August 22, 2007
Are you in an Aviyal Relationship?Musings
My baby cousin at UCLA still hasn’t forgiven me for joining Facebook. His objection is not that I’m too old for it or that I lessen its “cool factor” with my elderly presence—he just hates the program and apparently I was the last person he knew and cared about, who was not on it. That had more to do with pragmatic causes than most anything else; I was happy on Friendster and consummately preferred it to MyAss or the more “global”/Brazilian Orkut. I didn’t have time to maintain profiles on a plethora of time-sucks. And most relevant of all, I couldn’t be bothered to get an “alumni” email addy from either of the schools I managed to graduate from…and once upon a time, you needed such official stuff to participate in the Facebook-orgy.
Not anymore. And so a few of you began inviting me to join it and I pointedly ignored such requests…until one of you was Facebook-stalking a guy you thought was sooo cute.
“What’s his friendster link?”, I asked.
“He’s not ON friendster…he’s only on Facebook!”
“Well, then I can’t see him.”
“But you just HAVE to see this one picture…I have a feeling you know his friend.”
“You know how I’ve never been a bridesmaid?”
“Yeah what does that have to do with anything??”
“I’m signing up for this bullshit right now, so A) you best marry his ass and B) I best be in some sort of poufy outfit, twitching out of boredom on an altar in a year or three.”
“Omg, whatever you want, just SIGN UP”
…and so I did. But I didn’t bother uploading a pic or filling out my profile, not for a while. Then, I was asked to write something about social networking and I needed more information about FB, specifically a sense of how intuitive it was to use. I noticed, upon logging in, that I had been “poked” approximately 40 times. I also noticed that several of my far-flung friends were considerably more active and in touch on FB than they were on Fster. This puzzled me until I realized that they were destroying all of their free time defenestrating each other via “SuperPoke”, proving their music IQ via some guessing game which was far superior to the one on my iPod and playing Scrabble online via the hyper-addictive “Scrabulous”.
Well, I saw her Facebook…and now I’m a believer. I will happily eat the words which initially expressed indifference towards this program. The recent app explosion transformed FB for me, from a site to ignore to one which I am now constantly logged in to…which brings me to this post.
Now that I am spending a ton of time on there, my inner, dilettante-sociologist is hyper-stimulated. There’s so much to discover, like…
- How annoying today’s youths in high school are (incoherent and illiterate comments on group walls)
- How thousands of others also speak shitty Malayalam (via the Ende Malayalam Sucks group)
- How several of you first discovered SM! (via the SM Group, natch)
- How people are utilizing Web 2.0 to create support groups for Inter-desi relationships (!!!)
Here, read all about it. I’ll post the group’s “description” for you:
Aviyal Couples Type: Common Interest - Dating & RelationshipsDescription: This group (also a support group) is for all the desi people that are in a relationship (dating, engaged or married) where your partner is Indian but is from a different state in India or is from a different religion or caste. This type of relationship can’t be called interracial, so it can be called an ‘Aviyal Relationship’
For example: An Indian from Mumbai is in a relationship with an Indian from Bihar or an Indian from Tamil Nadu is in a relationship with an Indian from Kerala e.t.c or an Indian who is Hindu is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Christian or an Indian who is a Jain is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Brahmin e.t.c
* Aviyal - a south indian vegetable curry that has a mix of different vegetables. [Facebook]
I didn’t even realize there was a term for this situation—one I have been in for almost half of my dating life. While I tried valiantly to date Malayalee boys, “just to make it easier” on all 349 people who were potentially involved with such an alliance, I went to a college that had no Malayalee male undergrads and didn’t attend our local (read: more than 100 miles away) Syriac Orthodox church. I was far more likely to encounter Punjabi Sikh guys at U.C. Davis/Fresno/Modesto/Yuba City and predictably, that is what I often dated.
I had been making Aviyal all the way through college and I had been oblivious to it!
Whether by circumstance, i.e. being one of a handful of South Indians at a school dominated by Northies or by choice, i.e. just plain falling for someone, this is a cocktail we will see more and more of, no matter what our respective parents think of such emotional collisions. One of you, who comments regularly, is a Tamil married to a Punjabi; sometimes, the comments which inform me of this detail also contain other bits of information, which illustrate how challenging such a union is. I’m assuming both parties involved are probably Hindu, which makes things nominally easier, but when you add interreligious components to the conflict…sometimes, that is exactly what you get: conflict.
When one of the only Malayalee girls I grew up with got married about a decade ago (she was a bit older than us…because I remember that even her younger brother was two years older than me), it caused quite a stir, since she, a Namboodiri, had fallen in love with a Mallu Christian she had met at school. This was the source of much discussion and concern, as our parents pondered whether this was a harbinger of their own future disappointment.
Years later, I felt compassion for her, once I realized what the “odds” were like…it’s difficult enough finding a match who is Malayalee, finding one who is Mallu and of the same faith narrows the pool considerably—especially when you take caste or in the case of Christianity, multiple denominations in to account. It may seem counterintuitive, since Kerala’s Christians comprise a disproportionate share of Malayalee Americans, but yes, it’s hard to find a suitable boy. My father never forgave the Catholic church for what they did in the 17th century, so the thought of me marrying one was inconceivable. MarThomites were out because they were anti-feminist-Mary-haters who shamelessly chose not to revere the dead. ;)
We were fiercely Orthodox and unlike many Malayalee couples, both of my parents were Orthodox; my mother didn’t “convert” to marry him. So for me, Orthodox it would have to be.
Do you have any idea how many single Orthodox Malayalee boys there are in America, who are over the age of 32?
Approximately two.
I have a Sikh friend who is a few years older than me, who is also single, because he’s rather Orthodox himself, and most Sikh girls he encounters want someone sans beard and turban. One of you posted a NYT Vows link recently, all because the groom was Muslim and the bride was Hindu and yes, I’ll admit my non-existent eyebrows rose heavenwards upon reading it, because that’s what I’m conditioned to do. We are marinating in aviyal, whether we know it or not (pass me the drumsticks, btw…and keep the arbi to your damned self).
I’ll probably end up in an “aviyal”-marriage of my own, so I confess that I’m partially motivated to explore this aspect of growing up in the diaspora, out of self-interest. But I also remember a certain thread where it was brought up quite a few times, so I know it’s on your mind, too, along with potheads on celluloid and Shah Rukh Khan-endorsed colorism. If you have your own thoughts to add about aviyal, sambar or rasam relationships, speak.
There are many mutinies within which we can participate; the struggles associated with dating “outside” of the precise group we were born in to, perhaps more than any other uprising, often involve the most upheaval and anguish, even if one’s intended is also a shade of Sepia.
anna on August 22, 2007 03:25 PM in Identity, Musings · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
i never got the importance of marrying withing community. i hear a lot from the auntie set that im supposed to marry an iyengar. when in reality, a lot of grls from india within the same case have nothing culturally in common with me. i have more in common with an american from a different community it think. would be more normal for me to marry someone that grew in a similar setting to me. would seem like less of a "mixed avial marriage" for me to marry an american from another heritage than it would for me to marry someone that grew up half a world away in a completely different kind of country with the right last name.
Oh Anna,
Its like you wrote this post specifically for ME ! ...sniffle... Thanks!
So nice to know there are "support groups" out there :-)
Jokes aside,most of my friends and cousins in the des were also in "Aviyal" relationships so it was like an informal support group.I have to agree with you that when you add inter -religion to inter -region the complications can definitely multiply.However, like everything else in a marriage, it totally depends on the maturity and ability to compromise( ina good way) of BOTH individuals.
After dispensing that last bit of advice, I feel like the auntie I am compared to you young 'uns...
the bride is really pretty...
I'm confused. How far back does one go? My entire family has come from one city for generations, so I would say I am from that city. But, my mom's family is of a different "type" (I don't know the right words, ok?), meaning they speak a different language, eat different foods, etc. But both parents and all four grandparents grew up in one place. Was/is theirs an aviyal relationship? And more importantly, does that make me a half-breed? ;)
Puli, do you not recognize the bride? :)
::
This is the perfect time to thank mutineer Sameer Rathod, who made the effort to create and moderate an entire SM group on Facebook, after getting over his shock that there already wasn't one (so sweeet!). I wasn't as shocked at the lack of one (so cynical!). ;)
duh. yeah, now i do. i took a quick glance, saw a h*t grl, didnt think twice. (a pretty grl can do that to me).
I (gult) married a Sri Lankan. Given the proximity and similarity of culture, I guess that makes it "avial with sambol on the side". My sibling is in an "Avial" too.
Seriously, there is so much of this, there should be a term for being "in-community"...like "daal" or something more homogeneous.
Well I am guilty of "Facebook-stalking" ANNA!
Link immediately followed - check. Group joined - check.
Ditto!
Tamasha-- Lordy, I thought my family was complicated. ;)
Jeet-- you can't be guilty of being guilty when I facebook-stalked you right back...it cancels shit out...or something.
What? How come? The term for this all my teenage years was "love marriage" as opposed to an "arr***** marriage" (censored for the stability of SM web server)
I actually did not think much about this topic till a few years ago. Being a Punjabi Rajput, my family has (in addittion to the the usual "good family" requirement)the requirements of caste, religion and the region. So, having been born in India and attended school in US, therefore obviously corrupted by the Amreekan ways, my parents are alwasy on alert to make sure that my sister and I don't end up in an "Aviyal" relationship.
So when two of my cousins, both older than me, ended up in Aviyal marriages, tt was amusing to see the family's reactions. One of them is married to a Punjabi Sikh girl, while the other one married a Hindu South Indian girl. There was the initial uproar, anger. In time everybody calmed down and everything is fine. Both couples are very happy and have amazing kids. To me those two are the pioneers of the family and their "Aviyal" relationships have paved the way for the rest of us.
a related issue is the constant discussion (or fight?!) between you and your parents about having a relationship with any tint of sepia, here in your city versus getting married to the "right" shade by flying overseas.
But you can have a love marriage with someone who is the exact same caste/color/blah blah blah. So it's still not as useful a term.
tamasha - my family is like that, too. my parents aren't from the same city - but same state and same sub-caste/community. still, my mother's family's ways are totally different than my dad's. also, my mom 's side speaks bastardized telugu to the extent that my father refuses to speak in telugu with her. and i only speak to my dad's side in tamil, while i only speak to my mother's side in (terrible) telugu. though, i don't know if this would be an aviyal relationship - my mother's ways predominate so much in our household that maybe she's more the thayir than anything else :)
contemplated - but a bit scared, now :(a lot of arguements i hear for this is that the grl will be of the same "culture". but, it seems far more likely that someone has moreculturally in common with the person that grew up on the same block who has a different shade of brown than someone who grew up at the other end of the world in a village in india.
Clarification: I didn't put that link or comment up to hype membership or covertly ask you to join-- I've meant to somehow publically thank Sameer for his support and this was finally the apposite opportunity. :)
No need to join anything. ;)
It would be great if the SM Facebook group were a place for those of us who post under our real names to meet other Mutineers with real names, since Facebook is all about, well, faces and names.
im sure my mental image of most people is completely wrong. wrong gender. wrong size. wrong personality. wrong age. wrong occupation.
i don't usually like to label by these terms, especially apply these labels to myself ...
but dammit i love my mom's aviyal but i don't think my folks love my aviyal marriage as much though (Kerala/TN & Christian/Hindu) :(
Oh no! I AM joining!
My beautiful Hindu-Punjabi mom and her family moved to Canada from Africa in her teens, where she met and married my Italian father. Her family didn't disown her, but the conflict and tension that resulted has dogged our family throughout our lives. I honestly believe, having spent my life in the middle of a mixed marriage, that if it hadn't been for BOTH families and their close-mindedness, our lives growing up would have been much, much happier.
Now I've met my absolute soulmate. We're technically the same shade of brown, except that he is what is conventionally referred to as 'black'. My mom has all but disowned me. It absolutely breaks my heart every single day. Mostly because I see that the years of being shit on and abused by her family and my dad's family for her marriage (in subtle and insidious ways) is what has led her to this. I can't imagine any other reason for it. It absolutely breaks my heart that the close-mindedness that my mom tried to get away from is what she became. I do my best not to allow myself to think that my mom is ashamed of what she did, and the product of her actions - namely us. The thought is terrifying.
The sad thing is that even when you try to rise above the 'differences' and have 'human' relationships rather than ones based on caste/religion etc., there are a million people trying to drag you back into the mess. And you have to be twice as strong and twice as sure to get past that if you're in a mixed union of any kind. And even then - there are no guarantees.
Kiwi,
:(
maybe staying in community is best, even if i have less in common with the grl, if thats how it turns out. sounds painful kiwi :(
There is something to be said for passing down one's traditions(as long as it doesn't become integral part of your life). Marrying another Telugu origin girl would be preferable because even if she and I would not speak in Telugu, it makes the whole family gathering thing a lot easier. No need to act as interpreter or guide to the inlaws. (For the sake of simplicity, I am not going to bring up the complications in a meat eating non religious non-Brahmin marrying into a strict Brahmin family even if everything else they share is the same). Even though I do not speak Telugu well(I understand it well), I may end up getting any kids of mine ot learn a little bit just to pass it on just out of respect for my family origins.
I say all this, but guess what. I have never dated a Telugu origin chick. For that matter, I never went out with an Indian woman. So while I have some preferences, it doesn't really amount to anything as significant as a life changing decision.
I do find it very puzzling when some DBDs who have settled here for decades still cling on to caste feelings when it comes to who their kids marry. These morons should be thrilled if their kids can even find a girl whose family speaks the same language. FWIW, I noticed the whites who marry my cousins seem to be more at ease in family gatherings than some of the relatively aloof Indian origin kids who marry my cousins at family gatherings.
Painful, yes. Worth it? Definitely. My babies won't go through this. :)
puli, #17 totally agree! i think their argument has some merit in stuff like, well you will both speak same indian language, you will enjoy cooking/eating similar dishes...but unfortunately what they don't get is the plain fact that, i hardly care for me and my significant other speaking same "indian" language, or eating same cuisine.
they say i am not understanding how much those things would mean to me right now, but when i eventually figure it out it would be too late.ugh, talk about "deep" dialogues..scary
most of the time i speak english. and i eat a lot of italian food and japaneese food in addition to thai, north indian, south indian, mexican, chineese, etc, etc ....somehow though, the grl from india will be from the "same culture".
to top it all off, i have never heard an acceptible definition of culture.
Don't know about TANA, but HoKANA has done "Youths" programs on interracial dating, etc. That's just it-- there's so much attention paid to whether we end up with someone who isn't desi...as if a North Indian, omnivorous Muslim who married a South Indian, herbivore Hindu WOULDN'T have similarly painstaking negotiations??
::
ak- Duly noted and flattered that I inspired anyone to do anything. ;) It's addictive, right?
i think a south indian marrying a north indian is "interracial" to the community aunty set.
we like inter-racial. but not undermenschen.
mixing culture is good. but, its not good when the filthy untermenschen doesnt have a culture. i think thats what the aunty is saying. (except they dont want to sound like they belong to the aryan nation)
Vadagalai Iyengar - Palghat Iyer combo platter feels avial enough and we are shooting for a molagoottal neutrality. With all the saligramam-manasarovar lingam fighting for shelf space in a repurposed (pooja) glass showcase that was left behind by a previous thai tenant, and English-speaking hindu fundamentalist children that learn Bhagavad Gita chapter 18 with commentary, I'm sure some matronly jewish UES psychologist will have a constant revenue stream 15 years from now. Think, kids...think about the children in all such mash-ups.
must not do that. we must all marry our twin sisters and have pink flipper babies.
desis need to develop cloning, so there is NO mixing.
I am bengali married to Mallu Christian, both dbds. It's been going quite well since I think people of the both states like each other, and we both are not the temple/church going type. Also it helps that we were both pursuing phd and so parents were probably relieved to not look for a match who lives at the same place and whom I'll like. Parents (who I think are liberals to allow us to so without any protest) are very polite with each other because language barrier makes everything very polite and interestingly they keep finding good things about each other's state and emails it to us. My only worry is when I have a child (a-la arundhati) eventually. I do not want to impose any religion on any baby; they should have the goodness of both and can choose when they grow up. What I love about the aviyal marriage is that we make our own family traditions and family has not yet imposed anything (yet!) and there are many things that are common among the two states (including mindset).
Pravin of #26: I would much rather be married to married to a person I love (but who speaks some other language than mine) and with whom I can communicate really well so that our day to day lives are fantastic, rather than settle for a person who speaks the same language (but communication sucks) just to have great family get-together once in a while.
#19 - I agree with Preston -- and to reference my previous comment on the nyc meetup wrapup thread - I think Facebook could be a great step to bring a vibrate online community closer together
Not about to write a thesis on Identity and Varnas/Jaathis among contemporary Indians. Suffice it is to say that what we repudiate at the altar can come back to haunt us, especially in the form of children.
I would think the vibrating would be all you need for the closing, but hokay. ;)
it needs to be said.
mmm...... aviyal.....
Kiwi, I wish you more strength. An aunt of mine was made an outcaste by her family because she fell for a Punjabi guy. They broke up and they still don’t talk to her. Really sad, stubborn pride! They lose a sister because of it. She is with a white christen now, and she is happy, and as my bapu said the other day, she is happy, what more can you ask for.
Mixing languages is cool, my cousin married a Marathi girl, and during the wedding festivities we had a Mayfield night, songs sung in Hindi, Gujarati, Marathi, English, even some Punjabi thrown in there. Can’t go wrong with that.
DRUMSTICKS!!! :D
*vibrant ;-)
I am a Maharashtrian married to a Telugu guy (both are Brahmin, veg). My husband loves my confused cuisine BUT my mom-in-law gets problems that I don't cook pulusu the exact telugu style. Who cares? Or another recent complaint is that I don't do VaraLakshmi Vratam the telugu way that she used to do. The fact that the vratam is not performed in my family and I am doing it just to keep her happy does not qualify.
I have come to the conclusion that even if I pluck some stars and give it to my mother-in-law, she is going to complain that they are not the brightest of all. All this b'cos I am not telugu (BTW, I speak decent telugu with her too). She doesn't care that her son is very much in love with me and is very happy.
To be too technical, 'Avial' would be more than 2 veggies, sounds more like an orgy.
Is there anything like a upma-cheese grits marriage? If not, I'd like to trademark that term.
if it wasnt the telegu, it is something else. that sounds like making nakra to make nakra. i wonder if my rabid atheism would mess up my MIL's day. "Vat NO puja? VAT?"
Marriage is really between families and all...so there are more than just the two "vegetables" in the mix, ya know!
desiest response ever...
Anna and her acronyms in this post are killing me - SM, FB, Fster!! I guess I have no one but Susie Bright to blame for the "other" meanings of these acronyms. Anna, is that intentional? ;)
atheism is a nice refuge esp. when in avial situations...i'm exploring it actively. Kinda cedes the territory with some dignity intact.
I don't think the couple usually has a problem being of mixed vegetable variety. It's the smothering overbearing family that's the problem.
If I could have it my way -- the MIL would live on a separate coast (I'd be cool with her living in a different country). Mr. Bernie and I could easily go on to create our own family traditions with no MIL mumbling & grumbling.
At some stage the "families" need to butt out and realize that marriage is really between two individuals.
Not really, it would be a lot of peas and a lot of carrots.
That's really just a lazy cook!
Grandparents usually come around once the grandkids arrive on the scene.
I concur!
My parents are from the same region/state but because it was a love marriage, 40 years later, they're still outcasts as far as my relatives and the extended community are concerned.
Lazy cook indeed! Despite my love for all varieties Aviyal, sadly I've never tried to cook it. I should try it this weekend. But it'll prolly turn out to be a sacrilegious north Indian version no where close to the orgious thing.
kkk....aran? is that you?
Same here, Now I got to create the account and join the SM Group..No more excuses, I guess
What is wrong with you? We are desis. It is NEVER about the two individuals, from the engagement process on. Quit talking like a Vellamban.
Plain Vanilla marriages are not easy either. My choices were straight out of a comedy movie.
- First there was the set of parents who did not have a problem drinking with their daughter, but subsequently objected to her sitting down to eat with the men. (I had no problems with either, but was surprised by the quick change of attitude and the "let men eat first while women serve them" attitude) Although she was not happy, she never spoke about this to her parents.
- Then there was the girl who over-gesticulated, at our "coffee date", to the point where people at nearby tables were ducking. She also had enough gold on her that I figured she was wearing protective armor, then I thought she was going for a bharatanatyam arrangetram and finally I realized that she never took classes.
- Then I met the self-professed "non-meat eater" (according to her seafood is somehow a vegetable…a smelly, slimy wriggling vegetable) who, during our first conversation, told me that she hated India and also, that her parents would move in with me if this ever worked out.
- The nail in the coffin was "Hello. Are you going to move to Texas, because I do not want to move"—all before I could open my mouth to return her greeting.
As for the women in the anecdotes above, I do not claim to have met all of their expectations and these were issues I personally had, they were just not the right one for me. When faced with all this, I was willing to wait for the right time and place, before putting down my "requirements".
Compare this to the girl I found, She is patient, willing to work towards common goals and we understand each others thought process. Yes her mother tongue is different and she goes to church, but she does not have a problem with the style of the wedding or visiting a temple. When you (and I mean both parties) take time in understanding a person, the "issues" take care of themselves.
I never said it was easy, but the basics, the ground work if you will was already available to facilitate the majority of our dreams. My plain vanilla was just that, plain vanilla, my avial on the other hand came with a side order of heaven.
Also ,I am a firm believer that regardless of whether you are desi or not,in the des or wherever in the world you need to get into marriage with your eyes open about the in-laws.Like it or not, your partner's folks are the ones that you will be meeting on family occasions, festivals and at some point your partner ( and therefore you by extension) may have to pitch in to look after them in their old age. Unless you decide to cut ties completely for whatever reasons, they are your family now too and if you cannot stand them , better to think about it before taking the plunge.
Runakka, you were sooo much nicer than I was. ;)
I am not sure peas are a staple ingredient in the avial. Carrots, yes. But ask my mom and she would frown at peas. In South Indian cooking, peas are generally not standard. Even chole and rajma are not that very common, actually, at least in Tamil and Mallu cooking.
Hey Rani at 21
Me, too (TN Hindu married to Kerala Christian)!! And, to add another dimension I'm American and he's Canadian. Our parents have actually been pretty great about the whole thing, though.
Lucky dawg!
Saaary madam.
I am going to use this as my primary greeting from now on. Ignore the fact that I don't live in Texas.
Aiyo, please to not be putting paneer in the aviyal! Sho!
Runa,
Amma dear has been "visiting" for the last 6 months. So technically my better half is living with her in-laws.
I know all about it :-)
Just to clarify on my comment, i'm not asking anyone to get rid of their family members, just make sure you have boundaries for own family and in-laws. Trust me makes life a lot earier.
Anna, what is it with you and paneer anyway? You might very well end up married to a Wisconsin dairy farmer.
Kiwi, I can understand what you must be going through.
My parents are a semi-aviyal couple (Muslims from different communities). But that was as far as they were willing to go. They have been completely intolerant of our (me and my siblings) relationships - all of us are married into Hindu families. My dad in trying to accept our choices is concerned about his grand children "What's their religion going to be?" and it is a valid concern. My mom hasn't spoken to me in months. Her excuse is her religion - Islam is intolerant of mixed marraiges. This I can't understand. It has been emotionally exhausting (for all involved) dealing with this family drama for a couple of years now. It helps to have your friends close.
Btw, planning your interreligious wedding is a whole other story!
How long would it take before someone says "awwwwwww"? Can I say it? ;)
Hehe!
can someone define undermenschen?
Damn, for a moment I read that as "Semia aviyal" and started planning the recipe too.
Nice! I never seen this sensitive side of yours.
Proud product of an aviyal relationship here! My dad is from Karnataka, my mom is from Andhra, both different castes, and had disputes re: minor religious aspects early on in their marriage. They get on fine now though, mostly because they're too tired to argue about religion, ha! Life is just more interesting when you're aviyal ;)
Wow, My maluself is going to run home to tell my half malu/half anglo-indian wife from hyderabad that we have an Aviyal relationship! I always wondered if there was a term for it. I can't wait to see how our daughter describes herelf to her brown peers when she grows up...
Ironically enough, a lot of our friends here in chitown are products of Aviyal relationships from back in the 70s.lots of half malu/half others going on...
Currently, we have had the same "suitable" partner issues within the malu community here...lots of people going outside specific religion and race out here in chicago...
on side note, me no like aviyal :(
undermenschen, n: beard. sometimes another chin.
not to be confused with ubermenschen, a mustache.
I'm South Indian! Down with paneer! I will not be oppressed by North Indian cheese! Never mind that I love "regular" cheese (read: feta, goat, sharp cheddar, pepper jack, provolone, mozzarella, fresh mozzarella, mizithra, asadero, gouda, parrano, parmesan...pretty much everything but brie and swiss and american).
Eh, it just weirds me out to see cheese in Indian food. :) Can't...comprehend...paneer. I ate fresh Mallu food daily, for 21 years, and we were such narrowly-focused herbivores, I didn't taste thayir sadham until this year, because IT WASN'T MALAYALEE. :D The one time I asked my mom to make Aloo Paratha instead of chapathi, I got a flour-handprint on the side of my head. Owww.
What? No Venezuelan Beaver Cheese?
Well, enough of this cheesiness.
I am Lemurian too, but I don't see a major difference between paneer and curdled milk, which is used in Tamil cooking for some things like Therattu Paal. The fact that it is drained of its water/whey content is relatively minor.
Not that I am trying to get you to accept paneer or anything, just sayin' that it's not necessarily North Indian.
Aloo Paratha....the quintessential punjabi breakfast. Now I have to visit mom this weekend.
ANNA, you must break free from the mallu food world! i LOVE south indian food, but i have my share of cravings for the northie dishes - pani puri, chole, and gobhi ke parathe to be specific. and i do love my paneer - last summer was devoted to creating the perfect paneer tikka on the grill. in fact, my great love for paneer also created a sort of aversion to tofu for some time - when my mom tried to substitute it for paneer in korma and matar paneer. the one thing i've learned - don't mess with the desi food - it's precise in its ingredients for a reason.
sorry to hear that you only just met thayir sadham - that with enna kathirakkai (literally oily eggplant) is supreme comfort food.
o/t but does anybody know desis that use evaporated milk in their chai instead of regular? i know a bunch (oddly, they're all muslim) and it freaks me out...
WHAT! Endey Guruvayoorappa! Endhaana idhu! :D
My grandmom, Paarukutti, must be turning over in her grave now..... :)
It's because of her and her alone that I can't live without thayir saadham. Ultimate comfort food!
I am desperately trying to go low carb and the only thing that makes me break the diet is the lure of "thayir saadham" and Ruchi's maanga thokku (which I hoard, btw, with six bottles in my kitchen cupboard lest the local Subzi Mandi runs out of it when I need it the most!)!
Pingpong Therattu Paal never reminded me of paneer, Rosgulla did.
Garlic free, btw, cos this brown Iyer ass can't stand garlic in his urugaai!
anantha,
I am on day 7 of a low carb diet and my head is aching, I am miserable without "tayir saadam" with nary a roti to break the monotony of chicken,chicken and more chicken :-(
ak,
Enna Kathirikkai - yenna bliss!
Same here! I think it's the color or the lack there of, in the rosgullas (and the paneer) that causes this.
Speak for yourself there sport. There was a point when all I ate was Garlic pickle, oddly enough the trend was started by my childhood mallu friends grandma.
Nice! That was one of my mom's favorite songs (the Monkees original, not the Shrek remake).
Speaking of my mom, there was a time when she really wanted me to get married to a Telugu girl (presumably of the same caste, who knows). As I got older, she pretty much said she'd be happy with a girl of Indian origin. As I've gotten still older, I think they pretty much just want me to get married to anyone (still a girl, though -- I guess that is one thing that won't go off their wish list).
No, I don't mean the final product. I mean the intermediate steps like curdling the milk and stuff. Also I just realized that the term "Therattu paal" can mean sweetened evaporated milk (like paalgova) or the stuff you make by adding yogurt & lemon juice to sweetened milk. I meant the second one, not the first. Here's a recipe: link.
ak,
Paal gova = Therattu paal (unless someone jumps me and beats me up for this definition!)
The only Ruchi I eat/crave is the tomato. Otherwise, it's all Grandma's brand kadukkumanga, tender mango and vadu mango, all the time; like you, I hoard the kadukkumanga, because they get it the least often. :)
Occasionally, I break for this bizarre carrot/chili concoction which is from Andhra, I think.
I have been craving "new" paavaka and aadamanga pickle for DAYS now. Sigh. Can't buy either of those, must beg Moms for a care package. :)
In my fridge/pantry now:
-extra-hot Lime*
-extra-hot Lemon*
-white paavaka
-white kadukkumanga
-kadukkumanga
-paavaka/karela*
-green chili
-extra-hot cranberry*
-irimbanpulli
-nellikai
-some random nutmeg thing
-ambazhanga
Mmmm, pickle.
*made by Moms, vith lowe :)
Lakshmi @ 74 - me too, but the other way around (Kerala Christian married to TN Hindu). My plain vanilla candidates were about as funny as Karthik's @70. I'd relate some stories, but what if they're SM readers!!
Gotta say the TN-sambar + Kerala-beef-fry combination in our house rocks.
runa, it is isn't it? when i tried out low-carb (so not for me, i didn't last three weeks) i substituted yoghurt and tadka (i.e. sans sadam) and then had it with a poriyal, urugai, or something like enna kathirikkai - it was actually not a bad replacement.
Only for some values of Therattu paal. There exist other values of therattu paal that can be approximated by heating ricotta cheese with sugar, and cardamom for a long time at low temperature until it is slightly caramelized. It's both sweet and sour at the end, like pineapple sambar or pineapple morkozhambu.
Yikes. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. The food sure sounds yummy. Take out is my friend:(
Guess you could call mine a Gumbo Marriage given that I'm Okra and married to Corn Starch and we live in New Orleans (where okra and corn starch are essential ingredients in a good gumbo).
Since I'm starving right now, allow me to proclaim my undying love for Aviyal and my mom's friend, the lovely Marathi lady who made the world's best version of it (and is also now no longer with us).
ak/runa: I have this Canadian-desi friend/colleague/trainer who wants me to stay off rice and rotis. I don't tell him, but I do make some sambhar/kootu/poriyal types and eat it with thayir and uruga, sorely missing the rice in the process!
Ofcourse I do cheat sometimes and take the rice too :D
I hope he does not read SM!
Bah! All this talk is making me hungry!
heh..
With all this talk of pickle, I think we should have a pickle tasting / eating meet up.
And I thought my pineapple rasam was as exotic as it could be! Recipe please?
i'm so glad i'm indian, i've gotten to eat the best food ever growing up.
just being thankful for the food.
i don't have anything to contribute to the aviyal, its fusion cooking in my house.
Vegan Sandesh? Sacrilege!
anantha, have you tried mixing it up with more whole grains? can't do much for the rice dishes (i tried brown basmati - it was horrible) but you can for rotis - atta is whole wheat, plus you can make other kinds of rotis using other whole grains. i also found this health food store that sells fresh idiyappams made from red rice - every once in a while i have it with some coconut milk and sugar - yum :)
Speaking of Telugu food and pickles, I absolutely *love* the gongura pickle found commonly in southern Andhra Pradesh. Has anyone tried it with ice cream? Another good combination is rava kesari with puli kachal.
Dude(tte), I like gongura pickle but you are scaring me with that combination.
btw, pingpong seems to be rocking the sweet-sour-spicy thing. not my scene (i go as far as sweet mango chutney) but to each his/her own ;)
For lower carb/rice alternatives:
-quinoa
-spelt
-wild rice (seed)
-Amaranth
-kamut
Higher in protein/fiber and lower in carbs. I've tried all of them. Delicious.
Speaking of which (and blame it on my brown genes) but the idea of meat that is sweet is just not as appealing to me. So no orange and lemon chickens.
word. (but don't go calling my parents morons! :P)
i didn't even know what caste my family was until high school social studies class prompted me to ask my parents. but yet they expect me to want to end up with someone of the same caste?? (well, my mother moreso) i really don't care about that. this is what i've noticed about a lot of desi parents (yes, getting into generalization territory here, but i'm speaking from my experience and what i've seen in my community). they don't teach you the language, the meanings of the customs, what the religion's central tenets are (possibly because they don't actually know any of this themselves?), etc., but still somehow you're expected to know all this and uphold it to boot. AND they want you to carry it on to the next generation, talking about how we must 'preserve our culture,' when even the younger generation in india is much more open-minded about interracial, interregional, and even same-sex marriages.
/steps off soapbox
HEY! That IS a good idea. Sign me up. Or down.
@anantha:
Pineapple sambar: pretend it's potato sambar or any other sambar, but add chopped pineapple (in pineapple juice, no sugar syrup) instead.
Pineapple morkozhambu: Oil, mustard, cumin, any other spices if you want, red chilli powder, turmeric. Add pineapples in juice (no sugar syrup), saute for a while, add yogurt (natural, no gelatin) and salt. Add water if you want it dilute. Boil everything until pineapple has soaked up the yogurt inside. Done.
Pineapple rice: Oil, tadka, pineapple (and other veggies if you want: carrots/peas/mushrooms/cashews/peanuts/raisins/oranges/peaches), all in a pressure cooker. Add washed/dried rice, stir fry for a while. Add water, salt, close lid, pressure cook till done. Usually sour after pressure-cooking.