My legal knowledge is pretty limited, but I'm assuming that he will remain under house arrest until sentencing (which he will face stoically). If they decide to seize the house after sentencing, he'll either be acquitted, disproving the existence of a just god, or will be confined to a slightly different 'big house.'

Found this forum discussing the case from an Indonesian perspective. I haven't read it fully myself.

Here's a pertinent quote from the link I posted in my previous comment:

The only one who set a trap is the Sabhnani family, and that's include Varsha's mother (Jothi) as well. I am from Indonesia, so I saw and read in our media what the victim's family had to say about this matter.

Samirah children said that initially their mother worked for Varsha's mother in Indonesia to take care for the old lady. When Varsha's visited her mother in Indonesia, she persuaded her to come to America because she said her mother would go to America too for medical reason. Samirah children never permit their mother to go to America, but they were only told by Varsha's mother that Varsha has brought their mother two days lather (after they left). And indeed, Varsha's mother went to America, but when she returned to Indonesia, Samirah and her friend were left behind!

The judge Platt is right when he said that the couple is capable of deceit and dishonesty. That's the case since the very start.

Oy vey! Samirah didn't even want to stay in the US in the first place.

Wow, thanks pingpong. That's troubling. :(

Yeah, was this bait-and-switch business was probably not known to the prosecution during the case? I'm thinking - could this be classified as a kidnapping, on top of everything else? It may not make a difference to the conviction, but if it were more widely known, it may have an effect on the sentencing. Legal geeks? Your opinions?

the bait and switch would probably have been harder to prove if true. This abuse was a sure thing and prosecutors new the couple would get dime sentences for this.

That girl is poison.

HMF, you just ruined a favorite classic. I'll never look at the phrase "Big Butt and a Smile" the same. Please don't go near Rick James or ATCQ.

There's an interesting story in NY Newsday that discusses how the defense asked the judge to allow the parents to stay at home for the welfare of the kids as the Sabhnani kids were in the words of the defense very "protected" and were not prepared for the upcoming imprisonment of their parents. That seems to have been why the Judge allowed Mr. Sabhnani to be under house arrest, to acclimate the kids to what will occur. The link is http://www.amny.com/news/local/crime/ny-bzslav21,0,6002950.story

Additionally, the story is fascinating in that the defense is claiming juror misconduct. Specifically, that some of the jurors may have come to a conclusion as to guilt or innocence before the entire trial was completed. I included the text of that portion of the article in the previous thread.

I hope I didn't break any SM rule by linking the article, or by placing it on both threads. I'm still new to this forum and still getting my sea legs. If I err, it's unintentional, please do let me know.

I hope I didn't break any SM rule by linking the article, or by placing it on both threads. I'm still new to this forum and still getting my sea legs. If I err, it's unintentional, please do let me know.

You're fine. :) It's wonderful of you to be so conscientious.

An update on Varsha and Mahender Sabhnani, the Muttontown Uncle and Auntie

I feel sorry for anyone who has to call them "uncle and auntie."

They can cry all they want in court, I don't feel one bit of sympathy for them or their children. I hope they get at least 20 years.

Thanks Anna. I hope you are feeling better.

They can cry all they want in court, I don't feel one bit of sympathy for them or their children. I hope they get at least 20 years.

No death penalty?

Her stoic husband, Mahender, 51, who remains out on $4.5 million bail, was allowed to return to the couple’s lavish Muttontown home and is under house arrest.

When sentenced March 28, the couple faces up to 20 years in jail.

Isn't 20 years too much? Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and even terrorists have gotten less.

Isn't 20 years too much? Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and even terrorists have gotten less

Sometimes mental and physical cruelty for years is worse. Besides, people of all types get away with less. That doesn't mean you give someone punishment based on the least term someone with worse crimes have done or even the longest term.

You can probably find someone who did less, but was sentenced for more than 20.

Isn't 20 years too much? Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and even terrorists have gotten less.

Sorry, I formatted stupidly and my comment got cut off:

..who are convicted of those offenses (not a lesser charge) and receive less than 20 years are the exception, not the rule. Hell, most folks charged with possession of crack average a sentence of 10-15 years, and that's not even for distribution. This is certainly worse, in my opinion, and there is definitely a "human trafficking" element compounded with the abuse and enslavement argument. Is slavery so benign an offense that you think they should receive a more lenient sentence?

I was a desi in disbelief, and denial, about the accusations against the Sabhnanis, even though I am from one of those seriously dysfuntional desi families, with a mother who subjected me DAILY to decades of psychological trauma (starting at least when I was 5) with her off-the-wall pathological behaviour, and a stepfather whose cruelty was with physical force against me (Jai is not alone). For some reason, my only other sibling, a brother, was spared. To top it off, I grew up entirely in England, in an affluent professional "home" (anything but) in an area where few other Indians lived, so it was even worse for me as none of my English friends had anything like that kind of relationship with their parents. I never spoke to them about how bad my home life was. I pretended I had great parents. There is no way anyone from the English culture could even fathom how warped some aspects of Indian thinking and being are. It was only many years later that a psychologist (a very attractive well-spoken woman) from our community spoke passionately on national TV about this very topic -- how pervasive the warped mentality was in our community, and that it was long overdue to confront, acknowledge, and address it. Anyway, I could not confide with any of my parents' mostly-Indian friends, who were so much nicer to their kids (although several "disowned" their kids for many years after they married goras, or worse blacks). I tried confiding once to a family friend when I was 18, and this person told my mother even though I had begged her not to, and my life was made more hell for many years after. This put me off so much about India and Indians for many years, and now, at 52, I only recently began to heal.

Back to my enlightenment. I believed foolishly that the Sabhnanis were victims of some scam, even though I believed they undoubtedly violated immigration regulations. That is, until I read through as many of the trial transcripts I could find, and connected up some of the dots. One of the many revelations that clinched their utterly vile persona (the lot of them, kids included) for me was the discovery of the photo of the slave, Samirah, kept by the Sabhnanis in a lockbox (what a sick trophy) that showed her swigging from a milk carton. Followed by Samirah's testimony in court about how she had not been allowed to eat for so long that she was "caught" glugging this milk by the daughter Dakshina, who then "ratted" on her to her mother, and, as all the kids were gathered together to watch the reenactment of the milk slugging with their reprehensible mom and pop, Dakshina took that photo. It was totally believable and convincing testimony about the psychochological aspect of the Sabhnanis' abuse. One of the federal prosecutors, in recently arguing for Varsha (I want to call that b*tch something else, but will restrain myself) to return to jail was that Dakshina was an "unindicted co-conspirator". Clearly, their parents sick behaviour has been a normal part of these kids upbringing. I hope the system demands the Sabhnani kids receive counselling for the lies they've engaged in on their parents' behalf, and for what has been their own active role in the abuse of the two women kept as slaves.

It is still hard for me to grasp many aspects of the Sabhnanis behaviour because I had all my formative years in England, and only two brief visits to India in my life so far, and I grew up with housekeepers who were treated very well by my parents, paid the going rate, but not live-ins. It stuns me how little regard the Sabhnanis had for the well-being and welfare of the women, and for how lonely and miserable these women's lives must have been; how cheap the Sabhnanis were despite their considerable wealth (Pooja drove a $60,000 Porsche SUV bought by her parents); and not least of all how Varsha's mother and sister knew full well the pretext under which they brought both women to USA. Damn right, it was kidnapping, and I wish (like the judge said in court) that the old bat had been sitting next to her daughter in the dock.

I truly feel bad about your and Jai's experiences in the other thread, but I don't think they can be attributed to Indian thinking or being. These are acts taken by individuals who maybe using "Indian culture" for support of their actions, when in fact they are practicing a type of child rearing most Indian parents themselves would consider child abuse.

About the Sabhnanis, considering they imprisoned the maids for 5 years, I believe a 10 year prison sentence would do justice for them. Prison is a fearful place, and although no one probably will be ripping duct tape from varshas naked body, there will be many things to live in fear from there. This is in addition to any large monetary judgement.

To figure out sentencing, most jurisdictions have a chart with recommended amounts of time/punishments. Some crimes have mandatory minimums or a maximum amount of punishment that can be given out for a particular crime. Most of the news stories are saying that they could face up to 20 years, meaning this is probably the maximum amount of time given on the sentencing chart. But ultimately, it's at the judge's discretion. There are a lot of factors that are taken into account..things like good behavior, etc. But it doesn't sound like the judge will be too sympathetic, at least to the woman.

And even if they are given a maximum sentence, there are lots of ways for the time to get reduced as they are serving.

Sorry that this is kind of vague, but I don't know anything about the rules of this particular jurisdiction.

and a stepfather whose cruelty was with physical force against me

I think this is particularly messed up...if you're someone's STEP parent then you have NO right to lay so much as a finger on them, in my view.

Isn't 20 years too much? Murderers, rapists, pedophiles and even terrorists have gotten less.

There is no way anyone from the English culture could even fathom how warped some aspects of Indian thinking and being are.

Sorry Mona, but I know of a few white families where your experience is similar to theirs. Family abuse is not nation specific. There are worse stories involving stepfathers in the U.S.

khoofia, it's amazing (and ironic) that the author of the article you linked to is DAKSHANA BASCARAMURTY.

Mona, I guess that while having to hide your miseries, as children do, from other children-- who in your circumstances were English-- you identified the misconduct as Indian. While I agree that cultural modalities affect the style of abuse, and that style is therefore recognizable, there are authentically white styles of abuse too, equally brutal and Inflicting harm on women who are far from home and family is not uniquely Indian by any means.
I am following this story with much interest.

A few weeks ago, a realtor to celebrities was murdered in her New York apartment by a household employee/personal assistant who later told police she had felt mistreated by her employer, who was given to voicing racial slurs. Quite poles apart from the Sabhnani story, in many ways, and the murder somehow supported psychologically by racially based rage. OTOH, something tells me it took a lot of moxie on the part of the Indonesian maid to even rat on these Desi monsters at all.

I think this story is troubling for many reasons, not the least how "normal" it is considered in India to treat household help shamefully. Of course, this couple was just insanely evil, but lots of Indian families don't pay the people who work in their homes a living wage, or let them sit on chairs, or sleep on a bed. I grew up in India thinking this was normal but then living in Senegal where there is still a widespread culture of hiring people for household help, I realised that things could be different. Our maids in Senegal for example, all ate dinner with us out of a common bowl. I am hoping for the day this will happen in my family in India :)

I think this story is troubling for many reasons, not the least how "normal" it is considered in India to treat household help shamefully. Of course, this couple was just insanely evil, but lots of Indian families don't pay the people who work in their homes a living wage, or let them sit on chairs, or sleep on a bed. I grew up in India thinking this was normal but then living in Senegal where there is still a widespread culture of hiring people for household help, I realised that things could be different. Our maids in Senegal for example, all ate dinner with us out of a common bowl. I am hoping for the day this will happen in my family in India :)

Very true. And as India is unusual in that even its middle class has domestic servants there are many, many datapoints to support this assertion.

I actually really don't think this abuse is uniquely Indian. I know I've said that before, so I hope I'm not being a squeaky wheel. Abuse of household staff exists in India, it's very true. However, having lived in different communities with maids/nannies, etc., there seems to be a recurrent belief that people can abuse people in more vulnerable socioeconomic positions (and explain away the abuse).

The same holds for child abuse. Jai and Mona, your stories are horrific, and I'm so sorry that you had to endure those experiences. Unfortunately this is prevalent across communities and nations, as is silence around the issue. Within my peer group I actually don't know many ABDs who grew up in households without DV (this is totally not a representative sample), but many of my friends across ethnicities, etc., have had similar experiences. I'm always amazed by how so many issues are common across communities.

well i guess domestic abuse being part of the "indian mentality" and being a univrsal are not mutually exclusive. in other words all cultures may poses a characteristic...racism, terrorists, DV...but just not to the same degree.

As to which culture has the most DV, I haven't the slightest.

My thanks to all who took a moment to comment on my growing-up years, and those beyond.

Particularly for Pravin - I accept your well-meant and constructive criticism, and Amrita - very well phrased. You know, I have been emotionally stunted by the family life I've had, so I can't be as reasoned as you both. Managed to scrape becoming academically qualified, but remained mentally ill-developed and essentially alone until my mid 40s when I met a wonderful (Indian) man whom I eventually married. If it hadn't been for him, I was headed for a nuthouse. Despite my luck in running into this funny sweet caring man, I still believed I was the destructive, mentally-unhinged daughter my parents described me to be. Then, just last year, two relatives who'd I'd never have expected to say anything nice to me, told me they were astonished how "normal" I turned out in the circumstances. It was worth waiting for!

No, mine was not a result of the clash of a girl who wanted to party, and ethnic parents who were horrified.

The first worst event, as opposed to the lesser everyday ones I was subjected to, occurred just before my 7th birthday, and was reported in the local London paper (as: missing child found). For some infraction of mine I don't recall, my stepfather (in the presence of my mother) literally threw me out of the house they were renting. Me wearing flannel pyjamas because it was at bedtime. I sat on the doorstep, too proud to yell to be let back in. My parents knew I was out there, as I looked up to the upstairs balcony, and I could see them, and they could see me. I was hidden from the street by some large (to me) bushes, otherwise I think some passerby would have come to my aid. The entire street went dark, and all I could think of was how to get to school the next day. I climbed into a neighbour's empty trash can, and fell so sound asleep that I did not realize it was the next night, and I was being pulled out by a policeman. My parents were standing in the background, and the next thing I knew was they were admonishing me for "running away", for everyone to hear. I wanted to retort what a lie that was. A policewoman was also there, and she picked me up, put me in the police car still in my pyjamas, and took me to a Wimpy, where I had a burger and chips. It was the era when this was a major treat. My brother was taken too, and this policewoman used this as an opportunity to talk to me about not hurting my parents. I think every child would have done as I did, and say nothing to the contrary, even though I wanted it to be known how mean my stepfather was. Do you know, I still recall how GOOD it felt to feel such warmth and kindness from that policewoman. Life just got worse after that. I lived in fear, as I never knew what could trigger the acts against me. My mother worked far away from home for my early childhood (of all things as a doctor doing the equivalent of her residency), but when she re-entered my life in my early teens, her abuse was of the psychological kind, and she could reduce me to quivering jelly. It was not something I had any ammunition for, except to withdraw into a morose, mute shell. I grew up eating alone, exchanging no pleasantries or small talk; just silence or abuse. Good job I loved school, studying, and sports, as these kept me from killing myself. Really.

As my parents' wealth grew, I became more neglected, and at one of their many social functions was occasionally mistaken for a servant, because of my clothes and demeanor! I had to attend, and pretend everything was normal and cozy at home, and I used to get so envious at how lovingly other girls and their mothers interacted, and how pretty and vivacious they all were (including my own mother) compared to my dowdy dreary self.

I don't know why my parents behaved this way with me, and my attempts at engaging in a dialogue with them at various stages of my life always devolved into screaming matches. But I am so happy now to be the way I am. I have an inner serenity and contentment at how fortunate I am to live in safety and comfort when there is so much tragedy and heartache that people go to their graves with.

My last word on this personal topic, and hope I haven't deviated from commenting guidelines by writing this way, off topic -- thank you all so much again, at Sepia Mutiny. It has been wonderful "meeting" you by reading through the archives.

Wow, Mona. I'm humbled by your testimony. Thank you for sharing that. So sad, so unnecessary. I'm glad you've found some happiness now at this stage in your life, and I hope your healing process continues. I don't know if your mom is still alive, but I hope you will not be there for her when she needs you.

I just wanted to throw a story out there about a bunch of Indians who treat the 'help' very well... my mother hires a maid (let's call her Rose) who immigrated from El Salvador to come clean our house about once a month. She always buys her lunch and gives her a 20% tip. Once her son came with her and I watched cartoons with him and went out to get him some candy. The last time she was here she hugged my mother good-bye. Rose was actually 'recommended' to my mother by her friend who found her through a maid service and who cleans the house alongside Rose when she hires her, and my mother has gone on to 'recommend' Rose to other friends who were impressed by how sparkling clean the house was. All these women are very Indian. So, Indians aren't all bad, people! Some of then are in fact very nice.

Mona:

I'm truly saddened to hear of the abuse and terror you had to grow up with (especially considering your mother was a physician), but I sincerely hope you were being ironic with this:

Anyway, I could not confide with any of my parents' mostly-Indian friends, who were so much nicer to their kids (although several "disowned" their kids for many years after they married goras, or worse blacks).

Our maids in Senegal for example, all ate dinner with us out of a common bowl. I am hoping for the day this will happen in my family in India :)

I have been told that servants/domestic help in Pakistan often carry themselves with a certain amount of dignity, and are treated with a certain amount of courtesy and respect by their employers. I wish it was like that in India too.

I'm truly saddened to hear of the abuse and terror you had to grow up with (especially considering your mother was a physician), but I sincerely hope you were being ironic with this:

Anyway, I could not confide with any of my parents' mostly-Indian friends, who were so much nicer to their kids (although several "disowned" their kids for many years after they married goras, or worse blacks).

Let's not pretend that in the desi (non-muslim) hierarchy this is not how things go down. It was said best in Bend It Like Beckham; a desi of your own religion is first preferred, then a gora, then a black, and a muslim? Forget it.

Although blatant abuse of domestic help may not be rampant in India, due to the hierarchal nature of desi culture, even if the help is treated kindly, they still "know their place". I've noticed many times while visiting family in Faridabad that the help will take their seats on the floor when plenty of chairs are available. It's second nature to them to just be expected to do that. They've been doing that their whole lives and they would not be so presumptuous as to assume they could, gasp!, sit on chairs and couches along with their employees. And my family just allows them to sit there as if it's normal, despite their being plenty of seats and couches everywhere.

This is definetly a very desi feature. In Latin America where I lived for three years I never once saw domestic help sit on the floor while employees sat on chairs.

Can anyone speak for the Arab world regarding seating arrangements? I'd be interested to know if I'm right in assuming it's a desi thing or if it's perhaps just an "eastern" thing altogether.

Dear Sepia Mutiny readers and commenters: For my comment "...or worse blacks" I am truly sorry to have left any impression other than attitudes I encountered (at the time of my story, which was some 25 years ago) regarding a desi marrying anyone other than another desi. I tried, and am mortified that it came across as being in poor taste and judgment, to indicate a downward scale of unsuitability that I perceived to exist in that era.

After my own experience, I am amongst a group (incl some non-desis) who have been attempting to set up a national (regional, plus chapters) voluntary organization along the lines of the Samaritans in England specifically for the diaspora (and its descendants) desi community. It requires many safeguards to implement successfully, as well as the ability to recognize how to address the diverse cultural and religious nature of this community. For the time being, for various reasons, it is proving difficult to implement.

Ar,

Just following up on your earlier post, since the Sabhnani's were tried in federal court, United States Federal Sentencing Guidelines will apply. The Guidelines were created to insure some uniformity between the different federal courts as some judges were the "hanging" type while others were more apt to sentences of long walks in the park. (That's all figurative - not meant to be read literally). So while there's some discretion allowed to the federal court judge it's much less than what would be afforded a state court judge. As you suggested, there is a matrix (not the movie kind) that the judge follows in sentencing. The Sabhnanis were found guilty on all 12 counts of their indictment that included charges of forced labor, involuntary servitude, conspiracy and harboring aliens. In summary, the guidelines list a base level offense recommendation for each offense. Then that number goes up if the convicted has a previous offense history. In this case, that would not apply as the Sabhnanis were never previously convicted of a crime. (That I know of). Then the judge can "downward depart" or "adjust" depending on certain factors allowed in the guidelines. An example where the judge can downward depart from the base offense level is where the convicted accepts responsibility. Once again, the guidelines specify how far down the judge can adjust. Similarly, the judge can decide to upward adjust for factors such as obstruction of justice.

I'm providing a link to the United States Sentencing Guidelines in case anyone wants to take a read at it. BTW, it's over 600 pages. While I'm sure everyone on SM are scrupulous individuals, to those who want to find out how much time they can get for their various activities, the guidelines are quite easy to follow. (Especially if your a brownie, we all know how smart we are supposed to be). Look at the table of contents, find the crime, go to the page and read what the base offense level will be and then go to the table on page 392 to find out what that equates to in terms of months. You should know if you need any adjustments. To the scrupulous ones who have time to kill, you can use the table to figure out what the Sabhnanni's could get.

The link to the pdf document is http://www.ussc.gov/2007guid/GL2007.pdf.

not sure how i stummbled upon this site?, but actually quite glad i did.
i have a connection with indian culture,(even tho i white british) as i was in foster care with a indian foster mother who was married to a lovely bethnal green cockney man called ray.
point i trying to make is i bloody hated the woman she was controlling ans very mean ...actually i trying to be polite she was a bitter bitch, i have good indian freinds all1 of them lol but the abuse that gos on in this culture is disgusting....however i wish i had had the dicipline and correct doctrine of life, that these familys are intent on bestowing onto there chgildren as i may well of had become a doctor , lawyer etc... i may seem to be ranting but i do have a point and that is discipline is a very important thing that unfortunatly is lacking in todays society, stop liftin your noses up or head down at cultures outside your own as i believe all races are racist just because of color and creed....i say fix up and never turn a blind eye to abuse ever i went to 13 foster homes 2 boarding schools ,2 childrens homes and 24 prisons in which was in and out through stupid crimes and no stability i.e car crime and to feed a drug habit that was at that time my best freind,mum,dad all in 1 but was killing me at the same time mona god bless hope u have all happiness u dreamt of in those evil days may u all love each other but every1 else thats wot sets us apart from ignorance god bless love alan on isle of wight age 31 xx love to meet neone who has gone through ne of this just hit me on facebook or e-mail me i will get back 2 u asap x