January 19, 2008
Nandi Ethics: When Newkirk Found JallikattuAnimals
For those who are aware of it, this past week (specifically January 14th and 15th) was generally a time for celebration—Thai Pongal Usually, in my own family, this just means pongal rice, a “Happy Thai Pongal, darling!” from various overseas relatives and thus it remains one of those ever-dwindling, absolutely pure links to my childhood. Or so I thought. Another part of the festivities in India, aside from thanking Bhumi Devi for the year’s bounty, involves the snatching of treats and trinkets from the body of a bewildered bull by people one could only describe as foolhardy.
In my militant lacto-vegetarian days, quite unaware of the hypocrisy in animal ethics this stance represented, on trips abroad I would often attempt to shame my poor relatives who were trying to enjoy their egg/chicken/mutton in peace. Like the loving relatives that they were, they indulged my illogical rantings and kept on eating the Bambi/Babe/Nemo till the loud belches that signify true satisfaction were heard.
I often equate PETA with the crusader of my childhood, running into any ideological fray with shrill and often crass symbolic protestations of what they see as intolerable injustices. In the case of Jallikattu, however, I’m a bit more charitable towards their latest (via Newstab) stunt: blindfolding a statue of Gandhi in Coimbatore, to shield him from this rather pathetic scene:
To be clear, Jallikattu seems to involve no spears or other sharpened instruments used to slowly break the will of an animal better suited to eating/mating/sleeping than mortal combat and it is also very dissimilar to the American rodeo, where riders attempt to hold on for a few wretched seconds or lasso a smaller animal. It does, however, represent a set of questions for us all:
How effective can Ingrid Newkirk be in influencing the people who enjoy Jallikattu to gradually abandon this practice? I am permanently struck by the parallel of Margaret Sanger getting the semi-cold shoulder from Gandhi and finding a more sympathetic ear in Nehru and Tagore.
What does she think when she sees the villagers shouting and clapping and hopping with glee every time the bull nearly misses a jumki-snatching bravo?
If you disapprove, what organizations in India will stump for the bull? I certainly did not read about the Hindutva crowd running to rescue Nandi-ji from the spectacle or to break Ingrid out of jail.
If you don’t give a toss, or like a good bull-baiting, what’s the utilitarian value that one derives from this practice? There are innumerable adrenaline-generating activities to puff the chest, firm the upper lip and improve the posture that don’t involve a whiff of animal cruelty.
Descriptions of Jallikattu in the western press are beginning to incorporate charges of feeding alcohol to the bulls and introducing chilli powder to various orifices(nose, mouth, ears) in an effort to spice up the baiting. Is there any Jallikattu enthusiast who can verify this?
Personally, I hold no great love for the baiting of animals for sport/kicks/reaffirming your place in the food chain. I would be far more impressed if the participants were tangling with a Belgian Blue, an Elephant or Tatiana. But then, of course, there would have been far too many human deaths for the activity to be ongoing and popular.
Nayagan on January 19, 2008 09:19 AM in Animals, History, Issues · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
The supreme court of india had banned Jallikattu initially.. put faced with public ( Tamil) protest they relaxed the ban.. was to be done under strict supervision.. other than PETA no other organisation has publically raised its voice against this practice.. as for the RSS.. chances of them commenting against a tam hindu tradition seem remote !!!!
it's what people do. i'm inclined to shrug and pass on. even so, i wont equate a cultural tradition with a religious practice whose outlawing would be taboo.
of topical interest - have seen bullcart racing in tamil nadu. as a racer passed by i saw the driver grinning and his hand under the tail. he may have been kneading the testicles or using a prod on the goods. the animal was in torment. it was foaming at the mouth and the eyes were rolling. it was also ripping along at quite a clip for a beast that size.
Jallikattu is an ancient Tamil tradition from times when society was predominantly agrarian and is typically restricted to the timeframe around Pongal. It is not held throughout the year like bullfighting or rodeos. It is one of many activities during this Thanksgiving to the Earth, Sun, the bountiful harvest and for wishes of prosperity. PETA or the Supreme court are not going to stop this tradition from continuing since they are focused on stopping the tradition, instead of moulding it to move towards better treatment of the bulls. For the most part cattle in the villages are treated as part of the family and get as much or as little care as the rest of the family.
What could lead to this tradition dying out is if Tamil society becomes predominantly urban and removed from it's agrarian roots over a few generations. Even then it may survive as a tourist attraction in pockets, unlike the present mass activity it is in most villages around Pongal time.
Isn't it a bit ironic to be celebrating Thai Pongal with rice bought at the supermarket? ;-)
People need a rite of passage to mark the entry into manhood. Tamil boys are not allowed to grow a moustache, ride a Bullet or sit for the MSFT certification exam until they participate in Jallikattu. Perhaps some cultural anthro grad from Bennington College or Pomona can devise an equally meaningful ritual to replace this atavistic practice of old lemuria. Newkirk can't get us to drop this without a replacement of some kind
JVP ??. What org. is that?. I have heard about JVP of Srilanka, never heard of JVP in India. I think you have a limited understanding of the organisations in Tamilnadu/India. RSS is not a leading org. in Tamilnadu and I doubt even if many people are aware of it. BJP, TN unit is against the "jallikattu' ban and pretty much the political class in Tamilnadu is unanimous in denouncing the ban of the "Supreme Court".
My personal view is that banning is a "stupid" move. "Jallikattu" is part of the Tamil culture and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Better safety measures and better treatment of animals would be fine.
4 · rob said
Good point. I also wonder whether it's disrespectful to eat brown rice on the same day.
louiecypher,
I don't know about the rite of entry into manhood (frankly, I think studying/working abroad is more than sufficient) but I was struck by Newkirk's apparent assumption that a vestern lady could ride in on a cultural superiority horse and expect all the darkies to immediately shape up and stop torturing the cow.
Until you stare death in its cud chewing mouth, you are a mere pretender. A dravidian man-child in long pants and Ray-Bans playing make believe.
6 · Ponniyin Selvan said
PS,
fixed the reference--you like it better now? Better not get offended, you did say that you're no fundie!
So, if female genital mutilation was considered a part of tamizh culture, you would support it just on the basis of it being a cultural component?
If you're so concerned about Dalits allegedly killing/eating a cow, why would you allow it to be tormented (if only once a year)?
8 · louiecypher said
I don't know about the rite of entry into manhood (frankly, I think studying/working abroad is more than sufficient) but I was struck by Newkirk's apparent assumption that a vestern lady could ride in on a cultural superiority horse and expect all the darkies to immediately shape up and stop torturing the cow.
This image, I LOWE!
Nayagan,
I think you are too quick to jump to conclusions.
Read my comment again in a calm mood. you did fix a mistake, right??.
ROFL. What's the relation between Female Genital mutilation / concern about Dalits Killing/eating cows and myself defending "jalli kattu". Do you think people who defend "jalli kattu" also support FGM and are concerned about Dalits killing/eating cows. BTW, I do enjoy "medium well" steak. I don't like it "rare". Does that mean I'm concerned about myself eating a cow?.
Cheer up buddy. I am not here to pick up fights. I was just pointing out a few mistakes. Don't take it personal.
So i'm your buddy now? Good to know in case I'm ever cornered by the IslamoFascisticHindooOpressors.
I wasn't referring to you, actually, I was thinking of why the people who felt aggrieved enough to kill Dalits on the suspicion of having killed a cow don't immediately run over to TN and protect the bulls dragooned into Jallikattu. That's all.
Ohm, naangal siveththa arici-yai pavikka vernum.
Off Topic: The rituals surrounding the Tam-Hindu 'Thaipusam' festival (such as piercing flesh with spears) are also banned in India. (though still celebrated by Tamils in Singapore and Malaysia)
for the etymological pp out there: what do the words "jalli kattu" mean?
i think one way to get the vesterners to quit this project would be to fund some south asian film school student's documentary which s/he can show at sundance... any film-makers out there interested in this?
'kattu' means tying; 'jalli' i'm not sure
Ponniyin Selvan @ 6
Well said, Machaan. Mutineers, see how fast two Tamilians become relatives! JalliKattu and calling each other "Machaan" (bro-in-law) are very big part of our culture. They will continue even if Supreme court bans them just like other Tamilnadu/Tamil related rulings.
Stop arguing guys. Nayagan and Ponniyin Selvan, after all we are all Maamans (uncles) and Machaans.
People watch too much Murattu Kaalai scenes, heh! The bulls are grown in captivity and trained to react offensively. If people need more kick out of the bull, they do feed alcohol. Yes, it is true. I can also tell you that not all the bulls are intoxicated. Someone needs to tame the animal and get the prize, right?
And the Tamil women?
Must they be doomed to having sewn their hymens?
Oh, Jallikattu.
My father insisted that the cows were treated properly, unlike those Spaniard brutes.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS179446+10-Jan-2008+PRN20080110
Eng #14, Do you know when the practice of piercing flesh with spears got banned in India? Dancers with spears sticking through their toungue,cheeks, chest etc. used to be a common sight in temple processions in Kerala 20+ years back. Could still be going on, not sure, as I haven't been to a procession since the 80's.
Your assumption of "Newkirks assumptions" is way off the mark. It is trendy and interesting and to bring in west v/s east in inter cultural interactions. But most of the times we end up in caricaturing people on both sides, without understanding the real intentions behind their actions.
PETA does most of its stunts in west and very few in east. If there was an issue of cultural superiority, It would have been the other way around.
Blinding Gandhi's eyes may seem quirky. But it shows how well Newkirk understands the Indian sensibilities (as an aside, I think PETA has a better understanding of peoples actions and their motives, than many academics and psychologists who reduce every issue into a framework of rich v/s poor, west v/s east, oppressed v/s oppressor etc). By blinding Gandhi she is saying Gandhi would not have approved of it. Many Indians consider Gandhi to represent the best of Indian morality. In effect, she is pointing to people that what they are doing is against their own Indian ethos. No where do I see west v/s east issue over here, except the person who is doing the protest is a white lady.
Finally, this is a protest just like thousands of other protests that happen everywhere in the world. So protestors hope people stop jallikattu. They are smart enough not to expect it
My own take on whether it needs to be stopped is complex. I think it could be good fun as long as the bulls are not tortured to the extreme. Hey the bulls could probably be enjoying it too..
Not to be nitpicking, this is your comment
There is no way anyone can figure out that the first "you" is for me and the remaining "you"s refer to other people. seems like a 'lame' argument.
Anyways, you seem to have "limited" or "vague" understanding of Tamil or in general Indian politics and it manifests itself in various comments/blogs.
Which is why she flew from her nest in Va. Beach to Tamil Nadu--to play tiddlywinks with the local constable and flap her gums at a photo-op that few attended. Do you know what the meaning of the word "apparent" is or are you too lazy to look it up? I'd understand the picking of this nit if making this connection was central to the post but it's not. Also this 'change is possible' attitude is really the foundation of all activism-based organizations--if you concede that your 'activism' is ineffective and has no merit, what's the point?
There's nothing so incredibly bare of facts as one of your comments nor anything as frightfully redundant as reading two in a row. So, in response to your oh-so-erudite assumption, I'll make a few:
1. You know nothing about Jallikattu and can contribute nothing more to this discussion than your usual twaddle about "it's part of the culture" and "I don't see anything wrong with it."
2. You don't seem to grasp that expressing an opinion as simple as "yes" or "no" is usually only the beginning--when you begin to answer "why" you expressed that opinion, everyone else can actually learn something new.
I think my comments are based on your 'naivete'. You yourself admitted and corrected one mistake, (i.e removing the JVP reference) and then continue to imply the line that 'hindutvadi crowd' should be against "Jallikattu" because it is supposedly cruel to the revered "Nandiji". You have no idea of "Tamil politics" or even the "hindutavdi crowd". You just bring unrelated and irrelevant issues like "Female Genital Mutilation" and "Dalit Killing" and other "lame arguments". Your latest comment is another one.
So, does anyone know what 'Jalli' means? (I'm not a linguist, but) I'm pretty confident it's not a (classical) Tamil word--maybe it entered 'mainland Tamil' from another language? They (well, we) don't do Jallikattu in Sri Lanka, as far as I know.
26 · rob's friend said
Apparently Salli, from the idiomatic Salli Kaasu.
"Salli" for coins sounds Sinhalese (not Tamil!) to me, so how did that wind up in Tamil Nadu? The mystery thickens....
This page lists "salli" as a "Tamil loanword" to Sinhalese--that's funny, because I think of it as a non-Tamil, Sinhalese word! Ahhhh, the politics of language! Do people in Tamil Nadu use 'salli' as a Tamil word to mean coins? And, anyone know why Jallikattu (I'm seeing cave paintings portraying it when I google!!) isn't present (did it never exist, or die out?) amongst Tamils in Sri Lanka (or, is present and I'm clueless)?
I've often heard it used in movies, specifically in the context where the pater familias disowns the prodigal or recalcitrant son by saying "Salli kaasu kooda thara maatein", which means "I won't give you even a bit of money."
Cool, thanks! I will unload this example on my unsuspecting aunties in Toronto/Sydney/etc. the next time they, in their tiresome way, go one about how "pure" Sri Lankan Tamil is compared to Tamil in Tamil Nadu, when anyone who's looked at it for more than, say, 15 minutes, knows it's a lot more complicated than that!!
Jallikattu is a relic of colonial oppression, a callous ritual of self-mockery obsessively observed by unaware natives. It is a Dravidian corruption of the British cry, "Jolly Kaatu" (show me a good time), uttered by Anglos drunk on power as they egged hapless Tamils on to gallop harder like horses on a track.
OK, you are very funny!! (Can I introduce my lame-ass cousins to you??!!)--but, I am still interested in the real story. Why is this a big celebration among the mainland Tamils, but not even an event by the Tamils in Sri Lanka?
I used to be a supporter of PeTA a long time back (Still have a PeTA sticker from a contribution 10 yrs ago), but based on what I have seen from them, I think this quote by TySixtus pretty much sums up PeTA and its core supporters
"....their organization is made up of lying, hypocritical **ckwitted scumbags who care more about rats and beagles than they do people. Grow up, you stupid fucking hippies"
(The quote is from a PeTA related thread on Rant and raves which contains has a bunch of comments illustrating the hypocracy and lunacy of PeTA
Your comment was entirely unnecessary--effecting change is the raison d'etre for most activist groups--if she spent more than a day there it only bolsters my own point that the old bat really thinks she can do something. Asking what the hell she really wanted to get out of this is not only valid it's the most obvious question raised by her little stunt. Do you know what the parallel is between Sanger and Newkirk? No, because you can't read past what aggrieves you to the end of the paragraph. That is the height of laziness and thus I'll stop responding to your snide and not-substantive questions.
you see, there's this sticky question of precedents--Newkirk going to India to educate the natives, something they apparently can't do themselves without great white mama PETA, is not without precedent. Sanger made the very same trip, ended up finding a sympathetic ear only in a few elites and never really succeeded. Symbolic action is, IMO, pretty damn pointless but nobody, and no animal, will benefit from more empty grandstanding.
rob's friend,
in my grandfather's heyday, they had plenty cocks with which to validate their manliness. The feathers flew, the blood poured and one would eventually walk the headless plank.
I din't know about this. Don't you folks celebrate "maatu pongal" / "kaanum pongal" ?. This is basically a thanksgiving festival. First day for the sun/nature, second day for the cows and bulls, third day for the friends/family. Ofcourse, for people who don't have cows/bulls, it's not a big deal, we just cook great food and celebrate.
I dont know why you are getting your chuddies in twist. As a blogger you should be able to respond to comments without acrimony and personal attacks. As a commentor, I just pointed out what I thought was incorrect. I too have no intention to continue conversation with you. I hope the monkeys in the bunker will not erase these comments. Let the mutineers read them and make their opinions about your posts and comments.
There is lots of support in Tamil Nadu for banning Jallikattu. The issue comes up every year, even among religious leaders. It's not as if PETA is the first on the scene. Beyond what farm hands to do bulls (the descriptions in point #5, about the alcohol and the chilly powder, are accurate) participants are maimed and killed in these events.
One of the biggest Jallikattu events, at Alanganallur outside Madurai, suffered a scaffolding collapse a few years ago. The bulls run down the main street of the town, with a gauntlet formed by large makeshift scaffoldings on either side, with thousands of people hanging off it. Lots of people were injured.
Police complain about the inability to control the massive crowds. Doctors complain about not having enough trauma staff, and the government hospitals in Madurai fill up with war wounded. It's a pretty gruesome affair, not just innocent cultural fun.
A lot of alcohol is involved in watching football and baseball games and quite a few fights result in near castrations
Should we ban football and baseball ?
I've never seen Thai Pongal celebrated for more than a day in Sri Lanka. Maybe in the villages, they do. Even there though, I'm pretty sure that they don't pull the tails of the bulls! I do think the kolams are better in India, though!
40 · Ponniyin Selvan said
Should we ban football and baseball ?
this comparison doesn't seem entirely fair. personally, where would you feel safer? at a bullfight where the police is unable to handle the crowd, and medical help is probably inadequate, or at a soccer game where fights are breaking out (usually) between little isolated factions of people (and since these happen in wealthier nations, the police have a number of more effective crowd control mechanisms and trauma care is much more reliable and effective).
second, a significant number of people who want jallikattu banned do not want to do it because of public safety reasons (something like a consequentialist justifcation; potential risk of injury outweighs enjoyment of the ritual), but because of how the animals may have been treated. Moreover, a person who objects to jallikattu might say that a virtuous person could never knowingly enjoy such a ritual that inflicts pain on sentient beings, and that those that enjoy this ritual do it out a sense of depravity which should not be condoned. The depravity criticism applies to rowdy soccer fans, but they cannot be said to hurt creature that lacks agency.
40 · Ponniyin Selvan said
The link you just posted, btw, clearly shows the role of law enforcement and emergency medical infrastructure in protecting the football fan's lineage-continuation apparatus. Second, society at large does not condone the incident, especially as the troublemaker is being prosecuted under law. Such a public and legal consensus against jallikattu has not coalesced in tamil nadu. Again, that shows how both situations are not analogous.
--
Does anyone feel here that when such traditional situations are widely criticized by outsiders in strident terms, the community in question feels that it/or its right to cultural preservation is "under siege," and refuses to engage with merits of the argument against their practice? Especially as internal criticism against the practice would have led to the dying out of the practice anyway? I feel like the intense and unrelenting criticism of orthodox communities (as opposed to civil dialog and tempered language) ends up producing recalcitrance and whack justifications of practices like fear of miscegenation, racism, female circumcision, and what-have-you.
Right, but the above statement implies that the police should be able to handle the crowd and adequate medical help should be provided. I agree with that. I don't see any reason for banning the game though, the same way that I see no reason for banning football / soccer / baseball games for the indirect injuries they cause.
Do you think that's a strong justification for banning the sport (refer to the bolded word) ?. Read this report from Newyork Times
link
In previous years, owners had reportedly resorted to punching their bulls, rubbing lemon juice in the bulls’ eyes and injecting them with chili powder in efforts to rile them up. And contestants (along with a few bulls) were inebriated on arrack, a homemade coconut liquor, before entering the ring.
But that was before the death of the 14-year-old boy prompted a chorus of criticisms from newspaper editors, lawmakers and activists who complained that the sport was backward, dangerous, a violation of animals’ rights and detrimental to India’s modernizing image. This year, medical checkups were given to bullfighters and bulls, doctors were on call to treat injuries and two tiers of shoulder-high bamboo fences were erected between the bullfighters and spectators.
Is there a problem if good care is taken for the bulls and bullfighters ?. What's the need to ban?. It's just another sport where people have some fun.
I don't think anyone refused to engage with the merits of the argument. Just that there were no merits in the first place.
"jallikattu" is not equivalent to a game of "gladiators" where someone dies in the end to entertain the medieval barbarian crowd. Accidents do happen sometimes and it is our job to prevent that from happening, just beacuse someone dies / gets injured in a football game where 250+ ponds people dash against each other with all their armaments, you don't call for banning football, same case with "jallikattu". It is associated with the festival of offering thanks to cows and bulls and definitely means no harm to the animals.
I think if people learn more about "jalli kattu" they would reach the same conclusion that the Newyork Times reporter arrived at.
spell check..
beacuse -> because
ponds -> pounds
Banning these kind of traditions is a knee-jerk reaction to perceived harm caused to spectators and participants primarily from some urban based groups that are removed from the rural cultural milieu. Ideas of 'high culture' vs 'low culture' also play into this dynamic. The right thing to do would be to push for safety measures in the high profile jallikattu in places like Alanganallur, which are usually the ones that trigger the 'ban' responses based on newspaper reports of massive safety lapses, injury to spectators and participants, never to bulls. Of course enforcement would be a different matter, as is enforcement of anything in India and hence the call for bans!
This article in The Hindu gives a little more background on the evolution of Jallikattu or Sallikattu from 'Manju Virattu'. In my childhood, whenever I went to my village for Pongal, it was 'Manju Virattu' that I usually saw. The jallikattu would usually be in the biggest village (which could support a makeshift stadium and a large group of spectators both local and from the surrounding villages) among the cluster of smaller villages.
Paamaran
well said. I like your handle name.
44 · Ponniyin Selvan said
From my point of view, you're right; the public safety reason or India's modernized image concerns, do not factor into the ethical evaluation of jallikattu. The one reason that I find compelling: if you think of animals (which are capable of feeling pain) are creatures with considerable moral status, then, arguably, you may not use them for a practice like jallikattu. on that view, a ban on jallikattu is indicated. on the other hand, i would rather not alienate the community that practices this ritual, and so feel that the community itself reflect and develop a set of practices which they wish to endorse in accordance with their moral commitments (perhaps a 'proxy' ritual for jallikattu?).
Another famous ethical claim that Kant makes wrt to the moral status of animals that would support those wish to ban jallikattu (The Stanford Encyclodepia of Philosophy has a great entry!):
My person non-sympathy for jallikattu comes from a general distaste for religious rituals, especially ones that people just tend to follow, without an understanding of what it symbolizes. i tend to like nice family and community-bonding rites (like lohri or holi, for instance) or yummy festival food. the rest - fasts, observances for widows, dietary restrictions, sacrifices, appeasing brahmins, donations to religious causes rather than to charity - i don't care for.
rob's friend,
The article from 'The Hindu' above could perhaps explain why jallikattu never made it big in Sri Lanka. If Sri Lanka did not have the zamindari system. that was supposed to have patronised and made the more common 'manju virattu' into the more spectator friendly jallikattu, it could be explained.
Evolution ofsociety and politics play a big role in what festivals are predominant in an area. Thaipoosam is bigger than Pongal in Malaysia and Singapore, compared to Tamil Nadu. Or take Ganesh Chaturthi (Pullaiyar or Vinayaga Chathurthi in TN) and how it is celebrated in a bigger way in Maharashtra (due to Lokmanya Tilak's moves in early 20th century) than say in Tamil Nadu.
i think you put this very well. both observations are spot-on. at the same time, though, i think there are many whose distaste for jallikattu may come from not cultural distaste, but from using an animal in a way that seems completely avoidable. it's safe to venture, i think, that jallikattu is not something that the bull "enjoys" (of course, the empirical question of whether bulls can "enjoy" in the first place remains to be answered. we have very little concrete data on animal intelligence, and still less, about how much "emotion" they can feel).
i do not think i am opposed to animals being kept humanely until they are butchered for food or(i'm a vegetarian myself; although, probably for my own sake rather than that of the animals) or clothing, or used as beasts of burden where no other option is available.
If you haven't, to en light yourself a bit more about jallikattu do have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallikattu
I think you should also add
or used in "jallikattu"Comeon, you make so many exceptions, why not add one more, atleast in this case the animal is not killed and treated with respect before and after the game. :-)
Thank You Rajaraja Cholar avargale:)
portmanteau,
Distaste for jallikattu based on hearsay and reports rather than first hand experience is not very useful. If you have any experience of the rural ethos in India, you would know that cattle are treated as part of the family, as good or as bad as the rest of the family. If you eat pongal, then you share that with your cattle. If you have a little toddy for celebration, then you share it with your cattle as well as your deity. They do not debate about animal intelligence and emotion, they accept that they have them, albeit like children they need to be guided. They do not believe like Kant and the rest of the west that man is supreme and God has given him control over the animals. They live out interdependence and harmony with cattle and other animals and with nature traditionally. It is a different thing when they get divorced from this agrarian rural ethos. So when Pongal comes around every year the farmer rejoices for the bountiful harvest, shares it with his cattle (including pongal and sugarcane) after bathing them, painting their horns and smearing them with colors, has fun and games that includes the cattle with only some bulls (the strong silent types) getting the privilege of being part of manju virattu or jallikattu and get to tango with some youngsters (the strong and boisterous types). Once the show is over these bulls get more treats and care for the rest of the day, until it is back to the business of ploughing or pulling a cart or impregnating the neighborhood cows. For people divorced from this agrarian lifestyle of mutual interdependence and everyday existence with their cattle, the idea of jallikattu in the abstract maybe distasteful, but is misplaced.
An example of the difference in treatment of "high culture" and "low culture'. Just two weeks ago, 3 software professionals in Chennai were killed in a New year's eve party (a new tradition of late)
.. CHENNAI: The death toll in the stage collapse accident at Hotel Savera on the New Year eve rose to three with two youth, including a woman, succumbing to injuries at a private hospital here on Monday.
A 24-year old software professional Sumith Agnihotri died on Tuesday, hours after the collapse of the stage made of wooden planks on which several people were dancing. Many of them fell into the swimming pool, atop which the stage was constructed.
On Monday, the police also arrested the licensee of the hotel B. V. S. Reddy and produced him before a city court, which released him on bail.
We don't see calls for banning the "new year parties" because apparently they reflect the "civilized culture" of the urban youth compared to the "primitive culture" of the rural youth.
This is very true. And if you are familiar with the practice, you also know that young men (and the not so young) jeopardize their lives and livelihoods in a dubious show of machismo; that they are given incentives of gold coins and television sets, but most walk away with steel cookware and lungis; that corporate sponsors like Pepsi and MediMix sponsor the event; that most of the people who are injured are not participants but spectators who flood the corridor; and that the injuries really gruesome--lost eyes and ears, severe head and chest trauma, and occasional death.
For your viewing pleasure ... from 1959
Kant's ideas are only interesting in that they present a case for respecting souless (i.e. from the Christian perspective) creatures, I don't feel the West has anything to offer Indians regarding the treatment of animals (people yes, but animals an emphatic no). I can tell you that among farming communities, a man who is cruel to his animals is perceived as bad natured and not a good match for matrimony etc. Jallikattu is worth critiquing, but I have to wonder about Newkirk/PETA's priorities. It seems like she wanted an India boondoggle considering how even with its excesses (e.g. enraging the animal with pepper) jallikattu is pretty low on the list of outrages against animals both in the extent of the cruelty and number of animals impacted. I'm more concerned about the public safety angle now that this is drawing larger crowds, it's only a matter of time before some 5 year old gets trampled to death. I am far more concerned about the treatment of Hindu/Buddhist temple elephants, who don't have anything approaching a natural life with exercise or companionship, and would like to see temple patrons in India & SE Asia bring this up with temple boards
Well said. Is the temple elephant phenomenon even on PETA's radar?
Given that a couple of billion animals are probably slaughtered for food each year over the world, most, I'd wager, in less than humane circumstances, focusing on a few dozen bulls who don't even get killed, seems almost perverse from a statistical point of view.
I've heard of local efforts in India & Thailand by practicing Hindus and Buddhists. If PETA or their Westernized Indian local members, who are usually hostile to religion and completely unaware of the local ethical traditions favoring animal rights, it will become performance art without impact
#56 preston,
All true, especially for the high profile jallikattus like the one in Alanganallur. But that is something that can be fixed with regulation rather than a ban, which would stigmatise the whole tradition.
second, i'm not sure this dubious trope of eastern and western moral notions that has come up on this thread is accurate. everywhere in the world you see strains of though that advocates loving and/or ethical treatment of animals (the bishnois, jains, certain strains of buddhists, st. francis of assisi, gandhi, contemporary thinkers like tom regan and peter singer, vegan punk), and everywhere in the world we see terrible treatment of animals. i respectfully disagree with the statement that "the West has anything to offer Indians regarding the treatment of animals," because it seems close-minded to me. I do not sympathize much with the publicity-focused tactics of PETA which have come to symbolize the animal-rights movement in the US, but I feel there is much to learn from people who write about applied ethics.
btw, Kant's ethical framework may be allied with some Christian thought but it derives most force from the concept of doing one's duty (interestingly similar to Hindu concept of "karma"). This duty has little do with religious affiliation or even God, and as he conceives these duties to be categorical imperatives, they are universally applicable and ought to be obeyed, even if they conflict with religion.
I think the comparisons of jallikattu to clubbing etc. are not exactly analogous because the high risk to life and limb for the playing humans are the primary reasons for the excitement of jallikattu, and it is an anticipated, and very high probability event that animals are going to be severely injured in the process. Probably more analogous, if you ignore the very different moral status that society usually confers on harm to humans and animals, is football, given the increasing evidence of severe brain damage to players, or worse, boxing. I am also not especially moved by arguments defending it as acceptable because the sport is "part of rural culture".
That said, while this is a fight that PETA might want to get into, because of their (unseemly) obsession with sensationalism and grandstanding, it is probably not worthwhile because jallikattu is an occasional event, not a daily occurrence or indication of culture, and because PETA's involvement raises the distracting issue of "western hegemony over uncultured natives" that some of the comments brings up. PETA's attentions are probably more profitably directed towards urban areas where there is palpably poor treatment of beasts of burden, which perennially look emaciated and on the verge of dropping dead. (A zero sum argument is probably justifiable here given the limited interest and attention current society pays to animal rights).
It always amuses me how offended people are about Michael Vick's dogfighting, while condoning the horrible abuse of livestock and poultry so that the cost of milk, meat and eggs is $0.50 lesser and they can enjoy delicious veal on their plates, and appreciating the glamor of horse racing, which consistently breeds extremely fragile horses designed for speed, causing a large number of injuries and mercy killings (of course, accompanied by tender eulogies).
It would be interesting if a reporter would ask local women--wives, mothers, and daughters--what they thought of Jallikattu.
sorry, this should read:
"i respectfully disagree with the statement that "the West [does not] has anything to offer Indians regarding the treatment of animals," because it seems close-minded to me."
Paamaran @ 47:
Well said! Banning the event will bring nothing good. It will probably end up in "Don't tell us what to do with our culture" sentiment similar to those days when Hindi was imposed. Today, after 30 years, Hindi is taught as second language in many schools and significant percentage of Tamilians speak Hindi. If the ban argument is renewed in future, people will just ignore it. Enforcing safety measures and providing emergency medical care is a better way to improve the event.
parthiban kanavu @ 57:
Thanks for posting the video link - brought back memories of watching Shivaji in a good old village theater.
53 · Ponniyin Selvan said
maybe you can come to the dark side, where arguments are nuanced, and statements are qualified.
comparing new year parties (highly unlikely that dancing on wooden planks qualifies as "high culture" anyway) to jallikattu was a great call. i'm sure people who think of rural culture as low-culture are very happy when a wooden platform on which villagers are dancing in praise of their local deity collapses. ms. skimpy-dress citygirl and mr. cellphone-brandishing metrosexual urge the government to ban worship and temples, and promptly go back to their PDA in the club.
rahul, you assume that there exist no radical vegans who condemn Michael Vick :) the vast majority of people who do think Vick's acts are reprehensible do not consume foie-gras or go to the Kentucky Derby or wear funny hats at Ascot (they are, however, probably largely meat-eating). A reason why meat-eaters (your everyday meat and potatoes person) might find dogfighting is problematic is that it uses animals for amusement (an avoidable activity), rather than for more "legitimate" uses like food and farm-labor. Also, the cute and cuddly factor wrt dogs makes dog-fighting appear so much more vicious.Kant is not relevant to most of the West. That he is revered by arts grads and some theologians means little to Western popular culture. My childhood American Catholic friends, and yes even the local priest, would question vegetarianism quoting scripture suggesting man's lordship over animals. The belief of Hindus and Buddhists, putting aside Jains for the moment, that killing is karmically damaging has lead to a situation where meat consumption is limited beyond what you would expect based on food economics. We, as probably did pre-Christian West, have a basic folk belief in the ensoulment of animals. What utility does Kant have from this starting point? It's only neuroscientists and some philosophers who warn against anthropormorphizing animals by suggesting they have feelings/emotions (odd since most of them also view man as just machine). The Indian man on the street, assuming that he is not a sociopath, has a belief in karma, that animals are ensouled and does not question animal emotion. So what foreign ideas are needed for an internal critique of jallikattu? I'm not closed minded about the West's virtues, if you read my comment you will see that I say that the West has much to offer India wrto the treatment of humanity
This came out wrong. I don't mean to suggest that if you doubt karma that you are a sociopath. I mean to say that if you doubt the ability of other beings to experience pain, you quite likely are a sociopath.
louiecypher, what did art grads and pomona students ever do to you?
I just see in them my future, ungrateful children brainwashed by V. Prashadian & Priyamvada Gopalian nonsense. That's why I sometimes advocate a period of Indian manifest destiny against countries like Bangladesh and Malaysia. I want my future Bennington/Pomona brats to be inheritors of real, hard earned guilt just like rich white people have
Thanks (Nandri) for the explanation.
(you don't take after your name.... ;-)
My only experience of jallikattu is from watching Tamil movies and my own reaction to the sport has invariably been one of condescension. A whataboringfuckofasport/hero/movie reaction, if you must know. Then again I am city girl from S'pore and that's a perfectly normal reaction from one such as I ! Even my TN village relatives- there are droves of them- haven't been jallikattu enthusiasts and it really has not poppped up on my radar before now. It was truly a surprise to read about the Supreme Court's initial ban on the sport, brought about through the activism of the Animal welfare Board of India (this is presumed from the rather scanty reporting on events prior to the ban). The AWB is a govt setup, headquartered in Chennai.
Now I fully understand there are many reasons to decry jallikattu - some animal cruelty, safety and law and order issues- but like Paamaran, my reading of the matter is that a soft target was picked, a bunch of country yokels who were expected to accept a ban without demur and there seems to have been little done by either the state authorities or the AWB to regulate the sport or educate those involved. It appears arrogant and unfair to apply for an outright ban in the absence of such. The AWB seems a rather strange beast too, in that it applied for a ban on cow slaughter in TN in 2004, a move which seems aimed at christian and muslim minorities in the state. It also seems a somewhat over-zealous censor if this report is to believed :
http://www.behindwoods.com/tamil-movie-news/dec-07-03/16-12-07-mirugam.html
That said, a section of the Indian elite (if the Hindu and NDTV speak for a section of such an elite, another odd thing is that PETA is a very popular charity with quite a few Bollywood/Kollywood stars) appears extremely discomfited by jallikattu and the controversy is definitely homegrown, Newkirk's antic notwithstanding. The dispute is likely to continue but that is not an entirely bad thing. This time round, some stringent animal welfare measures have been ordered by the SC under the watch of the AWB and the villagers have probably learnt not to take anything for granted, not even 400 year old traditions.
I must note that the blogger, Nayagan, seems to have a chip on both shoulders and has been incredibly rude and patronising to a couple of commenters above. What's happening with Sepia mutiny's much vaunted good manners?
#63 portmanteau,
Let me steer the discussion back to the bulls involved in jallikattu and their treatment, since that is what seems to be distasteful to you, although in #49 you also say the following.
Jallikattu is not a religious ritual, it is a traditional rural sport, that happens once a year during Pongal in mid January.
In #51 you say the following.
Let me quote a rhetorical statement from a villager from a news article covering the earlier Supreme Court ban on this practice.
From: Tamil Nadu Villagers Sore at Bull-Run Ban#65 preston,
For what it is worth, here is what one woman thinks, from the same report linked above.
Also from the report btw, the ban was crusaded by Blue Cross of India and the Animal Welfare Board.
Take it up with management--i'm only a guest, not a fixture. Or, you could take the time to write your own post(but Miss Mannering my responses takes far less time!). Whichever route that will best maintain your calm. It would help if the critics wouldn't find it convenient to question my credibility while posing their disagreements--that sort of argumentation is not desirable.
desirable:
"I think this argument is wrong because xxxx."
undesirable:
"I think this argument is wrong and you don't know anything. I don't feel the need to supply anything resembling reason to support my views."
I am glad that more reasonable voices and view points have been raised in the past few posts than the ones raised on the initial post. For the sake of clarity, I would like to look at jallikattu on the following lines:
1. jallikattu as seen from the eyes of the Bulls, or those who strongly empathize with Bulls:.
a) Bulls feel pain and fear. So they should not be subject to Jallikattu as it torments them
b) Bulls feel pain, fear and also aggression. Since aggression is something that they probably enjoy, there is nothing wrong in making them aggressive, if it overrides their pain.
2. jallikattu as seen from the eyes of the people who practice it:
a) It is an ancient Tamil tradition, that is being practiced since time immemorial (or 400 yrs, based on what you want to believe). Others (courts, laws, non Tamils, urbans.. basically anyone who does not agree with it) have no right to impose their laws and moralities on us. Especially when they practice their own discriminations by eating meat, making sacrifices, following caste/race discriminations etc.
b) It is so much fun, and animals are meant to be used by humans. I don't care for the historical/ moral reasons. I do it because it is such a fun thing to do. Those who oppose it do not understand it...
3. jallikattu as seen from the eyes of the people who don't practice it
a) Animals are meant to be used by humans, there is nothing wrong as it is the law of nature for the strong to rule the weak.
b) It is wrong as the animals are tormented. However, human considerations/rights are most important. If they enjoy it, they should be allowed to practice it, as it would be against their tradition/free will to stop them.
c) It is wrong to torment animals, irrespective of traditions or free will. Humans have no right to torment animals. However, people should be told that it is not right, and no restrictions should be placed on their actions, as it could be counter productive.
d) It is wrong to torment animals. Humans will not understand this as they are genetically conditioned to be violent/selfish. A combination of laws/restrictions and education should be used to stop this.
In one of my earlier posts I mentioned that my position on this issue was complex. The reason is that my position is a combination of 1.b and 4.c and 4.d.
19 · Radhika said
I TOTALLY meant that in a sarcastic manner. My bad, people.
paamaran
hear hear.
ponniyin selvan
agreed again.
ingrid should have steered clear of this (t)horny problem. now we have more humps to work around.
Are you saying she's an oxy-moron?
Beware, lc. Karma might bring to you an early middle age filled with mid afternoon departures from your deskjob to hear your children, who are frittering away their twenties hugging whales to save them from Inuit harpoon tips, share their compulsion with a sympathetic listener who offers his services of folded arms, pursed lips, and a well-appointed couch at many hundred dollars an hour.
77 should be "my position is a combination of 1.b and 3.c and 3.d
This is a grey area. The Alanganallur event is celebrated under the auspices of the local temple. In fact all the steel cookware given as prizes, hundreds of pieces, is collected as a temple offering and then redistributed as prizes. Jallikattu itself may not be a religious festival, but religious practice has been incorporated into it.
The other thing to think about is that the big events make a lot of money. They attract corporate sponsorships; participants pay entry fees; vendors of every type of food, drink and trinket descend on the town; VIPs pay for VIP seats in the VIP viewing gallery; tour companies round up the tourists from hotels in Madurai and bus them to the site. It's a huge gathering of people in the countryside and big boon for the rural economy. Alanganallur has a festival committee to deal with all this stuff.
So on one level it's an ancient cultural practice. On another, in some instances, it's a fully modern commercial endeavor.
Jallikattu is celebrated in lots of different places in Tamil Nadu, not always a huge event. In some towns it's just a line of villagers and a few bulls. At Alanganallur, it's the big show--a hundred or so bulls, run from dawn to dusk. They have come from all over southern Tamil Nadu to compete, often walked by their owners.
Nayagan, you replied to Pnniyin selvan who rather neutrally brought up your glaring errors - JVP!- in your post with a nasty insinuation that he is a hindu fundie and followed that up with a far more unpleasant and unwarranted baiting - re the fgm 'question' and an unfounded assertion about him protesting dalits killing cows. A bigger man would have thanked him after correcting the post and would have certainly offered an apology for the subsequent insults.
Then 50 cents comes along with a perfectly sane observation that Newkirk's motives cannot be dismissed out of hand and you are so gratuitously rude with : Do you know what the meaning of the word "apparent" is or are you too lazy to look it up?
It is the sheer unnecessity of it all - from the references about Newkirk 'flapping her gums'(such elegance of expression!) to your incredibly presumptive lecture to me on the rules of proper argument and the use of ad homs (that after namecalling me!) - that irritates the hell out of me. I do hope you don't become a fixture!
This is a bogus argument. Suffering cannot be justified by the fact that we have an economic system that predicates the very existence of these animals purely on the basis that they suffer.
Jallikattu is cruel to bulls, and probably should not exist "in an ideal world" (I