December 10, 2007
The Drama of DiversityIdentity
Five years ago, I attended my first and last HOKANA FOKANA, the conference which is held every other year for Mallus who really want to marinate in Malayaleeosity. At the time, I was working for a non-profit and one of the organizers was interested in some of the post 9/11 stuff I was doing, so I was invited to speak at three of the week’s “Youth” panels.
Since they offered, and the woman who had contacted me was just wonderful to work with, I accepted. Thanks to her, I was treated to one of the strangest experiences I’ve ever had, once I arrived at the hotel in downtown Chicago, only to find myself among the most Malayalees I’ve ever seen in one place. It was a little bit bewildering, but it was edifying and fascinating, too.
There was so much to absorb: the regional cliques, the cousins from different coasts squealing as they spotted each other among the crowds, the Uncles strutting about, moustaches in full effect, declaring random things in voices so loud, the three or four white people who dared venture in to this quagmire jumped each time another Malayalee shout rang out. The energy (and scent of Drakkar mixed with Chivas) was potent. I’m glad I went. Everyone should, at some point.
I’ve often referenced my relatively “isolated” childhood— which so many of you share, according to what you confide via meetup and Gmail— and how unlike the other Malayalee Christian kids who grew up here, I never attended the Jacobite or MarThomite religious conferences which seemed to happen every few months, in different regions of the United States. Twenty years after my parents consciously blew off all of my Uncles’ recommendations that we attend that year’s FOKANA, my mother had a Eureka! moment in our kitchen, when during the one and only fight she and I ever had about my “settling down”, I shouted at her that if it were THAT important to her that I marry someone who was Malayalee and Orthodox, then perhaps they should have exposed me to actual Malayalee people while I was growing up.
“You never took me to FOKANA!”, I snapped and there it was, the look of recognition and acceptance. “How was I supposed to find this elusive dream son-in-law of yours, Ma?” I had a solid point. Every wedding we had attended in the two years preceding that argument had one thing in common besides parents who were attempting to one-up the last event by inviting an additional 100 guests; the bride and groom had met at church, at one of the regional denomination-specific conferences or yes, FOKANA. My mother never broke it down like that again. Yindeed, instead of the now familiar barrage of “Is he Jacobite? Marthoma? CATHOLIC?? Ehm…Malayalee at least???”, I was greeted with, “Found a nice boy yet?”
So these strange mega conferences, they have their place in our imperfect, carefully negotiated lives lived in on the hyphen. Sometimes, they can be an opportunity for pure good, like when one of you coordinated a massive effort to “Get Out The Marrow” at the TANA convention which was held in DC this year. What better place to rep Sameer and Vinay’s cause, than at an event which had several thousand potential matches?
From the news tab, a TOI story (“The dharma of diversity”), which I’ve included the majority of, here, so you don’t have to go there (thanks for the tip, Nanopolitan):
The United States and India both brag about their diversity — their respective diverse, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual societies. But what happens when you put 2.6 million Indians in the US? They bring their full range of plurality with them to a country that, much like India, allows full expression.
No Indian state or group or caste is too small or too big to form a representative association in America. So, we have everything here from NAMA (North American Manipuri Association) to BANA (Bhojpuri Association of North America), from the Bruhan Maharashtra Mandali to the Bangla Samaj.
Oh, how they multiply and divide. When one Andhra caste began to dominate TANA (Telugu Association of North America), the other went on to form ATA (Association of Telugus of America). GANA could not contain the forming of the Gujarati Leuva Patel Samaj and nor could KANA hold back the birth of the North America Nair Society. When Bihar split to make place for Jharkhand, folks here made sure everyone heard it by forming BAJANA (Bihar and Jharkhand Association of North America).
Sometimes, there are so many associations for a given state or community that they form an omnibus association of associations. Thus, we have JAINA (Federation of Jain Associations of North America) and FOKANA (Federation of Kerala Associations of North America). Conversely, a mere Tamil Sangam was not large enough to accommodate the voice of Chettiars (to which belongs our finance minister P Chidambaram) who formed the Nagarthar Chettiar Sangam of North America.
What would Aishwarya Join?
A majority of people from Karnataka express themselves linguistically through 33 Kannada Kootas across North America under the umbrella of AKKA, which stands for Association of Kannada Kootas of America. But that does not account for Karnataka’s Bunts, who speak Tulu (think Aishwarya Rai), or Kodavas speaking Coorgi (think Robin Uthappa).
So, we have a Bunt Association of North America (another BANA) and a Kodava Samaja of America (KoSA). Can Konkanasthas, who come from up and down the west coast of India, have their nose cut? They have their NAKA (North American Konkani Association).
I wouldn’t ever recommend cutting a Konk. They’ll mess you up. Confront one of them and the only person who will get cut is you. ;) I have no idea what the next two groups mean:
Linguistic identity doesn’t fulfill caste affiliation. So, there is also a Vokkaliga Parishat of North America and a Veerashaiva Samaja of North America. And try this for size — a Bangalore geek in Boston is a member of both NEKK (New England Kannada Koota) and TIE (The Indus Entrepreneurs).
There are also professional bodies such as AAPI (Association of American Physicians of Indian-origin) and AAHOA, which is the Asian-American Hotel Owners Association, but might well be called PAHOA to account for the dominance of Patels. More recently, journalists and lawyers have opted for the larger South Asian identity with groups such as SAJA and SABA.
You know I love coffee, right? Well the best association ever is coming up, below:
Nothing holds a mirror better to our diversity and our penchant for forming groups than AIENA (Association of Indian Entomologists in North America). Think you’ve heard it all? Beat this. There’s even a Volleyball Association of Jats in America, called JAVA (because they meet over coffee), which is an offshoot of AJA (Association of Jats in America). Talk about boosting diversity in America.
Talk about boosting, indeed. If it weren’t for these groups, how would our Dads have an opportunity to puff out their chest and feel veddy important? When else would they get to wear the sort of “prize” ribbon I am more accustomed to seeing on elementary school Science projects or award-winning livestock, at the California State Fair?
I wonder if we’ll be like this in a few decades—lobbying for another office to be created within one of these orgs (“How about Vice-President of Online Outreach and Promotional Strategies?” ) or splintering off to create a competing faction of Nairs of Northern California, so that we can be President of something too, since that bastard Sreedharan stole the election and shouldn’t be running things anyway. Goodness gracious me – no disrespect to all my Uncles—but…I sincerely hope not.
anna on December 10, 2007 01:15 PM in Identity · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Awesome Anna! Now, if you replaced the Mallu with Punju, you'd have my story down to fight with my mama. Except, I can't say it was one...being Punju, I have to live up to our rep!
Gujarati Leva Patel is too broad a category - you haven't heard of Surti Leva Patidar Samaj of Southern California?
They are for Patels of the Leva sub-caste whose families come from the city of Surat (Surti) and live in Southern California.
They even have a website:
http://www.slpsosc.org
Pretty long there will be a United States of India in America. That will indeed be a linguistic and cultural mess. I am looking forward to the pot-boiler melting pot !!
;)
Stay strong, mutineer. Stay strong.
out of curiosity, ANNA, why didn't your parents take you to FOKANA?
too true on the regional/linguistic/caste divisions. i've been to ATA/TANA stuff, it's just really weird that the 1st gens in these organizations are so concerned with caste. based on what i've seen (and i've seen a lot), they waste too much time and energy bantering over that and all the other petty little dramas among themselves instead of actually 'imparting telugu culture' to youth or whatnot, as they claim to do (and as they claim to be concerned with). i guess that's what you get with indians, though, huh? ;)
i'm glad that 2nd gens are nowhere near as divisive. i like the unity that 2nd gens have, but i feel like culturally it gets subsumed by certain desi cultural things (i'm sure y'all know what i'm taking about... bhangra and bollywood) at the expense of others, and that can be very stringent sometimes too.
the kannadigas have the best acronym - AKKA :), i also always loved 'kannada koota,' definitely beats 'tlca.'
if anything, these organizations will 'die out' as immigration decreases and the 1st gens pass away, right? i don't know any 2nd gens that look forward to going to these things, it's kind of the very definition of uncool. once you've seen one, you've seen them all...
But Indian immigration to the US is increasing not decreasing - we have not yet seen the peak of Indian immigration. These organizations may get a lot stronger before they die out.
right, it increased during the 90s, but we don't have the stats yet on immigration during the 2000s, do we?
......... "sent" of Drakkar mixed with Chivas......
Hilarious nevertheless.
Even with all the DBDs who are recent arrivals? And there are 2nd genners who are surprisingly first-gen like, so maybe they won't die quite so soon? :)
As for why my parents didn't take me to FOKANA...so many reasons, so little time. I promise they will all be in the book, if I ever finish it. ;)
Mostly it had to do with lack of interest. My mom used to say that she had no need to validate her Malayalee identity by losing several vacation days, to fly several thousand miles, to be around people she didn't really like. My dad thought it was a waste of time and money/too full of idiots. Keep in mind, it was easier to feel such distance because my sister and I were NOT part of any Indian church-- I can't emphasize this enough, the fact that we were raised in a Greek one changed everything about our lives/identities.
My sister and I weren't going to lobby to see our friends from Texas and Florida, because we had no Malaylee friends, aside from the handful we grew up with in SF. We saw our family often, outside of conferences, so we didn't need the reunion fxn of it all, either. Finally, I think my parents were really apprehensive about having us turn out like some of our cousins, who grew up in "Little Keralas" in other states...who only did Malayalee activities, with other Malayalees...usually of the same denomination (i.e. a lot of my MT cousins didn't really know Mallu Catholics...none of them associated with Mallu Hindus, which we did). These cousins weren't very integrated and that bothered my mom and dad a lot, because they felt like if you were going to raise your children that way, why leave India? In fact they thought their relatives were doing their kids a disservice by enclosing them in this Malayalee bubble.
Told you my parents were weird. ;)
DAMNIT! Fixing now, duly chagrined, thanks for pointing it out.
Since we're all individuals, hence the need for diversity.
You know, I'm Gujrati but part of a small "caste" that does't fit in with the larger Patel's and Shah's--and therefore, I'm not allowed to go to any of their events (my parents tried in an effort to get me married). I need a t-shirt that reads, "I got rejected from a Gujarati conference"
One word.. IDENTITAY
I have avoided TANA all these years. I just find the castecentric politics repulsive and I belong to the caste that is supposedly the dominant one in TANA. The same people who look down upon people in India and condescendingly talk about leaving all the nonsense behind are just as guilty of petty politics and infighting over here.
However, I do want to make a contribution in terms of an idea. I do not speak Telugu normally. But I understand it well enough and can speak it if I really have to. I think they should try out novel ways of passing on the language to the next generation if they organize a treasure hunt or some other fun game where passwords or queries to a "gatekeeper" of the next level has to require an understanding of Telugu(or whatever language). One could form teams of ABDs and they collaborate on convincing the DBD gatekeeper that they know enough to get whatever done. Make it Amazing Race in a conference center. Have a big enough prize of 10,000 bucks. I find it amusing that these associations do little to promote the language they are named after. Just bragging about how great the language is can be kind of pitiful.
Hee, yeah. An uncle I know is part of some group that seeks to cultivate Telugu as a language, both in AP & in the U.S., but his own daughter doesn't speak Telugu or care for it at all, and he doesn't even speak it with her at home. At best it's pitiful, at worst it's hypocritical.
They bring their full range of plurality with them to a country that, much like India, allows full expression.
not really. remember when we've tried to do a shout out for people of dalit origin on SM? remember that around half of brown americans are gujarati and a disproportionate number of the rest punjabi.
Sing-alongs can be fun too.
Am I the only one who detects some hypocrisy among the commenters and ANNA for you self-congratulation in avoiding such events? You begrudge our parents generation for attempting to preserve their cultural heritage in American (and yes, whether or not we like it, being a Nair or Patel or any other caste is very much part of their heritage, they probably grew up saturated by it) and critique them for choosing to mix with other people using only that as a basis. And yet you ANNA, someone who didn't grow up around Indian people, have chosed to spend a significant amount of time cultivating a website and community under the auspice that because we are all brown/desi/south asian, we have something in common?
To me, both are equally stupid, which is to say not at all. Sepia Mutiny is just a different sort of caste, with its own tenants (must be secular, must support "South Asia", must be feminist, must like it when white people exoticize our culture. etc.) So basically, how is this site any different than tamil sangam or anything else?
I for one am glad that people who travel here from another world have these conferences to help meet up with old friends or other people like them here. I don't look down on them for it, and I find it highly ironic that some of you seem to, given your own choices to be on sites like this one.
hillside, there are some valid points within the sneer. but you present them like a total as*hole ;-) "must like it when white people exoticize our culture." yeah, nice call!
razib-
that was basically in response to the general sentiment on here that whenever something desi ends up in mainstream culture, no matter how poorly it is represented (Nina Paley, for instance), it's basically supported so long as the appropriator (sp?) is white, black or something else. Of course when desis do it, we are sell-outs, and the commenters are quick to point that out...
hillside, well, i'll not threadjack so early. so whuteva ;-)
re: caste based groups, etc. as someone noted the continued stream of immigration make them likely to be persistent. that being said
1) isn't the salience of caste decreasing in india?
2) the utilitarian functions of caste (& jati) seem sharply reduced in the american context. i mean, they fulfill roles similar to italian american associations or something. basically civil society, not the center of your day to day life. so if immigration decreases or the stream changes they are likely to erode if future generations don't use their services.
Oh Please, a lot of the caste centric divisions are artificial barriers. Example: Reddys and Kammas who head ATA and NALA. My parents have many Reddy friends. And for the life of me, I cant spot a single difference between them. I can understand with brahmins, they got their own subculture that is distinctly different.
And whatever divisions they might have had back in India have no place in the US. Pointing out sepiamutiny is the same is silly because SepiaMutiny is not meant to be exclusionary. Any white person can come check it out. It's more of a niche for people to share interests. A lot of these indian associations are ego filled events. I dont think we wouldn't mind attending one of these TANA type events if there is some kind of a purpose.
Hmmm, negative, inflammatory comment about me from Hillside...yup, the world is as it should be.
I think it's stupid to think that one has maintained one's culture just because one goes to FOKANA every other year (and so much of the justification for such things is the "youths" and helping them learn). If attending/blindly supporting such events is how I need to prove to someone that I am who I am and I have the right to write this site, then no wonder you dislike me so much and we don't get along. I also find it mildly offensive that you choose to denigrate my parents' choices in how they raised me, but then again, it's you so I'm ordering a case of salt from Costco as I type. My parents chose not to do these things, they chose to teach me our culture their own way, and as a small child, I did what they did.
Call me whatever you want-- like most of the people on this site, I wasn't a part of SASA (didn't even have it at my school), I didn't fit in with "mainstream desis" but I felt just as brown as I did American, and I don't think that you or anyone else has the right to disparage that or set up litmus tests to prove anything. My writing for this site isn't hypocritical at all-- it's an outgrowth of needs which aren't being met by existing communities/groups. Your examples aren't analogous. The Nair association or the Jat association is just for those castes; SM is for everyone, even those who aren't Indian.
If you think these orgs are great, bully for you. None of us is saying that 1st gens shouldn't meet or enjoy themselves at FOKANA or FOGANA; some of us *are* saying that we haven't gained much from such conferences and that's allowed. If some of us want to have a light-hearted convo about how amusing it is to see our Uncles puff out their jubas while they strut around in their mundus acting important why does it matter? This is what we bond over; this is what we can discuss nowhere else, with no one else.
I don't know why you read or bother to comment on my posts, when you're so predictably and patently unfair. It's tired, your dislike of me.
I know there is a NAMBLA "North America Man/Boy love Association", which is familiar to those that watch the Daily Show
How long before a NIMBLA "North Indian Man/Boy love association", Punjabi's need there Man/Boy love too you know? Then those that want it more exclusive
JAMBLA "Jatt American Man/Boy love Association"
monthyear.That said... I find it galling when some such splinter groups go overboard in projecting their identity as the font of humanity/creativity/genius etc.
here is a point, those of us who are children of brown america 1970-1985 might have a very different experience via our parents than those growing up more recently. when i was young my parents' friends were of all brown ethnicities, there just weren't that many of us, and having hindus from orissa and christians from kerala over for dinner wasn't that peculiar (aside from on occasion modify the cuisine). today my parents socialize 99% with other bangladeshi muslims. my siblings probably have a narrower experience of brown america than i did, even if quantitatively it is more prominent.
I find it galling when some such splinter groups go overboard in projecting their identity as the font of humanity/creativity/genius etc.
LOL. well, the behavior tells you a lot about class & character ;-)
Very, very true. 2nd GenX and 2nd GenY, almost.
Mine too, right down to the need to consider diet/cuisine. I think that's a huge reason why I'm on this site and passionate about it/why I see more similarity than difference (much to the anguished disgust of certain commenters).
Comments from the original TOI article:
Don’t you think that Brown America has become qualitatively and quantitatively different in the last decade? With more and more people coming on F, H and L visas, (I read somewhere there are about 50K plus students that come to America from India), they are carrying over their regional identities with them. To think of it majority of Indian Americans are foreign born as with the naturalization of current H1B, green card crop, this is not going to change in the near future.
It's interesting to think what will happen with these groups as our community becomes more and more a part of the U.S. and how relevant these organization will be to 2nd and 3rd generationers. In my family, when we were younger, we always went to the AKMG (association of Kerala medical graduates) - it was very important to my parents to go to these events b/c it was filled with their friends that they'd had back in kerala, medical school classmates. It was wonderful to hear my father and his former classmates talk about when they got hazed in first year.
Now us, the 2nd generationers - well I'm not a medical graduate so why would I still go --- For me it's still cool to see my childhood friends, but what will happen with our kids...I think they need to reassess the mission of AKMG, anybody else go to that organization?
In my family, when we were younger, we always went to the AKMG (association of Kerala medical graduates)
Hmm, this sounds pretty similar to APPNA (Association of Pakistan Physicians in North America). APPNA people love holding silly cultural events too.
This is one of the most fascinating aspects of this topic for me-- since my last few jobs have involved situations where there were several desis on my team (like...15/21)...and I was the only one born here.
One thing I did notice is that these desis don't feel as desperate for community as we/our parents did. When we used to talk about it over lunch, they'd mention that they just came from India in the past few years/lived in areas where there were PLENTY of peeps with similar backgrounds/had the internet...etc. They still feel very connected to their friends/fam no matter where they might be in the world. It's a long way from those blue Airmails which came so rarely from the other side of the world, to our mailbox in California.
"One thing I did notice is that these desis don't feel as desperate for community as we/our parents did. When we used to talk about it over lunch, they'd mention that they just came from India in the past few years/lived in areas where there were PLENTY of peeps with similar backgrounds/had the internet...etc."
I noticed the opposite. They only live w/ other Desi roommates, socialize with other Desis, eat at Desi restaurants and do the stereotypical Desi jobs (IT). The most annoying habit is when they wave hello to all the other Desi coworkers and totally ignore the white ones.
I've had similar experiences with my dad's medical school friends from Baroda Medical College. It's fun to see my dad and all his buddies at the conferences (they're always so excited to see each other..like puppies!), and it's good to see friends from when I was little, but a recently attended conference felt more like a 2nd gen marriage circuit than a chance to hang out with people I don't get to see very often. I'm also not a medical graduate, and rather than attending these conferences I'm more inclined to catch up with these friends on my own..
They still feel very connected to their friends/fam no matter where they might be in the world.
yeah, this is a big diff., along with critical mass.
anna --- why was the one FOKANA you went also your last FOKANA? my story's the same as yours --- my parents raised me + my brother outside of the malayalee bubble. we went to catholic churches instead of syro-malabar orthodox churches in the states. there were no malu churches in general where i grew up (although that's starting to change now). my parents have started to lay off of pressuring me to find a orthodox malayalee boy when i pointed out how they raised me --- same story different actors ... so now i'm in my mid-20s and my parents (for the first time EVER) are playing with the idea of going to FOKANA in houston this year. just wondering what your two cents are on why it was your first + last FOKANA ... i always feel like and insider + outsider at events like this but i've never been to something with the magnitude of FOKANA ...
from a malayalee girl born + raised in the u.s. who's been reading for sepia mutiny for years but has never commented - i am so grateful that you blog, anna. i am so grateful that you blog on sepia mutiny. i am so grateful for sepia mutiny. i crave for new blog entries hitting up sm multiple times a day because you all capture, affirm + lift up our experiences. random malayalam interwoven with english is like tasting home when my heart's so homesick. sentences like "There was so much to absorb: the regional cliques, the cousins from different coasts squealing as they spotted each other among the crowds, the Uncles strutting about, moustaches in full effect, declaring random things in voices so loud, the three or four white people who dared venture in to this quagmire jumped each time another Malayalee shout rang out." is refreshing read something so familiar. i appreciate + am grateful for you + and the words you share ... peace.
There is also a difference that I have noticed with regards to desis who studied in America and then started working as compared to desis who have come to America straight on H/L visas. The later I have seen more often than not come in larger groups and usually stick around with other desis who came with them or before them, I know there are exceptions but this what I have largely found true amongst people I know. You are correct about how easy it is to find community now as compared to the 70s. Connecting back home through email/phone and social networking sites is hardly cost prohibitive and that is the reason I feel most first generation desis carry over their identities.
Ditto to Jasmin. I, too, am grateful to see issues discussed about the desi diaspora, even if we don't agree. At least, there are no power hungry mutineers [insert joke] on the blog, and we are united in our exploration of our identities.
Jgandhi,
I personally don’t find anything annoying with that habit, imagine being mid to late 20s and moving to a totally alien country with vastly different culture. I find it natural to connect with people with similar backgrounds. It is interesting how nice desi cab drivers and restaurant owners are in New York to other desis irrespective of the country they are from.
Wha .... ? Just so I don't miss the boat on regional associations, I'm going to create the "American Iyers Y-enjoy (in) Orlando" (AIYO) down in here in Florida. Anyone interested in joining?
"I personally don’t find anything annoying with that habit, imagine being mid to late 20s and moving to a totally alien country with vastly different culture."
I don't find it annoying to stick together w/ other Desis but its wrong to wave hello to the two Desis in the room and totally snub the non-Desi guy like he doesn't exist.
ANNA and AKKA...
Many aeons ago, as a taaja DBD, i wallflowered at a G.O.A (Goan Overseas Assoc) thingy in CA. Through the evening, I discovered was the only person who had ever lived for any extended period in Goa. Everybody else was from Nairobi/London/Bombay. It was sort of a letdown. I so wanted to talk about Panjim's dive bars to someone in the know :-)
ANNA @ 10,
With rapid inter-regional marriages and cross-country migration in India, there will be many future DBDs who will not know which region of desh they belong to. So once can question whether such organizations will multiply or die out faster.
I find that ANNA can conveniently stand for Association of Nice North Americans, or Association of Naughty North Americans. Where you end up is up to you, and maybe SANTA (South Asian Network Through America).
We all know these organization's are for the most part used by the "leaders" to jerk each others ego's, so just sit back and enjoy the show.
I went to 2 Punjabi events in my life and both times 75% of the show was used to give people "awards". It was a non-stop cavalcade of smiling punjabi's waiting for the moment their name's are called so they can go on stage and wave to thier adoring public.
For example I just went to the PCS website for the hell of it and here are pictures from a "Youth graduation" event.
http://www.pcschicago.org/youth/graduation/index.htm
Notice 90% of the pictures are of awards being giving out to 60 year old men at a youth graduation party.
I wondered about this! Since the likelihood of my marrying Malayalee is 0.01% at this point, I sometimes think about what I'll do in the future when it comes to conference time (assuming such things still exist). If I marry someone Tamizzhl, will they mind attending FOKANA? Will I feel out of place at whatever Tamil group they might belong to? What are Aviyal couples supposed to/going to do?
.
Jasmin, your words made me get all teary-eyed. Thank you. If you were here, I'd hug you. Instead, whenever I meet you, I will buy you a drink (selecting the Chivas/Johnny Valker strictly optional). Comments like that are what make all the drama worthwhile. I'll work on a worthy response to your questions and post soon.
Not so fast...some of caste specifics i have read from second gen desis is hig-res stuff.
I agree with Shodan. A DBD myself, I found many (not all) of these cliques quite laughable really - the narrow caste-based orgs are not worth belonging to, IMHO - and the overall conservatism of the immigrant parents fairly depressing.
I would not mind belonging to an organization that represented a state as a whole or a community as a whole - Malyali Association or Bengali Association or Punjabi Association - because a regional identity based on language or cuisine is worth preserving (anyone can learn a language or cook a certain kind of food) but a caste-based organization? I mean, come on. The irony is that in India, we are constantly being exhorted to rise above the divisions of state and region in the cause of national unity (the whole plot really of the movie "Chak De India"). In the west, it seems that Indians not only cluster, but they cluster within extreme subdivisions of their identities.
Thats funny Neale. The East African Goans see themselves as different from Goans from ... well Goa. I think they have since split up into two organizations since there are power struggles even at the sub-minority level. To make things complicated I have East-Indian (form Bombay) roots which are an even smaller minority which differentiates themselves from Goans. All this reaches the level of the absurd. This was all a little new to me since I was raised in the US.
I have to agree with the posters that theorized that our parent's generation that moved to the US in the 60s and 70s were much more open to integrating with other Desis. I have heard conversations in my workplace where recent arrivals who were from a similar in India have disparaged other groups of Desis. I think in India this is a common mindset between groups in the India which I see carrying over the US recently.
By the way Anna great post it is very relevant to first and second gen desis.
To both razib @ 28 & ANNA @ 30,
There is going to another increasing kind of brown America from desh which will be mish-mash themselves; thanks to inter-regional marriages. Then the future ABDs have to go to more than one of these cultural organizations. Imagine their plight.
nil
Even funnier is the fact that i was born in Nairobi but we returned to Goa when i was real tiny. So, in theory, ....well forget it :-) ...and don't get me started about Mangloreans ;-)
Neale @ 52,
You have touched my soft-corner for lists again. So here it goes... Now lets list the focal points the DBDs in America base their identities on
and hence the propensity towards herding into organizations - (a) religion (b) mother tongue (c) caste (d) state and/or city they grew up in India (e) profession (f) food. Can anybody else think of anymore focal points ?
It will probably consolidate at that point, to widen the scope of the members. But belonging to multiple organizations is not a major hassle by itself. It is also an opportunity to meet more people, which might compensate for the risk of not being able to fit fully in either of them.
Neale and nil, there used to be an imaginatively titled organization called GEM (Goan East Indian Mangalorean) association of Texas I think. Think its defunct now.
If any one you guys are in the NE area check out the Indian Catholic Association of New England. Mostly Mangies and Goans.
The real centre of gravity of the Indian Catholic community is in Canada though, specifically Toronto, where they even celebrate Bandra Fair !
Neale,
This is OT and moderators please feel free to delete, I am not sure if you know, I used to buy goa sausages on goacom.com and it looks like the shopping link is now inactive, do you by any chance know of any other places where they sell goa sausages?
dude... that was wicked. :-) it's all good fun tho'. [as long as they dont take themselves too seriously]. i have good memories from my pre-teen years of exchanging some collectible car/animal cards, watching the girls grow a foot taller and sprout boobies almost as we watched, hiding slippers at weddings and playing hide and seek behind tents.
i still maintain the prime purpose of this is for people to get together, compare notes on property prices/kids' report cards/deaths/births/suitable boys/mrs ghei's new gold necklace/kulsoom's blooming rotundity etc. the common 'culture' is incidental. having been part of 'white' (excuse me) family events as well - it doesnt change. it's human ot gossip.
I am a malayalee DBD. I am reluctant to attend FOKANA or any other conferences or meetings. I find them too loud, arrogant and uncultured. One of them I attended for a few hours not too long ago had a Hindu religious sermon going on in one conference room, a drunken brawl in the other, shocked senior citizens ( read- visiting grandparents) walking around without a clue, bewildered and out of place. Embarrassed youngsters huddling and talking in whispers or quietly walking out of the entire picture. Ammas in the finest silk and adorning all the gold they own , walking around and yelling at confused wait staff. Total confusion. My good friend who was one of the organizers, invited ( insisting and threatening with dire consequences) me to stay for dinner which I politely declined making up an excuse and I darted out through the nearest exit stopping only when I was inside my vehicle. It was pathetic!
I don't join caste based orgs either but do castes have their own subcultures that are worth preserving? In Gujarat I know Patels and Brhamins have unique ways of cooking. Some castes are known for the way they put sugar into their foods, other castes use lots of ghee.
I know in Gujarat there are also caste specific dialects. Some castes replace the Z's in Persian/Arabic words w/ Js, others don't. Some Surat based lower castes replace S's with H's (tho Surti Patels don't).
I am against castes - they should be done away with but we are going to lose a lot of these interesting quirks and subcultures as the caste system weakens here and in India.
i didn't know what fokana stood for, so i googled it. sounds like a lot of fun :)
brown,
any other places where they sell goa sausages?
brown
Didn't know you could even bring them into the country. I think i tried once, and they were promptly dumped at LAX. So, i drowned my sorrows in the Feni that survived.
I think technology has played a role for the young H1s/F1s not missing so much of home. It is very inexpensive to talk / video chat with folks back home and thru cell phones they are in touch 24/7.
Some people take it to the very extreme. I had my friends' sister google talk to my friend when he was at my place telling him she woke up and is going to drink coffee and then hung up. He was talking to me while talking to his sister through his laptop (hands free). She is not computer savvy. So my friend uses remote desktop to login to his home computer to find and fix problems. Also people are using and manipulating VOIP phones which makes it pretty much the cost of a local call.
I would not mind belonging to an organization that represented a state as a whole or a community as a whole - Malyali Association or Bengali Association or Punjabi Association - because a regional identity based on language or cuisine is worth preserving (anyone can learn a language or cook a certain kind of food) but a caste-based organization? I mean, come on. The irony is that in India, we are constantly being exhorted to rise above the divisions of state and region in the cause of national unity (the whole plot really of the movie "Chak De India"). In the west, it seems that Indians not only cluster, but they cluster within extreme subdivisions of their identities.
Sharmishta @ 53, So finally the choice of belonging to an organization will be based on which sub-division you give the highest priority and is harmless ? Once again a problem of making a choice.
Thats the story of being an East Indian ... even most Goans and Mangies don't know you exist :).
I hear Toronto is like being in Bandra ... as for Bandra Fair, East Indians started that. Okay, I'm just disproving all the points I was making about not being about labels.
As far as finding Goa sausages in the US, I think the site that used to sell them is now defunct. I will be traveling there in a few weeks and will be back loaded with quite a few (and some feni), if I can get them thru those pesky customs agents :). The forbidden quality they have makes them much more appealing. Sorry for the OT.
The irony of this discussion is that no matter what group we associate ourselves with to the vast majority of Americans we are all "Indians" and will be seen as a monolithic group.
Trying to find suitable sausage is NEVER off-topic.
(couldn't resist, just couldn't)
Having read all that, would you agree that I was a bit kinder in my post? :) Thangawd my one and only HOkana was not like THAT.
Generally the rules are enforced more strictly for bringing in meat products, but the Ag department is fairly relaxed if whatever you bring in is pickled/preserved in any way (oil/brine essentially). As long as they are satisfied that the stuff you bring in is not carrying random microbes and pathogens, they don't seem to throw anything out. Raw anything is generally taboo - especially root vegetables or anything that could be holding soil on it.
My years at engg hostels in India played a big part in my understanding of other Indians. Will never regret those years.
Probably depends on their level of involvement with another sub-identity organization. I've only ever been to local Sri-Lankan Association galattas--though I've heard from relatives how 'ridonkulous' the Tamil Sangam youth conferences can be(uncorroborated of course--has anyone been to a national Tamil-identity conference?)--and they broke up after a year over a baseless dispute concerning the number of Tamil v. Singhalese songs being played at a given event.
sadly, it did not end in dance-fight, but rather unanswered verbal salvos from both sides.
So? They can still be free of pathogens, right? (The sausages, not the pigs).
... and you know Goan sausage is the best (rimshot)... sorry I couldn't resist.
Neale, I've never had any issues getting it thru. Ofcourse I grew up in So Cal and used to sound like Jeff Spicoli and my "Wha..? food products what do you mean?" shtick usually got me thru, so my parents used me as the sausage mule.
I've been behaving myself not making bad jokes and you just have to throw that one across, don't you?
So did they do a body cavity search to find where you had hidden the sausage?
"Having read all that, would you agree that I was a bit kinder in my post? :) Thangawd my one and only HOkana was not like THAT."
oh, you were much too kind:)
I don't get it - can't all food products be irradiated to depathogenize them without changing their culinary properties? Is there some reason why sausages are always expected to have pathogens in them? I'm not saying that it should be eaten raw, just that it can be irradiated enough to make it safe to do so.
Considering the abundance of such regional/caste/language-specific groups, is there really any hope of putting aside all differences and working toward a pan-Desi cause? Do such causes even exist?
"wrap it up, son! wrap it up!"
I've never been to one of these conventions, my parents steered clear. I was talking to a Korean acquaintance, he mentioned they have yearly Korean-American lurv boats to match the kids up. Much simpler for them, I guess the only divide is between Buddhists and Baptists.
Hey! That advice should be given to Nil, who self-identified as a sausage mule upthread.
*cough*
I know that was too easy pingpong. I was speaking metaphorically of course but ofcourse you can imagine Jeff Spicoli saying, "whoa dude ... no sausages there" :). Neale, you have a deal.
i've only been to the tamil, TANA and kannada kootta conferences and the use of english at these conferences was minimal to nil (essentially, it was only heard when non-native speakers or ABDs were addressing the audience). I assume this is how it is for all regional/linguistic-based conferences? what of conferences that span more than one language group?
really? I can't say i'm surprised but i was recently told by some Chennai Tam Brams that in order to learn technically-correct Tamizh, that I should avoid India and press my Lankan relatives for tips.
were you referring to the rift between indian and sri lankan tamils? i think much of it has to do with ltte issues....
oh no...i was under the impression that the lankan/indian split in organizational unity is because Selvam uncle from Chennai is not too thrilled about attending 15,000 Maaveraar Naal, suicide-bomber-glorification orgies involving the grand Marshall P-raps and his so-not-slimming camouflage.
Kidding aside, is there a conflict between, say, the extremist separatists and the moderate separatists at meetups? Is there anyone who might sympathize with the separatism (independence or autonomy) but not with the LTTE itself?
*patties via thamizh.
I am too lazy to google - what is Fokana?
on that note - the sweetest ad I've seen in a looong while. :-)
Oh, they are the same over-enthusiastic patties you see at the patti-mandrams.
That "separatist/autonomy but no LTTE" population is certainly large but I'd think that no-one would put themselves out there as such in a forum (national conference) where many other community members (possible 'true' Tiger fans) could hear one say so. It's safer to be considered agnostic on the issue.
Just from family experience (is there any other kind of anecdotal reference for SL Tams?) there's a certain apathy about discussing current events and a feeling that not touching it with a 10-foot pole is the best course of action.
I doubt you could find a similar SL Tam event in Toronto that did not involve stumping for P-Raps, hence the sense of, "if it happened, it would be organized by open supporters of P-raps and exclude most Indians and SL Tams..."
"the Uncles strutting about, moustaches in full effect, declaring random things in voices so loud, "
Hey, watch it!
own it! I aspire to such strutting, while twirling my mustache, at some event in the future.
Aishwarya is South Indian???? It's for these interesting tidbits that I keep reading SM.
Federation of Kerala Ass-ociations of North America
I always thought the whole National Conference gig was a way for parents so set their kids for up for marriage...I know a good friend of mine who's marathi said so about their regional convention. Is that the case??
And to add to it...did you guys/gals know there is also a NASA ?
Yes, very weird. :)
My parents live in a little Kerala, I like to think that I bring diversity to it. :)
Umm... NALA?? There's an organization named after me?? :P
And I think we should point out that there's a difference between spaces like Sepia Mutiny and a lot of other organizations that take on the 'South Asian' label, like a lot of college SASAs, which have their own stringent requirements.
I think there's a class difference here... at least for people who came here for undergrad, I'm gonna assume that they come from higher class/more 'Westernized' families to begin with, and may therefore feel more comfortable away from home.