November 07, 2007
Two Things I Think We Can All Agree OnFashion
1) Padma Lakshmi may not be the sharpest tool in the shed:
“Padma Lakshmi,” she hoped, might one day be on as many food labels as “Paul Newman”—“a big hero.” Soon there would be Padma jewelry and fashion, “like Jennifer Lopez,” she said, and television and cookware, “like Martha Stewart.” In September, she sealed a major deal with IMG, the sports-and-entertainment marketing giant. “She has a global image and no end of ideas,” said John Steele, a senior V.P., “so we have multiple agreements.” “Like,” Padma said, “Tiger Woods.” How amazing was it that she, the daughter of a single mother who fled India to escape the stigma of divorce, was poised to become the first Indian woman with an American brand—perhaps the first to self-brand. “I’m as American as anyone else,” she has said. (link)
Ah yes, comparing yourself to Martha Stewart, Jennifer Lopez, and Tiger Woods in a single paragraph. Why not also go for P Diddy, to round out your own private Macy’s commercial of utter delusion? (Read on for more wince-worthy quotes…)
2) But she knows how to work the hair:
(Thanks for the tip, KXB. I know you read Vanity Fair for the articles, too.)
amardeep on November 7, 2007 01:20 PM in Fashion · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
FWIW - I did not Google Padma Lakshmi. I went to the Vanity Fair website, and this is the first thing that is there. I swear!
A wince-worthy article and a wince-worthy photograph. I am surprised--OK, maybe not surprised--that she photographed with her feet on a table next to food.
i'll have to disagree. she may be overly ambitious (not a crime in america), but i don't find her dumb at all. at least she seems to know what she wants. the main thing i found wince-worthy was the swearing. if she was a south asian male aspiring to be like the big names in whatever their field is, would they be accused of being deluded?
i'll have to disagree.
Somehow I had a feeling my title was a bit presumptuous.
Whaaa! More anti-Hindu writing from Amardeep! Here we go advancing the pseudo secularist agenda again and pandering to Muslims.
Kurma,
Is this necessary? please give people more credit, it makes me really uncomfortable how people handle differing views on internet forums. I think it somehow unleashes our inner desire to throw caution to the wind and be nasty to people.
Desi, I believe Kurma is making a joke.
Joke is on me then, my apologies :) Need some training in reading internet humor, or may be it is my unfunny desi bone;)
Kurma - get a life. Pseudo religionists/ pseudo nationalists really seem to be trying hard to find fire where there isn't even smoke.
"Somehow I had a feeling my title was a bit presumptuous."
not to mention overly ambitious as well:) it's hard to find even one thing around here on which people can agree (not that they necessarily should), much less two things:)
oops, my apologies too.
The only thing about Padma that I don't appreciate about her is that she *always* mentions that she's a Tamil Brahmin, and not just a Tamil. Kind of as if she's ashamed of just being a Tamil, without the hyphen. This kind of reminds me of this one Indian girl from India. But she'd always refer to her place of origins as Bombay, and not just India. Her tone of voice was that "there is India, and then there is Bombay".
Ah! So now we are supposed to buy food products marketed by models?
do tamil brahmins eat meat? she seems to have no issue eating all sorts of things on top chef.
Boston Mahesh,
I'm not a Tamil Brahmin myself, but if I hear anyone describing themselves as one, I think it's just them giving you a extra tit bit about themselves. I don't read too much into it. Kinda like how some folks say they are Irish-Catholic, it instantly gives you an idea of what their traditional family background is.
Regarding people saying they are from Bombay, and some undercurrent of 'superiority', it's funny another friend of mine mentioned it sometime back. I guess again I never read that much into it. I was born in Bombay but raised in Dubai and now live in the US. So these days when people ask me where I live, I say 'California', I hope I'm not giving out signals that CA is in some way better than the rest of the US, I am just saving time having to go through first nation then state and so on.
Oh go easy on poor Padma. It ain't easy running a cottage empire when you're stoned all the time. You too might swear, put your feet up where they don't belong and obsess on comparisons if you smoked like a chimney.
Oops, sorry guys. I was indeed joking. I just like the illogic of the prefix pseudo. I mean, shouldn't it be the secularists accusing anyone of being a pseudo secularist. Why would a self-proclaimed non-secularist care? Yet it's always religious types who accuse of pseudo secularism, liberals who say that someone is not a true conservative, conservatives who accuse of pseudo-liberalism, non-vegetarians who accuse vegetarians of not being really vegetarian by consuming milk or eggs or whatever.
Sorry for the disruption of what's clearly going to be a smoothly flowing thread, what with a picture like that to start it off. Boston Mahesh has an interesting point. Yes, I've seen some 2/1.5 genners distancing themselves from Tamilness (because the only Tamil thing some Westerners know are the Tamil Tigers and no one wants to be associated with terrorists, right?). But in the case of Padma who doesn't seem bothered by being exotic, perhaps she thinks it gets her extra points to be Brahman. Like "Eastern princess" is more desirable than "Eastern woman"...
Or it could be just Western desis (like ABDs) are simply not sensitive to the implications of caste, not having seen the bitterness it can generate. I haven't seen DBDs mention their caste casually (unless they really are the jerk type), whereas it can often come in innocent remarks from ABDs who think it simply encapsulates their heritage. Someone on a recent thread remarked about a similar lack of understanding on the part of newly arrived DBDs who might say "you people" to a black person in the US (referring to simply the set of people at that place), something than an American (in his/her right mind) would not do.
Personally, I find it somewhat offensive that she is putting her feet on the table where she has food. Its right up there with putting feet on books etc. I know she is trying to make it erotic (sexuality + recipes= success?) but that was a little strange, especially with her going all "I'm a desi goddess". I'll admit it, I've used that bit before but feet + food= definite no-no.
... if I hear anyone describing themselves as one ...
I think of them as uneducated. They are ignorant of history, societal oppresion and genetics.
Kinda like how some folks say they are Irish-Catholic, it instantly gives you an idea of what their traditional family background is.
Is it "kinda like how folks say he is a chamar, she is a bhangi" and you go eww ... ?
Meenakshi, sure it's there for erotic value. That scene could be right out of Shakira's video of 'La Tortura', for instance. See 00:56 in the linked video.
Maybe she's trying to score some brownie (no pun intended ;)) points with the in-crowd.
Very off putting until one realizes that in Hindi, for example, "op log", or "you people" is used all the time to adress, well, people. A few, a group, or a crowd. But in English it sounds very rude.
amardeep,
i just found out that you were offended by my criticism on your last article. i apologize for that. but cmon man, you are a grown man, you should be able to take some criticism, even if you dont like it. Thats how successful people better themselves in life. so will you please stop banning me after every comment i make. i would appreciate that.
hopefully, no hard feelings.
amaun,
Is it "kinda like how folks say he is a chamar, she is a bhangi" and you go eww ... ?
I don't know what 'chamar' or 'bhangi' is. Also, I am referring to how people describe themselves, not others.
Do you feel the 'eww' factor when people say they are Irish-Catholics too?
If she wants to advertise herself as "tam-brahm" than she should behave in a brahminical fashion.
Those following the hygenic-ethical/moral-dietary codes of the brahmin culture would not eat dead flesh nor put their feet on a table where food is placed for preparation or for eating. Walk the walk before you talk the talk.
Actions speak louder than words.
This is my problem with really hot women, they are way to confident!!
She basically reads recipes and then tries to make the food on her tv show. The reason it does so well? Just a bunch of horny guys holding there gentials in there hands and waiting for her to lick the spoon.
The power of a hot women conquers all, for ex. this is what probably happened to Salamn Rushdie when he first saw Padma.
Fellow writer: So Salman tell us about your new book.
Salman: Ahh yes, it is a book that ask's how can nations go from near-peaceful ethnic and religious acceptance to violent conflict within a mere generation and ...... Ohhh my God look at those boobies!! I mean look at them bounce like 2 over inflated baskeballs, I mean just look at that apple bottom of a ass on that women! God Damn I need a peace of that right now or I might just hurt someone. Someone call a doctor cause that women is suffering from onion booty!
Fellow writer: What is onion booty?
Salman: Booty that looks so good, it makes you wanna cry!!
Fellow writer and Salman then high five each other.
i agree. i hope someone puts a fatwa on her for this outrageous behavior.
no, more like a yew factor.
Stop yer whining about her feet on the table. What is anti Indian about that? She can come to my house and do that on my table with food any day of the week.
Funny, I've searched a few of her pics and see [edited by SM INTERN] She is tall and lanky, no curves. Her face is moderately attractive, but nothing unique about it.
So how is she "hot"?
Is it because she has relatively light skin for a Tamil as well as a long, straigt, aquiline nose?
Other than that, I just can't see anything uniquely hot or beautiful about her.
I don't know what 'chamar' or 'bhangi' is. Also, I am referring to how people describe themselves, not others.
Why don't you plug it into google and learn. Then you will know why people do not refer to themselves as bhangi. Then you may also learn that calling yourself a brahmin or, the infantile term "Tambram" is not just indicative of your vegetarianism but acceptance of racism.
"Why don't you plug it into google and learn. Then you will know why people do not refer to themselves as bhangi. Then you may also learn that calling yourself a brahmin or, the infantile term "Tambram" is not just indicative of your vegetarianism but acceptance of racism."
doesn't that mean then that people shouldn't refer to themselves as white, christian, european, black, muslim, hindu etc. etc. , because all those terms can be indicative of acceptance of something unpleasant associated with those categories?
You guys are way, way off! She is attractive, bold and very sexy. I realize we are used to the demure desi girl, a la the Bollywood Crowd, but if she were not desi her behaviour would bother none of you. And as far as the idea that she is "light skinned," etc. that is nonsense. Her entire schtick is being the exotic Desi princess. I'm always surpised that unlike bollywood, tollywood, or any of the other desi starlets, she's not using skin lightening or filtering to make her look fair and lovely. Watch Top Chef, or any other interview. She looks Indian. She doesn't try and look white.
Don't hate the player...hate the game!
or vegetarian.
guys, about PL's feet on the table or anything else - there should be an unsaid rule, that almost anything you do is acceptable if you can make it look hot.
and i may be in minority here, but most of my friends seem to agree with me on the issue of PL being hot or not. now the causality (of what makes her hot), I am not too sure about, but she has got oomph all over! and she is not light skinned for heaven sake! This fair-n-lovely police is just working overtime.
Great photo selection Amardeep! We can all agree to point 2 hopefully. :)
"Then you may also learn that calling yourself a brahmin or, the infantile term "Tambram" is not just indicative of your vegetarianism but acceptance of racism."
Really? I don't think this is the case. I've lived in India. I know the history of the caste system. I identify myself as Kannada and Indian before anything else. However, when someone asks me why I'm vegetarian I say its because I'm brahmin. Its not done in implicit acceptance of racism. I say it because its the truth.
"or vegetarian."
:). maybe humans beings will one day just call themselves what they really are - big nothings (and even that is probably investing too much importance in ourselves, because even nothingness has value). then we can all be happy and equal in our "nothingness." but i'm sure some nothings will think they're better than other nothings.
call her a twit, call her a bore, but she's got some core. i've seen multiple glam shots with that scar on her arm* clearly visible. with the media proclivity to airbrush every bump and blemish from a shot, i'm sure this is by choice. It shows karatker.
*ive met two people with scars like that. one had sliced the wrist so that the tendon sprang all the way up the arm . it basically left the arm like a limp noodle. the tendon had to be manually pulled all the way down. the other had a weak bone and smashed it. took a few months of surgery and therapy for person to even have the ability to hold something in the hand. this woman's seen some pain methinks.
My solar-powered PC-police alarm just went off.
Some foreign tourists to India who are strict vegetarians will only eat in "Vaishnav Dhabas" or the homes or "hotels" (restaurants) of brahmins (if brahmins in the regions they are travelling in are known for being veg) because they are guaranteed to get vegetarians fare.
By saying Tam Brahm certain dietary "standards" are indicated which may act as a soothing balm on the ears of vegetarians across the globe.
Vegetarians generally do not want to eat in places where flesh has been cooked. Are you suggesting that they do in order to be PC and not offend meat-eaters?
You should switch over to the smug-powered model. It's far more reliable and you can charge it even while the sky is overcast.
She's shooting for the bedazzling stars.
from the article: Padma Lakshmi also enjoys the company of her stepson. "We have violent pillow fights. My husband gets really mad. He'd be like, 'Don't wind him up before bed, don't shake him like that'. It's fun."
will she become the female woody allen?
@40: pg, how've you been?
No one said that she was trying to be white, they said that she is light-skinned. Which, for a south Indian, she is, (I won't speak for north Indians lest someone come in and lecture me about how northies are sooo much lighter and aryan than padma lakshmi!), but compared to white people, no. Which is why she can pull of the exotic shtick in the American media, not in the Indian media. She's light enough for south Indian movies, but probably not the right age & without the right look (coy/demure nature on top of a very womanly body).
Her name always bothered me. Lakshmi's not her family name, is it?
And I'm going to convince myself that that picture is probably airbrushed (including her hair).
Yes. Someone calling themselves X is tantamount to acceptance of Y. X = {White, Black, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Engineer, Journalist}. Y = {KKK, Nation of Islam, the Inquisition, the Jewish Defense League, every fatwa ever issued, Narendra Modi's policies, Union Carbide's practices at Bhopal, Jayson Blair's actions at the NYTimes}.
Where would SM be without Prema-copycats? I sometimes miss the original Prema. At least her writing was spectacularly random.
Considering the age of the tot, it would probably be mechanically impossible. Then again, PL has a long time to develop into a fine old self-aggrandizing, filmic genius obsessed with visions of oriental incest.
In America dark hair and dark eyes = "exotic". Go figure.
Agreed that her body would not be considered "hot" (womanly) to most in India.
Which is why she can pull of the exotic shtick in the American media, not in the Indian media.
Padma Laksmi has acted in two Bollywood movies, Boom in 2003 is one of them.
She first became a super model in Europe (Italy to be precise), and not in Amreeka
Does it come free with the Pious? ;)
Damn, a perfect example of "poking fun at oneself" being lost on the internet. I should have added "biodegradable, not tested on animals etc." to my original comment. :)
What is so so khas abt tambrams ??!! Andhra, Karnataka, Maharashtra have equally strict vegetarian brahmins but I don't see them flaunting their caste like the Tamils ??!! Why such arrogance among tambrams ??
About Padma L. - She is tall, good looking and confident enough to flaunt her scar. But somehow it feels that she doesn't know her onions from her potatoes. She looks a bit dumb.
But hey - men always like dumb and beautiful.
From the article:
She can get away with silk slips and kneading dough now, but if she is given a pink slip, she might find herself really needing dough.
Also, isn't food porn supposed to show the food in glistening detail, in pride-of-place position? When did it become the effete sidekick?
because it rhymes. unlike telbram, kanbram or marbram (although the last is a palindrome).
that, and tambrams are better human beings overall.
In 1986.
'Cause it rhymes and lends itself to bad jokes. What do you call a one night stand involving a Tamil Brahmin? A Tambrahm thank-you-ma'am.
As you see, the rhyme is the reason.
I hope you are joking. You are, right?
Now that's a good response. Thanks pingpong. You are funny.
Dravidianlurker NEVA EVA EVA EVA...EVA EVA jokes around. DL be like Chachaji in Savile Row suit with sprig of dessicated rosemary in the breast pocket.
Amit - thanks for nothing for that Nine 1/2 Weeks clip. I had to restore my sanity with this. But I was thinking more of this food porn.
Why murali, is there a reason I'll need it more often here on SM? ;) :p
(j/k)
:D
not really. the current models favored by the hotair/MM/Ace crowd doesn't feature the false-positive 'humor' fail-safe feature. that's the biggest failing of the device, IMO.
p.s. TamBrams are the best!
I concur. Sorry, let me say that in Malayalam: "Mmmmmmmm."
thanks, mm. but i stick to my tambram roots with dried karuveppilai.
what about? tambram does rhyme.
I dedicate this latest, greatest, hacking-yet-productive cough to you, Anna. (as it came after the belly laugh).
Ewww. Gross.
Oh, I see. TamBrams are best at producing hacking-yet-productive cough :)
Due to my limited understanding of Malayalam, and due to a certain lack of tonal information on the web, I am unable to resolve the meaning accurately. Did you mean "My partner has been drinking a lot of pineapple juice. Mmmmmm!", or "I am auditioning for a Metamucil commercial. Mmmmm!", or "Why did you have to put paneer on my dosa? Mmmm!".
heavy cocaine use is good for incoherent brainstorming :o
My hatred of über-consumerism aside, I have no problem with what she's doing. If you're gonna whore your name, whore it big!
If Martha Stewart can have Omnimedia, bring on the OmniPadma. If she enjoys a modicum of branding success, hooray for her.
Puli, but she does not work at Merril Lynch, so she doesn't have to worry about it. Or Morgan Stanley.
I don't find her stupid - quite the contrary. I saw her in an interview by - is it Craig Ferguson? An arrogrant Brit or Scot, racist and condescending, and she pulled him up short on a couple of occasions without losing an iota of graciousness. Made India look good, made the host look ignorant. Don't hate her just cuz she's beautiful!
She doobs up, Lurker. Now remember my advice.
She does seem high a lot of the time with her delayed speech rhythm.
good job by the Pad. In the Fergs defense, he was stoned.
i just watched that craig ferguson clip and she says she's from kerala...so then she's not tam-bram?
Yeah, she's fabulous on Ferg's show.
Hardly. He's fab too.
Cringeworthy indeed. The writer managed to be fawning and patronizing at the same time. PL comes across as driven, self absorbed and not stupid at all. Though she just can't act, how to interpret that particular malady?
i think she grew up in madras. i rememeber watching a food planet show where she travels to three south indian states (kerala, karnataka, and AP) to check out their cuisines. oddly, she tried to speak tamil in all three states to clearly non-tamil speaking people (didn't hear a lick of malayalam when in kerala). and her tamil wasn't very fluent, though that's not something very uncommon these days in madras....
maybe it's her full first name? i.e. padmalakshmi. numerous syllables notwithstanding, a single name moniker would have been uber-trendy ;)re my post #77 - i'm not sure she grew up in madras, since the VF article talks about her moving here at a young age? i've read previous articles about her childhood in madras, but maybe they were references to trips back to india...
On the catwalk many models are anonymous and given to expressions which might remind one of a painting. But some super-models (Naomi Campbell, Kate Moss, and now Padma Lakshmi) say and do things from time to time which attract attention, for good or for ill. It must come with the territory.
ew. she need to stop imposing her tamil sense of superiority on the rest of the south!
Seahawks fan,
Seems like your notion of 'fab' includes not knowing Sri Lanka is a sovereign country, mocking Sri Lankan customs, and getting annoyed by/dismissing intelligent remarks. Guy looked like a glassy-eyed loser to me, but to each his own.
Padma is Malayalee. She says so in both of her cookbooks. I think she is must be a Tamil-Malayaleee since she speaks Tamil.
Padma’s a good cook. She won the 1999 Versailles World Cookbook Fair award for best cookbook by a first-time writer. She great as a hostess of Top Chef too. She was asked to come back for Season 3. The original host on Season 1 sucks and she wasn’t half as hot as Padma… Anyway, why are you people being so critical of Padma? It isn’t like Aishwarya can act. Ash has had a boob job and gets her pics heavily airbrushed. Padma is the first desi beauty to be known in internationally as a top model. She is the first one in the US for sure.
Unlike the Bollywood tartlets, at least she hasn’t succumbed to breast implants and plastic surgery. Must be those amazing South Indian genes.
Can we appreciate one great South Indian woman (Padma) without denigrating another (Aish)? Please?
To each their own. :)
Wow, did we watch the same clip? You must be the single most sensitive person on earth. Also, I think he misspoke when he said 'mainland', her correction just exaggerated the mistake.
I've never heard Padma talk but, from that clip, she seems pretty bright. Where did the notion that she was dumb come from?
when someone asks me why I'm vegetarian I say its because I'm brahmin. Its not done in implicit acceptance of racism. I say it because its the truth.
Why not stick to facts and say you do not like meat. Isn't that the truth? How does being a brahmin enter into the discussion.
people shouldn't refer to themselves as white, christian, european, black, muslim, hindu etc. etc. , because all those terms can be indicative of acceptance of something unpleasant
Calling yourself a brahmin is equivalent to a white man calling himself master and wondering why the black/brown does not call himself a slave.
are brahmins allowed to eat salmon?
gross manju, what a terrible image.
also, amaun, maybe the answer should be "because my religion says i can't, i'm sure i would love it though...probs"
oops, not religion...sub in whatever brahmanism is (but not caste, of course)
That's nothing...you should see Ferguson rip into J.K. Rowling (he impersonates her). The man is inspired...he'll never out do Conan though..
Or it's like a southerner proclaiming that she/he was from the "Plantation Owner's Tribe" to a crowd of African-Americans.
I actually know a 25 year old Tamil Brahmin. He's got such an inferiority complex, in my honest opinion. He's from India (born/raised), and he's only been here in Boston for ~5 months working in IT at Patni Consultants. He always talks about being Brahmin and so on. Look, I'm not one bit color conscious and regard myself as color-blind; I don't care about organized religions, even though I respect many different beliefs; and I'm very egalitarian in terms of respecting people equally of different socio-economic groups, income levels, educational levels, etc.
But this guy, although he's basically a sweet guy, he feels that he has to stretch out Brahmin's pedigree. He stated that Finnish language is very similar to Tamil language. As a Tamil who's very interested in linguistics, I don't have the heart to ask him "what the heck are you talking about?" He once said that his ancestors came from N. India, which may be the case, but when you see him, all you see is Tamil. There's nothing wrong with proclaiming that your ancestors are from Tamil Nadu. It seems that he's a microcosm of all inferiority complexes in India. Nobody, I mean nobody, is content with just being Indian. They all want some hyphen in there and/or they also want to pre-fabricate their ancestry/lineage. I just cut/pasted something about Germans being a type of Gujurati a few days ago. I thought that was hysterical.
Because until everyone recognizes that I am really the hottest desi girl around, they're just living a lie! :P
Apparently my amazing south Indian genes will help me though, thank goodness!
Also, you realllly think Padma doesn't get her pics airbrushed? She is a model (and an aging one). And, um, is she really that famous on an international level? Even on a national level in the U.S.? I would think that Ash is more well-known, actually. Also, the reason she didn't get breast implants to further her runway modeling career is that runway models aren't supposed to have big (or even medium-sized) boobs. Duh. Indian actresses are. It's not like she's performing some sort of act of rebellion against Western high fashion standards of beauty.
he wouldn't need to be so defensive if he'd at least got a job at infosys.
are brahmins allowed to eat salmon?
Only if they married it.
"Ash has had a boob job and gets her pics heavily airbrushed."
wtf are you talking about! proof?
Hot or Not?
Magic 8-ball says: Answers within
I think you really meant to refer me here.
(And in high school some of my friends and I thought it would be funny to put up profiles of ourselves on the site, and I was at the top for a brief three days.)
She was far more successful in Europe than America, so yes.
General Rant:
I don't get the necessity for haterade, whether it's aimed towards Padma or Aish. Boob job? Aging? Air brushing? Skin bleaching? Maybe I should have been specific-to-the-point-of-nausea here, when I said can we do this without denigrating others.
I didn't mean to seem like I was hating by mentioning that she is aging (very well, might I add, but she's still not as young as most runway models), I brought it up in relation to her career (which used to depend almost exclusively on her looks when she was a model, and now still depends a lot on her looks since she is a media figure). For the record, I'm ambivalent towards Padma. I don't think I even have a brown beauty idol... Rani Mukherji? Genelia? Possibly Sridevi. I dunno.
I feel bad for you nala. Me? I'm set. Behold.
#15 tatva
i hope padma will deign to tell me about her tam bram heritage, gimme some choice tit bits, and proceed to feed me some delish tidbits after we're done.
educate us, manu. how should brahmins behave? you seem to be the arbiter of standards everywhere. a pink slip might make me consider being a brownsug'mommy. i'd be happy to stick to a tambrahm-thankyou-ma'am arrangement as well.If he's your idol, no wonder so many brown guys have trouble getting laid...
Yeah this ferg fella might be ok. Saw a coupla more clips. He's sweet and honest. He did look stoned that day with Padma, though.
So much time is spent on Sepia Mutiny asserting how hot people are, and how hot they suspect others aren't, that I think it is time to propose a most devilish and satisfying solution.
Everyone should submit a link to three or more photos of yourself to the newstab, and let the macacas make a majority out of you. Or not. C'mon, a good beauty contest should be able to stop the someone-should-shag-sonu's-sugarness at the pass.
Also, about the whole Brahmin bit, I understand what amaun is getting at. I understand that practicing caste discrimination is technically illegal in India now, but c'mon, caste problems are far from being resolved. I find it strange and abhorrent that anyone would want to hold on any remnants of that system by identifying themselves by their caste. When people ask me my religion, I just say Hindu. Some went on to ask me my caste, and I replied I didn't have one (I joke about it in terms of how my mother wants me to marry a boy with very specific requirements, among them caste, or in terms of the funny last names we have). I don't believe that it should hold any meaning, and in the U.S. it generally doesn't, so why bring it up? I guess you could think of me as a 'reform Hindu' on this-- I think anyone should be able to take up Brahminical practices like vegetarianism, cleanliness (assuming it doesn't assume that other people are instrinsically dirty by birth or something), if they want to, and anyone should be able to become a guru of any sort, without it being thought of as them 'trying to be Brahmin,' i.e. I basically believe in the social/cultural dismantling of the caste system in preference of a wider identity of 'Hindu' (among Hindus... I think it's even more bizarre that Muslims and Christians, even Sikhs, pay attention to caste differences).
Of course I have to acknowledge that I'm not Brahmin, so perhaps it was the fact that I didn't grow up in an ultra-religious family that leads me to feel this way about caste. I never had a strong caste identity, and the more religious, really caste-conscious people I know upper-caste. But some of the stuff I have heard over the years ("She sings so well since she is Brahmin, she picks it up faster" "They are a backward caste" "Reddys talk like this!" --and the latter is just another lowly-sudra-but-powerful-in-andhra-subcaste along with our own). My first boyfriend was of a different subcaste and I thought the most awkward part was just going to be that we were not-that-secretly going out in front of our parents, but it turned out to be worse that he's a reddy and my last name is long and winding. When there were no discernable differences to us. So I'm just a little wary of people who mention their caste without having to. And in that respect, I can't really like Padma Lakshmi, because if she really is the most famous model of Indian descent internationally, I think that reflects very poorly on Hindus, especially me, this notion that we are still so caste-conscious, because it doesn't actually represent my beliefs, it's kind of the antithesis of my beliefs.
i think its more like flying the confederate flag
Um, that should be 'discernable cultural/religious differences.' :)
And I guess that Padma Lakshmi probably thinks that she is just adding a little tidbit about herself by mentioning that she is a Tamil Brahmin. But I think that's even worse, actually- it's ignorance, but it's still powerful ignorance that plays into a discriminatory belief system.
Ok, 'even worse' is an exaggeration. I think it's still bad, even if it's not someone who actually thinks that they are actually superior to others because they're Brahmin or whatever.
a tambram once told me he was such in a job interview
Manju- it's like people constantly trying to prove their foreign ancestry. Just weird. I'm a dark-skinned southie sudra whose ancestors probably lived in the coastal andhra for at least the past 2000 years. I can't claim any 'Persian' blood, and I don't give a flying fu*k about it either.
speaking of tit bits, i belong to a group of la perla bra-men myself. and i am really religious about it.
in all seriousness, it does not need to be anything of this sort (i don't know in what context pl used it, but it could refer to foods she grow up eating etc., for example). there are certain cultural signifiers that being a tambram implies, which which have nothing to do with oppressing shudras, and somebody could convey those aspects by identifying themselves as tambrams in an appropriate context. on the other hand, a white man flying a confederate flag or calling himself master has a pretty clear implication.
this is not to say that there aren't delusional tamils/brahmins of the kind boston mahesh mentions.
Jasmine, are you Tara W. by any chance?
Woah, I have a doppelganger? :) No, my real name is Jasmine- an old Punjabi appellation, I'm told...
And I've never met anyone on the Mutiny in the flesh- I live in a town where I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of desis that I've conversed with and are in my age bracket.
and somebody could convey those aspects by identifying themselves as tambrams in an appropriate context. on the other hand, a white man flying a confederate flag or calling himself master has a pretty clear implication
Cultural signifiers of brahmins from 60 years ago in Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Karanataka.
Untouchability - and if touched by the "lower caste" a bath followed by prayer/fast.
Wells in temples are reserved from Brahmin families - villages have no running water.
A brahmin will educate only brahmin boys.
Some "lower castes" were not even allowed into the temple premises.
Who cleaned their shit? - Why do you think toilets were in a separate construction outside the home? - Such that they did not even see the bhangi that cleaned it. These people have been marginalised for at least a thousand years and this oppression has had a socio-religious sanction for as long. Perpetrated by the brahmins and "upper castes". You would think this kind of racism would not have apologists. Yet these same folk who look for "cultural signifiers" in brahminism are sure to call a white boy with the confederate flag as out to get some slaves.
Summary: I can find no appropriate context to identify yourself as a brahmin and the attempted cutesyness of "Tambrahm".
92 · Jasmine on November 8, 2007 07:01 PM · Direct link
This type of thing always rankles me. One North Indian contention is that we are like Europeans because we eat wheat instead of rice and drink milk regularly, and that's particular to white people. We're not so much like Asians or the rest of Indians as a result. I hear it all the time from people I know personally, and it intimates inferiority, prejiduce, supremacy and classism all at the same time.
I've noticed this as well! I met some north and pseudo-North (i.e. from Maharashtra) Indians, and they took great pride in pointing out this difference. Also, another "Scythian/Indian" isogloss is fish-consumption! Hahahaha...have you ever noticed how the eating of fish is so frowned upon in India, until you point out that their "Swedish ancestors continue to eat fish" (since many Indians continue to believe that their ancestors came from "Switzerland/Sweden").
Haha... Marathis just need to give it up and admit their southie-ness :)
Also... Sweden/Switzerland?? Really?? That is just hilarious. And so sad. You know a country has problems when everyone is desperately trying to prove that they are not really of that country, with the assumption being that that is a better thing than to be a 'native.'
hah, nice to meet someone else who is not ashamed of what they are. i'm curious though- i thought you were christian? do christians in kerala still hold on to caste identity, even among communities that converted a long time ago?/how do you know what caste your ancestors were? none of the malayali christians i know in the U.S. talk about their caste or what caste their ancestors might have been...
this must be where the whole wheatish thing came from
One North Indian contention is that we are like Europeans because we eat wheat
Also because of our muscular build, our height, our WHITENESS, our martial spirit and all that.
I dunno, we in Bengal not only delight in fish (I'm told - I'm a fish-teetotaller) but are unabashedly arrogant abt being Indian. In fact, a disproportionate number of us are everything-comes-from-India uncles and aunties. We carry our jute shopping bags and worn out umbrellas with pride. We buy Neem and Lux and coconut-oil our hair. We watch every film by Ray three times, and we hang a portrait of Rabi Thakur in our living rooms. We feel sorry for those Indians who are not Bengalis and want to be Swedes or Scythians. In fact, it may be possible that they want to be Swedes or Scythians because they are not Bengalis.
Sweetbabyluv_143, is that you? I voted for you!
Haha :)
Hey mutineers, I don't know how to post a story, but I thought this story was funny while being thought-provoking:
Letter from India: Unfinished business with monkeys in Delhi
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/08/america/letter.php?page=2
Nala, I love Marathis. I did meet one "Kulkarni" while I was a graduate student. Now, I was born/raised in the USA, and the ideas of oneness, unity, egalitarianess, etc. is ingrained in me. Me and this guy are talking, and he's trying to figure out which part of India I'm from. I've got to admit, I have a light-complexion - even in N. Indian standards for some freakish reason (even my dad/mom were light skinned, and "NO" we're not Brahmins). Oh yeah, I don't have the dour personality that many Tamils have. So anyways, when I told him that I'm an ethnic Tamil, he had to force the fact that his family never ate rice into the conversation. Also, I got this impression that he was scrutinizing my reaction upon this admission. Weird, eh?
Regarding fish: man, I love sushi, anchovies, tuna fish, an even cod oil. I think that there is a stigma associated with enjoying fish in India. However, when Indians notice that their superiors eat sashmi, then they re-evaluate, and they, too, eat sashmi.
When I found out that Pakistani Punjabis and Pakistanis, in general, eat both fish and rice, I was very surprised! They are more "Scythian" (hahaha) than Indians. They are more closer to "Switzerland/Sweden" than Indians, yet they have a "nihari" masala - or something like that - for fish. Oh yeah, they eat rice. What's up with that? Hahahahaha... I used to date a Pakistani girl, and she couldn't understand why I thought that was interesting.
118 · nala on November 9, 2007 12:41 AM · Direct link
I've noticed this as well! I met some north and pseudo-North (i.e. from Maharashtra) Indians, and they took great pride in pointing out this difference. Also, another "Scythian/Indian" isogloss is fish-consumption! Hahahaha...have you ever noticed how the eating of fish is so frowned upon in India, until you point out that their "Swedish ancestors continue to eat fish" (since many Indians continue to believe that their ancestors came from "Switzerland/Sweden").
Haha... Marathis just need to give it up and admit their southie-ness :)
Also... Sweden/Switzerland?? Really?? That is just hilarious. And so sad. You know a country has problems when everyone is desperately trying to prove that they are not really of that country, with the assumption being that that is a better thing than to be a 'native.'
119 · nala on November 9, 2007 12:46 AM · Direct link
I am a dark skinned southie sudra who ancestors lived in Kerala for at least 2000 years. From one sudra to another - gday mate.
hah, nice to meet someone else who is not ashamed of what they are. i'm curious though- i thought you were christian? do christians in kerala still hold on to caste identity, even among communities that converted a long time ago?/how do you know what caste your ancestors were? none of the malayali christians i know in the U.S. talk about their caste or what caste their ancestors might have been...
"I've got to admit, I have a light-complexion - even in N. Indian standards for some freakish reason (even my dad/mom were light skinned, and "NO" we're not Brahmins)."
umm, why are you mentioning not only your lighter skintone, but that of your parents as well? given the historical oppression inflicted by the lighter-skinned on others, i can find no appropriate context for you to mention that. surely you could have found some other way to tell your anecdote and get your point across without that racially-loaded connotations?:) think how some darker-skinned person reading this must feel? they may think you feel somehow superior by mentioning that needless fact.:)
also why are people here mentioning their skintone - dark or light - or caste - "upper" or "lower" - at all? not very egalitarian. egalitarian would be completely stripping yourself of all identifiers and not even referring to other identifiers, even ones that you abhor like the "b" word, and just calling yourself a human being (although the animals would then object, because of your historical antipathy and oppression of them).
even ones that you abhor like the "b" word
I like.