what a horrible senseless act. I am deeply sorry for the families of Kiran and Chandrasekhar.

“The tragic homicides that took place on campus on Thursday evening provided an opportunity for the university to test its new emergency text-message system. Thanks to feedback from members of the LSU community, university officials learned that not everyone who had registered their cellphones with the system received a message.

for those who'll come later lamenting the oversensitiveness of the blogger and this response, the referenced statement is a poor choice of words. a better choice of words was warranted. if this was the official statement, that official needs to be taken to task. if it was some geek with a bad moment, i hope he gets a tongue lashing from her/his boss.

This is unimaginably tragic. The Yahoo news piece says authorities are not able to tell if the shootings were random or targeted. Has there been any update since?

I can't imagine what the families and community must be going through. My thoughts are with them during a most trying time.

Anna,

First thanks for posting the article. I had read it this morning and sent it out to various groups I am connected with. It is good that Sepia had it up within the 24 hour period. My heart goes out to the wife, and the families, as well as the community out in LA. The minimal details that are available provide more conjecture and frustration than information.

The concerns you brought up about not only callousness, but also the loss of information as a story is tracked throughout the day is incredibly important as well.

Awful. Profound sympathies to the families.
I'm no crime expert, but the facts here don't strike me as obviously being a random break-in. Not the MO of your average robbers. But, who knows....time will tell.

One of victim's wife was pregnant. So it is going to be horrible for both the mother and kid when it is born.

Sigh! To come half way around the world to do a PhD and to be murdered by uneducated local scum.

Find peace, brothers.

Another Indian killed in a home invasion robbery in Los Angeles suburb of Diamond Bar, which has a large Indian population.

http://indiapost.com/article/communitypost/1599/

Looks like his Mercedes was taken in the robbery as well. His wife also found him dead here. Seems like these home invasion robberies are on the rise, or at least more commonly reported right now. Sean Taylor, the LSU people, this man, we've had a few others out here in California. I thought this was a thing of the 1990's more than today.

I couldn’t believe one of the links I read (now altered, natch) which quoted a school official as stating that this was an opportunity to test out the emergency text messaging alert system which many Universities implemented after the Virginia Tech tragedy.

Because they couldn't have tested the system with a mock drill or anything.

What a callous response to a devastating event.

uneducated local scum.

Als, in context of the person with the unfortunate turn of phrase - before ascribing racial animus (as I did earlier and apologize now for doing so) it may be best to hold off. it may yet be an international student with a poor command over english working on the notification system deployment*. He still deserves a tonguelashing though.

*where i went to school, there were all kinds of research assistantships available in different departments who needed technical work done for cheap in return for tuition fee waivers (i got through grad school like that :-/). it's all hypothesis, but better to be prudent.

The online article at Deccan Herald.com mentions that Allam's father is a famous Telugu author.

In the bay area there used to be a gang that robbed desi homes for gold/jewelry and valuables. But student housing seems like an unlikely target.

Not the first time the LSU area has had shocking homicides in recent years. Though this present case seems like a robbery rather than a serial killing.

But student housing seems like an unlikely target.

First, as a LSU alum, my heartfelt condolences.

Now to the point, a lot of American Universities are adjacent violent neighborhoods of high crime (these neighborhoods happen to be extremely poor too). Examples: parts of... LSU, Columbia University, Wright State, University of Chicago.

Parts of LSU are next to an urbanized ghetto areas, and Edward Gay apartment complex happens to be in that area. One of the LSU graduate student housing is Edward Gay apartment complex, and often new international graduate students use that option. Baton Rouge as a whole has pockets of very crime incidences.

So nothing can be said of the motive. Probably, some sort of robbery to buy drugs, I would guess.

But it is quite tragic.

My heart goes out to the family. Here is a support fund set up for their family :
http://appl003.lsu.edu/unv002.nsf/9faf000d8eb58d4986256abe00720a51/968cc4435caa329b862573b1007c1456?OpenDocument

a lot of American Universities are adjacent to violent neighborhoods

so were the killers white or black? or does it not matter ?

LSU Chancellor Sean O’Keefe

O'Keefe is the former head of NASA by the way.

# 11, 12:

The strange thing is, this doesn't look like a robbery--report above says nothing taken; and most robbers don't go out of their way to kill.

Now to the point, a lot of American Universities are adjacent violent neighborhoods of high crime (these neighborhoods happen to be extremely poor too). Examples: parts of... LSU, Columbia University, Wright State, University of Chicago.

I think Columbia has improved significantly (though this will be disputed by the "gentrification is evil" set) over the past decade. A Senegalese PhD student at the University of Chicago was recently killed in a robbery murder.

My condolences to the parents of of Komma and Allam

The strange thing is, this doesn't look like a robbery--report above says nothing taken; and most robbers don't go out of their way to kill.

Unless high on drugs, not finding enough money, or pissed off for some reason (people who broke in felt threatened at some point, upset on not finding enough cash for their heist, or just upset at damn phoreners or their girl friends (boy friends) had made them in foul mood earlier in the day).

Moral: There are no cardinal rules for evolution of robbery. I cannot (or anyone) can say anything with the news available. However, that area of Baton Rouge is very shadey, and it is quite sad for these students, and their families.

I can bet my very dear wife's behind that this is yet another Black on South Asian hate crime.

First of all, my condolences to the families of Komma and Allam. May the men rest in peace.

“The tragic homicides that took place on campus on Thursday evening provided an opportunity for the university to test its new emergency text-message system. Thanks to feedback from members of the LSU community, university officials learned that not everyone who had registered their cellphones with the system received a message.

I also think that if these were white students who were murdered, it would definitely be a top story.

I can bet my very dear wife's behind that this is yet another Black on South Asian hate crime.

You may have to kiss your dear wife's behind goodbye if you make that bet. Too many people are jumping to the conclusion that this was a bunch of black crackheads looking for drug money. As if grad students from India are loaded with cash. These guys were targeted and shot once each in the head. Nothing was stolen. Looks like a hit job.

Its quite possible that the KKK or neo-nazis are behind this. Louisiana almost elected the klansman and neo-nazi David Duke Governor a while back and now has an indian governor-elect, Bobby Jindal. That surely must rub the white racists there the wrong way. The attack took place within blocks of Jindal's headquarters apparently.

jhamu, I wouldnt jump to conclusion's like that. Dont get that "OHHHH the blacks are coming to get us" attitude.

If it wasnt for black people then the Indian people in America either wouldnt be here or would be going to "colored only" schools and drinking from the "colored fountain". If it was a black person, who did this then that individual is a piece of trash, not his whole race.

Guys, can we not jump to these conclusions yet? The investigation is on, we would be better served to comfort the families of the victims in what must surely be trying times.

it doesn't matter how educated or what color the criminals were....this is plain tragic! i can't believe some of the comments on here that are so focused on the idiots behind it.

i believe justice should be served indeed, but the person's background doesn't matter bc they are obviously disturbed. i mean whoever did this killed these guys execution style :(

also i think it is important to focus on the victims. losing these victims is a lot to us all it's a loss to LA, to the US, to the Des and the world. more likely than not, these scholars would have gone on to make great contributions in their respective fields.

also i know many of us can relate to and empathize with the victims, because of our backgrounds or experiences with DBDs. i mean this just hits close to home. but let's not forget that our country is way too violent--- period. whether it's large scale attacks like the recent mall shooting in NE or small scale, yet horrific attacks as here.

we need to really think about what we can do to make this world a safer place starting at home. it's bad enough we are engaged in 'war' abroad but how can we protect civilians right here?

Its quite possible that the KKK or neo-nazis are behind this. Louisiana almost elected the klansman and neo-nazi David Duke Governor a while back and now has an indian governor-elect, Bobby Jindal. That surely must rub the white racists there the wrong way. The attack took place within blocks of Jindal's headquarters apparently.

Doesn't seem like KKK or neo-Nazis. Atleast that's not the profile of the people the authorities are looking for. From the article linked in the post:

Authorities are searching for three men seen hurriedly leaving the area of the LSU apartments where two doctoral students were shot to death Thursday night, according to a task force formed to investigate the killings.

Three young black males got into a small- to mid-size four-door car that was possibly occupied by a fourth person acting as a driver, according to a news release issued about 6 p.m. by the task force.

What a shameful, horrific event. My condolences to the families and friends of the victims.

(The posts #22 and #23 offer very realistic explanations and views. What a sad situation.)

Its quite possible that the KKK or neo-nazis are behind this. Louisiana almost elected the klansman and neo-nazi David Duke Governor a while back and now has an indian governor-elect, Bobby Jindal. That surely must rub the white racists there the wrong way. The attack took place within blocks of Jindal's headquarters apparently.

First, this thread is about condolences, and balm to the grieved.

Second, do you (Robby) even know anything about the neighborhood or Baton Rouge where the killing happened.

True, LA and Baton Rouge has its own share of KKK and Neo-Nazis. Baton Rouge was in 60s, on the forefront, during civil rights movement, and segregated delis, and rest rooms.

However, that neighborhood next to Edward Gay Apartments is an area with African American dominated projects. FYI: A Klansman would get shot dead in 10 minutes there.

If you drive 10 minutes on that road, you hit downtown, and probably that is where Bobby Jindal's transition team is situated (I am not sure but guessing).

NB: I do not wish to start a race baiting session here, but, speculation without knowledge of the area (like Klansman did it) is as useless as it comes.

What a tragic incident. My heart goes out to both the families.

Anna- Thanks for blogging about this news.

The title "DBD Nightmare" sounds a bit odd.

Bobby Jindal's transition team is situated in one of the buildings of LSU campus, quite close to "Death Valley" football stadium. Their are situated in:

Kirby Smith Hall, LSU Campus
Baton Rouge, LA 70810

Practically, across the football stadium is David Gray Apartments, and across the David Gray Apartments is also the railways tracks, and houses with "garrison" windows, unrentable houses. Railways tracks has been a "divide" in American towns and cities for centuries.

If something can come of out of this tragedy, is that, new international students should make inquiries about the safety of the region before they pick a place to live. Also, Universities should not only provide the crime statistics of the campus (which by law they are supposed to, and they do now) but also of the city. In that way, a young student - be it American, International can make informed decisions.

Terrible tragedy. The dead bodies will probably be flown back to India. I can only imagine the scenes at the Airport. I wont be surprised if this was a robbery gone bad. I am a big propoent of the felony murder rule where if you accidently or inadvertently end up killing someone while committing violent felonies like robbery, you are charged with murder.

Sometimes I wish the assailants are made to observe and live with the family and see their grief, the burial and all that is destroyed. In India, a lot of Muslims engage in this rather self flagellating way of burying the dead where the dead is placed on a cot on the way to the cemetary and the cot is supported on the shoulders of family and friends. Its called 'kandha dena' (giving shoulder) I dont know if the Hindus do that or not.

not being up on all the desi slang what does DBDs stand for?

what does DBDs stand for?

Desh Born Desi.

In India, a lot of Muslims engage in this rather self flagellating way of burying the dead where the dead is placed on a cot on the way to the cemetary and the cot is supported on the shoulders of family and friends. Its called 'kandha dena' (giving shoulder) I dont know if the Hindus do that or not.

Hindus do the exactly same with long procession, sometimes from home to cremation site, with a chant "Ram Naam Satya Hai" (The name of Rama is the truth).

For the matter, even the Christians do the same, but just a shorter walk with shouldering (or pall bearer as they call it).

For the matter, even the Christians do the same, but just a shorter walk with shouldering (or pall bearer as they call it).

I think burials in the US are more formal and organized with less involvement of the family.

Tragic. Hope they catch them.
In India the dead body is kept at home for at least 24 hours prior to creamation/burial. Is there a law preventing this is here?

In India the dead body is kept at home for at least 24 hours prior to creamation/burial. Is there a law preventing this is here?

Depends on the state. For example, keeping the body for 24 hours at home might not be possible in cases where the person dies from a communicable disease and in such cases, in most states, he must be buried or cremated within 24 hours.

how tragic and terrible. my heart goes out to the families, especially the wife and unborn baby =(

It's a very sad story. Hope they catch the perpetrators.

Btw, the TOI has done very little original reporting and doesn't deserve to be linked to. The only thing they "zeroed in on" was a way to steal a few paragraphs from the Times-Picayune article.

yeah, the problem with this country is that too many jobless kallus and too many stupid goras, ready to kill at a moment's notice. Brown life is not of much value for these.

Anyway - typically news like this invites several types of desi comments:

1. 'oooh such a tragedy.. my heart goes out.. sooo saaadddd.. sob sniff boo hoo..' (these typically come from the ones who write 'kudos' and 'hats off' in good news comments ).

2. ' some idiotic kallu/gora did this. oh please note that I am against only that particular kallu/gora. I do not want to be seen as a racist. Please note that. pray that this statement does not affect my greencard application. or will it? should I delete this post? but how?'

3. ' let's not jump to conclusions. the killer could have been anyone. It could even have been another desi. Afterall, we desis are bigtime racists. desis are bad. look at that nasty country my parents escaped from. riots, killings.. How can you ever say that usa is bad and americans are bad just because some americans kill you desis? I am sure it was another desi. My american boy/girl friend says americans are such caring people. see how they say 'how you doing' whever they see you in the street? So stop ascribing racist animus. Did you notice my vocabulary? oh america america..'.

Only one thing missing - some real feeling of loss or anger.

Meanwhile ToI reports that:

The Indian government has rushed two consular officials to Baton Rouge to render all possible assistance to local authorities and Indian students stunned by the murder of two doctoral scholars from Andhra Pradesh on the Louisiana State University Campus.

KB Pillai from the Indian Consulate-General in Houston reached Baton Rouge on Friday evening and Alok Pandey from the Indian Embassy in Washington was expected there on Saturday morning as Indian students across US mourned the brutal execution-style slaying of the two students.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indian_officials_leave_for_Louisiana_varsity/articleshow/2623940.cms

Wow. Stay classy, #40...
Why is that whenever a story like this breaks SM turns into a photo-negative version of the Freep or Little Green Footballs for a night?

Holy crap. I was born and raised in that complex when my dad was getting his masters from LSU...

yup, the value of desi life to an amru..

LSU's view, I guess, goes like this:

'two of those brown things who complicated work for little pay and stay over in some cinderblock dwellings where those types stay appear to have been shot. Oh well, gotta do an investigation now since it's the law.., and more importantly find some replacements for the prof whose work those two were doing. No problem, plenty where the came from.

oh oh its a great chance to test out that cellphone response thingie we have been putting together. someone get on it. if the test fails, we might have to wait till another of those dies like this'.

Wonder if they would ahve been so callous if a gora/gori had been killed?

Where are the crying students? where are the candle light vigils? Where are the shows of support?
looks like the life of a desi grad student is worth nothing to anyone.

and thank you the mutineer who posted this, for clarifying that these are two 'DBD's.

May I ask - why the distinction, when an 'indian grad student' would have been enough? Is it so that the ABCDs/ABDs can mourn a little less or not at all? 'not one of ours, just a DBD. move on', is it?

AnotherDesi, the DBD is harmless dscriptive term. If anythjing, it makes one sadder for these students bevcause their parents have to wonder a country away what is going on with the case.

As far as the attitude of cops towards crimes on browns, I have noticed on more than one occasion where the cops seem totally indifferent to the plight of some Indian victims.

another desi: you hit the nail on the head. DBD crime - Report it and move on.

Thats how the media is also treating this case. Doesnt matter that the Columbia "noose" incident and the Delaware 2 am shooting got more media coverage than this one. None of the evening news program even mentioned it.

Surprised/Another Desi, based on your behavior here and on previous threads, we can see a pattern of ignorance and assumptions. Your tendency to switch handles on the same thread is dishonest and a desperate way to fake support for your "side". We ban for this sort of "gaming".

DBD isn't a term of disrespect.

DBD is specific. In a country where all of us, whether born here or not are often considered "outsiders", using the purportedly superior "Indian Grad Student" could mean someone who risked plenty to bravely come here in pursuit of something worthwhile...or the children of said someones. It's short-hand for members of the 1st generation.

Instead of looking for insult where there isn't any, ask yourself why your comments on other threads were roundly condemned. There is nothing but sorrow here, from people who see in these victims either themselves or their parents.

do you (Robby) even know anything about the neighborhood or Baton Rouge where the killing happened.....that neighborhood next to Edward Gay Apartments is an area with African American dominated projects. FYI: A Klansman would get shot dead in 10 minutes there.

You are talking irrational nonsense as always, Kush. As if klansmen go around wearing white sheets all the time.

Can't imagine what that pregnant wife must have gone thru.
Wonder if Bobby Jindal would do anything abt the safety of students, not just Indians but any international student who, due to lack to funds ( and hence no car), has to live near the school even if its in a bad area.
Here in Los Angeles, USC is in a very bad area too. Its smack in the middle of downtown LA and just recently had a terrible incident of a attack on a girl.

Wonder if Bobby Jindal would do anything abt the safety of students, not just Indians but any international student who, due to lack to funds ( and hence no car), has to live near the school even if its in a bad area.

Unfortunately Jindal or any other state/govt official is under very little or no obligation to protect private citizens/non citizens:

"A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." -- Warren, et al, v. District of Columbia (1979).

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public." (Lynch v. NC Dept. Justice)

Where are the crying students? where are the candle light vigils? Where are the shows of support? looks like the life of a desi grad student is worth nothing to anyone.

Memorial Service

Coverage on CNN headline news. 986 stories on google news. Story is not being ignored.

A post on the ABCNews comments page on a possible motive for the killngs:

Here's the real deal: A grad student in Kiran Allam's department (LSUchemistry) got in an altercation with him. Threatened him with his life. Nasty guy got called to Dept. Chair's office. The guy ties up the chairman of the department, gets expelled. Guy decided to settle score. attacks Kiran in his home, finds friend visiting, shoots him as well. Wait for a couple of days for this to become official. They know who did it, and are trying to hunt him now. SO, its not a hate crime, not a robbery, no-one was studying bio warfare , so just can it, 1030Static1. You're a freak, were you drunk or high when you got online? And this could have been avoided if you have laws restricting procurement of guns. Anyone wanting to make nasty comments about the students, go elsewhere.

The poster says he is an Indian grad student at LSU.

Awful. Profound sympathies to the families. I'm no crime expert, but the facts here don't strike me as obviously being a random break-in. Not the MO of your average robbers. But, who knows....time will tell.

This should have been much more widely and prominently reported. I agree with Brown Writer at 21 that the business of announcing the emergency systems result was very callous and in poor taste. I hope these murders will be properly investigated ---I think people/Mutineers should e-mail Bobby Jindal's office to urge/demand a thorough and speedy investigation. Imagine the extreme shock of being pregnant and coming home one evening to find your husband and his friend bound, gagged and shot dead. The baby is already harmed. The wife and families should sue LSU on whatever grounds can be brought to describe how the University enabled these murders by providing inadequate security on their turf.

I can't say much... but some people at LSU think this was definitely not your run-of-the-mill home invasion. There may be some money-lending issues going on or something like that, but there is definitely an opinion that this may not be as random as we are led to believe...

will let you know more of what i can as soon as i find out. I'm going there post-Christmas .. hoping all my friends are safe :(

SM intern: Thank you for addressing the cringe-worthy remarks of Surprised/Another Desi. In fact they should be removed because they are absolutely racist. But could you clarify what you meant by the following as most of the Indian grad student do travel far (and do risk a lot most of the time) for something worthwhile

"Indian Grad Student" could mean someone who risked plenty to bravely come here in pursuit of something worthwhile...or the children of said someones.

And all those up in arms about use of DBD term: If you have been reading this site long enough (or did some research before increasing your BP), you'd know that ABD and DBD are terms that were discussed and thought to be more appropriate rather than the derogatory FOB/ABCD.

Goddam ABCDs started calling everybody as variations of their own name, and then they lecture everybody to just accept it. Typical American behavior

I agree with zuni, DBD much better than FOB (except when a FOB uses FOB, makes it funny).

And as far as the location of universities go, I have to agree, they always seem to have areas that need to be avoided.

The media is mentioning the incident, but I am yet to see anyone raise their voice about the callous email. Now that the student newspaper has removed the story and the comments, they might have ended the issue.

Since ABD and DBD are often terms that hold cultural signposts (that is, we can make some inferences about their life and experiences within the US), out of sheer curiosity - what would you call people who were born in a South Asian country, but moved to the US at age two, and therefor have more in common with ABDs?

first of all, I am very saddened by this news, and my heart goes out to the families.

I hope this will cause Baton Rouge and LSU officials (including Jindal, et al) to address some of the chronic dysfunction that may be pertinent to this terrible event. i lived on Roosevelt St in a slummy, roach-filled shotgun opposite ed gay apts from 85-89 when i was an undergrad at LSU. i couldn't afford anywhere else, and it was within walking distance to campus and my job waiting tables (on Nicholson). i was mugged at gunpoint twice, and a friend of mine was raped on Aster st. Then i moved to Chimes st, two doors from the Bayou, where I was mugged again.

*All* of the residential areas north of campus have been very poor and crime-ridden for decades. my parents, who both attended LSU in 60s remember chronic problems and the odd sensational incident in that tension-filled zone between privilege and poverty. the question is, after all these years of documented problems, why hasn't LSU (who for obvious reasons won't publicize these problems) invested the money, to either:

1) fund the construction of grad/married student housing in a better area--after all, mostly foreign students, paying hefty foreign-student fees, live there. Surely the money could've been allocated (perhaps with private partnership) to develop a complex on the south side of campus, which has been explosively developed in the last ten years. I am always astounded when i return to visit my family during the holidays how fast things have changed on the south and west side of campus, and it is striking how the north side remains the same. Foreign students depend on the school for guidance about safe areas to live, and there is an assumption that on-campus housing should be even safer. This has never been the case, unfortunately, at LSU, which remains vast, sprawling, and open.

2) fund local community efforts to make the surrounding neighborhoods more liveable generally. for *years* there has been no supermarket near campus, for instance, impacting both students and local residents with no cars. meanwhile bus service continues to suck, serving primarily as a kind of maid-ferrying shuttle for poor black women from north of campus to the posh suburbs southwards. Surely LSU could do something concrete to make the university more relevant to the local community. I am very glad not to be in Baton Rouge anymore--when i left I felt like a rat leaving a sinking ship.

Finally, I agree with the posters above that the whole text alert issue has been exceptionally callously handled. And it seems especially offensive that the failures of the alert system often threaten to overtake the news articles that should be focusing on the facts surrounding the terrible crime. The mom (quoted in one of the articles) complaining about how her daughter's whole sorority didn't get the alert is simultaneously galling and boring because sorority row is one of the prettiest and most well-guarded areas southeast of campus. The alert system issue seems like a red-herring and should be dropped from the discussion period.

The alert system issue seems like a red-herring and should be dropped from the discussion period.

I was referring to the crimes recounted by Baton Rouger in # 62.

Jhamu: Why is it that it is generally not safe for women in India to walk around on their own ? What does the cess pool that is the Indian criminal justice system say about us ?

Jhamu: Why is it that it is generally not safe for women in India to walk around on their own ? What does the cess pool that is the Indian criminal justice system say about us ?

louiecypher, to stay on topic, if an American grad student in India were murdered at home while living in on campus housing, don't you think there would be less talk of whether everyone's phone beeped or texted right afterwards?

amrita (#63): I mean the news reportage on the killings. While it's perfectly valid for LSU to be concerned that their system is not working as planned, I believe it is a mistake for LSU officials and news media reporters to report on the two issues in the same breath. Not only is it distracting, but it's simply bad PR: it frames everything in a local-news perspective, with all its provincial prejudices: "omg, how does that news affect *me and only me*?" The story is the tragic loss of two lives, not whether sorority girls should lock the doors of their well-landscaped mansions. Had the news media not conveyed the news so muddily, it might not have become the racialized issue it seems to have become for some posters here. I believe that LSU would have announced the failures of their alert system just as clumsily no matter who was killed on campus; LSU bureaucrats and security force are as incompetent as can be expected of any big institution.

Got it ex-baton rouger. Even if it's just clumsy PR, and I'm not sure big necessarily means clumsy, I think there's negligence at play here. I mean, why don't they have basic security arrangements in place in such a setting/surroundings? no gates? no surveillance cameras? How are foreigners supposed to be savvy enough to cope?

out of sheer curiosity - what would you call people who were born in a South Asian country, but moved to the US at age two, and therefor have more in common with ABDs?

In that case, I doubt you would use either term. They probably would use Indian and go into their backgrounds in the writeup. Look, the term DBD here was used merely as a shorthand to give us an instant picture of the victims. My feeling is that when we look at the title, we get an instant snapshot of the victims and how far their parents live. I don't think it is meant to be judgemental. This sense of outrage is getting out of hand. Whenever someone covers a tragedy, we seem to get posts whining about why SM did not cover this or that.

Ex Baton Rouger, excellent comments that give us a great picture of what is going on.

This is such a sad story. These two people living so far away from home, living away from their family, hoping to start a new family. Poverty is another obstacle that foreign grad students face. While American grad students aren't rich either, many internationals (especially DBDs, not talking of some rich students from certain countries) are significantly poorer. Just getting a car (in many places a necessity) and decent furniture takes years of saving. On top of that, many save up money from the small stipends to send home to their family in Desh. So many sacrifices for a chance at something... and then, BAM, all gone.

Another matter that may not seem such a big deal - I don't know if they were hoping to have their baby be an ABD. If the woman is on a dependent status (F2) and not a student/worker herself, she might have to leave the country immediately and not give birth here. Granted, it's much smaller a deal than the death of the father, but it could also be the death of a dream for the parents. I say this because I have known friends who (for reasons not too clear to me) dream of this and are really proud of their children being American, often proudly saying things like "She's a global citizen" or "I'm an alien/resident, but he's a CITIZEN". Most of all, I'm really sad for the wife. When she returns, what a horrible memory she will have of America, losing so much and going through so much sadness in a short time.

I am very glad not to be in Baton Rouge anymore--when i left I felt like a rat leaving a sinking ship.

Hmmm, isnt that exactly how many if not most desis feel when they leave the desh? Would you prefer living in India instead?

In Bangalore the locals are starting to physically assault the IT pros, I hear.

"You hear"...
I go there every summer and yes with the advent of the IT industry things have become very expensive. But assaulting IT workers...???? Please link to articles in newspapers or magazines.

Leaving India is as good as leaving a sinking ship! WOW! You certainly have a low opinion of immigrants, eh!

Jhamu: Why is it that it is generally not safe for women in India to walk around on their own ? What does the cess pool that is the Indian criminal justice system say about us ?

louiecypher, to stay on topic, if an American grad student in India were murdered at home while living in on campus housing, don't you think there would be less talk of whether everyone's phone beeped or texted right afterwards?

Amrita: Jhamu had made a racist statement to the effect that "blacks murder & rape wherever they are" that was deleted by the SM Intern...that's what I was responding to. I am not moved by the fact SM readers might disagree with me, because for the most part they know a judge/MLA/IPS officer within one degree of separation and so of course Indian justice works for them.

Is the communications from LSU hamfisted ? Yes. Would it have been better communicated if the victims were white, I don't know this is LSU and not some Ivy where they hire heavy hitter corporate PR types to keep the endowment money rolling in. Could be ineptitude or it could be racism. Would you care to examine the use of the English language in the Indian press ? Murderers are described as "miscreants", what broad conclusions are you willing to draw about the value of life in India from that ?

I don't know this is LSU and not some Ivy where they hire heavy hitter corporate PR types to keep the endowment money rolling in

LSU, while being a major state school, an ex-NASA chief as their current chancellor, flagship university with enormous state resources put there from time immemorial (since Huey P Long loved LSU to death and powerful legislators in Louisiana are always LSU Tigers), once a basketball ball powerhouse, now in baseball, and football (twice in national championship in last 5 years and a current football coach with 3 million dollar annual salary) - LSU has a long history of bad PR - like dis-enrolling hundreds of iranian students during iran hostage crisis, and later relenting, the list never ends.

I have been seriously thinking of writing directly to the Chancellor. He should know about the faux pas.

Mytri,

Article discussing disenchantment about the IT industry and assault upon IT workers:

http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20071217&fname=Cover+Story+%28F%29&sid=1

Yes. Would it have been better communicated if the victims were white, I don't know this is LSU and not some Ivy where they hire heavy hitter corporate PR types to keep the endowment money rolling in

The answer is Yes. It would have been different if the victim was white.

LSU also has had one of the largest single donor endowment in American educational history - by Pennington family foundation - which made the Pennington BioMedical Center there - one of its kind in the world

It takes brave, wise men to somehow link this tragedy to Christianity, so that they have a flimsy excuse to insult a religion they find inferior and inauthentic; in the name of efficiency, they spit out the name of LA's new Governor, too...better to tar two things with one trolling.

It is disgusting that one of you shamelessly suggested that people might brush off this horrific loss as anything less than an awful tragedy, because the victims "weren't saved". You are the worst ambassadors for whatever you stupidly think you are upholding or protecting. Don't you dare accuse me of filth that I certainly did not say, write or imply. Instead of libel, try masturbation if you need to get your jollies.

As for those courageous souls who curse us as "Goddamned ABCDs", you don't know what you're talking about (not that it will stop you from shitting in this swimming pool with your assumptions). I didn't unilaterally decide that we were going to use ABD and DBD as respectful, neutral "abbreviations", THE COMMUNITY DID. You'd know that if you read the blog instead of venting on it.

And finally, to the jerk whose comment was deleted- did it ever occur to you that I tried to blog about the story you said "we didn't have the guts to cover", but I couldn't bear to? I'm not a robot. I'm a human who experiences emotions. If I'm crying too hard to type, good golly, no post for you-- that's life. Deal. If I can't, I can't. If we can't, we can't. You need to get over your bizarre, irrational need for recognition of tragedies, which you feel like seeing blogged here.

THIS IS A BLOG. NOTHING MORE. STOP INSULTING US OR THREATENING US FOR NOT POSTING SOMETHING.

If it matters to you so much, where's your blog? Who made me your peon? I give all I can to this, which is more than I can say for you unbelievably negative few who pollute this community with your nastiness.

Wow, this is horrible on many fronts. It's been a while since I've been able to read this blog and I'm not happy to see a post on such tragedy. Thanks for writing about it because I had not heard about it yet.

@Anna (aka "I've HAD it") - I'm not sure which comments you are referring to (since it looks like they were deleted) but it sounds like they were crazy comments from crazy, frustrated, have no life people. You are so right that if people want to 'cover a story' then they should start their own blog or start their own campaign about it. I'm always surprised (maybe since I'm so new to blogging and putting myself out there in the Internet) that people can be so tacky, insensitive, and downright *&^holes about stuff just because they feel safe not saying it to your face. It takes guts to do what you do and write what you write about from many aspects and I admire that. Don't let it get to you.

Aruni, thanks. I am considerably calmer now and I wonder-- these people are obviously deeply affected by this tragedy...so why not give to the relief fund set up for the murder victims instead of anonymously typing deletable worthlessness here?

Dear Sepia Mutiny ( pro sikh and pro christian ),

Please provide coverage to the ethnic cleansing of Indians in Malaysia. As we speak many Indians are being tortured, and abused in Malaysia. If you dont cover this and spread awareness who will ?

It is great that you cover desi centric topics ranging from mundane to tantalizing.. but I urge you to
cover this issue.

1.8 million Indians are under attack in Malaysia and you dont even blink??

Thankyou,

Tamil Tigers.

p.s. dont try to ban our i.p. addresses, we can create 1999^10000 proxies.. just get the message.
cover the issue abhi tripathi of los angeles.

Tamil Tiger, go start your own blog somewhere else. If there is enough interest, people will come.

we can create 1999^10000 proxies

tamil tiger, that would be a bit pointless since there are only 2^32 distinct ip addresses possible, and even IPv6 will give you only 2^128 addresses. so creating such a large number of proxies would require a nat, and that defeats the entire purpose of creating them in the first place.

i can't dance but i do want to be part of your revolution, which is why i am offering this consultancy gratis.

sat sri akal!
hail mary!

I'm a LSU student who is white, but I grew up around many Indian families and I have to say they are some of Baton Rouge's most valuable families and I'm not the only one who recognizes this. I hope you all don't think that everyone outside of the Indian community in Baton Rouge is ignoring the tragedy.

I am so saddened by what happened on Thursday, and I am so embarrassed and angered, but unfortunately not surprised, by the way LSU has handled it. My fiance' used to live in Nicholson, the other apartment complex for married and graduate students, and he has been literally sick since we heard about Allam and Komma's murders. Ever since he moved into Nicholson, we have been screaming for police to step up patrols, to add security measures such as cameras and fences, to just fix up Nicholson and Ed Gay. It is sickening that LSU puts its brightest and most promising students and their families in the worst areas of campus and in the worst complexes. The apartments are so grossly neglected.

I just want to say how deeply saddened I am that we have lost two wonderful people in our community, and I want to apologize for how badly the administration has handled this. Many students have been calling for O'Keefe's resignation as a result of how awfully the entire thing has been botched. I hope you know though that so many students on our campus, both Indian and non-Indian alike, have the men and their families in our thoughts and prayers.

Silly question by an Indian- Are temporary residents (students, H1-B holders etc.) allowed to own guns? If yes, can then apply for & get conceal-carry permits?

Is the communications from LSU hamfisted ? Yes. Would it have been better communicated if the victims were white, I don't know this is LSU and not some Ivy where they hire heavy hitter corporate PR types to keep the endowment money rolling in. Could be ineptitude or it could be racism. Would you care to examine the use of the English language in the Indian press ? Murderers are described as "miscreants", what broad conclusions are you willing to draw about the value of life in India from that ?

louiecypher. you already got your best answer to your second question, the one without a question mark, from Kush Tandon. My answer to your last question is: None. What kind of behavior do you sometimes call police brutality in New York and LA?

Communiucations, whether clumsy or deft, certainly come second to nonexistent security arrangements for impoverished foreign students. They'll likely never fix this without a lawsuit.

Another crime committed against Indians (or any peace loving human being for that matter) by vile, vicious, rotten scum that has turn itself into a cancer that's eating societies from the inside while people sitting in their ivory towers are too afraid to call a spade a spade. Who will fill the void for the families left by these two men? You?

And who are the spades you would wish to have called spades, O great Spadeville? Come on: Say what you have to say. Have the courage to express yourself, or if all you have to say is dim innuendo, go away.

p.s. dont try to ban our i.p. addresses, we can create 1999^10000 proxies.. just get the message. cover the issue abhi tripathi of los angeles.

We quake before the power of your cyberwar techniques, O Tigers. I just got the message. It says, " talk is cheap."

I myself am an LSU student, though I am not Indian. I had a biology lab with one of the victims, while we never really spoke, as I zoned out most of the class, he seemed like a good guy to me.

To those of you speaking as though you know what happened, kindly stfu. Not everyone in LA is the racist person you are.

Remember one thing, this was a tragedy. People died. The color of their skin isn't relevant. Two people, with families, friends, and loved ones are no longer on this earth.

Hopefully, those responsible are caught, and thankfully Louisiana has the death penalty.

I agree with #87. It's horrible to be racist. But, it's even more egregious of some posters to:

constantly accuse others of being racist, while
demonstrating the worst type of bigoted thinking oneself

So, everyone's a racist except for you? Especially those horrible black and white folks? You know, those ones that you *know* are ignorant racists? The ones who hate Indians and are out to get you?

And who are the spades you would wish to have called spades, O great Spadeville? Come on: Say what you have to say. Have the courage to express yourself, or if all you have to say is dim innuendo, go away.

I don't understand why desi's are so quick to say every crime is committed by blacks or have a hidden grudge against them. None of them have any first hand experiences. Right?? Lulz!!:-)

I am glad the wife was not home when this happened. Who knows what would have happened to her.

Priya, Chetna, Amrita etc
Since all three mentioned the plight of the pregnant wife without mentioning the victims. Just thinking what you would have said if the victims were women.

A tragedy is blogged and immediately all the vermin emerges? My esteem of the human race is at a new low.

My condolences to the families. Why are campus buildings situated right next to the worst neighbourhoods in town?

Why are campus buildings situated right next to the worst neighbourhoods in town?

Huge urban campuses in America (not campus towns, even there, New Haven has shady neighborhood next to campus) grow over 100s of years in all directions as vast sprawls (almost cities within cities), it is no wonder that they will in some parts touch poor and violent neighborhoods.

Why are campus buildings situated right next to the worst neighbourhoods in town?

But...isn't it cheaper to locate campus buildings in the suburbs? I know it's further away, and that's what makes it cheaper. But it's also safer. And doesn't the student housing council own places in the centre as well? I guess the situation in my country is completely different though. Here the council owns a lot of extremely beautiful historical houses in the centre. Unfortunately, at the time of my application I could not get into those, as they are dominated by frat students. Now I probably could but it's too much of a hassle to move. I've got the best view of my city anyway.

Shouldn't student safety be a priority of the university/housing council though? In my town the complexes are not located in the 'worst' neighbourhood, I don't know about other cities, but I think the same is true there.

Why are campus buildings situated right next to the worst neighbourhoods in town? Becaue grad students in Amreeka are poor and the univ , probably because they are forced to by law, "helps" by arranging for "affordable" accomodation. And we all know what "affordable" housing implies. Meanwhile, happy smiling undergrads are probably getting new lacrosse uniforms designed by Prada.

Suffer the grad students, they are the indentured cane cutters of the 21st century. Most of the white undergrads at the elite school I went to were on work study and are heavily in debt. The Ivys are not stocked by Exeter or Andover contrary to what you may think. Are the undergrads at a state school like LSU living a charmed life, drinking mint juleps while ther desi T.A.s dodge bullets ?

Something terrible has happened and there is not much info, so it seems like people are trying to fill the vacuum

But...isn't it cheaper to locate campus buildings in the suburbs?

There were no suburbs in the US until cars were developed, most unis predate this invention. So why not farmland ? I am not sure of the relative economic costs back then, but something like 50% of the US pop would have been engaged in agriculture back then. Secondly, you need critical mass of population to attract intellectual types. Getting young profs out to Stanford 120 years ago when the SF Bay Area was a cultural back water was no easy task

Oy, I came to see if there were any important updates on this tragic story in the comments section and got slammed by another horrible, vitriolic SM discussion thread. It's depressing.

Cheers to those of you who tried to stay above the fray and whose hearts were in the right places. For the rest, shame.

Wll, tw ndn stdnts mrdrd n yr wn bckyrd, nd w hv s mny cncrnd. gd kp it p!

Deleted

TML TGR

Suffer the grad students, they are the indentured cane cutters of the 21st century. Most of the white undergrads at the elite school I went to were on work study and are heavily in debt. The Ivys are not stocked by Exeter or Andover contrary to what you may think. Are the undergrads at a state school like LSU living a charmed life, drinking mint juleps while ther desi T.A.s dodge bullets ?

@ 99: I was more excited when I thought you were going to contain your struggle. No such luck, I see.

tamil tiger--why do you keep ignoring everyone's comments? if it's important to you, then start your own blog. Or email/call CNN/NY times/your news media of choice asking them to cover the story. your repeating is reminiscent of children whining when they don't get what they want. there are plenty of other more appropriate spaces for you to bring attention to this issue you raise, including the news tab on this site.

@ 99: I was more excited when I thought you were going to contain your struggle. No such luck, I see.

He is doing an admirable job of dragging his namesake groups name through the mud further with his vague threats (abhi of los angeles?! ha) and incoherent babble. The LTTE has enough problems with public perception, they don't need imbeciles appropriating their name to lash out on a public forum.

Dr Sp Mutny ( pro skh, pro chrstn, Pro Hnd, Pr Jw, Pr mslm, pr mrcn, Pr ndn, pr hmnty, pr blgsphr, pr pr pr ) & pr pr

Deleted

Dear Sepia Mutiny ( pro sikh, pro christian ),

Since you don't seem to understand anything politely-phrased here's a very blunt tip, "tamil tiger".

Maybe if you stop with the stupid, inaccurate statements (pro sikh pro christian), this forum will be more likely to listen to you. If you want this blog's help, don't insult them. When they logically don't help you after you're an ass to them, don't act like they're oppressing you, when if anything, YOU are persecuting them with your threats and spam.

Your tactics give you something in common with the Malaysian Government-- chew on that...and hopefully, choke.

Tamil Tiger 2 @ 105:

This particular post and the related discussion surrounds the tragic news event. Please take your issue to the news tab or elsewhere. Would you show up at a funeral spouting rhetoric concerning an unrelated event? It is not that Sepia Mutiny won't necessarily cover what you are talking about, it is that you continue to bring it up in the wrong forum and ignore the productive advice of others.

Tamil Tiger:

cyber warfare is a weapon in the struggle of ethnic nationalism.

Sure, but is masturbation ?

listen TT, you are coming across as a juvenile delinquent. by threadbombing you risk drying up support for your cause.

this forum is not necessarily an information dissemination center the way you intend it. the bulk of audience who frequent this, if they are potential sympathizers, are already aware of the tamil situation in malaysia. in order to grow the bandwidth for your cause, you are best to cultivate a more diverse audience. more into that later, but seriously guy, this kind of haranguing shows you up as an illiterate, intemperate, venal boor - and that just does not go across very well.

i have done this some time back in canada and am proud to say it worked.

a. Blogspot has a standard template wherein you can channel newsfeeds and video from youtube directly to your blog. Use key words like "malaysia tamil", "malaysia race preference", "bumiputra ..." etc. to funnel media content to your blog.

b. I would recommend you draft standard letters clearly articulating the tamil cause for directing to a. newspaper editors, b. npo's like AI c. foreign ministers. Try to be objective, and do not try to "shame" people into following your recommendation.

c. Surf the net to find the email addresses of your target audience. Or create a blog post that requests the indian diaspora to submit the email addresses for their local newspapers (eg lettertoed@thestar.ca for the toronto Star), their MP's etc.

d. Create a blog post asking the readers to submit the stock letter to the email/snailmail addresses that are provided.

e. submit a request for action to Sepiamutiny, uberdesi, ultrabrown, chapatimystery, pickledpolitics etc. who are genuinely sympathetic to your cause. it makes sense to engage them then, because that is what they do best, channel the diaspora's action in a given direction.

This will take no more than 6 hours of work by my estimate - and a better use of your energy - because frankly you're pissing me off and while i am generally sympathetic to the cause of human rights - if you are representative of the people you are trying to represent, my energies are best used elsewhere.

just to stay on topic, the above strategy is effective in creating action - otherwise the sympathy is wasted. the same applies to the LSU situation and if one needs to create more traction than is currently evident. it's best this is best led by someone close to the situation in multiple ways (a desi LSU alum?) who knows what should be the right outcome to prevent further occurrences of the same.

just my 2 cents.

The LTTE has enough problems with public perception, they don't need imbeciles appropriating their name to lash out on a public forum.

Yes, Tamil Tiger is really dragging the LTTE's name into the mud :)

p.s. As a patent-pending holder of the IPv7 and pending Department of Defence clearance to standadize it, this revolutionary successor of the IPv6, will make it entirley possible to have a distinc i.p. address for every living entity in our solar system... way beyon 2^128.. = 6.5 billio only.. anyway.

Hey, Tamil tiger 2, why don't you strap your humorous comments onto an innocent, abducted, indoctrinated child so you can deliver them with more of a bang?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Amen!

these guys even forgot to pay the registation fee for their own website

That was an April Fool's Joke ... where Sepia Mutiny was turned into Culture Kitsch Bazaar for a day :D

Anyhow...any other official updates on the story? Lots of rumors flying around right now, from the 3 black guys hurrying away from the area to some ex-student settling a score to it was a professional job that might be race-related (though lynching is usually a crime of passion, not one you hire a hit man for)...

Anyway, hopefully the police are on every lead. I hope these people are brought to justice very soon... and we find out WHY such a stupid, senseless thing happened.

Furthermore, I refuse to speculate on the race of the killer(s) .. it doesn't matter anyway. What matters is the motivation... and finding the ppl who did it

Silly question by an Indian- Are temporary residents (students, H1-B holders etc.) allowed to own guns? If yes, can then apply for & get conceal-carry permits?

I am indeed sympathetic to the cause of the Indians in Malaysia. I wish we could do something about it. The issue is not getting the attention it deserves. AND...this isn't the thread for that discussion.

Furthermore, I refuse to speculate on the race of the killer(s) .. it doesn't matter anyway.

Could we please redirect our attention to the actual post/thread/topic?

Further comments addressing or engaging Tamil Tiger/Malaysia will be deleted. As many have said, this is not the appropriate place for that.

A final reminder-- we request that you use one handle per thread, as a courtesy to those reading you. Those of you who are newer may not be aware that we consider it a ban-worthy offense.

Furthermore, I refuse to speculate on the race of the killer(s) .. it doesn't matter anyway. why not ? the single biggest assaulters on desis in melbourne are the refugees from Sudan. When I see them I take suitable precautions which include crossing the road and I make no apologies for this. I believe in Sydney it is the Lebs.

What's behind this Melbourne phenomena, poverty or do the refugees have a specific animus towards desis ? Do they mistake us for Janjaweed/Sudanese "Arabs" ? Are these violent muggings or whimsical assaults ? I would have to say that the race of the perps in the LSU case is irrelevant unless it ends up being a hate crime. No motivation has been discovered yet

I do think that there are a lot of universities that need to take on-campus security much more seriously--it seems like a fairly small cost, considering university budgets these days. My impression is that the use of undercover cops is very effective, because then word gets out to stay away from the university if you want to mug people, because even if there isn't an obvious cop present you may get arrested. In some sense, of course, such a policy could be criticized for merely displacing crime off-campus (or at least beyond where the university cops patrol), but that's kind of why universities have their own police-forces in the first place, no--i.e., to make the campus "extra" safe. And, the neighborhoods that the crime is displaced to at least tend to have voting residents, unlike campuses, where most residents don't vote in the municipal elections.

Here's an interesting look at some of these issues, including why private security forces (which would, broadly speaking, include campus police, even at "public" universities) tend to go in more for undercover work than city cops (the key factor is the latter are more interested in prosecutions, the former in prevention).

I doubt many college campuses with their leftist political tilts will take too kindly towards having under cover security officers "snooping" around, regardless of how altruistic their motives are. Just my feeling after having spent enough years on various US campuses. Anyway I doubt this present case would have been helped by that. There seems little chance that a targeted crime of this nature can be prevented by campus police as if occurred off campus, inside an residence.

What's behind this Melbourne phenomena, poverty or do the refugees have a specific animus towards desis ? Do they mistake us for Janjaweed/Sudanese "Arabs" ? Are these violent muggings or whimsical assaults ?

behind this Melbourne phenomena, poverty

coming back to the topic at hand - will the LSU shootings have an impact on the number of DBD students who come to LSU.

Melbourne Desi asked:

will the LSU shootings have an impact on the number of DBD students who come to LSU.

...just as I was reading this:

This time round, ’Keefe and LSU have reasons for serious worry. Nearly 23 per cent international students enrolled at LSU are Indians. They form “the largest group of international students from a single country at LSU this fall”, the university acknowledged in a media advisory yesterday.

Bad publicity surrounding the murders could deter foreign students — who are an important source of income for LSU — from applying there in future. That view gained credence yesterday when an Indian doctoral student, Sachin Chintawar, told the Baton Rouge media that he was “totally shocked” and felt unsafe on the campus. [link]

There seems little chance that a targeted crime of this nature can be prevented by campus police as if occurred off campus, inside an residence.

Yes, if it was targeted (which the few facts we know seem to support), it's much more difficult to prevent. It was on-campus, though.

From Calcutta Telegraph article linked to in #123:

"authorities yesterday belatedly moved in to ensure visible vigilance at the Edward Gay Apartments" (emphasis added)

This is the wrong direction--they need to announce that the campus will be patrolled now by both regular and plainclothes cops--the latter have a much bigger impact on keeping crime out. Harvard did this with, e.g., "Operation Student Shield" so I don't buy the point raised in #120 that PC concerns are all that important--this is a crisis (the murders, of course, but also all the follow-on attention to a generally unsafe campus atmosphere) for LSU and needs to be addressed accordingly.

Yes, if it was targeted (which the few facts we know seem to support), it's much more difficult to prevent. It was on-campus, though.

I was under the impression the Edward Gay apartments are near campus but not actually in the campus.Maybe they are still covered by the university jurisdiction. University security has been notoriously lax on most campuses for decades. In the 70s, the serial killer Ted Bundy broke into a Florida university sorority house and murdered two women, injuring a number of others. All this while he was a known fugitive. Given Louisiana's historically corrupt police force and inept university administration (gems like "provided an opportunity for the university to test its new emergency text-message system" are a good indication of their idiocy) I am not too hopeful that anything will change. Unless somebody who personally knows the killers gives the police a lead, it seems there are no real clues. Maybe the FBI will bring better skills to bear on the case.

it seems there are no real clues

Well, they're probably not reporting the "real" clues! Let's hope so, at least!

will the LSU shootings have an impact on the number of DBD students who come to LSU.

Yes, for many reasons.

1) Graduate schools in American Universities upwards of 50% are international. Word spreads fast, and the impact is immediate. Indian students apply through word of mouth, and I am sure potential applicants to LSU in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai know about the tragedy.

2) Even undergrad application suffers. A campus seen dangerous has very profound effect - sometimes, even places like Columbia University, and U. Chicago.

3) LSU in two weeks is play BCS National Championship, and last thing it wants is a tragedy (bad news) hovering around.

4) I have been to these apartments @ LSU in past many times, these ones sit on the periphery of campus, not much could have been done, except gating, and electronic security entrance. That would have been a deterrent. Parts of LSU (and many other campuses) touch very shady neighborhoods (that area has the highest crime rate in Baton Rouge. I have been on those streets, 100 meters off the apartment complex where this tragedy happened, they look like scenes from Mad Max movies**), and it is not realistic the comb the whole area with the size of campuses in America with under-cover cops.

Such high-risk areas have slightly lower rents, and international students with limited funds tend to live there on many campuses on America. A lot of my friends lived in these complexes @ LSU and other places, and with limited funds as international students, one tends to look safety of the area the other way or often they have limited choices due to their budget constraints.

5) The apartment complex in news was LSU owned, but they are private own ones too five steps away in the same area, and they are more vulnerable. Sure, somebody, said why can't students live in suburbs, sure you can, some do, if you can afford it. It is all economics. The ones who afford buy houses, and condos, and what not. In most American Universities, good majority of students (upper classmen in undergraduate, and especially graduate students) live off campus.

6) Both at Cornell and LSU, I never lived close to the campus - because peripheries of campuses tend to have ghettoisation.

The only thing that can be done is awareness.......a new student should know that one should not cut corners (if they can) with the area they choose to live. I know this is easier said than done.

** What can campus police do if the criminals originate from off campus, and spill over to on-campus in an instant. For that matter, some parts of American landscape are out of bounds of city police...they fear their own life in those areas.

As a Baton Rouge desi resident, this is extremely disappointing and frightening. I went to high school less than a mile away from the shootings and the area has a lot of Indian students living in the apartments. The only thing good thing I see is the coming together of Louisiana's South Asian community, not just Indians. I'm also a college student and after coming home from my first semester in college, this is what I see...I'm really worried at this point...I live pretty close to LSU and many of my friends go to LSU.

As for race, I doubt it's a huge factor. IF this was supposed to be a Black/Indian thing, it would have happened long ago and possibly at a the historically black university (southern)...

Hopefully LSU and Baton Rouge will be able to recover from this tragic loss

From the Harvard Crimson:

But at Boston College (BC) housing, where the system has already been running for a number of years, it has been criticized as unnecessary police interference. “Operation Student Shield (OSS) has a bad name,” said Benjamin Knappmiller, Director of Political Action for the Undergraduate Government of BC.But he explained that the BPD was trying to remedy this by working more closely with students.“The general feeling from BC is that...we understand we’re part of a community but we shouldn’t be singled out. As long as it doesn’t become Big Brother-ish and our privacy rights aren’t taken advantage of I think everyone would admit it’s a good [program] http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506796

OSS seems to have mixed reviews at best.

Kush,
I'm with you the problems for international students--simply put, universities shouldn't be foisting them off into dangerous accommodations, which is what they

are

Well, they're probably not reporting the "real" clues! Let's hope so, at least!

I agree.

doing if they're not giving grad students enough in stipends to live anywhere else. But I think you underestimate the effective deterrent value of a few undercover cops--once word gets out that they're there (most) criminals will move on--the key is the university should not in effect be presenting its students as easy targets.

Majority of LSU students, and Baton Rouge natives stay away from these areas - Why? They can afford. I can bet majority of LSU students until few days ago even knew they were LSU owned apartments in those areas.

You can be at LSU for many years, and never step in those parts of the town, except to buy beer kegs or pawn your ex-boyfriend's engagement ring.

But international students with limited finances have to force themselves to live at these places. Even international students come in all shapes and sizes - sons of Mittals, with high paying assistantships, sometimes even with prestigious fellowships, but then some with teaching assistantships, and a lot of them do 20 hour odd jobs on/ off campus. The last category ones have to really struggle hard with jobs and finances.

I had friends who lived in those apartments (the ones in the news above) - trust, they were not that cheap, only slightly cheaper than other options.

I seriously hope LSU now takes a harder look at their "affordable" on-campus family housing, since hardly any American lived there, and therefore, these places never got their attention.

why not ? the single biggest assaulters on desis in melbourne are the refugees from Sudan. When I see them I take suitable precautions which include crossing the road and I make no apologies for this. I believe in Sydney it is the Lebs.

yeah I can confirm, you are spot on for Sydney.

As a former resident of Nicholson Apartments (the other married/graduate student complex), I can answer a few questions that have been raised on here since I have had a number of dealings with administrators and police department officials regarding security at these two locations.

1) To clear up any misconception, Edward Gay Apartments are a part of the campus and are LSU owned. The Chancellor intentionally spinned this story to the media to make it sound as though the apartments were not even on LSU property, referring to them as "on the edge of campus". By doing so, he was obviously trying to make this sound like it was a Baton Rouge Police thing and not the fault of the University.

2) When these apartments were built, actually Nicholson too, the areas that they were built in were known to be low-income and crime-infested areas. Chancellor O'Keefe does not even understand the history of this area, as made obvious by his referral to the area as the "Gay Apartments" during his press conference. No one on this campus refers to those apartments as such. Everyone knows them as either Ed Gay or Edward Gay. It just goes to show how out of touch this man is in relation to the campus.

3) The administration of this University has known for years about the problems with security in these areas. Armed robberies, car thefts, attempted break-ins, bicycle thefts, and the list goes on. I can attest for a number of people who have either e-mailed or gone in to speak person to person with administrators of both the apartments and/or the police asking for increased patrols in these areas. The most we would ever see was an increase for about a week, than back to the same old-same old lack of patrolling. If you ride by either Nicholson or Ed Gay today, you will see uniformed police officers literally standing there guarding the areas. It took the death of two students to get some type of action. The only problem is that after the initial shock of this incident disappears, so to will the police department. They will be back to their normal routine of patrolling the areas once a week or so. If I've noticed this in the past, don't you think criminally minded people see this as well? They know which areas are vulnerable to their criminal activities.

4) The only reason why the text messaging system was even discussed was because of the incident which happened at Virginia Tech last April. The University rushed to implement this system to make it look like they were being proactive, yet along the way someone forgot that you have to test things first to make sure that they work. The wording used in the e-mail was very offensive to me, and I'm a white American male. A murder should never be considered an "opportunity".

5) I wholeheartedly agree that the University needs to make some efforts to rebuild and relocate these facilities. The southside of campus has plenty of available land that could be used for building adequate housing for family/graduate student housing, and it would also be in a safe location of the campus, as opposed to having our students in a vulnerable location.

6) I would encourage everyone from this site to send a letter to the Chancellor and/or Governor Bobby Jindal encouraging the exploration of better living conditions for graduate students. It's sad that some of our brightest inviduals are made to live in such a bad area because they lack the funding to live in the "upper-class" areas of campus like the rich people do. When the masses are put into motion, the wheels of government tend to start turning a little bit better.

My heartfelt condolences go out to the family members and friends of the victims. I hope that the men behind this heinous crime are given a punishment to fit their crime (which is a possibility thanks to the existence of the death penalty in the state of Louisiana).

Here are the addresses for O'Keefe and Governor Jindal:

Chancellor Sean O'Keefe
Office of the Chancellor
156 Thomas Boyd Hall
Baton Rouge, LA 70803

Governor-Elect Bobby Jindal
c/o Governor's Transition Team
Kirby-Smith Hall/LSU Campus
Baton Rouge, LA 70810

Sketches of suspects released.

The suspects are black, who would have known? It is likely, these desi students in their extreme kanjusi (miser behaviour) must have taken some housing in a low cost high crime black neighbourhood and payed the price.

It is likely, these desi students in their extreme kanjusi (miser behaviour) must have taken some housing in a low cost high crime black neighbourhood and payed the price.

are you going out of your way to be offensive? alternatively, if this is a thread you chose to diplay trollish behavior, nice work.

you have no personal knowledge of the financial situation of these two people, who were, more likely than not, two grad students stretching their stipends (especially the one whose wife's was expecting a child) and trying not to impose on folks back home. and it seems like married grad students only had two housing options on campus, and living off-campus was not the best idea either. commuting in the area seems to be difficult because of the bare-bones public transportation system.

also: is it purely a coincidence that low-income areas just have shoddy law enforcement? tough luck for people who can't afford suburban safety, they will "pay the price" (many times over, unfortunately) for their poverty. is that what you're saying?

baramati hostel: Take your outrageous, racist trolling elsewhere. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is a thread to mourn two murder victims and you disrespect it and them by vomiting your stupidity here as if it's some act of bravery against the PC-warriors? Please. You have been banned.

FYI, LSU Foundation has established a support fund for the deceased. Details can be found at http://www.lsufoundation.org/

I am tired of people like shallowthinker who believe indian americans owe american blacks a debt. The 1965 immigration act was passed because of American catholics and jews. The 1965 immigration act was proposed by Emmanuel Celler and supported by Senator Ted Kennedy. Second indian americans are in the US because the country needed the skills of indian americans. A discussion on the widespread prevalence of black crime in America is necessary to take steps to prevent it.

A discussion on the widespread prevalence of black crime in America is necessary to take steps to prevent it.

Is it necessary on what is essentially a memorial thread, where the two victims should be the focus, instead of their murderers?

Can these racist assholes from India explain to us why India is not violence free considering they have no black residents. If you look at rediff reader comments on this news item, it boggles the mind the kind of vermin that immigrate over here.

The case is also about justice. The newsmedia will stop covering the story because it does not fit the white man as oppressor liberal morality tale. The asian american civil rights organizations will ignore the case because they represent the interests of upper class and upper middle class asian americans. For them discrimination in the corporate boardroom is a greater concern than the plight of asian american shopkeepers and asian american cabdrivers. Which civil rights organizations speak for the middle class and working class asian americans for whom black underclass crime is a greater threat than white racism?

Vince, what a joke. Blacks are more frequently victims of black crime than Indians are. If blacks did this crime, it has nothing to do with a hate agenda on Indians. It is a simple crime thing that went bad. Why the hell should race based organization spend resources on something the city should be worrying about? The only reason for them to step in is if the cops are not paying enough attention to the case because the victims are foreigners who do not have many local connections.

I feel sorry for the people that died,but the racism in this thread is turning me off. That is why I find it hard listen when you talk about racism and stereotypes directed at you,from the looks of things you give as good as you get. This not directed at all the folks on the board just some. Again I am glad they caught the criminals.

So as not to be elitist let's also remember Pravinkumar Chimanbha Patel and Dashrath Patel who were murdered Dec 7 at their gas station in rural Florida. And HMF their murderer was not a "redneck", KKK member or gated community White racist Republican guy. Sorry to disappoint you.

Their killer Leon Davis, Jr has been captured. He's also charged with setting on fire two Latino women he robbed, killing one and killing the unborn baby of the other.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=51532

Again I am glad they caught the criminals.

They caught them?

My bad I thought they did.

I feel sorry for the people that died,but the racism in this thread is turning me off. That is why I find it hard listen when you talk about racism and stereotypes directed at you,from the looks of things you give as good as you get. This not directed at all the folks on the board just some.

Amen. But it's in tragic cases like this that the ugliness reveals itself. Better that it's in plain view and on the record. The psychological legacy of oppression maintains itself long after the specific political and economic relations of oppression have disappeared. Behold the results! Divided and conquered, capable of the most acrobatic acts of compartmentalization, and drenched in anxiety.

Peace to the deceased, their families, the ancestors. Liberation awaits.

Forget about the race of the killers. I don't care about that.

But consider this: When I searched "LSU murders" on Google News when this was still just days old, there were over a thousand news items. A lot of them were from the Indian press. But some European and international papers also carried. BBC world had it as their main article for some time. Contrast this with the coverage in the US. Minimal. Of the small number of articles, some focused on the failure of the text alert system. Apart from brief articles in a couple of local news sources and a brief report in the NYT, there was nothing! This, I think, has a lot to do with the identity of the victims. They were, in some way, "not like us". I can think of two things:

1. They were Indians and not Americans.
2. They were graduate students - adults living their own lives. So parents of college kids didn't feel quite the same "If this happened to those kids, this could happen to our kids" feeling.

For one of these reasons, most people here did not relate to the incident and were not shocked.

Forget about the race of the killers. I don't care about that.

But if the killers were White you would care and so would the American media and that's the point. America LOOOOUUUUVES it's White Devils, especially it's Southern variety. If the killers had been White the media would have picked up the story as a "hate crime" and they would be off and running. See the Duke rape hoax case!!

Most crimes in which the victims are of the White American "mainstream" get little or no attention. The fact that a few cases get relentless attention creates the illusion of greater attention to White victims.

But the other issue relates to my earlier post. Why do people on this site give greater attention to this case than the case I refered to above? Class bias? Do the people on this site better identify with college graduate students than gas station workers on the night shift?

This, I think, has a lot to do with the identity of the victims. They were, in some way, "not like us".

Kevin ji, aap galat samajh rahe hain.

Last post is Dec 24, 2007. Have the students been forgotten?

WHERE IS INDIAN COMMUNITY OUTRAGE?? Without civil action or community service, the indian voice will never be heard. You must stand up for your fellow man. You can not expect others to do it for you.

Where are the Indian Student Associations?? They should be forming teams with ISA all over LA. (& the nation for that matter) to demand better security on college campuses for ALL students. Gov-elect Jindal should be held accountable for not demanding LSU step up security measures as promised.

There is much you can do. I am not indian, but I am ashamed that the govt & the campus officials have done so little. I am also stunned that the indian community just let this slide without doing enough. Perhaps that is why nothing is being done by officials.

It's not enough to feel deeply sorry. You must do something.

You make yourselves easy targets by remaining quiet. BE HEARD!!

Your rebuke of us apathetic injuns may not be as productive as you think it would be, but I guess it indicates your...extreme feelings about this tragedy. I do hope that you continue to visit other "Indian" blogs and leave the same comment, since SM is but a tiny sliver of the global community and if you feel this strongly, it would behoove you to foment protest every-brown-where.