April 07, 2008
Jana Gana Mana sung two waysMusic
One of the things that marks me as an ABD is the fact that the Indian national anthem leaves me cold. Largely that’s because I don’t identify as an Indian politically, but it’s also in part because most national anthems don’t move me. The Star Spangled Banner, for example, is a horrible song. I feel something when I hear it only because I am an American and am conditioned to do so, but honestly I’d far rather have a song like the Marseillaise which is actually catchy.
The first rendition of Jana Gana Mana is sung phonetically by Kenyans who make it sound a bit like church music - it loses the rhythm that it has when Indians sing it, but it becomes etherial and quite haunting (courtesy Chick Pea):
The second rendition is A.R. Rehman’s bombastic cover, as if John Phillip Sousa decided to set a lullaby to 24 tubas:
Do you guys have a favorite version of the anthem? How about the other regional national anthems (none of which I know) - Pakistan? Bangladesh? Lanka? Nepal? Afghanistan? Feel free to share youtube links but no rickrolling please …
ennis on April 7, 2008 11:29 PM in Music · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
Ummm.. It is Jana Gana Mana
What do you expect? He did say it didn't move him :)
D'oh. Fixed, thanks. Too little sleep means really obvious errors.
If you want a really hauntingly beautiful version of Jana Gana Mana, hear the one sung by Shubha Mudgal here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sn40JvmglE
This was sung as part of the ad, and I'd love to hear the full one if she ever recorded it.
The original (and the real) version can be found here.
Also, the wikipedia article on it is very informative too.
With all the greatest contemporary Indian artists, the A. R. Rehman version is my favorite :).
Two national anthems in Indian subcontinent are written by Rabindra Nath Tagore, and are in Bengali.
The other one is Bangladesh, Amar Shonar Bangla.
Here is a youtube version.
A Nobel Laureate poet......I guess he does not cut your muster.
Oh, and the french anthem :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K1q9Ntcr5g
Whats with the military lyrics? whats with "irrigating fields with impure blood"?
Somehow it doesnt quite match my image of France/ummm and the french "army".
4 · rax said
Thanks for the link!
Since I don't know Bengali, I can't follow the meaning of the words, and the tune does not excite me at all.
Furthermore, at the time the poem was widely believed to have been composed in honor of the visiting British monarch, and so again, it doesn't move me as an anthem for free India:
Lastly, Naipaul also won a Nobel prize in Literature, but that doesn't mean that I am going to like everything Naipaul writes ...
The French revolution was quite bloody and this was a revolutionary anthem. There has to be a better recording of it than that though ...
Furthermore, at the time the poem was widely believed to have been composed in honor of the visiting British monarch, and so again, it doesn't move me as an anthem for free India:
Still verdict is out whether Tagore wrote the poem for King George's visit, or it was song of love, which he gave the organizers to use at the occasion. Also, it was very early on used by Congress as a rallying cry, besides Vande Mantaram. The song clearly spells out Tagore's concept of India, long before it was formed as an independent country. However, there is lot of discussion about the original intentions of the song......even the meaning of the word, "Vidhata" in the anthem. Who is the Vidhata in the anthem? Vidhata means god, and is clearly above King George V.
Rabindra Nath Tagore is known all over the world for his lyrical poems (amongst many other things), Naipaul is known for scathing observations, and putting a big knife in what he sees......they are as opposite as two men of letters will ever be.
Either way, he gave it to be used in praise of King George and that was its first major public use. This just makes me less inclined to identify with it.
i was born and brought up in nepal, the then national anthem was in praise of the king:
"shree paanch sarkar maharajadhiraj ko sada rahos unnati
(may the king, our lord always prosper)
rakhun chirayu ish le, praja phailiyos pukaroun jay prem le
(may god give him a long life and the wide-spread kingdom may sing with love)
haami nepali saara le
(we are all nepalis)
...i hear it has changed now what with the regime change and all
> The French revolution was quite bloody and this was a revolutionary anthem. There has to be a better recording of it than that though ...
I guess this is where patriotism collides with violence.
A national anthem is more about loving one's own country and less about hating another person/country/"impure-blood-type".
If you want something to "rouse the troops" keep it separate.
(like Vande Mataram is more of a war cry than an anthem)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj1Iy4nRMkc (Original?)
Sadly I heard nothing about the beauty of France in that anthem. Sure it was catchy, but so is "my humps"
Here's a link to an instrumental version of the Pakistani national anthem by Junoon's Salman Ahmed that I love!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6WroglRgfU
The part about the composition being made for King George V is a highly debatable point, there are reports that the British press with a lack of knowledge of Indian languages (and ignorance about the difference between Bengali and Hindi) reported it "inaccurately". The controversy, I believe, was made popular by a chain of e-mails that seemed seemingly innocent and convincing to secular Indians ( I firs read it in an e-mail too), the following links might be of help.
Link
The jingoism of the anti-Jana Gana Mana campaign is based on an appropriate irony. The charge actually rests on false evidence given by the pro-British press. The song was first sung in a session of the Congress in 1911. This session had decided to felicitate George V since he had announced the abrogation of the partition of Bengal, thereby conceding the success of the Swadeshi agitation, the first modern anti-colonial movement that had started in 1905. The day after the session the nationalist Indian papers normally -- and accurately -- reported that a Tagore composition had been sung. The Bengalee -- along with other Indian newspapers as well as the report of the Indian National Congress - reported that it was a "patriotic song". The following year the song was published as "Bharat -- Vidatha". A contemporary commentator in the vernacular Bharati described the song as one in "Praise of the Dispenser of human Destiny, whoÖappears in every age." He probably came closest to capturing its spirit. This song was to later become known as Jana Gana Mana.
Link
oops, the last paragraph in the above comment ought to have been in quotes..
Ask for a better recording, and ye shall receive.
Except for two things:
1. The quote I gave you showed three reports from Indian newspapers, not English ones.
That's from a letter written by Tagore himself. Tagore isn't claiming that the song had been performed earlier, nor is he claiming that it had been incorrectly reported. He's merely saying it was really about God all along.2. If the wikipedia article is to be believed, even in Tagore's own explanation, he admits that he gave the song over as a praise song, however, he claimed it had not orginally been composed for the King:
My point is simpler than all of this - the song doesn't really move me, for whatever reason.
I like this version of the Marseillaise (from the movie about Edith Piaf's life.)
My point is simpler than all of this - the song doesn't really move me, for whatever reason.
Point taken.
1. The quote I gave you showed three reports from Indian newspapers, not English ones.
However, at that time, most (not all) of English newspapers (Times of India included) in India were owned and controlled by British. They were very few newspapers at that time (run by Tilak and all, and Gandhi had a newspaper in South Africa), that were run by Indians, and even dared to question His Majestic Service, howsoever, indirectly.
And of course, the Marseillaise starts off one of the Beatles most famous songs ...
Actually, competitive anthem singing can be a good time. (Here's looking at you, Floridian!)
Kush - why then doesn't Tagore's own account more directly contradict the British version? His own account is very close to the official story, differing only in terms of the true meaning of his action. He admits the song was used in praise of the King in its first public performance.
> My point is simpler than all of this - the song doesn't really move me, for whatever reason.
I get goosebumps whenever I hear Jana Gana Mana.
The American national anthem doesn't move me (maybe its the tune, or the out of rhyme words), but I love a good rendition of "God bless America".
I think he wrote a song about his mythical India, with "Vidhata" (the god) in reins of its destiny. Like, he wrote Amar Sonar Bangla as a poetic protest to partition of greater Bengal.
However,
Tagore in 1911, was an anglophile, he was Sir Rabindra Nath Tagore. He had good relations with English (Yeats included, who pushed for Tagore to be translated in English, and get Nobel nomination), and so he gave the poem to be read in honor of King George V visit.
It was in 1919, Jallianwala Bagh, when he returned his knighthood in protest.
A lot of his stories have a very strong under current of freedom struggle, and stirrings of freedom......like Ghare Bare, Choker Bali.
6 · Kush Tandon said
At the risk of sounding insensitive towards my Sri Lankan friends another anthem of the subcontinent Sri Lanka Matha by the late poet and and artiste extraordinaire Ananda Samarakoon too reminds me of Bankim Chandra's Vande Mataram and Gurudev's Jana Gana Mana... Samarakoon spent a few years at Shantiniketan and has brought together the best of the universalism of Tagore and the sort of expressive outward national love that Bankim rejoices in. The Sri Lankan, Bangladesh, and Indian anthems are of new States, and are not obsessed with blood and gore that characterised the earlier anthems. And the anthems I enjoy? I love all the South American and European ones, Brazil, Argntina, Chile, Ecuador, Italy, France (La Maresellaise, which was the first the anthem of the Confederate States), Greece.
The Sri Lankan anthem was good.
I like Israel's anthem (instrumental version), although reading the words/translation killed it for me. Too much self pity, sadness, "we are
the chosen victims" feel. Gosh! give it a rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatikvah
Since I don't know Bengali
shame on you! uncivilized brute....
And staying with "current affairs", Here's Tibet's national anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASevhpzcYHE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyallu
I think that Jana Gana Mana is not an appropriate choice of a national anthem for the reasons Ennis has mentioned.
I don't like the second version at all because of all the military BS, but maybe also because it's from after I left India.
I always found Saare jahaan Se Accha to be a much more beautiful, patriotic and national-anthemy song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6zTKonidWo&feature=related
I absolutely love this one. I would look forward to watching it every weekend, and I was surprised that when watching this after more than 15 years, I still remembered who would come nect. The second video of Jana Gana Mana you posted is a cheap imitation of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7OkWpfTz1U&feature=related
The reggae version of La Marseillaise by Serge Gainsbourg was quite controversial at the time (its my favourite rendition of La Marseillaise).
Between the three national anthems - Jana Gana Mana; Amar Shonar Bangla; and Pak Sarzameen; only the Pakistani anthem was explicitly conceived and set to music as a national anthem. The others were conceived and composed in other contexts and subsequently adopted as anthems. Pak Sarzameen is also the shortest, and almost completely in Persian. I have to say that it appeals to me the most among the three, both for its lyrics and for its music.
It is possible that, on lyrics alone, either or both of the Tagore compositions might be superior; but taken as a whole as anthems, I feel they both fall short. My knowledge of Bangla, such as it is, heartily exceeds my knowledge of Persian, so, while this is only my opinion, it is not biased linguistically - it reflects only by my own subjective preference, and no disrespect is meant to anyone whatsoever! I grew up singing Jana Gana Mana, and saluting the tricolor; not even knowing of the existence of the other two anthems. The preference is based on tastes I developed as an adult. I really wish Jana Gana Mana did more for me. A song I really like, however, is Saare Jahaan se Accha Hindostaan Hamaara - the Tarana-e-Hind. Most of the stanzas of the song do not get publicly sung; this clip, sung by a group from the AMUers of New England, has them all, and is therefore quite long. I wonder whether, had Partition been avoided, this song could have ended up as the national anthem of the united country.
I also wanted to link in these two youtube videos of Pak Sarzameen: One and Two; both were edited and created by Indians on youtube - the accompanying background motifs present compelling views of Pakistan, each uplifting in its own way.
the rhythm isn't the difference, it sounds different because the microtones are absent. typically absence of microtones would sound more pleasant/haunting/moving/melodic to a western ear than one with it.
well, it has several musicians who are extremely accomplished (plus a few placeholders like amjad ali khan's kids) in the piece, from a selection nicely representative of the many musical styles present in india. and it has my favorite singer dk pattamal. it has a nice interpretation tonally as well, each line has tiny deviations from the original that represents the school of performer who sings/plays that line (including mangeshkar's filmy lilt at the end on jaya he). i wouldn't call it bombastic (except for arr's silly drum beat at the end)---i don't know what made you think that.
The new Nepali Anthem actually makes you want to dance !
It seems Ennis isn't moved by Jana Mana Gana, perhaps, because of how he identifies himself? May I say, that he doesn't identify with it? So, what is there to be critical of this? Who is anyone to say anything about that? When I hear some other country's national anthem played for a gold medalist at the olympics, for example, (most often some eastern block country) it means nothing to me. It's just another song. But when I hear the Star Spangled Banner, and for some unexplained reason, even Jana Mana Gana, I am brought to tears, there is some sense of patriotism which these songs evoke within me. I was born in India, grew up in America, raised by my parents to respect and love the best of both. I don't think this is a matter of song pattern or "catchy" tunes. That discussion surely is a valid one, but not to the discussion of why one or the other moves people. [This is not to say that if you don't identify with Jana Mana Gana, that you are not "Indian enough"...I can just see someone extrapolating this from my comment.]
I personally found the Hungarian Anthem pretty beautiful though I prefer Szózat. Other personal favorites include the Russian, Romanian and Israeli anthems. The Israeli anthem is especially beautiful and quite haunting.
You like the Marseillaise? I can't stand it, and actually quite like the Star Spangled Banner. The Dutch national anthem is horrific as well, no one really knows the lyrics to it and the content is very xenophobic and violent. Jana Gana Mana doesn't do much for me as well, I find it rather an annoying kind of melody instead of uplifting.
I was born and grew up in India, now reside in the USA. What jana gana mana "did" for me is not very clear, but the song's history and musical quality had little to do with it. I heard it more often than just twice a year. Yet, I associated it with holidays--two thoroughly secular holidays. Hence it was a sort of clean, grave, sane parenthesis in a messy, crazy life, and all the military parades notwithstanding, it always felt like a very peaceful song. Perhaps this can be called a "religious" response. I think it evoked, probably by extramusical means, the same feelings that the highest kind of music evokes.
And for the rest of the year, we were decidedly un-brotherly, tribe-minded, vicious people, living in an unstable society and hostile nature.
A R Rahman is the ripest of the cheesy music vendors of India. His cheeseball twists and turns can be predicted about 50 notes in advance and he is unable to resist that tacky whinnying taan now afflicting all Indian pop. BUT, he has put together a parade of musical superstars, which (in a typically weak Rahman fashion), evokes a vague feeling of brotherly, non-tribal equality with them. Look at these great men and women ... they are us! We are somehow a single culture. We can simply "take" the treasures they have produced, no questions asked. We own those. Somewhere deep down, we might be sane, civilized, peaceable after all.
Putting such thoughts in your head, even if through purple music and star power, is good enough going for a national anthem ...
Here is my favourite edition- by the armed Navy band
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d08yl_4QFL4&feature=related
I had a couple of oppertunities to listen to the Indian Navy band play on the Navy Day celebrations and its really different hearing it live from 50 feet away.
As for liking the national anthem, I really like Jana Gana Mana. A national anthem, according to me, is not just any song with beautiful lyrics. It inspires that sense of respect and love for your country whenever and whereever you hear it. Atleast the Indian national anthem does that for me.
Coming to other nation's national anthems, I really dig the Soviet National Anthem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpKRd2xQeq8
Soviet National Anthem (Wikipedia)
On a side note, see this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A0-dg6ASqI
For got to add in my previous post
English version of the soviet anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtU3vUOa2sw&feature=related
I think a good anthem is one that is unifying. A great example of this is the South African anthem which includes parts in Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans, & English. Although my view is biased since I am South African & Bangladeshi, I still find it more moving than the Australian one (where I currently live) & the Bangladeshi one (where I visit frequently).
For the Nepalese anthem - I found it to have an East Asian and South Asian touch. The musical combo works quite nicely I think.
The Pledge was way more fun than the Anthem. Every morning our School building used to tremble a touch as the future of India tucked into the Pledge:
"Indiaismycountry. AllIndiansaremybrothersandsisters. ILovemycountry. Iamproudofitsrichandvariedculture. Ishallalwaysstrivetobeworthyofit. Ishallloveandrespectmyparentsteachersandelders.TomycountryandmypeopleIpledgemydevotion. JAIHIND."
The tune is simple in order that everyone can sing it. As an American I particularly appreciate that. (la-and of the FREEEEEEEEEEEE, anyone?)
And the words are so inspiring, a grand portrait of the diversity which is brought together in India. And there is no hostile reference to outsiders, no guns, no blood, no race wars.
Here's the Wikipedia entry with the English translation of the lyrics and all the other discussion.
Too right! Neither the tune nor the lyrics are inspiring. Often the lyrics sound like they've been chosen just so they rhyme. And I've never really understood the "let us rejoice for we are young & fair". It's like they just slapped it together after federation.
M'fraid I did have to learn the South African anthem (at school), & it can get quite tricky changing from the "clicking" pronunciation of Xhosa to the ghhhh type sounds of Afrikaans.
Vande Mataram brings me to tears--every version of it except Rahmans'. I guess I'm in Scribble #39's camp viz Rahman. His latest compositions in Jodha Akbar are not too bad though.
I've never liked Jana Gana Mana. It is not very musical but it is easy to sing. There are people in South India --Tamil nadu-- who can't actually sing JGM. They don't understand the words. So in cases like this, it is better that it has a easy to follow tune. Strange words and difficult to sing is worse than strange sounding words alone.
Or maybe they can't sing JGM because they are actually from Sri Lanka. That is what I discovered about these little Tamil school children in the areas I stayed in on my last visit to India. What was interesting though was that they thought we were the foreigners. Not just me, but other Indians. And other dark**Indians. Some of these people have no concept of India. It is their little (Sri Lankan) village and that is all they know.
**I know some of you get really upset when the issue of skin color is brought up. But hey, these are espresso colored people. If you are not the same shade of brown and also don't know Tamil, they don't know that you are any different from the very tanned german pedophile living down the road. The notion of India does not exist in their minds.
Fuelling another debate here:
An Indian Government website claims that the Hindi version of Tagore's song was taken as the national anthem of India.
But some claims it is actually the Bangla text pronounced in Hindi accent (it actually is Bengali too). The words are pure Bangla tatsama words. The grammar is unmistakably Bangla and not Hindi or Sanskrit.
An Indian Express article argues:
No Hindi adaptation was done (note: Hindi and Bangla language have same roots) and nore there was any formal decision of the Indian Government regarding this.
Rabindranath played with languages. Probably Tagore wrote the texts without any vowels so that it can be sang both in Bangla and Hindia as teh words are in both languages.
From Wikipedia:
In 1877, Rabindranath rose to notability when he composed several works, including a long poem set in the Maithili style pioneered by Vidyapati. As a joke, he maintained that these were the lost works of Bhānusiṃha, a newly discovered 17th-century Vaiṣṇava poet.
And what do you know a German scholar worked on a theses with these works as works of of Bhanusimha and was awarded a PhD.
UberMetroMallu,The pledge was way more fun......however,the last line is"To my country and my people I pledge my devotion in their well being and prosperity alone lies my happiness,JaiHind"
Ennis,
You need to go out more.....like any movie house in India...and watch/listen as everybody stands up and sings JGM before the movie begins.
I , personally, am glad India wins so few medals as the Olympics. That way i never get bored of JGM.
Forget the Kenyans. Somebody should get Marvin to rock the Indian National Anthem.
If you watch closely enough, you can see Obama booing the National Anthem in Chicago.
Also who cheers for war this loudly?
I don't know why some of us don't move with national anthem, I studied in Pilani in small school for 10 years, and every year we would sing national anthem only twice, you know the dates, well the word " BHARAT BHAGYA VIDHATA " would bring so much passion and respect and this was true all across the board, cuz we talked over it after the song and prasadam was given to everyone of us. I think it should be ethereal not ethrial. I don't identify myself with US and I don't make any comment on there national anthem although I don't see any emotions coming from their national anthem. As far as church connection with Indian national anthem goes, I don't feel that at all, we have always linked our National anthem with Bharat Mata and 26th Jan or 15th August. We were never conditioned because the anthem was something we connected with martyrdom, specially after watching movies of Bhagat Singh, Bose, Nehru and Gandhiji. There is hell lot of difference in growing up in India during 70's or 80's as compared to growing up in US, where it's more of absolute than mediocre.
Re 6:
Oh, good grief! Kush, the youtube link you provided is NOT the Bangladeshi National Anthem; it's a currently popular version of an old song sung by Habib.
An instrumental version (mp3) of the Bangladeshi Anthem is here. And here's a youtube version of it that's sung.
---
Re 33:
Chachaji, while I don't dispute that Amar Shonar Bangla was composed in a different context and then shoehorned in as the Bangladeshi National Anthem, I believe it serves us Bangladeshis well. It might not be the most stirring or martial of songs (we have those too; see Nazrul's Urdho Gagone Baje Madol -- used by the army -- or his Karar Oi Louho Kopat), but having already gone through a particularly bloody war of independence, we don't necessarily see the need to either extol our martial values or sing some glorified version of Bangladesh uber alles. The anthem remains a simple nostalgic song reminding us of what we are (alright, were) -- a golden and green pastoral nation, and for many of us, that suffices.
Oh, good grief! Kush, the youtube link you provided is NOT the Bangladeshi National Anthem; it's a currently popular version of an old song sung by Habib.
Sorry, I just searcher in youtube for "Amar Shonar Bangla", and that link came on top.
Thanks for the correction.
I was going to bring up this issue in my previous comment, but feared political incorrectness. This is a similar case to South Africa, where not everyone can speak the same language. This is why I think it was such a great idea to make a combined anthem with a little bit of the various languages. It promotes unification and patriotism but at the same time accomodates the differences. I saw this at school where say a Xhosa kid would know the Xhosa part of the anthem better or sing it just a little louder. It was like "yes, this is my part" & made the whole thing more inspirational. I do acknowledge though, that it doesn't include all 11 languages....most of the native ones being quite similar. That said... I like JGM actually.
Since I don't know Bengali, I can't follow the meaning of the words, and the tune does not excite me at all.
I am guessing this is the main reason. This is the primary reason i like both this as well as bangladesh's anthem, tho i think "dhono dhanye pushpe bhora" is a more moving song.
Furthermore, at the time the poem was widely believed to have been composed in honor of the visiting British monarch, and so again, it doesn't move me as an anthem for free India:
This is an urban legend. Odd that you, Ennis, would (half ?) believe something spread primarily by hindu fundamentalists. Little knowledge and all that, I suppose.
50 · Neale said
I , personally, am glad India wins so few medals as the Olympics. That way i never get bored of JGM.
Neale,
I har my Mom's genration say that, Jaga Gana Mana was sung AFTER the movie a few decades back, mo movie house in India plays Jana Gana Mana before/after the movie (in the past 25 years). (one of )The reason(s) why they stopped it is, if you were to stand in respect for the full duration of the Anthem, there was a risk that the different modes of public transport might be gone by the time you arrived, so lot of people weren't keen on doing it which amounted to "insulting" the Anthem.
-
As for some opinions about the anthem not being "touching" or "moving", now it can't be forced, right? I couldn't have put it better....
..........................Yet, I associated it with holidays--two thoroughly secular holidays. Hence it was a sort of clean, grave, sane parenthesis in a messy, crazy life, and all the military parades notwithstanding, it always felt like a very peaceful song. Perhaps this can be called a "religious" response. I think it evoked, probably by extramusical means, the same feelings that the highest kind of music evokes.
And for the rest of the year, we were decidedly un-brotherly, tribe-minded, vicious people, living in an unstable society and hostile nature.
On these two special holiday's, a fluttering tri-color in front of you and a music band drumming away did evoke some feelings, probably more intense for some, they can't be suppressed, right?
Another (patriotic) video that is definitely touching is this
I must be your total opposite, Ennis :-) I love national anthems. All of them. Specially the Marseillaise of course. Sometimes i watch Casablanca just for that part. And I try and watch the first 5 minutes of the big games because the americans really do theirs the best. I wish the Indians would put some zazz into theirs. Even the Rahman version is a bit wimpy in its overall effect, but i do love jana gana mana too.
All this talk about what Jana Gana Mana was first used for are inconsequential, unless we make it so. The idea of a nation is either created or formed over time but it is more of an idea than the sum of its parts, the political necessities and the advantages of being a nation, etc. The idea is the biggest thing and an anthem is connected to this idea. Thus the importance of an anthem or its ability to move does not come from the quality of its lyrics or the catchiness of its music. Nor does it come from what its origins were. Thus irrespective of all these things, the Indian anthem or the American one have the power to inspire and move - no matter whether you care about the music or understand the lyrics.
Similarly, even if the Indian anthem was used to praise King George 100 years back, so what. Today to an Indian, it is more about being proud about things Indian and what India means to them. When I hear the anthem and am not in an excessively dissecting and critical frame of mind, to my mind it brings things that I associate with India and moves me due to that. I do not care about the rest, its all about emotion and thats it.
But yes, if this issue of George was indeed hyped up so much that people got emotional enough over it so that the idea of the anthem and those emotions were lost in the emotions raised over the controversy, then it would start mattering. Hopefully, it would not come to that!
Are you saying this based of videos of the Indian anthem on TV/Youtube. Those are hardly close to the real thing, they match in lyrics and music but never in the passion. The passion is seen in schools and colleges, parades and public squares when people sing the anthem on occassions such as the Republic Day and the Independence day.
You started an interesting line of thought Ennis. I guess being Indian politically as well as genetically, the national anthem has just been a part of my psyche and never come in for critical appraisal even from this most trigger-happy of caustic critics!
But having thought about it now, I must say that it does move me anyway, maybe it's too deep to be touched. I think it's extremely funny (and kind of fitting considering how fluid the concept of Indian-ness is) that the Kenyans have managed a much more evocative rendition than AR Rehman's overly stylised attempt!
On a separate note, I've always felt that America the Beautiful would have a made a more powerful anthem than The Star Spangled Banner, which is weak both lyrically and musically.
How many people speak or understand Persian in Pakistan ?. Atleast Bengali is spoken in a state in India.
The Indian anthem is a bit too bengali for me. Should have been written in Hindi. But I like the AR Rahman version above. The Pak anthem has a great tune (the electric guitar Junoon version linked above is awesome!) -- but what's with the all-Persian lyrics? It's like a closeted gay man talking too much about how he wants to "nail some chicks". Yeah, we get you're not Hindus -- stop overcompensating.
I like the Marsellaise too, And the Russian anthem has a great tune, but crappy lyrics. The American anthem is my favorite -- great lyrics, great music. Here's the amazing Jimi Hendrix at Woodstock version.
There was a movement in the Reagan era to make America the Beautiful the anthem.
I get quite moved when I listen to "Oh Canada". One of the more beautiful anthems, in my very biased opinion.
Kush had asked me how I could be so glib given Tagore's status, and at that point I discussed the history of the piece, based on what I could find in wikipedia. That's where this issue about King George came from.
Agreed.
I think the instrumentation really matters--i'm utterly unmoved by large orchestral arrangements. If SL's anthem was played utilizing a double-bridge violin, big drum set, the bass guitar from Lightning Bolt and a mridangam or two...i'd be moved. Otherwise, it's just a reminder of how corny a nation's window-dressing cultural accouterments can be.
Another song, also by Tagore, that I like a lot is Ekla Chalo Re. Here are Solo A Capella, and Harmonica versions.
On the question of Persian and the Pakistani anthem - the Western parts of Pakistan speak heavily Farsi-influenced tongues - Dari, Pashto, Balochi. And the Urdu now current in Pakistan has also borrowed significant chunks of its vocabulary from Persian. So while classical Persian is not exactly an everyday linguistic experience for Pakistanis, it is not nearly as far removed as it might at first seem.
The Sanskritized Bangla of Jana Gana Mana (adhinayaka? bhagya-vidhaata?) is arguably similarly, if not more, distant from everyday Bangla speech - forget about other Indians, especially those who speak Dravidian languages. One of the reasons I like Ekla Chalo Re, is that it's Bangla is much closer to the everyday. Unfortunately, while it might do as a credo for some people (ahem!), it won't do as a national anthem.
Another song that deserves mention, especially given this is SM - is Kadam Kadam Badhaye Ja! - the anthem of Netaji Bose's INA during WW2.
And finally - I do want to congratulate Ennis for initiating this and for all the mutineers who chimed in - in this discussion of national anthems - one of the most emotive topics possible. It's been great to hear everybody's views. I've learnt a lot, and hope to learn more.
I've always found Pak Sar Zameen annoying because of some experiences when growing up, but I'm warming up to it after chachaji gave his approval.
Yes, Persian isn't the language of Pakistan, but people who know Urdu should be able to understand most of it. But that is irrelevant, how many people understand songs anyway? As a kid, I always thought that some guy named Bharat ran to Vidhata, wherever it was. Also, how many people understood Springsteen's "Born in the USA"? Many people still think that it's a usual patriotic song.
Someone mentioned the Canadian anthem. 10 points for anyone who can pull up the Simpsons episodes where the forego the US anthem and sing O Canada instead,
I sang the JGM for years at school and it can still break out the goosebumps. But then anthems can do that to me, even club anthems :).
While JGM, like most anthems, iconizes sentiments i disagree with, there is no denying the soaring lyricism or the proud, vivid way ARR's version showcases a wealth of musical craftsmanship--like the utter awesomeness that is D.K. Pattammal.
I find it ironic that the first listing after typing 'India National Anthem' on Yahoo! is
www.whitehouse.gov/national-anthem/newdelhi-full.html
I think choosing "Persian" as the language for the "national anthem" has more to do with the mentality of keeping "Persian" on the pedestal (being the "official" and "court" language of the Mughals) than any commonality with Urdu (again a minority language in the Pakistan dominated by Punjabi/Bengali/Sindhi).
I think Pakistan when it came into being was considered (atleast by the elites who created the state) to be a continuation of the Mughal rule.
Where is the Buffalaxed version?
I could have written this exact same thing. Wow.
I like to go to games when the Blue Jays come to New York, so I can hear the Canadian national anthem, which is a fine one. I also particularly like South Africa, Poland and Argentina. Jana Gana Mana is not my favourite Indian patriotic song. I much prefer Sare Jahan se Achha.
And I could have written the exact opposite. National anthems at sporting events annoy me. It is alright if the match is between national teams, but the practice does not make sense to if the match is between private franchise teams. Maybe that is the reason why I'm always somewhere else when the anthems are playing.
My comments were not directed at you or anyone in particular but at this controversy that keeps coming up about the anthem. I think it's perfectly cool that the Indian anthem does not move you and I was not implying otherwise. Actually, I wont have issues if the Indian anthem did not move someone who was an Indian citizen either, patriotism should not be defined in ill formed narrow concepts of standing or sitting, wearing flags or singing anthems. To each his own, people do not need to feel love for their country (though that is always nice) as long as they do not do harm to the country they come from.
Ok, with all this talk of anthems at sports events, I have to link in this video - Jana Gana Mana and Pak Sarzameen, both sung back-to-back, by the same South African choir at Johannesburg - at the end of the Twenty 20 finals, in September 2007, which India won. JGM gets speeded up a little, so both JGM and PS land in just about a minute each, and both anthems run at about the same tempo. Both sound great, and it's difficult to tell they're being sung by non-natives.
generally not a fan of national anthems, but particularly am irritated by the one's that talk about war, violence, vanquishing the enemy etc. Examples of the latter would be "star spangled banner",La Marseillaise, "god save the king/queen", though I like the tunes of the first two (so am not immediately repelled so long as I don't have to concentrate or listen to the words).
The following should have been the words to a national anthem of India, or for that matter of every country in the world (set in any tune)
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow
domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the
dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought
and action--
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
This is probably off-topic but does anybody know a "Dilruba" or "Esraj" player in the L.A. area ?
These are musical instruments that are a cross between an violin and a sitar.
If you do, e-mail me.
81 · chachaji said
When the new South African legislature was inaugurated, it featured invocations from many sacred texts, so I am not surprised at the atmosphere of cordiality with which the chorists went about their rendition. Wow! Not to miss the cute mascots. Standing bareheaded at such an occasion is a Christian/Hindu custom of piety or respect. While for Muslims. Sikhs, and Jews they do so by keeping their heads covered. In Pakistan in keeping with Western custom military personnel as a rule leave their hats 'outside'. Splendorous to see such a variety of expression.
South Africa is truly the place where the world comes together.
I dunno, I'm an American, and it moves me...
23 · Rahul said
Actually, competitive anthem singing can be a good time. (Here's looking at you, Floridian!)
That's a great moment - imagine - a Czech and an American lead the French expats in hte Marsellaise! These days, French and German soldiers march together on national days in Paris, and Berlin! Thankfully those days of war are long past and lie behind us.
6 · Kush Tandon said
it's either "pass muster" or "cut the mustard". there's no such thing as "cut muster"
Kali ji,
it's either "pass muster" or "cut the mustard". there's no such thing as "cut muster"
From WSU:
It’s “cut the muster,” not “cut the mustard.”
This etymology seems plausible at first. Its proponents often trace it to the American Civil War. We do have the analogous expression “to pass muster,” which probably first suggested this alternative; but although the origins of “cut the mustard” are somewhat obscure, the latter is definitely the form used in all sorts of writing throughout the twentieth century. Common sense would suggest that a person cutting a muster is not someone being selected as fit, but someone eliminating the unfit. See the alt.usage.english faq explanation of this term.
Other references.
Now instead of anthems, we are talking about muster/ mustard.
Now instead of anthems, we are talking about muster/ mustard.
CUT THE MUSTARD -- From "Listening to America" by Stuart Berg Flexner (Simon and Schuster, 1982), "Mustard came into English in the 13th century from the French (going back to Latin mustum, grape juice, originally used for mixing ground mustard seeds into a paste). By the War of 1812 'mustard seed shot' was an American term for small-gauge shot. Between 1900 and 1910, when commercially bottled mustard became popular, 'mustard' appeared in several slang expressions that used the strength of the condiment as a metaphor: 'to be the proper mustard' meant to be the genuine article, 'to be all mustard' meant to be excellent, and 'to be up to the mustard' and 'to cut the mustard' both meant to come up to expectations. Since World War I the last expression has been used almost exclusively in the negative 'he can't cut the mustard' - and among many men is used to mean unable to have an erection, to be unable to perform sexually."
From the "Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins" (Second Edition, HarperCollins, 1977) by William and Mary Morris: "cut the mustard -- was originally a Western expression, popular among cowboys during the late nineteenth century. If something was 'the proper mustard,' it was O.K., the genuine article. Andy Adams used the expression this way in his famous 'Log of a Cowboy,' when he wrote that 'for fear the two dogs were not the proper mustard, he had that dog man sue him in court to make him prove the pedigree.' And Carl Sandburg once wrote: 'Kid each other, you cheapskates. Tell each other you're all to the mustard." Then expression cut the mustard then came into vogue."
I didn't read all the comments, but I loved the kenyan version. Got goosebumps. And I'm not a particularly patriotic person.
@ #14 rax
The link you have posted is from a movie and not how it is sung. Here is the original and here is a downloadable file
The English translation. Where is there a call to arms.
My obeisance to Mother India!
with flowing beneficial waters
Filled with choicest fruits
Sandal wood wafts cool
Lovely mooned nights.
O mother! My obeisance to you!
Where the bright morning light and thrilled nights
Are dressed in attires wondrous flora abloom
Sweet speaker of sweet languages
A happy boon are you, o mother...
Aha…dear mother, I salute you!
The English translation. Where is there a call to arms.
45 · melbourne desi now in the desh said
The subject matter of Waltzing Matilda is a hobo making tea, stealing a ship, drowning while hiding in a pond and then becoming a ghost and haunting that pond, hardly something that would make a national anthem. They could jazz up the AAF like the Adam Hills rock version
True, but that said, Waltzing Matilda is generally much beloved for its ideals of antiauthoritarianism and "live free or die" sentiments like '"You'll never catch me alive", said he'. AAF was chosen simply because it wasn't controversial, not because it was everyone's favorite choice.
If anyone here wants an Indian American anthem derived from Waltzing Matilda, try starting with "Welcome macaca, welcome macaca".
That was a SHEEP!
sorry my mistake, yeah its a sheep. The same mistake, Ship - Sheep, cost me at my KG (pre-school) interview at a prestigious school and had to settle for another one.
53 · Ashwani Batra said
I move with the national anthem, but not as much as I do with a Segway. National trees, on the other hand? That's a topic that really gets the blood flowing at a party. I did write in the jack pine as my choice, but when that failed, I stood behind the president, and to this day, I put my hands on my heart when I drive past an oak tree independent of the car scent I am using.
93 · Samir said
The link you have posted is from a movie and not how it is sung. Here is the original and here is a downloadable file
The English translation. Where is there a call to arms.(?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_mataram
""Vande Mataram" was the national cry for freedom from British oppression during the freedom movement. Large rallies, fermenting initially in Bengal, in the major metropolis of Calcutta, would work themselves up into a patriotic fervour by shouting the slogan "Vande Mataram," or "Hail to the Mother(land)!". "
Yea, my apologies that my forefathers couldnt write a more harsh, hate filled, bloody war cry.
However, Its what I'd expect from a peace loving nation.
@98
I wasn't smart enough to know what IPA stood for while going for a pre-school interview. ;)
Vande Mataram should have been the national anthem -- because of this historical context.
OMG that was beautiful. sombre , yet joyous... regal yet full of humanity... luv it luv it. it must be a church choir.
I could especilly appreciate that the "bh" sound was pronounced correctly. it doesnt exist in kiswahili though not sure if it exists with the kalenjin language - as the singer seemed to be.
well done guys. i'll see yez soon. kilimanjaro in 2009-10 or bust.