ardworking New York ACLU lawyer who is also the daughter

fixed.

off course in the last several yearS

You can delete my comment - it's just to inform you.

Sorry guys, I'm out of practice because I haven't had time to blog as regularly of late. It isn't like a bike unfortunately :)

Abhi can't spell, Abhi can't spell, Ne Ne Ne Ne Ne Ne! Like father lke son. Kudos to Amrit Singh and Jameel Jaffer. It's about time someone tell it like it is.

I won't be holding my breath for Ms.Singh [aka Ms.Hypocrite] to write a book or even a critical article on her father's corrupt administration which is killing and torturing innocent people in Kashmir, the Indian North East, Chattisgarh, Jharkand and various other states in the union.
Not to mention, offering Member of Parliament positions to noted felons, who have murdered, kidnapped and raped their constituents into submission in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

I won't be holding my breath for Ms.Singh [aka Ms.Hypocrite] to write a book or even a critical article on her father's corrupt administration which is killing and torturing innocent people in Kashmir, the Indian North East, Chattisgarh, Jharkand and various other states in the union.

Just for the rest of the folks, the above is a prime example of what we refer to here at SM as an "illiterate and content-free" comment. It probably qualifies as "obscure rant" as well.

Just for the rest of the folks, the above is a prime example of what we refer to here at SM as an "illiterate and content-free" comment. It probably qualifies as "obscure rant" as well.

Obscure rant? Nafar is questioning the potential hypocrisy of Manmohan's daughter.

I think the point is that this has very little to do with Amrit Singh and Jameel Jaffer's book. Criticizing a person for doing the "wrong kind of good" is a favorite habit of trolls around here. "She's a hypocrite because she's not doing what I want her to be doing. What a bitch!"

I'm going to pick up a copy of this at the airport and read on the plane this week. I don't think that her being Manmohan Singh's daughter really has much to do with this work regarding torture at Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, etc, and if you have evidence otherwise, please share and cite.

Am baffled how this qualifies for being 'illiterate and content free'

The comment is totally irrelevant to the post. Melbourne Desi if your dad was the Prime Minister of Australia and you had been living in the U.S. for like the last 10 years and written a book about the lack of recycling in the U.S., would it be ok if someone called you a hypocrite for not writing a book about Australia's failure to sign the Kyoto Accords?

I know what Nafar was doing and it qualifies firmly as an obscure rant.

Abhi, dahling,
As always this one appreciates your posts

alack-a-day:

bare witness to

please please fix, there's a dear
...

Abhi: Great post!

Kudos to Singh and Jaffer. Two desis are fighting for the American way. Way to go!

Seriously,
What am amazing book. I'm surprised the administration didn't somehow shut her down. In spite of whatever is in the book, much will never be said.
Dead men spaketh not.

please please fix, there's a dear

Arggh! The reason that commenters 1 and 3 didn't catch that is because it said "bear witness" originally. After their comments I flew into a paranoid tailspin which resulted in "bare witness." :)

McCain for all his saber rattling on Iran might actually be better on torture and executive powers than Hillary Clinton. I think suspension of habeas corpus, torture of detainees, Gitmo detention are very serious challenges facing this nation and any President who pussy foots around these issues does not deserve to be the President.

After their comments I flew into a paranoid tailspin which resulted in "bare witness." :)

Poor abhi. We should be paying you more. Clearly, one can't run SM on black tea, vadas, and bidis.

Insofar as being part of a democracy is the right to fair trial by a jury of your peers, America is a democracy no longer.

Thank you for posting about this very interesting book...

and the incredible picture of Jaffer...what a hottie!

Melbourne Desi if your dad was the Prime Minister of Australia and you had been living in the U.S. for like the last 10 years and written a book about the lack of recycling in the U.S., would it be ok if someone called you a hypocrite for not writing a book about Australia's failure to sign the Kyoto Accords?

1) No. If you are individual who is totally exclusive of your parent.
2) Yes. If you are a part of a family and your parent's deeds cant be divorced from you.

Different outlook - different responses. But I take your point since you are from position (1) while Nafar is from Position (2)

Abhi - I genuinely feel that her book and she personally is hypocritical. To date, she has not criticized her father's party even once. And I am sure she is well aware of his transgressions.

Instead of the scenario you proffer in # 10, consider If your father's company hired goons, who killed, raped and looted people with impunity, wouldn't it be morally incumbent upon you to criticize him before critiquing your neighbor who was equally horrible.

1) No. If you are individual who is totally exclusive of your parent. 2) Yes. If you are a part of a family and your parent's deeds cant be divorced from you.

Different outlook - different responses. But I take your point since you are from position (1) while Nafar is from Position (2)

Most of the bloggers who posted comments critical of Jindal also took position #2, harping on his desertion of his parents' culture and religion. In this context though, it apparently is ok for Amrit Singh to be viewed separately from her familial connections. And you can guess why.

Seriously, some of you people need a head-check. How many people do you know that are going to go out of their way to criticize their parents in Public?? Nafar, when was the last time you criticized one of your parents in public? I'm curious.

This post is not about India or Manmohan. Let's leave India out of it.

Vikram, as usual you don't make any sense.

Vikram, as usual you don't make any sense.

That's your opinion... I'm sure sure some will see my point.

That's your opinion... I'm sure sure some will see my point.

Why don't you write a blog post about your point. Once it is clear I'll comment on it.

ok... just to point out that your opening line on this post reads:

Amrit Singh, the hardworking New York ACLU lawyer who is also the daughter of the current Indian Prime Minister

You have highlighted the very detail in your post that you now want people to ignore in their comments about about Ms. Singh. If her connection to India and Manmohan Singh were not of any relevance then why is it the leading line in your own description of her ? Obviously you see her familial connection of relevance. But none of the other bloggers are supposed to comment on that piece of information ? Please explain.

You have highlighted the very detail in your post that you now want people to ignore in their comments about about Ms. Singh. If her connection to India and Manmohan Singh were not of any relevance then why is it the leading line in your own description of her?

Because I know from all our previous posts that someone would bring that fact up in the comments and (like Nafar) derail the conversation. Just like a good press secretary I like to get stuff like that out of the way from the beginning so we don't waste time with such revelations here in the comments. Pointless I suppose since it happened anyways. Besides, I think its really cool that unlike some progeny of world leaders, she is really smart and successful on her own.

I still recommend that you start a blog though.

Interesting ....I never knew that there was somebody called Amrit Singh and that she was a daughter of Indian PM.

How many people do you know that are going to go out of their way to criticize their parents in Public??

Speaking of daughters and their well known fathers, there was one who did just that: Patti Davis

I still recommend that you start a blog though.

I'll keep that in mind... though am curious as to why you recommend it for me in particular as opposed the other posters here.

though am curious as to why you recommend it for me in particular as opposed the other posters here.

Because you are the only one that repeatedly commits egregious tu quoque violations.

Because you are the only one that repeatedly commits egregious tu quoque violations

Hmm... considering I've barely made a handful of posts here in the past 6 months, that seems that I hold that dubious record. :). Maybe Nafar & I should talk about that blog.

I think she is a smart woman and her book sounds interesting, But, Abhi, if one feels that Manmohan Singh runs an administration that is as outrageous as the one that is run by George Bush, then Nafar's comment is right on the topic. Now, let's say Bush's daughter writes about indian administration and you do really think her being the daughter of Bush has not relevance to any discussion. I disagree. Context is always relevant to any discussion especially when you yourself introduced her as indian pm's daughter. in this particular case, torture or physical force is a commonly used tactic in indian law enforcement - and there is a degree of hypocrisy in there, but i can look past that, because i think it is better to be hypocritic at times than being outright blind to injustice.

No seriously.. Some of the comments are ridiculous.. This post has nothing to do with Amrit being Manmohan Singh's daughter. Why don't we talk about the issue at hand - systemic illegal torture of terror detainees by the US military and sanctioned by the US administration.

If one of Bush daughters wrote something attacking another goverment. Everybody and there sister would be attacking her and bringing up her father goverment. So this works both ways.

Also I love how there is more outrage for the treatment of these prisoners at Gitmo bay. Many of there people who only's goal in life is kill as many americans as possible. I will rather have outrage for the all the innocent victim of islamic terrorism the past several years.

I just love how the far left gives radical islam a free pass when they are attacking Bush.

Let's leave India out of it.

Let's not.

i'm going to do my part to make this thread less acerbic, and say... jameel is cute. :)

Lets keep ManMohan in, and while we're at being irrelevant to the current post, let me tell you why I think MM is the greatest PM since Aurangzeb:

[comment deleted by admin]

Next comment about Manmohan gets deleted and I will then ban the user. Is that more clear?

Anyone with at least half a brain understands that as dishonesty begets dishonesty, truth begets truth: Putting the spotlight on this major scandal of American torture will inevitably kickstart debates about torture in other parts of the world (pick any).

Not talking about the torture, on the other hand, is exactly what the guilty want. So keep talking. This book is an important event, and will have political repercussions far and wide.

To condemn torture, any torture, is -- emphatically -- NOT to "side with the terrorists." To side with the torturers is, morally and practically, to side with nihilism... the first step on the path to becoming an actual terrorist.

Torture does not work, except in order to terrorize.

I want Al-Qaeda stopped. I loathe them with a passion. And so far, the Bush administration has proved impotent to produce this result.

This won't be the last book about state-sponsored torture. It could set off a whole wave of them.

Abhi,

Why have you deleted my comment? It wasn't about MM at all. It was a plea to stick to the topic at hand. You have a problem understanding prose. Go back to school.

Sm gotten to be a more hostile environment lately. Nothing wrong with that -- no need for everyone to get along if they disagree on fundamental issues.

More importantly -- what great pictures of Amrit and Jameel. Smart, good-looking (but not too good looking) , caring, concerned. (Jameel's expression -- I care, I'm going to get things done, but I'm informal enough to loosen my tie. And I'm no Desi Dorky-geek.)

Refocusing away from whether Amrit had properly denounced Ranjit Singh's conquest of Peshawar in 1818 (how dare she criticize the war in Iraq when she hasn't denounced that conquest of Multan. She's such a hypocrite!) -- who looks more 'attractive-concwerned-civil-libertarian' in the picture?

Even those of who generally agree with the administration that radical Islam has to be dealt with using the military and not law enforcement, should have issues with this government's use of rendition, waterboarding and other torture techniques on people who were not even convicted of anything.

Hopefully, this book will convince a lot of the republicans who are curently running for congress/presidency ( Iam looking at you Rudy) that torture should not be employed. I do not think we can convince the current administration of this. Also, Mukasey should not be confirmed unless he says waterboarding is torture and agrees to do the best he can to bring people who approve these techniques to justice.

I will read this book.

# 7 "Just for the rest of the folks, the above is a prime example of what we refer to here at SM as an "illiterate and content-free" comment. It probably qualifies as "obscure rant" as well."

Unlike the erudite and insightful comments like # 18's,"and the incredible picture of Jaffer...what a hottie!", and # 40's, "More importantly -- what great pictures of Amrit and Jameel. Smart, good-looking (but not too good looking) , caring, concerned. (Jameel's expression -- I care, I'm going to get things done, but I'm informal enough to loosen my tie. And I'm no Desi Dorky-geek.)"

It's ironic that you so strenuously delineate the rules for comments on a book, which is penned by two ACLU lawyers who fight for free speech in all it's form, however odious.

While I also advocate shutting Gitmo down - if it were, would Singh & Jaffer write a follow-up book on political prisoners in Cuba in facilities not run by Americans? Also, is SM going to keep a list of politicians that are off limits for discussion now?

Also, is SM going to keep a list of politicians that are off limits for discussion now?

misunderstood? not off limits for discussion, but off-topic for discussion.

i'm going to do my part to make this thread less acerbic, and say... jameel is cute. :)

not off limits for discussion, but off-topic for discussion.

Even though her famous lineage is mentioned in the opening sentence of the intial post? Jindal's parents, who are not public figures, can be discussed at length in a thread stretching over 500 comments, but the PM of the world's largest democracy cannot? As earlier posters have noted, if Jenna Bush wrote a book critical of Indian policies, her famous dad would be brought up immediately,, and rightly so.

KXB,

She works and lives in the United States. If she worked for an international organization that monitored the worlds' governments and then selectively faulted the Bush administration, your point would be well taken.

As earlier posters have noted, if Jenna Bush wrote a book critical of Indian policies, her famous dad would be brought up immediately,, and rightly so.

You're right that they would probably bring up her father, but they would, rhetorically, be wrong to do so. It's a mistake to judge a serious person's arguments by what their famous parents did or said.

Amrit Singh is a serious person with an independent career and a bright future. I'm also quite sure that she got her current job quite separately from the fact that her father is a head of state. (As I understand it, she started work with the ACLU before May 2004; back then Manmohan Singh wasn't very well known in the U.S.) So we should judge her work on the merits, not because we have a particular partisan orientation to the political situation in India.

Strictly speaking, a "rigorous" review of this book wouldn't even mention who Amrit Singh's father is. In a blog post one often includes that kind of detail to try and get readers interested...

Plus the point is that she works for ACLU, on that count compariosn with jenna is not correct. Does anyone know if she is a US citizen, I remember reading that somewhere and can't seem to find the link.

Wow!

I see Amrit every week at my classical Indian vocal lessons. She is really talented, friendly and all-round awesome. She mentioned on a couple of occasions in class that her work with the ACLU concerns torture, but I got the shock of my life when I saw her picture and book here on SM. Oh, and the daughter-of-Indian-PM part too I learned just now!

The book is about torture in this administration, not about the Indian government, so please lay off on personal attacks on Amrit. And I am obviously not going to say any more about her 'cause she is a good friend.

"Next comment about Manmohan gets deleted and I will then ban the user. Is that more clear?"

what are you guys so afraid of? jeez..

would Singh & Jaffer write a follow-up book on political prisoners in Cuba in facilities not run by Americans?

Good point. Shit, I should call up all my employment discrimination clients and tell them to get another lawyer because I am such a hypocrite as I havnt represented anyone facing religious discrimination in Saudi Arabia or racial discrimination in Japan.

"Next comment about Manmohan gets deleted and I will then ban the user. Is that more clear?"

what are you guys so afraid of? jeez..

Nobody is afraid of any issue. Bringing up Manmohan Singh on a discussion about GITMO is an annoying obfuscation.

what are you guys so afraid of? jeez.

Not sure - democracies engaging in torture is shameful, but not uncommon. I guess Clinton had the good sense to outsource it to Egyptians and Filipinos when he needed such dirty work done. Great Britain, India, and Israel have often fallen short of their democractic ideals in this area - but evidently Dubya is so uniquely awful, the the discussion must be kept within very tight parameters.

Good point. Shit, I should call up all my employment discrimination clients and tell them to get another lawyer because I am such a hypocrite as I havnt represented anyone facing religious discrimination in Saudi Arabia or racial discrimination in Japan.

I don't see where I called them hypocrites, but is it that big of a surprise that one can sell more books lambasting the U.S. than one can in going after a 50 year dictatorship? Go where there is money to made adn NPR interviewers await, I say.

Bringing up Manmohan Singh on a discussion about GITMO is an annoying obfuscation.

Which can only be remedied by banning.

I guess Clinton had the good sense to outsource it to Egyptians and Filipinos when he needed such dirty work done.

Clinton was wrong to do it as well, if he did in fact do it. That is what concerns me about Hillary. She is triangulating on torture which is not cool. McCain is actually better on torture than Hillary.

Great Britain, India, and Israel have often fallen short of their democractic ideals in this area

Could you cite some evidence of Great Britain outsourcing torture. I am not being incredulous, just unaware.

I don't see where I called them hypocrites, but is it that big of a surprise that one can sell more books lambasting the U.S. than one can in going after a 50 year dictatorship?

If Cuba had a free press, I am sure a lot of Cubans will be buying books on a lack of habeas corpus in Cuba. NPR is National Public Radio and most if not all its audience is American or people living in the US. Its no surprise that most of the audience is more interested about what happens in the US than in some Banana Republic halfway across the World.

Could you cite some evidence of Great Britain outsourcing torture. I am not being incredulous, just unaware.

Sorry if I was unclear - but during the worst of the Irish troubles, the Brits did torture some Irish suspected of having IRA ties. They did not outsource.

In the case of Clinton, after a massacre of several dozen Western tourists near Luxor, the suspects were rumored to be in Albania. Egypt did not have the men or resources to seize them, but the U.S. did. Knowing that Mubarak has ben a good friend to the U.S for years, Clinton had them captured and sent to Egypt - where most were quickly tried and executed.

In the case of the Philippines torturing suspects under American supervision, there was the case of Hakim Murad.

She is triangulating on torture which is not cool. McCain is actually better on torture than Hillary.. True - but McCain's "bomb bomb bomb Iran" rhetoric does not make him much better in terms of regional stability.

HOLY CRAP, this made me see red so badly I came out of lurking. I swear, some of you people just spend your lives looking for ways to be contrary and annoying.

Vikram
1) No. If you are individual who is totally exclusive of your parent. 2) Yes. If you are a part of a family and your parent's deeds cant be divorced from you.
Different outlook - different responses. But I take your point since you are from position (1) while Nafar is from Position (2)

There's no such thing as #2, fool. Every person is an individual. Only an idiot judges other people by the actions of their family. See: law. See also: common sense.

Most of the bloggers who posted comments critical of Jindal also took position #2, harping on his desertion of his parents' culture and religion. In this context though, it apparently is ok for Amrit Singh to be viewed separately from her familial connections. And you can guess why.

What the...?! You know, you can totally turn THIS around, too. Here, try this: all the people who OPPOSE Bobby Jindal do so because he turns his back on his parents' upbringing and community, and Amrit Singh is simply being a good daughter by keeping her mouth shut where her father is concerned. Or here's another one: people who support Bobby Jindal blindly do so at their own expense, regardless of his own feelings and politics to them as voters. Amrit Singh is very concerned for her father's political well-being, and is thus a very good person.

Either way, it's so off-base and off-topic as to be completely irrelevant. And those were some seriously mind-bendingly goofy mental gymnastics you engaged in to get here.

Instead of the scenario you proffer in # 10, consider If your father's company hired goons, who killed, raped and looted people with impunity, wouldn't it be morally incumbent upon you to criticize him before critiquing your neighbor who was equally horrible.

"Morally incumbent" to criticize my father before my neighbor? What? I don't think there's a prioritization schedule for morality. It can be FIFO, or it can be multitasking. Take your pick.

Again with the "she does not do the good I want her to do, so she is a hypocrite!" Fah. Disgusting. It's inevitable: people who try to do good deeds get picked to death by idiots.

Why should Amrit Singh talk about at India at all?

1) She is a subject matter expert on torture in America – not on torture by her father’s party.
It is natural for someone to write books only on what they have an expertise on.
2) She wrote the book for the ACLU:
The American Civil Liberties Union, focuses on American Civil Liberties. For Amrit to go off-topic to talk about India would be unprofessional, unethical, and a waste of ACLU’s money (unless it is used to emphasize a point in the book).
Even if she had talked about India, a good editor would have removed the pages to prevent unnecessary distraction and bloat in the book.

Clueless If one of Bush daughters wrote something attacking another goverment. Everybody and there sister would be attacking her and bringing up her father goverment. So this works both ways.

Bush's daughters have not established themselves as experts in any field in their own right (except maybe for partying). Americans do not know or care, who Manmohan Khan (or is it Gandhi?) is and give two hoots about India. Besides, did you read many articles accusing Jenna of hippocracy regarding Dubya's policies regarding condoms, when she signed a deal to write a story about a HIV patient?

Loyalty to ones family is considered to be a moral trait in its own right. No one blamed Caroline guliani when she removed her support if Obama from public view.

Finally this is all irrelvant given the context in which Amrit wrote the book.

I don't like Jameel's hair.

HOLY CRAP, this made me see red so badly I came out of lurking. I swear, some of you people just spend your lives looking for ways to be contrary and annoying.

If you unbunch your panties and pay attention you might figure out what's going on through the red vision... The point was that nobody viewed Jindal as an individual. Rather all his actions were viewed through the lens of his religion, culture and his family and even meaningless details like his children's names. But Amrit Singh is to be viewed as an individual.I'm not personally interested in Amrit's family connections, just the strange varying yardsticks of judgement in these two cases.

The point was that nobody viewed Jindal as an individual. Rather all his actions were viewed through the lens of his religion, culture and his family and even meaningless details like his children's names.

BS Vikram. The people who dislike Jindal dislike him explicitly for his policies. He is anti-evolution, anti-abortion, and pro-ten commandments in government buildings. All of those things have a DIRECT effect on his constituents (and the nation through his former participation in Congress). It has nothing to do with his family like you posit. There are plenty of Christians in America who don't believe it is ok to teach bunk creationism in class. That is why your red herring of an argument has myself and others seeing red. They don't make any sense.

There's no such thing as #2, fool. Every person is an individual. Only an idiot judges other people by the actions of their family. See: law. See also: common sense

So blinded by your fury that you targeted the wrong person. I made the comment about (1) and (2).

A minimal understanding of human society will show that position (2) is valid. Position(2) may not be true in your frame of reference but that does not mean that it is wrong. Your ignorance of human society outside of USA is scary.

Only an idiot judges other people by the actions of their family.

The people who dislike Jindal dislike him explicitly for his policies. He is anti-evolution, anti-abortion, and pro-ten commandments in government buildings

And all of this inhibits his ability to reform Louisiana - how? While he may personally hold the positions you say, he has not been pushing these positions awfully hard, nor is there any polling data that shows these were what Louisiana voters had in mind when voting for him.

Pose the same questions to Ms. Singh - suppose she were anti-abortion (a position not unheard of among immigrant Indian women), would that make her criticism of Bush's policies on torture less damning?

And all of this inhibits his ability to reform Louisiana - how?

How the hell can you expect Louisiana residents to reform Louisiana (particularly the woefully inept education system) if their new governor thinks it is ok that they are taught creationism in school?

Don't even answer that. All this is serving to do is further confuse this issue and take away from the original post. This post is not about Jindal. It is about criminal torture by the U.S. govt.

The people who dislike Jindal dislike him explicitly for his policies.It has nothing to do with his family like you posit.

Oh ? Perhaps you can tell me what this sampling of comments from the Jindal thread mean:

[deleted by admin]

For the last time. I don't give a f*ck about other threads or topics. I don't write every post on this site nor do I moderate or even read them all. I do write my posts however and this one is about Singh, Jaffer, the ACLU and torture. It isn't a place for you to grind your axe on other issues.

I don't give a f*ck about other threads or topics. I don't write every post on this site nor do I moderate or even read them all.

Ok fair enough. I thought the implication in your comment about why people disliked Jindal was that you were familiar with that thread.

63 · Jasmine on October 29, 2007 06:44 PM · Direct link

I don't like Jameel's hair.

WHaaa! have you seen' Jindal's hair??

sorry.

dingchak, Jasmine,

You risk getting into Abhi's hair. Assuming he has any.

I wish this smart lady was helping her dad in many ways. Her talent, analytical skills and ideas can be used in the growing world which needs direction and effective leaders