Thanks for the link, Amardeep! Haha its so true, I searched my university facebook groups for "perfect 10's" "The A-list" "Hottest girls at __ university"...hoping I would bump into one of those chicks on campus or in class (it never happened). I began poking and messaging these random hot girls, when I saw some of them on campus (I was recognized due to my profile picture and low student population of brown guys), I got cold stares and weird looks from 90% of them. I had to deactivate my facebook account and keep on the downlow for a while.

Regarding Penn Masala, this is the first time I've heard from them in a long, long time (2003?). Perhaps someone can inform me about their latest ongoings?

Regarding Penn Masala, this is the first time I've heard from them in a long, long time (2003?). Perhaps someone can inform me about their latest ongoings?

Nevermind, they have a new CD.

This is funny. :)
Is it just me, or does the singer lose his Apu-like accent a quarter of a way through the song? Accent training needed, indeed!

Anyone have news on Raagapella? I've heard from friends from Cali that they are even better!

Haha its so true, I searched my university facebook groups for "perfect 10's" "The A-list" "Hottest girls at __ university"...hoping I would bump into one of those chicks on campus or in class (it never happened). I began poking and messaging these random hot girls, when I saw some of them on campus (I was recognized due to my profile picture and low student population of brown guys), I got cold stares and weird looks from 90% of them. I had to deactivate my facebook account and keep on the downlow for a while.

...are you for real? what upsets me most about this is that you've taken on the handle 'Jason Bourne.' The real Jason Bourne wouldn't resort to such lowly, creepy tactics.

Jason Bourne, I have to say, I find your comment a bit troubling. This video is a joke about stalking -- but you sound like you've actually done a little stalking; I'm not surprised you got cold stares from women you tried to meet this way.

In some ways I'm glad I went to college before the social networking era. I've been having fun with Facebook Apps like Scrabulous, but I still prefer having a real social life when it comes down to it.

the other thing about 'Jason Bourne' is - on the thread about The Compulsive Confessor, he said that he wouldn't be proud to have a sister or daughter like eM. well, 'Jason Bourne,' I'd be ashamed to have a creepy stalker like you in my family.

what upsets me most about this is that you've taken on the handle 'Jason Bourne.' The real Jason Bourne wouldn't resort to such lowly, creepy tactics.

Yes, it is true, but a lot of guys I know do the same thing. My friends are worse than me. One of my friends (Patel) looks up random girl's dorm/apt address on facebook and stalks/visits them : o . Its not our fault that our university is 62% male and 37% female.

Jason Bourne is my inspiration to change : ( .

what is this facebook where one meets women? do they make good martinis there?

Yes, it is true, but a lot of guys I know do the same thing. My friends are worse than me. One of my friends (Patel) looks up random girl's dorm/apt address on facebook and stalks/visits them : o . Its not our fault that our university is 62% male and 37% female.

umm wtf. just because there are more men than women at your university is not an invitation to literally STALK them. nor does the fact that your friends are 'worse' than you make it ok.

Yes, it is true, but a lot of guys I know do the same thing.

... and so it's ok to do it. The brown theory of relativity!

One of my other favorite PennMasala gems is "Show Me the Meaning of Being Desi". I was looking for a video, but couldn't find a good one with them in it. :(

I was at the concert they gave for the release of their 2nd album. At it, they did a brilliant "Behind the Music" spoof that they showed in parts throughout the concert. I've been looking for clips of that ever since then, but to no avail.

this is funny and yet strangely disturbing too....

I agree i preferred being at uni before all these networks were around... i keep my profile v limited on facebook and the best thing was it helped me reconnect with old friends but i hardly spend anytime on there.

Real friends are way more fun that x number of online friends.

They say stalking is the sincerest form of flattery.

and are the women really hot on facebook? i mean as hot as katarina van den heuvel? as smart as jenna jameson?

They say stalking is the sincerest form of flattery.

I wonder if you will hold this opinion after the restraining order.

I wonder if you will hold this opinion after the restraining order.

Restraining order is dispositive evidence of flattery.

One of my other favorite PennMasala gems is "Show Me the Meaning of Being Desi". I was looking for a video, but couldn't find a good one with them in it. :(

I love that song as well. "I'm a fob just look at me....how to party I don't know....clothes that match don't interest me baby" :D

mean as hot as katarina van den heuvel?

I bet she was pretty cute when she was at Princeton.

Restraining order is dispositive evidence of flattery.

aaaah! an optimist and a sincere fan. flattery indeed. :D

On a related note, some opinion pieces about online social-network sites:

From NYT: The Fakebook Generation
From WSJ: More, But Not Merrier

What I find most intriguing is summed up in this quote (from the WSJ article): "Sites such as MySpace or Facebook don't allow users to distinguish among various types of personal relationships: your lover, your best friend, your work colleague and your mother are all "friends" in this world and are all categorized in the same way online."

Now that is creepy.

This is hilarious, very very good.

what Katrina Van Den Heuvel is not preety?? I think she is the preetiest amongst pundits.

Jason Bourne, I have to say, I find your comment a bit troubling. This video is a joke about stalking -- but you sound like you've actually done a little stalking;

Poking and messaging girls on facebook makes me a stalker? I've never stalked a girl in my life. My friends have, I have not.

I'd be ashamed to have a creepy stalker like you in my family.

Are you an undergrad in college? To reiterate, I have never stalked a girl in my life. I poked and messaged girls on facebook, thats it.

Amardeep & Nala, if you're not an undergrad in college, do you have younger undergrad siblings/cousins in college? Ask them.

That's pretty creepy, but I have to ask: who puts their physical address on Facebook? Seriously, that's just stupid!

Jason Bourne - yes, I'm an undergrad in college. maybe it depends on the type of school you go to, but at my school, it's kind of thought of as weird if a stranger randomly messages you and pokes you without even adding you as a facebook friend. regardless of whether your behavior is literally 'stalker' behavior or not, it's still messed up (and will NOT get you laid), which you realized when you deactivated your facebook account to lay low for a while, as you said.

Sarah - some people put their dorm and room number. assuming that you're part of a university network and only people in that network can see your profile, they'd probably have access to that information anyway, through the school, so i don't think it's that dangerous...

The video was hilarious. I do think that women/men need to take precautions on these i-net social networking things. You never know who's a weirdo. I ened up making a great girlfriend back out East circa 2004. She messaged me and said something like, "I just moved back from Cali. You seem super cool. I'm looking for girlfriends." I kept thinking she was some creepy dude trying to lure me to a bar and then would nab me (this is after I talked to her on the phone). I was totally wrong, she was just one cool chick but I brought my friends to be safe on our first "date"!

so i don't think it's that dangerous...

forgot to add - until now. but i guess i don't have to worry, b/c i go to a school where there are slightly more women than men!

Since we're on this thread of hollering via facebook, can anyone please explain to me why desi brothers in cali and india friend me on facebook when I'm clearly located in NY? And in a relationship? I purposely put a picture of me and my boyfriend in my profile at all times to deter this type of contact, but to no avail. I get poked and messaged quite a bit and usually decline away. I also find it particularly odd that I get attention since I'm the most unphotogenic person I know, and the end of the day, how can you determine that you're attracted to someone after looking at a photo that's as big as a thumbprint?

But honestly, I think time is better spent on a dating site like Match or even a post on Craig's List, Jason Bourne. After living in a city as crowded and (potentially) lonely like NYC, I understand why it's easier for people to meet online. But at least on a dating site everyone's intentions are known and you're not making any unwanted approaches.

Nala - fair enough. It is weird to poke and message random girls -- but, hey, I'm a weird guy.

Sona - this is why I restrict privacy settings so that strangers who are not in my school networks can't see my profile pic. (well, that, and i'm intensely private to begin with)

On a related note, check out this video. Tamil song with English subtitles (as heard, not the real meaning).

That's pretty creepy, but I have to ask: who puts their physical address on Facebook? Seriously, that's just stupid!

Freshmen.

But honestly, I think time is better spent on a dating site like Match or even a post on Craig's List, Jason Bourne.

I'm not into dating sites, but thanks for the info. I love white girls but can't get any cute ones in the good ol' USA. You know what's creepy? When "washed up" White women in their 30's and 40's hit on you : ( . It happens frequently whenever I hit up a club or bar...I wish they would leave me alone.

@31: how is this related?

I wish they would leave me alone.

lol! tell them to poke you on facebook instead.

can't get any cute ones in the good ol' USA

out of curiosity, where do you get them? are you getting them in another country?

" mean as hot as katarina van den heuvel?"

"I bet she was pretty cute when she was at Princeton."

heh :-) John McEnroe writes about his infatuation with her during his school days, in his autobio.

'Jason Bourne' - again, are you for real? I'd recommend double-checking what you write before your post... the misogyny in your posts is ridiculous. Gee, maybe there's a reason you can't 'get' girls, of any race?

can't get any cute ones in the good ol' USA

out of curiosity, where do you get them? are you getting them in another country?

LOL!

chaitain: @31: how is this related?

Desi + music + funny connection. Tenuous, i know. :-)

out of curiosity, where do you get them? are you getting them in another country?

White girls? No, I don't get them from another country. Asian girls are into me for some odd reason, so I occasionally date them.

lol! tell them to poke you on facebook instead.

You're a funny guy!

Jay-B,
Not all women in their 30s and 40s are washed up. Watch your language, boy.

This seems to be a ripoff (or imitation, at least) of "MySpace: The Movie," the short film posted to YouTube more than a year and a half ago. The kid responsible got a lot of press (NPR, NYT, 20/20, etc) and had some possible production deals? I don't remember all the details, but there's probably more here and here.

*shakes head* I will stop commenting in this thread. The economics one looks interesting...

Sorry, Hot Old Mama.

the whole 'poke' thing really creeps me out. Facebook is intensely populated by people who should know better.

mr. cicatrix - my math teacher senior year of high school (the year that facebook opened up to high school students) was on facebook, and he/his profile was known for 'poking' students who had just joined facebook. um, no one has still figured out if it's really him or an anonymous student playing a joke.

mr. cicatrix - my math teacher senior year of high school (the year that facebook opened up to high school students) was on facebook, and he/his profile was known for 'poking' students who had just joined facebook. um, no one has still figured out if it's really him or an anonymous student playing a joke.

i was in high school before the age of face book. my high school band teacher just skipped the technology and spent all day b*nging under@ged grls. went to pr!son 4 it.

A friend explained the whole "poke" thing to me the other day. She knows someone who works for facebook. Apparently when you poke someone, they can see your limited profile for a week, to see if they like you and maybe want to poke back or be friends or something..or whatever...

A friend explained the whole "poke" thing to me the other day. She knows someone who works for facebook. Apparently when you poke someone, they can see your limited profile for a week, to see if they like you and maybe want to poke back or be friends or something..or whatever...

now, when you poke someone on facebook, does that mean you want to be friends, or "friends"

now, when you poke someone on facebook, does that mean you want to be friends, or "friends"

that my friend (no quotes) is your and the pokee's call!

what happens if it's a girl poking a girl...maybe all they want is friendship but the whole idea of 'poking' online is strange. i'm sure it's slang for shagging (uk slang)

that my friend (no quotes)

pre-emptive bubble burst. nice.

what happens if it's a girl poking a girl...

lesssbianism, its a san fransisco treat

Poking is more than likely a evolution of the old 'fingering' command on Unix systems which would allow you to see when a user had been last on the system. People used to write little tags with their identities, etc... and you could read them. It was fun back in the late 80s and earlier 90s to finger people because you might also 'chat' with them if they were online. Also you could see if people had gotten online to read their email, if you had sent them one. Back in those days, people didn't check email for weeks at a time!

This social networks are exhibiting interesting behavior as they become more complex.

Also I find the exchange between Nala and Jason Bourne to be very revealing how different the college social scene is for male and female desi(s).

Amardeep & Nala, if you're not an undergrad in college, do you have younger undergrad siblings/cousins in college? Ask them.

Sona, these are people who don't know you?

I actually am not bothered by the lack of distinction among "friends" online -- if you're my "real" friend I probably email/call you on a regular basis. If you're a facebook friend I don't. Nothing complicated.

I love the Masala boys. I took my parents to go see them in CA a few years ago, and they were charmed. I definitely got a, "Beta, where are the singing boys like this at your school?" :)

Also I find the exchange between Nala and Jason Bourne to be very revealing

yes, it was fun. i went to get popcorn to settle in and read some more, but apparently Jason Bourne has left the thread. pch! somebody else please say something outrageous so we can disagree with you ... ha ha, ok, just kidding. back to work.

I'm the most unphotogenic person I know, and the end of the day, how can you determine that you're attracted to someone after looking at a photo that's as big as a thumbprint?

Sona you are cute as a button, but regardless - some people online will poke/message/etc. you regardless. It's what my friend calls "playing the coefficient". Contact enough people, whether you think you have a chance or not, and one of them should pan out. It's like on the matrimonials websites, when you get messaged by someone who doesn't match what you've explicitly stated you are looking for. "I'm only looking for men in the NJ/NY area." "Hi, I live in Yaddayaddanagar in Texas."

And no, I'm not a Sona-stalker. She's my friend in real life.

I however am a Fuerza stalker. As are half the boys on the East Coast ;).

Playing the coefficient. I love it and may have to use it again and again.

And to answer Camille, they definitely don't know me. I tend to get confused though and think they may have been a family friend or someone I knew from Sikh camp (yes, like band camp) and then I look at their profile and voila....they are not.

Has Sepia ever looked at networking pattnerns of desis on facebook or myspace? How many desi pride groups there are or other cultural afficionado based sites? That might be interesting, though I have a feeling there would be less Tagore and more Shah Rukh Khan.

Has Sepia ever looked at networking pattnerns of desis on facebook or myspace? How many desi pride groups there are or other cultural afficionado based sites? That might be interesting, though I have a feeling there would be less Tagore and more Shah Rukh Khan.

Sona that is annoying as sin. Usually when random people friend me I'm related to them in some way, but I don't recognize them because it's been so long since we've seen each other!

As or the stalking component, I remember being at college and a family friend was in the same class as me. We hadn't seen each other for a few years, but were spending a lot of time together since the class. She was like a kid sister to me. One day she told me about this note that had been left on her car window. This Indian guy had written how he had seen her on campus and was too shy to approach her, but wanted to take her out. We discussed it and I said if she was curious she should meet him in a public place, etc... they ended up getting married and having 3 kids. The entire time at their reception at some Indian restaurant in Fairfax about 12 years ago, couldn't stop grinning cause it was so funny when people would ask in conversation if anyone knew how they met.

LOL! Oh Jason Bourne, you're so odd and creepy yet you feel misunderstood. Will you be my facebook friend?

I'm joking, so don't get your manties in a twist. Really, though, I found it hilarious that yours was the the first post on this thread and instead of laughing at the joke you could actually relate. Of course we all get that the concept of these friendstermyspacefacebook sites is slightly stalkerish in itself since you can be 'viewing' a person at any given moment in the day while people are doing the same to you.

And why is the fact that your lonely male friend is a Patel relevant? You can accuse a Patel of a lot of things, but 'stalker' doesn't ring any bells.

You can accuse a Patel of a lot of things, but 'stalker' doesn't ring any bells.

its like some combination of Patel Motel and Norman Bates..

Join the Sepia Mutiny group on facebook if you haven't already :0)

Join the Sepia Mutiny group on facebook if you haven't already :0)

LOL! Let's get the admins to add the facebook link next to the friendster link. hehe. that way more innocent sepia/facebook users can be poked by Jason and come to this post to complain. hehhehehe. ok, may be that's lame.

hi i am sweet indian guy wid lots of hobbies like dancing, partying 4 fun. wanna make frenship wid me???

my high school band teacher just skipped the technology and spent all day b*nging under@ged grls. went to pr!son 4 it.

OMG, Puli, my high school band teacher too. That's really weird.

(There were also public incidents involving the gym teacher and the journalism teacher... yeah, it was quite a school.)

OMG, Puli, my high school band teacher too. That's really weird.

wow...a lot of messed up band practice....

its like some combination of Patel Motel and Norman Bates..

Damn you, Puliogre! You always have to find a connection, don't you? Guess I walked right into that Six Degrees of Patel Motel trap...

Damn you, Puliogre! You always have to find a connection, don't you? Guess I walked right into that Six Degrees of Patel Motel trap

yeah...everything is connected to gujju motel owners.

is stalking inherently creepy? why should j-bourne be criticized for being mesmerized by a pretty face? back in college i was stalked. it didn't really bother me and i actually wouldve liked it if the girl was cute.

Are all botanists stalkers?

are all those who appreciate natural beauty, botanists?

are all those who appreciate natural beauty, botanists?

what is the sound of one hand....err..never mind.

Never heard of Penn Masala. But amusing. BTW, salon has linked to sepiamutiny on this.

salon link to sepiamutiny

is stalking inherently creepy? why should j-bourne be criticized for being mesmerized by a pretty face? back in college i was stalked. it didn't really bother me and i actually wouldve liked it if the girl was cute.

Serious posts about the political crisis in Pakistan ==> very few comments

Funny YouTube videos ==> link from Andrew Leonard at Salon.com

Oh well. Guess that's how the Internet works.

I havent had a chance to watch the video, but I wanted to share my 2 cents on this so called stalking.

I get invites from people who I might or not have known to add as a friend. Given my hotness factor, I am not used to any kind of unwarranted attention. One fine day I figured out that, these people send mass invites to all their contacts or something - gmail is a real culprit. It was so funny, when a girl who literally looked through me one evening added me as a friend the same night. It happened with both orkut and facebook, so I figured its just bad requetiquette.

facebook is too ...complicated. i wonder how the amrikans manage to run thru it! peanut butter stuck on the roof of the mouth freaks them out and this doesn't :P

this side of the world (GMT + 5:30) ..yea in the 'motherland' orkut rules. And it's an even bigger disaster when it comes to privacy. any Jason Bourne can check out any Nala's profile. numerous cases of cyber-stalking thru orkut in the media!
orkut shows the last 5 people to visit your profile ...which is most often a motley group of potential stalkers and any Rahul, Suresh or HotRod4U can write on your scrapbook with a fraaandship request!!
facebook's catching up in india too primarily b'coz the cool amrikan friends/ex-classmates/cousins are on fb and not orkut. but then as a friend had this gyaan-ful lesson as his status msg - "fb sux! u can't browse profiles of random chicks ...bah!"

as for Jason's case, y'all are treating him like an outcast for speaking out his mind. what he says is normal behavior among guys ..in US and more so in India. girlies, if that freaks u out, hear this - there is a very distinct possibility that ur dear bhaiya or lovey-dovey bf/hubby has done the same at some point of time. Yes - the level of poking varies from person to person.

get real!

... is normal behavior among guys ..in US and more so in India.

another brown theory of relative standards. i'm not as bad as the guy who is worse than me. so it must be ok.

any Jason Bourne can check out any Nala's profile.

stop scaring me!

I know it was written way up there, but Re: Raagapella. My brother is in that group and they recently had a couple concerts with A. R. Rahman and Sukhwinder Singh, so they're doing all right. As far as them vs. Penn Masala, I haven't heard too much of Penn Masala so I can't compare them, but I think Raagapella does a pretty good job. Some of their stuff is on youtube so you can check that out

Arjun - joint concerts with A.R. Rahman and Sukhwinder Singh?! goddamn...

Also I find the exchange between Nala and Jason Bourne to be very revealing how different the college social scene is for male and female desi(s).

not really. i've met a lot of my brown male friends at college (including my boyfriend), and none of them are stalkers. they're normal. i guess this does depend on where you go to school and where the general student body is from/where the desis are from though. but only slightly so.

as for Jason's case, y'all are treating him like an outcast for speaking out his mind. what he says is normal behavior among guys ..in US and more so in India. girlies, if that freaks u out, hear this - there is a very distinct possibility that ur dear bhaiya or lovey-dovey bf/hubby has done the same at some point of time. Yes - the level of poking varies from person to person.

get real!

um, no. i'm aware that lots of people look at strangers' profiles, walls, pictures, etc. - but i have never known anyone pathetic enough to 1) look up facebook groups to find out who the supposedly hottest girls on campus were (instead of using his own eyes and/or dick), 2) message and poke complete strangers, or 3) literally stalk girls (as in the case of Jason Bourne's friends.)

is stalking inherently creepy? why should j-bourne be criticized for being mesmerized by a pretty face? back in college i was stalked. it didn't really bother me and i actually wouldve liked it if the girl was cute.

umm, agreed with Camille... I think you seriously misunderstand what 'stalking' is, and how scary it can really be. Good on you for being able to shrug off your own 'stalker,' but um, again, I think you really don't understand it if you're hoping that the girl had been cute instead.

yes, it was fun. i went to get popcorn to settle in and read some more, but apparently Jason Bourne has left the thread. pch! somebody else please say something outrageous so we can disagree with you ... ha ha, ok, just kidding. back to work.

you're right, why do i bother... oh right, because i'm home for break and bored out of my mind. maybe i should be spending more time on facebook instead.

Serious posts about the political crisis in Pakistan ==> very few comments

Funny YouTube videos ==> link from Andrew Leonard at Salon.com

Oh well. Guess that's how the Internet works.

I doubt if it's the Internet. It's us humans and what (we think) touches us more directly.

Qualification: Internet does play some part in the direction taken by a "conversation."

Related: here is my favourite facebook-stalking joke.

not really. i've met a lot of my brown male friends at college (including my boyfriend), and none of them are stalkers. they're normal. i guess this does depend on where you go to school and where the general student body is from/where the desis are from though. but only slightly so.

Yes Nala exactly you're proving a point to me which I didn't actually articulate in the earlier comment. There are cliques of different levels of social hierarchy in the desi college scene.

15 years ago, people of brown color were given the benefit of the doubt in meeting, something I mentioned in this thread during another post. Further back, I remember my parents getting excited about meeting other Indians when we first moved to DC Metro area in 1980.

Of course, you're referring to the act of un-solicited attention from males on Facebook. It's still interesting that it's beginning to exhibit the more complex nature of person to person social interactions with sub-divisions into smaller groups.

As for your boyfriend and male friends, I'm sure they don't masturbate either. :)

umm, agreed with Camille... I think you seriously misunderstand what 'stalking' is, and how scary it can really be.

I just think he had used the wrong word.

Lion, they don't masturbate for the fear of losing their eyes :)

Also I think 'facebook stalking' kinda waters down what stalking really is

I think we were pretty harsh on Jason here, some people like to meet new people in life , some don't.
Thats the case with social networks as well. I frequently scrap strangers on Orkut if i like a
good photo they've put , or something funny they've written in their profile. Though it helps
to find a statement such as 'like to make friends' in their profile.Also my scraps are genuine
messages of appreciation/questions rather than just friend requests.

This i don't consider stalking. Going on & googling about them would be stalking ?

This i don't consider stalking. Going on & googling about them would be stalking

Stalking implies contact, whether through emails, letters, verbal, etc... these "pokes" or whatever, are borderline. Everything else is surely wasted effort, but not stalking.

HMF:

"Everything else is surely wasted effort"

Are you sure about that? :)

once, someone used google to find out who "puli" was, and got in touch with me off line...

Hilarious!

Sad thing is, that is really the TRUE FACE of modern day youth.

It's happening people. Aren't you glad you're past 30?

Hilarious!

Sad thing is, that is really the TRUE FACE of modern day youth.

It's happening people. Aren't you glad you're past 30?

hey, HEY! no hating on 20 something, and something teen mutaneers.

People, I don't think Jason Bourne is "stalking" in the traditional creepy sense. He and his friend just checked out people on Facebook and attempted to see them in real life. What is the difference between that and seeing some cute guy you like in class or wherever and then following him discreetly for a few minutes to see where he hangs out so that you can "accidently" bump into him at some later point in time and hopefully strike up a conversation to get to know him more?

What is Facebook for if not for meeting people?

That being said, I'm still glad I'm in my 30's.

As for your boyfriend and male friends, I'm sure they don't masturbate either. :)

masturbation is normal. messaging girls you have no connection to through facebook or standing outside their place of residence watching them--why, hoping that they'll fall at your feet and fawn all over you?--is not.

though i have to admit, my first reaction when we see the vaseline bit in the linked video was, "ew!" that was the merging of normal and creepy. :P

What is Facebook for if not for meeting people?

To keep in touch with people you already know. If you want to meet people for romantic interests, I'd recommend match.com or shaadi.com.

and I don't think you should underestimate Facebook/youth. I get like 5 million invitations to various political-themed events/groups every day (e.g. the show your solidarity with the Jena Six by wearing black day, the show your solidarity with the monks in Burma by wearing red day, etc.). And the Posted Items and Messaging features make it pretty easy to get a message out, and the Events feature makes it easier to organize protests or whatevs.

If Facebook is only for keeping in touch with people you already know and for informing each other of noble events, then why the "A-list" for hotties and such?

Sorry, I don't buy it. Like most internet connects, the underlying theme is "hooking up" with someone.

Well considering that you're in your 30s and I'm in college (the demographic that Facebook was originally created for), I apparently have some explaining to do...

The hotties list that Jason Bourne mentions are facebook groups found within most school networks, stuff like '10s of '10' or some shit like that. Unless group membership must be approved by the creator (rare), mostly anyone can join these groups. So consequently most of these groups are full of people who think they're h0t shit (regardless of whether they actually are or not), and there are many hot people who are NOT in such groups because they think they're just kind of dumb.

I really don't think the underlying theme of Facebook is 'hooking up.' I think that for nearly all the college students I know, it's really actually keeping in touch with friends, whether through writing on each other's walls, inviting each other to events, putting up photo albums, etc.

I really don't think the underlying theme of Facebook is 'hooking up.'

It really doesn't matter what you think the underlying theme of Facebook, or who the original demographic is for. It's obvious the demographic changed by so many companies blocking the site altogether.

As far as the underlying theme, it's really for the inventors to say, and they pretty much want anyone to use it for whatever they want, just as long as they use it. and it runs the gamut.

What is the difference between that and seeing some cute guy you like in class or wherever and then following him discreetly for a few minutes to see where he hangs out so that you can "accidently" bump into him at some later point in time

There is no difference, most women will turn hypocrite and try to argue out some difference, when none truly exists.

I think its interesting that a younger user such as nala has a fixed notion of facebook usage vs 'someone in their 30s' when most VCs believe the opposite is true; early adopters generally being more adventurous.

HMF- yeah the demographics have changed, but I was talking about within the context of a college campus, since 'Jason Bourne' is an undergrad too. My point was, while all college students I know may use facebook to strengthen relationships with people they only tangentially know (like, hey! you're in my French class), no one uses it to hit on complete strangers. also, i've lurked on SM for a while so i'm familiar with how you think women are hypocrites, and my break ends today so i'd rather not get into this argument. All I'll say is, it's generally women's past experiences that make them wary of men staring at them from afar or following them up close.

Most guys browsing facebook don't stop at just the face.. and this is where the problem lies.

I think its interesting that a younger user such as nala has a fixed notion of facebook usage vs 'someone in their 30s' when most VCs believe the opposite is true; early adopters generally being more adventurous.

coincidentally, i once heard the facebook founder say he only hires young people, apparently unaware of anti-discrimination laws. he argued they are simply smarter, more creative, and easier to train. and he mentioned something about all the chess champions being young and great scientists, writers, etc doing their best work in their 20's.

but i have noticed, in the VC world, old people acting young: learning a new language, going back to school in their 40's, taking painting lessons, etc...in an attempt to stave off the dementia. also dressing young. no suits. its a quirky world.

like, hey! you're in my French class

well...thinking about how i used to think in college, my underlying reason to "getting to know someone i already know tangentially" like "hey, your in my french class" was

"hey your in my french class" (and kinda h0t) "lets get to know each other"

"but i have noticed, in the VC world, old people acting young: learning a new language, going back to school in their 40's, taking painting lessons, etc...in an attempt to stave off the dementia. also dressing young. no suits. its a quirky world"

My uncle's a partner at Kleiner Perkins the stories I could tell :)...

My point was, while all college students I know may use facebook to strengthen relationships with people they only tangentially know (like, hey! you're in my French class), no one uses it to hit on complete strangers

That's all well and good, but if someone were to do it for that purpose, it's no different than Tara's female real-life example of doing the same thing.

My uncle's a partner at Kleiner Perkins the stories I could tell :)...

spooky, i just got off the phone with them and am in the middle of an e-mail to them (not a desi partner though).

but i have noticed, in the VC world, old people acting young: learning a new language, going back to school in their 40's, taking painting lessons, etc...in an attempt to stave off the dementia. also dressing young. no suits. its a quirky world.

What does "VC" mean?

What does "VC" mean?

for everyone else it means "venture capitalist". for me it means "viet cong"

What does "VC" mean?

virile communists

What does "VC" mean?

vasectomy clippers

for everyone else it means "venture capitalist". for me it means "viet cong"

spooky again. shouldn't you be dialing for $$'s puli

vaseline consumers

spooky again. shouldn't you be dialing for $$'s puli

if i did what i was supposed to, i would never be on SM. couldnt let that happen.

if i did what i was supposed to, i would never be on SM. couldnt let that happen.

and...if i wasnt on SM, i couldnt "stalk" you all...

puli quotes himself in 120. commenturbation.

but i have noticed, in the VC world, old people acting young: learning a new language, going back to school in their 40's, taking painting lessons, etc...in an attempt to stave off the dementia. also dressing young. no suits. its a quirky world.

Is this really "acting young" or just plain living life?

I always find it odd when I visit family in India that most of the 35 year olds carry on as if they are 60+. No life outside of work and home, work and home. For many of the women it's just home, home, home. It's as if the very essence of vitality has been zapped right out of them. They are always perplexed by why I want to do and experience so much when I'm there.

"spooky, i just got off the phone with them and am in the middle of an e-mail to them (not a desi partner though)."

Do what you can for the poor guys :)...I know as of late summer Benchmark was kicking their ass a bit.

puli quotes himself in 120. commenturbation.

commenturbation. hard for others to watch. fun for me. completely natural.

Is this really "acting young" or just plain living life?

yes, its living life. and its important to do these seemingly trivial things as one gets older, ie learning things that don't necessarily have a practical value. it keeps the mind active. VC's understand this since the job entails destroying old companies who cannot think out of their box and capturing their market.

which is why the profile look like this. you won't see that at jpmorgan.

which is why the profile look like this. you won't see that at jpmorgan.

ahh...the life. i feel like the WAMU bankers box.

sorry to interrupt the wanksteration, but...

My point was, while all college students I know may use facebook to strengthen relationships with people they only tangentially know (like, hey! you're in my French class), no one uses it to hit on complete strangers

That's all well and good, but if someone were to do it for that purpose, it's no different than Tara's female real-life example of doing the same thing.

just to clarify... do you mean that tara's female real-life example is similar to using facebook to 'strengthen relationships with people they only tangentially know' or to 'hit on complete strangers' (which is what JB was doing)? if it's the former, i kind of agree, and only 'kind of' because i don't think that any of these examples are EXACTLY the same as each other.

apparently y'all think i came down too hard on JB. well i guess i can't know how 'creepy' his messages to these girls really were, but obviously they were put off by whatever he said. i get the sense that it has more to do with JB not knowing how to maneuver that well socially than with malice (though i do think his comments on this thread were enlightening of his immaturity, and i'm not really surprised that girls are put off by him if he can't even appear to seem like he's approaching them for a reason other than just thinking they're hot and wanting to get laid). what put me off most though, was his sense of entitlement, like he's entitled to 'get' lots of hot young white girls, and anyone else is 'washed up.'

was his sense of entitlement, like he's entitled to 'get' lots of hot young white girls, and anyone else is 'washed up.'

d*mn it. i am ENTITLED to nubile whyte chyx! i am also ENTITLED to throngs of adoring fans. *puli grumbls and gets back to his loosery job*

do you mean that tara's female real-life example is similar to using facebook to 'strengthen relationships with people they only tangentially know' or to 'hit on complete strangers'

It could be either, it's a fine line really. If some chick sees a cute guy on campus, or in class, you could argue they are complete strangers, or tangentially know each other, just by virtue of being in the same class or school, right?

(though i do think his comments on this thread were enlightening of his immaturity, and i'm not really surprised that girls are put off by him if he can't even appear to seem like he's approaching them for a reason other than just thinking they're hot and wanting to get laid

Are you suggesting that men lie about their intentions when dealing with women? Whatever happened to being honest? whatever happened to being yourself? Are you suggesting men cloak their intentions?

stalking is wrong. all you have to do, in order to aviod being a stalker, is follow these simple 3 rules:

1. Be handsome
2. Be succesful
3. Do not be unattractive

I think it just snowed in hell.

stalking is wrong. all you have to do, in order to aviod being a stalker, is follow these simple 3 rules:

1. Be handsome
2. Be succesful
3. Do not be unattractive

Is somebody drinking the Pity Whine today? We really would be in trouble, however, if all the unattractive failures in the world were actively stalking women. Thankfully, this isn't the case. We do, however, have an excess of people who blame subjectively delineated categories for their failures with potential partners. Much like the average person will blame the economy for their fiscal woes.

what upsets me most about this is that you've taken on the handle 'Jason Bourne.' The real Jason Bourne wouldn't resort to such lowly, creepy tactics.

this is hilarious. i wonder what james bond and george smiley are going to say about jason bourne when they meet at the pub tonight.

think it just snowed in hell.

Andrea Dworkin is shivering

Are all botanists stalkers?

are all the hedge fund guys into bondage?

*shrugs* I didn't find it humorous at all. But on the upside it was nice to hear Pennmasala again.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dHi-ZcvFV_0

Are you suggesting that men lie about their intentions when dealing with women? Whatever happened to being honest? whatever happened to being yourself? Are you suggesting men cloak their intentions?

HMF- I've never said any of the bolded, so I don't understand your faux indignation. I can't speak for other female SM commenters or other women in general, but I tend to just call it like I see it. I'm not suggesting that men lie about their intentions... I'm just saying that obviously there's a reason why 'Jason Bourne' isn't getting any!! Also, there's a difference between being honest and going up to a girl and saying 'I want to fuck you and that's it.' I don't think I'm qualified to really discuss this 'how men approach women' thing anyway, since I've never really 'dated'-all my relationships have been friendships that turned into something else, and most college kids don't really date anyway I think. I've derailed the thread enough, so I'm going to bow out. I'm not even going to touch what Manju said, but I'm glad HMF & Manju found something to finally agree on!

i wonder what james bond and george smiley are going to say about jason bourne when they meet at the pub tonight.

well i don't know about george smiley, but i bet james bond thinks that jason bourne is an idiot for actually spending his time not relying on hi-tech gadgets and actually being a good spy, instead of bedding whoever he sees. ...hm, maybe jason bourne and SM's 'Jason Bourne' do have something in common after all.

For the record, I'm with nala on this one. Maybe we're in the same general demographic, maybe we're not. There is a difference between wanting to get to know someone you've MET face-to-face versus someone you have never met save by looking them up on the internet. I definitely know guys who had seen a girl in a neighboring dorm and then wanted to "bump into" them by hanging around where they lived. In my opinion, that absolutely toed the border of "stalking" as far as I'm concerned.

I also think folks are using a really inappropriate sense of the word "stalk." Stalking is not following a girl around like a puppy, it is really severe and shouldn't be trivialized so off-handedly.

so, this girl i like said on facebook that she loved stockings, and was looking for someone who would pique her interests. but she's a bad speller, so i figure all she wants is for me to stare into her window when she changes her clothes, snoop on her e-mail, and follow her all over the place. whaddya know, she gets all upset and sics the cops on me. if she didn't want it, why did she put it on her profile just for me to see?

signed,
austin powers

She knows someone who works for facebook.

so, do facebook employees poke members they like, just look them up and find them in IRL (yes, i'm with it), or just date other employees?

Thanks for the link, Amardeep! Haha its so true, I searched my university facebook groups for "perfect 10's" "The A-list" "Hottest girls at __ university"...hoping I would bump into one of those chicks on campus or in class (it never happened). I began poking and messaging these random hot girls, when I saw some of them on campus (I was recognized due to my profile picture and low student population of brown guys), I got cold stares and weird looks from 90% of them. I had to deactivate my facebook account and keep on the downlow for a while

WHOA! I thought such people only existed in the piss-take world of youtube videos...weird that people would actually admit to being a Facebook Stalker in a public forum.

Jason Bourne, glad you're at a university far far away...

I think that secretly though for some girls, not being considered in the 'Uni's Hottest chix' etc lists would be a mild disappointment even though they are objectifying and shallow, kind of like the Bridget Jones-esque disappointment when walking past a construction site and no one wolf whistles...

according to this video, I have 5 Facebook stalker invites. Although the uber-sad thing is that they don't even go to uni in the same country, so the hours they spend scouring for people to add...eugh.

question, whats one to do if they find someone attractive but have no pretext other than that to introduce themselves? isnt it normal to try and find out a little about that person so that you have a better chance of bumping into them and making something happen? jason bourne wasn't so creepy and stalkerish as much as he just lacks game. poking random "hot" girls with no pretext online is just hopeless.
btw, my stalker was the real deal and didn't just follow me around like a puppy. there were numerous phone calls where no one spoke on the other line. literal stalking from a distance when i was unaware of her presence, and supposedly she'd found a photo of me and kept it. she even had some morbid ritual wherein she would play "our" song and talk to me. i found out later that this went on for years, meanwhile i had barely spoken three sentences to this person ever. all i'm sayin is that if i were attracted to this person, i may have given it a chance. danger is the spice of life. i would've carried pepper spray and only accepted drinks i ordered myself..

Nala:

your statement says:

"and i'm not really surprised that girls are put off by him if he can't even appear to seem like he's approaching them for a reason other than just thinking they're hot"

to me, this reads you believe "appearing to seem" a certain way is more beneficial than being who you actually are. This is very close to cloaking one's intentions, which is a certin level of dishonesty. is it not?

"I'm just saying that obviously there's a reason why 'Jason Bourne' isn't getting any!!"

See comment #130.

Also, there's a difference between being honest and going up to a girl and saying 'I want to fuck you and that's it.'

The two are uncorrelated. However, the former might entail the latter, when that is the case you are indeed suggesting the male shouldn't be honest.

Camille et al,

For the record, I'm with nala on this one. Maybe we're in the same general demographic, maybe we're not. There is a difference between wanting to get to know someone you've MET face-to-face versus someone you have never met save by looking them up on the internet. I definitely know guys who had seen a girl in a neighboring dorm and then wanted to "bump into" them by hanging around where they lived. In my opinion, that absolutely toed the border of "stalking" as far as I'm concerned.

I know someone exactly like this and he is a pest. He chats innocently to unsuspecting girls and then asks them out a number of times, not taking 'no' for an answer. Often he will happen to see a girl he thinks is attractive, but whom he has never met, and start following her around and asking her out. He did this to a couple of friends of mine as well. One girl who used to be his lab partner and whom he kept asking out again and again even though she made it clear she wasn't interested. I finally had to rescue her by making her my lab partner instead, so she wouldn't be partnered with him again. Then there was another whom he started following around during our college study trip, to a point that a few tall tough mates had to intervene to make him stop. He was and still is under the delusion that she reciprocated his 'feelings'. The guy has no social skills, lives at home, is almost 30 and has been a student for 7 or 8 years, but never even got his first-year degree.

Point being, there is nothing 'charming' about this behaviour or the Facebook equivalent. I bet that if girls are put off by this 'Jason Bourne' character on this thread he really isn't a far cry from the person I just described above. I find it quite disturbing that some folks(not just men) think such a person is indulging in harmless fun and women who find it upsetting are merely being 'hypocritical'.

I must confess that I'm simultaneously spooked and disarmed, nala of comments 3, 5, 8, 24, 25, 27, 30, 37, 46, 81, 83, 84, 85, 100, 101, 103, 106, 127,and 138 :-) The spookiness lies in that you sound sooooooo young, especially when you say this (emphases mine):

i guess this does depend on where you go to school and where the general student body is from/where the desis are from though. but only slightly so . . .

and this:

um, no. i'm aware that lots of people look at strangers' profiles, walls, pictures, etc. - but i have never known anyone pathetic enough to 1) look up facebook groups to find out who the supposedly hottest girls on campus were (instead of using his own eyes and/or dick) . . .

They remind me of myself when I was 18 (with the subtle difference that re the prospect of being stalked by a girl in college, I used to be terrified by whether I'd be able to say no to showing her my physics homework). I hope you will, in the years to come, retain your zest for commenting. But I also hope that, over time, you will be a mite slower to judge!!

As for what motivates the last, admittedly unsolicited, bit of advice (and this is to all readers of this thread): has it occurred to anyone else that comment #1 is Jason Bourne's idea of a good joke. (S)He has yanked our collective chains, and might at this very moment be sitting back with his(her) favourite cup of coffee and savouring the effect. . . !

The guy has no social skills, lives at home, is almost 30 and has been a student for 7 or 8 years, but never even got his first-year degree.

this guy is horrible. he broke the second rule of stalking.

1. Be handsome 2. Be succesful 3. Do not be unattractive

Concerning:

he broke the second rule of stalking.

if only Manju (at #130) had called them "rules" The Three Laws of Stalking (as in The Three Laws of Robotics), he'd have by now been famous ;-) Maybe there's still time . . .

He chats innocently to unsuspecting girls and then asks them out a number of times, not taking 'no' for an answer. Often he will happen to see a girl he thinks is attractive, but whom he has never met, and start following her around and asking her out.

Ah but Meena, fem-aggeration strikes again!

Where did Jason Bourne say anything about following, excessive hankering, obsessing, all the things you described here? Notice how you effortlessly

graft onto this:

Thanks for the link, Amardeep! Haha its so true, I searched my university facebook groups for "perfect 10's" "The A-list" "Hottest girls at __ university"...hoping I would bump into one of those chicks on campus or in class

with being a "pest" and "not taking no for an answer"

And for the record, the hypocrisy charge was for anyone who castigated this facebook behavior, but found no harm in a girl "strategically" situating herself to be near someone she's finds attractive, even if she's only seen him "tangentially" which in my book constitues being a stranger.

I agree the facebook "stalking" described by JB is useless, but by no means harmful or threatening.

I would like to state for the record, that I am stalking everyone on SM. Puli is EVERYWHERE.

the hypocrisy charge was for anyone who castigated this facebook behavior, but found no harm in a girl "strategically" situating herself to be near someone she's finds attractive, even if she's only seen him "tangentially" which in my book constitues being a stranger.

You assume that men and women are

1) endowed with similar observational skills
2) respond to the same signals
3) those skills and receptors are normally distributed for both sexes
4) there exists a mono-cultural of norms

...to which I say, NOT! Not every inanimate object needs to be hit with your Hypocrisy Hammer.

How do I assume any of those? What I do assume is that we should live in a society that treats human beings equally. If you disagree with that at a substantive level, then I can see your quibble.

As for your list:

1,2,3 aren't really of any relevance. How do difference of signals and relative observational skills relate to the use of a computer to facilitate 'bumping into' or just plain seeing someone in class?

and 4 is too vague a statement to have any meaning 'mono cultural of norms'?

For the record, I'm with nala on this one. Maybe we're in the same general demographic, maybe we're not. There is a difference between wanting to get to know someone you've MET face-to-face versus someone you have never met save by looking them up on the internet. I definitely know guys who had seen a girl in a neighboring dorm and then wanted to "bump into" them by hanging around where they lived. In my opinion, that absolutely toed the border of "stalking" as far as I'm concerned.

In my opinion that is just the pre-internet-days style of approaching someone you are too shy to go up to directly and introduce yourself, so you make it look like you "bumped into" them and then strike up a conversation. I've done it a few times in my awkward puberty days. It worked so I carred it into my teens. Sure it seems silly now, what with technology being able to bring people in contact with one another in a more "efficient" way, but whatever, it is still a way for shy people to approach their crushes.

Hey puliogre and manju, get a frickin life already. How many one line posts are you two losers gonna inflict on us?

who has less of a life, the guy that posts 1 line comments, or the guy who posts a 1 liner complaining about 1 liners?

Woulda been funny if the post was:

"Hey puliogre and manju, get a frickin life already. How many one line posts are you two losers gonna inflict on
us?"

I agree the facebook "stalking" described by JB is useless, but by no means harmful or threatening.

why don't we ask the girls who he sends messages to and 'pokes,' or the girls who his friends trail and stare at how they feel?

/last comment, for real

The guy has no social skills, lives at home, is almost 30 and has been a student for 7 or 8 years, but never even got his first-year degree.

Living at home at the age of 30 is not unusual for desis, and in India it is the norm for a single daughter to live at home till marriage and for the the son of the family to live at home for his whole life, bringing his bride to live with her in-laws. It seems odd to us outside of India, but it's a cultural norm there that is often carried over into other countries/cultures. This may or may not also contribute to the lack of social skills in other arenas. The student for 7 or 8 years thing though is odd for a desi.

The student for 7 or 8 years thing though is odd for a desi

Unless he was a PhD or med student, or some other type of graduate student.

why don't we ask the girls who he sends messages to and 'pokes,' or the girls who his friends trail and stare at how they feel

I feel like I've stumbled on the fem-aggeration olympics. When did I ever mention the friend who trails? As for the pokes, how is it any different than a girl accidentally bumping into?

As for the pokes, how is it any different than a girl accidentally bumping into?

I would like to state for the record, that I am stalking everyone on SM. Puli is EVERYWHERE.

for the rahul fans, "poke me on facebook"=what the kids are calling it these days.

commenturbation.

@121 Manju: hehehehe. who invented this word? heheheheheh.

OH... MY... GOD there are 100+ comments about me!

Nala - Please leave me alone. Fantasizing about me in this manner is...a little creepy...and stalkerish. I know you secretly want me ;).

@121 Manju: hehehehe. who invented this word? heheheheheh.

its mine! i even googled to check, and nothing came up. if there are any IP lawyers out there, please help me make a buck off this. (does anyone remember kobsayahi's brilliant "frontlash" btw)

ok one last comment, to defend my honor:

HMF, I want to agree with you, but you make it so hard to do. I quoted what you wrote to just point out that perhaps we should ask the girls who are on the receiving end of JB and his friends' attentions if they feel threatened. There have been comments on this thread along the lines of, 'It doesn't seem creepy to me, so it's not creepy,' notably #99 and the guy who asked if stalking is inherently creepy. I just feel like that kind of attitude invalidates other people's experiences. I don't really have the patience to discuss this with you anymore (and I am *so* tempted to get snippier, but I get the feeling that would just be thrown back into my face as a 'fem-aggeration,' so I won't).

JB - You're only kind of right, I secretly want Matt Damon as Jason Bourne.
p.s. Please don't flatter yourself by thinking that I 'fantasize' about you simply because I'm discussing something that you said on an online forum.

its mine! i even googled to check, and nothing came up. if there are any IP lawyers out there, please help me make a buck off this.

i don't know any IP lawyers, but bookmark this page so that you can quote it as your 'prior art' and sue anyone else who tries to use it without royalty. :)

puli, are you getting into hedge funds soon? are you into bondage? if so, poke me on facebook (if you know what i'm sayin'). for the rahul fans, "poke me on facebook"=what the kids are calling it these days.

i used to be anti-networking sites. now, i just HAVE to get facebook...

Its a shame that desi girls are so damn fugly that desi guys have to lust after white girls to the point of stalking. Innit?

Date White, Marry Desi - simple.

I can date/f*ck a white/asian girl without worry of 'indian girl drama' or family reputation. I can get Desi girls but I choose not to. Ok folks, I must study and work now.

*hides in bombshell*

ask the girls who are on the receiving end of JB and his friends' attentions if they feel threatened.

and riders on the NYC subway might feel threatened by the guy wearing a turban, but that doesn't necessarily make him threatening. Assessing threat in any sphere, cannot simply be done by "does so and so feel threatened" although, it's a fair question to ask, but cannot be taken as the sole indicator.

but I get the feeling that would just be thrown back into my face as a 'fem-aggeration,'

are you denying that you added the "friends trailing/stalking" when I had made no reference to it whatsoever?

HMF, I want to agree with you, but you make it so hard to do.

What can I say? I keep it real.

I can get Desi girls but I choose not to

But of course you dont, because they unfortunately are not blessed with the white skin and pink nipples that drive desi guys to distraction ( and stalking).

Its a shame that desi girls are so damn fugly that desi guys have to lust after white girls to the point of stalking. Innit?

So I guess that's why all the white and black men I know are crazy for desi girls? Because they are so fugly?

You might want to consider that perhaps the desi girls are not interested in your type, and that is why you are so bitter.

I can date/f*ck a white/asian girl without worry of 'indian girl drama' or family reputation. I can get Desi girls but I choose not to. Ok folks, I must study and work now.

And that's one of the reasons many of us desi girls date white or black, not brown, too avoid all that Desi Hungama. Not to mentione size (black) and skills (white).

ok one last comment:

But of course you dont, because they unfortunately are not blessed with the white skin and pink nipples that drive desi guys to distraction ( and stalking).

all brown people must worship white skin and pink nips.

So I guess that's why all the white and black men I know are crazy for desi girls? Because they are so fugly?

You might want to consider that perhaps the desi girls are not interested in your type, and that is why you are so bitter

Edit: hot white girls are not interested in my type, that is why i am so bitter. i love desi girls as friends in college, but i would never date them.

And that's one of the reasons many of us desi girls date white or black, not brown, too avoid all that Desi Hungama. Not to mentione size (black) and skills (white).

these type of actions/comments are the reason why ABD guys go to India for a wife. American women, in general, are messed up in the head.

#141 dravidian lurker said

so, do facebook employees poke members they like, just look them up and find them in IRL (yes, i'm with it), or just date other employees?

haha, actually she did ask him that and he said that they are not supposed to.. If they do or don't, is entirely up to debate.

This thread will reach 200+ comments after #166 and #171. Ok, I must study.

and riders on the NYC subway might feel threatened by the guy wearing a turban, but that doesn't necessarily make him threatening. Assessing threat in any sphere, cannot simply be done by "does so and so feel threatened" although, it's a fair question to ask, but cannot be taken as the sole indicator.

sorry, but that is completely different. JB and his friends actively made contact with the girls, whereas a guy in a turban is simply just there. I think the 'it's not creepy because I say it's not' attitude is more similar to 'it's not racist because I'm not offended.'

are you denying that you added the "friends trailing/stalking" when I had made no reference to it whatsoever?

read what i said again. i wasn't responding to you only, but to the 'it's not creepy because I say it's not' attitude. i'm not specifically accusing you of anything. except for...

What can I say? I keep it real.

...making me 'LOL' with this.

also, i'm convinced by now that JB is a troll.

also, i'm convinced by now that JB is a troll.

leave me alone

all brown people must worship white skin and pink nips.

Well said Jason. Your attitude is admirable. Whites are indeed superior to desis aesthetically (and in most other ways too) and deserve to be worshipped.

white girls are not interested in my type, that is why i am so bitter

Well you cant really blame them for not finding desi guys attractive. Can you?

these type of actions/comments are the reason why ABD guys go to India for a wife

Come on Jason, you know why desi guys go to the desh for a wife. Any desi living abroad is a catch in the marriage market there and has the pick of the litter. White girls may consider you too fugly and dorky but you and I know that in India most any girl would jump at the opportunity to be your wife and get a green card to paradise. Am I right or what?

nala et al, now you can establish your supremacy over the identities of the bournes of this world. puli, still hot on all those networking sites?

read what i said again. i wasn't responding to you only

you quoted me, then asked a question. If you included the example of the friends "stalking" then you shouldn't have responded to me at all. That's the heart of your exaggeration, somehow taking my statement and conflating it with an outright dismissal of anyone who feels threatened in any situation.

but to the 'it's not creepy because I say it's not' attitude.

likewise, the statement "it is creepy, because I say it is" is equally nonsensical. books will be written on how real I keep it.

dravidian lurker - hee, that article (and accompanying evil-looking mug) cracked me up. i tend not to add many fb applications though, so i think i'll have to pass.

i yearn for the good old innocent days when fb used to mean f*** buddy.

but you and I know that in India most any girl would jump at the opportunity to be your wife and get a green card to paradise. Am I right or what?

maybe 20 years back, but not anymore.

HMF- i don't really want to argue over petty details. peace out.

maybe 20 years back, but not anymore.

I agree, it's true. My parents sadly informed me. :'( I guess I have to join JB and poke strangers on fb.

these type of actions/comments are the reason why ABD guys go to India for a wife. American women, in general, are messed up in the head.

So what you are saying is that desi guys go back to India for a wife because they can't deal with women who know what they want and are vocal about it? Because women in India will "settle" quietly for a less than ordinary sex life, whereas American born women are apt to vocalize their dissatisfaction and hurt the male ego?

If you have such a low opinion of white American women, then why are you so desperate to date them?

If you have such a high opinion of Indian women (or other non-American women) then why not be desperate to date them?

If you prefer non-American women, no problem, that is no different than my friends preferring non-desi men, however even my friends do not stereotype all desi men as being the same and while doing so, express a desperate desire to date/bed them.

will the bourne-watabe rivalry match the halcyon days of hmf-manju? bets are ON!

And that's one of the reasons many of us desi girls date white or black, not brown, too avoid all that Desi Hungama. Not to mentione size (black) and skills (white).

By the way JB, when I wrote that above I had DESI girls in mind, both American born and those who are Desh born and relocate here later in life. We have our calendars full so if you and Bollyhood think we're too fugly or too dramatic to date, believe me, that doesn't mean we are sitting home Saturday nights. And guess what? We are NOT returning to India to find husbands. Any guesses why?

If you have such a low opinion of white American women, then why are you so desperate to date them?

Sexy time!

-Borat

If you have such a high opinion of Indian women (or other non-American women) then why not be desperate to date them?

I respect them. This site says it all: http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Page19.htm

We are NOT returning to India to find husbands. Any guesses why?

Umm... perhaps no DBD wants a Desi girl who's been with a black guy?

"Umm... perhaps no DBD wants a Desi girl who's been with a black guy?"

"Damn. That's f*cked up"
-Dave Chappelle.

here are what the eyes of all-American valley girls look like. As you can see, they look vacant, conceited, plastic, empty, and in love with money and illusion.

So why on earth do you shamelessly drool over these 'vacant, conceited, plastic, empty' girls and feel so bitter that they find you repulsive???????????

How about posting your own pic so that we can all see what the eyes of a social misfit desi stalker look like?

HMF- i don't really want to argue over petty details. peace out.

uhh. yeah. because the difference between a facebook poke and showing up at your apartment unnannounced is like, well, the same thing, right?

oh fucking hell. HMF, you really really make it hard for me to like you. by 'petty details' I meant going back-and-forth over shit like 'you misquoted me' and 'no i didn't i meant it within a different context.' and no, a facebook poke is not the same thing as showing up at someone's apartment unannounced. wtf do you want me to say?

HMF, you really really make it hard for me to like you.

didnt know you were tryin'

by 'petty details' I meant going back-and-forth over shit like 'you misquoted me' and 'no i didn't i meant it within a different context.' and no, a facebook poke is not the same thing as showing up at someone's apartment unannounced. wtf do you want me to say?

Well, fem-aggerations happen quite a bit. Just say that I ...

We are NOT returning to India to find husbands. Any guesses why?

Umm... perhaps no DBD wants a Desi girl who's been with a black guy?

I see what you mean. If I were a desi guy like JB I wouldn't want to be compared to a previous black lover either, if you know what I mean. LOL.

Why? Why must there be the mention of the pink nips in every post? Blah.

i yearn for the good old innocent days when nips used to mean the stealthy gulps from the hip flask during the middle of the work day.

didnt know you were tryin'

I don't know many desis (even among politically liberal ones) who will recognize that things like 'institutional racism' and 'white privilege' exist. Which is why your hostility is disarming.

I don't know many desis (even among politically liberal ones) who will recognize that things like 'institutional racism' and 'white privilege' exist.

Eh. its hard when so many are enrolled in university of texas.

university of texas?

university of texas?

aww, come on, don't you know all graduates of the ut system are racists? you must be in the pay of the man, if you are not the man yourself.

well didn't 'Where's the Party Yaar' take place at UT-Austin?

(can't believe I've admitted to watching that movie)

Let's all nip it in the bud, shall we?

Sorry. Had to.

Nala, its Uncle Tom goddammit! This is your HMF moment...letting a thief give directions to your own bathroom.

oh fucking hell. HMF, you really really make it hard for me to like you. by 'petty details' I meant going back-and-forth over shit like 'you misquoted me' and 'no i didn't i meant it within a different context.' and no, a facebook poke is not the same thing as showing up at someone's apartment unannounced. wtf do you want me to say?

does anybody feel that the esteemed HMF is rapidly approaching PG (pardesi gori) status?

You can see in their eyes that they are cultured, soulful, and have a warm inviting look on their faces.

what, like the warm, honest gaze of golden retrievers or the aesthetically pleasing curve of a halibut peeper?

nip privilege really raises its head when its nippy outside.

You know, Nala...when you first criticized JB, I thought you were being a bit harsh, a bit naive about the nature of guys. But now I know you have highly attuned creep radar. Respeck.

well didn't 'Where's the Party Yaar' take place at UT-Austin?

(can't believe I've admitted to watching that movie)

I also did 'watch' that movie. Although there were many Harold & Kumar inducements involved. And i think it was centered around a UT campus.

I also did 'watch' that movie. Although there were many Harold & Kumar inducements involved. And i think it was centered around a UT campus.

hahaha.... i'm curious, do you talk like this when you're stoned?

And apparently it was the University of Houston.

You can see in their eyes that they are cultured, soulful, and have a warm inviting look on their faces.

what, like the warm, honest gaze of golden retrievers or the aesthetically pleasing curve of a halibut peeper?

No, like the glaze of financially challenged women inviting wealthy North American or Western European men into their arm$.

JB obviously doesn't get that these sites are created and geared for a certain "type" of man. $$$$$

The Phillipino sites have no qualms in stating EXACTLY $$$ what they are looking for in a man, from a "particular" region of the world. JB would have more luck with those plastic Valley girls he complains about. They at least have their own money and don't need a North American or Western European man. Note: South American or Eastern European men not apply.

I'm seriously becoming a fan of nala and Tara Watabe (oh hey Tara it's FILIPINO not PHILLIPINO unless you're referring to something else... how do i know? on account that I am one hehhe... seriously, i'm not into how much $$$ .. i'm more like "is he a troll??")

hahaha.... i'm curious, do you talk like this when you're stoned?

depends on the company. if i'm with hippies, i'll talk hippie. If i'm with pretentious, pretending-to-be-well-read people, I'll utilize all the $5 words I know (not an inconsiderable amount.) And if i'm with Lankans, I'll start up the oft-mocked sing-song cadence.

Why do we bother... no offense to you and other Filipinos. Just trying to make some points to JB, the personification of why some desi men can't get any action here - desi or otherwise, and hence are forced to go back to India for an arranged marriage to a woman who has never met them and does not know of their inherent lameness. It's guys like that who make it hard for the real good desi men out there.

hey Tara Watabe... none taken no worries :)

the personification of why some desi men can't get any action here - desi or otherwise, and hence are forced to go back to India for an arranged marriage to a woman who has never met them and does not know of their inherent lameness.

Tara have you ever stopped to think (and I'm not defending JB, or even making a statement about him at all) but you generalized your comment outside of him, but have you stopped to think that desi men don't necessarily grow up with parents who have engaged in western social practices (and in your definition of 'lameness' you are distinguishing between the western dating approach and a traditional indian/eastern approach) not only that, that some of our parents have also devalued the acquisition of those skills.

It's guys like that who make it hard for the real good desi men out there.

That's counterintuitive, if anything it's guys like that should make it easier for real good desi men, as it would take less and less to stand out. If I'm in a class, take a test then score a 50, the 50 looks much better if everyone else gets a 2.

What it does assume however, is that a woman will shelve her inner prejudices before meeting new people.

What it does assume however, is that a woman will shelve her inner prejudices before meeting new people.

women are considered inherently weaker and less capable, and have to go the extra mile to prove themselves. why should they give men the benefit of the doubt? that's just male privilege.

"women are considered inherently weaker and less capable, and have to go the extra mile to prove themselves."

you're joking right? you pop in and out of character too much.

you're joking right?

i am not joking. don't you think there is a perception that women are the less capable sex in society? i am not saying that they are less capable, but when they are constantly underrepresented in all the male dominated bastions of society, and when even somebody like larry summers makes broad sweeping statements about aptitude, are you still saying that they have a level playing field?

you pop in and out of character too much.

what is the appropriate amount of character popping?

I'm actually with HMF on this... I don't feel comfortable generalizing about men on a racial-sexual basis like Tara Watabe has done to combat JB's asshatery (a noble cause, but stereotypes about black men having big penises, white men being more smooth? that just makes me uncomfortable). I also don't think that guys who marry women from India are 'inherently lame' - most of the ones I know who have done this are DBDs who were working or studying in the U.S. for a few years until they wanted to get married, at which point they set up correspondence with a few girls back home - they talked with each other directly, each party consented, the women are educated, etc. Also, some guys (and people in general) really just never get used to American ideas of dating and relationships, and actually aren't obsessed with sex... they genuinely want to just settle down and have kids. Also, I know an ABD woman who recently got married to a DBD she had corresponded with in this way. She's still socially graceful and everything... some desis raised in America are just more conservative.

Tara have you ever stopped to think (and I'm not defending JB, or even making a statement about him at all) but you generalized your comment outside of him, but have you stopped to think that desi men don't necessarily grow up with parents who have engaged in western social practices (and in your definition of 'lameness' you are distinguishing between the western dating approach and a traditional indian/eastern approach) not only that, that some of our parents have also devalued the acquisition of those skills.

My husband is one of those men who have not grown up with parents who have engaged in western social practices and did not date in the western sense. However, he had one great quality that made him a magnificent catch; RESPECT FOR ALL WOMEN.

However, he had one great quality that made him a magnificent catch; RESPECT FOR ALL WOMEN.

Is that all respect for all women makes you? A catch? I though it'd make you Mahatma Gandhi or something.

Marvelous thread btw.

Living at home at the age of 30 is not unusual for desis, and in India it is the norm for a single daughter to live at home till marriage and for the the son of the family to live at home for his whole life, bringing his bride to live with her in-laws. It seems odd to us outside of India, but it's a cultural norm there that is often carried over into other countries/cultures. This may or may not also contribute to the lack of social skills in other arenas. The student for 7 or 8 years thing though is odd for a desi.

i am not joking. don't you think there is a perception that women are the less capable sex in society? i am not saying that they are less capable, but when they are constantly underrepresented in all the male dominated bastions of society, and when even somebody like larry summers makes broad sweeping statements about aptitude, are you still saying that they have a level playing field?

it's not as cut and dry as you put it. first of all, you completely shifted the sphere of discussion from male/female relationships to working in corporations. I dont think there is a perception that women are less capable in the realm of relationships, especially when it comes to the early dating stages (as what this facebook "stalking" is really attempting to do). In fact, if anything, society grants women the upper hand by sanctioning a perception of "men chasing, and women choosing"

yeah, but even in relationships overall, women take on a disproportionate share of the burden on average. especially working women today, who essentially hold down two jobs, one at work, and an unpaid one at home. why make an arbitrary distinction of early and later stages in a relationship? when they aren't given any freebies, why should they hand them out?

and when going to bars, and being chased, women run a disproportionate risk of danger physically if they make an incorrect judgment. so sure, they bias on the side of caution.

i yearn for the good old innocent days when nips used to mean the stealthy gulps from the hip flask during the middle of the work day.

when they aren't given any freebies, why should they hand them out?

yeah, but even in relationships overall, women take on a disproportionate share of the burden on average. especially working women today, who essentially hold down two jobs, one at work, and an unpaid one at home.

Blanket statement, an exaggeration. So men don't work at home? But even if true, not relevant to the discussion of "facebook stalking" It was that setup that made the distinction, between early and later stages.

and when going to bars, and being chased, women run a disproportionate risk of danger physically if they make an incorrect judgment. so sure, they bias on the side of caution.

Again, shifting of sphere. Tara's point wasn't reject guys out of physical danger, or concern for personal safety. Rather "lameness" Then later her point was the pronderance of lameness makes it hard for the non-lame demographic, when in fact it should be the opposite. (See my test score example, a score of 50 in 2's should be enhanced), what it takes however, is a willingness to believe that not everyone from that class will automatically score a 2.

Secondly, physical risks are an extreme case, and if they pose such imminent danger, perhaps women should steer clear of men that are extremly physically bigger & stronger than them.

btw, is this your insidious strategy to ingratiate yourself with the ladies?

Oh I have no doubt. Juxtapose that with someone like myself who keeps it real.

No one is suggesting "handing out freebies" which, by the way, women get on a daily basis (both figuratively and literally, free drinks, free meals, free clothes, free jewelry...) I don't consider it a freebie to have "lameness not assumed automatically"

Is that all respect for all women makes you? A catch? I though it'd make you Mahatma Gandhi or something.

With all due respect to the Mahatma, he said some pretty whack things regarding the subject of rape and how a woman should handle it. However his view was not out of place for his geographical location at the time, and it was also reflective of his repressed views of sexuality, both his own and what he deemed approprite for others.

Living at home at the age of 30 is not unusual for desis, and in India it is the norm for a single daughter to live at home till marriage and for the the son of the family to live at home for his whole life, bringing his bride to live with her in-laws. It seems odd to us outside of India, but it's a cultural norm there that is often carried over into other countries/cultures. This may or may not also contribute to the lack of social skills in other arenas. The student for 7 or 8 years thing though is odd for a desi.

Who said he was desi? He's a white guy. There are no Indians at my Uni. He's not a PhD or grad student cos, like I said, he didn't even get his first year degree.

That was my point; though it may have been odd for a white guy, for a desi it isn't neccessarily odd, so that same consideration could be extended to white guys too, taking into consideration that living on your own at 30 is not a universal law.

Again, shifting of sphere. Tara's point wasn't reject guys out of physical danger, or concern for personal safety. Rather "lameness" Then later her point was the pronderance of lameness makes it hard for the non-lame demographic, when in fact it should be the opposite. (See my test score example, a score of 50 in 2's should be enhanced), what it takes however, is a willingness to believe that not everyone from that class will automatically score a 2.

Perhaps I was not clear enough. By lameness I meant JB's and Bollyhood's obvious disrespect for the female gender. Ordinary lameness (gamelessness) can be tolerated, and even cute at times. I know my husband had absolutely no game and I thought he was adorable. But then again, he respected women and didn't talk garbage about them.

By lameness I meant JB's and Bollyhood's obvious disrespect for the female gender.

Still isn't tantamount to physical violence.

I know my husband had absolutely no game and I thought he was adorable.

Right, you weren't attracted necessarily. you settled.

As a sidenote, there are instances when keeping it real could go wrong

I don't consider it a freebie to have "lameness not assumed automatically"

you asked for the non presumption of lameness in a physical setting, not facebook. but, the larger point i wanted to make with my original comment was the dichotomy with the assumption that presuming that white people might be decent too is privilege? (i am guessing you are male, but not white. i am sure that has absolutely nothing to do with your viewpoints though.)

Blanket statement, an exaggeration. So men don't work at home?

yes, there exist men who work at home. but look at the statistics. don't women take on a disproportionate amount of household chores?

which, by the way, women get on a daily basis (both figuratively and literally, free drinks, free meals, free clothes, free jewelry...).

In fact, if anything, society grants women the upper hand by sanctioning a perception of "men chasing, and women choosing"

Real. If by that, you mean my immediate reaction is "Really????".

Oh I have no doubt. Juxtapose that with someone like myself who keeps it real.

what was that you said earlier about not insulting people in a debate? but hey, i am sure you meant this in the most real way possible.

btw, is this your insidious strategy to ingratiate yourself with the ladies?

not insiduous. more like blatant. i am sure you didn't even realize the effect of the subliminal suggestion of the word 'lurker' in my handle. i am considering changing it to dravidian stalker next.

That was my point; though it may have been odd for a white guy, for a desi it isn't neccessarily odd, so that same consideration could be extended to white guys too, taking into consideration that living on your own at 30 is not a universal law.

Anyway this is getting exceedingly off-topic.

No one is suggesting "handing out freebies" which, by the way, women get on a daily basis (both figuratively and literally, free drinks, free meals, free clothes, free jewelry...) I don't consider it a freebie to have "lameness not assumed automatically"

some other freebies we get: nice glass ceilings, gender-selective abortions, questions about our fitness to be political leaders, jobs/tenure clocks that do not acknowledge our biological constraints, the second shift, unequal pay for equal work, restricted mobility because of safety concerns, the attack on our right to choose, historic designation as the spoils of war, getting to be lawyers and doctors and other professionals as late as the 20th c., relatively recent property ownership rights and electoral franchise.

no such thing as a free lunch as various others have pointed out on previous threads on this topic. we [women] mix our labor with natural endowments ('look pretty') because often this is the only way to access the resources and circumstances for some of us. the smart economic conservative commentators will break down locke for you. either you're obtuse (in not being able to evaluate social mores beyond the superficial level) or just troll-ish.

sorry, i do not want to be seen as self-pitying or hysterical here, but HMF, to paraphrase a spirited young woman on this blog: "you're making it hard for me not assume that you're automatically lame."
you do an awesome job of keeping it real. in some dimension not yet known to us lesser mortals.
this may be an instructive read for you.

you asked for the non presumption of lameness in a physical setting, not facebook

I made no claim either way, I think non presumption of lameness should be given in both.

my original comment was the dichotomy with the assumption that presuming that white people might be decent too is privilege?

It's a privilege when the same isn't afforded to other races. I believe men and women should be afforded non-presumption of lameness, of course since we live in a society where women do all (or most of) the initial "evaluating", it's female presumptions that carry the most weight.

This is why the race and gender situation isn't completely synonymous. With gender, there are only 2, and they are evolutionarily dependent on each other. And there are no (or very miniscule-ly few) societies that majority tilted to one gender (for example America is 80+% white, are there societies that are 80+% men?)

yes, there exist men who work at home. but look at the statistics. don't women take on a disproportionate amount of household chores?

Yes they do, but again, irrelevant to the discussion.

what was that you said earlier about not insulting people in a debate?

And I usually don't... unless someone else draws first blood.

Chapeau, portmanteau ;)

i am considering changing it to dravidian stalker next.

nice glass ceilings, gender-selective abortions, questions about our fitness to be political leaders, jobs/tenure clocks that do not acknowledge our biological constraints, the second shift, unequal pay for equal work, restricted mobility because of safety concerns, the attack on our right to choose, historic designation as the spoils of war, getting to be lawyers and doctors and other professionals as late as the 20th c., relatively recent property ownership rights and electoral franchise.

And this is where the hypocrisy sets in deepest. I'm all for eroding each and every one of these.

As for history, there's not much that can be done, if I had a time machine, I'd go back and support eroding those in the past as well. However, what I do demand as at least a fucking acknowledgement of the discrepancies I mention, rather than bring up divisions that have no place in the discussion (and, that many women not only have no issue with, rather they propogate themselves)

"you're making it hard for me not assume that you're automatically lame."

you're making it very easy for me to prove my point.

And I usually don't... unless someone else draws first blood.

what offended your tender sensibilities, may i know? in any case, don't pull your punches though, i can take them. we can trade jibes all day, but as a wise man (or woman?) once said, "never mud wrestle with a pig. you get dirty. and the pig loves it.".

It's a privilege when the same isn't afforded to other races. I believe men and women should be afforded non-presumption of lameness

we weren't talking about ideals, you were suggesting a specific normative guideline for how people should act, as in "when you meet a white person, do not presume that he is not a racist".

[s]talk to me.....;) i like your game. so much better than buying a drink for a lady. you'll go places, son.

portmanteau, i have half a mind to suggest that you be my belle de jour.

and, that many women not only have no issue with, rather they propogate themselves

you were suggesting a specific normative guideline for how people should act, as in "when you meet a white person, do not presume that he is not a racist".

That's misquoting. I was not prescribing guidelines, rather I was asking a question from a practial/realist one might even say, defeatist, point of view.. given that racial stereotypes exist and minorities must deal with them there seems to be a national consciousness of acceptance (ie. it's ok to follow a black person around in a store, because, well black people are more predisposed to crime), why do we clamour all over each other to make sure the whites have no such thing happen to him in the realm of prejudging based on race (when only 60 years ago, most whites weren't even shy about it?)

portmanteau, i have half a mind to suggest that you be my belle de jour.

yeah, so you're saying basically that women are also socialized inappropriately. duh. it's the patriarchy, stupid!

I personally think its a cop-out to say that women are these mindless zombies who are marching to the patriarchial tune with every decision they make. I'm for giving them all the freedoms in the world, but also the accountability that goes with it.

I'm for giving them all the freedoms in the world, but also the accountability that goes with it.

given your complete inability to engage with slightly complex arguments, i think i will go with the obtuse judgment. thanks for making *such* a straw-man of my claim.

I personally think its a cop-out to say that women are these mindless zombies who are marching to the patriarchial tune with every decision they make.

no more on this from me.

i've plans for the day; but i could be your belle du nuit.

you are my kind of zombie!

By lameness I meant JB's and Bollyhood's obvious disrespect for the female gender.

Still isn't tantamount to physical violence.

Seems you just want to argue. I did not berate JB for trying to look for the girls at his Uni that he saw on Facebook, remember? I was the one who said it's not any different from us girl "pretending" to bump into a cute guy we've been eyeing for days. My comments about his lameness and disrespect came after he verbalized further his ideas about women, American women, European women and Desi women. Take your physical violence argument elsewhere because I did not write anything abuot physical violence.

I know my husband had absolutely no game and I thought he was adorable.

Right, you weren't attracted necessarily. you settled.

So you know me now? You know that I "settled" for the man I love? Riiiiiiiiiight.

Take your physical violence argument elsewhere because I did not write anything abuot physical violence.

I know you didn't, DL did.

i apologize for some ad hominem remarks that have creeped in here, but put that down to my zombie-like stupidity.

err. arent you the one who magnificently claimed "it's the patriarchy stupid"?

given your complete inability to engage with slightly complex arguments

What's complex about saying "it's all the guys fault"?

So you know me now? You know that I "settled" for the man I love? Riiiiiiiiiight

This is a side point, but I don't necessarily think settling is a bad thing, nor do I think settling & loving someone are mutually exclusive. All it means is, you didn't have that instant attraction.

What's complex about saying "it's all the guys fault"?

to clarify the sense in which i used the term (which is fairly standard usage):

"Fredrika Scarth, (a feminist) reads Simone de Beauvoir's The Second Sex to be saying, "Neither men nor women live their bodies authentically under patriarchy." Carole Pateman, another feminist, writes, "The patriarchal construction of the difference between masculinity and femininity is the political difference between freedom and subjection."
(from Wikipedia)

Does anyone here seem to be saying "it's the guys fault?" At least *try* to characterize my views accurately.

Didn't Simone de Beauvoir used to find young women for Sartre to sleep with in his later years? Now that is un understanding wife. I think she wrote about it.

At least *try* to characterize my views accurately

This is ironic, coming from you, as I had only made a comment about benefits that are afforded to women in early stages of social relationships, given a 'dating' framework (#226), and your retort was to inexplicably bring up the fact that women couldn't be doctors or lawyers in the 1800's as some kind of counterpoint? (#232) - as if to say I am not aware of the laundry list of disenfranchisements you presented?

You are perfect for DL, both of you completely mischaracterized what I was saying, and shifted the entire fulcrum of the discussion.

So Tara,

Is your husband desi? If he is, can we assume that he as less size and skills in the bedroom than white and black guys? Because that's what you seemed to be saying.

People need to get over this shit. No race is any bigger or better in bed than any other. It's all individual. And the while you may think you are being complimentary to black guys, all you are doing is perpetuating the same sort of sexual exotification that most desi women in America have been complaining about for years.

Didn't Simone de Beauvoir used to find young women for Sartre to sleep with in his later years? Now that is un understanding wife. I think she wrote about it.

she did. but didn't write about it. a scholar, many years later, uncovered the fact as well as some other info that lead the feminist establishment to conclude their relationship was less equal than previously assumed...which saddened many since they were held up as the new ideal.

at least thats my take from memory. i never check my facts before typing.

benefits that are afforded to women in early stages of social relationships, given a 'dating' framework

of course since we live in a society where women do all (or most of) the initial "evaluating", it's female presumptions that carry the most weight.

is this really true? something to look forward to post-graduation then, i guess, compared to high school and college when if a girl isn't 'hot,' she simply does not exist. and if she does exist, it's only for you to be disgusted by her and to mock her. maybe it's a generational difference too, i dunno.

compared to high school and college when if a girl isn't 'hot,' she simply does not exist.

This holds true for guys too, in high school and college.

a scholar, many years later, uncovered the fact"

Actually I think Simone wrote about it in letters that were later published. She seemed to get off on the fact of Sartre sleeping with other women; women that she provided. The French have insight into a great many things.

"I enjoy being with a woman because I’m bored out of my mind when I have to converse in the realm of ideas."

--J.P Sartre

"Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks
Lick on deez n*tz and suck the d*ck"

- not J.P. Sartre

ok that one got away.

HMF- based on my personal experiences, I'm going to have to disagree. It's not as important for young guys to be hot so much as it is to be cool, which is based more on image and not specifically on what you were born with.

as it is to be cool, which is based more on image

First of all, how can you base any opinion on what standards guys have to conform to on personal experience? I assume you're 100% female.

Secondly, at the HS and college level, being 'cool' has a lot to do with what you look like.

Didn't Simone de Beauvoir used to find young women for Sartre to sleep with in his later years?

Now that is un understanding wife. I think she wrote about it.

This reminds me of a Puranic story in which a wife was deemed so pati-vrat (loyal to her husband), that when he glanced with desire upon a young prostitute, she went to beg that prostitute to sleep with her husband, even though he was old and decrepit. Her husband was cursed by some powerful Deity to die for his lust, ignorance and disrespect to his wife but through her chastity she was able to stop the sun from setting (he was cursed to die after sunset) and the 3 Deities Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva came to her home in the guise of toddlers and blessed her. I forget her name but she is one of the 5 pati-vratas that are remembered each morning upon waking by many traditional village women across India who are taught to emulate such "devotion" and loyalty to the husband. I remember my granny telling this story.

So Tara, Is your husband desi?

YES.

If he is, can we assume that he as less size and skills in the bedroom than white and black guys?

Yes, in general he does.

Because that's what you seemed to be saying.

Yes, that is exactly what I said and implied.

People need to get over this shit. No race is any bigger or better in bed than any other. It's all individual. And the while you may think you are being complimentary to black guys, all you are doing is perpetuating the same sort of sexual exotification that most desi women in America have been complaining about for years.

I'm not one of those desi women who complain about sexual exotification. And size and bedroom skills are not EVERYTHING, love is, and that is why I married my husband. Size cannot change but skills can be learned. Nevertheless, go back and read my comments in contexts to what both JB and Bollyhood were saying about women, and then you will have a better feel for what I was trying to convey.

we'll be as happy together as you and your good hand on friday night.

glad you decided to keep the debate complex and sophisticated.

"Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks Lick on deez n*tz and suck the d*ck"

glad you decided to keep the debate complex and sophisticated.

i like how you can say both those things with a straight face. but seriously, i hope there's no bad blood here. i was just not too thrilled by the choice of your quote.

First of all, how can you base any opinion on what standards guys have to conform to on personal experience? I assume you're 100% female.

Secondly, at the HS and college level, being 'cool' has a lot to do with what you look like.

yes i'm female, but my personal experience has shown me guys who are not attractive still be considered 'cool' because of the image they cultivate. and image doesn't necessarily have to do with what you look like. your personal experience may have shown you something completely different, but i won't try to challenge that. it's possibly also a generational difference, or it might depend on where you grew up or what type of college you went to.

"Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks Lick on deez n*tz and suck the d*ck"

I thought it was pretty obvious this wasn't part of the debate.

but my personal experience has shown me guys who are not attractive still be considered 'cool' because of the image they cultivate. and image doesn't necessarily have to do with what you look like.

at high school and college, it surely has everything to do with what you look like.

what you look like = facial features, body type (without actively trying to bulk up). image = how you present yourself, through clothes, facial hair, attitude, etc.

can we just say that the popular kids win, ugly brown kids lose, and call it a day?

mrs. watabe,

I feel sorry for that husband of yours, whose wife (claims on an online board that she )thinks he's got no game, deficient size and skills, etc. ( and this too considering the guy is a nice fellow who does no harm to you, respects all women, etc.) But I'm just curious if you also directly tell him your views above?

well, I guess you can't really be blamed in case your frustration is genuinely borne out of the BR

eh not really, I grant you, guys have a bit more wiggle room, but that's usually as they get older.

at the high school/college years, these guys can have all the attitude and facial hair they want, its going no place. (Im sure they're great guys, unfortunately hypocritical women will turn them down)

suck my clit.

Tara, as I read more of your contributions, I'm reminded of the social theory that posits women have two "meters" in their brains, one for alpha males and one for beta males. A beta male is one for provisional purposes, he's very predictable, a woman will usually withhold sex from him to guarantee fidelity. the alpha male meter essentially gets her juices flowing so she can't help herself. With this of course, there's no longevity or provisional capacity at all. And of course we all know Robin Bakers, book sperm wars that proposes 4-10% of the children born to married couples are in fact fatherd by these "alpha males" when of course the woman is married to the beta male (for the security)

Now, a lot of your writing suggests this distinction/dichotomy is particularly pronounced in your mind, and you either have or are continuing this dichotomy in a non-trivial manner. I'll even go out on a limb and say your husband doesn't do too bad in the paycheck department either.. but I don't know you, like you said, and could be wrong.

Folks, we're having to delete entirely too many comments that violate our comment policies.

If things don't become more civil (less profane), we'll be shutting down this thread shortly.

dude....regarding those pics have u considered the possibility that those 2 guys or someone who knows them might stumble on this page by chance where they find ppl talking abt their supposed 'bad looks'?

random,

good point.. but have you considered the possibility that I myself might be one of them?

HMF, have YOU considered the possibility that I might be one of them :P

btw, if in fact, you are one of those guys, why are you on SM writing such loong comments? You should be working towards a PGM or something :P (jk)
..or... oh wait, did u decide to go to the US for ur undergrad by any chance?

Anyway, I posted their pictures not to denigrate them, rather to prove to ms. nala that looks are indeed highly correlated to "image"

HMF - that's what I'm saying, by changing their style, those guys could become hot commodities (i, for one, am itching to give them makeovers). i don't think it's hypocritical for women to reject them on the basis of looks if they perceive themselves to be higher on the hotness meter.

"HMF - that's what I'm saying, by changing their style, those guys could become hot commodities"

then the likewise is true for equally deficient women. and no, it's not hypocritical for women to reject on the basis of looks,
just be upfront about it and don't adhere to the 5 D's (dodge duck dip dive and dodge) behind words like 'image'

HMF, are u seriously one of those guys?

well i see what you mean, since there is the cliche in movies of a girl taking her glasses off and letting her hair down and suddenly she is h0t. and when girls dress up nicely, they get comments like 'you look really pretty today,' etc. but i still think that whatever guys lack in looks, they get more leeway in making up for it with 'personality,' no matter the age, but i don't really feel like explicating on my personal experiences to show what makes me feel this way.
and i think it's generally more tactful to say to someone 'you're not my type' instead of saying 'i think you're unattractive' (regardless of gender). and i don't think 'image' is a code word - some women genuinely have a thing for guys who present themselves a certain way, and others are turned off by men who present themselves a certain way.

"they get more leeway in making up for it with 'personality,'"

I agree, but personality develops over time, so the older you are, the more pronounced it could be. At HS/College, the effect is negligible.

"and i think it's generally more tactful to say to someone 'you're not my type' instead of saying 'i think you're unattractive'"

you can lie to anyone else, but one shouldn't lie to themselves.

"some women genuinely have a thing for guys who present themselves a certain way, and others are turned off by men who present themselves a certain way."

in high school/college that "how they present themselves" is highly correlated to physical appearance, if not completely.

i feel like we're just going around in circles now HMF. i'm stopping now. :)

ok. but I still fail to see how your personal experience amounts to a hill of beans, unless you're a lesbo? Sure you may know what you like.. but as a guy, I've been rejected by many girls, and know what those women have accepted instead, and have observed this over time.. and in almost all cases, it was a difference in looks.

of course, Im talking about highschool/college.

jigga quoi? i really don't understand what the point of your last comment was HMF.

well, you keep saying '...based on my personal experience...' and that just confuses me, since it's not obvious what first hand information you'd have as to the difficulties/intracacies involved with attracting women, or understanding what may or may not influence a women's rejection of a guy at an aggregate level (unless you're generalizing based on your wants)

i wasn't claiming to know about the difficulties in attracting women by (not) bringing up my 'personal experience,' i was saying that i find that boys get more leeway in how they look compared to girls 'in my experience.'

right, how would you know what leeway guys get ?

umm because i've seen it with my own eyes. guys who are not that attractive scoring with girls who would be otherwise out of their league because they present a certain image that those girls like, whether it is a 'cute nerd' image or a 'musician' image.

Of course, I could only comment on the veracity of your "not that attractive" claim after seeing the pictures. but I'll take your view at face value, however, such occurences are rare at the HS/college level.

well even my guy friends, after finding out that such boy was going out with such hot girl, were all, "really?? that's like janet jackson going for jermaine dupri craziness!" i don't claim to speak for how common or rare this is though. how are you so sure that they're rare?

I'm saying they are rare given the parties/bars/clubs/etc.. that I went to while in college, and the few couples that existed in high school

Simone de Beauvoir also had numerous extra-relationship affairs with both men and women. She wasn't a passive, selfless partner.

The misogyny from some of you here is sickening. HMF - you've previously demonstrated your woman-hating tendencies, so it's not surprising to hear you spewing rot about bitches and hoes. You've been rejected by many girls, you say - no, REALLY??? Your underlying problem, clearly, is that women DO NOT LIKE YOU. Deal - don't respond by making repeated, mindless generalizations about the way women select their mates.

Apart from your personal issues, your inconsistency is remarkable. Some time ago you were ranting about women mainly being interested in money. Now you are ranting that women are mainly interested in looks. Actually, most of them are mainly interested in kind, thoughtful, intelligent, funny and considerate people. Try it sometime.

Amardeep,
Am in incorrect in assuming that a comment of Tara's including 'suck my clit' was deleted, while HMF's egregious bitch-and-ho quote has been left untouched? If so, there's a double standard here.

HMF,
So the quote was not part of the debate - what was it for, then? Our edification?

for the record, i did not include that misogynistic Sartre quote b/c i agreed with its contents, but rather it was part of my continued effort to demonize communists, whom i consider worse than klansman, as most of you know.

btw, i took that online quiz going around the feminist blogs recently measuring how much of a feminist one is and i scored off the charts, like 100%. couldn't believe it myself. almost spit out my hooters burger. i'm serious.

DQ, its been a long time since i read Simone DB, but my understanding is that her personal life did not live up to her political. and we all know the personal is... . but i hear ann coulter manages the opposite.

on second thought, that should be...ann coulter manages the same.

I saved this thread (to read, when I had the time); now, I feel like when I do that, I'm just jinxing it and it's going to be...like this.

The first time some garbage about "maybe American girls are unwanted by guys back home b/c they might have fucked a black guy" pops up...on a thread about Facebook...things don't just need to be nipped, they need to be attacked with a chainsaw. How much ignorance, prejudice, sexism and general assholery can one person fit in a comment?!

HMF - you've previously demonstrated your woman-hating tendencies, so it's not surprising to hear you spewing rot about bitches and hoes. You've been rejected by many girls, you say - no, REALLY??? Your underlying problem, clearly, is that women DO NOT LIKE YOU

what an original thought. from DQ none-the-less. I'm blown away right now, of course, if you bothered to read (a problem when it comes to my posts for some reason), I did qualify that by saying in high school and college, and since your concern is abounding, I do ok now, all i have to do is take the DL route and say what the women want to hear.

HMF's egregious bitch-and-ho quote has been left untouched? If so, there's a double standard here.

again, it comes back to that whole reading thing. I was attaching onto Manju's Sartre quote (almost as if to be offering a modern translation) as I quoted "not JP Sartre", indeed it was a Dr. Dre Song "bitches ain't shit" that I quoted, that in and of itself is a joke, as Ben Folds Five did a cover of the song. You might have to come back with a bit more nuanced responses than "HMF is a misogynist oogity boogity boo!"