambo. But if you roll with a BSMD crew, submissive will mean something very different.

wait...i wasnt even talking about the drty stuff. i just meant in a relationship. giving a bit. being slightly less agressive, etc...

In everyday usage, I think being "submissive" is relative and depends on the circles you role in. Some people just prefer to not be the one leading the horizontal mambo. But if you roll with a BSMD crew, submissive will mean something very different.

wait...i wasnt even talking about the drty stuff.

Earlier I was referring to in and out of the bedroom - in the relationship itself, and not just sexually.

but as far as my last comment... I guess you can see where my mind is.

i just meant in a relationship. giving a bit. being slightly less agressive, etc...

Puli, I think when people say they like that Indian girls are "submissive" because of their "cultural norms" they are talking about someone who will basically be a doormat and do anything for her guy. I think that's very different from a partnership, or a relationship in which you both are willing to compromise, be chill/considerate, etc.

Also, FD, I don't think the BDSM comment was "dirty" -- you're right, "submissive" has a very explicit and very different meaning in that context :) But, by extension, that's ideally a relationship into which the sub has willingly engaged in, also, you know?

For the record - the guy who I quoted is Puerto Rican

Boriqua baby thank you.

Puli, I think when people say they like that Indian girls are "submissive" because of their "cultural norms" they are talking about someone who will basically be a doormat and do anything for her guy

Just play it safe, and assume every Indian girl is the exact opposite of what the stereotypes say.

louiecypher, you are an ABD in your 30s?

I am like this only

This is the funniest desi clip I have ever seen on YouTube. I like the way the subtitles vary in size and frequency. example: The 22 and 55 second marks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtJRNyPK-lc

Pravin, thanks for posting. This was really hilarious.

ANNA, please check out the videos by the guy who posted the above video. He has *worked* on a couple more desi videos - and the hit count and comment section by non desis is hugeeee... Worth a post on how desi songs are becoming popular on youtube?

Lord, I cannot remember the last time I laughed that much after watcthing that Chiranjeevi song. I bet most people who watch that clip and the more famous dancing midget clip have no idea the guys in those clips (Chiranjeevi and Rajnikanth) are the two biggest stars from the south.

Just play it safe, and assume every Indian girl is the exact opposite of what the stereotypes say.

as is every guy. this stuff isn't innate knowledge.

I think he's cute, too! So let me get this straight - desi girls are spicy, exotic, but submissive and willing to do anything to please their men (Farah telling Flav that she really knows how a man needs to be treated) and desi boys are non-sexual or have no game. I don't like either of these stereotypes. Stop emasculating our men, TV execs!!

There was this bitch on one of the Apprentices who certainly did not do the Indian community any favors with her drama and using her religion as an excuse not to wear a mascot getup.

The Sweet 16 brats. ughh.

One of the Brown folk on reality tv I didn't mind watching on reality tv was Aanchal on VH1 - she had her issues with her own desi-osity, but no one tried to "white her up" or fit her into a desi stereotype for the most part.

i love you for posting this.....is it missing music? ha

the other way to play it safe is not to assume anything at all :)

that's certainly a way to play it, but I wouldn't call it being safe.

HMF, how is it not safe? I think ak's advice is right on. Better to go in w/o expectations of stereotypes and you can adjust accordingly, whereas it's harder to restructure your game if you've already put your foot in your mouth.

HMF, i would also like to know how this is not safe? even assuming the complete opposite of the stereotype, as you suggested, you could end up offending somebody who fits the stereotype and/or is of a traditional/conservative type...

Better to go in w/o expectations of stereotypes and you can adjust

Yes it is better to go in w/o expectations, but it's even better to assume the opposite.

Let's take an example, let's name a stereotype that afflicts Indian women : they are quiet and submissive.

If you make no assumptions about her quietness

1. If she's quiet, then you're alright.
2. If she's a loudmouth shrew, then you might be shocked, as she 'deviates'

If you assumpe the opposite, that she's wildly outspoken about every
possible thing.

1. if she is, then, you're mentally prepared for it.
2. if she's not, then hey, it's a bonus.

It's the same reasoning as "prepare for the worst, hope for the best"

even assuming the complete opposite of the stereotype, as you suggested,

Hmm. maybe it wasn't clear, the assuming the opposite is internal, you don't walk up to her and say, so "I bet you're a loudmouth that complains about everything.."

prepare for the worst, hope for the best
HMF,

I'm confused!
Are you saying that :
The existing stereotypes about Indian women are better than the reality ?( submissive = best , assertive= worst)?

The existing stereotypes about Indian women are better than the reality ?( submissive = best , assertive= worst)?

I make no claim on the overall merits of one perceptio over the other, I'm saying, given you subscribe to a certain metric, it's best to assume the exact opposite.

no, that's not what i'm saying - even if you internally assume the opposite, what if you then make some kind of gesture, statement etc that is based on that assumption - it's plausible that she would be offended - e.g 'i'm not that kind of girl'

If you make no assumptions about her quietness

1. If she's quiet, then you're alright.
2. If she's a loudmouth shrew, then you might be shocked, as she 'deviates'

but you are going to preferences here, not assumptions. in both cases, you should be equally shocked or not shocked, irregardless of whether you like it or not. basically, the individual will inform you as to her ways and ideas and you should be prepared for anything that comes. as for you liking it, well, that's a different story.

basically, the individual will inform you as to her ways and ideas and you should be prepared for anything that comes.

I don't disagree with this, but I just go the extra step and assume it's the opposite of what the preference is. Usually when you assume the 'worst', and it's not the case, the person you assumed won't be too offended, its the inverse of that which usually offends.

ie if I assumed a girl was submissive and she wasn't - offensive
if I assumed a girl was more assertive about things, but she wasn't - doubtful she'd be too offended.

i do see your point, though you never know with people these days - even assuming aggressiveness could put you out of the running! these days, i don't assume anything, but i am completely prepared for the worst - which frightens me, because sometimes i think i'm liable to end up with any guy who is just not an ass ;) hopefully, i'll get a little more than that...

I still stand by ak. Better to have ZERO expectations (in either direction) :) I think we're all saying variations of the same thing, though.

I still stand by ak. Better to have ZERO expectations (in either direction)

Kabir and Guru Nanak managed to do that, so why can't we? ;) :p

Better to have ZERO expectations (in either direction) :) I think we're all saying variations of the same thing, though.

well, I think so too, because the "opposite expectations" aren't some kind of morbid fascination with doing harm to yourself, it's just preparing for the worst really.

Kabir and Guru Nanak managed to do that, so why can't we?

Err. didnt they also start religions ?

Err. didnt they also start religions ?

Not Kabir, AFAIK.

Flavor Flav is a modern minstrel show... I always hated him even in the early days of Public Enemy, and actually a lot of his peers hate him now too cuz of this stupid show... I just hope this desi aunt jemima doesnt make it to the show as white people and black people socialized by the institution of christianity, a biased and racist eurocentric curriculum in their schooling, and an mtv owned program for black ppl (BET) would have a field day...