If she indeed did it, it is disgusting and she should fess up. But so far, all we have is Drudge's eagerly making his statement, with no evidence to back it up (despite the fact that he ostensibly has an email which he could publicize), Obama and his guys immediately being shocked, SHOCKED that Clinton would stoop to pettiness with somebody as noble as them, and the Clinton campaign officially denying it. Guess which one Drudge didn't report?

If you look at the picture of the post before this one, by Anna. There is a picture of man in turban in the background behind the premier of Ontario.

In Canada you can find pictures of many polictians wearing turbans at sikh events.

I thought the campaign declined to deny that they were involved.

The later statement you quoted reads like a non-denial:

Asked if the campaign had any role, Wolfson said, "No, not to my knowledge...I've never seen that picture before. I'm not aware that anyone else here has. I'm not aware that anyone here has circulated this e-mail."

OMG - he’s wearing a turban! He’s a mooo-salim! Oooooga Booooga! Oooooga Booooga!

I think you've accurately summed up the thought process of the majority of white americans. But the clintons know this, they know of the power of images. If Obama blasts past this, HRC might as well say, C5, you've sunk my battleship.

From earlier today:

1) The Clinton campaign is accused of circulating a photo of Barack Obama wearing Somali garb on a visit to Africa, and declines to deny that someone on the campaign may have been responsible.
2) The Clinton campaign says that, regardless, there's nothing wrong with Obama's wearing that clothing, and that it's absurd to call it "divisive."
3) On "Morning Joe," Hillary supporter Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones says that the Clinton campaign would not "condone" the circulation of such a photo, and that "I would not personally have done it." But she adds,
4) "I have no shame, or no problem, with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, in the clothing of his country." [itals mine] For any dim enough to have missed her implication, seconds later she brings up peoples' right to wear "the clothing of their nation" yet one more time. [Link]

Agree with Rahul here.
Clinton campaign has denied it and if Obama's team thinks that there is nothing wrong with the pic ( at least I don't see anything wrong) then why are they so SHOCKED ?

But the Clinton campaign hasn't denied it. They've hedged the issue.

And you honestly don't see the intent of the shot?

On the one hand, it seems like a very underhanded tactic. Neither candidate has really openly addressed the issue of race/gender, allowing their followers free to interpret vague slogans of 'change' and 'making history'.
Maybe the Clinton camp hoped this photo would ignite the inherent xenophobia of American voters (much like early jokes about his name).
On the other hand, Obama himself has downplayed the significance of race and nationality, his outrage over this photo seems a bit overblown.
He's just a man in a turban, people. Relax.

Ennis, I'm with you 100% on this one.

Following up on Ennis's comment in #5, video of Tubbs-Jones's comment here. Pretty hard to give the Clinton campaign the benefit of doubt after this (and after the repeated incidents leading up to South Carolina).

Like AR said - He is just a man in a turban. That's exactly how I look at it. I do not see anything wrong with that pic.
I do think that Obama's campaign is overreacting and making the issue even worse. If they treat this as "just another pic with the locals" and not react like "how could they release this photo? " then people won't look at it in the wrong way.

Sometimes the way you react can worsen the issue at hand. Don't you thin?

I meant - think and not thin :)

If running a campaign is a predictor of presidential performance, I am glad HRC is losing. What a mess!

In response, Wonkette posted a list of images of the Clintons dressed in scary "race clothing" (Wonkette's term, not mine).

The captions are hilarious.

10 · Chetna Like AR said - He is just a man in a turban. That's exactly how I look at it. I do not see anything wrong with that pic. I do think that Obama's campaign is overreacting and making the issue even worse.

I see what you mean, and it's correct in an objective sense, but I think it's a bit naive of an analysis if applied across the entire US population, where, ummmm--not everyone is objective--I'm more with HMF (!) here in comment #4--I think HRC knows exactly what she's doing (unfortunately).

But the Clinton campaign hasn't denied it. They've hedged the issue.

Exactly, in a way it's a no-win situation for Obama, because if he sits idly by and doesn't respond at all, it simply allows the subtext of a dark skinned man wearing a turban being threatening to persist, but if he calls Clinton out for it, the clinton campaign simply shrugs their shoulders and says, "What? why would this be a problem? You don't trust Americans to differentiate between you in a turban and a bad brown person in a turban? You want to lead this country but think it's full of racists?"

Yes, the Clinton campaign did not categorically deny this. They just said that it was not directed by the campaign and that they have too many people on the campaign to control each and every such thing. Plus, they have even insinuated that Obama is playing the victim card by making a big issue of this to get votes.

Plus Clinton's 'Shame on you Obama, outburst day before also seemed to reek of desperation.

On the one hand, it seems like a very underhanded tactic. Neither candidate has really openly addressed the issue of race/gender

The Clintons did try to use race before in SC but it backfired there. I think Obama is doing the right thing from a strategic POV by not getting into racial aspects, there is too much of a danger of going the Jesse Jackson way there.

First try to paint Obama as the "black candidate" (before South Carolina primaries)
now as the "foreign candidate" weird name, weird ethnic clothes, allusions about his name,
religion.(week before Texas and Ohio primaries)
I see a pattern here.

How low will Hillary's campaign stoop before she concedes?

While we're at it, let's not forget the Mccain-black child whisper/rumor as well...

I thought the campaign declined to deny that they were involved.

He is saying that the campaign was completely uninvolved:
"If you have any original reporting to suggest that this campaign was circulating this e-mail, please let me know."
"We've been very clear that we're not aware of it," he added. "Obviously the campaign didn't sanction it, and don't know anything about it."

At this point, Drudge should out whomever sent it to him, if it is indeed a Hillary guy. The image was clearly sent out with malicious intent by whomever did it, but so far, Drudge is the only one saying it is HRC's guys. That said, I will make two points:

1. HRC should have clearly said that indicating that Obama is some sort of evil agent because of this costume is disgusting, and that they don't condone it.
2. The day Drudge is unquestioningly believed over Clinton by the average Democrat, she has a serious credibility problem. And she has, even by a kind accounting, at least partially brought it upon herself.

Clinton in a turban. I was looking around, downloaded that image, and then couldn't figure out where I'd found it. Sorry.

If running a campaign is a predictor of presidential performance, I am glad HRC is losing. What a mess!

In that case, I guess that dismisses 'almost gone bankrupt at one point' John McCain too.

Rahul, let's leave aside for now the question of where the picture came from. Let's assume for the sake of argument it did not come from anyone associated with the Clinton campaign. Now watch Rep. Tubbs-Jones's comment, which I linked to above and which Ennis quoted above. Even if you assume the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with the picture getting out there, do you really think what she said is an appropriate way to discuss the picture?

Plus Clinton's 'Shame on you Obama, outburst day before also seemed to reek of desperation.

There was nothing wrong with that specific "outburst", she was taking him on about his misrepresentation of her positions in flyers, but of course, Obama is an honorable man.

I think you've accurately summed up the thought process of the majority of white americans.

So most white americans all think alike?

Now watch Rep. Tubbs-Jones's comment, which I linked to above and which Ennis quoted above. Even if you assume the Clinton campaign had nothing to do with the picture getting out there, do you really think what she said is an appropriate way to discuss the picture?

No, it absolutely is not. But why is that HRC's fault? Sounds similar to this article on Drudge :)

Drudge is not a right-wing opinionmaker like malkin or limbaugh. he's also not unhinged and doesn't have some extreme right wing agenda. he prints many favorable things abouts dems, including HRC with whom he has a close relationship as new york mag reported. in fact, a ucla study concluded that drudge actually leans left.

what he really does is print rumors that the msm withholds, suing his many contacts in the media. he does dirty news like bill clintons black baby but always reports if the rumor turns out to be false.

24 · Suki Dillon So most white americans all think alike?

Suki,
I usually favor you over HMF, but all HMF did here was surmise that "a majority" of white Americans are a trifle indisposed towards people with turbans. That seems kind of true to me, and I'm not coming from some sort of left-wing agenda--it just seems, well, true.

Obama is an honorable man.

If Obama's "Hope" and "Change" message is strong then no need to get SHOCKED by a simple photo. Right? Why be so afraid?

If Obama's "Hope" and "Change" message is strong then no need to get SHOCKED by a simple photo. Right? Why be so afraid?

Yesterday I was on a plane flight and the white guy in the seat adjacent was reading a flight manual for a commercial pilot's license.

How's this - you and I get on a plane together, and I'll hand you a flight manual for a commercial jet somewhere along the line and let's see which of us gets to liveblog gitmo.

17 · Yogi said

First try to paint Obama as the "black candidate" (before South Carolina primaries)
now as the "foreign candidate" weird name, weird ethnic clothes, allusions about his name,
religion.(week before Texas and Ohio primaries)
I see a pattern here.

yogi: the msm didn't report this but this line of argument started in iowa. 3 clinton staffers spread the madrasa rumor, clintons co-chair in NH called obama a drug dealer, and bob kerrey followed thru with by calling obama a stealth islamic candidate while referring to him as barrack hussein obama.

Rahul sez:

No, it absolutely is not. But why is that HRC's fault?

Are you asking that for real? Because she is one of HRC's campaign's national co-chairs, and prominent national surrogate.

Oh, for pete's sake! So, if Hilary gets elected. she won't cover (not hijab, just a scarf) when she goes to Pakistan or Afghanistan? Does this mean tartans are out? No cheom songs? God help us if she should take flamenco lessons. or gasp! Cuban salsa lessons. My god, have we no self-imposed cultural boundaries? Excuse me, the chai b'nana is boiling over, the pasta is not ascuita enough, and who knows when the kima will be done. Well, doesn't matter that much, as an Amercun, I should be slurping beer and watching Oprah, not eating my roots.

interestingly, obama continues to surge in the face of these assaults. from iowa, to SC, to Ohio, he's handled this brilliantly...threading the thin line between countering immediately (in great contrast to john kerry) but not hysterically a la jesse jackson.

its an open secret that bubba was trying to turn obaama into a tawana brawley case in SC, calling him a kid, not boy just kid, knowing it would go over the head of most whites but hoping obama would react hysterically. he reacted calmly but forcefully, winning praise from the likes of Michelle malkin and rush Limbaugh, which i found amusing as many liberal blogggers hid under the table.

Better ground game, better speeches, fundraising, he is beating the inevitable one at her own game.

He is an amazing politician, there's no doubt about that.

31 · Manju

bob kerrey followed thru with by calling obama a stealth islamic candidate

Obama's clearly not a Muslim from a post-Enlightenment "freedom of religion" perspective, but from a traditional Islamic perspective, isn't he in fact a Muslim (or an apostate) b/c his father's a Muslim??

25 · Rahul said

No, it absolutely is not. But why is that HRC's fault?

well, in a way its not. bush the 1st knew nothing of willie horton and bush II had nothing to do with the swift boats. that the way things work. there's always plausible denial and at the end of the day the only thing the candidate can do is condemn it and try to create a culture where it'll happen less. clinton fails on both points. repeatedly.

36 · rob said

Obama's clearly not a Muslim from a post-Enlightenment "freedom of religion" perspective, but from a traditional Islamic perspective, isn't he in fact a Muslim (or an apostate) b/c his father's a Muslim??

well, rob, i guess here in america we go post-enlightenment. history is not destiny, unless you're stephanie tubbs jones.

38 · Manju

I'm down with the Enlightenment, just thought that that's an interesting point about what some people around the globe may be thinking.

Bush and the Arabs bhai bhai

More pictures of world leaders in "foreign" garb. Yes, a few turbans are featured.

The US Ambassador to Kenya quietly let it be known that he occasionally dons locally worn traditional clothing similar to what Obama is seen wearing when he visits tribal areas. The ambassador pointed out that the gesture has no religious significance but is only meant to show respect and solidarity with the hosts.

But count on at least some American voters squirming at the image of a swarthy man in a strange outfit. Perhaps not quite Dukakis in tank, but close. And many of them would be the same ones who swooned over G.W. Bush's "Mission Accomplished" flight suit.

The alternative title of this post is "Shame On You Hillary," Clinton's battle cry over the weekend. But then although the Obama supporters are supposed to have drunk the Kool Aid, it is the Clintonites who are going nuts!

But count on at least some American voters squirming at the image of a swarthy man in a strange outfit

pray tell me if i am misreading the discussion here.

Personally I don't think this is going to affect voters to "swing" his way. I think this will make an impact on ignorant people who have already made up their mind about him.

I think you've accurately summed up the thought process of the majority of white americans.

More precisely all white american democrats. We are in the primary season aren't we?

42 · khoofia but by expressing that very thought, you've just demonstrated that obama is 'swarthy' and wearing a 'strange outfit'. if one was herself colorblind this thought would never have arisen.

pray tell me if i am misreading the discussion here.

I think your interpretation is off--reading into the photo that it will hurt Obama politically says nothing about the views of the "reader"--instead, the reader is making a prediction about how voters as a group are likely to (in some measure) react--it's like Keynes' beauty-contest description of equity prices..

Y'know, you'd think a black man with a name that reminds Americans simultaneously of Saddam and Bin Laden would be a little susceptible to some xenophobia or racism. But so far, nada. In fact, scratch nada. Pictures come out meant to look like he's going to the sucide bombers ball, and what happens, he opens a freakin' double digit lead. WTF?

Personally I don't think this is going to affect voters to "swing" his way. I think this will make an impact on ignorant people who have already made up their mind about him.

I read this as directed at Latino voters. He's still largely an unknown to them, and they can be pretty xenophobic and Islamophobic.

" -- that the 'other' is likely to be not as magnanimous or as worldly wise as the self."

Do you live in the real world Khoofia? At least three of my middle class, well traveled Republican neighbors (lovely ladies, all) have asked me if Obama is "really" a Muslim. My husband has been asked the same question in his work place. They probably ask us because of our "swarthy" complexion and the "strange" outfit we (at least, I) put on occasionally.

But I do agree with you in a way. Had I been an Obama adviser, I would have advised him to come out and say, "So bloody what?"

47 · Ennis I read this as directed at Latino voters. He's still largely an unknown to them, and they can be pretty xenophobic and Islamophobic.

Well, you can't say that Spanish-culture affiliated people are entirely without grounds for holding a bit of concern about (certain strands of) Islam now, can you?? (Think El Cid then or Madrid bombings now!)

When Prince Philip returned to jolly old ingLAnd from a trip to Papua New Guinea, he showed up at breakfast the next day sporting a giant koteka, a gift from his hosts. The queen was not amused.

"I read this as directed at Latino voters. He's still largely an unknown to them, and they can be pretty xenophobic and Islamophobic. "

You left out turbanophobic and bedsheetophobic.

50 · khoofia said

When Prince Philip returned to jolly old ingLAnd from a trip to Papua New Guinea, he showed up at breakfast the next day sporting a giant koteka, a gift from his hosts.

rival nobles with claims to the throne should've circulated the photos. royal poltics needs to get up to date.

So Obama goes to Africa. Takes photos of himself in an african costume. And somehow Hillary is to blame. Twisted Yankee logic.

Obama's clearly not a Muslim from a post-Enlightenment "freedom of religion" perspective, but from a traditional Islamic perspective, isn't he in fact a Muslim (or an apostate) b/c his father's a Muslim??

Except that his father's a Catholic. And his grandfather appears to have been the first Muslim in the family, after trying out Christianity. (See Krugman's piece in the NYT from this weekend.) I would say his time in Indonesia is more significant with regards to his relationship to Islam than is his father's background.

53 · bulbul said

And somehow Hillary is to blame.

It's a vast left wing conspiracy!

48 · Ruchira said

Had I been an Obama adviser, I would have advised him to come out and say, "So bloody what?"

How about; "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

54 · AG Except that his father's a Catholic.

Yeah, I'm not sure that that's entirely a true statement (i.e., was father Catholic for his whole life?)--I've read otherwise (I will look around for authoritative links). Haha, keep in mind that I'm with the post-Enlightenment view that Obama is not a Muslim. I'm just curious about what people in say Saudi think about it.

57 · rob said

I'm just curious about what people in say Saudi think about it.

or edison

58 · Manju or edison

LOL!!! OK, fair enough!

Yeah, on this question of whether Obama's father is a Muslim, I find a lot of variety on the Internet, but nothing I would feel comfortable linking to (!). I'm probably missing a lot--is there any legitimate resolution of this (mildly interesting) question?

You can find Billary's photographs in pagdi and duppatta and publicize them but a white amongst the brown does not have the same effect as Obama in a turban amongst the brown/black.
What convinced me of her duplicity was the statement "with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, in the clothing of his country".

to any obama supporters in philly, kal penn is hosting a philadelphia event on thursday.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGg5QL

i'm sure kal penn won't mind if we rock our turbans ;) one of which he will be wearing proudly in harold & kumar 2!!

2 · Suki Dillon said

If you look at the picture of the post before this one, by Anna. There is a picture of man in turban in the background behind the premier of Ontario.

In Canada you can find pictures of many polictians wearing turbans at sikh events.

Dude, in Canada, you'll find politicians that wear turbans on a daily basis.

He's Mr. Clean. I don't think anything will stick to him because he's so different from HRC and the Republican front runner John McCain.

And I don't know if the Repubs will recycle this photo again during the general election, that is if McCain remembers the South Carolina ads Karl Rove put out, but even if they do, he'll get by because people are sick of the Republicans after 8 years of Bush.

46 · Manju said

Y'know, you'd think a black man with a name that reminds Americans simultaneously of Saddam and Bin Laden would be a little susceptible to some xenophobia or racism. But so far, nada. In fact, scratch nada. Pictures come out meant to look like he's going to the sucide bombers ball, and what happens, he opens a freakin' double digit lead. WTF?

You mean like this.

Here's how hillary should've handled some of the comments coming from her campaign.

but all HMF did here was surmise that "a majority" of white Americans are a trifle indisposed towards people with turbans. That seems kind of true to me, and I'm not coming from some sort of left-wing agenda--it just seems, well, true.

I'm glad you were able to overcome your internal biases, and actually read the words in the text message rather than the username. And of course, it's kind of true, namely because, it is true.

67 · HMF

And of course, it's kind of true, namely because, it is true.

Yes, right!

That said, even though Muslims are (unfairly) viewed somewhat poorly by most Americans, it doesn't mean that most (not all, but--seriously, most) Muslims don't view a Hindu like me as a kuffar dog (even though we make a lot more money than them in the US--woot, woot, f-ckin' woot to the n'th degree with a cherry on top! (esp. to the ones that think they're better than me b/c they're lighter-skinned--hahahahaha to the bank--thanks, dads!!)).

it would be interesting to see how american attitudes toward muslims break down due to race or ethnicity. its entirely possible, as ennis points out, that the picture was aimed at the latino vote in TX.

there's been some press about how skittish many asians and latinos are in voting for obama (due to his race) in comparison to whites. wouldn't it be ironic if at the very time whites are prepared to deliver a black president, asians and latinos say no.

barack just knocked the Farrakhan question out of the park in the debate, denouncing and rejecting the vile anti-Semite and racist as Clinton attempted to corner him...bringing the crowd to their feet. nice. much better than his lame che response. with performances like that, obmama republicans may deliver him.

70 · Manju wouldn't it be ironic if at the very time whites are prepared to deliver a black president, asians and latinos say no.

Not really ironic, no--white Americans who are not "left out" of the modern world (like poor rural whites, for example) are pretty "modern" (if, indeed, not definitive of modern, along withe Euro and Japanese urbanites) so--, nor surprising that they're less likely to vote on traditional grounds--my parents, for example, are way more into Indian stuff (even though they're also more integrated into US culture than some desis) than your average, say, Italian-American at their SES level is into traditional Italian culture (the Italian-American is more likely to be into trans-national 'modern' culture).

say, Italian-American at their SES level is into traditional Italian culture (the Italian-American is more likely to be into trans-national 'modern' culture).

absolutely, thats the very function of white privilege. Discarrd your culture, assume whiteness and get rewarded for it.

denouncing and rejecting the vile anti-Semite and racist as Clinton attempted

Well, I don't know what debate you were watching, but he denounced and rejected his clearly anti-semitic rhetoric, but did not denounce him as a human being, in fact he said Min. Farrakhan was free to say whatever he wants about him. (Does free speech only apply to Christians yelling merry christmas defending their slowly dwindling religious holiday?) And yes, he made Hillary look like a fool by pointing out the stupidity of her verbal nitpicking between "reject" and "denounce"

oh, i just saw clinton's hot semi-desi butlerette on msnbc

Ok, you gotta admit that Bill looks much better in turban than Obama. The difference might be due to quality of those pictures :)

I have no shame, or no problem, with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, in the clothing of his country." [itals mine] For any dim enough to have missed her implication, seconds later she brings up peoples' right to wear "the clothing of their nation" yet one more time

Releasing the pic was probably not as offensive as the follow up statements.

Desperation makes you do crazy things!

I think my favorite comment in the last week was HRC referring to Obama's NAFTA comments (which are misleading) as "Rovean." Hi pot, it's kettle.

I read this as directed at Latino voters. He's still largely an unknown to them, and they can be pretty xenophobic and Islamophobic.

Manju, despite Obama's performance, I've definitely met a fair share of voters who say they won't vote for him because they think he's going to "infiltrate and take over from the inside" (I kid you not).

rob, I think Obama's grandfather converted to Islam, his father (raised Muslim) converted to Catholicism, and Obama III chose Christianity as well. I think the polygamy throws people off, but it's pretty common regardless of religious affiliation in Nyanza/Western.

I have no shame, or no problem, with people looking at Barack Obama in his native clothing, in the clothing of his country." [itals mine] For any dim enough to have missed her implication, seconds later she brings up peoples' right to wear "the clothing of their nation" yet one more time

Wow - this is pretty serious stuff. Not only is she evil but she has her geography wrong. Obama's father is from Kenya not Somalia. All

Last time I checked, Obama's country was the U.S., so it sounds like her geography is off by at least a hemisphere.

Yes, somebody needs to drive some sense into her. She had no business saying what she did.

Obama was pretty awesome in the debate. He more than held his own all through, and given that he holds the advantage, it seems like Hillary can forget about measuring the drapes for the Oval Office, it's curtains for her.

Last time I checked, Obama's country was the U.S., so it sounds like her geography is off by at least a hemisphere

Bloody oath. The equator bisects Kenya - so not sure if the Hemisphere commnet is valid. If Obama is not American, I shudder for other immigrant children including all of SM. Hence my fury at the slander.

revisting the first SM thread on obmana is very entertaining at this time.

7 · Ennis said

But the Clinton campaign hasn't denied it. They've hedged the issue.

With all due respect, I think you're trying to make something out of very little. Every presidential campaign. All it is, is an acknowledgement of the possibility that a staff member could have acted independently outside of the campaign. So, to deny something when you can't say you're sure isn't a wise move, because if it DOES turn out a staffer leaked the photo, your denial will come back to haunt you. Every serious presidential campaign has thousands of staffers. Considering that vetting each one is damn nigh impossible, of course there may be one who would do something misguided while acting on their own. The implication that somehow this photo incident was devised or approved of by Hillary is ridiculous.

It's been said several times, and it bears repeating: THIS IS DRUDGE! If you're going to take his word for something, you'd better make doubly sure you confirm something before accepting it. And a non-denial denial is not confirmation. If this were sneaky right-wingers attributing something to Clinton in order to make both candidates look bad, it would hardly be the first time in the history of politics that such a maneuver has happened.

There are two hemispheric divides -- north/south and east/west. I

Well, I don't know what debate you were watching, but he denounced and rejected his clearly anti-semitic rhetoric, but did not denounce him as a human being

Obama: "I have been very clear in my denunciations of him..."

With all due respect, I think you're trying to make something out of very little. Every presidential campaign. All it is, is an acknowledgement of the possibility that a staff member could have acted independently outside of the campaign. So, to deny something when you can't say you're sure isn't a wise move, because if it DOES turn out a staffer leaked the photo, your denial will come back to haunt you. Every serious presidential campaign has thousands of staffers. Considering that vetting each one is damn nigh impossible, of course there may be one who would do something misguided while acting on their own. The implication that somehow this photo incident was devised or approved of by Hillary is ridiculous.

It's been said several times, and it bears repeating: THIS IS DRUDGE! If you're going to take his word for something, you'd better make doubly sure you confirm something before accepting it. And a non-denial denial is not confirmation. If this were sneaky right-wingers attributing something to Clinton in order to make both candidates look bad, it would hardly be the first time in the history of politics that such a maneuver has happened.

Yep, so far, the only person who has said that he got it from Clinton folks is Drudge, something that the Obama campaign eagerly picked up on and reinforced. He's used this holier-than-thou stance very effectively all through, well played!

From the transcript:

Matt Drudge on his website said it came from a source inside the Clinton campaign. Can you say unequivocally here tonight it did not?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, so far as I know, it did not. And I certainly know nothing about it and have made clear that that's not the kind of behavior that I condone or expect from the people working in my campaign. But we have no evidence where it came from.

So I think that it's clear what I would do if it were someone in my campaign, as I have in the past: asking people to leave my campaign if they do things that I disagree with.

OBAMA!

He plays hoops too! And he became a bench warmer for mouthing off just like me!

Big up to all the skinny bench warmers with funny names!

Apparently Hillary is so polarizing that even David Duke prefers Obama to her: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=907272c4-54db-4fba-9149-e95b7293d6a0

In Canada you can find pictures of many polictians wearing turbans at sikh events.

Dude, in Canada, you'll find politicians that wear turbans on a daily basis.

Yes, there a few sikh policticans in Canada with a turban. But I was talking about white politicans who go to sikh events where they put on a turban to get the sikh vote.

Apparently Hillary is so polarizing that even David Duke prefers Obama to her:

Maybe David Duke just likes people with the name Obama. it could be the name of some of his new friends on some of his visits to the Middle East and the Arab world where usually makes some speech where he blames the jews for everything.

Apparently Hillary is so polarizing that even David Duke prefers Obama to her: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=907272c4-54db-4fba-9149-e95b7293d6a0

Well, I sure hope he and his ilk doesn't have a change of heart and continues to hate old man Mack all the way through November, so that a Democrat wins the presidency.

Any idea what the projections for the house and senate look like?

"Obama: "I have been very clear in my denunciations of him...""

Ladies and Gentlemen, Entering the ring, possessing an indeterminate amount of intellectual honesty and integrity, it's.. misrepresentational manju.

The very quote you pull, when extended to include context:

"I have been very clear in my denunciations of him and his past statements, and I think that indicates to the American people what my stance is on those comments"

As for an outright rejection of his support, again from the very same link:

MR. RUSSERT: Do you reject his support?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, Tim, you know, I can't say to somebody that he can't say that he thinks I'm a good guy.

when pushed:

MR. RUSSERT: The problem some voters may have is, as you know, Reverend Farrakhan called Judaism "gutter religion."

OBAMA: Tim, I think -- I am very familiar with his record [reg'ding those particular statements], as are the American people. That's why I have consistently denounced it.

Ennis writes: >>I read this as directed at Latino voters. ...they can be pretty xenophobic and Islamophobic.

I'm shocked. Simply shocked. How did this comment get past SM Intern (unless certain rules are not applicable to bloggers)? Passing negative judgement on an entire populace, stereotyping tens of millions of people with a brush of the keyboard?

I bet you have many Latino friends.

What if someone goes on some Latino blogs and posts a link to this comment? What will that do to SM's image?

M. Nam

I think this race might be over. We are going to have nother teflon president (though this one will be smarter and not senile)

wow so many things to comment on!

First of all, with regards to rob's comment about Muslims treating Hindus as "kuffar dogs" - that's like me accusing Hindus of hating Muslims because they won't drink from the same cup! (remember the short film The Little Terrorist? (or whatever the name was...) Faulty logic.

I'm not sure Muslims would count Obama as a Muslim since he clearly does not call himself one. I do wonder, however, about how the Islamic zealots/"terrorists" will treat him if he's the US prez. I can easily imagine them accusing him of being a traitor for leaving his religion, or some stupid ish like that - anything to drum up controversy and further their twisted agenda.

Anyway, all that picture does is tell Americans that this man is a Mawzlem and a daggone African. Considering the attention placed on his church pastor's Afro-centric comments, Americans that can't trace their roots (drinking beer on St. Patty's day doesn't count) will use this as one more reason to vote against him.

Americans that can't trace their roots

Is this your pc-redneck comment?

Nice touch with Bill wearing a turban... it's sad to see Hilary and Obama accusing each other I really wished that if either won the election, the other person would be VP that'd be cool, but now it's like a madhouse listening to their talk, the only objective seems to be to put the other person down... forget the issues or the republicans, it's democrats eating each other up... geesh

Rob,

Are you serious in 69? I am sure there are many commenters here Muslim and non muslim who will take great offence to your generalizations.

sad to see Hilary and Obama accusing each other I really wished that if either won the election, the other person would be VP that'd be cool,

I really see it going one way, Hillary accusing Obama of wrong doing and campaign improprieties. Take the example of the fliers, of course, Hillary engages in the exact same thing, mailers, fliers, phone calls, emails, etc... Obama even said that Hillary is free to say it's misrepresentative if that's what she believes, but the notion that Obama is doing something egregiously incorrect whereas Hillary is playing nice nice is ludicrous.

The problem is, every week she has a new selling point, first she's experienced, then it was "Billary", now she's "the fighter"

On a somewhat related note, I dont get it why she keeps pointing out the differences between their health care programs. Neither of them have genuine single-payer universal health care. Certainly not gov't sponsored, and neither of them is a huge deviation from what exists now.

"Obama: "I have been very clear in my denunciations of him...""

Ladies and Gentlemen, Entering the ring, possessing an indeterminate amount of intellectual honesty and integrity, it's.. misrepresentational manju.

I don't think you know what the word "and" means.

HMF:

I'm going to bow out of this argument with you b/c once again, presented with evidence that you're completely wrong, you persist with tedious and pedantic arguments that just seem either dishonest or weird. i provided you with the very quote where he denounced Farrakhan and his ant-semitic comments ("I have been very clear in my denunciations of him and his past statements") and you somehow construe that since the context of him denouncing Farrakhan was his anti-semitic comments, the very context that i myself referred to in #71, means he didn't denounce Farrakhan. WTF?

I could go on and parse you're clintonian argument that he didn't reject Farrakhan's support, but i suspect it's a big waste of time.

However, if anyone else thinks ther's any credence to HMF's argument, please speak up and I'll elaborate. short of that, you can have the last word HMF. I'm out.

I don't think you know what the word "and" means.

I dont think you know what the word context means.

that he didn't reject Farrakhan's support, but i suspect it's a big waste of time.

Because it's the actual truth. once again, for the reading impaired:

MR. RUSSERT: Do you reject his support?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, Tim, you know, I can't say to somebody that he can't say that he thinks I'm a good guy

Does this amount to an unequivocal "NO"? Of course it doesn't, again, it presupposes the ability to read.

means he didn't denounce Farrakhan. WTF?

WTF indeed. He denounced him insofar as he made those comments. It's clear Obama wasn't making an absolute, all-around rejection of him as a perennial racist and evil human being, as most so often do. Your comment in #71;

"denouncing and rejecting the vile anti-Semite and racist as Clinton attempted to corner him"

if you left it at "anti-Semite" I'd say your comment was contextualized in the same way Obama's was. However you added "racist", my guess in reference to his statements on white America. Your overextension of what Obama had said is what I pointed out.

I'm going to bow out of this argument with you b/c once again

Because of your inability to address the point. You haven't proved anything wrong, infact I've given you more snippets from the debate to show you how it wasn't the all-inclusive denunciation you made it out to be, now if you're retracting from that position, say so, rather than, "your arguments are weird and pedantic"

Obama has denounced Farrakhan and his statements.
But, Obama cannot prevent Farrakhan from supporting him.
That is what I understood.

Agreed, the dictionary does not define denounce as "absolute, all-around rejection of him as a perennial racist and evil human being". But, what if Russert had asked Obama if he thought Farrakhan was evil and racist. My guess is Obama would have said yes.

But, what if Russert had asked Obama if he thought Farrakhan was evil and racist. My guess is Obama would have said yes

That's your guess. And it's a wonderful guess that can make it to the hall of fame of guesses.

However, based on what was asked of them that day, at that time, by Tim Russert, you cannot conclude that Obama denounces Farrakhan (outside of the anti-Jewish statements that Russert had alluded to), nor can you say he unequivocally rejects any verbal praise, because he answered that as well.

Obama has denounced Farrakhan and his statements.

He denounced him in so far as he doesn't agree with and doesn't wish to be associated with those particular statements. For example, Farrakhan has also said,

"And I hope that five years and 10 years from now, I'll be a better man, a more mature man, a wiser man, a more humble man and a more spirited man to serve the good of my people and the good of humanity. "

Now, if Obama was denouncing him completely, he should as well disagree with this statement, and every other statement he makes, correct? but my guess is, he'd agree with or at the very least, not denounce this statement.

Agreed, the dictionary does not define denounce as "absolute, all-around rejection of him as a perennial racist and evil human being

Actually, it's pretty close:

" to pronounce especially publicly to be blameworthy or evil"

I'm pleased to see John McCain Repudiates ‘Hussein Obama’ remarks,by a conservative radio talk show host. Just maybe we have turned a corner -politicians realize that citizens want more. link

Obama answered /phrased the Farrakhan charge from Hillary just right, by spelling out the silly semantic word games this came down to;

"I have to say I don't see a difference between denouncing and rejecting," he said, all but rolling his eyes at the entire line of questioning. "There's no formal offer of help from Minister Farrakhan that would involve me rejecting it. But if the word 'reject' Senator Clinton feels is stronger than the word 'denounce,' then I'm happy to concede the point, and I would reject and denounce."

My sister is married to a man who attended the Million Man march. It doesn't follow that she, her husband, or anyone else who hasn't offered a total ban on all things Farrakhan is anti semitic. I've visited Trinity (Obama's Church in Chicago)- it's too theologically liberal for my taste. That's a very separate issue from it being "separatist/racist" as Richard Cohen in the WaPo attempts to make it out to be.

it's too theologically liberal for my taste.

How so? just curious.

I'm pleased to see John McCain Repudiates ‘Hussein Obama’ remarks,by a conservative radio talk show host.

And this dumb fool tried to defend his repeated usage of 'Hussein' by shrugging his shoulders and saying, "That's the name his mother and father gave him"

56 · Manju said

How about; "Not that there's anything wrong with that."

I've visited Trinity (Obama's Church in Chicago)-

The Wapo writer was drawing attention to Obama's church giving some sort of honor/ award to Mr. Farakhan, and by imputation, asking Obama to call Farakhan the "blank blank" that he Mr.Cohen beleives him to be.

#104 But, what if Russert had asked Obama if he thought Farrakhan was evil and racist. My guess is Obama would have said yes.

I think he would have said no, in so many words.

How so? just curious.

I dont throw the full expansion out willy nilly.

;-) back at 'cha

99 · umber desi Rob,

Are you serious in 69?

I was being deliberately over the top to compensate for my "PC-ness in #'s 68 & 27--sorry, though--it does look a bit crazed (!) without that context.

Rob,

Thanks, that is what I thought, knowing your commenting history it looked out of character.

Rob:"
"Well, you can't say that Spanish-culture affiliated people are entirely without grounds for holding a bit of concern about (certain strands of) Islam now, can you?? (Think El Cid then or Madrid bombings now!)"

Oh, please!
Like the rest of the Islamic world isn't concerned about the conservative strain?
As for "Spanish-culture affiliated"- the Catholics did way more harm to the New World than any Arab ever did. Just read Fr. Junipero Serra's theories on creating a labor force. Think of it this way: that kind of brown did not exist before 1492.
In addition, under the Andalusian kingdoms, at one point, "Spain" possessed one of the most enlightened social constructs available in Europe and most of the known world.

Anyway, for a boy to officially join the umma, he has to be circumcized (usually around 4-6 years of age) and make a conscious declaration of faith (between 8-12)- at least in North Africa.

The other thing I have a problem with in regards to the brouhaha over the photo is that local dress does not always exclisively signal religion. Sometime local dress is just local dress and custom occaisionally requires a turban or whatever. Oh well.

And then there's this.

113 · Zazou In addition, under the Andalusian kingdoms, at one point, "Spain" possessed one of the most enlightened social constructs available in Europe and most of the known world.

Sure, but the Spanish weren't crazed or "Islamophobic" to view the Moors as invaders, right? I mean, they did invade. Yes, I know they were there for a long time and had impressive cultural accomplishments in Spain, but the modern Spanish national identity was forged on the anvil of resistance to the Moors . . . . And while the Spanish were definitely very brutal in the New World, the fact is that Latinos are "Spanish-culture affiliated"--how can you even argue against that--e.g., they speak Spanish!! So all I'm saying is that Spanish culture has some lingering problems with Islam that are historically-based. That seems pretty factual to me.

115 · rob said

113 · Zazou
In addition, under the Andalusian kingdoms, at one point, "Spain" possessed one of the most enlightened social constructs available in Europe and most of the known world.

Sure, but the Spanish weren't crazed or "Islamophobic" to view the Moors as invaders, right? I mean, they did invade. Yes, I know they we