Ganesh Chaturdhi is also nice because in general, Lord Ganesh looks so much funnier/cooler than the other gods around.

I'm in Delhi and nothing's happening. I guess we're just not very mutinous here :(

i'll still eat a ladoo in solidarity though!

Ganesh Chaturthi is a wonderful festival, and particularly well celebrated down South.

Its a shame that Bal Gangadhar used the festival both as a nationalistic movement, as well as to forment Hindu / Mulsim disunity. Things might have turned out for the better had Gokhale's brand of nationalism won out over Tilak's.

Very nice post, Anna, with lots of interesting themes, especially the combination - Mutiny + Food!

Ganesha is totally the People's God, just as you say. He is of course, also 'zoomorphic' (with the elephant trunk) from having been extra mutinous and enraging his father Shiva, losing his own head in the process but gaining the grafted elephant head.

He is also exceedingly fond of sweets in the mythology, and I remember a lot of Modaks on Ganesh Chaturthi!

It's not celebrated quite the same way elsewhere in India as it is in Maharashtra - where huge processions are taken out, especially in Bombay (Mumbai), with the 'idol' being immersed in the sea with a lot of celebratory enthusiasm, which often turns quite raucous, and competitive between neighborhoods too. Youtube has plenty of clips.

A very typical and reminiscent (Maharashtrian) Ganesh puja set-up, with the modaks on the plantain leaf. You don't eat them before he has symbolically eaten them - and here's an artist's conception of what that might look like!

Sigh. I went to the Ganesh Temple in Flushing this morning with my mother. The idol was covered in rock sugar (last year it was baby bananas), and was beautiful. My experience, however, was far from beautiful. There was, like, a real live bouncer.

There was, like, a real live bouncer.

That's sad. I guess it just tells you that the community has gotten big enough now that mega-events like this have the demographics, psychology, and crowd dynamics of 'back home'.

You said it, bro!

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

btw, i humbly suggest a post on the rama [real or imaginary] issue?

In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed

don't know why you chose to use the word purported. rama is a hindu god.

there is a difference between religious festivals commemorating a god and making economic and policy decisions based on these beliefs. i can totally understand the frustration of the asi, after being constantly hassled all these years by a sequence of messes, first babri masjid and now this. all that said, it was probably not the smartest thing to have filed an affidavit claiming that the concept of ram is just a myth. there might be other good technical and logical reasons not to support the sethusamudram project.

and all this for rama, who noble though he might have been in legend, always chose submissiveness over standing up for principle, be it going into exile, or standing up for his wife.

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

Yes, Anna! In the light of the scientific fact that cancer tumors contain dihydrogen monoxide, is it appropriate for children across the US to drink it everyday?

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

What are you gonna do, Anna. To hindus, you are not hindu enough. To christians, you are not christian enough.

As a followup, Anna, given that the Death Cap mushroom has been shown to cause severe liver poisoning, is it appropriate to talk about stir-fry recipes with portabellas and shiitakes from the same canon of mushrooms.

I also humbly request a post made of metal with a basketball hoop [with or without net] on it.

pingpong, how dare you equate ganesha to a portabella and rama to a death cap mushroom? rama is the truffle of the pantheon, and ganesha is certainly at least a morel. mmm, morels.

rama is the truffle of the pantheon, and ganesha is certainly at least a morel. mmm, morels.

My bad. Enjoy your morsels of morels. But beware of the false morels.

But beware of the false morels.

but thank goodness for the morel police who will keep me honest. morel of the story: don't truffle indian feathers.

always chose submissiveness over standing up for principle, be it going into exile, or standing up for his wife.

So he stood up for his wife but it wasn't on principle?

At least she wasn't stood up by him.

Ganesha on the other hand was ready to travel - he always carried his trunk with him. He once walked into a bar and the bartender asked him "Why the long face?".

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

Somebody trying to poison the thread even before the first 10 comments were made. Wow.

Anyway, this person obviously has a beef with political Hinduism of the VHP-type...which is a very valid concern for anyone....but to extend that antagonism to the cultural or non-political aspects of the religion, which are after all the dominant themes in the Indian psyche (for the majority), is stupid, or just hateful. That's like saying "Now that we know there was never a Ram, is it appropriate that Ram Mandirs should still be allowed to stand"? Such statements or intentions will only serve to antagonize a lot of non-political Hindus and make them rigid and defiant (which will translate into increased support for the VHP-types). How about a little respect for a culture? Many of the people celebrating may not literarlly believe in a lot of the stories that have been handed down, but participating in festivals like these can be a connection to their roots, their heritage, their family traditions, whatever...fulfill a psychological role. To others, the various stories lumped together as 'Hindu mythology' may represent simply great stories, with deeper themes and insights into various things (like human nature for example) packaged in simple ways that anyone can understand. To me, they are part of India's cultural heritage and they show the genius of the Indian people down the ages...much as Greek and Roman mythologies show the genius of those two societies back in antiquity. These epics and stories are also great literature. And these festivals add color to people's lives. Those aspects should be kept separate from the condemnation of the politicising and intolerance that mark organisations like the VHP and others.

My two cents.

So he stood up for his wife but it wasn't on principle?

not only didn't he stand up for his wife, he didn't doff his hat to her when she got in the flying palanquin either.

He once walked into a bar and the bartender asked him "Why the long face?".

did you hear about the one when ganesh walked into a bar? he went, "ouch!"

I never realised there was whole genre of Ganesh jokes. You learn something everyday.

I never realised there was whole genre of Ganesh jokes. You learn something everyday.

cf. this. s/guy/ganesh/g.

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

No one is forcing you to participate in the (according to you) inappropriate commemoration of "another mythological figure from the same canon." Me? If there are friends and well-wishers around to share sweets and yummy food, it's all appropriate. :)

Amitabh, #18, I heart you. Good wishes and respect to you, sir.

That's like saying "Now that we know there was never a Ram, is it appropriate that Ram Mandirs should still be allowed to stand"? Such statements or intentions will only serve to antagonize a lot of non-political Hindus and make them rigid and defiant (which will translate into increased support for the VHP-types)

I agree. Nicely said, Amitabh.

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

btw, i humbly suggest a post on the rama [real or imaginary] issue?

Wonderful example of erudite and learned intolerance, shows that education is far from being a sufficient condition for any kind of wisdom.

Thanks for the posting, Anna, brings back many memories of good times and family togetherness.

Amitabh @18: Word, brother!

Your reference to Greek and Roman mythologies is also totally apropos.

I also agree with dravidian lurker: An affidavit to say that Ram never existed is an order of magnitude crazier than claiming that the archipelago connecting Sri Lanka and India was built by him.

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

Anonymous troll. That's brave of you hiding behind a fake name and trying to stir things up.

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed, is it appropriate to commemorate another mythological figure from the same canon?

First, and foremost, whether Rama existed or not is moot to the thousands of years of mythology, and society, and culture (festivals, and everything included) based on it.

Either curisuos is being disingenuous or did not understand the crux of ASI brief to Supreme Court at all - The main point was that Adam's Bridge (between Sri Lanka and India) is most probably a geomorpohological feature rather than manmade. And, mythological texts alone cannot be used to prove the presence of events happened, and the existence of persons/ gods in it categorically. The court case was not about Rama's existence but should a canal be built.

Their brief is neither earth shattering, nor something new or revealing. This holds to all religions, and their texts, and their religious sites......be it Adam's bridge, Shroud of Turin, wagehera, wagerhera.

I wish they had worded it smartly......whether Suez Canal of India should be built is another question, and should Adam's bridge be left untouched, also whales, etc. is another issue.

I was trying to procrastinate the task of putting together tomorrow's Ganesh Chaturthi presentation for kiddies in our (Hindu) Sunday school, and decided to see what was up on SM, when lo and behold! My entire presentation at my fingertips :-)
This just goes to show that it pays to visit SM. Thanks Anna! May you get many modaks today!

Anna, In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India

It wasn't a study, it was a compilation of their ideas based on existing literature to the supreme court - essentially a brief on a canal case. Perhaps a quite sound one but very poorly worded.

The more I read about it, I think ASI directors who wrote the reports are dumb asses that they worded it so badly which could have been put in clear plain words rather than pulling in everything in Hinduism to it - just answer the existence of Adam's Bridge - like one (a scientific organization) would answer the existence of Grand Canyon, Red Sea, Dead Sea wrt to Christian faith, Old Testament - just the issue at hand - Culture Minister Ambika Soni claims that she had asked for corrections/ changes that those guys did not make. What can I say?

Recently, when Abhi wrote a thought-provoking post on Mother Theresa, early in the thread I expressed misgivings so inarticulately, my discomfort with the entire news story must have been painfully apparent. I'm not even a huge fan of MT, nor am I Catholic, for that matter, but I worried about the discussion becoming hostile to Christianity, which is a part of my life, and an important one at that. I was concerned that the entire "hot issue" would become proxy for people who wanted to mock the mythology of a man in the middle east 2,000 years ago and that ugliness would creep in; I don't know if it did, I couldn't bear to look.

Everyone has the right to their thoughts and obviously, should feel free to express them, that's only fair. But we should also, always remember that it is probably, almost always the case that whatever it is you think is an amusing news story or something to debate raucously...is a part of someone else's faith, core beliefs, identity. It is a situation which is ripe for pain, offense and anger. You could take this to ridiculous extremes, but you don't have to-- most of us were taught, by our parents, to tread carefully around religion, out of a respect which ought to be mutual.

Someone's mythology is someone else's messiah. I wish we would be so sensitive as to keep that in mind continually, not because it's self-serving or b/c I feel like perching above some high horse, but because it's the kind thing to do. Courtesy mandates that you not hurt someone or make them uncomfortable, that if anything you strive to achieve the opposite. It's the right thing to do.

Holidays are perhaps the only doors which "others" have to religions with which they are unfamiliar. There's the potential for a lot of beauty there, for joy which creates a deep, internal understanding which permeates how we think and treat each other. My memories of synagogue-hopping at Purim or celebrating Vaisakhi at the Maryland Gurudwara have made me extra fond of Jewish and Sikh culture. That's nothing novel, but it is powerful.

Now I want to know more about this holiday, specifically what sweets are involved, because I heard that

a) Ganapati loooooves sweets (which just enchants me, since I eat cake for breakfast and dessert after lunch and dinner!)
b) he's associated with my second favorite childhoold breakfast: kozhakottai! (I loved eating the excess filling, which was nothing more than freshly-ground coconut/thenga with an egregious amount of brown sugar)

:)

amen anna ;-)

Kozhakattai... Now I am hungry. Most pictures of ganapathi carry the sweet, like here (on the left hand bottom corner).

Now that I think about it, peda was the sweet of choice at the siddhi vinayak temple in bombay.

Also, ganapathi's name in tamil is pillaiyaar, stands for 'who is this kid' (pillai - kid, yaar - who). I don't remember the story but it was some rishi who did not know who the kid was.

And his elephant head was a transplant from the nearest living creature (again someone should remember the exact story, I do not).

I cross-posted my comment on my personal blog, HERstory, should anyone want to discuss any of what I wrote (or take me to task for not just eating cake for breakfast, but old skool, Safeway birthday cake, at that); that will keep further digressions away from this thread.

Let's get back on track about celebrating! :)

Also, ganapathi's name in tamil is pillaiyaar, stands for 'who is this kid' (pillai - kid, yaar - who). I don't remember the story but it was some rishi who did not know who the kid was.

And his elephant head was a transplant from the nearest living creature (again someone should remember the exact story, I do not).

awww, son can't f*#$# with Pillaiyaar! The story I was told went like this: Mumsie (parvati) had a hankering for a son that the earthbound, human version of procreation just couldn't satisfy. She thus crafted a child from sandalwood paste (with a human head--she apparently was not THAT cool), animated the paste sculpture and set him to guard the door while she took a luxurious bucket-and-empty-yogurt-container bath out back.

Fairly soon thereafter, Daddy (Siva) comes around (little paste-animated tyke doesn't know who he is--i feel tremendous empathy with deity here) and demands to know why his path leading to his wife is obstructed by an incredibly obstinate child.

As in many Hindu mythological stories, a fantastic and long-winded battle ensues with the eventual victor being Siva--who quite unceremoniously severs his son's head in the process (the time-out corner was not a known methodology then). After Parvati returns from her bath, she instructs the now contrite dad to source another head--which just happened to be an elephant. I can't quite remember how it was selected (anybody want to fill in?).

Even though I don't really pray anymore the, "obstacles, begone!" thought is still somewhat calming.

i thought #9 was being sarcastic, but maybe not. oh well. , well said. it's not within the asi's purview to determine whether Hindu Gods are real/not real. or even if that's what they feel, that's not a reason to automatically assume a structure can be demolished ( i would say the environmental concerns outweigh the religious ones). they should merely have stated their view that the "bridge" is not a man-made structure but built by nature. not that that excuses demolishing any non-man-made structure per se. whether some/all hindus/no hindus choose to believe that Rama was a historical figure/not so is none of their allegedly secular business in determining what to do about the bridge.

"Their brief is neither earth shattering, nor something new or revealing. This holds to all religions, and their texts, and their religious sites......be it Adam's bridge, Shroud of Turin, wagehera, wagerhera."
"The more I read about it, I think ASI directors who wrote the reports are dumb asses that they worded it so badly which could have been put in clear plain words rather than pulling in everything in Hinduism to it - just answer the existence of Adam's Bridge - like one (a scientific organization) would answer the existence of Grand Canyon, Red Sea, Dead Sea wrt to Christian faith, Old Testament - just the issue at hand - Culture Minister Ambika Soni claims that she had asked for corrections/ changes that those guys did not make. What can I say?"

do you honestly think they would have had the spine to make a similar announcement about the existence of any revered figure from another religion with such certitude and arrogance? they'd be quivering in their shoes. during the cartoon uproar and da vinci code uproar, the indian government went out of its way to avoid "hurting the religious sentiments" of those concerned. the pm went out of his way to lecture the danish leader. i wonder what indian asi officials and govt. officials would say if they went to say, bali or other places in indonesia or thailand where the Ramayana is revered and enacted? would they have the gall to tell those people that Rama doesn't really exist so don't treat as special any places there associated with him? as much as people are carping about the vhp and bjp's predictable response (although someone should tell them that hinduism isn't going to collapse because of what the asi says), what did they expect? that they would keep quiet and not make a fuss like any other group in india? the asi statement was highly and intentionally provocative, not because it undermines or tests the "faith" - a rather meaningless statement from a hindu viewpoint -- but about what KPS Gill calls Perversity of Secularism

According to the story I know, it was turmeric and saffron powder, but maybe sandalwood paste was used more often in the South? The kid was named Vinayak. After he was killed, Shiva told the gods to head north and chop off the head of the first living creature they came across, which happened to be an elephant. Damn, where was PETA? :D

Parvati also insisted that Vinayak be the leader of the ganas, hence the name Ganapati or Ganesha.

I have this irrational, obstinate desire for threads which either deal with a guest blogger saying Good-bye or religious holidays to not only stay on topic, but kind. It's not the space for criticism, of either a person/their posts...or issues related to a religion. :)

One of these days I have to write a post about ladoos-- I'm very confused by them and they're my favorite mithai. The ones I thought were Southie are apparently not...and the third kind remind me of sand. I love ladoos! This is important to me! WWGD? ;)

ganapathi's name in tamil is pillaiyaar

Yup. Hence the bad anecdote about "Pillayar kovil uppuma oosi pochu" being mistranslated as "Sunwho temple salt powder needle went". ["Pillayar temple upma got spoilt"].

And his elephant head was a transplant from the nearest living creature (again someone should remember the exact story, I do not).

Shiva intruded on Parvati when she was showering. She got annoyed with his lack of respect for her privacy and decided to build a bodyguard who would be loyal only to her, which she did from the chandanam (perfumed sandalwood paste) on her body. She made this fellow come to life and told the newly created Ganesha not to let anybody in. Surprise, surprise, he didn't let Shiva into her room. He then called his (male) buddies Vishnu and Brahma and all the Devas, but the little guy would not budge. At some point tempers flared, somebody threw a punch, and there was a full scale police action. There were heavy casualties among the Devas, nearly all of whom were unimportant characters wearing red shirts. Eventually one of the big guys stepped in and beheaded Ganesha. When Parvati learned of this, she gave Shiva the cold shoulder, colder than the one given by the miffed cannibal wife to her husband. She also gave the Devas quite a tongue lashing. (Some people say she created a bunch of women out of a Freudian nightmare who then ate up all the Devas). Anyway, Shiva and friends eventually got tired of the gratuitous lack of sex (or gratuitous violence) and decided to bring Ganesha back to life. Except that one of them asked "Dude? Where's the head?" [the guy who asked this later became the patron god of Quentin Tarantino movies]. So they set out in a random direction (north) and killed the first animal they saw (an elephant), whose head they brought back with them and fixed on the headless Ganesha. And that's how Ganesha got an elephant's head. He was then heard to complain that he could not get a date on Saturday night. I don't know if this is all genuine canonical mythology or made-up mythology. :D

he's associated with my second favorite childhoold breakfast: kozhakottai!

First question: what was the first?

As to what sweets are involved, "We got both kinds: fried *and* steamed!". But both are made sweet, with the pooranam (filling) made of the coconut-jaggery powder Anna mentioned.

In my family however, for the past few years we have usually made five or fewer that are sweet, and the rest we have filled with a non-sweet filling made of steamed, dried and pounded lentils (mostly toor dal) with a little red pepper powder. This is mainly so that people in my parents' generation can eat it without worries of spiking blood sugar levels. The nice thing I like about this is that it's flexible enough to accommodate special dietary needs.

I have this irrational, obstinate desire for threads which either deal with a guest blogger saying Good-bye or religious holidays to not only stay on topic, but kind. It's not the space for criticism, of either a person/their posts...or issues related to a religion. :)

The spell sticko topico as mastered by Hari Puttar usually does the trick. :D

sticko topico! ;)

In light of recent study completed by the Archaeological survey of India, which concluded that Rama the purported Hindu God never existed

No God's existence is provable or disprovable.

oops, sorry

re #34: i posted before reading that, so sorry for off-topic post (although in fairness, post #9 should be deleted then to deter off-topic posts:))

back to ladoos:)

One of these days I have to write a post about ladoos-- I'm very confused by them and they're my favorite mithai. The ones I thought were Southie are apparently not...and the third kind remind me of sand. I love ladoos! This is important to me! WWGD? ;)

??? There are different types of laddus? Yeah, wikipedia does say so. I only know the Tirupati type (dry) and the ones I find at Haldiram's that were soaked in syrup and are not strong enough to remain spheres. The Tirupati type had flattened non-spherical boondis but the whole was a sphere, while in the Haldiram version the individual boondis were perfect spheres but the whole was like an oblate ellipsoid under the weight and the interstices held a lot of sugar syrup. So far I haven't encountered any sandy laddus.

Haldiram version the individual boondis were perfect spheres but the whole was like an oblate ellipsoid under the weight and the interstices held a lot of sugar syrup.

But where were they on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram?

But where were they on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram?

:D Sorry for the technical description of laddu structure - got a little carried away!

I suspect that the two types can be achieved by varying the soaking time and the boondi-to-syrup ratio. I don't think the sugar-to-water ratio plays a big role.

(although in fairness, post #9 should be deleted then to deter off-topic posts:))

ITA, but when I woke up from my nap, there were already so many responses to it, it was difficult to undo the damage. I understand this issue is huge, just from the number of tips on the News Tab and I wanted to respect that (and those of you who feel so strongly). I tried to deter without deleting. ;)

I have seen three kinds of ladoos! And yes, one was "sandy". Yick.

I was told the "Parvati bathing, Shiva catching hell for decapitating her baby" story often when I was small but I didn't know some of this other information. I love the explanation behind "Pillaiyaar"! More of that, please. That was one sweet epiphany. :D

Other than laddoos and modaks, another big thing at Ganesh Chaturthi are pooran poli, which are flatbreads with a delicious sweet filling (pooran, or pooranam, as pingpong@40 mentions). I found a super recipe book for all kinds of Ganesh Chaturthi sweets here. Has recipes for nearly half-dozen different kinds of kozhukottai, plus pooran poli, laddoos, kheer, and modaks, everything!

word on the street is that tirupati ladoos have reduced in size in the past years. can somebody confirm? is there trouble in prasadise?

as for other species in the ladoo genus, there is at least rava ladoo, besan ladoo, maalaadoo (i don't know if that's another name for rava or besan ladoo) - i think these are the sand ladoos anna is talking about. personally, i think rava ladoo wins over boondi ladoo 8 days a week.

I was told the "Parvati bathing, Shiva catching hell for decapitating her baby" story often when I was small

So was I! It's great as a subtextual morality play, and makes kids think twice (or a hundred times) about challenging the pater familias :)

"I tried to deter without deleting. ;)"

actually, on second thought, that's probably best. i don't want to do down the slippery slope of asking for comments to be deleted as i usually think most of them - barring a few - should stand no matter what.

Here's a weird news item from The Hindu regarding Tirupati laddus:

[Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy] asked for a message to be sent to Tirumala-Tirupati Devasthanams Chairman B. Karunakar Reddy and Executive Officer K.V. Ramanachari, reinforcing the Government’s order that there could never be a compromise when it came to quality of Tirupati laddu. [link]

While I approve of his good taste, is this really a worthwhile issue for the government to ponder?

My favorite is boondi laddoo, though I also like besan laddoo and aata laddoo (also called pinni). Yum.
What's the sand laddoo that everyone is talking about?

And his elephant head was a transplant from the nearest living creature (again someone should remember the exact story, I do not).

Meanwhile Parvati was busy being faithful to her husband. Annoyed by constant intrusions she created a fat boy out of mud, and animated him with radioactive meteor rock in order to guard her purity.

Some seven years later Shiva felt like getting laid. He sends some devas out to bring Parvati to him immediately. The devas go in to pick up Parvati , but are confronted by Ganesh who is on guard duty while Parvati bathes herself. After many seconds of arguing with Ganesh the devas grow impatient and decide to use their powers to end this quickly.

Little do they know that Ganesh was animated from the same radioactive rocks that give them their powers. Ganesh deflects the attack with ease. Then proceeds to power up himself, and finishes off the deva minions with a energy blast.

Back at his lair Shiva senses a disturbance a big disturbance in the force. He and a team of devas fly down to confront Ganesh. Ganesh kills several of them with energy blasts before Shiva chops off Ganesh's head and passes it to Saturn who deflects it into the Sun.

Parvati senses that there might be something going on outside so she cuts short her beauty bath and goes outside to check. Angered by the death of Ganesh, Parvati says she is not in the mood. Shiva bemoans that he could bring Ganesh back to life if only they could find a head to fit him.

Shiva kills several of the poor performers on his team of devas only to find out that Ganesh's body is too fat to accept the transplanted heads. So he sends out the devas to find him someone who his fat enough to fit Ganesh's body. One of the devas has the brilliant idea of using an elephant head, told it to his supervisor who told it to Shiva and took all the credit for the idea.

maalaadoo (i don't know if that's another name for rava or besan ladoo) - i think these are the sand ladoos anna is talking about.

Dravidian Lurker - I think you may be right. I have once (long ago) had a sweet that was off-white, round, about 1.5 inches in diameter. I tried to bite it, and it underwent *catastrophic* structural failure - off-white semi-sweet powder now coated my hand, the front of my shirt and the floor. The cleanup job was not fun. Also it didn't taste very good. That may be the sand laddu.

By the way, what is the preferred spelling - ladoo or laddu (or laddoo or ladu)?

"While I approve of his good taste, is this really a worthwhile issue for the government to ponder?"

maybe govt. officials get a portion of their temple dues/payoffs in laddus. (is there a preferred spelling?)

While I approve of his good taste, is this really a worthwhile issue for the government to ponder?

this came up because outside every packet of tirupathi ladoos, there was usually the annotation ymmv. people assumed it was just the name of the chef, yeduguri masticateudu mmmmladoogaru venkatakrishulu, but only y s rajasekhara reddy knew it is a disclaimer from the days of netspeak-savvy high tech cm, chandrababu naidu.

maybe govt. officials get a portion of their temple dues/payoffs in laddus.

For all I know, that may be true.

A thought just struck me - would it be a popular move if the TTD organization made the laddu healthier? Given the increasing incidence of diabetes in India, and given that they wouldn't want to harm their devotees (who are also their customers), it would make sense. Mutineers, any ideas on how to make a healthier laddu? A baked lentil ball sprinkled with aspartame? It should still be eatable, not just edible.

By the way, what is the preferred spelling - ladoo or laddu (or laddoo or ladu)?

despite my playing fast and loose with the o's and the u's here, i prefer the phonetic "laddu".

I tried to bite it, and it underwent *catastrophic* structural failure - off-white semi-sweet powder now coated my hand, the front of my shirt and the floor. The cleanup job was not fun. Also it didn't taste very good. That may be the sand laddu.

that might be, but imagine how much more unhappy your teeth would have been if it had been a concrete laddu.

given that they wouldn't want to harm their devotees (who are also their customers)

oh i'm sure they are not hurting for repeat business. and, being completely cynical (and i am very sure this is not part of their calculation), sickness implies more propitiation of otherworldly entities implies more devotees implies more laddu sales. so there are competing pressures. i am sure somebody can write the lagrangian and come up with the optimal solution.

A baked lentil ball sprinkled with aspartame? It should still be eatable, not just edible.

"Aspartame has a bad rep. Jaggery maybe? Or Stevia? :)"

agave laddus? :) but then would Ganesh be the same without his pot belly?

He and his team of devas would train there for extended periods of time leaving periodically to perform acts of heroism using the powers they had gained from their training and exposure to radioactive meteorites.

Somebody's been watching too much Smallville :)

Since when did today's Sri Lanka become Lanka of the Ramayana? I always thought scholars thought that Lanka was somwhere South of the Vindhyas. What I mean is, if Sri Lanka was still called "Ceylon" before the name change, would people still consider it to be Lanka of the Ramayana?

but then would Ganesh be the same without his pot belly?

*We* would be better without ours! (Those of us so endowed anyway)

I'm not blaming temple food for health problems like obesity or diabetes, but this is a big opportunity for temples to show that they're health conscious, that they're capable of adapting and that they can still be relevant if they want to. It's not impossible - I know of temples that enforced the use of unpainted pottery idols of Ganesha and immersed them in a steel tank, as opposed to immersing plaster of paris idols in the sea, after it was pointed out by environmentalists that the paint on the plaster models was toxic with heavy metals and that the plaster itself hung around for a long time, changing the pH of the water. Making the prasadam low-fat and low-sugar is surely not impossible. This can be done both at the temple level and at the individual level.

Of course, if Dravidian Lurker is correct in #62, this is irrelevant for the temple.

*We* would be better without ours! (Those of us so endowed anyway)

dont knock potbellies. also, "Pot bellies make a man look either oafish, or like a gorilla. But on a woman, a pot belly is very sexy. The rest of you is normal. Normal face, normal legs, normal hips, normal ass, but with a big, perfectly round pot belly."

mind, the g-man is quite athletic too. if mere mortals like ranatunga could, why not ganesha?

"Aspartame has a bad rep. Jaggery maybe? Or Stevia? :)" agave laddus? :) but then would Ganesh be the same without his pot belly?

Incidentally, one of the many names of Ganesh is lambodar (literally big belly).

"We* would be better without ours! (Those of us so endowed anyway)"

the ganesha comment was a joke - although i do think he looks better with a pot belly than without - i've seen both. a Ganesha minus his pot belly is like a thin Obelix - not the same. but i agree that, as with the movement towards environmentally-friendly dyes, materials etc., nothing wrong with temples offering healthier versions of their prasadam.

Nice post Anna, mmm....ladoos and kozhakottai (I only ate the filling too)...*drool

I have to say to all my Iyengars that Ganesh/Ganpathi/Vinayaka is probably my favorite just because he does have that universal appeal in what he symbolizes.

Seeing Ganesh Chaturti in Maharashtra (Bombay especially) is quite the experience has some commenters have said. The tours of the different neighborhood's statues is an awesome sight. And of course, the kalkande (rock candy) and ladoo and jalebi and peda and ...*drool...that you get at the sites are always a plus! I think my little cousins walk around just for that:P

"if mere mortals like ranatunga could, why not ganesha?"

what about ramesh powar:) not quite athletic, but he's proving to be handy.

ganapathi's name in tamil is pillaiyaar

My Thatha has said this comes from asking "yaar ode pillai?" (whose son is this?)--in context of the story some of us have heard our whole lives.

Anyone know if this is concrete? I mean it always made sense to me...

I know of temples that enforced the use of unpainted pottery idols of Ganesha and immersed them in a steel tank, as opposed to immersing plaster of paris idols in the sea, after it was pointed out by environmentalists that the paint on the plaster models was toxic with heavy metals and that the plaster itself hung around for a long time

Coincidentally, I was also thinking about the environmental impact of all the statues (Ganesh and Durga) that are immersed in the sea/water.

pingpong, would love to read more about this!! Would you by any chance remember the source of this information of statues going green? Tx.

i think pillaiyaar comes from the same decapitation story narrated earlier when a c*** blocked shiva asks parvati, "who dat?" in a related note, does somebody know the stories behind pillaiyar kuttu and thopikkaranam?

"Ganesh Chaturdhi is also nice because in general, Lord Ganesh looks so much funnier/cooler than the other gods around."

yes!!!!

this is my fav post anna j! ladoos all around!!!

but more so, peace and love to all.

Amit@75:

Here's a story from The Hindu: link.
And a different take from the BBC: link.

I find that both these links (and some more) are also in the Wiki article which also has a section on the environmental impact: link.

I put some Bermuda grass that my mother sent me in front of my Ganesh statue this morning!
Happy Ganesha festival, woot woot!

word on the street is that tirupati ladoos have reduced in size in the past years. can somebody confirm? is there trouble in prasadise?

Last year, just around this time, I was there and yes. The free ladoo size has gone down from the last time I had visited (think 2000).

Never had the time to go for the paid ladoo, someone else needs to fill in that info.

And people thanks for the whole 'how he got his head' story. :)

pingpong, thanks!
Yes, the Hindu article was very interesting, and I do think that in this instance, education and working with everyone involved will bring about the desired results. Now I'll have to do some research on whether the "green" statues are being adopted elsewhere too. Wow!!

I have to say to all my Iyengars that Ganesh/Ganpathi/Vinayaka is probably my favorite just because he does have that universal appeal in what he symbolizes.

Funny because my Iyengar friend took an "oath" that his sins would be "taken care of" if he promised to pay only to vishnu. And as fate would have it, his girl friend at that time (now his wife) LOVED vinayaka. Still not sure on how he handled that.

my Iyengar friend took an "oath" that his sins would be "taken care of" if he promised to pay only to vishnu. And as fate would have it, his girl friend at that time (now his wife) LOVED vinayaka. Still not sure on how he handled that.

That obstacle probably cleared itself. :D

I hadn't heard of people in Hinduism *promising* to pray to only one god before this. Is it common?

I hadn't heard of people in Hinduism *promising* to pray to only one god before this. Is it common?

Among my immediate family and relatives, not that I know of. Though everyone had their own favorite god. My grandma loved Ram, my mom is more of a Krishna fan, and an uncle of mine is a big Hanuman devotee. But in all the home temples, there are idols and/or pictures of many gods.

my Iyengar friend took an "oath" that his sins would be "taken care of" if he promised to pay only to vishnu.

samashrayanam, i think.

mmm I love Moduk (which is kozhakottai in marathi, i think). And puran poli. Thanks for the recipes, chachaji, but they are far to complicated for my culinary abilities. I'm having visions of Moduk goo all over the cutting board and counters.

I may join the Marathi festivities in Edison, NJ where the 'most convenient body of water' to float Ganesha in is the neighbor's swimming pool! Ugh, then again that probably means video tapes of 7-year-old me in a fluffy pink dress danceing on stage will be pulled out (there's a 10 day day and night stage show).

Happy Ganesh Chaturti, all.
Ganapati Bappa Morya, Pudhchya varshi lavkar ya! (come quickly next year)

In many streets in Tamil Nadu, if a house faces onto another street/ road at a T-junction one will find a small statue of pillaiyar placed at a strategic location (normally embedded into the wall). On asking around, I was told the following story.

Pillaiyar wanted a woman like his mother Parvathi. As a result of his elephant head his dateability was pretty low. Further, his standards were next to impossible coz Parvati was the quintessential yummy mummy / super mom all rolled into one. He was advised to hang out at strategic locations like a three way junction to meet a potential wife. He still looking for the perfect woman. Hence, the statue in front a house at a T-junction. I think many single women pray to Pillaiyar to help them find a good husband.

Feel free to correct the parable.

No God's existence is provable or disprovable.

The burden of proof for proving a God's existence is on the person who makes such an assertion.

No God's existence is provable or disprovable.

The burden of proof for proving a God's existence is on the person who makes such an assertion.

i'm going to nip this one in the bud, guys--asserting the existence of something/person like God is an unfalsifiable proposition, useless as a hypothesis for any experiment as there exists no way to definitively prove this assertion wrong.

enough said.

I went to the Ganesh Temple in Flushing this morning with my mother. The idol was covered in rock sugar (last year it was baby bananas), and was beautiful

melbourne desi @ 77 - i was told that it's to ward off bad luck that have house at a t-junction is bad for vaastu, so that's one of the first things people put in when they build/move into a new house. i did notice an excessive amount of them in madras the last time i was there, and when i asked my uncle, this is what he told me...

ROFL.. on the stories about "Pillaiyar". I didn't know that before..

Well.. when the "vinayaka idol" drank milk I was in college and there was a joke circulating that girls stopped wearing vinayaka chains now that vinayaka started drinking milk..

Anyhow I have fun memories of Vinayakar chathurthi involving myself with friends in the local pillaiyar temple festivities.

I went to the Ganesh Temple in Flushing this morning with my mother. The idol was covered in rock sugar (last year it was baby bananas), and was beautiful

tamasha, that temple has different decorations for each of the ten days leading up to ganesh chaturthi. i went on thursday - they had a haldi decoration, which was really nice. though each one i've seen over the years has been nothing more than spectacular - they really do a geat job for this festival, as i guess they should...

agreed, what i could see of it was beautiful. (shiny!) so so crowded though. everyone got aggravated and it wasn't very holy.

but yeah, ganesh is awesome. i remember being amazed by him 'drinking' up the milk he was offered when i was little.

enough said.

Thank you. Not the time, not the thread. I thought I made that clear

::

Amita: mmm I love Moduk (which is kozhakottai in marathi, i think).

me:he's associated with my second favorite childhoold breakfast: kozhakottai!

pingpong: First question: what was the first?

Idiyappam. :) With sugar and coconut, nothing more. Sorry I missed the question earlier!

Idiyappam. :)

Ah yes, idi-yappam, the thunder cake. :) I could eat them all day with kurma or with coconut milk.

We really need a video for assorted Indian breakfast food in the spirit of the notorious Pancakes video.

Idiyappam. :) With sugar and coconut, nothing more. Sorry I missed the question earlier!

chakarai sacrilege!!! i'll try to not knock it before I try it, but even the eating of banana with idiappam seems somehow wrong. My constant food-porn wet dream is the softest of just-steamed idiappam, the just-right sodhi and veggie sambol...is that still acceptable at brekkers?

Idiyappam. :) With sugar and coconut, nothing more. Sorry I missed the question earlier!

s that a sri lankan speciality? i bought it at a health store run by sri lankan tamils, so i couldn't figure out whether the red rice is attributed to the health or sri lankan aspects of the store...

I dunno if it's healthier, but amma says that it is easier to not screw up the batter if you use the red maa. Usually a family gathering necessitates red idiappam while a dinner for 2-4 points to the white variety.

Thanks for the recipes, chachaji, but they are far to complicated for my culinary abilities. I'm having visions of Moduk goo all over the cutting board and counters.

You're welcome. The easiest thing by far to make (and in quantity) is the 'panchakajjaya' (p.11) - if you have the beaten rice (poha) to begin with. And modak filling can be quite dry, as I remember, need not be gooey. Enjoy.

Sheera (p.20) is the next easiest. Everything else, I agree, is a project.

Hari (#3):

Its a shame that Bal Gangadhar used the festival both as a nationalistic movement, as well as to forment Hindu / Mulsim disunity.

Almost a century later, the VHP is using Ganesh Chaturthi in much the same way in Tamil Nadu. I wrote about it here.

So Amitabh, while I agree very much with your sentiments (#18) and think that cursious's comment (#9) was just silly, this particular festival has already been politicized in Tamil Nadu (violently, at times).

Anna, so you like kozhukkattai? You go moLey!!

PiLLaiyaar is more like Who you dude?! Ganesh as the remover of obstacles is the first one to be pleased before any puja or project. He is also very easy to please and it takes next to nothing to conduct a Ganesh Puja. In Tamizh Naadu that means errukkampoo, a nondescript xerophyte that grows all over the place, a few blades of grass, a few pebbles, some nel pori, a banana, with a murti made of unbaked clay. When we were children at home, Ganesh Puja aka PiLLaiyaar Chaturti meant we each got a small clay murti with a tiny umbrella and a 5 paisa coin to be placed on PiLLayar's pot belly. And we got to do the visarjan in the well in the backyard. There are some very grand PiLLaiyaar Kovils in the South. There is the Auto Vinayaka gudi on Kasturba Road, Bangalore, which has been around for decades, and is the favorite of many a first time care/auto/two-wheeler buyer. There is the Kadala Neendina PiLLaiyaar Kovil in Pondicherry, and many others.

There is a PiLLaiyaar sannadhi on the way up the hill to Tirumala. It is the done thing to stop by on one's way up the hill to PiLLaiyaar's uncle's place. Similarly in Pittsburgh at the SV Temple, within the mandir, as you walk up the steps on the first landing before you turn right and up, there is the Ganesh sannadhi.

The Tirupati laddoo is exquisite but very dear and keeps shrinking every year. It's made with jaggery, all sorts of spices, kalkandu, and dry fruits. A few morsels are enough, it's the taste one never forgets.

Motichoor laddoos are the way to go - boondis soaked in sugar syrup and then amalgamated into a mass for easier consumption - yum...
Never had the Tirupati laddoo but have had to endure a few sand laddoos

mmm laddu. once (like, YEARS ago) someone gave us a box of white, powdery laddus that i still dream about. according to my mother, they are rava laddus. i've never been able to find them anywhere in the U.S. so i suggested to my mother that we visit tirupati sometime soon, they're that exquisite.

Just for people's culinary ed(u)(ifi)cation, wanted to mention that - 'Sheera' @101 is the same thing Punjabis (and others) know as Sooji ka Halwa. :)

Do people in India make Tamarind Balls, (fresh Tamarind paste and raw sugar rolled into a ball) or maybe there is another name for it ?

I have to say to all my Iyengars that Ganesh/Ganpathi/Vinayaka is probably my favorite just because he does have that universal appeal in what he symbolizes.

Ganesh is my favorite God and I have a special relationship with him- which causes some minor raised eyebrows on the Iyengar side of the family.I have a collection of around 30 Ganeshas made of different materials that I have been collecting for more than 20 years.Everyone who knows me knows that the best gift for Runa is a Ganapati - the smaller the better! I have them in in glass, metals, stone ,ceramic, marble,semi precious stones,plastic and one in cloth!

We went to the Mandir today and I prayed for peace and health to my favorite Ganapati Bappa.I wish I could be in Mumbai now and visit the Siddhivinayak mandir.I will never forget standing outside the Mandir at 4:30 am on Tuesdays and singing Aarti with the others waiting to get in! Siddhivinayak prasad is Modak shaped pedha which I prefer to laddus .Along with boondi, besan, rawa did we cover motichoor laddus? And Maharahstrians will know of dinkachi laddu - served to nursing moms...

me:he's associated with my second favorite childhoold breakfast: kozhakottai!
pingpong: First question: what was the first?
Idiyappam. :) With sugar and coconut, nothing more. Sorry I missed the question earlier!

So is Neyyappam now at #3, Anna? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

I was trying to be funny/cynical in #9, Brothers and Sisters. Please forgive.

My [too subtle and well meaning] comment was for Anna, who in a previous post [Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu AKA Mother Teresa vs. Jesus Christ AKA Son of God] had expressed displeasure with the fact that non-Christians were discussing matters Christ.

"Do people in India make Tamarind Balls, (fresh Tamarind paste and raw sugar rolled into a ball) or maybe there is another name for it ?"

i've bought some in an indian store in the u.s. - but they were made in thailand. but the best are west indian ones. can't remember buying any in india but made them at home.

Do people in India make Tamarind Balls?

in my best impression of 'chef' from south park. "suck on my big puli balls...put em in your mouth and suck em!"

Chachaji: So is Neyyappam now at #3, Anna? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Neyyappam was never for breakfast at my house. :) It's a snack! :D I've been on an Achappam kick, lately.

Rajesh: "Do people in India make Tamarind Balls, (fresh Tamarind paste and raw sugar rolled into a ball) or maybe there is another name for it ?"

I thought those were Mexican; they are almost always in hispanic grocery stores.

::

I don't have a problem with anyone, of any faith, getting in to the nitty gritty of Xtianity-- if they know their stuff. I've often thanked Razib for his encyclopedic knowledge of the Orthodox church and he's not Christian. He's not anything. I was concerned about people who may not know as much, discussing it-- for example, I've read the Gita, but by no means do I feel like I could speak authoritatively about Hinduism.

One religious studies class in college five years ago doth not an expert make. Anyway, I don't care to get in to it with "curisous" (or anyone else-- this is a sweet, celebratory thread!), I just wanted to clarify that rather important point. The way it was phrased, made me seem intolerant: "displeasure with the fact that non-Christians were discussing matters Christ". Etc.

#107 Rajesh Harricharan
Do people in India make Tamarind Balls, (fresh Tamarind paste and raw sugar rolled into a ball) or maybe there is another name for it ?

--> I didnt know we(group:Indian, subgroup: tamilian) had it till my dad let me know of its use. He even called it some