Dude Abhi,

In last few days, the Indian media has been over it.

Gorkhas been traditionally soldiers/ gaurds, and most of them in India live in Darjeeling/ Sikkim. Often, they hold dual passports, or are lot of them are Indian citizens only. Some of them have lived in Darjeeling, Sikkim for centuries.

So the DJ used it as "slur" of them only being chwokidhars (night watchman).

BTW, It is not South Indians for fish, it is the Bangalis.

Shock jocks on radio are a new phenomena in India. They will learn their lessons.

stereotypes and racist slurs against the "Gorkha" community is very commonplace in North India and even as far as Mumbai. It is sickening. Prashant Tamang could have very well from Garhwal or nearby area in HP or North eastern WB state of India.

There is more to it......the new Indian Idol winner, Nepali in origin defeated a Bengali from the same region - around Darjeeling.

The shock jock was also playing on old tensions between Nepali origin and Bengali origin Indians in that region.

On CNN-IBN network in India, Javed Akhtar (famous lyricist, husband of Shabana Azmi and Judge on Indian Idol) said in his usual eloquence that this slur was insulting to all Indians.

The sterotype typical here is of a 'Gurkha' gaurding the neighborhood. Nepalis who had formerly sereved in an Indian Army 'Gurkha' regiment often went into the private security business after retirement, and formed the neighborhood watch team. Since they built up a good reputation in this role several other nepalis went into this role, to the extent that 'Gurkha' or Nepali has become synonymous with nieghborhood security personnel. The typical Gurkha is not paid much for his services so, although he is respected a bit, he is rather low down in the social pecking order.

The RJ's statement would be a bit like an american saying, if patels start becoming lawyers, who will run the motels.

But a lot of Patels are now becoming lawyers and they still run the motels. Its all about saving money so you can do what you want :)

Making 'derogatory,sarcastic & ethnic/regional' statements is not new & is widely accepted as part of 'jocular conversation' between friends. Most Indians take these things in their stride & have a good laugh about it - if not, for all the enactment of Sardarji jokes/stereotypes, Tamil accents, Gujju cheapness,Bihari anarchism, UP Bhaiyyagiri,Bong snobbishness, Marathi lividness etc India would be a boiling cauldron.

I have had friends from every state in India while doing my engineering - where we lived & breathed these things. Never had we any issues nor took it personally. In fact - it not only made for a lively conversation with brilliant repartee - but also was informative in several ways.

Bongs as they are known for their un-nerving snobbishness - need to take a chill pill.

As they say it - "Easy Le"

And "Shalaam Shaab".

Sterotype jokes in India are not a big deal in India because:
1) Every community becomes a butt of a joke at some time or the other
2) Most Indians accept diversity in their daily lives much more than the typical American (which one good side effect of the fact that Indians usually do not respect private boundries)
3) The jokes do not act as a subtext for something more sinister
4) Political Correctness has not infected indian society to the extent it has infected US society

the RJ probably deserves to be let-off after a rap on the knuckles

Although I am not a Nepali/Gurkha, I personally think the comment made by the RJ was no more offensive than what stand up comedians like Russell Peters or Jerry Seinfeld regularly dish out to sold-out audiences. I really don't understand what the difference is in the 2 scenarios. Are Indians more touchy ? Does the particular comment touch a raw nerve ?

The RJ's statement would be a bit like an american saying, if patels start becoming lawyers, who will run the motels.

I agree with DizzyDesi's overall comment - but I thought the US analogy to what the RJ said could be sharpened. I thought it was more like saying "If Mexicans start winning on American Idol, we'll need to start cleaning our own pools, changing our own sheets, and doing our own lawnmowing."

Nepal is a neighboring country, like Mexico, but a very large number of Nepalese work in India (like Mexicans in the US) but sensibly, India does not restrict their entry/exit - Nepalese have some de jure rights to enter India freely (unlike the case for Mexicans in the US).

I think Gorkhas are extraordinary soldiers, watchmen and security guards, but Indians (both in India and the US) need to stop seeing all Nepalese (not all of whom are Gorkhas) in terms of these stereotypical occupations. Lots of Nepalese are doctors, lawyers, scientists, professors, etc, including in North America. This also applies to Bangladeshis, who are also often seen in terms of unflattering stereotypes.

In my comment @10, I was agreeing with DizzyDesi @5, not @8.

I actually think stereotypes can do a lot of psychological harm, and in India, people need to both become aware they exist, and to be really careful when they use them in a comedic context. I don't know the ethnicity of the RJ, but if he was, say, Bengali, it could come off sounding much worse than it would if he were Tamilian. And if he were Nepali himself, then it might not have been offensive at all, or he would have said it in such a way as to acknowledge the obvious without sounding insulting.

"If Mexicans start winning on American Idol, we'll need to start cleaning our own pools, changing our own sheets, and doing our own lawnmowing."

there would be protests and calls for people to be fired. but i doubt 60 people would get injured in riots. insults are bad, but this rioting due because of hurt feelings is pretty atrocious too. but hey, i guess that's just india (or the muslim world, or probably china, fill-in-the-blank).

Nepal is a neighboring country, like Mexico, but a very large number of Nepalese work in India (like Mexicans in the US) but sensibly, India does not restrict their entry/exit - Nepalese have some de jure rights to enter India freely (unlike the case for Mexicans in the US).

mexico has 1/3 the population of the USA. nepal has less than 1/33 the population of india.

"Will he dare to poke joke on a Sikh’s mile of fabric as a nappy? Or Mahatma Gandhi as gas station attendant or gay?"

Duh ..

Making fun of a Sikh's turban is as Indian as making fun of a Tambram's vegeteraianism.

As for Gandhi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhi_joke

Here is one from the Times of India newspaper that I remember:
What is the height of patriotism?
Mahatma Gandhi recommending Khadi condoms

mexico has 1/3 the population of the USA. nepal has less than 1/33 the population of india.

Sure. All analogies are imperfect. But both Nepalese in India and Mexicans in the US are 'otherizable', on account of their ethnicity and on account of the widespread perception (that builds on an economic reality) of their being in stereotypical occupations, with similar socio-economic dynamics.

Of course I regret the violence that took place, though I don't know the details of how exactly people were injured - whether it was due to police crowd control tactics gone awry or people just going crazy on each other. That has a bearing on how it is perceived. And as to the comment that 'this is just India' - I agree, it is. That's why freedom of media is not a license to shoot your mouth off. Anywhere.

fan favourite prashant's win (like fan favourite qazi from kashmir earlier, even though he wasn't the best) over the judge favourite amit paul (and i think he was the better singer) was bound to upset people. and the fact that he doesn't look like the stereotypical "mainstream" indian in some narrow-minded people's eyes only adds to this and doesn't make the ignorant dj's comments all that surprising. the fac that's he nepali is not the main point. manisha koirala is nepali, but looks more like the indian that such people are more willing to accept - she had no problems in bollywood. it's prashant's features that elicit such bigotry.

i think prashant's win is important because it goes some way towards showing people that indian stars and indians come in all sorts of looks (beyond the more recognizable danny dengzopa from the movies and bhaichung bhutia from football). the latest miss india contest also had some really lovely northeastern ladies competing, and i think it's only a matter of time before one of them wins on merit. it was also good to see two northeastern states represented in the final. on the other hand, although shows like indian idol unite people from all over the country, the contestants are still forced to sing mostly in hindi to be accepted or have a chance of winning. so in that respect it doesn't really serve india's diversity that well and is really not "indian" idol. just as the indian international film awards are really the bollywood international film awards. in the future it would be nice to see someone like prashant, who speaks five languages, being able to win by singing in another language other than hindi.

should read: "the fact that he's nepali...."

A history of good-will and racism/prejudice co-exists between the Bangalis and Nepalis in West Bengal. It's terrible that the words of one led to the deaths of sixty, and on the radio, an incident that I also recall taking place in Rwanda during the early 1990s when people were also incited to ethnic violence through various propagandistic media. I cautiously predict that such tensions may exist but will not explode into full-fledged genocide. Beyond the classism of many Nepalis versus Bangalis in West Bengal, there's also an ugly aspect of lookism: i.e., Nepalis "look" more Mongoloid and are sometimes looked down upon by the Bangalis (in spite of the fact that many genetic similarities link these groups together). I haven't the hard statistics to back my last statement, though I know from personal experience the snobbery that comes from having a "non-Mongol" look, and it's only one of the many aspects of racist phenomena continuing to unite and disengage the sub-continent.

It's terrible that the words of one led to the deaths of sixty

FYI: No one has died yet.

It is just general arson

amalie, 60 people were injured. not killed. as for the mongol vs. non-mongol thing, that is interesting because i have read historical material where bengali bhadrolok played up their mongolian tendencies when japan beat russia during the russo-japanese war ;-) also, my family is from eastern, eastern, bengal. and many of us look vaguely burmese. one of my cousins has a mother who looks very (my aunt-in-law) east asian, and her maternal uncle's nickname is "jackie chan" ;-) but it seems that racial prejudice is always based on skin color and people don't comment on the mongolian appearance of some much. perhaps it is different in west bengal.

there would be protests and calls for people to be fired. but i doubt 60 people would get injured in riots. insults are bad, but this rioting due because of hurt feelings is pretty atrocious too.

Just to clarify, the Prashant supporters weren't rioting at first. The rioting happened when some locals perceived that the supporters were blocking access to a hospital. The two groups then clashed.

Just to clarify, the Prashant supporters weren't rioting at first. The rioting happened when some locals perceived that the supporters were blocking access to a hospital. The two groups then clashed.

granted. this is as ridiculous as hindus and muslims rioting over something jerry falwell said about muslims in the USA....

btw, here's a chart showing indian american substructure by ethnicity

http://genetics.plosjournals.org/archive/1553-7404/2/12/figure/10.1371_journal.pgen.0020215.g002-L.jpg

shows bengalis, and especially assamese, are more similar to 'mongolian' peoples than other indians (though not that similar).

Indian Idol this season was interesting because there were quite a few contestants who were not 'mainstream' Indians...there was Meiyang Chang (discussed on SM a few months ago) who is ethnically Chinese (but of a family that has been in India for a few generations), then there was this dude Prashant we're talking about right now...and also, the guy Amit Paul who was in the Final against Prashant, was also a Khasi by ethnicity, which is another group based in the NorthEast, who have a 'mongolian' look too to an extent. And all three made into the final few episodes...so Indian is maturing and becoming more accepting of people who look different, but clearly the process is not complete since incidents like this idiot RJ still happen. And there needs to be a lot more PCness, sensitivity, and awareness to what people say.

so Indian is maturing

I meant INDIA is maturing...

Thanks for the corrections, Kush and Razib. Re #19, I grew up disliking my rather Roman profile, a distinct contrast to many of the people I'd known who were native to the region I'm from (western Bengal and Bihar). My nose, to my dismay, was considered an advantage by my rather hapless family members in India, though. The "Mongol" look, at least from where my ancestors had come from, was usually held in disdain as being "un"-aristocratic, local, lower-class perhaps. It's a testament to the specificity of culture and region that such prejudice was passable without much conflict from me.

Racism can be based on many factors, as the Bushmen of Southern Africa attest to in their narratives when they encounter other blacks and "coloureds." A good example of the ways racism can extend to facial features and physiognomy can be found in Zoe Wicomb's novel David's Story.

Amitabh, interesting comments. Though I applaud the greater inclusiveness of 'Indian Idol' if it is as you describe it, I find the very fact that a program of that name exists in India, directly copying the format, conceit, and subtext of the American equivalent - somewhat disturbing, since it appears to point to a certain slavishness of mindset, a disconcerting lack of originality, and the subtextual creep of uniformity in content and esthetic standards - the idea appears to be that everything is translatable across cultures if it were not for language and a token acknowledgement of nationality. And worse yet, an apparently identical program seemed to have been running on Nepalese TV at the same time as Indian Idol, until Prashant Tamang began doing well on Indian Idol.

If proliferation of media channels is leading to a convergence of content, style, conceit, subtext and format in such ways, then I have some reservations about it all. Normally I would expect you to make these or similar points! :)

there would be protests and calls for people to be fired. but i doubt 60 people would get injured in riots. insults are bad, but this rioting due because of hurt feelings is pretty atrocious too. but hey, i guess that's just india (or the muslim world, or probably china, fill-in-the-blank).

On any given single day there are hundreds of protests going on in Indian towns and cities, most of them are peaceful (like the ones on Ram Setu controversy). But some get out of control and lead to violence. I dont think, any other country has as many protests as India does (European countries do organise a lot of protests too, but certainly not the US of A)
We Indians like to scream and protest a lot, so dont be jealous ;)

chachaji, there are idols all of the place. the american version was copied from british 'pop idol.'

Thanks for the corrections, Kush and Razib. Re #19, I grew up disliking my rather Roman profile, a distinct contrast to many of the people I'd known who were native to the region I'm from (western Bengal and Bihar). My nose, to my dismay, was considered an advantage by my rather hapless family members in India, though. The "Mongol" look, at least from where my ancestors had come from, was usually held in disdain as being "un"-aristocratic, local, lower-class perhaps. It's a testament to the specificity of culture and region that such prejudice was passable without much conflict from me.

amelie, yeah, some other people have said bengalis idealize the aquiline sharp features and stuff. not much of an issue in my family, they fun of me for my big nose, and it ain't that big (at least compared to my gf's german american fam).

All the Northeastern guys could sing too! That prevents a comparison with the racist flack Sanjaya received here since he was clearly not as good as some others in the pack.

Racism in india is much more overt than in Western countries. Many things that woudl be considered outright politically incorrect here are acceptable, nay the norm, there. Sticking with Indian Idol, the Chinese-Indian contestant, Meiyang Chang was called "Chingu Mingu" throughout the show. Isn't that racist ? And don't tell me that it was there way of endearment; his entire persona was based on his race -- and the fact that he was perhaps the best singer on the show didn't take him to the end.

To me, this comment, while perhaps in bad taste, was only a step further than the open racism pervasive in Indian society.

Don Imus got condemned in the US for his comments about the black female basketball players; if he were in India, they'd be riots in the streets and effigies burnt. Too many unemployed people, too many uneducated people.

cause: idiot rj in delhi insults person.
result: life of unrelated person in siliguri who needs urgent medical care is put at risk.

yay, the world is flat!

also, never heard the south indian-fish stereotype before. isn't the stereotype that "madrasis" are vegetarian (curd rice eaters :-)? Mmm, got to get me some curd rice.

chachaji, there are idols all of the place. the american version was copied from british 'pop idol.'

Right, and 'Who wants to be a millionaire?' might have a British equivalent too. India certainly has 'Kaun Banega Karodpati (or is it Crorepati?)'. But that makes the point. Where's the originality? I almost fell of my chair when I saw that there was a program on IBN Live called 'Face the Nation'.

What is cultural colonialism anyway, and how would we recognize it when it did happen? This shock jock RJ might not have said the things he did if he were more in tune with Indian realities and sensibilities.

Right, and 'Who wants to be a millionaire?' might have a British equivalent too.

you're right, that's where it started! not the USA.

Amitabh, interesting comments. Though I applaud the greater inclusiveness of 'Indian Idol' if it is as you describe it, I find the very fact that a program of that name exists in India, directly copying the format, conceit, and subtext of the American equivalent - somewhat disturbing, since it appears to point to a certain slavishness of mindset, a disconcerting lack of originality, and the subtextual creep of uniformity in content and esthetic standards - the idea appears to be that everything is translatable across cultures if it were not for language and a token acknowledgement of nationality. And worse yet, an apparently identical program seemed to have been running on Nepalese TV at the same time as Indian Idol, until Prashant Tamang began doing well on Indian Idol.

Chachaji, you are joking right?
Almost every country in the world has their own Idol version, its like McDonalds of reality TV. British guys who designed this program are franchising it to every country.
Just because Americans are taking up yoga, that doesnt make them slavish or unoriginal.

Actually, indianoguy, I didn't know it was being directly franchised. Thanks for mentioning that.

But it is somewhat worse, and raises all the same worries - if it was being franchised versus just being unoriginally reproduced ('copied').

As to whether Americans taking up yoga are slavish or unoriginal, I'd say it depends on the details, and it can be both.

That's all from me here on this. No more threadjack, other work beckons!

If proliferation of media channels is leading to a convergence of content, style, conceit, subtext and format in such ways, then I have some reservations about it all. Normally I would expect you to make these or similar points! :)

Chachaji, you're right...the main reason I watch Indian Idol and similar shows (until the final few episodes, when I'm genuinely interested to see who wins) is because of the window they provide into urban, middle-class India. And more specifically, the cultural context that this is all taking place in. It's very interesting to see the differences in attitude and behavior as compared with American Idol for example.

There is no doubt that these shows serve to homogenize the middle-class, and present a uniformity that gets defined as "Indian", while placing other cultural streams and identities more and more on the fringe. While it is always nice to see people speaking Hindi as opposed to English, it is also a fact that the Bengali and South Indian contestants have to speak in Hindi and sing in Hindi in order to do well on these shows. Bengalis in particular are always very well-represented (perhaps because of the training and musical education so many of them receive) and you can literally observe their Hindi getting better as the season progresses.

I have made this point before but maybe it bears repeating...the average teen-aged urban, English-medium educated middle-class person today, has more in common with someone from a similar demographic all the way across the country, than he does with a rural person (perhaps even from his same caste and larger lineage) living in his own district.

There is no doubt that through these shows, a certain indoctrination into narrowly-defined, sheep-like thought patterns gets reinforced. I don't know what more to say about this...it's a reality.

so, which is better, the "copied" indian idol, or the "original" saas bhi kabhi bahu thi which perpetuates age-old tropes of familial conflict?

so, which is better, the "copied" indian idol, or the "original" saas bhi kabhi bahu thi which perpetuates age-old tropes of familial conflict?

Yes those saas-bahu shows are very harmful and damaging too...they reinforce the worse aspects of Indian family life, portray everyone as a scheming, untrustworthy person, and unfortunately, are watched by millions of CHILDREN too while their moms remained glued to the screen. I'm convinced they are psychologically very dangerous. There's a reason most of us weren't allowed to watch soaps on tv in America when we were kids (during summer vacation for example)..it's bad for you and warps your view of the world. There is evidence that watching these shows makes kids anxious and feel very insecure about their own home and family situations.

4) Political Correctness has not infected indian society to the extent it has infected US society

I agree with #7 Suraj and #8 DizzyDesi. Ethnic humor in India enjoys certain liberties that would break friendships in the US. However, that is not to say that Indians are any less evolved on the PC scale. India's PC is different - that's all.

Indians don't mind jokes about the cheapness of gujus, the argumentative nature or fish eating of Bengalis, the 12 noon lapse of logic of the Sikhs and the sheer boorishness of Biharis (as a Bihari, I had to throw that one in to maintain American political correctness). What they would not approve of, for example, are disparaging remarks about somebody's older brother or some woman one knows socially or pundits in general. Jokes about the disadvantaged and oppressed are also politically incorrect in India. I know several guju, Sardarji and Bihari jokes. I have never once heard a joke about one of the scheduled castes.

The culture is different, folks, as if no one noticed.

The issue here, though, is not so much India's acceptance of ethnic humor but PUBLIC broadcast of ethnic slurs. Public statements should, indeed, be held to a culture-neutral, moral high-ground in a civilized nation, and no country knows this better than India. India's censorship of its media is extremely severe. I doubt if shock radio in India will ever produce a specimen like Howard Stern, for instance. By the same token, I doubt if this DJ won public accolades for the type of ethnic jokes that are rampant by the watercoolers in India every day.

#25 Chachaji: "I find the very fact that a program of that name exists in India, directly copying the format, conceit, and subtext of the American equivalent - somewhat disturbing, since it appears to point to a certain slavishness of mindset,"

It is no different than Coca-Cola and Kellogg's cereals sold at every "nukkar" in India. Globalization is here. American Idol is a global brand. By the way, Chachaji, the Indian Idol program is darn good, and it is very cleverly adapted to the culture. There is no Simon, for example. An older Indian person occupying the powerful position of a judge will not slap teenagers around just for laughs. Neither do the contestants make sassy remarks. Instead, they call the judges "sir" or "ma'm" and cry a lot on stage especially if their old parents are in the audience. There are gratuitous feet-touching of the judges and ashirvad-giving of the young ones. It is all so doggone wholesome that it makes American Idol look perverted. What can I say! I "low" it!

floridian, for a bihari, you are really articulate!

I doubt if shock radio in India will ever produce a specimen like Howard Stern, for instance.

Maybe, not Howard Stern or Rush Limbaugh types.

It is all changing.

25 years ago, there was Doorsdarshan and AIR (All India Radio).

Now, they are hazaar (thousand) channels, and cable TV.

FM Radio, talk radio, and shock jocks are very new - last 2-3 years, maybe (I think so, anyway it is very recent).

I do not think they have clear guidelines, regulatory bodies in place - but this said, I & B (Information & Broadcasting) Ministry can be pretty severe.

Give us an inch, and we will divide it into 'ours' and 'yours', then riot and call names, hold peace talks and covertly try to finish the other guy off.

I doubt if shock radio in India will ever produce a specimen like Howard Stern, for instance.

Maybe, not Howard Stern or Rush Limbaugh types.

It is all changing.

This reminds me of the scene in Monsoon Wedding where Aditi's boyfriend is a host on a talk show. There are two sets of guests..the khadi wearing traditionalists and the western attired americsan returned guy. There are surely different standards of tolerance in India too.

I haven't been to India in ages and don't watch Indian TV etc so this is a question to those who know... Have standards changed in regards to what is wholesome and acceptable and what is not?

Also, I think that comparing the Gurkha comment to calling a sikh turban a nappy was in awful taste. While the Gurkha comment was stereotypical, it wasn't that insulting in my opinion. Reminds me of the nonsense some ultra hindu group said when MF Hussain painted abstract images of a semi clad Bharat Mata. Instead of just dealing with the offending painting, they had to go on record on what Hussain should paint. Some really unecessarily awful stuff was said.

I am glad this issue has been brought up. I really cringe when Nepalis are so needlessly abused throughout India, both for their facial features as well as traditions. India needs to treat them well.

However, I don't think the RJs are necessarily trying to be shock jocks. Racial humor is just acceptable in Indian media and to the general populace, against east Asians and blacks in particular. But we'll learn. And if it takes controversies like this to do so, so be it.

Have standards changed in regards to what is wholesome and acceptable and what is not?

Massively, I have never similar dramatic change in USA in media, that India is undergoing.

If you were TV surfing channel in India, in 1980, 1988, 1995, 1998, 2002, 2007 - what you would see a change as dramatic as day and night

One example: Compare Chitrahar days of 1970-80s songs to remixes of same songs today. Entirely different presentation - 100000000X more risque

I find evolution of Indian media today quite interesting - maybe, it is what it was the heydays of yellow journalism and page 3 in USA/ UK

Interestingly enough, the leaders of India have been fawning over American astronaut Sunita Williams for a couple weeks now, appropriating her as they see fit, even though she isn’t an Indian citizen

Abhi, this is something I have always wondered abt Indian media and Indian psyche ..as to why "famous" & "succesful" people of Indian origin are eulogized so much... sometimes with more emphasis on their "Indian-ness" than the achievements. As if their success and fame makes it special because of Indian connections/roots ? Is this just because of media/brand value that can sell/attract attention or is it because of lack of role models in the country ? The same thing happened when Kalpana chawla went into space and later died. Agreed that succesful women is a good thing to advertise in a patriarchal society like India but I have seen similar phenomena in many other non-feminine cases too.

I’m not going to even pretend I have a clue about all the ethnic stereotypes in India. I know us gujus are supposed to be cheap and my mom always tells me South Indians are smart because they eat fish :) That is basically where my knowledge of Indian stereotypes ends. Now that I have a Nepali sister-in-law though, this particular stereotype is something I wanted to understand better.

More Indian stereotypes;

Sikhs are stupid.
Punjabi men have big di*ks.
Bengalis are lazy starving artist/poet types.
Punjabis are like westerners in that they are undisciplined and eat meat and drink alcohol and possibly even date.
Biharis are ruffians.
U.P.ites are rough and uncultured in their speech.
Indian mothers are the best in the world because women outside of India do not have as much motherly instinct as Indian mothers.
Indian women are the chastest women in the world and are actually world reknowned for their chastity.

Indian mothers are the best in the world because women outside of India do not have as much motherly instinct as Indian mothers.

Guy/ Gal,

This is an universal ideal every culture holds.

Have you read Maxim Gorky's Mother (Russia novel about an ideal russian mother, I guess Russian winters are not easy for raising family), heard about Jewish mother, or the term American Pie (which again comes from family life and motherhood), Arabian mother (Arabs hold the motherhood concept in very idealized, i guess they made their kids survive in harsh deserts 50-60 years ago) terms. These all similar to one you pointed above.

India has no hegemony on sterotypes, idealization. Everyone does it.

I was also looking for mention of what exactly the RJ said. But not a single news channel actually mentioned it. Actually a few news channels did not even give the name of the FM station that broadcast it. Thanks SM for the text of the comment.

The trend of mobs taking offence to stuff has become a general trend in India. It has become so bad that people feel that they have to riot, otherwise it would seem that they have accepted the comment. I feel that this is fundamentally related to the law on freedom of speech. It says that freedom of speech can be curtailed in case of a law and order problem. A law and order problem can be easily created by a few hooligans.

If you were TV surfing channel in India, in 1980, 1988, 1995, 1998, 2002, 2007 - what you would see a change as dramatic as day and night

The sea change happened in the early 90s, when cable TV made inroads into India, as a result of liberalization, as well as the glamor of international channels as demonstrated by the five-star hotels etc. showing CNN and its catchy videos of green missile trajectories filmed in night vision during the first gulf war. That was when the choice available to Indian viewers expanded significantly, and that had an effect on the earlier staid programming.

Abhi, this is something I have always wondered abt Indian media and Indian psyche ..as to why "famous" & "succesful" people of Indian origin are eulogized so much... sometimes with more emphasis on their "Indian-ness" than the achievements.

Many places, including towns in the US, have this behavior. A canonical example is the nightly news which always covers even remote events with a lens on people who might have a tenuous connection to the area (suppose there's an aircrash, the story will be about one guy who grew up in the town, who might have since moved elsewhere). I thought Anchorman, in all its zaniness, had some witty excoriation of this behavior of the news coverage on local channels.

At least, in India, it is often more about Indianness than local loyalties (as it is the US), at least to the extent that I've seen.

Christ, Chopin. Here I am, a lazy Bengali starving artist. I thought I was a nonconformist, but in fact I'm conforming to a vicious racist stereotype.

I should've become a doctor.

Here I am, a lazy Bengali starving artist. I thought I was a nonconformist, but in fact I'm conforming to a vicious racist stereotype.

maybe you could break out of the mold by stopping eating fish.

I don't eat fish. I do swim like a fish. Maybe I can subvert the stereotype by demonstrating that Bengalis exhibit great swimming prowess.

Is there anything wrong with eating a lot of fish? Is it supposed to be weird, or something? I mean, it's not goat's blood. Saw some of that dried up and ready to munch in a market once.

floridian, for a bihari, you are really articulate!

dravidian lurker, you are quite articulate too, for a lurker.

dravidian lurker, you are quite articulate too, for a lurker.

nah, just talkative :) mebbe i should go by kint.

More Indian stereotypes;

Sikhs are stupid.
Punjabi men have big di*ks.
Bengalis are lazy starving artist/poet types.
Punjabis are like westerners in that they are undisciplined and eat meat and drink alcohol and possibly even date.
Biharis are ruffians.
U.P.ites are rough and uncultured in their speech.
Indian mothers are the best in the world because women outside of India do not have as much motherly instinct as Indian mothers.
Indian women are the chastest women in the world and are actually world reknowned for their chastity.
:
:
:
:
Marwaris are stingy
Sindis men are the hairiest of all Indians
Maharashtrians are Khadoos
Biharis are unscrupulous
Goans are easy
Gujjus are Kanjoos

Some Mumbai sterotypes of foreigners
Uzbek women (Natashas) in Mumbai high end CSW, Nepali women the cheap CSW
Nigerians are drug dealers
Arabs go crazy when it rains.

amelie, yeah, some other people have said bengalis idealize the aquiline sharp features and stuff. not much of an issue in my family, they fun of me for my big nose, and it ain't that big (at least compared to my gf's german american fam).

are u not a mughal muslim? (copyright dalitstan.com :)
dp many west asians have pug noses?
perhaps u r but didn't inherit some of the features.

Some guy said that Amit Paul is Khasi.
Let me clarify that he is a Bengali, although the support for Amit from the predominantly Khasi population in Shillong was unprecedented. Bengalis and Khasis have a history of communal mistrust resulting in occasional violence in Shillong for decades now. But this event really drew the whole of Shillong together. Fortunately the result did not result in a backlash against the sizeable Nepali community in Shillong as feared.

Also razib, the Assamese are not a single ethnic group in truth (I really don't know about Bengalis). There are some who are similar to mongoloids because they are mongoloids (Tai Ahoms, and the Assamese tribes, Bodos etc). The Assamese caste people (Brahmins, Kalitas etc) are caucasian with occasional mongoloid influence. Similar with the Nepali population (hill tribes being Mongoloid, and plain caste people not). Of course the mongolian influence on these two caste groups considerable due to possible historical inter marriage/inter copulation.

Just to get that out of the way. With regards to the riot, really this is the first time I am aware of a real protest against racial slurs by the Nepali community. Its about time too, because it is becoming all too frequent. But the subsequent rioting was uncalled for. But to be frank the Bengalis have been the subject of racial taunts and violence in areas around Darjeeling and Shillong for too long and maybe this was payback time.

I have done schooling in both Shillong and Darjeeling, and for me this is really an interesting development of race/ethnic relations in and around these places, which otherwise are fantastic to vegetate in.

Thansk for the clarification, Spidy. I was going to poitn out that Amit was from Shillong. When I was up in Siliguri a few weeks earlier, young women were stopping cars on some of teh roads with a rope. They asked for donations so they could buy airtime on cell phones to call in and vote for Prashant Tamang.

There are many who think that Darjeeling will someday soon become it's own autonomous region or state apart from W. Bengal. Certainly, if you look at the grip the current mayor has on running the city, you see that he's not so beholden to the ruling party in Kolkata, partly becasue of the distance adn the tea/tourism industry.

fsowalla
To be fair, the original construct of states were predominantly around linguistic grounds, so the Nepalis of Darjeeling do have a fair shout at their own state, or at least autonomy. If not for tea and tourism, that area might well have been economically deprived compared to the rest of WB. But I don't think it will happen, its too small a place to exist independently, and as far as i know the struggle for autonomy is dormant if not dead.

I was in Shillong just before and during the results, and the support for Amit was overwhelming. Almost everybody I know was somehow involved in the campaign, either raising funds for smses or putting up banners and posters. Unfortunately it was not enough:(

Back 1998, David Dhawan's movie Gharwali Baharwali provoked similar protests by Gurkhas. I don't recall the details, & Google isn't helping, but one of the heroines in the movie was supposed to be Nepali (she was played by an Andhra actress called Rambha) & there was some joke about her baby identifying khaki colors because he was Nepali/ Gurkha & hence destined to be a bahadur (guard). So much for Johnny Gurkha.

And as some of you wrote, the violence was also because of anti-Nepali protests by Bengalis & Khasis of Shillong who were upset that their local boy didn't win:

"Tamang's surprise win sparked unrest in India’s troubled north-east region where supporters of Paul attacked Nepalese in Shillong town, the capital of Meghalaya. The violence was later exacerbated by a Delhi radio DJ who made allegedly “insulting” comments about Tamang and the Gurkha population from which he is descended." from Times of London

The Khasis vs Bengalis vs 'outsiders' politics gets rather murky at this point.

Tipu, the "Times of London" must have done some shoddy reporting in this case.
I was in Shillong, and the only signs of trouble was moderate deployment of security personel in Nepali dominated areas as a preventive measure. As I said earlier, there was a real fear of backlash but which never really materialized.
Also the violence in Siliguri had nothing to do with Amit's popularity in Shillong, given the fact that W.B had their own Bengali contender in Emon Chatterjee who was a top three contender. I thought it was triggered by the incident between the Nepali protestors and a patient's family, and escalated because of underlying tensions between Nepalis and Bengalis in and around Siliguri. Again nothing to do with Khasis and/or Amit.
There is a propensity to include all available reports and compile them into a cause and effect article in these sort of national and international newspapers, when the available print space for small, insignificant locations is limited.

Darjeeling is not part of Nepal.
Darjeeling is part of Sikkim.
First return Darjeeling to Sikkim.
Then restore Sikkimese independence.
Then restore the Kathmandu Valley to the Newars and sent the Nepalis back where they came from.

are u not a mughal muslim?

Obviously you have not seen his pictures. He looks habshi not mughal.

Amit may be considered a bengali as his mother tongue is bengali but he sure looks more assamese than bengali. His best friends on the show were the gurkha Prashant and the chinese Chang.

Uzbek women (Natashas) in Mumbai high end CSW, Nepali women the cheap

Nepalese girls in turn command a premium over native indian girls in the brothels of Mumbai:

http://www.freeachild.org/article2.html

Underage Nepalese girls are a valuable commodity in India: they are sent to work in cramped, squalid brothels where disease and death are rife. Now the battle to rescue them is hotting up.

Mumbai (Bombay) looks like the end of the world. Warrens of blackened, decaying slum dwellings offer some shelter, but half the population, it is said, live on the streets. Falkland Road – once the red-light district for the British Army and known locally as White Lane because white men used to go there – and Kamathipura are at the heart of this rank city. Flies swarm around mountains of rotting food, dead rats and infested rubbish litter the streets, and you find yourself stepping across pungent streams of raw sewage.

From mid-afternoon, women in brilliantly coloured saris lounge in doorways, while other female faces peer from the barred windows and locked grilles of the area’s notorious “cages.” A restless mob of undernourished men – rickshaw pullers, taxi drivers, itinerant workers – prowls up and down, assessing the goods. At a glance, at least half these women are Nepalese.

Kanchi Tamang is sitting on a doorstep, touting for custom. She has the face of an angel, a perfect oval with the pale skin and Mongolian eyes that Indian men prefer. In better circumstances she could have been a movie star in Mumbai’s glitzy Bollywood. But as she says, with a sullen lift of the shoulders, “What’s the use of being beautiful when you work in a place like this?”

Why did Prashant Tamang do this?

How many of us have heard them being called chinkis? Indians (particularly North Indians) will never accept north-easterners as their own. Time to give independence to the seven sisters or better, let them accede to CHINA, after all, we think them all chinese, dont we

Making 'derogatory,sarcastic & ethnic/regional' statements is not new & is widely accepted as part of 'jocular conversation' between friends

Calling an Indian with mongoloid features Chinese, and associating him with momos and chawkidari is not the same thing. I don't expect a north indian to understand. Just dont cuss about Shilpa Shetty next time, and spare us all the hypocrisy

Maybe I have been infected by 'PC going mad'. But looking at some of the attitudes or comments that people come out with in India, its difficult not to cringe. I think saying that it happens all the time and its a part of life in India doesn't quite justify the fact that a lot of these remarks are quite offensive. I have had friends visit India with me previously and some of the questions and comments that were thrown our way in all innocence were shocking.. and embarrassing. I can't help but feel that Indians (both diaspora and back in the motherland) can be quite xenophobic. You could argue that people don't know better, but that still doesn't make it less offensive. Here is an excellent article on the issue:
http://www.shivamvij.com/2007/02/the-stain-that-just-wont-wash.html

00rush, white people have similar experiences in India also. Especially the persistant gazing, name calling (monkey as well), and rental discrimination. It's xenophobia which knows no color, so I don't accept the premise of the piece that people in India respect whites and don't respect blacks, based on skin color.

That persistent gaze on the street that Ojwando faced, people assured him, came from curiosity. After all, many he met didn’t even know where Kenya was. The name-calling followed: strangers and even people known to him would call him a monkey. “When even English-speaking people behave like this, I don’t see how you could say it comes from any kind of curiosity,” Ojwando says. He learned soon enough to call ‘curiosity’ by its proper name: there were landlords who wouldn’t rent out rooms to Africans and there were parents who wouldn’t approve of their daughters going out with Black men. “It surely is racism when people refuse to sit next to you in a bus, when people you don’t know sneer at you, and when you’re pointed out to kids and called a ‘negro’.”

In re Chopin at #48:

Indian mothers are the best in the world because women outside of India do not have as much motherly instinct as Indian mothers.

and Kush Tandon's retort at #49

heard about [the] Jewish mother. . .

I've gotta say, Kush, that the two aren't equivalent!! The urban Jewish stereotype, since the late 1890's, of the "Jewish mother" is rather more complex (and hilarious) than the brave-nurturing-and-long-suffering Indian stereotype.

00rush, white people have similar experiences in India also. Especially the persistant gazing, name calling (monkey as well), and rental discrimination. It's xenophobia which knows no color, so I don't accept the premise of the piece that people in India respect whites and don't respect blacks, based on skin color.

really? when iw as travelling in india with a bunch of europeans, people were kissing their a$$es constantly. not sure if africans get the same red carpet treatment.

Yeah, most service industry people will kiss whites' asses. But there are a lot of nasty comments from people who have no money to gain. Examples heard by this foreign correspondent while travelling with whitey: 'this one is not ugly. most of them are ugly.' (on a train)'this one is okay, but you should have seen the ones I had to travel with last week...' 'everyone knows they are dirty-dirty (nongra-nongra) over there', 'so -do all American women sleep with men before they marry?', (right after 9/11) 'so now you know bad things happen to everyone, no matter where they come from', 'why do they smell like that? is it because they eat so much meat?' n.b. whitey was not smelly, dirty and/or American.

Darjeeling is not part of Nepal.
Darjeeling is part of Sikkim.
First return Darjeeling to Sikkim.
Then restore Sikkimese independence.
Then restore the Kathmandu Valley to the Newars and sent the Nepalis back where they came from.

"Don't mind your nationality
you have got the identity of an African

'Cause if you come from Clarendon
and if you come from Portland
and if you come from Westmoreland, you're an African"

~ African-Peter Tosh.

How bout we all move to Africa?????

.. white people have similar experiences in India also. Especially the persistant gazing, name calling (monkey as well), and rental discrimination.

I completely agree! My girlfriend is working in India and as a white American girl, she had fair share of people staring, calling names, etc. The funniest (in hindsight) conversation I have had regarding this is with an all-knowing auntyji who sat me down one day to give me advice on relationships. It went something like:

'Beta, I don't care who you marry. Just remember the simple rule, no BMW.'

I asked her if she had some issues with German cars.

'No, no.. No Blacks, Muslims or Whites.'

Pretty much sums it up really..

Yeah, most service industry people will kiss whites' asses. But there are a lot of nasty comments from people who have no money to gain. Examples heard by this foreign correspondent while travelling with whitey: 'this one is not ugly. most of them are ugly.' (on a train)'this one is okay, but you should have seen the ones I had to travel with last week...' 'everyone knows they are dirty-dirty (nongra-nongra) over there', 'so -do all American women sleep with men before they marry?', (right after 9/11) 'so now you know bad things happen to everyone, no matter where they come from', 'why do they smell like that? is it because they eat so much meat?' n.b. whitey was not smelly, dirty and/or American.

Service industry people kiss almost any customer's ass whom they think have alot of $$$, no matter the color of skin or where they are from. However, if you are living in India for extended periods of time and thus no longer qualify as "tourist", and start to move with the locals, that's when the cruelty, racism, xenophobia starts. For tourists with money, a few weeks in Indian resorts may seem like paradise.

'everyone knows they are dirty-dirty (nongra-nongra) over there',

Are you sure it wasn't "nanga-nanga", which means "naked-naked"? Coz that's another stereotype of foreigners.

Tara, it was in Bengali - nangra or nongra means 'dirty'. They wouldn't call foreigners 'naked', they'd find a polite way of calling them whores. As for the bit about the service industry people kowtowing to anyone with money, it's only true to a certain extent. I looked like a typical Westerner, albeit with brown skin, backpack, tall, jeans/tank tops etc, but when I travelled with a white person, the ass-kissing they got was something I did not experience. On the other hand, I got a lot more genuine help and attention from the locals, especially when they figured out I was 'really' a local. I got cheated less, and they could be quite protective at times, which I didn't really see in them vis a vis foreign females.

I sympathize about the xenophobia if you've experienced it. My ex once walked right into a spot buzzing with angry wasps, watched by a couple of dozen locals, who promptly started to laugh as soon as he got stung. They'd warned all of their own about the place, but decided they'd have a little fun at his expense. Mind you, they might have done the same to some rich Mumbai guy.

I sympathize about the xenophobia if you've experienced it.

I was always on the giving, rather than receiving end of xenophobia in India. Not until I shifted and became an ex-pat did I change my ways. It took finally being on the receiving end to put an end to my cruelty. White, black or yellow, when it came to xenophobia, I was an equal oppurtunity employer.

I looked like a typical Westerner, albeit with brown skin, backpack, tall, jeans/tank tops etc, but when I travelled with a white person, the ass-kissing they got was something I did not experience.

Do you think if you dressed in a more sophisticated, conservative style you may have gotten more respect? We used to dish out alot of respect to Memsahibs, Madams and other what we deemed "properly attired" females. Jeans and tank tops were not acceptable attire to me back then, no matter who wore them.

Jeans

are jeans considered "sl*tty" clothes in india? they seem to cover up pretty good. come to think of it, a sari seems to reveal as much as jeans and a tank top.

are jeans considered "sl*tty" clothes in india? they seem to cover up pretty good. come to think of it, a sari seems to reveal as much as jeans and a tank top.

Not neccessarily slutty, but not "appropriate" in many circumstances. Jeans with a long kurti seem to be becoming more and more acceptable. Tank tops are considered slutty.

My ex once walked right into a spot buzzing with angry wasps, watched by a couple of dozen locals

I read this as a spot buzzing with angry w.a.s.p.s (white anglo saxon protestants). LOL.

Tank tops are considered slutty

so..if i was a grl (and wanted to catch a lot of eyes) i would wear saris in a provocative fassion. reveal just as much and be conservative all at the same time. i love arb.

Tara,

Can you please refrain from making these unsubstantiated statements or atleast qualify them as your own opinion, tank tops are not considered slutty in big cities and it will be great to know where your experiences were.

so..if i was a grl (and wanted to catch a lot of eyes) i would wear saris in a provocative fassion. reveal just as much and be conservative all at the same time. i love arb.

Some women do that too, but the sari is not really seen as sexy attire in India unless you wear Bollywood fashion like with a backless choli or a bikini style top as the choli, which normally does not happen in every day life.

Some women do that too, but the sari is not really seen as sexy attire in India

a grl who does a lot of crunches and has the body for it in a sari looks plenty sexy to me. takes the right body type to pull it off though. not the easiest look in the world to make fly.

Saris are beautiful but the way they are commonly worn cannot be called "sexy", regardless of body type.

Saris are beautiful but the way they are commonly worn cannot be called "sexy"

maybe im just drty...

Saris are like dhotis or lungis, not traditionally sexy, but can be, depending on how they are worn. Bollywood films make them all look sexy. Ordinary day to day wear in India does not.

are jeans considered "sl*tty" clothes in india? they seem to cover up pretty good. come to think of it, a sari seems to reveal as much as jeans and a tank top.

Jeans aren't "slutty". They are "modern". A girl in jeans indicates that she doesn't think that tradition applies to her. It means that she doesn't think that the girl should respect her parents, or stay with them until marraige. It means that she wants to be seen on an equal footing with men, and she wants the same rights as men, including the right to go out alone in public, live by herself, and yes, have sex with whomever she pleases.

It's not about covering or not covering up. It's about a woman leaving a woman's place and taking a man's place in this world.

Nowdays, people don;t look down on girls wearing jeans, atleast not in major cities. It was much worse in my parent's time (I'm in my 30's, they are in their 60's) But, the people who do look down on girls wearing jeans do so because they assume that the girl has parted with tradition, crossed the Lakshman-Rekha, so to speak, and is undeserving of the respect and protection reserved for women. And as you know, women are respected more than men in traditional India

Jeans aren't "slutty". They are "modern".

jeans are banned in many colleges in India...they say it distracts the teachers.

Tara - funny how the net mixes up identities. I assumed you were a Japanese who'd lived in India. My ex was white and laughed at by small town locals, though buzzing WASPs would make for a better story. As for me, though ABD, I own property in India and have had to spend substantial time there. I lived in a small town in India for a year, wore saris the whole time. I would visit my Dad in Kolkata and wear the saris there. Oddly, the street vendors were respectful when I was in a sari. But in the large hotels, or expensive shops, my bf at the time was fawned all over, and I was treated just so-so. He'd keep insisting they serve me first or ask me what I wanted.

I have some bad stories. I was in a large middle-class gathering, dressed in a sari, when an Indian girl elbowed me roughly to get me out of the way, then elbowed my (white) bf (who was in kurta-pyjama). Suddenly she stopped, turned around, looked at him and smiled apologetically. 'I'm so sorry,' she said in impeccable English, then wafted away. It was like brown skin could be shoved with impunity. Another story: a cybercafe run by an older Indian woman. Me in a sari, with a Canadian guy and an American guy. I ask a question about one of the badly-running computers. She simply dismisses me and says 'my system is fine, ask him or him how to do it.' When I again point out that there's something not right, she imperiously demands again that I 'ask him or him.'

I agree with Brown. You make a lot of unsubstantiated generalizations. I saw a girl walking down the street in Kolkata in a miniskirt, and no one was calling her a slut. Many girls wear sleeveless tops now, and many older women wear sleeveless blouses. As for tank tops being 'unsophisticated', it seems to me that the assumption that wearing a tank top means you are a slut is a lot more unsophisticated than the garment. I have run into your argument in India before, though generally it is made by fusty old men. Why should I have to pander to such medieval idiocy in order to be treated with respect?

Before I get taxed with inconsistency, I should clarify that I've been to India many times and travelled in many incarnations - including Slutty Foreigner (SF) and Desi Devi (DD)...

"Saris are like dhotis or lungis, not traditionally sexy, but can be, depending on how they are worn. Bollywood films make them all look sexy. Ordinary day to day wear in India does not."

not true. what is "traditionally" sexy? by whose standards? east or west? bollywood or non-bollywood? everyone has their own idea of what sexy is. depends how you define sexy. i've seen indian women who wear the sari in the "traditional" fashion get loads of compliments from westerners on how sexy - and that's exactly the word they use -- and alluring it is. sexy doesn't have to mean exposing more flesh or less or tying it in what is considered a more "sexy" manner. it's all how you present it and how you look in it.

"A girl in jeans indicates that she doesn't think that tradition applies to her. It means that she doesn't think that the girl should respect her parents, or stay with them until marraige. It means that she wants to be seen on an equal footing with men, and she wants the same rights as men, including the right to go out alone in public, live by herself, and yes, have sex with whomever she pleases."

i think those are rather sweeping generalizations:) i have relatives who wear jeans who think their parents should be respected, who do stay with their parents until marriage and wouldn't dream of doing otherwise, don't really want to live alone etc. and there are women who wear the sari only who want to be on equal footing with men, who want the same rights as men, who want to go out alone in public etc. one doesn't indicate anything more than the other except in the minds of people being forced to make these false distinctions.

i think it's really sad when people start equating indian traditional clothing with everything that is "backwards" - even if it isn't backwards - and western clothing with everything that is good or liberated or progressive or whatever. sometimes it's about something as shallow as fashion. you don't have to wear western clothing to either be "progressive" or be seen as "progressive" (swapan dasgupta made a good point about this disturbing falsehood perpetuated by a woman ceo in a fashion magazine in india in a recent column). And certainly not everyone who wears western, so-called "modern" clothing is that "liberal" or "progressive" or knowledgeable about these things.

Darjeeling is not part of Nepal.
Darjeeling is part of Sikkim.
First return Darjeeling to Sikkim.

Darjeeling is part of West Bengal today

I was in a large middle-class gathering, dressed in a sari, when an Indian girl elbowed me roughly to get me out of the way, then elbowed my (white) bf (who was in kurta-pyjama). Suddenly she stopped, turned around, looked at him and smiled apologetically. 'I'm so sorry,' she said in impeccable English, then wafted away. It was like brown skin could be shoved with impunity

Well, it's common for us to shove each other, it's in the culture so no need to be formal and say "sorry" in most circumstances. However, we know that non-Indians find such behaviour rude so then we say sorry. Other Indians in general do not find the behaviour rude. We are used to it.

DizzyDesi / Ankur: "Does the particular comment touch a raw nerve ?" Oh-yes-it-blooming-does!!!!!! This contest was not "just" a singing contest for the people in Darjeeling and Nepalis of Indian origin. It marked their entry and footprint into mainland India. The RJ's insensitive comments only brought home the fact that no matter how many brave Gorkha soldiers fight on the borders defending India, no matter how many Nepalis live and work in Corporate India, they will always be considered as "watchmen" and "bahadur" in India. I noticed how one commentor above ended his comment with "Gee Shabgee". Q.E.D.

I am not a Nepali but I fully support the Nepali community's reaction to RJ Nitin/Johnathan Brady's comments on air. Isn't this the same Sepia Mutiny where "Apu's character in the Simpsons was discussed with much debate and outrage. In America, when the Simpsons had an Indian character/caricature named â€Ã