I don't mean to put a damper on things. However, if you disagree with Jindal's policies, what's to celebrate? Is this not unthinking ethnic solidarity at best, racism at worst? Does race trump ideology, and should only all groups think that way?

cheers.

We're coming closer to a time when a person's color doesn't mean anything. I'm not a fan of Jindal, but congratulations to the Governor.

No, you're not putting a damper on things at all. Either that or the champers have kicked in and I can't feel damp. w00t politics!

Is this not unthinking ethnic solidarity at best, racism at worst?

I don't think so.

We're all different. You seem to think that if I dislike his policies, I have to dislike him. Well, I don't. I don't love him either, and I loathe all binary bullshit thinking, when it's always, always greyer than that. I'm happy for him because it's a first. I don't believe that people should get a free pass for shit, just because they're brown. If they're criminals, I don't feel extra sympathy for them. If their books or records suck, I don't buy them or support their efforts. But if they win such a visible office...I am going to sit up and take notice.

If you told me that a desi would be elected Governor a few years ago, I wouldn't have believed it. I'm allowed to be excited about exactly that aspect of it, because like most humans, I identify with those I have something (note: I didn't say everything) in common with...a child of Indian immigrants grows up to be Governor? Yeah, I'm going to react positively to that, at least on the night of victory, because that IS fantastic and cool. Being happy doesn't mean he gets a blank check from me or that I'm going to love him forever ever (forever ever?).

Even my die-hard Dem of a father would've popped champagne tonight...and once I realized that, that's when I went to the fridge.

We're coming closer to a time when a person's color doesn't mean anything

i celebrate what lion celebrates. anericans can take pride that the great experiment is working, as i think its possible to celebrate examples of colorblindness while simultaneously acknowledging racism. i don't much like jindals social conservatism either but i feel the same way about him as i do obama. both have some repulisive politics that are probably hurtful to POC in particular, nonetheless, their existence is a testament to MLK's dream.

A huge day in our lives if you ask me. The possibilities, in the least the psychological ones that have been opened in the minds of brown people everywhere will have a ripple effect. Much in the same way katyal, menezes, pandit have shown us all what is possible. not to mention nooyi. Indians have arrived! I am glad to see my people empowered. However, personally - I see race playing a role in his policies, almost as if he is trying to cover up his browness or part of his browness and tendencies to lean to liberals by adopting a conservative stance. but that is just me. I feel the same way about dinesh d'souza. the horrors of being damamged in grade school :).

But I agree with anna, my diet coke can is raised in the air.

Okay, I'll confess the urge to have a sip of champagne toasting an Asian guy who doesn't at all look like me making governor.

But I think that's a petty, if very human, impulse that ought to be transcended.

better than that, the next time some little kid decides that they want to be in government when they grow up, their immigrant parents now have a visual, a template, a precedent to latch on to, much the same way my English minor was suddenly acceptable once Jhumpa won.

I would think Jhumpa's standing in her craft is far more credible than that of Bobby in his policies. IMO I don't think that he would be a good example to give when justifying your choices for participating in politics, unless ofcourse you wanna say "Hey! if he can make it with those policies... .." This makes me think.. are there young politicians out there who might be modeling their political career after Bush ?

I think maybe you miss Anna's point. If I'd have had a vote, I would have cast it for someone else. Nevertheless, in the political arena, he is the first Indian-American to rise so high. That in itself is historically significant (to Indian-Americans,anyway) even if the guy holds policy positions completely antithetical to mine.

There is something pretty remarkable about this guy, only 36 years old and the child of immigrants, occupying the same State House that Huey Long once held and David Duke almost held. In the completely positive, non-ironic sense of the phrase, only in America.

Speedy

I would think Jhumpa's standing in her craft is far more credible than that of Bobby in his policies.

I wouldn't, I hated Interpeters of Malodorous. :)

::

I'm curious about some of you, who (mostly in Amardeep's thread) are recoiling at his "policies". I'm not advocating agreeing with them, not when I don't. But I don't have this weird rxn some of you have had, which makes me wonder if there is only one "valid" set of policies. Are people not allowed to disagree? People who are pro-life feel just as strongly as their opponents do. Did it ever occur to some of you that there might be brown people who like his policies?

Is Jindal undeserving of Congratulations just because he doesn't fit in to some neat little box of what a desi politician needs to be before everyone's fucking happy? THAT'S what's bothering me about the conversation...

When someone won a debate, even if I couldn't stand them, I walked over, shook their hand, and congratulated them. It's the right thing to do. Not being able to congratulate a legitimate winner is petty, IMO.

Incidentally, Jindal's victory is also a victory for wonkishness. In the least educated state in the union, Louisiana voters refused to be baited attacks on Jindal's Ivy League pedigree.

From the NYTimes:

"Insinuations about his excessive intellectual capacity are still being made. “It’s not going to be about the smartest person in this race,” Walter Boasso, a Democratic state senator and one of Mr. Jindal’s opponents, said recently. But such remarks do not seem to be catching on with voters apparently weary of bumbling at the Capitol in Baton Rouge and at City Hall in New Orleans."

Is Jindal undeserving of Congratulations just because he doesn't fit in to some neat little box of what a desi politician needs to be before everyone's fucking happy? THAT'S what's bothering me about the conversation...

Take the Indian angle out of it. If someone got elected who didn't support abortion in the case of rape, incest, or the life or health of the mother to point of opposing the termination of an ectopic pregnancy (assuming the Wikipedia article is correct), supported the teaching of Intelligent Design, and was an enthusiastic supporter of Bush; I wouldn't be happy about his election no matter what his ethnicity. His being Indian has nothing to do with it.

Putting the Indian angle back into it, it's nice to see one more affirmation that ethnicity is no bar to advancement. The two sentiments are not mutually exclusive.

Speedy

I'm sorry I should've been clearer, I have no issues with congratulating Jindal.. and I agree with Anna on the fact that the opponent deserves a good spirited handshake at the end of the debate, that's sportsmanship. What I had an issue with was making an example out of him... and so I said IMO he is not the best role model, because I don't agree with his politics, nothing to do with desi/brown elements here...

I'm curious about some of you, who (mostly in Amardeep's thread) are recoiling at his "policies". I'm not advocating agreeing with them, not when I don't. But I don't have this weird rxn some of you have had, which makes me wonder if there is only one "valid" set of policies. Are people not allowed to disagree? People who are pro-life feel just as strongly as their opponents do. Did it ever occur to some of you that there might be brown people who like his policies?

Not only that - it doesn't matter what I sitting in California think, or what someone in Illinois does. Considering that the fact that we're a federal republic, at the end of the day, we get the people (if one views other Americans as part of their tribe/community) we elect. People are allowed to have a diverse set of opinions that lets them define the parameters of their community from the ground up. If the pendulum starts to swing one way, rest assured, it eventually will swing back if the sentiment isn't unanimous.

Politics and positions (both on the right and left) have become so intolerant of each other and healthy debate. The dude ran and was elected by the people of his state with an outright victory. Good luck and hopefully he can do something where all the other picture perfect politicians, those who think/behave the 'acceptable' way, have so miserably failed.

Louisiana definitely has some characters in politics.

Speedy,

ITA and I think you summed it up well. I don't think they are mutually exclusive, either.

I wrote what you excerpted because I'm mad at some of the crap I'm seeing in my inbox about how this is not good for the community...or comments on this very blog about how Jindal is the opposite of what "the community" wants. I think that's lame and inaccurate. Democrats don't get to claim the entire South Asian community for themselves. There are brown conservatives whether they care to admit it or not. The fact that the person who achieved this milestone doesn't play in their political sandbox doesn't invalidate it, if that makes sense. What, something doesn't count unless it's on your terms? Maybe for you, not for all.

ANNA - I don't quite understand. You're saying that we should allow for desis we don't agree with politically to make policies, by not voicing our disagreement or discomfort with their opinions?

That said, I don't think Jindal being conservative makes him a 'desi sell-out' or whatever, simply because there isn't a large enough or cohesive enough South Asian community, politically, on the national level in the U.S., for desis to have 'one voice.' While he is representative of the Indian-American community in many ways, I personally don't feel he speaks for *me*, which is why I'm uncomfortable with the praise he gets from some Indian-American organizations (mostly 1st-gen ones who are proud of anything every Indian has ever done, except possibly Sunny Leone), as if I should worship at his feet just because he is brown. That said, I am amazed at what he's done.

I don't quite understand. You're saying that we should allow for desis we don't agree with politically to make policies, by not voicing our disagreement or discomfort with their opinions?

I don't quite understand how you interpreted my statements to mean that I advocate suppressing dissent about policies we disagree with, etc. :)

We're not allowing shit btw, the people of Louisiana are. I don't think I'm more important than they are, so I'm not going to say that my preferences trump theirs. They voted, they chose.

This guy is on his way to becoming one of the smartest and possibly most influential champions of hatred, ignorance and bigotry in this country. And I'm supposed to drink to him because we trace our common heritage to a pool of 1.3 billion people - a fifth of the world's population? F_ck that!

I'm consoling myself by revisiting f___thesouth.com. I recommend it.

Over here on this side of the Sabine, people have a habit of disparaging their esteemed neighbors to the East. but I don't see Texans repeating this feat anytime soon (although it would be awesome if they did: neighboring desi-lead states...It'd be just like Karan-Arjun)...

As for politics, I don't see the point in moaning about his excessively. There are plenty of politicians in America that I'd love to bitch and moan about all day long, but since they are a dime a dozen, we might as well be happy about the positive aspects of Jindal's election.

By the way, I'd be interested to see how this becomes covered in the Indian media, especially papers like the Deccan Chronicle and its ilk. I can only imagine the headlines: "Weather-beaten Americans Turn to Indians for Leadership," "Newest Indian State: Louisiana," "Cajuns like their politicians like their food: with lots of Mirch-Masala," or some other such annoying crap that makes me wonder why anyone would pay for the subscription in the first place.

Anyhow, congrats to Jindal, and all the desis out there.

This guy is on his way to becoming one of the smartest and possibly most influential champions of hatred, ignorance and bigotry in this country

Yes, no politician has ever pandered to biogts before. Jindal is revolutionary!

And I'm supposed to drink to him because we trace our common heritage to a pool of 1.3 billion people - a fifth of the world's population?

You're not "supposed" to do anything. I'm drinking to his victory because I'm not petty, I'm positive. And it's more significant than your expansive 1.3 billion people...to me, it's more like a few million, in this country, none of whom has been elected governor before. I'm looking at this as an American, whose parents came here just like his did. That gives me something in common with him that I don't even share with some of my blood relatives in Kerala.

I guess the reason why I'm able to be happy for him is because I recognize politics for what it is-- both parties suck, both parties are more similar than many of us think and at the end of the day, they all go out and clap each other on the back and drink together, after they spent hours insulting one another from either side of the aisle (or at least they did when I worked in the Assembly, in Sacramento). There's posturing and there's bullshit spouted on campaigns and that's all part of the game. If all of them are playing it, why am I supposed to hate on Bobby more?

I'm trying to be positive. I think GujuDude raised an excellent point about how intolerant we've become of our opponents.

I think Bobby fits in the same category as Alberto Gonzalez and Condi Rice. Both are people of color and if I despise them so much why shouldn't I have the same feelings for Bobby? Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Bobby's competence in building alliances, getting things done as much as I know about his convictions. Maybe, if he is able to prove himself in office, I will change my mind.
There is a part of me that does marvel at his accomplishment. In the end, would I rather have a solidly conservative Indian-American Catholic become Governor of a State or not have one at all? I choose the former.

"[O]nly in America"? Come on! Deepa Mehta is in the midst of making a film of the appalling Komagata Maru incident which took place in British Columbia in 1914 -- also the home of legislated discrimination against Chinese and, as on the west coast of the USA during World War II, forcible resumption of Japanese-Canadian property and internment in camps in the interior. And BC has now had three ethnically Indian attorneys-general and one premier, not to speak of numerous superior court judges. And vast numbers of ethically South Asian members of parliament from both BC and Ontario, from all three major parties. (When the Reform Party was in federal opposition before returning to its origins in the Conservative Party and now forming government, its spokesman for French-Canadian affairs was, of all things, a Muslim Gujarati MP from Edmonton, which may indicate that Conservatives have a sense of humour.)

And then there all those ethnically South Asian members of the British House of Lords and the British superior courts. Granted, there are per capita far more South Asians in the UK and Canada than in the USA but that may reinforce the point. America is entitled to its national myths just like every other country; like all such myths they contain a certain amount of truth and a certain amount of malarkey: let's not confuse ourselves by treating them as gospel. It sounds like Larry King's perennial "That's what America is all about" every time there is good news: no it isn't. "Only in America"? Hardly. "Finally, at last, also in America," more like.

"Finally, at last, also in America," more like.

Hence the champagne!! :D

> BC has now had three ethnically Indian attorneys-general and one premier

Louisiana, unlike BC, or say, Hawaii, has a negligibly small Asian population. It's about the last place you'd expect to find an over-educated son of Indian parents taking out a mortgage much less getting elected governor.

bobby jindal being gov. isn't actually in my mind much of an 'indian' story. there are many brown politicians. and honestly, i don't even think it is much of an indian american story. i think it is an american story. one generation ago bobby jindal would have been considered a n**ger by many of the people who voted for him. the fact that an asian american son of immigrants was elected to a position of executive power in the deep south in a state where his co-racialists are trivial in numbers says something about america. race will probably always matter, but how it matters makes a world of difference.

I was reading an earlier post that mentioned alberto gonzales, another person with pedigree from places including yale law who, like bobby, is a person of color. What is upsetting about that situation is that here is a person with a certain minority profile who attained a position with a degree of power attached to it. what is upsetting about what happened with gonzales is that people can use his failures to apply similar deficincies to all people who are of his ethnic group, who are people of color or for that matter; who are minorities. Race is still a game and in this game of race, people who are not racially sound would relish the instance of a person of color come to power, fail in his post and use that failure to degrade an extended group of people. Bobby's politics make me a little nervous to be frank. Anyone see what I am trying to say.

Race is still a game and in this game of race, people who are not racially sound would relish the instance of a person of color come to power, fail in his post and use that failure to degrade an extended group of people.

you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy at ticket ;-)

Anna -

I don't "loathe" Bobby, though I disagree with him quite a bit. But this assertion:

Whether you loathe him or not, Bobby just made it a hell of a lot more possible for someone whose policies you actually agree with to do similar.

doesn't quite strike me as plausible without a lot more explanation. If then. Most desis are not named "Bobby"; most desis will not get the support of the Christian Coalition and similar groups for their religious affiliation or for the policy positions that Jindal holds. So how is it that his victory means anything for other desis unless they replicate his particular modes of assimilation? (This disclaimer shouldn't be necessary, but please note that in saying that, I'm obviously not saying that he "wants to be white.")

Feel happy for him if you wish -- I have no objection to that as such, and I can certainly join in congratulating him, at least to the same extent that I would congratulate any other political opponent who wins an election. Of course, despite the fact that our soap opera driven political discourse tends to suggests otherwise, political victories do not matter primarily for the personal achievements they represent for the candidates and their families. And regardless, I think that quite a bit more explanation and justification is necessary before you can persuasively make the case that by feeling happy for him, that gives any serious reason to feel happy "by extension" for the rest of us, who will probably not benefit from Bobby's victory in any meaningful way unless we agree with his political program.

Finally, I think we shouldn't too quickly breeze over the issue of Bobby's pandering to racism against African Americans, which both Maitri and Kush Tandon have noted [one, two]. If you are celebrating his victory and lifting a glass of champagne to toast it, then you also are toasting that -- you can't really pick and choose on that one.

Youngest governor ever!!!! And those of you who have any misgivings about Bobby Jindal's Jena 6 role figure out why didn't Barack Obama take part in those protests either. You'll find the answer in the Economist's issue from like three weeks ago.

Anyone see what I am trying to say.
I am trying to say.

Yes, but tonight I am still celebrating--I think all these Jindal-haters didn't have my childhood, so--even if I am being self-indulgent--hell--let me get back to the party--literally!!

you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy at ticket ;-)

that is true razib, but people who I feel exemplify what is so great about so many indian people; their emotional development is a result of years of grounding and experiences in india. One might go so far as to call bobby an abcd, he has an american sounding name that he uses, while he converted out of his ancestral religion. while there is nothing wrong with that, I can't help but think that if he was born in my neck of the woods we would have an indian american governor who was jewish. He does not provide me with the same level of comfort that other prominent indians, mostly those born in india who have reached positions of power do. There might be holes in his game that people, the kind that won't stay at desi owned motels, whould love to exploit.

Small world indeed. I just spent the evening with very good friends of the Jindaal family.They were actually invited to the Jindal celebration party but they had to be near my place for some family function. I know I had mixed feelings on this guy's possible victory a week ago. I didn't care for his ideology but recognized that Lousiana was too fucked up a state to worry about ideology and the DEmocrats fucked up their chance. I think local politics mandate efficient government first, ideology second. Once the efficiency and competency kicks in, then worry about the guy's views. That's why I didn't care if Jindal won.

Well it looks like I might be able to talk to him whenever I am ready to take a trip down there since my relatives are very close friends of the family and I am close to these relatives. We just never spoke politics before. So his name never came up in our conversations.

It is possible I would be able to interview him too(unless his handlers overrule him).

My relatives asked me to grill them on Jindal. I didn't want to go too deep into the personal ideology stuff with them because they know his family too well. I brought up ethics since some liberal bloggers got outraged that I didn't share their concern with them about Jindaal. They said he is very smart, very driven to improve the state. They seem totally confident that he will be an improvement. If I get to meet him, I can relay more.

I had to misspell my name to avoid being googled on this.

They don't post at SM, but, damn--I am at a desi party par-excellence right now--they seem to be very pro-Jindal.

anna i disagree with you completely

I guess this is generational, but--I am so happy I could cry.
I'm not kidding.
Woot, woot, ad infinitum!!

Finally, I think we shouldn't too quickly breeze over the issue of Bobby's pandering to racism against African Americans, which both Maitri and Kush Tandon have noted [one, two]

I'd like both Kush Tandon and Maitri to provide specific examples of Bobby Jindal's racism against African Americans. On the contrary and very unfortunately African Americans voted en masse against Jindal in the last election and this after promising him their vote. This might surprise you but in the south African Americans are just as racist as Whites.

let me reiterate my opinion, i really don't think this is substantively that big of a deal for american browns. emotionally, yes. but substantively i do think it is a big deal for louisiana.

36 · Posterity

OK, fine--could you take 15 minutes & celebrate--as Razib says, this is politics--have a bit of fun.

anna i disagree with you completely

As for the rest of you and those of you to come, please remember that I wrote this:

There are so many valid reactions to Jindal; I know about them because thanks to Amardeep’s post, we have hosted a lively discussion regarding his background, his policy positions and the greater implications of his politicking, for “the community”. Amardeep’s thoughts resonated with many of us who are conflicted about Louisiana’s new Governor. The good news is, there are no wrong reactions. Each of us is allowed to feel how we do, so while some of you gnash your teeth, I’m happy for him and by extension, us.

I have already explained why I feel how I do.

This post was written by me, but I'll be saddened if some of you choose to focus on that in this thread, vs the event which I was discussing. I am not "making a case", I'm discussing why I think it's okay to be happy/congratulate him; if we were sitting at a restaurant and I said "this will make it easier for others to do the same" or "we should still congratulate him", would you have the same rxn or expectations of me to write essays justifying myself? I'm a blogger, not a lawyer in court.

Now let's discuss Bobby, please. This thread can be about him, or I can close it, because I do not have the time to answer for my audacity to disagree with some of you, over and over again. Sorry if that seems blunt, but it's true. No more from me for tonight.

i'm brown and could care less that he won. does that make me less brown. heck no.

i'm brown and could care less that he won. does that make me less brown? heck no.

i'm brown and could care less that he won. does that make me less brown? heck no-it's my preogative.

I am told that I can meet Jindal whenever he has time. My relative told me that he can make it happen. If I do, I will solicit questions here. I will expect questions from both sides. The question is when do I feel like going to Louisiana.

I understand what your saying Anna, but as far as I know, hasn't Gov. Jindal disavowed any affiliation with his former life? The article writer says he's Indian American, we know he's Indian American, but for all intents and purposes (again as far as I know) will not make that something on forefront of his life. A little late here, but I guess the point that I'm trying to make, your celebrating something he wants nothing to do with.

I think that I figured Jindal out a little. I was just lying in bed when it came to me. I remember my own developmental process. When I was young I wanted to be called mark so that people would not call me pumpkin and an aspect of my race would be nullified. I think that is what we see with bobby. Maybe this dynamic exists for religion as well. Personally, I embraced jewish culture so that I was - aside for the three days a year - or whatever it is, reformed jews go to synagogue I was no different than them. I feel that bobby's development maybe iferred by evidence provided to us by these two factors. I feel he nullified any cultural diffrences, or as many as he could in order to not be impeded by his background. I am interested in hearing your thoughts on this, if any of you are still awake. for those of you who aren't get up and write!

To Mac, #22:

Non-serious answer: America, Canada, what's the difference? Being from Michigan, I was like 12 before I realized Canada was actually a separate country. So British Columbia counts when I said "only in America." Complete non-sequitur: Dave Foley once said "I'm a Canadian. It's like an American, but without a gun." I fell off the couch laughing at that one.

Half-serious answer: I suppose a more accurate statement would have "Only in Western federal democracies with a history of broad-based immigration," but it doesn't quite have the same ring to it, you know? Mea culpa.

Serious answer: While not perfect, Canada has a much better history regarding its treatment of minorities than the United States. More specifically, I'm not an expert on BC history but I'm willing to bet BC has a better history re: treatment of minorities than does Louisiana. I mean, c'mon, 15 years ago a former Grand Wizard of the KKK forced a runoff election for the same office that Jindal just won outright. That kind of _progress_ really is possible "only in America," if only because, in race relations, America had and has so much further to go.

Speedy

brownout,

I think Razib said it better than I did and if I had written something more like this...

bobby jindal being gov. isn't actually in my mind much of an 'indian' story. there are many brown politicians. and honestly, i don't even think it is much of an indian american story. i think it is an american story. one generation ago bobby jindal would have been considered a n**ger by many of the people who voted for him. the fact that an asian american son of immigrants was elected to a position of executive power in the deep south in a state where his co-racialists are trivial in numbers says something about america. race will probably always matter, but how it matters makes a world of difference.

...we'd all know that. I was not aware that he disavowed his ethnicity, though part of me is thinking that if he did, he must be irritated b/c that's all everyone sees...if the grey lady wants to emphasize that aspect of his candidacy, then no matter what Bobby thinks, I get to celebrate. ;)

Now I reeeeally need to go to bed.

45 · Pankaj

You are 100% correct--but, what does that have to do with Jindal--I love him, other desis hate him...

rob- I just think that it is insightful, and also evidence of similar dynamics playing out in outher parts of the country where the prevailing majority is varied. I just feel that i got a glimpse into who jindal is and the issues that he may have. I think his name is pishyal - or something like that. i don't think a hindu named pishyul all else being identical would have been elected goevernor.

Anna,#15:

I wrote what you excerpted because I'm mad at some of the crap I'm seeing in my inbox about how this is not good for the community...or comments on this very blog about how Jindal is the opposite of what "the community" wants. I think that's lame and inaccurate. Democrats don't get to claim the entire South Asian community for themselves. There are brown conservatives whether they care to admit it or not.

A wise man once said: "The mark of another's person intelligence is the extent to which [s]he agrees with you." In which case you are a brilliant and insightful commentator, you get no argument from me.

The only part I find strange is that anyone would make the assumption that Indian-Americans are mostly (or even largely) Democrats; the impression I got growing up was that Indian-Americans tend to be much more conservative than average. Maybe that's changed _some_ since Bush 43 took office, but I'd guess not much.

Speedy

if we were sitting at a restaurant and I said "this will make it easier for others to do the same", would you have the same rxn or expectations of me to write essays justifying myself?

Well, actually.... with someone thoughtful and whom I respect, such as yourself, I definitely would expect to be able to have a conversation about assertions like that one. In fact, I've had many a conversation like that in many a restaurant, involving both my questioning others' assertions and others challenging me to defend my own. It's not even remotely a question of placing you on trial -- I didn't disparage or question your right to have whatever emotional reaction you'd like, and certainly wasn't making any sort of judgment about what that reaction says about you. Both of those things would be a lot closer to "putting you on trial," and would be entirely uncalled for; if you understood me to be trying to do any of that, then my apologies for any miscommunication on my part.

But in addition to your emotional reaction -- which I don't quite share, but also don't question -- you made a specific factual assertion about the political and social implications of Bobby's victory (not about yourself), and about which I am skeptical (but by no means attacking you personally). In a space that invites comments and dialogue, why shouldn't it be appropriate to engage in dialogue about that -- which is not about you at all, but rather is very much about the "event [you] were discussing"?

49 · pankaj on rob- I just think that it is insightful, and also evidence of similar dynamics playing out in outher parts of the country where the prevailing majority is varied. I just feel that i got a glimpse into who jindal is and the issues that he may have. I think his name is pishyal - or something like that. i don't think a hindu named pishyul all else being identical would have been elected goevernor.

Pankaj,

Yes, but--really, no.
The reason Jindal's election is so huge is, we don't have to think that way anymore.

Obviously Americans are not secular... one has to leave Hinduism an embrace Christianity to become Governor. That is the net message.

Au contraire, in India, people do not look at religion while selecting CM. That is the true test of secularism. We have several Christian/Muslim/Sikh Chief ministers, Presidents etc

Anna and Razib, I think you guys stated the significance of this event best.

I didn't spring for either the Veuve Cliquot or the Moet (although the MO is delicious) but I did down an extra bed-time protein shake in honor of Messr. Jindal. I think we should focus, just like good libertarian-leaning economists, on the ABSOLUTE value of his victory and not the relative. As razib said, a generation ago he would have been dismissed as 'sand-nigger' and not even considered worth the money or effort by the RNC (which, for most state-level candidates not making Ron Paul noise {and raising funds outside the RNC network}, remains an organization from which you at least need tacit approval).

I'm trying to be positive. I think GujuDude raised an excellent point about how intolerant we've become of our opponents.

We are intolerant of their policies.

one generation ago bobby jindal would have been considered a n**ger by many of the people who voted for him. the fact that an asian american son of immigrants was elected to a position of executive power in the deep south in a state where his co-racialists are trivial in numbers says something about america.

Nig** please. Jindal co-opted the racist segment of the La voters by running as a hard right wanting no meddling from outsiders Republican. Thats not a color blind victory. Hey, Hirsi Ali is a darling of the xenophobic parties in Europe. Does the fact that the xenophobic quasi fascist parties in Europe love Hirsi evidence of the fact that they are embracing a Somali and dont care about race?

ANNA, I don't think it has anything to do with "Is Jindal undeserving of Congratulations just because he doesn't fit in to some neat little box of what a desi politician needs to be before everyone's fucking happy?" If Jindal was from any other racial/ethnic background I would also find his policies appalling because, for me at least, they are so far from the principles and programs I value as a voter. I'm with Speedy on this one.

Aside: I stand by my earlier statements, there are PLENTY of desi right-wingers (and hard right-wingers), they just don't post as frequently here :)

I have no idea how this is "bad for the community" other than he could a) be as terrible as Blanco, or b) give the false indication that all desis are uber-right wing. The only way to deal with the latter, in my opinion, is to run a lefty desi (and win) for Governor :)

I don't know how I feel, to be honest about this "historic moment." Not to diminish it -- it's significant. Maybe this is a generational difference.

that is true razib, but people who I feel exemplify what is so great about so many indian people; their emotional development is a result of years of grounding and experiences in india. One might go so far as to call bobby an abcd, he has an american sounding name that he uses, while he converted out of his ancestral religion.

What are we, in a SASA, again?

Nig** please. Jindal co-opted the racist segment of the La voters by running as a hard right wanting no meddling from outsiders Republican. Thats not a color blind victory. Hey, Hirsi Ali is a darling of the xenophobic parties in Europe. Does the fact that the xenophobic quasi fascist parties in Europe love Hirsi evidence of the fact that they are embracing a Somali and dont care about race?

has anybody made the argument that Jindal's win magically translates into the "End of Racism" for those who previously (and privately) embraced it? Obviously not. And Jindal's scholarship, as it were, is nowhere near as reductive and unproductive as Hirsi Ali's on Islam. Anyhow, let's remember he's a politician and not an international atheist/anti-immigrant/women's rights celebrity.

and not wanting 'outsiders' to meddle is not a sentiment confined to the right (while i acknowledge and realize it's race-baiting past as a coded term). People who live in the South can attest to the incredibly naive and reductive views about it that you sometimes encounter in people who don't live there. How many real Ashrams (meaning a place where people of all ages and families choose to live) and forest-academy style, old-school Bharatanatyam camps could you find outside the south? (Answer: none)

I think Anna's post hit the nail squarely in the head. You might disagree with his ideology/beliefs, but he is the first Indian American Governor ever (and that too in Louisiana) and thats why this is a historical moment in this country.

Plus being a governor is beyond polarizing issues like abortion. Just because he wants to ban abortion does not mean that Louisiana will not end up having better roads, better infrastructure, efficient state government, etc.

Jindal made no history. A conservative politician won an election in a conservative state. Next...

This has ZERO significance, emotional or otherwise, for the Indian-American community.

And Jindal's scholarship, as it were, is nowhere near as reductive and unproductive as Hirsi Ali's on Islam. Anyhow, let's remember he's a politician and not an international atheist/anti-immigrant/women's rights celebrity

I am not comparing Jindal to Hirsi Ali. I was using an analogy to illustrate the fact that just because racists/xenophobes embrace someone from a different race/country in an election, that by itself alone is not prima facie evidence of tolerance towards people of other races/foreigners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_American_firsts

Do you think that there was this much discussion against any of these firsts?

Plus being a governor is beyond polarizing issues like abortion.

I think ANNA's recommendation/analysis is fine, but [and this is not directed to ANNA] don't expect folks to "toe the line" just because YOU don't have a problem with his political rhetoric or policies.

Apparently his desi wife is a convert as well.

I think ANNA's recommendation/analysis is fine, but [and this is not directed to ANNA] don't expect folks to "toe the line" just because YOU don't have a problem with his political rhetoric or policies.

Whoa...i never said I dont have a problem with his views. All I said was its a historical first. Thats it.

I am not comparing Jindal to Hirsi Ali. I was using an analogy to illustrate the fact that just because racists/xenophobes embrace someone from a different race/country in an election, that by itself alone is not prima facie evidence of tolerance towards people of other races/foreigners.

Sure, but that seems like a conclusion you could make without him winning this election. I'll reference what I wrote in case you missed it like three comments ago:

has anybody made the argument that Jindal's win magically translates into the "End of Racism" for those who previously (and privately) embraced it? Obviously not.

I think ANNA's recommendation/analysis is fine, but [and this is not directed to ANNA] don't expect folks to "toe the line" just because YOU don't have a problem with his political rhetoric or policies.

perhaps you could explain why you feel that there is a 'line' to be toed? I've never felt that way, at least not on SM.

Sure, but that seems like a conclusion you could make without him winning this election. I'll reference what I wrote in case you missed it like three comments ago:

has anybody made the argument that Jindal's win magically translates into the "End of Racism" for those who previously (and privately) embraced it? Obviously not.

:) I was responding to this comment from Razib:

the fact that an asian american son of immigrants was elected to a position of executive power in the deep south in a state where his co-racialists are trivial in numbers says something about america. race will probably always matter, but how it matters makes a world of difference.

Chutiya,

I understand, but as I expressed earlier:

I think we should focus, just like good libertarian-leaning economists, on the ABSOLUTE value of his victory and not the relative.

Sure, it's not a moon landing for Desis, but it sure looks like the first step to securing funding for such a long-shot project. When my mother and I came to this country in the early 80s, this limited kind of victory didn't even seem possible. (and Dinesh D'Souza's elevation to white house-level policy advisor/wonk just didn't cut it.)

Ugh, perhaps I'm being inarticulate. First, yabadaba, I apologize if I was overly strident. I know you didn't say anything about accepting his policies. I just feel like there is a repetition along the lines of "you don't have to agree with him, but be proud of this historical moment." As far as I'm concerned, Jindal's politics are anathema. They are so problematic (to me) that I feel morally divided on whether I even think I could be a "good sport" and say I was pleased, excited, or celebratory about this occasion. He won legitimately and bully for him. I don't feel proud about this moment. Maybe that makes me petty. Fine, I can live with that.

He won legitimately and bully for him. I don't feel proud about this moment. Maybe that makes me petty. Fine, I can live with that.

Now, feeling conflicted about this whole deal is interesting. I mentioned this to my mother, who doesn't share his politics either, and she had pretty much the same reaction as myself--absolute value: excellent; sign for relative political progress in the country: perhaps not so much, but lets be thankful for 'small mercies' (if one can grin and bear it)

Camille,

I'm thinking the level of enthusiasm for his win might be correlated to age/point at which you got to the US? Are you an ABD/DBD, 80s-entrant? 90s-entrant?

This Blog spends so much time recognizing the first indian this and the first indian that. In an earlier post, you've got Ennis recognizing Renu Khator as the new president of the University of Houston. But when it comes to Jindal, most of you seem to be "conflicted" as if he's something less than human. The man was a Rhodes Scholar and the president of the LSU System. His policy positions- which I endorse wholeheartedly - are well thought out and reasoned. So why don't you all go back to your little east cost enclaves and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

VC - you're in favor of teaching intelligent design? That's not even a byproduct of his religion, he's a Catholic and Catholic's don't support ID.

Hey, if evolution is an east coast enclave position, I'm more than welcome to claim it. If red states want to embrace Copernican positions ...

murali, this is why I had mentioned that perhaps it's a "generational" difference. I'm an ABD whose parents were 1960s-70s entrants.

This Blog spends so much time recognizing the first indian this and the first indian that. In an earlier post, you've got Ennis recognizing Renu Khator as the new president of the University of Houston. But when it comes to Jindal, most of you seem to be "conflicted" as if he's something less than human. The man was a Rhodes Scholar and the president of the LSU System. His policy positions- which I endorse wholeheartedly - are well thought out and reasoned. So why don't you all go back to your little east cost enclaves and leave the rest of us the hell alone.

yeah Richmond and Buckingham Virginia are real 'east coast' enclaves where all the 'elites' get together, Protocols-stylee, to commiserate about conflicted feelings regarding a man who is so obviously smart yet thinks something as spurious anti-science as ID should be taught using tax-payer's money.

and nobody here feels conflicted over whether he is a human mammal or not--Jindal himself, however, might have a different opinion regarding the nature of and reason for his being alive.

VC, it's pretty comfortable demonizing Jindal's detractors, isn't it? Just as it's comfortable to assume that because you agree with his policies everyone in the states between the coasts do as well. Please, by all means I will enjoy my "enclave," and you can enjoy kicking it under your rock.

the acceptance speech

The good news is, there are no wrong reactions

This is from the original post and no personal offense, but it is a ridiculous statement. Of course there is a wrong reaction. The wrong reaction to Bobby Jindal (supportiveness) is one more step in the conservative, right-wing backlash takeover of the U.S. We are fighting a war for the cultural soul of the country, and even giving an inch to reactionaries like Jindal is dangerous. This is an existential battle, and there is no room for grey areas.

I can remember the sense of pride we Canuck desis felt when Ujjal Dosanj became the first Indo-Canadian provincial premier. So I can feel the same for my desi brothas and sistas to the south and for Bobby - despite his medieval stance on some issues!

This is from the original post and no personal offense, but it is a ridiculous statement. Of course there is a wrong reaction. The wrong reaction to Bobby Jindal (supportiveness) is one more step in the conservative, right-wing backlash takeover of the U.S. We are fighting a war for the cultural soul of the country, and even giving an inch to reactionaries like Jindal is dangerous. This is an existential battle, and there is no room for grey areas.

what like, "hehehe..you're either with us or you're against us...hehehe" ??

I think Samuel Huntington is calling Hari--and he'd like to collect a royalty check for your domestic cultural version of his civilizational-conflict thoery.

despite his medieval stance on some issues

power moderates and sobers rabid politicians so lets see. cheers

I suppose the question here is which has the larger effect (for better or worse) on the populace, Jindal being elected as a shining example that desis can and should aspire to such goals, or Jindal's socially conservative opinions and politics. Personally, I think that a brown man or woman would have been elected to such a position sooner or later (there is, after all, a gradual trend towards race-blindness in US politics) and thus this particular issue is not of major importance to me. However, his espoused views, for instance those regarding abortion or intelligent design, when wielded from a governor's office, are likely to have more real and immediate effects, and this is what concerns me.

So, with all due apologies to Anna, I shall leave my champagne flute unraised.

Venkat, #53

Obviously Americans are not secular... one has to leave Hinduism an embrace Christianity to become Governor. That is the net message.

Jindal converted in high school. This would mean that he specifically changed his religion as a teenager in order to further his as-yet nonexistent political career. You can't really assume that Jindal "left Hinduism and embraced Christianity to become Governor," unless there was a Hindu candidate and religion was an issue. AFAIK, there's never been a serious Hindu candidate for governor or senator anywhere in the Union.

Besides, there have been plenty of Jewish governors and senators (admittedly, I don't think there have been any in the south) so it's not like religion is a de facto bar to high office. The lack of Hindus or Muslims or Buddhists or (insert religion of choice here)in high is that people who don't identify themselves as Jewish, Christian, or atheist are less than 2% of the population.

Speedy

Besides, there have been plenty of Jewish governors and senators (admittedly, I don't think there have been any in the south) so it's not like religion is a de facto bar to high office... people who don't identify themselves as Jewish, Christian, or atheist are less than 2% of the population.

There has never been an openly atheist governor or senator in the past 100 years either.

This is from the original post and no personal offense, but it is a ridiculous statement. Of course there is a wrong reaction. The wrong reaction to Bobby Jindal (supportiveness) is one more step in the conservative, right-wing backlash takeover of the U.S.

You know what's ridiculous? You not allowing anyone to disagree with your take on this. I'm going to repeat what you dislike so much: there IS no wrong reaction. If I want to be happy, in a tiny way, for one night, for something amazing, I get to do that. You're not the Minister of Appropriate Reactions.

Supporting Jindal is wrong to you. What has angered me most is sentiments exactly like yours-- that there is ONE way for the desi community to feel about things and if we deviate from that, that is bad. There is no one way. "The community" is big enough to accommodate all of us, whether we are thrilled about every aspect of his ascendancy, choosing to be positive about what we can or, like Camille, not thrilled at all.

I get what Shaad-ji said, but I agree with Brij. Especially in Louisiana. If Jindal chooses to expend his energies on Intelligent Design or banning abortion before trying to put his battered state back together, I'll be the first to be disappointed. Raising one glass now doesn't take away my right to do that later.

Better than that, the next time some little kid decides that they want to be in government when they grow up, their immigrant parents now have a visual, a template, a precedent to latch on to...

Jindal's victory gives kids a mixed message. On one level, it shows that immigrant kids do have a shot at the political office of their dreams. But on another level, it also shows that in Bobby's case lots of morphing was involved, and what you become in order to get that dream might be unrecognizable/unpalatable to people from your community.
But overall, I would definitely toast a mimosa to Bobby. BTW, CANNOT hold it against him for changing his name, it was PIYUSH for gods sake! That would mean a lot of crappy recesses in elementary school, people!

Congratulations, Governor Jindal.

Now return to your constituencies and parishes and prepare for opposition (and the Crimson Tide).

I think I said it more than a week ago (and Camille you disagreed with me then too): in my opinion, this is a matter of (tempered) pride for our community, even if he doesn't consider himself desi and even if you don't agree with his policies. An INDIAN is governor of a U.S. state...just think about that. I can't get my mind around it. Bobby ne chakk ditte phatte!

To me, any person who is against another person's right to choose abortion is dangerous for the community as a whole. This person would not have gotten my vote if i could have voted. He is too conservative for my taste. Its like wishing Bush for his "victory". I'm really just not as big as Anna is, to be happy about the election of a hard-core conservative to a socially influential position. Or maybe she's Republican.

I see a lot of posts here equating Bobby Jindal to a bigot for the sole reason that he is a Republican and ran on a religious platform. To those people, I say that this says a lot more about your intolerant views than Jindal. It also amazes me that people here are critical on choice of name for his son. Give the guy a chance. He has done that no desi has ever done. It paves the way for desis to accomplish more. As a Libertarian, I am diagonally opposite to Jindal on social issues, but I have a smile and already raised my Peach flavored Diet Snapple in his victory.

Vic --

I can't speak for others, but for me it's not about him personally being a bigot, which I don't believe to be the case, but his willingness to indulge and pander to bigotry, both personally and in his campaign. And that has nothing to do with his religious or political views as such, or what he chooses to name his son (or himself). Compare the following:

Martin Luther King, Jr's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail":

Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.

Bobby Jindal's latter day "Southern Manifesto":

On Sept. 20, the day people from throughout the nation gathered in Jena to march in protest of the unjust treatment of the Jena 6, gubernatorial candidate Bobby Jindal was in Shreveport speaking to students at LSUS. When asked about the impact of racial conflict in Louisiana, his response was déjà vu — unpleasantly reminiscent of the words and attitudes of southern politicians of not so long ago. When asked to comment on the demonstration in Jena, he said, "We don't need anybody to divide us. We certainly don't need outside agitators to cause problems." Accusing "outside agitators" of causing problems is a scapegoat and an attempt to avoid taking responsibility for the unresolved issue of race and fair and equal treatment. [link]

Now, does this represent every last aspect of his being and character? No, of course not. Is it nevertheless part and parcel of his victory? Absolutely. When our community's "victories" even in part come on the backs of other people, I think we should stop and reflect upon that. Why wasn't this Jindal's "macaca moment" as far as our community was concerned -- or if not quite that blatant, at least a moment akin to the comments by Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, or the campaign of Barack Obama?

It's definitely an achievement to have a South Asian as a US governor, not just for us but for minorities and first/second-generation immigrant/minority groups everywhere. But I must say, Anna's statement about being happy that "someone who looks like her" is now there left a really bad taste in my mouth. I think one of the excellent things about the US is that we have the opportunity to both be true to our culture and to transcend cultural boundaries. I know that's idealistic, but the thought of being happy for someone based on his race/color alone makes me really uncomfortable and just doesn't seem right at all. But different people have different opinions and are entitled to theirs, as she also said.

And like others have said, it really is kind of sad that he essentially had to downplay his immigrant/foreign status in order to get this position--and I don't like the intelligent design/abortion angle at all, either. Did we really gain something by him becoming governor?

Or can it be argued that this was just the first step and will open the doors for future minority politicians who are willing to embrace their culture while in office to be elected?

i'm very disappointed that this blog has decided to congratuate a bigot and homophobe, and ask that I congratulate him because he's desi and risen so far? No thanks.. Don't we have enough of these crazies running this country into the ground? Well, I've been reading this blog for two years, and this is my last visit.

While I am happy for him - the reality is that he would not have come close to winning if he were a Hindu, and certainly would not have had a chance if he were a Muslim. This is a victory for skin color. It is certainly not a victory for the rainbow of different cultures and religions that make up the fabric of the new America.

Pied piper

His response was to race baiting opportunist like Al Sharpton was spot on. Louisiana did not need people like Al Sharpton to come in and create a photo opportunity and make this into another Duke Rape case fiasco. The analogy to what Martin Luther said does not apply to charlatans like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. As far as Jena 6 case, people are using an excuse to point out one wrong to do another wrong.

People throw bigot and nazi word around so freely that the word gets cheapened. Real bigotry is alive and well in this country. You don't have to go far than the discussion forum of the New Orleans newspaper (www.nola.com) where people are commenting on how ugly his looks are and that Lousiana outsourced its governor.

Bobby Jindal is a very smart and hardworking administrator, who in my view is going to turn around America's most depressed state. At least economically Lousiana is going to benefit tremendously from his governorship. And that's what matters the most. Moreover now that he is a governor, I doubt Jindal is going to waste time pushing a divisive social agenda.

Barack Obama decided against physically participating in the Jena protest as well. There's more to the Jena case than some rich White people ganging up on poor Black people. That's why I recommend you read a very well balanced piece on the Jena issue in The Economist.

# 83 Speedy

In India, in both state and at the national level, a candidate has never had to hide the fact that he is a non-hindu or downplay this aspect of his identity in order to get elected. The commmunity a candidate belongs to, matter a lot, but it would be wrong to think of indian communities as subsets of religions (For example Nadars)

To the majority of hindus, this is irrelavant. The minority of hindu voters who would not vote for a muslim/chirstian/etc are more than balanced by the number of muslims/christians who are biased towards a candidate from their religion.

In the US, this has not been the case. It does not matter why Jindal changed his religion in the context of the secular/non-secular fabric of the american electorate.
What matters is that without the change Jindal would not have been elected as a Governor today.

Besides, there have been plenty of Jewish governors and senators

#53 Venkat

Au contraire, in India, people do not look at religion while selecting CM.

While I understand the significance of the first caca in office, I lament the fact that he is a champion of views diametrically oriented to my own. In any case, it could be worse, like when David Duke found his way into congress. So while I won't be tipping up a cup of bubbly to commemorate this occasion, I will take note of the fact that there's a brown governor in the state of LA.

I am not a fan of Jindal the person though. I believe his precocious political ambition led him