January 22, 2008
Indian Men Dig Mills & Boon TooLiterature
Via the Literary Saloon, an article in the Economic Times on the upcoming formal distribution of Harlequin Mills & Boon romance novels in India. These novels have of course been available in South Asia for many years — but mostly via redistribution and consignment. It’s only now that Harlequin is planning to start distributing its books in India directly:
For most Indian readers, it will come as a surprise that M&B was never actually distributed in India. The novels have been so much a part of our lives, stacked in the hundreds in circulating libraries, borrowed dozens at a time by women (especially in hostels, where the trick was for one girl to borrow them and ten to read them the same night), laid out for sale second hand on pavements.
We’ve seen the special sections in large bookshops, shelves aching with romantic desperation, anguish and fulfillment. We’ve fantasised about the busty heroines and tall dark handsome heroes on the covers. We knew about all the different varieties of novels: nurses, Regency, exotic settings and so on. And exactly how we knew all this we would never say since like most people we would never admit to reading M&B.
But all of this was achieved with Harlequin ever selling directly. “We had some idea about this market, but we never really followed it up,” admits Go. “At the Frankfurt Book Fair, we would meet Indian distributors who would offer to take on consignments and we never bothered beyond that.” (link)
Interestingly, Harlequin is finding that Indian men are just about as likely to be Mills and Boon fans as women:
What he wasn’t expecting were the men, “A substantial percentage of Mills & Boon readership in India is male! You don’t see that in other markets.” Go has speculations on why this is the case. Perhaps it’s just the sheer ubiquity of M&B novels, “Their sisters and mothers are reading them and since they are lying around the men read them too.” (link)
(Come on, desi guys — I know you’ve read a few of these. MoorNam? Floridian? Now is the time to come clean.)
Finally, the author of the piece asks an obvious question on my mind from the start — what about the desi version:
But the interesting question is whether, as with FMCG products, M&B will see the need to Indianise their offering. When even a Kentucky Fried Chicken has to offer a chicken curry thali to survive in India, will M&B be able to continue with its offering of Western-oriented romance fiction? Or is this sort of escapist fiction exactly its appeal? (link)
(“Tall, dark, and handsome” might have to become “fair and handsome” in the Indian context. And maybe they could still use Fabio on the cover, only with Shah Rukh Khan’s hair style?)
Incidentally, I have long wanted to write my own pulpy romance novel to make some quick cash, but I’ve been starved for a good (desi-oriented) plot. Can anyone suggest a good scenario for me to use, as I attempt to enter the world of trash fiction popular romantic fare? (The best I can think of right now is an Indian version of this plot. Hopefully I can come up with a better title than “The Rancher’s Doorstep Baby,” however)
amardeep on January 22, 2008 03:49 PM in Humor, Literature · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Dude... the entire johar/chopra/barjatia oeuvre is harlequin. ve dont need no boon-shoon to tell us how to do the ishq.
Dude... the entire johar/chopra/barjatia oeuvre is harlequin. ve dont need no boon-shoon to tell us how to do the ishq.
I have a feeling, if you ask Karan Johar about his reading habits as a teenager, that he would have some Mills & Boon titles on the list...
Title “Two Pairs of Chuddies”
New Orleans based Desi Lad embarks on a journey back to the motherland with only two pairs of chuddies. Never been there in his life, his folks keep telling him he is American now, forget the old ways we used to have. On his adventure he meets India’s first female F1 racing car champion recognized around the world, who is now embarking on a political career trying to make a better world. Instantly they fall in love but not without consequence, our desi lad is in for a bumpy Rickshaw ride, all while trying to find all sorts of ways to wash his chuddies.
Note: New Orleans because he walks to a timely beat. And if this thing ever gets a movie deal the soundtrack would be immense.
Khoofia's right. In fact I've wondered if M&B stole ideas from circa '80s Bollywood, sort of as covert vengeance for decades of Bappi Lahiri's plagiarism. And ok fine, so I read my sister's Harlequin romance pulp as a teen...a quick walk down 125th St in Harlem tells me I may have set a global trend for young black men :)
There's an irony here. In Barjatya movies, basically everyone is so sweet to each other that everyone will get tooth decay and/or diabetes before the movie ends. However, everyone smiles at each other all the time, like they're all in some toothpaste ad. See? Importance of dental hygiene. Be sweet and show some teeth.
/feel free to rhyme that last line of mine.
My question would be how they quantified the male readership.
This rationale seems like a bit of a stretch, no?: Their sisters and mothers are reading them and since they are lying around the men read them too.
Would a snarkier wit than mine like to take on the following paragraph from the original article? So much fodder here:
Or perhaps it’s because in a culture where information on sex and romance wasn’t exactly in large supply, M&B novels were one available source. Perhaps it’s just that Indian men appreciate the good read that most M&B novels are. One thing’s for sure though, interesting as this segment is, Go will have his hands more than full in supplying Indian women to bother with the male romance market.
I will say up front that I read one, when I was I think 13 or 14. And that too only because my aunt once asked me if I read those and I frowned at her. She told me I was grown up enough to read those. I think it was because I was racking up the library bill at my grandma's during the summer hols I spent there, by running through comics like a monkey left alone in with a fruit basket.
I have read many a M&B. Of course, it was unconsidered uncool to even talk about having read M&B. James Hadley Chase was considered cool - read a few of that too. Got beaten a few times for reading 'kandravai' ( my mother's term) - Malayalam for trash
Anne Mather, Sigh!! Raviraj Lending Library, Madras...
I'll go with the 'romance novels are popular with men in India because of the lack of sexual outlets' theory. Though things may have changed in recent years with the Internet, especially because I'm guessing that men who would be able to read these English-language novels are more likely to have access to the Internet than men who don't. Plus Playboy and Hustler expanded to India, right? No longer do young Indian men/boys have to sneak out to 'blue films' under the guise of studying with Ramu.
I think there are also similarities between Indian mainstream film plots and romance novel plots when it comes to disturbing notions about gender relations, e.g. the 'annoy her until she falls in love with you'/'forceful sex' trope, but I guess the former is from a male perspective and the latter from a female perspective.
I have to agree with the ubiquity of it. As for coming clean, I wonder. I was I think about 12 or so and picked up a M&B my mom was reading,more out of curiosity than anything, I think I survived about 3 chapters and gave up on it, just found it too boring. And yes, I distinctly remember it was considered uncool to read M&B even at that age.
I doubt it. If indeed these novels are popular among the guys (which I am somehow not at all convinced about the truth of this article's assertions - the ET is after all a ToI publication), then I would think a lack of sexual outlet would make Harold Robbins, Nancy Friday or magazines such as Debonair and even Mastram (for those who know) popular, not romantic trash such as M&B.
That would be more of a quintessential servant name than a buddy :-)
Fair enough - I was just throwing a theory out there.
I was actually basing this idea on a cousin of mine who would do this... the 'rascal' in his peer group was a guy named Ramu. :)
Ardy, nothing to feel embarrassed about. It is very impressive that you could last as long as 3 whole chapters at that young age. Or maybe you were just an exceptional speed reader.
@ Mytri (#9)
Wooohooo! A fellow "Raviraj alum" on SM! A 15 year member, I am. He must have changed my membership number half a dozen times! Him and his heavy registers! :D
Oh, it took them only about 55 years to discover the market. My 60 year old cousins were reading Mills and Boon as schoolgirls 45 years ago. Indian guys do read them; about the only peek into a woman's love life for most until their mid-20s.
this is india of 2008. indian women dont read this stuff anymore! ha!
and cookie brown, what indian men are you referring to--indian men whose only peek into a woman's love life until their mid 20s(!!!) is M and B? this is laughable--where do you get this type of misinformation from? this isn't 1950 , folks this is 2008!!! where do you get these ideas from? are you perhaps an ABD whose ideas of modern India are based on storied you hear from your parents and some old relatives? I don't say this to be rude, but i am really curoius where some of you get your ideas of india from--you seem to be living in the past!!
and you think young indians don't have sex(!!!) young people are the same everywhere ---indians just dont talk about it
somewhere that's not the upper class of bombay or delhi.
I never read M&B novels because my mom never had any. I used to read a lot of Femina though, cover to cover
Read about 4 or 5 of them. Popular English fiction in India as you grew up usually meant Enid Blyton's 'Famous Five' and 'Secret Seven' series, Nancy Friday (usually for girls but boys read it too), Hardy Boys, James Hadley Chase, Mills & Boon for the girls, but boys read it too, Harold Robbins, Alistair MacLean, Sidney Shelton and so forth. There were others as well, but these were the most ubiquitous as I remember.
I read the Mills and Boons as and when my sister brought them from the library and it was not considered uncool to read them in the late seventies in small town, South India. All of these were a peek into a foreign culture and our first impressions of American and/or western culture.
extra-marital sex seems to be more common than pre-marital sex - dont know why.
17 · tarta said
I dont' think this is restricted to upper class urbanites either. I heard the most gossip about who is doing it with whom and who is ready to elope with whom regularly in my grand mother's village. Aren't there enough folk songs on what happens in the 'fields'? :)
I think the sexual repression only happens in lower-middle-class-town India. There aren't many options to maintain privacy there. [Although melbournedesi seems to have found enough options to do away with privacy - Would Rahul be kind enough to embed nice links? :) ] Isn't it the middle-class dialogue to say "we don't have money but we have our tradition/pride/name/respectability"?
As for M&B, I read about a dozen books when I was 15. They were sneaked out by my friend, whose aunt had a library of english books, in between Nancy Drew series. It was uncool to read M&B (especially while studying for EAMCET). Reading Jane Austen on the other hand, was very cool.
Couple of years ago, my sister found a place which sells the old editions by weight. So, she reads atleast one each week ! I am not sure if she is willing to buy pricier new ones.
It's the loophole. Mommy and Daddy always tell you "No sex before marriage, beta!" but don't tell you "Only sex with your wife!"
My mom told me that James Hadley Chase used to be big when she was growing up, and a recent movie, Johnny Gadaar (which is supposed to be quite good, from what I have heard) is partially a tribute to the Chase genre of novels. I also recall reading interviews of the "classy" actresses who would be described with something in the vein of, "She loves to read, you know. You can always find her on the sets glued to her copy of Harold Robbins." or something to that effect. As an aside, you can see Sharmila Tagore reading Alistair Maclean (2:28) ("Where Eagles Dare", I think) in the classic song "Mere Sapnon Ki Rani" from Aradhana.
I was in India when Sidney Sheldon died last year. To see the coverage on Indian news media and the number of people interviewed who expressed their heartfelt sorrow at the great loss, you would think it was a pillar of the literary establishment like Philip Roth or Naipaul that had kicked the bucket. The contrast was especially apparent since I first read about the news in the NY Times obituary, which had such classic lines as:
A Sidney Sheldon novel typically contains one or more — usually many more — of these ingredients: shockingly beautiful women, square-jawed heroes and fiendish villains; fame, fortune and intrigue; penthouses, villas and the jet travel these entail; plutonium, diamonds and a touch of botulism; rape, sodomy, murder and suicide; mysterious accidents and mysterious disappearances; an heiress or two; skeletons in lavishly appointed closets; shadowy international cartels, communists and lawyers; globe-trotting ambassadors, supermodels and very bad dogs; forced marriages and amnesia; naked ambition and nakedness in general; a great deal of vengeance; and as The New York Times Book Review described it in 1989, “a pastoral coed nude rubdown with dry leaves.”
All my patronizing drivel aside, the exposure to high quality literature has seen a marked change and a huge leap since liberalization, and there is significant awareness and availability of books that have won awards (Booker etc.), are on the NY Times list, are by well-known authors etc., not just classics and popular bestsellers (Crichton, Forsyth, and so on). The only downside is that books are still expensive for a middle class wage, and libraries are not as plentiful or well-stocked as they are here.
Harlequin is still publishing romance novels? My mom used to read those in the 1980s! She would hide them in some creative places, can't let the kids or husband find them. I found her stash when I was 13 and I read a few of them; when I got to the part about the relations, I would laugh at the flowery descriptions of the anatomy and the act itself.
How about a modern retelling of this classic tale, Amardeep? I used to work at a literary agency that specialized in romance novels. Get a draft together and I'll introduce you to my old boss.
OMG I knew of Harlies by rep but hadnt read them. Just found an excerpt .. This is seamier than I expected and quite delicious actually. I love it. I am desifying it for you but I hope this will incite the youthful ardor and lead you to pen a passage that will melt my screen like garam garam jalebis.
KUNDI!!! :D
How about a modern retelling of this classic tale, Amardeep? I used to work at a literary agency that specialized in romance novels. Get a draft together and I'll introduce you to my old boss.
Harbeer, I don't know -- Gurinder Chadha has kind of ruined the idea of desi adaptations of that novel for a little while. (And Rajiv Menon, the Tamil director, also didn't do anyone any good with his Tamil version, w/Aishwarya Rai)
I like where Khoofia is going with this. I'm thinking minimum work, maximum plagiarism for this project ;-)
Umm did anyone read the short stories in Femina and Savvy in the 80's. Wouldn't those be like the desi M&B?
You seem to have as much a distorted picture, if not more. Its less than in the US (and way more hushed up, on top of that for obvious reasons), but quite significant from what I've seen - (no, I've never been to bombay or delhi and I'm not quite talking about the really rich/stylish/suave/cool/etc. folks either :P)
I think # 23 is partly right though not sure if the lower-middle-class town characterization is completely right either..
To add to M&B (ones that were in our library) - James Hadley Chase, Sidney Sheldon, etc. And yes, I never read any of them..;)
I have not met a single male cousin of mine who read Mills and Boon. Maybe some guys read that crap for kicks, who knows. But the title of the linked article is misleading - MOST INDIAN MEN??? I don't think so. I did catch one of my cousins with Debonairs under his bed. Another cousin of mine(an ABD like me who also lived in India) brought a bunch of Playboy, Mayfairs(I guess he picked them up at the London airport), Penthouses and hid them in one of his drawers.
Now Sidney sheldon and Harold Robbins, I remember those names as being much more popular in India. And I don't think people even watched I Dream of Jeannie over there. Hheh. I browsed through part of one Sheldon book. What a bunch of crap.
I did enjoy the Tintin and Asterix comics. I read a few Tintin while in the US but I learned about Asterix only after I went to India. Oh, another interesting thing I noticed among some of my classmated over there. Some would actually read the comics out loud like they were memorizing something in their textbooks.
khoofia is seriously on to something here.
The only time I'd read a Harlequin romance is if khoofia got a hold of it first with his red pen and turned it ghoofia!
You could call it modern art, my friend. What the hell, Crispin Glover did it.
Take the show on the road, get some underfed/paid actors to do scenes from Harliquoofia- tape it, put it on youtube and don't forget who loves ya'!
you think young indians don't have sex(!!!) young people are the same everywhere ---indians just dont talk about it
Where is Razib and his stats when we need them.
My friends and I were quite partial to Denise Robbins in high school in Desh.
I found a couple of M&B in my aunt's house in India. Something about a Greek Olympic swimmer and a girl in a casino. He was treating her very badly when my (younger, male) cousin walked into the room. 'Oh you found them. which one are you reading.' I yelled at him for interrupting and he flounced out of the room. I have doubts about him. He's still not married and I think he's holding out for Demetri.
:-)
No comparison. I'm just saying if he can get away with it - so can you. The world needs more trippy khoofia thoughts.
Indian men are brought up fed on a steady diet of slushy, soppy, maudlin romances through movies. That coupled with the fact they don't have girlfriends, or any emotional or physical contact with the opposite sex until they get married, makes them as susceptible to mind-numbing romance novels as a high school girl.
Come on, do you really need a plot? Girl, boy, meet, girl hates boy initially, but falls in love with his naughty charm eventually. His parents object. Add a few goons to the mix (led by her brother maybe). In the end bad guys repent, girl marries boy, and vacation in Switzerland.
If they have done market research, maybe they are on to something, but I don't know any desi guys who read Mills & Boon (not that there's anything wrong with that ;) ).
ok - fair enough. i know that it goes on among all classes and that people don't talk about (especially the middle class), it's just that tarta has a history of comments along the line of, 'you ABDs with your foolish outdated notions of india that you must be getting from your parents!' i know a LOT of DBDs who work in IT, and the vast majority of them fit into the 'don't really talk to girls until they start looking for a wife in their mid-20s' mold. it's obvious that things are changing in india, but not quite enough for india to be shining just yet. comments like tarta's just seem to me like they're denying reality - if there isn't a market for these novels, then why are they actively being catered to now? i'd hope the company wouldn't be that stupid, to go after a market that isn't there.
On the subject of sex, my uncle is a neurologist and a lot of his patients are people who have had nervous breakdowns as a result of stress by way of having pre-marital/extramarital affairs.
I've never read Mills&Boon and I've only peeked in a couple of Harlequins. But I shamefacedly admit that Victoria Holt/Jean Plaidy's historical romance novels were pretty well read by me when I was 13 or so. Oh, and there was my favourite, that super-sexy novel about Queen(?) Mathilda of England and Stephen. I don't think I learned much of history from that book though...not that it contained much...
To clarify, he practices in India and his patients are people from all classes.
ok - but it's one of the growing industries that plays a major part in how the indian middle class is expanding, right?
i'd be interested in more scientific studies of indian people's sexual habits. and i don't just mean you, melbourne desi.
Duty calls.
If there are any impressionable 12 or 13 year olds reading this blog, may this elder brother humbly suggest pp. 120, 247-8, 362-3, 366-7, 392, 396-7, and 407 of The Day of the Jackal? Not that I thumbed those pages a million times or anything, but my only excuse is that Moonlight turns even the most civilised man into a primitive.
42 · nala said
with many bidesi desis, they reinforce this idea as a pysycological defense against their own inability to do the same. talk to girls: you mean chat up the girls right?
They come out with reports in Indian mags like India TODAY and others, time to time.
I remember reading one about 3-4 years ago while there that was dedicated to that. Wished I had saved it. And another one that was dedicated to the topic of DIVORCE in India(that word was bolded on the front cover), which also touched upon sexuality and the changing attitudes regarding it. Then there was the issue all about the POWER GODDESS, again, those words bolded on the front cover, that talked about the changing Indian woman and touched upon sexuality as well. That word was bolded on the front cover. And some time ago here at SM I remember reading some findings of a "survey" that was done in India regarding sexuality.
The "dating culture" has yet to reach India outside of Mumbai. Even in Kolkata and New Delhi, where young people do date, it is still frowned upon by many.
The sweet thing about it is that there still is a "courtship" period amongst many of the youngsters who do actually date. I've observed it amongst a few of the urban young people I know and really it appears quite romantic. Wouldn't mind bringing more of that back over here. I'm sure alot of other women feel the same.
In small towns though - forget it. No dating. Only hating.
On school bus trips and outings teenage boys and girls still segregate themselves. I remember seeing one where the girls even crossed the river to "wade" away from the boys.
The commenter who said there are few socially acceptable places and events where males and females can co-mingle freely was right.
while growing up (in desh), for the longest time i thought these books were written by a guy called milson boon.
I'll add even young university going adults in their twenties....
melbourne desi, why are you discussing with PG? It seems perfectly capable of sustaining conversations with itself.
i'm female, so digs at my own virility don't really work here, and a 1.5 gen to boot. this is honestly just my observation. i don't want to get into Pardesi Gori territory, so apologies if I offended anyone... I guess I'll have to dig deeper into the seedy underbelly (pun intended) of India next time I'm there. and yes, by 'talk to girls' I did mean chat up the ammailu.
melbourne desi, so how about the upcoming test? I hope India give Australia a good fight.
And looks like the circus is about to come to town :)
This is why Indian men don't get laid... they spend too much time obsessing over cricket.
p.s. I'm kidding. :)
Not that Mills & Boon are much better...
melbourne desi as guest blogger? :P
Rahul:
Wasn't the word "alabaster" mentioned somewhere thereabouts?
Speaking for myself, I'd probably recommend page 28 of The Godfather.
You are a man after my own heart, pingpong. Viens, primitif.
as a lad of thirteen or so I remember us getting this book in the mail addressed to mum. it was suitably wrapped in brown paper and tied around with some string. Of course i had to open it. It was a book of common Q&A on sex, as authored by Dr Prakash Kothari. I attributed my mum's interest in it to be due to her medical profession *ppthh obviously* and had a very enlightening read - but I had the good sense to wrap and tie it up back again and leave it on the side table before she got back. I thought she would use it in her consultation and would join other reference books in her book shelf. not quite... but the point is - there is interest in the SaiKs, and muchly so, out there. Dr Kothari himself has been recognized as International Man of Sex [really] in Venezuela.
khoofia - for some reason i always thought you were female.
Telugu magazines (not the ones on glossy paper, but more like Reader's Digest ones) have similar stories I think. I've tried to read them in the past but I'm not good enough, but the cartoon images of the women with their saris slipping to show humongous breasts were enough for me to understand what they were about...
you're right PG, we're just a bunch of prudes who are allergic to BS.
what, Kunal Kapoor from Rang De Basanti won't do?
Oh I see... so it's not the Indian men, but the Indian men's parents, that are the problem.
Dead parents? That sounds kinky, Pardesi Aghori.
Tarta,
yeah, yeah, India is shining, all the young folks have pre-marital sex, we're really advanced now, don't you know, everything is available here, no need to go abroad etc. etc. etc.? I've heard this kind of insecure, hipper than thou statements from upper-class young Indians directed towards overseas Indians so, so, so many times over the years.
Speaking only for myself, find it the height of immature pride in one's country to use the incidence of pre-marital sex amongst the upper middle-classes as some kind of index of progress. This shallow and ludicrous trope was probably started in the 1980's by the pulp fiction writer, Shobha De, who's notion of progressiveness (imposed from above, naturally) was to assert that we Indians were all screwing around too, ala some Harold Robbins novel. India Today and other magazines have exploited the latent prurient interest amongst the newly urbanizing and upwardly mobile lower middle-class to redefine pre-marital sex in their minds as a form of urbanity and sophistication.
And speaking of my being "perhaps an ABD " as you put it... I'm South Delhi born and bred and unambiguously belong to that westernized upper-class of which I speak.
Yeah, v true.
I think what's be good for India is not more sex but less hypocrisy wrt sex. A we-do-ti-don't-tal-abt-it attitude is worse than not doing it at all.
read my comments carefully --did i say at any point that young people having sex is "progress" or "good" or that it means that "india is shining"--it doesn't meet my definition of progress but it is happening; so I am just stating my own observations and and certainly dont consider this to be a yardstick of pride by any means!
I was just incredulous at the notions that people have that young indians' don't have sex, much less interact with the opposite sex till they are married. I speak from the perspective of someone who works in a government hospital (where there is only the occasional upper class patient but usually a wide cross section) and sees how busy the MTP clinics are---so, it happens, its just not talked about--so i think i raise a valid point when i say that people just don't admit to these things (and will always keep it a closely guarded secret) because it is still somewhat "taboo" to talk about these things openly.
of course, there are probably those IT types who have their noses buried in their books (perhaps an M and B thrown in) and circuits --but then maybe this is just the geek stereotype playing true to type?
Why is it not good? Doesn't the ability of young desis to insert cylindrical pegs into round holes indicate the development of mechanical skills, and allow them to prove that desis, and by extension, DBDs are not underfed, awkward, four-eyed nerds whose noses are always buried in their books?
tarta has a history of comments along the line of, 'you ABDs with your foolish outdated notions of india that you must be getting from your parents!'
nala, i think you actually have a fair point when you say that some of my comments come across this way--it is not my intent to criticize ABDs. but i have to admit, sometimes the ABD perspective does seem to be very limited and outdated,--and i wonder where the notions come from and tend to be outspoken about that-but, yeah, i hope no ABDs take this as criticism!!!
...whose not who's...
Why is it not good? Doesn't the ability of young desis to insert cylindrical pegs into round holes indicate the development of mechanical skills, and allow them to prove that desis, and by extension, DBDs are not underfed, awkward, four-eyed nerds whose noses are always buried in their books?
to sm intern : so does rahul's comment qualify as an abusive comment-- ananti DBD comment? it doesn't really seem to be funny either. just asking.
tarta - Rahul is being sarcastic in his comment. and i apologize for generalizing based on my experience... maybe i was too young to catch on to all the energizer bunny-like action going on among the indian middle class when i lived there. but even in subsequent months-long stays in different places i haven't found that it is as common among young people as you say. obviously it happens since there are young women getting abortions as you say, but to what extent?
Rahul - you say this as if there's something wrong with being an underfed, awkward, four-eyed nerd whose nose is always buried in books. BTW, C++ is sexy, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.
i mentioned i have knowledge of MTP clinics but i think that perhaps for me to say anything more like numbers of patients etc might be a violation of my ethics--not trying to sound self righteous or anything, but not sure that i should start throwing about this type of info that i happen to be privy to ---slippery slope once i start saying more
nala, do you think a month long stay is enough for people to open up to you about a taboo topic? you'll be surprised--you think its the urbanized westernized kids in mumbai and delhi ---thats a stereotype that you have; i am not saying that people are bed hopping or that it is rampant and people are thinking of nothing else but sex--nothing like that; i am just saying that young people will act like young people across all sections of society, indian society is simply not the victorian society that some people seem to say in their comments --this really is 2008 and the world is a much smaller place.
It certainly is. For one, it lets you show your private parts to your friends. The language is in a class of its own, but some people may feel like they're being treated like objects.
The best part is, you don't even have to be in a sophisticated environment (like upper class Mumbai & Delhi) to use it.
(I don't know if that's very funny or even a little bit funny, but I'm just going with what I know... my knowledge of programming languages is limited, despite being a south Indian)
not a month long stay... several months-long stays, over the years, in different areas of india. some of the times i was working on various projects, and people certainly opened up to me about other topics (their debts, their good-for-nothing children, and so on... though i guess those aren't taboo).
that's too bad. :P
nala --all indian parents talk about their kids, good for nothing or otherwise! :)
Some of the most energetic pillow fights I have had were in India.
I take exception to anybody who doesn't let me make my member public.
I will try to be funnier next time. Can't promise though.
plastic, er, plastic.71 · cookiebrown said
I knew a guy once, who refused to marry if she was raised in any other part of Delhi :)
sorry, that was meant to read:
I knew a guy once, who refused to marry a woman who was raised in any other part of Delhi :)
I did not, unfortunately, know any dudes who looked like ladies, growing up.
Indian women flower after marriage? Then when do they get deflowered? Does the revirginization theory school of thought have more adherents than previously supposed?
hmm, port wasn't lying.
Apparently one of the names that M&B publishes under is 'Mira'... sounds brown to me.
*Just becuz ;-).
try it the other way around, tarta:
"but i have to admit, sometimes the DBD perspective does seem to be very limited and outdated,--and i wonder where the notions come from and tend to be outspoken about that-but, yeah, i hope no DBDs take this as criticism!!!"
...oh, the last part doesn´t fool you either?
#78 Melbourne Desi : What exactly do you mean by "pro-abortion"? Certainly not abortion-on-demand, which Indian law does not make legal.
http://pewforum.org/docs/index.php?DocID=167
suggests that Indian law dodges the issue as do many other countries. My abortionist cousin, who worked a lifetime in "family planning" clinics in the poor sections of several cities, tells me that doctors routinely fill out forms claiming endangerment to mother or fetus, and that the government does not ask questions. This is not quite "pro-abortion laws since 1971".
Suggested reading (I found it enlightening) -- "Intimate Relations : Exploring Indian Sexuality", Sudhir Kakar, Penguin Books, 1990
I was just incredulous at the notions that people have that young indians' don't have sex, much less interact with the opposite sex till they are married.
I believed that for a really long time, and it was totally because of my parents. It's embarrassing in retrospect, but I really had no way of knowing otherwise. "Only American kids do bad things like date when they're in high school and have premarital sex. Indian kids are good kids and always wait till marriage!" etc. But granted, we moved from India when I was a baby and I've only been back twice for 2- and 3-week visits, and until fairly recently, the only DBD relative around my age that I was at all close to was my really sweet cousin who's rather naive about the world, and who once asked me (in hushed tones of incredulity), "So...do you have...a boyfriend?" When I asked him if he had a girlfriend, he sounded shocked by the prospect.
(Now I'm in regular touch with more distant family who's closer in age and mentality to me, so I've learned a lot, for sure. And reading SM has taught me a ton.)
And I only found out in the last couple of years, when my parents expressed concern over the fact that I haven't brought home any boys yet, that my dad would bring girls home all the time when he was my age, to the point that his parents were concerned that he'd never be serious about anyone. And one girl even turned him down because he wasn't ready to sleep with her. (But that gets into major squick territory, thinking about my parents in that context.)
From your link - Abortion is available through the 20th week of pregnancy to save a woman's life, to protect her physical or mental health, in cases of rape or fetal abnormality and for social or economic reasons - the last reason is what I meant by 'abortion on demand'
lol, i always wanted to say that...
melbourne desi, I think you should stop patronizing these clinics, and instead patronize one of these clinics. It will help geneticists a thousand years from now explain the worldwide Lemurian infusion into the Y-chromosome in this time of burgeoning Indian presence on the global scene.
Tom Friedman was right. The world is indeed flat. On their back, it seems.
not by choice, I assure you. thanks for the link but it only collects DNA - does not provide any perks during collection.The British Punjabi writer Roop Dhillon wrote Bharind simultaneuosly in English and Punjabi. Neither was an exact word for word rendering. Yest the meaninsg were the same. When asked, he responded that the spirit was more important, as emotional context could otherwise get lost in a literal translation. For example in Neela Noor ਨੀਲਾ ਨੂਰ He said Dusray dee thali vich ladoo sonhnaa lagda, but ranslated it in NEglish as Grass is greener on the other side.