December 17, 2007
Daughter of Slave-holding L.I. Couple Screams, "How could this happen to us in america?"News
Back in May, I wrote a post about the Muttontown/Long Island couple who were accused of treating their Indonesian maids like “modern-day slaves”. It is time for an update (thanks, various tipsters):
A jury on Monday convicted a millionaire couple of enslaving two Indonesian women they brought to their mansion to work as housekeepers.
Mahender Murlidhar Sabhnani, 51, and his wife, Varsha Mahender Sabhnani, 45, were each convicted of all charges in a 12-count federal indictment that included forced labor, conspiracy, involuntary servitude, and harboring aliens. [MSNBC]
In addition to grueling 18-hour days, Samirah and Enung were “fortunate enough” to receive discipline and opportunities like those detailed below:
Allegations of abuse included beatings with brooms and umbrellas, slashings with knives, being made to repeatedly climb stairs and take freezing-cold showers as punishment for misdeeds that included sleeping late or stealing food from trash bins because they were poorly fed.
Samirah, the woman who fled the house in May, said she was forced to eat dozens of chili peppers and then was forced to eat her own vomit when she failed to digest the peppers, prosecutors said… [MSNBC]
This next bit is clearly a misinterpretation of actual events; I’m sure that Mrs. Sabhnani was merely trying to assist with hair removal. That’s quite thoughtful of her!
Enung testified that Samirah’s nude body once was covered in plastic wrapping tape on orders from Varsha Sabhnani, who then instructed Enung to rip it off. “When I pulled it off, she was screaming,” the housekeeper said through an interpreter before breaking down in tears on the witness stand. [MSNBC]
These disposable women should have been grateful that they were allowed to come to America, so that they could live in a mansion— and be stashed in a 3’x3’ space whenever visitors came, lest they embarrass their generous employers with their bruises and scars. If they hadn’t been so gluttonous as to sift through the trash for scraps, then they wouldn’t have been punished. Makes perfect sense…if you’re EVIL. But wait! There’s MORE!
The Sabhnanis’ defense attorneys contended the two women concocted the story of abuse as a way of escaping the house for more lucrative opportunities. [CNN]
You know, when I’m on the prowl for more lucrative opportunities, I always make sure that I rush in to a Dunkin’ Donuts with naught but a towel for a shirt and then fake abuse while pleading for help. Works every time.
They argued the housekeepers practiced witchcraft and may have abused themselves as part of an Indonesian self-mutilation ritual. They also said the couple went on frequent vacations that would have given the two women ample opportunity to flee. [MSNBC]
Obviously they didn’t practice witch stuff enough! I mean, if you don’t have the power to ingest 25 chili peppers like it ain’t no thang, well, you’re an embarrassment to your kind. Actually, it’s a good thing these witches were terrible at their craft; imagine what manner of wicked mischief they might have inflicted on their poor, persecuted, millionaire employers, had they had the time or energy provided by scraps of food from the garbage, to work on such things.
I didn’t think I could loathe these people more, but after reading that “strategy” put forth by their lawyers, I think I might. Then again, perhaps it’s heartless of us to blame this couple, when their greedy witch-employees just wanted to have some traditional, self-mutilatin’ fun? The Sabhnanis are the real victims here. I mean, look at this:
Varsha Sabhnani, 45, and one of her daughters collapsed in disbelief as the damning verdict was read - and were taken to a hospital for treatment. [NYDailyNews]
Maybe histrionics are like cooties? Contagious?
Defense attorney Jeffrey Hoffman said he would appeal. “Apparently, the jury was taken by the histrionics …” of the Indonesian women, he said. [CNN]
Here’s the best quote ever:
“We never did anything to anybody,” the Sabhnanis’ daughter Tina screamed. “How could this happen to us in America?” [NYDailyNews]
Yes, Tina. How COULD this happen, not just in America, but in your own home?
anna on December 17, 2007 05:01 PM in News · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Did the Sabhnani's pick up this habit in Saudi? ;-)
"How could this happen to us in America?"
How could it? Hmm, I wonder...
The witchcraft excuse was hilarious and pathetic.
I've seen many a Desi abuse their servants/workers back on the subcontinent, including my own relatives, and I always try to step in and argue against it, but it seems that for some people, such abusive behavior is strongly ingrained... When I'm gone, I know things go right back to the way they were. I know in India, at least, the servant/homeowner relationship can have some positive potential, but I really wish people everywhere would stop with this nonsense.
Anna, thanks for the update. It's clear that some unforgivable level of abuse went on, and other civil/criminal offenses were committed, including visa violations (the women had originally come as B-1 business visitors).
However, parts of the abuse allegations seemed a bit over the top even back then, and still seem that way - e.g. being forced to eat chili peppers and then your own vomit? It may be worth noting, just in general, that convictions do not mean that all aspects of the plaintiff's testimony has been established. Or in this case, was it? If it was, then the whole thing plumbs new depths in the '(wo)man's inhumanity to (wo)man' category, in my mind.
You know this would never happen in India.
Not the slavery of the housekeeper part, but the conviction of the houseowner part.
This article from Newsday has more details of the drama in the courtroom as well as a photo gallery.
Chachaji, I remember your comments on the original thread and how they were a sensible plea for caution/giving the defendants the benefit of our doubt. :) I'm glad we have voices like yours, so calm amid the affray. Though it is partially my naive faith in our system of justice that "guilty on all counts" to me generally means guilty, I think a lot of it has to do with my cynicism, too. We humans are capable of horrific cruelty and we're able to rationalize it all away, quite easily.
FWIW, I know of a desi parent who forced their kid to eat dinner after a tantrum, and then when their child threw up...they ordered them to...well, you know. I'm thinking that's why that bit wasn't so over-the-top, to me.
I was beginning to wonder where the coverage on this story was!
It is baffling that how every post is an opportunity for some commentars to take the focus away from the original intent and make it an India versus not India pissing match. These are the same people that will come back and accuse the moderators of not doing their job. Rishi and Akshay honestly do any of your comments further the discussion in any way?
She's not the only one thinking that.
chachaji @ 3:
While I totally agree that skepticism is important at all times (thank you for bringing it up), I'm not sure just how exaggerated the claims of abuse are in this case. I've heard stories of surprisingly parallel circumstances (including, but not restricted to desis) across NYC, at least. While one part of me would hate to assume such inhumane treatment, I can't help but lean towards that view.
Anna, wasn't that last part all out of love? ;). Been there done that!
However, parts of the abuse allegations seemed a bit over the top even back then, and still seem that way - e.g. being forced to eat chili peppers and then your own vomit?
On the other hand, the stories are so improbable (and so specific) that they might well be true. If you're lying, you don't make up something so foul, no one's even heard of it.
Did the Sabhnani's pick up this habit in Saudi? ;-)
maybe this wasn't the most pc statement but sure was funny.
The court has made a decision, but even before they did it was something that most of us accepted as credible based on the way many Indians treat their servants back in the desh. These folks seem to have broken new ground in creative cruelty. I was going to say I was surprised that they would do such a thing in this country, but the Reddy case was similar. Let's call it "Zamindar Syndrome"
Sadly this is not new. There have been numerous cases involving Arabs who hired domestic servants and treated them like they would back in their home countries.
Not to be misunderstood, I'm not questioning the convictions at all - just pointing out that, even when a conviction is returned based on evidence, it does not mean that everything a witness or the plaintiff said during the trial is retrospectively assumed to have been established as 100% true. Then again, occassionally, trials get into the details of the testimony itself, and the complete veracity or degree of partial veracity thereof is also established. So that was all I was asking. I'm not a lawyer!
Anna - "Though it is partially my naive faith in our system of justice that "guilty on all counts" to me generally means guilty,.."
To date, One hundred and twenty six (126) Americans facing the death sentence, who were found "guilty on all counts" by our system of justice, have been exonerated due to DNA evidence.
Possibly hundreds of innocent human beings must have been murdered by our so called system of justice. Not to mention the criminally disproportionate incarceration of people of color by our so called system of justice.
I looked around, and it looks like the wife is the one who administered all the abuse. Kinda makes you wonder what it is/was about her life that caused her to act out on her maids like she did. Whatever it was it sounds like she's a bit of a sadist.
How embarrassing for their lawyers to have to argue these weak defenses.
They deserve at least 20 years behind bars.
Are the housekeepers filing a civil suit too? They ought to be awarded millions.
Axis: I am aware, which is why I readily admitted that I am naive and qualified my statement with "generally". I thought the majority of the time, we do get it right. I'm not trying to contradict or dismiss what you've raised; I don't know enough to speak beyond the broad statements I've already made.
I also don't want to sidetrack this discussion or get in a debate with you. If you'd like, I'll delete my comment. Though I know you are a valid commenter who is trying to make a point, those with less pure motives would love to have a field day with any mistake I make.
Anna - You are right, I should have read your comment more carefully. Thanks.
Even though mistreatment of servants is routine in India, some of the actions of the defendants here were rather sadistic and would be uncommon in urban India. Working for the defendant's family was probably like working for your average monstrous Pakistani Zamidar (landlord)
Even though both the defendants were naturalized citizens, there of course is no excuse for carrying over such barbarism to the United States and a 5-6 year jail sentence would be appropriate. I think in the sentencing stage, the fact that both the defendants were immigrants might work in their favor and they will receive a lower sentence than your average American would receive.
The daughter is crying now. You aint seen nothing biyatch! The servants are now going to go gang busters in the civil lawsuit against the family. Expect a judgment of over 10 million dollars in the Civil Lawsuit. Good luck with protecting your assets (not!)
No, Axis Mundi. Thank you for being so nice (great handle, btw). :)
Well, she's right in one way: America was founded on slavery ...
I read that the house might be taken by the govt too, because it's a federal crime or something. I bet they never thought they'd lose it all b/c they mistreated their maids. I wonder how many cases like this exist in America that we haven't heard about?
I can't think what exactly the defense lawyer thinks he might gain by appealing. Other than income I mean. As a public service, I would like to help him by making a list of defenses he might use:
* Your Honor, my clients were clearly concerned for the health and well-being of the maids. It is well known that chili peppers reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease.
* Your Honor, the plastic wrapping incident is just a dreadful misunderstanding. My clients were helping the maids acclimatize to the US by acting out scenes from Twin Peaks. Don't we all remember how funny Twin Peaks was? Ha ha!
* Your Honor, the plaintiffs are clearly histrionically talented, witchcraft-practising, self-mutilating aliens. Would you take their word against that of my client Ms Varsha Sabhnani, a decent hard-working American, just because my client looks like she is thinking up new ways to molest lobsters?
* Your Honor, while the counsel for the prosecution is of the opinion that my previous argument was an ad hominem red herring attack, I point out that it was in fact an ad feminem red lobster defense.
* Your Honor, this is Chewbacca.
Its kinda surprising that many commentators r giving example of Saudi Arab to somehow weaken the severity of the issue here. So this is what it would come to? To compare USA and India to Saudi Arab? Disgusting, guys !
The defense could also argue that the employees had given consent to some of the mistreatment as they had different expectations of an employer than an American employee would hold. But these arguments will only make sense in the sentencing stage. Bringing up these arguments (I am presuming the defense did not raise them) in front of an all American jury would have only inflamed the jury.
To compare USA and India to Saudi Arab? Disgusting, guys !
Comparing Saudi Arabia to India is not that disgusting. There are a lot of Indians who would do anything to go to Saudi Arabia and live the Saudi dream of petro-dollars if not necessarily liberty. Not many Saudis of course would immigrate to India to enjoy its freedoms.
So when is the Lifetime Movie of the Week coming out on this story?
What a scary family.
Don't know, but a Law & Order: Criminal Intent episode must be in development even as we speak.
I am reminded of Cruella de Vil every time I read this story.I wonder what the equation between the couple was. Won't be surprised if they were personally into S&M.
If guilty, they should be incorporated in the http://www.aboutbritain.com/EdinburghDungeon.htm
The Sabhnobody's are a disgrace to humanity.
This is scary. Mrs. Sabhnani just sounds like a psychopath, honestly - while servants are often looked down on and mistreated in India, the kind of abuse these two Indonesian went through is just something else, absolutely sadistic torture. I'm surprised the Sabhnanis' lawyer didn't try a 'mentally unstable' defense, it sure sounds like Mrs. Sabhnani is crazy. I mean, just, wtf. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around it. I'm glad the American justice system works in this case, but I can't help but feel a little bad for the kids- they have four kids right? I wonder if they partook of the abuse or if they were repulsed by it and felt helpless to say or do anything since it is their mother (it doesn't seem like the father did as much) after all. While 'How could this happen to us?' is a stupid thing to say, their parents are going to jail, the kids must be feeling a lot of conflict. I would be ashamed if anything like this were to happen in my family, but I would also find it difficult to entirely condemn my relatives/people I know. It's difficult to deal with that sometimes.
What's going to happen to the two Indonesian women now?
Yes, very ture. There was this case of Kuwaiti diplomats who abused their Indian servants and nothing was done because they had some kind of diplomatic immunity. The NPR story is here. In fact the State dept. has protested with many foreign embassy officials for abusing their servants.
I'm celebrating, pass the champagne. The bad guys got what they desereved, and it will be a shot across the bow next time some crazy rich Indian tries to do something they shouldn't even be allowed to do back in the old country.
And I hope the daughters of the parents read this website. They're just a guilty for sitting idly by.
Yes, three daughters and one son. I don't feel bad for them at all. I think one of the daughters took a cameraphone pic of one of the maids sneaking food, to rat her out.
So no. No sympathy.
mrs. sabhnani sure as hell looks like cruella de ville. I wouldnt like to believe the bit about eating vomit, but from what the landscaper said, it looks like they were starving/abusing these women. They should be behind bars for twice the amount of time these women were abused. at least in prison they feed you and even with those prison jobs making license plates, the sabhnanis are sure to make more than $150/month.
About the maids, as they were illegal under immigration laws, are they going to be deported or have they been given some sort of residency? Either way, wherever they choose/are allowed to live, they each deserve a million dollar judgement.
Bet a civil suit is next. Victims get rich. kids lose inheritance. Class postions reversed. Justice in America.
I wonder if Pooja Sabhnani's beloved Cayenne was leased or owned...oh wait! Doesn't matter!
I've seen many a Desi abuse their servants/workers back on the subcontinent, including my own relatives, and I always try to step in and argue against it, but it seems that for some people, such abusive behavior is strongly ingrained... When I'm gone, I know things go right back to the way they were.
there's variation on this. but the way i have seen some of my relatives treat other human beings really makes me wary of the moral affect that having hired "help" has on a human.
Oh yeah, this is from the article linked above:
I guess I'm just trying to imagine what it must be like growing up in this household. The two women were in the household for the past five years, and the youngest was 12 then, so I doubt they grew up feeling that it was 'normal.' So I wonder if they felt conflicted living in that house, and if they ever tried to stop what was going on, or if they grew to rationalize it since it was so wrong and it was their mother doing it.
Considering the three degrees of Sepia-ration I've observed at SM...I can't believe one of YOU doesn't know them. ;)
brown @ 8: I'm not sure if your question was rhetorical, but I feel somewhat obligated to clarify my intent.
"It is baffling that how every post is an opportunity for some commentars to take the focus away from the original intent and make it an India versus not India pissing match."
Though I admit some part of my comment was vague, I do not see how you could read my post in this way (perhaps you've confused me for prema/the other Akshay?). I did not intend to imply any of what you've claimed, and my "how could this happen in America?" was sarcastic. I was merely relating this article to my personal experience with the issue, which I feel is a reasonable part of any discussion. If you read the post I made right after yours, I also mentioned that this problem was not specifically an Indian one in any way, and I have no such bias.
"These are the same people that will come back and accuse the moderators of not doing their job. "
I must admit, I'm disappointed that you've made this generalization about me. I have never made any such accusation nor do I intend to do so in the future, as I enjoy this forum and feel that it is well-moderated.
"Rishi and Akshay honestly do any of your comments further the discussion in any way? "
I don't think the tone of my comment was related to Rishi's, and the style of my comment is one of the more common sorts on this and most any blog. I shared my experience in relation to this issue and to condemned it. I don't see how this is drastically different from anyone else's comments thus far.
Some family friends who live near them vaguely know them, but not well enough for me to find out anything that isn't already in the press.
Varsha Sabhnani sure looks like she's the one who could be doing the witchcraft !
Just imagine the mean-heartedness...you're rich beyond your wildest dreams, living in a mansion, whirlwind lavish life...and you begrudge your poor servants milk and basic food. You get upset by the 'theft' of some MILK. As they say 'laakhon mein khel rahe hain' but so small-hearted and vicious. Disgusting. Not to mention the abuse and torture. Justice seems to have been well-served in this case.
This is absolutely terrible. I hope the Indonesian maids get permanent residency and win a lawsuit against these sadists. From what I've read, this couple has a perfume company and own several perfume labels and had 1.5 million dollars cash in the bank. I hope the maids are able to get several million dollars each.
Poor Little Tina will probably have to move to Lefrak City and go to state college - hahahahaha!
It just occured to me, has the mother been abusing her four children? I don't believe she was a peaceful person and then just started doing these sadistic things when the maid arrived. Who was she tormenting before the Indonesian maids were hired?
If she was torturing the kids then they might have grown up with severe psychological problems and become morally depraved as well. In that case I feel very sorry for the kids.
#22 Al_Chutiya_for_debauchery ....this is the funniest comment EVER!
this is the perfect example of why money isn't everything. some people care so much about becoming rich, but look at how this family lived ...barely living at all. i hope the court has prevented this family from amending their estates and transfering all of their assets to cayman!
reading this news story just raises a bunch of random questions in my mind:
i do wonder what will become of the children. might they also be held accountable for what happened? are they evil like their mother and abusing their own house help?
did the neighbors have any clue this was going on for five years? did they ever act on this knowledge or ask questions?
what will happen to the immigration status of the victims? they arrived here on lawful B-1 visitors visas, that have since expired; and their passports were confiscated by the evil family. will the US allow them to be granted legal permanent residence now for their undue hardship? do they even want to stay in the US?
p.s. for all you non-believers about whether any abuse actually took place, do check out the pictures, then decide (shout out to #5 retorts):
http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzslav1218,0,6927041.story
The might be eligible for a special visa on humanitarian grounds. Something like the newly enforceable U-Visas perhaps?
Yes, how very UnAmerican. Kind of like "prolonged use of stress positions, exposure to heat and cold, sleep deprivation and even waterboarding."
You know, this isn't the first time, nor sadly will it be the last, that we read about something going on like this in America. I think as has been pointed out many times before, the daughter's cry of "how could this happen to us in America!" permeates on several levels: as many here have suggested, this is the kind of thing that, had it happened in Saudi or some other country, we would all just shake our heads and go "tsk tsk" because we "expect" no better. We seem to hold that once someone comes to America, or is born or lives here, they are somewhat "above" those people who live in the developing world when this story just goes to prove that some (fill in proper negative word) people are just who they are regardless of location.
Oh, and Anna if you ever have the urge to run into a Dunkin Donut wearing "naught but a towel for a shirt", please let me know beforehand ;)
I was reading the comments over at the Newsday article, and found some trying to defend the Sabhnanis on the grounds that what they gave the maids was better than what the maids would have got in Indonesia, so the maids should be happy. Leaving the ridiculousness of this argument aside, I was by and large glad that the Newsday commenters were all treating the Sabhnanis as individuals, expressing schadenfreude at their being found guilty, and hoping that they would serve long prison sentences, and not immediately launch into immature bleats for deportation (which I've seen sometimes on Fark).
Well, I was glad, until my mind was blown by this:
Sigh.
oh, i didn't realize acfd hit the civil suit angle first. funny, when i was typing my comment i was thinking about giving him a shoutout, but then i thought "naw, he's more like a tree-hugging bleeding heart lawyer. these women need a bulldog."
but shit, next time i execute an insider trade and then see acfd on the caller id, i'm hitting the highway.
AlCfD @ 29, and
I actually think these maids would have a pretty strong VAWA case if anyone was creative enough to try that angle. Hat tip to subin (@51) on the existent but never issued U-Visa. At any rate, I'm sure that -- even with worse treatment abroad -- there was not an expectation of gross abuse and mistreatment.So now the Americans should realize that Indians can be a real partner in their fight against terrorism. We can torture too!
But seriously, force feeding vomit.. uggh. I just don't get how people can be so sadistic. Any psychologists care to speculate ? The Stanford prison experiment comes to mind but didn't this couple realize that their actions would eventually catch up to them ? Karma anyone?
What makes the US (and much of the western world) a great place to live is the value attached to human rights here -- individual choice, freedom of speech, freedom of religion and well, freedom to live. In third world countries (India and the gulf included) its very easy for the rich and powerful to be above the rest of society and the poor to not even know what they're missing.
ps: In reference to the Saudi comment, the Sabhnanis are lucky not to live there; I imagine the thought of a Saudi eye-for-an-eye legal system isn't very appetizing.
Anyone have any information about this family's perfume business? Just so I can make sure I don't accidently buy any of their products...
also, a few articles on the matter have certainly brought up the economic injustice of allowing those who can afford it house arrest over the option of going to jail. after the conviction, the sabhnanis are back home under house arrest again - but the government is looking to seize the house. no house = no house arrest = jail?
There is an old trope amongst South Indians that "Narth-Indians" are cruel to their servants. Anyone else come across this? Not that this explains anything to do with this case; the Sabhnanis are clearly psychotic, medically speaking. If not, my imagination just boggles...
Wow, what a vicious...I can't think of a profane word which is awful enough to describe "The Mrs".
It could have been MURDER:
Ohhh, good Sepia has moved on from that politician piece. Was I the only one who found that awkward?
God that woman look's guilty. I dont know any facts, but can a person look any more guilty?
I see both sides however. The stories seem so fake that you cant believe that this day in age a person can do that to another person in America. On the other I would never under estimate a Indian.
Well, seeing as they're headed for federal pound-me-in-the-assets prison, the house isn't the only thing they'll have trouble protecting.
From keeping slaves to (hopefully) being kept as some hardened convict's bitch...Fate has a sense of humor.
Speedy
Curious,
I feel bad-- I meant to include that bit of information in the post, but it was a crazy day around the bunker. Now I can't remember the article which had details about the business...but here's something, while I work on retrieving the other:
Considering they convict rape victims in Saudi Arabia, chances are the maids would have received 200 lashes for complaining about their treatment.
Well, seeing as they're headed for federal pound-me-in-the-assets prison, the house isn't the only thing they'll have trouble protecting.
Well, lets not get start wishing for prison rape as punishment. Also they will be going to a Federal Prison where inmates dont usually get raped or abused.
It is in state prisons where the rapes and abuse take place.
Considering they convict rape victims in Saudi Arabia, chances are the maids would have received 200 lashes for complaining about their treatment.
If Saudi employer and foreign 3rd world maid: Lashes for the maid plus deportation
Foreign employer and Saudi maid/employee: Foreign employer gets charged with rape and beheaded.
The link to their fragrances/products/fake Yardley "talc" ---> Royal Mirage
Look around now, before it's yanked!
Some future perfumes names for them:
"Guilty"
"Solitary"
"Cuffed"
"Sentenced"
Ah yes-- this is brilliant. They make "indecent".
Caution: there's a disturbing picture of one of the victims at that link...I can't believe her ear is still attached.
What's really awful is there's still more nastiness to this story, beyond what's being discussed: bribes offered to drop charges, threats to hurt the victims' families/husbands in Indonesia, removing a door from the mansion b/c one of the beatings was so severe, blood had stained it... :(
From Newsday:
Not surprised.
I think its indicting that in all these years, the best pic the defense can come up with is an indifferent servant opening her present. Not even one where they smile warmly.
I still find the vomit thing hard to believe. That is in the same category of rape to me. Maybe they should force the couple ot eat someone's vomit.
has anyone seen the photo of the wife? She looks like a cross between Michael Jackson and the Desi Cruella Deville! How much plastic surgery and botox injections has that woman undergone?
It's immediate and obvious to notice "The Mrs'" phenotype, but tragically, in this case, there's so much more to be disgusted or horrified by. After reading all I have, I don't even see her face, I'm too consumed with her inexcusable heartlessness and the galling sense of entitlement she had, to think she was allowed to torture others just because she couldn't find her sweater or worse, because these two terrified, battered women tried to please her by serving her without her permission and starting a chore without her.
She really will rot in hell with her husband, who witnessed her behavior/overheard the cries of defenseless women...and did nothing. In a way, he's worse than his sick, hideous wife; he enabled this slavery and torment. And the kids? Completely worthless, for inhaling their evil parents' mindset and not questioning a damned thing. Oh, a maid took a sip of milk? Your parents wired $17 million between accounts, I think you'll survive. Put the fucking phonecam down, you rat.
How greedy can people be?
Did anyone see the photo of the "Christmas present" that the family gave the servant? It might be the ugliest article of clothing ever. The family relied on the picture in their defense to show they were caring for the servants, but would you ever give anyone you cared about something that ugly? I am not even sure what the hell it is?
(photos 7 and 8 at http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzslav1218,0,6927041.story
The Sabhnani clearly aren't very bright. Even Dick Cheney knows that you need to torture people with plausible deniability - such as tasers, mace, and waterboarding, you know all those fun modern techniques that leave no scars and no evidence. You don't see police dumb enough to club you over the head or slash you with a knife; they use a tasers and pepper spray. 21st century to Sabhnanis, hello, try to move past your old 18th century torture techniques and get with the program!
"The Mrs." also reminds me of the evil witch in Sleeping Beauty... only she's uglier... so the outside also reflects the inside.
This productive discussion that has brought to many people's attention a horrible example of a more wide-spread problem should not lead us to become narrowly focused on something like whether The Mrs.' physical appearance betrays her guilt or not. Rather, this discussion should hopefully lead to further personal and public inquiry as to the extent of the tragic problem of domestic (and sexual) slavery that still exists today, locally and abroad.
If you'd like to do something about it. Think about supporting organizations like the Tahirih Justice Center. It recently received the 2007 Washington Post Award for Excellence in Non-Profit Management, and helps immigrant women flee human rights abuses through direct legal services and public policy advocacy.
BTW...I heart Sepia. For ranging from tough topics like this to hilarious videos. Boop!
#63 Shallow Thinker: the stories can seem rather improbable in this day and age, but this is of course not the first instance. This story reminds me of a number of cases that came to light in Malaysia regarding the gross physical abuse and underpayment of Indonesian maids in Kuala Lumpur. It seems to be a growing problem there, and particularly targeted at the Indonesians as they also have Philipino maids who dont seem to have the same degree or rate of abuse.
Anyway, good to see that justice has been served.
Sometimes you wonder how many innocent and helpless people are suffering at any given moment somewhere in the world...at the hands of evil, tyrannical, cruel monsters. And in the majority of cases, it never gets exposed or corrected.
naz wondered,
"did the neighbors have any clue this was going on for five years? did they ever act on this knowledge or ask questions?"
I rented a small apartment in an upper-middle class suburb for many years. And it strikes me now, after I moved out, that suburbia as such often fails to create a "community spirit": I never knew my next-door neighbors, never entered their houses, never knew how they lived, their homes were sound-proofed.... If someone next door had kept slaves, I probably wouldn't have noticed!
:-S
A N N A, thanks for posting this. all around, a really sad case.
this couple not only lacked humanity, they failed to instill some shred of decency in their kids, the next generation. i can see how these behaviors get passed down and repeat themselves.
To be quite honest, the working conditions for maids in India are way much better than in this case. Even when some families have children working for them from the age of 14 or 15, they treat them really well, try to see that they go to school and are at least, healthy. Perhaps because I'm originally from Delhi, I've witnessed the better side of these experiences.
In fact, one elderly couple we knew in Delhi would treat the child working for them as their son, gave him a place to live, paid for him to go to a good school and saw to it that he made something of himself; He was a Harijan(of the lowest Hindu class - some people still believe in that) but I didn't see them caring.
I don't know how some human being could do that to another. My family used to live in the middle east too and we had a live-in maid for my 2 year old brother but the maximum I saw my parents say to her was talk to her about her work and taking care of my brother. My mom would occasionally get angry with her but even then, she would talk to her in the same tone as she would with me or my sister.
Even other Indians living in the middle east - I've never seen them behave like this with their live-in maids.
In my opinion, this couple far from depicts how Indians treat maid servants in India or the middle east.
Being heartless, cruel and vindictive towards people of a lower economic class than you is definitely not an 'Indian' trait to me.
I agree with some of the posters who said they witnessed abuse of domestic help in India. While visiting India, I also noticed verbal abuse of servants by some of my (idiotic) relatives and heard of similar and worse stories. I have also seen kind and humane treatment of servants by some of my relations and others.
It is puzzling why another human would mistreat someone who is doing work for them. What if the cook/servant/maid spits in their food (when the employers) aren't looking or some other mischief to get revenge for bad treatment? Some, not all, people would think about ways to retaliate against bad treatment. I think it would be in the employer's best interest to treat the hired help fairly as much as possible.
(This can lead to all kinds of discussion like the way soldiers are treated by their superiors, the manner in which businesses treat their white and blue collar workers and so on.)
I think the Sabhnani's business is starting to smell more like fertilizer in light of the jury's decision.
I was wondering why they had Indonesian servants instead of Indian servants and the language they used to communicate. It looks like the wife is Indonesian. It is good that both of them are going to jail.
Dude, stop bullshitting. That is most definitely a common indian trait.
May these heathens rot in hell!
Regarding the photo showing what appears to be one of the maids playing in the snow: this photo was used by the defense to show that, well, how can they be slaves if they play in the snow?
Could she have been made to shovel the snow off the driveway with her bare hands?
This issue needs to be talked about, and obviously, many of the posters here are not too comfortable with the way servants are generally treated overseas, myself included. Treating people like this, or even as a lesser human should not happen, here or there. What's your problem with that?
New York Post article..
The whole family appears to be demented..
Golfastrian,
My problem is that this post is about an Indian American couple that mistreated their help and is being convicted for that. I am not saying that domestic help is not mistreated in other parts of the world, but I think harping on that takes the discussion away from the topic. Anyway for all it is worth I know plenty of people that treat their help like family, including paying for the kids’ school, to treating them like family members at family functions, so it is not as cut and dry as it may seem. If you or any other people have seen your extended family members mistreat their help, then it is a testament to them not to a broad sweeping generalizing testament about everyone in a particular country and that is precisely what OT discussions like the ones I mention tend to achieve.
So they're not Sindhi, they're Panjabi Sikhs.
BTW the wife grew up in Indonesia, thats why she probably preferred Indonesian maids.
Its amazing how people can be so cruel and also so "relgious" at the same time. Didn't they ever connect the lessons they learned at the Sikh Center w/ what was happening at home?
I apologize if my comment upset people so much. It was actually meant to be a general call for civility, I acknowledge that India like all the other places is not perfect but at the same time it is not fun for anyone to read people shit on their home all the time.
Sindhi Hindus often worship at gurudwaras, and based on the couple's name, I'd say they are Sindhi, not Punjabi.
Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but haven't you defined one of the few constants of human existence?
Nah, this is a South Asian trait.
Anyway, like I said before, while people often mistreat servants in India (they also often treat them very well and care for them lifelong), this case is just something else. Really scary and bizarre.
In the previous thread on the topic linked to in the post, Amitabh explains how some Sindhi Hindus workship in gurudwaras.
brown@ 93:
Did you read my response to your post? I agree with you wholeheartedly that these discussions need to remain civil, but I do believe my post was misread, as I was not making a generalization.
JGandhi@92:
"Its amazing how people can be so cruel and also so "relgious" at the same time. Didn't they ever connect the lessons they learned at the Sikh Center w/ what was happening at home?"
This always baffles me as well, but it does seem that religion appears to have little effect on many people who engage in such behavior! There are also those people who engage in religious formalities while paying little thought to the actual messages, and that appears to be quite common these days as far as my experience goes.
Akshay,
My comment was not directed at you but a general sentiment, I think I have seen these discussions go the other way too often in the past. Thank you for being gracious enough to clarify.
I am really glad these people were convicted on all counts thereby sending a message to everyone that mistreating domestic workers and anyone else is wrong. Since Samirah escaped and the case broke, I've been haunted by the feeling that the kids were most probably abused as well. I'm just praying for everyone involved in the case that they break away from the past and become better persons.
All that said, I am horrified by the antiIndian (anti "brown") sentiments expressed in the comments sections of Newsday (and other online newspapers). In my rarified little part of the world, I'm rarely exposed to the opinions many people have of us.
Look I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here (I hope that their basic inhumanity is justly punished). But before making statements such as above I would like to:
1) see some statistical evidence of the probability that an Indian would torture domestic help period.
2) given this probability I would like to see that probability conditioned on
a) social class
b) place of residence
3) then I would like to see some comparative evidence--i.e. from other countries--on treatment of domestic help
4) then I would like to combine the two samples (the Indian sample and the say, international sample) and then condition the probabilities on social class, religion, region of residence, nature of political system, nature of legal system etc. (with other controls)
Then if I see that being Indian makes it more likely to torture domestic help, all other things being equal, only then would I make statements such as the above. Until them please speak for your own families and relatives (I don't know what that says about your families and relatives) and leave "Indians" out of it.
I meant the first quoted comment btw, not the second one
It's really unfortunate that this is being posted on Sepia without caution and commented about in this way. No one here was in the court room; no one here heard or saw all the evidence. You would be shocked at how many innocents are in prison; or at how prosecutors will use whatever evidence they can, whether truthful or not, to convict. And to rail against the children without having all the facts as to their culpability is unfortunate. But one thing that all human beings -brown, white, black, yellow, rich, poor - share is the ability to feel good about themselves after ranting against convicted criminals. "I was in prison and ye came unto me. As much as ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
I actually really agree with folks who argue that this isn't a uniquely "Indian" trait. I've met people from all sorts of backgrounds in the U.S. who think that their (relative) access to wealth or citizenship entitles them to abuse people who they traffic into this country for whatever purpose. It's one of the most blatant forms of slavery that persists, and as A.R. mentioned, it flourishes in places where you are discouraged from knowing your neighbors. It reminds me of the infamous NY case where a woman was brutally murdered while several witnesses looked on -- no one stopped the attacker and no one called the police. I have a feeling the Sabhanis had similar protection.
Also, I don't really care if they were Punjabi Sikhs or Sindhi Hindus or Lemurian Zoroastrians. Their actions are disgusting and despicable (and not unique to any one people or ethnic/religious group).
There is a lot of anti-Indian sentiment in Long Island. I know some schools in Herricks, Hicksville and Syosset are more than 20/30% Indian so we are a conspicuous minority there. Also the LI Indian community often has a lot of money and are flaunting it big time. Like tearing down small houses on half acre plots to build mcmansions and driving around in Lexuses blaring Bollywood music.
Hiring full time nannies and maids for substandard wages is not at all unsual (the maids and nannies accept it cause its all cash and is considered a lot of money back in India).
I've seen a lot of anti-Indians entiments like Indians of course will behave like this because Indians are used to oppressing the dalits in India.
I wonder if Mike Mukasey would consider this torture. Maybe the Sabhnanis should have tried the defense that they thought behavior on Long Island, like that other island, Guantanamo, is not subject to basic human norms.
I agree with the outrage expressed by the majority of the posters. What a disgraceful family.
Yes, people other than Indians abuse their help.
Yes, many Indians treat their help well.
But that doesn't mean there isn't a serious issue that needs to be discussed. Sorry if it hurts your feelings to have bad things said about your "country" (where do you live?) but it is a problem, and it needs to be discussed in the open, not hidden away because it makes you feel bad, or because it doesn't happen all the time.
Becasue this is a South Asian American blog, and this is a story about S. Asian Americans abusing their help, I think its appropriate to discuss these issues. How you don't really baffles me.
Playing the devils advocate for this story, how many people think that this is a true story. I mean why do we so confidently side the poor and treat the rich as evil monsters. I smell something more is happening than what we see apparently. Maybe this is the maids opportunity to make big money on some angry outbursts from their boss.
Just a thought.
Nothing is more satisfying that watching a bunch of rich f*cks get their come-uppance. As a punishment their daughters should pay a visit to a hostel in bratislava.
They should have water boarded the maids. Apparently, thats not torture. Also sleep depravation, setting the dogs on the maids and other techniques which are routinely defended by most Republicans.
You should have used the handle 'Sabhnani's advocate', supporting these people and saying you support Lucifer is actually a step down.
I'll never cease to be amazed at how badly, how horribly one human being can treat another.
Golfastrian,
Please don’t stretch your imagination to attribute things to me that I never said. I never said we shouldn’t discuss this South Asian American couple and their mistreatment of their help. For me this is a story of wealthy couple who abused their help, and they are Indian Americans. Anyway we have clearly different opinions on how these discussi