August 28, 2007
Call the Wambulance! We have a pre-med allergy!Identity
A slightly Anonymous Tipster operating via the chimney which is our News tab gifted me with a robust cup of breakfast-reading which perked me right up.
How’s that for two utterly unrelated metaphors? Huh? Yeeeah, boyee.
Now you are surely not asking, “what got you all twitchy and agitated, Anna?”, but I am going to gift you with an answer anyway! I’m hyper thanks to the latest advice column from Cary Tennis, which is published at Salon.
Today’s edition of Cary-wisdom is inspired by a letter writer (LW) who can be neatly summed up by the title of the column:
I don’t want to be a doctor!
Fair enough, LW. A good number of us did or didn’t, but I want to know more about you, even as part of me groans, knowing I will regret it and get all uber-bitch on your ass by the end of this.
Aug. 28, 2007 | Dear Cary,
I am 20 years old, go to a state university, and am severely confused on what I want to do in life.
When I was little, I wanted to be an “artist.” With the beret, paintbrushes and canvas. Then, I moved on. Sure, I loved art, and enjoyed it, and was good at it, but I realized I wasn’t exceptionally creative in that sense. So I wanted to be a journalist. That idea left as soon as it entered my mind in high school. Then, toward the lag end of high school, I got interested in becoming a doctor. It wasn’t out of some desire I had to cure the world or make lots of money. It was because of my parents.
My parents and my family are from the Indian subcontinent and are Muslim. In their minds, the best thing to be is a professional. Especially a doctor. My father always tells me that I should be a doctor to help people and to be independent. My dad works away from home and flies back to my family every three to four weeks. It’s a hard life for him, because he misses out on our lives. It’s important to him that I become independent and have the ability to work wherever I want to. So, in high school, I took some medical classes. I enjoyed them; they weren’t my favorite classes, but they were, I suppose, “all right.”
When I started applying for university, for my possible majors, I would alternate between political science and English. My mother would ask me to write “pre-medicine” next to the others. Therefore, when I got accepted, I was put into the pre-professional advising. I never truly desired to become a doctor. The only reason I wanted to become one was to help people. To fix them. So I kept going. I took biology, chemistry, bioethics.
Then, my sophomore year, last year, I fell apart. I took physics and organic chemistry. I was doing terribly in both. I made a 48 on my first exam in physics and a 63 in organic. I had to decide whether or not to drop physics. I eventually did, and I was so disappointed in myself. You see, I did well in high school. I took many Advanced Placement classes, made A’s, and was an excellent student. And I got burnt out. I just couldn’t force myself to work. I tried, but it wasn’t enough. I didn’t care enough. So I eventually made a C in organic.
It was during this semester that I would get these sort of panic attacks. I would just cry and cry when thinking about how badly I was doing in life, in organic, in everything. This is what really scared me the most. I always prided myself on not stressing out, not freaking out, and doing well in what I was studying for. But here was a class that just broke me down into tears. I couldn’t study when I was like that.
Then, the spring semester began. I took the second part of organic. Struggled through it and was averaging a C in the class. Then I fell apart again. I made a 48 on my last test, which dropped me to a D. I had to make an amazing grade on the final. I didn’t start studying for the final until the night before because I had basically given up. I failed the class with an F. In all my other classes that semester, I made A’s and B’s.
So now I don’t know what to do. I’m signed up for organic again this semester, with the same professor I failed with. I’m already freaking out about it. I don’t want to have those panic attacks again, but I can feel my heart rate getting faster just thinking about it and typing it out. I don’t think I want to be a doctor anymore. But I don’t know what else I can do. I’m majoring in English, and I enjoy writing, reading, and analyzing, but what could I do? I know I’m good at it. I’m thinking about public policy, law school, etc. Sometimes I blame my parents for, in a way, forcing me to do pre-med. It prevented me from pursuing architecture, for example. Or anything else. I know I shouldn’t blame them, but it seems so convenient.
I want to do so much with my life. I don’t want to regret anything. I want to study abroad and travel and do the Peace Corps and help people. But I need to make a decision.
What should I do, Cary? I trust your advice. I read your column and your advice is always sound. If you could help me, I would be so grateful.
Typical Confused College Student
There is this phrase in Malayalam my Father used almost daily; I wish I could recall it, so I could butcher its spelling right now. It was something to the effect of, I’ll break your bones and GIVE you something to cry about, you little twerp. Or similar. But let’s allow the sensitive Amreekan (whom I’m a huge fan of, normally, btw) to have his say, since it IS his column we are disgusting discussing.
Dear Confused College Student,
We interupt this post to raise a point of clarification: I’ve numbered the paragraphs below , so they’re easier to refer back to and pillage, no need to thank me, it’s just the kind of blogger I am.
1.) Your parents are sitting on the floor in the living room, playing with a doctor doll. The doctor doll wears a nice white lab coat. The doctor doll is good-looking and rich. The doctor doll has a whole doctor household complete with doctor grandchildren and doctor spouse, and the doctor is in a Lexus driving down the street waving to admirers. Your parents have some play money and they have piled it up next to the doctor. The pile of money is nearly as tall as the doctor.
2.) Your parents would be very upset if someone were to take the rich doctor doll away. So you must use the tactic of redirection. You must show your parents something that is just as interesting to them.
3.) You must wave a shiny lawyer in their faces. You must say, “Look, parents! Shiny, famous lawyer! Rich, famous, shiny lawyer! CNN consultant fees!”
4.) In this way, you can induce them to turn their attention from the rich doctor doll to the rich lawyer doll, without feeling that they have lost a precious dream. If all goes well, they will forget about the doctor and will soon be back on the living room floor, assembling a rich lawyer family, complete with lawyer spouse, successful lawyer children and a big expensive lawyer house filled with money to the ceiling.
5.) You would think that you could just talk to parents. But they aren’t like that. You can’t talk to them. You have to treat them like children.
6.) You, on the other hand, are fairly adult. You know what you need to do. You just have to clear some space for yourself to do it.
7.) While you’re at it, in case you are feeling alone, take a look at this article on Sound Vision. It addresses your situation almost precisely: “The child wants to be an artist; his parents want him to go to med-school and become a doctor. The child wants to be a political scientist; his parents want him to be an engineer. This clash seems to be especially prevalent in immigrant Muslim families.”
8.) And it makes one particularly encouraging observation that might be persuasive to your parents: “Muslim leaders have long complained about the lack of Muslims pursuing careers in the media.”
9.) Law is a difficult career, and it may not be exactly what you wish to pursue for your entire life. But I think you have a good shot at it and should give it a try. It can be a springboard to many other occupations, journalism and writing principally among them.
10.) Your parents are right about one thing. They know, as countless other immigrants have known, that though American society is an open place, it is not a kind, safe place. It is a place where you have to make your own way. You have to establish status for yourself. If not, you will be trampled. That’s the way it is here. So they are right to push you to acquire a profession that will afford you some protection from the vicissitudes of capitalism and individualism.
11.) Sure, you will have to change some of your educational arrangements. But you would have to do that anyway. You flunked organic!
12.) Don’t worry. It’s probably the best course you’ve ever flunked.
13.) Law is excellent training for a writer. Look at Salon’s Tim Grieve, for instance, and Glenn Greenwald. They are both lawyers. They are also powerful writers working as journalists.
14.) So drink some coffee and cancel the pre-med studies.
15.) Throw yourself into what you love best. Make yourself happy. Excel. Immerse yourself in it. Go toward what you love. Work. Graduate. Stay healthy.
16.) Keep telling your parents you’re going to law school.
17.) Then join the Peace Corps.
18.) After the Peace Corps, you’ll know what to do.
Oh, my. What struck me first about all this was how— for lack of a better word— unoriginal the dilemma is…a LOT of us have been exactly where LW is, which partially explains my sarcasm-infused title. Anyway, what follows are my thoughts on specific points Cary made (see why I numbered things?).
…….
Re: no. 3 Anyone else sick of people substituting law school for med school, as if the two are super similar? No? Just me? Meh.
As for the “famous” and “CNN consultant”-bit, I thought there was a glut of lawyers, who are often an ambitious, deliciously ruthless bunch (I speak fondly because like every other quondam debate dork, I almost went, you know), who will annihilate this sniveling child as if they were an amuse bouche.
…….
Re: no. 5 You can’t treat your parents like children. Not if they’re desi. Well, you can, if you enjoy the sensation of a Bata chappal as it glides upside your head, but that’s all you. Seriously though, I know I’m officially ancient because I’m indignantly offended on behalf of this kid’s parents. You know what’s awesome about being 32, though? I DON’T GIVE A SHIT.
…….
Re: no. 6 “Fairly adult” my callipygian rondure. This kid has been directed and pushed, their entire life, “guided” forcefully by parental decisions. That’s why LW can’t make an important choice—they don’t know how. Believe me, I speak from experience, after being raised by an over-protective Father who chose MY major for me, as well.
The one thing Cary SHOULD have told LW is to take a deep breath and prepare for some harsh-but-necessary emotional growing pains. Hie thee to the student counseling office, honeychile, because you gonna need it. It’s awful and challenging, but learning how to make your own choices MUST be done…long before you mindlessly traipse off to law school or whatever else. Take it from one who knows and has the scrapes and scars to prove it.
…….
Re: no. 7 “especially prevalent in immigrant MUSLIM families (emphasis mine)”?? As opposed to the obvious lack of clash in immigrant homes which religiously identify as Christian, Jewish, Sikh or Hindu? Come ON. This is not a Muslim thang. Mira, this is a BROWN thing. An IMMIGRANT thing. Really, a normal thing.
…….
Re: no. 8 I really don’t think the Muslim community needs more problems—LW can’t speak on behalf of themselves, let alone a massive world religion. One thing at a time. See: my response to number 6.
…….
Re: no. 9 STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHO DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO TO “GO TO LAW SCHOOL”. This is why every lawyer I know (and I know almost a hundred), with the whopping exception of four of my friends, HATES THEIR LIFE. The Law is not an easy-way out. Respect it, don’t use it when what you really need, is a year off to backpack around Turkey or Nepal or just chill, while you figure out what you think you want to do for the foreseeable future. Taking out loans which will later encircle your ankle like a golden chain, keeping you trapped inside corporate law will not make you any happier than flunking O-Chem, LW.
My most miserable friends are the ones who regret going to law school, who work at “big firms”, who wake up to find hair on their pillow, because it’s falling out, who have ulcers and budding substance abuse problems. I find the “Oh, well…if I can’t figure out what to do, I’ll just go to law school!”-attitude offensive, because I really love the law. One of my friends who is a medical resident said something to the effect of, “Be damned sure this is what you want to do, because it’s not worth the sacrifices unless it’s what you love.” Um, yeah. That goes for everything, because just about everything requires sacrifice, if you want to achieve success.
…….
Re: no. 10 Your parents are right about plenty of things, LW. I started to grok this around age 23. Don’t get it twisted— you, LW, and I, will NEVER know what manner of struggle our parents survived, as new immigrants to this foreign place. There was no internet to utilize as a resource for information, and if they came here in the late 60s, early 70s, there was no community to cushion their landing, either. My mother didn’t know that Oklahoma would get cold in the winter, so she didn’t have a proper coat. She shivered until she could save enough to afford one. My father, who was worried that everything had some meat byproduct in it, unless he cooked it, was a borderline manorexic.
Your parents suffered, too. It made them fierce and strong and it taught them ridiculously valuable lessons about life, which they are using to guide you because they love you more than anyone else will and want to see you thrive. I could never pick up at 21 and move to a totally different country, where I didn’t have a single family member and knew nothing about the local culture, and build a life for myself. I can’t do that at age 32. But my mother did it, when she was more than a decade younger than me. And I worship the ground she treads on, because of it. When I’m not swearing in two languages in her long-suffering, tolerant presence, that is. My point is, your parents, more often than not, unless they are advocating extreme things like forced marriage, are right.
…….
Re: no. 11 You know what I wish Cary had said at this point? What I wish the dean at the College of Letters and Sciences had said to me, when as a miserable Freshman, I said that I hated my major and wanted to transfer schools, but didn’t know what to do, since I was a sheltered, barely-18-year old. Here’s what the dean said:
“College is tough, but at least your parents are paying for it…you’ll be fine. Political Science can be fun! And much more useful than South Asian Studies, which you’d have to go to Berkeley for…”
Here’s what I wish he said:
“There are these amazing resources called pell grants and student loans—if you’re concerned about the financial implications of standing up to your parents, head to the financial aid office and see what your options are.”
If this kid is worried about getting cut off financially, there is no better country in which that could happen. Especially if you’re at a state school, which is cheaper than a private one.
…….
Re: no 13 (and now I have the Pixies in my head, :) …Law is excellent training for a lot of things, but as my embittered ivy-league JD/MBA ex-bf reminded me, ad nauseum, when he got home from work every morning at 1:30 am from his “big” Manhattan firm, for his five hours of restless sleep, IT IS NOT REQUIRED IN ORDER TO BECOME A WRITER.
…….
Re: no 15 Yes. Do what you love. If you are passionate about something, you will give up jealous boyfriends, reading for pleasure and half of your social life for it, even when you don’t get paid. LW, once you find something which fulfills you to the point where you can’t imagine NOT doing it, you’ll be all right. College, where you can have a range of different experiences and the opportunity to sample so many classes, is an excellent place to start the process through which you uncover your bliss. :)
…….
Re: no 16 Sigh.
…….
Re: no 18 Maybe. Sometimes, that sort of experience/perspective-gathering/kick in the kundi is exactly what we need.
…….
What do you think (like I need to ask)?
anna on August 28, 2007 01:25 PM in Health and Medicine, Humor, Identity, Musings · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
I stand proudly as one of the four lawyers ANNA knows who does NOT hate his life and, in that capacity, agree wholeheartedly with everything she said about going to law school. In my sometimes skewed outlook, a job is a job is a job. Even if it's something you love, it's still just a job. It pays the bills. If you are miserable at your job because they're something you'd rather be doing, then a) quit your job and do it (this might involve starvation), or b) get a less interesting job that leaves you time to pursue your love as a hobby (this was my path). What I don't want to hear are complaints about how much you hate your job. I am SICK AND TIRED of friends foisting their miseries on me because they don't have the balls or the creativity to do something interesting.
I think medical school is pretty cool, and the career prospects are pretty incredible if you take the time to super-specialize.
Law school--well, you learn a lot--perhaps the mistake is thinking that the "big firm" route is the way to go--after all, you're just the "help" there--there are plenty
of smaller businesses that need (good) legal advice--so--start your own firm after a couple of years.
And, of course, i-banking comes with those "chasers"! ;-)
But, ultimately, there are some very smart and very successful people in just about every field--so it's best to do something you excel at.
It's a difficult, but all-too familiar struggle that folks deal with beyond the age of college as well. My 32 year old coworker is considering a complete change of career (going from public health to the indie music scene) after finally cutting ties with her Peruvian-born parents expectations.
So many of us suffer from the pressures not only from our parents (mine were thankfully open to my choice) but also from the community-at-large. Almost all of my Indian peers in my city went into medicine or engineering field (with a few rule benders choosing Law), and it was hard not to get swept into that expectation and follow the crowd.
My heart went out to the LW in particular because of his confession about experiencing panic attacks. I used to get them myself years ago and they are are horrible to experience, and an all-too-real symptom on very real stress. Panic attacks are a strong signal that something has to change (whether in your thinking or your actions) and I'm really glad he's reached out for help. I only wish the advice columnist had thought to advise him to go to the mental health clinic at his university.
It won't be easy for him to stand up to his parents (because they come from their own past and experiences), but ultimately he has to remind himself that this is *his life*.
Anna said:
I am continuously blown away by this when it comes to my mother as well. She was 21 years old when she flew by herself to this country (into Albany, NY in the middle of a record-breaking snowstorm), to meet her husband who was a virtual stranger to her. They had had an arranged marriage, and 3 months after their wedding, he flew off on his own to the States to pursue his PhD, leaving her behind for 2 years to live with his family in Rajesthan (she's from Gujarat). I don't know how she did it--but she also knew she had no choice. She was a married woman and she went whereever her husband was.Lucky for her, her husband turned out to be a pretty great guy (yay Dad!). =)
I can't get over how bad that advice is!
A N N A, I'm only 22, and I was horrified at how Cary treated LW's parents - so it's not you being 32, it's you being a decent person. He actually advocated belittiling them and treating them like children. What is that all about? And THEN, the idiot advocates that LW stay the parents doll, just change the outfit. What kind of idiotic advice is this?
I think both of 'em need a solid Bata upside the head. I'm totally sending this to my Chachas with a thank-you note for being such awesome parents that I never had to sound this stupid.
That kid needs to take advantage of his school's counseling services.
a) quit your job and do it (this might involve starvation), or b) get a less interesting job that leaves you time to pursue your love as a hobby
a) wow. and here I'd thought you'd suggest something unreasonable
b) how does less interesting == more time?
@ Aadarshini, #4: I don't think it's fair to call the kid stupid - like Anna mentioned, he's apparently led a sheltered life and it can be hard to figure out what to do. This may be a little off-topic, but I really think that parents who want to protect a kid from every bad thing in the world and make all the decisions for them are doing that kid a total disservice. How can you get along in the world when you can't figure out things for yourself?
And Anna, as you mentioned, even picking up and moving to a completely different country and culture, while most of our parents didn't have a choice (e.g., if it was the wife following the husband), that was a pretty big move in and of itself, and they didn't have anyone telling them how to handle it. So granted, our parents, who came to this alien culture, are probably stronger than most of us, but at the same time, they have to realize that their children also need to learn to fend for themselves..
he needs to get over his parents,and do whatever it is he needs to do for himself cos times a runnin
shalu, i think the world is too harsh a place to parade the above as an achievement. tell this to an iraqi or a kid in slums of india, or even to someone in a poor/low middle class family in india. it is great that this country is secure enough that this is considered pain. but it helps to know that in the big scheme of things this is a very very privileged position to be in.
i like the tone of anna's writeup. too often, kids are so sheltered that they never see how harsh the world can be. that is fine by me, they are kids after all---it is annoying that popular culture panders to teen angst as if it were something inflicted by nazis, instead of merely seeing it as growing pains. yeah, maybe peace corps or even a trip to desh (and not the high flying one) will help.
Have you ever heard anyone being passionate about a 9 to 5-er? I'm sure they exist, but I've yet to encounter one. Many, if not most, of the people I know who work 9-to-5 do so because it gives them time to do stuff outside of work.
All of this points to a huge demand for clinical psychologists/psychotherapists from a desi or asian background. Cary Tennis is well intentioned but out of his element
Definitely. I've been where LW is right now. My situation was a little different in that I liked my science major, but was doing poorly in school. I was feeling the pressure from the 'rents to finish in four and ended up signing up for too many classes and going on the dreaded double secret academic probation. I didn't drop classes in time and was advised by the academic counselor to see a psych counselor about my stress and class load. It helped a lot and I was able to drop my class after the drop date because the psych counseler can give you a free pass.
And in the end I talked to my parents and let them know what was going on and they completely surprised me and were very understanding and supportive. I think a lot of the times we just assume what are parents' reaction will be and we keep things from them, don't talk to them, don't open up to them and perpetuate a distant relationship.
What Cary should have said is talk to your parents, talk to a school counselor. Instead he chose to be a complete asshat and give insulting advice.
the law school is a jumping off point to writing or journalism is 'tarded. the loans suck. if someone wants to get some grad education before doing journalism or writing they should do a humanities or social science doctorate where most of their costs are covered, and they actually specialize in a particular area of knowledge instead of learning more process and method.
The advice is bad, it's true. I hate when people redirect folks to law school as the thing to help them figure out life. It is not worth the debt, drama, or time if you don't know why you're there. Also, how will that make this already miserable kid any happier, except that it may be easier (given his/her skill sets) to pass his/her coursework?
You want to be a journalist? Get an internship. Write for your college paper or radio station. Consider J-School. Better yet, just work in the industry and forget grad school altogether. I feel for the kid. But also, I think Cary whatsitsbucket doesn't understand the factors underlying why immigrant families often push their kids towards professional degrees (medicine, engineering, law, business), and usually it has more to do with financial security/stability and integration than not. Not saying status doesn't factor in, but I think parents really want their kids to be happy, and sometimes they think happiness is only attainable via a pre-professional track.
Have you ever heard anyone being passionate about a 9 to 5-er? I'm sure they exist, but I've yet to encounter one. Many, if not most, of the people I know who work 9-to-5 do so because it gives them time to do stuff outside of work.
Just because 9-5'ers tend to be less interesting, doesn't mean every less interesting job is a 9-5'er.
bytewords said:
Well comparing my coworkers feat to the despair found in third world countries would be completely defeatist--there's absolutely no comparison in my friends triumph to rise above her parental pressures and that of a poor child simply sturggling to gain a college education. No one can dispute the fact that in the U.S. we are incredibly blessed to have the option of choosing a field that we love.However, the anecdote I provided was given as evidence that the LW's struggles are felt my many American kids...and every day brancing out and doing what *they* want is their own *personal* achievement.
I was under the impression that the advice columnist pushed the "Law School button" because the LW said the following:
m+a analyst. you can do wack $hit all day and all night.
Been there. Done that. Stress can also manifest itself physically; I got extremely sick from all the stress and dropped 20 pounds in 3 months.
Just reiterating that this student should visit his/her college counseling center ASAP. Counseling provided me with perspective, maturity, and strength to talk to my parents. As BadIndianGirl says, "I think a lot of the times we just assume what are parents' reaction will be and we keep things from them, don't talk to them, don't open up to them..."
He/she needs to know that he/she doesn't have to go at this alone. And--more likely than not--his/her parents will understand... eventually.
Ohhh whenI read such stories and some of your comments how I wish I had parents like you:) Mine were the completely opposite. They never forced me, never expected anything out of me and they also never guided me .....I made my own choices about college and education. I remember I used to come home from school with my report card in hand and my parents wanted to know if I had passed...that was it! They just wanted me to pass.....as opposed to my friends whose parents would come to school every week, discuss things with the teachers, personally interview tutors, helped the kids with homework and were disappointed that their kid had stood third in class! Mine never did that! I turned out fine...no doubt...am a "not so satisfied lawyer" now working my ass off at a big lawfirm dreaming of baking cakes and opening my own little coffe/cake shop.
I always feel that had my parents pushed me and guided me a little bit more.....I could have achieved a lot more and a lot faster than I have now!
Sriram, I used to work 9-5, at a nonprofit nonetheless (what? regular hours?!), and loved it :) That said, it definitely was an exception to the rule as far as my usual work routine goes =/
mithi, I think there's a difference between your parents being involved/excited/interested and feeling like they confine your career choices. I know for some kids their parents threaten to cut them off if they don't go into a field they approve of. It can be harder than it sounds. That said, I personally think education is one of the only things worth taking out mad debt for. If things get really bad, I think it's also important for college kids to realize that 1) they're adults now, and 2) sometimes you have to make adult decisions. Seeing a career counselor or anyone who can offer support, in that case, is always helpful.
I don't work for an NFP, but many of my clients are NFPs and I can tell you the employees there are for the most part happy and easy to work with and hardly every work more than an 8-hour day. My for-profit clients are bitter, unhappy and in general more snippy and mean to us.
Also, I'm on the board of a NFP and our staff absolutely loves what they are doing, and so YES! you can be happy at a 9-5, but as Camille said, NFPs tend to be an exception to the rule.
That's me in a year...perhaps I should specialize in counseling career confused desi kids?
Incidentally, I do have an undergrad degree in journalism and busted my ass doing internships in college, only to realize my senior year I wasn't so interested anymore. So I spent 5 years after undergrad floating around and ended up in a middle management position that paid the bills until I figured out what I wanted to do (hence the grad school).
Of course, my father feels guily for not giving me more guidance during those 5 years, but I know the guidance would have been "Move back home" or "Go to law school", and I would have felt I was pursuing their dream, not mine (as with the journalism, in a rounadabout way). He's not worried baout job prospects or the fact that I'll be lucky to crack $50K the first few years out of school; he's concerned that I will get married after I'm 30.
So really, parents take a LOT to be happy, I say, and yes, I agree with others who say the kid should have sought out counseling, although not all counselors are culturally competent, and the one he/she went to see may have said something similar to Cary rather than taking cultural considerations into account.
I was hoping Gawker would rip into this advice (as they make fun of Cary Tennis on a weekly basis) but no such luck. Maybe a bit touchy for them.
The LW has posted a response with further information here
Before anybody jumps on the parents.
BIG, actually the 9-5 was the exceptional aspect :) Most nonprofits I've worked with work ridiculous hours (definitely comparable with corporate hours -- 70-100 hour weeks, etc). I was tickled to be able to come into a place that recognized that while it was sometimes necessary to pull longer days/weeks, overall your employees' mental health will help fuel their productivity and happiness in an area of work that is often disheartening, depressing, and draining (albeit important, necessary, heartfelt).
i don't think so shalu. everyday billions on the earth survive untold misery, they are just as human as anyone in the US. the moment you see yourself differently, you will not be prepared to meet the challenges posed by "them". and no matter what lou dobbs wants, you will have to deal with them at some time. visas and whiteness can keep them out only so long. besides they should be an inspiration to you, a testimony to human spirit.
He's not worried baout job prospects or the fact that I'll be lucky to crack $50K the first few years out of school; he's concerned that I will get married after I'm 30.
Hmm, I wonder in the heirarchy of concern, why does the latter outweight the former.. *rubbing chin* Hmm. I wonder indeed.
The irony of the whole thing is, for the people who were coming over to the states in the 60's and 70's, it wasn't necessarily an 'in vogue' thing to do, sure there might have been some prestige, but to come and settle I'd say was something that many parents didn't 100% support. Yet when they come here, they turn into sheep minded thinkers.
Re: 22, 25:
NFP has nothing to do with employees. That's why you're not seeing a trend. For-profit or NFP, employees have contracts with the firm. NFP is about a different relationship between financers and firm (donations v. loans & equity).
Doctors know how to take care of women, so they have my endorsement!
Anna, despite my love for you (you know it's true), I'm going to have to go against you on this one. I feel for this kid--I was there. I had the panic attacks because I was flunking Econ classes, because...lord, because I fought every direction my parents and family lovingly (if cluelessly) tossed my way. I got shoved into an accelerated local pre-medical programme at 16 (don't ask, long story), broke out of that to get pushed over into the whole Econ + Finance = MBA course of study, managed to break out of that until two years ago when I finally gave in to the "law school bayta! Be a vakeel!", and had to claw my way out of a life of (what seemed to me) misery. I got cut off financially twice (and you think it's bad when you're a teenager, imagine when you're a Pakistani student who can't be legally employed and gets shafted with payments under the table by complete dickheads), resorted to pole-dancing at one point (again, long story), and finally managed to get all my shit sort of sorted.
Wow, now I need therapy. Sorry about that.
The point is, I don't think LW is a tool or particularly stupid. I think s/he is a fairly good example of a desi kid who doesn't want to give up the security with which s/he was raised or necessarily make his/her parents upset, but is also somewhat used to being told what to do, and hence the "I turn to Cary!"--it's like a last-ditch "Will someone please tell me that I should do what makes me happy?"
And as for Cary:
Oh, amen. I like Cary's advice normally. And I think he's not completely wrong, but he's obviously got to spend some time with my Ammi, who despite being one the sharpest women I've ever had the misfortune to try and bluff is in some matters--especially with those really close to her heart--best treated with the sort of care and sense of fragility that one would use with a child (well, obviously not my insanely hyperactive and resilient nephews, but theoretically with other children). I don't think it's about talking down to them; it's more about treating them as delicately as possible because they *do* tend to occasionally overreact to things with which they lack sufficient experience, especially if it could in any way threaten the future happiness/prosperity of their offspring.
OK, I'm losing my mind. Done now.
I know I'm not going to be the only one saying this but that is almost exactly what I went through, down to the Muslim immigrant parents from the Indian Subcontinent. Except - I'd convinced myself that I wanted to be a doctor from the moment I overheard my dad say "wouldn't it be great if she becomes a doctor?" to my mom and grandparents when I was probably about 10. No one literally forced me to put "pre-med" down on my college apps. After I moved back to the States (where I was born) from Karachi to attend a small college in PA, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I HATED my pre-med courses. And wanted to spend more and more time in my English classes. All sorts of emotional hell ensued for some time thereafter.
But - thats not the point. LW's parents are never going to know how unhappy they've made their child by foisting their hopes on him/her (however well-intentioned they may be) if the child doesn't open his/her mouth and try to at least articulate how miserable this particular path is making em. I can't understand how someone who is paid to dole out advice didn't even suggest having an adult, mature conversation with the parents here. Instead this columnist turned the parents into these money grubbing, selfish people that I just am not convinced they are. What rubbish.
There are soooo many other things wrong with that stupid "advice" piece but ANNA said it better than I could. I just feel bad for that kid and really annoyed with Cary.
rob, I'm an auditor and I have worked in the private sector, so I know exactly how the relationship works.
As I said before these are observations made by me and my fellow auditors. And I still stand by my statement that employees at NFPs generally work there because they believe in the cause and what they are doing.
bytewords said:
You're completely extrapolating erroneously from my comments. I'm not at all suggesting that those in third world countries are not human or that their struggle is one that I cannot fathom. I strongly agree with your claim that their perseverence and triumph is an incredible inspiration to the human spirit.
however, that doesn't erase the fact thta everyone has troubles and conflict in their lives. It certainly helps to look at the poor in Africa in order to put some perspective on your own life--but that doesn't mean we should just ignore our own daily struggles (however minute they may be to you).
but that doesn't mean we should just ignore our own daily struggles (however minute they may be to you).
That's true. I have a friend from college who married a financial wall street guy, and they have two places, one in NJ, and one in the upper east side of manhattan (but they.. rent! gasp!), they recently hosted a dinner where it came to nearly $70 per person, because they ordered like their stomachs were balloons.
They wanted to spend a million dollars to purchase a home, but the manhattan real estate people said that wasn't enough for the home they wanted. It was a slap in the face to them. Imagine the inner termoil. Out of seeing their heartbreak, I ran out and started a fund for them, "Luxury Manhattan Homes for Millionaires.." just think about it, for just $5,404 a month, you could give that poor manhattan millionaire the home they deserve.
I wonder why there isn't a wikipedia article on this. Perhaps the mutineers can start a brown wikipedia where terms such as Avial marriage can be defined. (the site itself is a brown wikipedia of sorts now anyway)...
As for the article, I agree with most of what Anna has to say. My only addition is that the only way the parents are going to get their children to listen to them is by giving them advice and letting them choose. No use forcing the children. If they instead do some compare/contrast then the kids are more likely to listen to them.
35 · HMF
That's true. I have a friend from college who married a financial wall street guy, and they have two places, one in NJ, and one in the upper east side of manhattan (but they.. rent! gasp!), they recently hosted a dinner where it came to nearly $70 per person,
_____________________________________________
Puli,
Don't get married too young! This is the stage where the "chasers" come out!
For those who do not want to become doctors but work ih in the medical field you can become a PA (Physician Assistant). First you have to become a licenced EMT, then a Paramedic, which is easy. A PA does everything except perform surgery.
Hey! Cary Tennis's advice could have been a whole lot worse. He could have asked LW to become an engineer, which is what FAR too many desi parents do especially in the desh. I say this from personal experience, having seen a number of my classmates drop out in my first year like rivets off an overstressed bridge, hounded half to death by their parents to "Get into engineering!". Somehow they managed to study and score well enough to get into engineering, when they realize too late that they hate the damned thing and that they have totally burned out beyond belief. I still have a friend from college who wanted to become a writer (a WRITER for crying out loud), who was dragged screaming to end up as an engineer, and now sits around at home all day long writing angsty pieces on Sulekha.com about people with better lives.
Maybe the smart thing for Cary to say would have been "I'm sorry! I really can't find my way to a rest room in South Asia without a South Asian guide dog. You should probably ask a certified South Asian guidance counselor; here are some names I had in my Rolodex.", but I suppose it's too much to ask.
rob, I disagree. While I understand your broader point (that nonprofits nurture donor/org relations more than employee/org relations), I think there's a shift happening in a lot of the more successful, innovative, low-turnover nonprofits towards ensuring "employee mental health." Just my observation from the Bay Area scene, at least.
Anna,
Thanks for this wonderful piece. I am going to get my son to read it.
As DBD parents, who emigrated rather late in life here to the USA , my husband and I struggle with these questions all the time.Should we let go of our inherent desire for financial security for our son ? For us, everything that we have today is the result of our education - (which in both cases was what the parents wanted us to do and not what we thought we wanted to ). I also know that we will not have enough to leave for the kid to be able to be part of the "idle rich "set. Yet, we would also like our son to have the advantage of being what he wants to be .Otherwise what's the point in our moving so far from home - if we cannot let him have opportunties that we ourselves may not have had? No easy answers here , we are still swinging between urging him to make something of his life and letting him alone to find his own way :-)
we are still swinging between urging him to make something of his life and letting him alone to find his own way :-)
These two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
On a cold Delhi night in 1972, in my parents' living room, I wiped my sweaty palms and mustered just enough courage to blurt out to these clueless, confused and terribly concerned people that I had already picked out a wife and a place to live. I told them they already knew the girl and had certainly heard of the place, America. All I needed from them was a one-way ticket and a hundred dollars if they could somehow circumvent the $8 foreign exchange rule. My bride-to-be had assured me that she had a few hundred dollars stashed away in a bank account back in her country, Trinidad. A nest egg of almost $500, I figured, was more than enough to last an entire month in a new country.
I was all of 20 years old.
My poor parents approved wholeheartedly of my harebrained scheme and, just to make sure there were no hard feelings, told me they had always felt I was destined for bigger and better things. It has been 35 years and I am still appalled at my parents' blind faith in me. They had no right to be so trusting. But then they had never read a single book, not even an advice column, on proper parenting. However, they had one parental quality, and that is to trust the gleam in their children's eyes, and if the gleam was intense enough, to believe that success will eventually come. Law school, med school, where to live, how to support oneself and other such issues weren't all that important to them.
I know this is a very personal story but hopefully it adds something to the content of this post.
Happy Raksha Bandhan everybody!
Maybe the kid needs to buckle down and stop flunking classes. I think he needs to change his major if he doesnt like it but he is no martyr for flunking organic chemistry 101. Life is a bitch and he needs to at least put in an effort on things which are important. He should immediately change his major because flunking classes wont help in either finding a job or going to grad school.
ANNA: I dont think most lawyers hate their jobs. Most lawyers dont work for big firms anyway. There are over half a million lawyers in the US and a very small tiny minority works for BIGLAW. Even at BIGLAW the lawyers who do litigation dont exactly hate their jobs. The only lawyers who seem to hate their jobs more than other people are BIGLAW lawyers who do transaction law.
Re: 13
Razib, I don't know what the exact situation is now, but back when I was doing my PhD in Developmental Biology, it seemed that those of us in the sciences had reasonable stipends and fellowships/assistantships, whereas grad students in the humanities/social sciences were always just one paycheck away from destitution. That's not to say that the kid in question should go on to grad school in the sciences; simply that he/she should be aware that grad school in the humanities might be a little challenging financially.
The other day my ABD brother and I were commenting that we wish we had become a doctor and lawyer respectively. Now that i am a parent, I can't believe how wise my parents were. I just wish I had the wisdom to listen to them then.
Runa writes: >> For us, everything that we have today is the result of our (college) education
And that is the deepest flaw among most Indian-born American immigrants. They project their Indian economic experience to America's economic model.
America was not, and still is not, a country that built itself based on college education. It's a country of hard working, creative, risk taking entrepreuners who think differently and do not hesitate to go against the grain. Americans constantly re-invent themselves, hence a mid-life career change is quite common in America - but it's almost unheard of in the rest of the world.
In America, education helps - but only until a point. Beyond that, you've got to be a natural at what you do, otherwise capitalism will eat you alive.
Risk taking is probably one of the greatest qualities parents can foster on their kids, as Floridian's personal anecdote exemplifies.
M. Nam
lovely post Anna, and great analysis...the discussion is wonderful and strangely cathartic as well...many thanks for all the varying opinions...ownership of career choice is a difficult thing to get your mind around, when you are pulled in so many different directions...you feel a certain obligation to your parents, and yet you feel that somewhere in you is the ability to do something more than work for the sole purpose of helping rich people get richer...it's true we are in a privileged position in this country, that we have this dilemma...but, that still doesn't take away our obligation to ourselves to find a way to be happy in our professional lives, and maybe even use our best talents to add value to the world we live in...after all, if not in America, then where else?...
Aww, Sin! I heart you, too, but everyone is already aware of my ardour for thee. :)
I don't think we're too far apart in our take on this, actually. I was on such a tear while fisking this article during my far-too-brief lunch hour to mention that I had panic attacks, too. Still have them. All the more reason for LW to see the counseling office for support-- it totally helped me through undergrad. I reacted the way I did to LW because I very much *was* LW-- I wasn't emoting from a scornful place, I promise. I consummately feel for them and all who are sharing their situation, that's why I vented and wanted to create an alternative space for a valuable, culturally-relevant discussion, since I know some of our lurkers (and commenters) might appreciate it.
I don't think the kid is stupid at all...and I agree, that's exactly why LW turned to Cary; he can't function unless someone tells him what to do. But that was my point...until he learns to tell HIMSELF what to do, he's fucked.
Now please accept my glossimer kisses on both your cheeks, you fantastic morsel of man-candy. Back to my deadline for me. :)
Dear Typical Confused College Student,
Just cause you're hung like a moose doesn't mean you gotta do porn.
Sincerely,
Kumar.
Ah, the age-old story of parental expectations rubbing up against youthful, inchoate dreams.
First, this kid does need to turn to a support system. Maybe a college counsellor, maybe a friendly professor who's on his side. No matter what else he decides to do, he clearly doesn't want to be a doctor, not under these circumstances. He needs to figure out how to tweak that major so that he can take the classes he's interested in and start looking for internships/fellowships in this possible field.
Then, when he has a sorta plan ( and like Anna, I definitely advise looking into alternate financial support as a back-up), he can discuss/inform the parents. Mainly I think kids and parents in this position tend to worry themselves into a corner ( " I/You need to know NOW what you're going to be doing for the rest of your life!") The way things go these days, that iron rice-bowl thing is over.
Or I guess he could do what I did and confuse the parents about his major until he's right about to graduate ( " Oh, those English courses are neccessary for the socio-politico-cultural implications of practising medicine. And writing clear prescriptions").
That's funny about how being a lawyer is supposed to satisfy your writing jones. My parents tried to half-heartedly persuade me that as a doctore I would still get to write. You know, reports, medical articles, prescriptions.
MN, totally disagree. I think you're projecting backwards on the history of the U.S. economy. While a college education was certainly not required even 20 years ago, the returns to education between college and grad school have increased. The economy as a whole is becoming more high skills oriented. You don't need a college education, but even those entrepreneurs who've made it tended to come from relatively stable/affluent backgrounds or were deeply connected in other ways. I don't think sheer creativity and risk can help someone in the system. That said, I agree that a higher education by itself cannot trump work ethic, dynamism, hard work, etc. I do think the contemporary economy requires both.
sorry, haven't read the comments yet, but here's my few paise :
#3 - seriously - law was the only thing he could think to tell this guy (i hear you, ANNA)? he didn't even mention anything nearly related to law in his other interests! also, it just perpetuates the i-don't-know-what-else-i-can-do-but-i-want-to-make-money reason that belongs to half of the law students out there. also, the problem with trying to convince your parents about the law is that you have to show them all the highest potential that exists for a lawyer - $125,000 to start! partner in 8-10 years if i have no life! CNN consulting fees! if you end up convincing them of all that, you actually have the replacement pressure of achieving exactly those goals - nothing less. i've been there (i still am) and it sucks...
#9 - how does this dude know that the writer will be a good lawyer? i would highly advise going straight to the profession in which you have interest, rather than choosing the round about law school path - wtf?
so do i, but if i really knew how hard it was going to be, i would have thought tens times about it. like the confused college student, i had an academic crisis in college, and then another one in law school, to the extent that i went through all the paper work to drop out. for a kid who is having some serious issues, law school is far from a cure-all.>>While a college education was certainly not required even 20 years ago, the returns to education between college and grad school have increased.
This is sad but true to some extent. It a result of "safe" and "secure" mentality seeping into the broader populace, goaded by the college salesmen. High-tech skill set, combined with an increasingly globalised competitive work force have made college education a must-have. I don't have a problem with this as long as risk taking abilities do not take a hit in the process...
M. Nam
shalu @ 17 - i didn't catch that...still, he seemed more interested in other things, so i still find it odd that cary chose one thing and pushed it...
Word. He was all over the place...which is why I guessed that he was falling in to the typical, "What to do? Oh! LAW!"-mindset which would only add three years of heartache and $100k in loans to this quagmire.
LW needs to breathe and get help, for his own sake. If you're having panic attacks in college, what's going to happen when your life gets exponentially more difficult? Handle that shit, first. Panic and anxiety attacks are horrific, no one should suffer through them when they may not have to.
I know one lawyer who loves his job. Even with a few hours of sleep he is always excited about work. He works at a "big" firm but truly loves what he does. But he went to lawschool fully knowing what he was getting into.
Then there are the rest of my friends who went to law school b/c they had absolutely no idea what they wanted to do when they grew up. Law sounded good. Presitigious, right? Lots of money, right? (ha ha ha -- let's just call it middle class insurance). Almost none of them practice. The lesson learned gave them a mighty hefty student loan bill. Now they don't feel free to pursue their dreams b/c Sally-Mae is knocking on their doors.
Don't incur student loan debt b/c you're confused. My best advice for anyone in this situation: try different things out, do an internship, spend a year working in the industry... just don't jump to grad school as the panacea for your problems.
This advice might go against y'all's idealistic grains, but let's face it, it is intensely practical and surprisingly good (generally, I find Mr. Tennis to be somewhat of a pill).
Let's boil down what Mr. Tennis is saying -
1. Buy time - law school prospects in the future are a great way of buying time. I know a lot of people who say that "some day, I'll go to law school" and keep a lot of people happy, without ever going to law school
2. Buy yourself a free option - prepare for law school, do whatever you want in the interim. Law school tends to accomodate that. The LW can always do what they want. In effect, it is costing the LW nothing and they can always go to law school for interest or security after seeing the world.
3. Keep doing what you want, now that you have bought time and option - can't dispute that
4. Take the path of least resistance - why create conflict when you don't have to
5. Keep your true intentions to yourself
My advice to my clients in tough negotiations is almost always some combination of 1-4 above. I tend to incorporate the same elements in personal advice as well.
As for treating parents like children, its a cold thing to say, but I don't view it as insulting. In any negotiation, it pays to see the other side (and this is simply a negotiation) as children - it puts their problem and the solution in perspective.
I think this was incresibly practical, and easy to follow advice. Good for Mr. Tennis.
Sriram @ #1 said:
Word. That's one thing I got from my mother, and I agree wholeheartedly. This whole "your job is supposed to be your vocation, your calling in life" idea is bollocks that causes unnecessary despair for people. (Much like the "your spouse is supposed to be your best friend/hot lover/babymama(daddy)/counselor/healer/everything" idea, but I digress.)
When people were hunter/gatherers do you think they were passionate about hunting and gathering? No, they were like, "Damn, I'm hungry. Sure is nice next to this fire under the pelt with my cavewoman here. But damn, I'm hungry, and the kids are getting on my nerves with their hunger pangs, so I better go hunt, or at least gather." Likewise, farmers. We, here in post-modern urban civilization, may wax poetic about the farming life, the mud between our toes and crapping in the fields, but go ask a farmer how much s/he loves waking up at the crack of dawn to till some fields.
You want to eat? You got to work. Simple. Sometimes you'll hate it less than other times, but you still have to do it.
Floridian @ #43, thanks for sharing your touching story. I sort of lucked out in that my dad was the one whose dad pressured him to become a doctor. He failed three times before changing his major to education (back at Khalsa College, Amritsar), so he was determined not to follow suit with his kids. And my mom is trusting to the point of naivety. Although I got some pressure to study medicine or law or computers, my parents trusted me to make my own decisions. My dad still likes to complain, when success doesn't at his pace, the he "never should have let me" study literature, but there's no way he could have stopped me. I would have gone to the state school if I hadn't been able to find a way to afford the college I did go to. That last bit may sound like I'm ungrateful, but I'm not. I'm so very grateful for the support I've had, but I did often have to fight for it, and it still gets lorded over me sometimes.
I can't tell you how many crap manuscripts crossed my desk when I was a literary agent with something to the effect of "I wanted to be a writer all my life but I've been too busy with my law practice these last 40 years. I just retired and now I finally have the time to write." in the cover letter. They were always crap. Without fail. Seriously.
Ain't that the truth. With mine, if you give 'em one inch, they want two inches. You give 'em two inches, they want four. Give my mom a rope and she wants to be a cowboy. But seriously, if you live your life trying to please others, not only will you fail to please them, you'll fail to please yourself, too. (Except maybe at night, with the lights off and the curtains drawn, under a fort made of pillows and sheets, just you and your dirty sock...)
Chicagodesidiva--my sister is a psychologist in Chicago, but she doesn't work with the desi community. Well, not formally, at least.
Runa @ #41, I agree with HMF's comment following yours. I realize this may be the opposite of reassuring for you, but my girlfriend is a high school dropout who just got her PhD. And when she plays doctor, she plays to win.
My question for Cary Tennis is "What courses should I take in my masters program so I can grow up and become a jackass advice columnist?"
i wouldn't worry too much about your son - i'm sure he'll find his way eventually. like you, my dad is worried about leaving his kids some financial insurance, but i think the biggest advantage of having parents who struggled financially is that they are in the position to provide their kids with a strong foundation - better schools (sometimes) and emotional support. i think this is far more valuable than giving your kids a trust fund (no matter how big or small).
Thank you Anna for a great post.
I don't think ABDs should belittle our own difficulties, however, when comparing them to those of our parents. My parents own identities were formed before they reached America. Even though they came with $20 in their pocket and no support base, they had a really solid sense of who they were. That they were educated, Gujarati, upper caste, etc. Though I had far more material comforts than they did as children, coming to grips with growing up brown in Mobile, Alabama was extremely difficult. My parents couldn't fathom what I was going through even though I tried to tell them and they are thoughtful people. We shouldn't diminish our own struggles vis-a-vis our parents. I hear that all the time from the parents and the children. We have faced different kinds of problems.
One thing I have learned to do which has gotten good feedback is to scare fresh-faced 18-year-olds into NOT joining engineering (substitute law/medicine/business if needed). I jump straight into bleeding details of math, physics, computer code, abstract concepts and the peculiar sense of bad humor shared by engineers, physicists and computer scientists, nearly always making fun of mathematicians. Basically I make a sales pitch like a caricature of a nerd who is totally happy to be a caricature of a nerd. That scares away everybody who is not serious about engineering into whatever they really want to do. I recently did this caricature exhibition to the *parents* of a college-entering kid. I suspect that the pressure dropped on him a lot after they saw what engineers really are like. But the ones who stay, they fit into the culture really well and are happy with their work.
I suppose this could be done for caricatures of doctors as well. Issue surgical instructions on a cell phone from the golf course maybe? "Cut into the left ventricle. With a scalpel. No, your other left!". That ought to scare anybody who's not committed.
re panic attacks - i wish he had written this exact same question to 'ask e. jean' in elle - she would have addressed the mental. emotional, and career aspects in her oh-so unique way ;)
I am learning - as always - a lot from this thread! I don't know if the Mutineers have heard this before but SM is my best resource when this DBD gets puzzled by this wonderful country called Amreeka :-)
But parents are often very different when you're 25 and look and act like an adult, than when you're 20 and their ward. Assuming the LW wants to avoid the conflict with their parents, they may be best off deferring the conflict until later. I've always had a wonderful relationship with my parents and part of it could have been deferring issues that may have upset them earlier (like skipping graduate school) until I had made my way in the world somewhat, and could deal with them as an adult.
Does she wear a denim saree as well? :D
I dont think most lawyers hate their jobs.
someone should do a survey. i know lawyer have higher divorce rates that doctors for instance. and my own personal exp. is that most people who went to law school didn't end up being satisfied (the ones who realized law wasn't their thing ended up with large debt loads that they had difficulty servicing).
whereas grad students in the humanities/social sciences were always just one paycheck away from destitution. That's not to say that the kid in question should go on to grad school in the sciences; simply that he/she should be aware that grad school in the humanities might be a little challenging financially.
yeah, i agree shaad. my only point is that professional schools like law or medicine (or business school) entail a lot more debt by necessity than graduate schools where you can defray the costs via stuff like TAing. grad students in the non-natural sciences might be on the verge of being destitute, but they can always make recourse to taking up debt via loans if it they are that hard up. additionally, i really don't see how going to law school would make you a better journalist or a writer as opposed to doing graduate work in english or history unless you are going to specializing in legal areas.
Anecdotal. The most cogent and elegant writers I have read (non-professionals) have been lawyers. All of these individuals, however, no longer practice the law.
Anna, very thought-provoking post, thank you. I might go against the grain a little on this one.
Engineering, Law and Medicine are professions. They are things that someone with above average intelligence, a bit of aptitude, the desire to work hard, and some luck, can get good enough at, to get a good job, and perhaps a career. Let's not confuse them with a vocation or calling or doing 'what you really are'. The job is something which, (after some time) will give you the ability to afford to spend some time doing 'what you like doing'. By this I want to emphasize - the same amount of intelligence and aptitude that helps you be a competent engineer or lawyer - will not help you become a good physicist or a good writer. Success in these things demands creative abilities of another order altogether - and a huge amount of luck - to be even modestly successful.
And, as an engineer, a lawyer or a doctor - you could work for yourself, and you could work in areas that give you other kinds of satisfaction - e.g. environmental law, or community medicine or etc. Just don't think you can do it the minute you graduate from professional school.
If you can use words well enough to write a readable essay in junior high, you can eventually do the work that you need to become a lawyer, and likewise for engineering and algebra in junior high; or medicine and junior biology. Let's not confuse that with rocket science or being a nerd either. A well-rounded person and an engineer are not contradictions, need not be, and likewise with the other professions.
That's just because doctors have the added hurdle of needing to hire a lawyer in order to get a divorce. Lawyers can just diy. Cut out the middleman!
I know a lot of people here find law/lawyers to be boring and unexciting but let me present the other side.
A lot of the law is adversarial and there is no greater thrill than winning one for your client. Its really that simple, you win and the other party loses. It gives you a great rush similar to shooting a winning basket in the dying seconds and you get to feel that rush every time you win. In the first year of practice, even winning on a technicality makes your head spin and you are inflicted with giddiness for the rest of the week. Walking into the Courtroom armed with smug knowledge about your killer oral argument or the sweaty palms you get while the other lawyer directs and you wait to tear apart that lying snivelling SOB witness on cross is not excitement you can match without paying for it.
I do understand that a lot of the law is procedural and its hours researching cases and conflicts which drag on for years and that can get tedious but every profession has its tedious parts. For people who like competition, apart from competitive sports, there is no better profession than law.
The most cogent and elegant writers I have read (non-professionals) have been lawyers.
but do you think law school was what make them more cogent or elegant writers? or that they already had high verbal aptitudes and law schools select out of that subset? in any case, i don't really think that post-graduate education is necessary if you want to be a journalist or writer in any case; today it is more of a "signaler"?
I remember, back in the day when I had other career ambitions and was taking Physics and Chemistry and my mother's friends trying to get me to do Biology "so you can get into pre-med, beta" ...
Poor kid, I was lucky not to have the pressure from Mum (who was a little bit unhappy but thought it best not to say anything), but I won't ever forget the struggles I had with my older brother (and only sibling) when I told him that I wanted to work in the theatre and worse still, be a playwright (how much money does that make (very quickly followed by), how will you support yourself, don't you want to live comfortably, can't you just do it as a hobby etc). And hey, although I though he was completely against it, he flew in from overseas to surprise me on my opening night of my very first production. It's taken the best part of nine or so years now, but he's come around, as have all of the aunts and uncles (it helped that the other Indian in the industry was very successful - so it became a viable career option). Now they all ask when my next show is and keep telling me about theatre jobs I should go for. People are less resistant thank you think.
I've also become the handy novelty discussion point in a room full of lawyer and doctor friends.
lawyers are unhappy:
http://www.nd.edu/~ndmag/legl2f99.htm
Lawyers suffer from depression, anxiety, hostility, paranoia, social alienation and isolation, obsessive-compulsiveness, and interpersonal sensitivity at alarming rates. For example, researchers affiliated with Johns Hopkins University found statistically significant elevations of major depressive disorder (AMDD@) in only three of 104 occupations: lawyers, pre-kindergarten and special education teachers, and secretaries. Lawyers topped the list, suffering from MDD at a rate 3.6 times higher than nonlawyers who shared their key socio-demographic traits.
Lawyers also suffer from alcoholism and use illegal drugs at rates far higher than nonlawyers. One group of researchers found that the rate of alcoholism among lawyers is double the rate of alcoholism among adults generally, while another group of researchers estimated that 26 percent of lawyers had used cocaine at least once C twice the rate of the general population. One out of three lawyers suffers from clinical depression, alcoholism or drug abuse. Not surprisingly, a preliminary study indicates that lawyers commit suicide and think about committing suicide more often than nonlawyers.
I don't think the law is a bad career choice. I'm of the belief that you should do what you love and the money will follow. I have plenty of friends who are social workers, making a meager salary @ a non-profit, and they're doing more than fine. I just think there's this fear if you don't make a sh*t load of money you are screwed.
Seems so
I just think there's this fear if you don't make a sh*t loa