Embarassed to be tanned? No. Funny, yes.

More forgivingly, it might simply be that one is always embarrassed to look a little different from how one normally looks.

Amardeep, I agree everyone looks better tanned. No matter how much darker you get, you also get a glow. I think there might be two parts to this dark skin issue with Indians. In south where I was born, it is better to be light skinned but a guy or girl with more perfect features will be considered more beautiful. But with the north indians i meet, its always only fair is beautiful. It became obvious to me a few weeks ago. Two of my husband's friends married recently. One, an abcd gujju, married a dark brown gujju girl with the most amazing eyes, arching eyebrows and aishwarya rai lips(according to my husband). The other friend, a middle easterner, married a girl from his home, who was very ordinary looking but very fair. My husband and I were amazed...guess who our north indians were gushing over?

I know exactly what you mean about being embarrassed about being embarrassed of getting too tanned. Being Punjabi, while growing up I could not get away from the belief that fair is beautiful. Over time I have moved away from that and now find dark complexions quite beautiful - I believe it imparts a character to ones complexion which being fair does not. But at times I have found a conflict between my current beliefs and the beliefs that I had while growing up thanks to my environment and when I find a conflict between the two, I find it embarrassing.

*Really* dark-skinned and love it. Back home (think Chennai), the sun just made me dark (think burnt sienna) and my mother would schedule me around the harshest rays (10 am - 2 pm). But getting a tan here, on the east coast, turns me orangey/golden and is quite glowy.

Please tell me i'm not the only dark-skinned south asian grateful for the way dark skin hides a multitude of skin flaws and gives your limbs a skinny look?

Amardeep, i too tend to think that your embarrassment is mostly because of looking different--a sense of alienation from the way you usually look. I experienced that myself when I had my hair permed--I yearned for curly hair, but didn’t quite feel like myself once I had it.

I don't usually get tan b/c I'm very much an indoors girl. But I do have to say that I HATE the desi obsession with skin color. That sometimes makes me embarrassed.

Amardeep, I went to Barbados one year just one week before an India trip. I was so careful to avoid the sun IN BARBADOS so that when I went to India a week later my relatives and other assorted people wouldn't find me dark. Normally in Barbados I'd be out on the beach, in the water, etc. but on that trip I stayed in the shade and in the hotel. Drove my friends nuts. Still had fun at night in the clubs though.

I'm someone who can go from light brown (my winter shade) to deep dark brown (if I hang out in the sun) very quickly.

Interesting post. I am a desi who loves being tan. I think I look healthier, more vibrant and generally better looking (as I write this I wonder if I'm a little vain). I am pretty fair, so when I do see my parents' friends during the summer months, I am often treated to "What happened? Have you lost your color?!" As if something truly horrific happened to me. I, too, find the entire phenomenon more than a little embarrassing.

"...Apparently your skin's been kissed by the sun, it makes me wanna hershey's kiss your licorice..."

I have a lot of friends (non desi and desi) who love to get a tan and so in the summer months i do find myself on the beaches or at BBQ's enjoying the sun.

I don't particulary care for what people think of my skin tone as i'm natirally fair and my tan is more of a glow that seems obvious to me it's a 'tan'.
However the year i got married i was told by some family and friends to avoid the sun, and not to get a tan for the wedding pics and i found this was common amongst many other friends so yes parts of the community / desi society still has a major issue with skin colour and it's such a shame.

Amardeep,
Tanning stories? The day after the Pulitzers were announced ?

;-)

I love getting a tan. It does, as you say, bring out the more golden-orange tones in my skin, far preferable to the yellow-and-blue tints which usually dominate in the wintertime. On the down side, the heat does dreadful things to my skin, causing boils and blackheads of all sorts to erupt.

Just to add, I've never heard my Indian acquaintances, north or south, east or west, gush over fairness. I've gotten my fair share of compliments from them, and I'm very definitely a coffee brown.

well even if I put bloggers on sm on a pedestal, I have to realize they must fall; I thought to be a blogger on SM you guys had to be above all this :) (I'm joking!)

i'm dark and sometimes I wish I was lighter, but most of my life I just realize this is how I was created and I'm happy with myself. I think living in the US as weird as the color and race dynamics is, makes me appreciate my dark skin more,,, perhaps than if I lived in India? I don't know. But I also feel India society isn't as color concious as the media, including Indian social activists play it out as, ...I think it's a lot more complex and different than the american skin/race paradigms. And I'm one of those Indians that doesn't feel color in India, unlike for some people in the US, can hold a person back economically and/or socially --- well, unless they were dark and looking for a career as a star actress in bollywood.

I love being tanned because I like a little color. What embarrasses me, though, is when my tan points to privilege. For example, I once went to St. Thomas for Thanksgiving, and I came back with probably one of the darker tans I've had. I didn't care about the color but that I stuck out as someone who clearly had the means to go off to the Caribbean for Thanksgiving.

:Two of my husband's friends married recently. One, an abcd gujju, married a dark brown gujju girl with the most amazing eyes, arching eyebrows and aishwarya rai lips(according to my husband). The other friend, a middle easterner, married a girl from his home, who was very ordinary looking but very fair. My husband and I were amazed...guess who our north indians were gushing over? :

The intent here is not to emphasise colour,rather it's to question its relevance to the success of a marriage or to the quality of life at all.

i've been really tan after trips to south america...after the first trip.. i came back and had a real sunburn..it was weird, as i hadn't experienced it before... i was browner than brown.. um.. i was red, despite the spf 45 ;).. as my nose peeled i found it odd.. thinking 'is this what melanin lackers enjoy?'... another time i was watching a ballgame outside sans sunscreen.. i turned as red as a lobster.

Coloured_Perceptions said..."...who was very ordinary looking"

Ouch!

I feel you Amardeep on the shock/awe of the "first summer tan". I rarely stay out in the sun but early last summer I spent an entire day (8+ hours) in direct sunlight and for the next week, every time I looked in the mirror, I was freaked out. (The fact that I had been wearing a bandanna and ended up with a tan line in the middle of my forehead didn't help any either.) For me it was more an issue of sudden change. I quite prefer my "summer color" over my winter one as brown covers a multitude of wrongs. ;)

Generally though, the progression takes a few weeks so I don't notice as much and still get to enjoy the results.

Yeah, I recognize that. Don't know what to think about it.

Amardeep, I completely understand your feelings coz I go through the same feelings every summer:) I love swimming and on weekends I swim in the afternoon only to come back and see myself 5 times darker than my actual very light brown skin color.

:"There are many different ways of being beautiful, and I find the desi obsession with skin tone (especially as it indexes with the matrimonials culture) tedious and embarrassing":

Consider the millions of matrimonial ADs,a classic example of this tendency that does not seldom demand a "tall,fair,good looking " girl.A hard-core feminist would be up in arms about why these ads fail to specify the groom's complexion.

As many a Virginian can tell you, the post August dog-days farmer's tan (darker sleeves, neck, lower legs) is eagerly anticipated. Alas, there are no clothing-optional, outdoor sunning stations(not beds) in this state...i've had a fine farmer's tan for over two decades now, every year, at the same time.

I've been very self-conscious of my tans from visits to india, mostly because it feels weird to look at your arms and feet and not instantly recognise them. Feels like i'm wearing a second skin sometimes and I do worry for some reason about people thinking that that is my real skin tone. But since I don't really go about trying for a tan, for me it feels like an imposed change rather than if I changed my hair colour or something.

Being Punjabi, I am pretty fair and that comes from both sides of the family and being fair is desired in my family. However, my Gujurati husband would actually prefer that I be a bit darker and has suggested, on multiple occaisions, that I go to a tanning salon or use some home self-tanners. I like my skin tone, and have been resistent to tanning, but I wonder if that's just b/c I'm light, and if I were darker, would I think that the grass is greener on the "fair" side of the fence. On the negative side, I did go to Australia recently, and got burned everywhere.. definately not fun!

when i was in high school i'd play a lot of rat-ball on the black-top during the summer. i'd get a really strong tan and my exposed skin (legs, face, arms) would get much darker. my mom would bitch about me looking 'kala.' i really enjoyed that that bitching ;-)

cognitive psychology tells us that a lot of mental processing is implicit. that is, we don't have conscious access to it. social conditioning and praise or negation throughout our lives probably has a strong affect on us, no matter what value we try to hold. i think it's probably the norm for even american south asians, raised by mostly colorist parents who wouldn't STFU about the topic, to reflect a hierarchy of values where lighter brown is better. my own hope is that because most of us find this obsession unseemly, we'll keep our mouths shut around our kids, and not perpetuate the meme.... (implicit ticks don't generally develop if you don't ram inputs over & over during socialization processes)

I come back tanned from Florida or Myrtle beach.
I come back charred from any Caribbean Island.
I suppose the sun is a lot harsher there?

A while ago I read that in Asian and in other places where work is mainly done outside in the sun, being light skin shows privilege because you don't have to work outside in the fields (same applies to the US in areas where agriculture was dominant in the past) but in the US being tanned shows that you are privileged because you have time to take off work to tan.

I don't mind being tanned but when I get too dark, I lose the natural variation in tone so I look like I've poured a darker shade of makeup all over my face.

You know sunscreen goes a long way, but your social environment really contributes to how you feel about yourself. That's all I really wanted to say, but personal experience and opinion follows.

I've had some sort of evolution with my feelings toward getting a tan. In my elementary years I could care less. However, after visiting India, I became more conscious of the "problem" with getting darker. My family has been an advocate of fairness, for the women at least. In middle school and high school I became concerned with staying out of the sun, but it was inevitable because of sports activities and living in a very sunny state. In high school and college I used to go on trips with non-Indian friends who just couldn't wait to lay out, and I had absolutely no interest in joining them at the time. I did love the beach though so you could find me there under an umbrella or towel. Sometime in college I felt that sun exposure gave me a healthy glow, which I otherwise did not have. Ever since, I feel pale in the winter and look forward to getting a tan, even though I am on the darker side already. Over the years I've become an advocate of everyone getting a tan if they don't have enough sun exposure because everyone's skin is rather lackluster when they don't get the sun they need. I also realized more recently I tend to get sunburn and have to use sunscreen. I guess that melanin doesn't cut it anymore.

Reactions from others upon my return from sun-filled vacation vary. I found that Indian friends generally reacted with, "damn you got dark." My non-Indian friends really never responded with much, sometimes I wonder if they even noticed. When they did notice though, they would say, "looks like you got a nice tan," which I was usually assured was not intended to be euphemistic.

Hmm...2 readers have self identified themselves as dark and 5 as light skinned. I think we are making progress. A couple of years back almost no one would call themselves 'dark' on here :)

being punjabi/potohari, i love getting a tan and getting that "golden-brown" hue ( http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8826/deemzot9.jpg - i am vain, i think look better with some colour ). how anybody finds fair-yellowish skin attractive is beyond me, especially in this day and age when the advantages of dark skin color are a lower incidence of skin cancer and fewer wrinkles.

fair skinned people look dead to me.

Hmm...2 readers have self identified themselves as dark and 5 as light skinned. I think we are making progress. A couple of years back almost no one would call themselves 'dark' on here :)

point taken, but perhaps it might be best to just encourage people not to point out their own position on the color & caste hierarchy? otherwise, you get inversions where people rag on light-skin as sickly and stuff, which isn't nearly as problematic because light-skinned south asians have been told how awesome they are their own life, but is still pretty childish and unproductive in the long term.

I'm a medium-brown person, and I generally don't tan very easily. What makes me do double-takes after I've gotten a tan is not the darker color, per se, but the tan lines - the startling outline of a bathing suit or sandals on my body. You're right - it's not embarrassing, just unexpected.

And soberingly: Man gets 2-year jail for calling wife 'black' (New Delhi)

For a society often seen to reflect a deeply ingrained bias for "fair skin", a Supreme Court ruling sentencing a man to two years in jail for driving his wife to suicide following taunts over her "dark" complexion will serve as both a warning and a mirror to its uglier traits.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Man_gets_2-year_jail_for_calling_wife_black/rssarticleshow/2929487.cms

fair skinned people look dead to me.

For a society often seen to reflect a deeply ingrained bias for "fair skin", a Supreme Court ruling sentencing a man to two years in jail for driving his wife to suicide following taunts over her "dark" complexion will serve as both a warning and a mirror to its uglier traits.

Can somebody post the ruling? Would love to see the legal reasoning behind the sentence.

This is one of the those topics that marks us (abcd's) as irrevocably different from those who came before and those who will come after, ie; our kids (many of whom will be half-white, latino, asian, black, or whatever). As someone who grew up in the States with Malayali parents, I definitely received a pretty good indoctrination in the "light is right" school of thought, and certainly absorbed some of it early on, at long enough to remember dreams of myself being white as a little kid.

I have two sisters, one darker, one fairer. The darker skinned one is beautiful, far better looking than me or my other sister, but always got the "such a pretty girl, too bad she's so dark" comments. But Americans certainly had no problem figuring out that she was a stunner, and as adults none of the three of us have ever equated skin tone with attractiveness (except around Indian aunties of course.)

Both of my sisters are married to white Americans, so their kids range from light-ish brown to olive-y. I don't think that any of the kids ever even thinks about the color of their skin (although my nephew, as a baby, was worried about his dad feeling that he didn't fit in :).

I guess, at bottom, I feel that this is a conversation that is largely outdated in the U.S., although I appreciate Amardeep giving us a chance to discuss how stupid the syndrome is. It really is kind of embarrassing for those of us who have to explain it to our non-Desi ("no, Indians really aren't self haters, it just seems that way").

Suddenly, I'm in the mood for a black & tan.

I believe it imparts a character to ones complexion which being fair does not.

Exactly why I prefer black coffee over this new fangled fair-trade stuff.

My complexion is like a good wine. The body has well balanced, ripe, soft tannins, has a satisfying, mouth-filling texture, and boasts of a satisfying, lingering finish. It goes superbly with spicy dishes.

I guess, at bottom, I feel that this is a conversation that is largely outdated in the U.S., although I appreciate Amardeep giving us a chance to discuss how stupid the syndrome is. It really is kind of embarrassing for those of us who have to explain it to our non-Desi ("no, Indians really aren't self haters, it just seems that way").

i tend to agree with this. that being said, i think there is some nod that needs to be made to the psychological your-so-dark-and-oogly vibe which darker-skinned 1.5 & 2nd geners experienced. i also think that these issues won't be as salient in gens 3 on forward, because there needs to be a cultural context in which these biases express, and in the USA unless you are very light there is not much marginal difference in identity. the light-skinned brown is still a sand n*gger at the end of the day.

(p.s. also, i really don't think that this genre of dynamics will disappear in the mixed race, i had half-bengali & half-irish friends as a child, and the "white looking" one tended to be stereotypically more "all american" in their manner, while the "latino" looking one was more attached to his brown ancestry. i think how people treated them based on their look, ethnic or not, had an affect on how they saw themselves and responded)

a lot of spicy dishes go with white wine

I don't understand why some Indians want to look non-Indian i.e. so fair they are basically white people with dark hair and eyes. It's stupid.

I don't understand why some Indians want to look non-Indian i.e. so fair they are basically white people with dark hair and eyes. It's stupid.

you know why they want to look like that, or want to 'hit' people who look like that. that's good looking. attractive. just like most people don't want to be fat. the diff. between skin color and fat is that i think being dark isn't unhealthy, so there aren't exogenous reasons to be opposed to it, and there is probably a stronger cultural reason why color preferences exist (when i say fat, i mean shapeless obesity which is relatively common in the USA).

Reminds me of the time I asked my mother (I grew up in Madras), why she always said things like: "...xyz is very dark, but still beautiful/handsome" or "..it is so hard to pick up clothes for a darker person...". It is deeply ingrained! I suppose it started when the Aryans invaded India (!) and pushed the local Dravidians further and further south. Explains why I have heard a lot of North Indians ask, condescendingly, if I am a "Madrasi" (anyone south of the Vindhyas is a "Madrasi" for a person from the North). A friend of mine (also a Tamilian) who grew up in the North, has lots of stories to share about all the times she was made fun of for being dark!

No, I have never been embarassed about my brown skin. (actually, the "naturally wonderful tan" that I have -- this was the comment from a Canadian). When my husband and I drove from CA to MO one July, some years back, driving via AZ, CO...I found myself getting sun burnt! I found that amusing, as I did not realize that brown people could get sun burnt! :)

I hope that even sub-consciously, I (or my parents) do not pass on this "lighter is better" attitude.

BTW, brown rice, brown bread, brown pasta (brown-->whole grain) are healthier, far healthier compared to the white, refined versions! :D

the light-skinned brown is still a sand n*gger at the end of the day.

I grew up in India until I was 16 and I always loved getting tanned. My friends and I would go to Goa and lay in the sun for hours until we'd come back browner mixed in with shades of red. A tan isn't really about getting dark -- it's about adding more shades of color to your skin tone. So, I, for the most part thrived on it.

I hope that even sub-consciously, I (or my parents) do not pass on this "lighter is better" attitude.

i'm not sure, but i suspect that you can't pass it on sub-consciously. i think what happens is that conscious inputs eventually become internalized. if someone makes a proactive attempt not to promote a particular value system the internalization process might not occur (though one could model a situation where implicit cues are detected). i wonder if someone could do an 'implicit' test on this? i bet many brown americans would be pretty frazzled if 'you're kala! you're kala!' was flashed very quickly on the reason so that you couldn't see it consciously....

46 · -lostaddress said

I grew up in India until I was 16 and I always loved getting tanned. My friends and I would go to Goa and lay in the sun for hours until we'd come back browner mixed in with shades of red. A tan isn't really about getting dark -- it's about adding more shades of color to your skin tone. So, I, for the most part thrived on it.

Getting a tan is not about getting dark? Tans are about achieving a "glow"? Only Desis can come with these absurd rationalizations.

It is deeply ingrained! I suppose it started when the Aryans invaded India (!) and pushed the local Dravidians further and further south. Explains why I have heard a lot of North Indians ask, condescendingly, if I am a "Madrasi" (anyone south of the Vindhyas is a "Madrasi" for a person from the North). A friend of mine (also a Tamilian) who grew up in the North, has lots of stories to share about all the times she was made fun of for being dark!

The Scythians give us atrocious Karan Johar Bollywood, push us to Lemuria, pass a law making Hindi as national language, and then want us to sing Jaye He. No, no, no! Damn He!

It's funny how conditioning works.

My parents weren't very colour conscious, but I grew up in an environment where I was the only brown kid around and instead of going the whitewashed route, in my confusion I embraced hardcore Pan-Africanist ideologies. I think it's because I grew up in an era where Hip Hop was exploding and I was naturally drawn to the "cool" factor of AA culture.

Anyway, I can laugh about it now, but it has definitely impacted my preferences. To this day, I will not date a woman lighter than me and generally have an affinity for the darker hue, so yes, fair skinned people are effectively dead to me, lol.

It's funny how conditioning works.

By restoring the acidic pH.

I got sunburnt plenty of times, up to the point that the skin peeled off my nose. So yes browns can burn. I guess it's the harsher sun up here in Northern Europe.

29 · Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery said

Hmm...2 readers have self identified themselves as dark and 5 as light skinned. I think we are making progress. A couple of years back almost no one would call themselves 'dark' on here :)

Hella dark. Hella cool with it. Brown in da house;)

*Paging SM Intern* #53 -- I didn't intend for my email addy to appear with my comment. Can someone help me out?

39 · Rahul said

My complexion is like a good wine. The body has well balanced, ripe, soft tannins, has a satisfying, mouth-filling texture, and boasts of a satisfying, lingering finish. It goes superbly with spicy dishes.

I LOL'd here. Not too loud, not too soft. Just right.

It took a while, but I really love my darker skin (and perhaps as the ultimate sign of self-acceptance, prefer (not require) darker skin in partners). Although I still have those moments when my colour becomes an issue - e.g. my aunt in India who never fails to comment on how fair I used to be (I was - 28 years ago as a baby!). But those moments are rare and easy for me to shrug off now. Pretty much the only issue that I have with it that it is super-hard to find a match in make-up…

For my brother, though, it was much tougher growing up brown - he has very dark skin and was called all sorts of (racist) names through middle school, and I think it was really rough on him. One day he asked my mother why he was so much darker than the rest of us, and she told him it was because he ate so much chocolate. The kid was smart, though - he switched to white chocolate for a bit after, that ;) Oddly, he was the only one of us who, despite all the negative comments and having already-dark skin, wanted to go to the beach with the specific purpose of getting a tan 

hey. i haven't posted anything in a while but just wanted to weigh in a bit while fondly reminiscing about my time in LA. i LOVE getting browner tho i am a bit fairer than most (too northern in origin). my mom always kept us out of the sun. no swimming in the afternoon, no sitting out in teh sun, playing soccer growing up was - for her - a frustrating interest. but i also spent almost all my life in NY and PA and didn't really get all that much sun as school has taken over my life. i love getting tanner. i dont actively seek it out, but (despite getting occasionally burned) i definitely enjoy it and think i look and feel healthier. :)

My complexion is like a good wine. The body has well balanced, ripe, soft tannins, has a satisfying, mouth-filling texture, and boasts of a satisfying, lingering finish.

Rahoooool, this is what I'm hearing you say - note: THIS IS NOT A TRANSLATION

"OOOOooooooAAAAaaaaaah my skin is like fine Corinthian leather, eyes like two pools of 10W40, lips like two leeches makin' love oooooOOOOOOooooooAAAAaaaaAAAAh".

compare & contrast:
Anyway, I can laugh about it now, but it has definitely impacted my preferences. To this day, I will not date a woman lighter than me and generally have an affinity for the darker hue, so yes, fair skinned people are effectively dead to me, lol.

vs.

It took a while, but I really love my darker skin (and perhaps as the ultimate sign of self-acceptance, prefer (not require) darker skin in partners).

i'm sure the first comment was meant in jest, but inverting the harshness of brown colorism doesn't make it OK, does it? people can have their preferences, but shouldn't be civil about it and not assume that it has that great of a social or ontological importance? (i.e., i think it is someone's business what their aesthetic preferences are, but another thing if they talk about how great their preferences are).

i wonder if someone could design an IAT type test for colorism. i'm actually curious how prejudiced/biased i am toward lighter skin....

56 · ak said

It took a while, but I really love my darker skin (and perhaps as the ultimate sign of self-acceptance, prefer (not require) darker skin in partners). Although I still have those moments when my colour becomes an issue - e.g. my aunt in India who never fails to comment on how fair I used to be (I was - 28 years ago as a baby!). But those moments are rare and easy for me to shrug off now. Pretty much the only issue that I have with it that it is super-hard to find a match in make-up…

I've had amazing luck with the following:
Becca under eye concealer (Pecan works for me)
Bare Escentuals (I think I wear Warm Tan)

An acquaintance (another brown chick) went to the Loreal boutique in the Beverly Center and was able to find the perfect shade for a kick ass price. But I think Loreal only has one retail location in Los Angeles.

i don't see how i'm going to be able to enjoy my wine tonight, after #39.

dude, lol, who said anything about it being "great" or of any importance? it was just a comment on what i've "internalized".

what's okay and what isn't is up to you.

ok i'm more annoyed when people think that brown people can't get tan. because there's apparently only one shade of brown.

39 · Rahul said

My complexion is like a good wine. The body has well balanced, ripe, soft tannins, has a satisfying, mouth-filling texture, and boasts of a satisfying, lingering finish. It goes superbly with spicy dishes.

I'm a spicy dish, interested in exploring your mouth filling texture, and most importantly, a satisfying, lingering finish. Care to set up a tasting?

I love the water--swimming and I'm signing up for diving lessons. I love the outdoors--camping and hiking. I love soccer and basketball. I moved back to Hawaii a month ago. I am not really happy unless I'm in the water, something to do with me being a Pisces--or, so I've been told:).

I guess I could have been considered 'light-skinned' or at least 'not dark', as little as 4 weeks ago. I think my inability to figure out where I stood in the Indian hierarchy/skin-color classification system had a great deal to do with my moving to the tropics.

It's not just Indians who associate dark with poor. I'd say it cuts across cultures, mainly because dark is associated with physical labor.

I'm content being dark. Might not go as far in life, but I really couldn't give a shyt. I never saw being locked up in an office under flourescent lighting as being 'priveleged'.

I'd much rather be poor and dark out here than be rich and light-skinned on the mainland.

64 · portmanteau said

Care to set up a tasting?

You realize Port, that wine tastings are customarily done in Flights:

Tasting flight is a term used by wine tasters to describe a selection of wines, usually between three and eight glasses, but sometimes as many as fifty, presented for the purpose of sampling and comparison.

66 · Manju said

You realize Port, that wine tastings are customarily done in Flights:

Majnu, uh, Manju, is that a hint? Or only a flight of fancy?

Razib:

There IS an IAT for skin tone/color over at implicit.harvard.edu:

Skin-tone ('Light Skin - Dark Skin' IAT). This IAT requires the ability to recognize light and dark-skinned faces. It often reveals an automatic preference for light-skin relative to dark-skin.

May be correlated with the IAT for race:

Race ('Black - White' IAT). This IAT requires the ability to distinguish faces of European and African origin. It indicates that most Americans have an automatic preference for white over black.

It's not just Indians who associate dark with poor. I'd say it cuts across cultures, mainly because dark is associated with physical labor.

yes. following pingpong's comment, i knew of the results generally. lighter skin seems to add some marginal value for immigrants ceteris peribus in terms of income generation. that being said, i wonder how strong the effect is with south asians specifically? most east/southeast asians i know are color conscious (if i know them long enough the brown [though not white-brunette skinned ones] always note that they are lighter than i am, suggesting that they've 'ranked' themselves), i wonder if IAT would show a weaker or stronger or same effect?

67 · portmanteau said

Manju, is that a hint? Or only a flight of fancy?

Just fancy, Port. I'd never cross Rahul...especially when he's holding his sword.

I had a strange experience in the IAT - the skin tone IAT was "No result" (too many errors), which I've read normally happens when the two things you're asked to associate are totally orthogonal in your mind, so you can't switch fast enough. But I did the Presidential candidate IAT just for kicks, and got a weak preference for Hillary over Obama, which I thought was weird. There was one photo of Obama where he looks really tired and sweaty, and I kept sending that to the "bad" bin even if I was supposed to send it to the "good" bin, and I didn't have this trouble with the better-posed pictures of Obama. Unconscious bias against tired, sweaty people?

At least they didn't show a picture of a Bosnian sniper with a bowling ball.

What's up Deemz!

You're a stud, my man. I wish that we saw more Indian heroes like you on Bollywood! I'm proud about your pride in your color. Keep up the brownness!

30 · deemz said

being punjabi/potohari, i love getting a tan and getting that "golden-brown" hue ( http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8826/deemzot9.jpg - i am vain, i think look better with some colour ). how anybody finds fair-yellowish skin attractive is beyond me, especially in this day and age when the advantages of dark skin color are a lower incidence of skin cancer and fewer wrinkles.

fair skinned people look dead to me.

Pan African culture...swarthy girls...bro, you're my long-lost brother!!!

As a kid, I was so black (and proud) that I thought the Jeffersons was Reality TV. Man, I confused shadows back then.

50 · deemz said

It's funny how conditioning works.

My parents weren't very colour conscious, but I grew up in an environment where I was the only brown kid around and instead of going the whitewashed route, in my confusion I embraced hardcore Pan-Africanist ideologies. I think it's because I grew up in an era where Hip Hop was exploding and I was naturally drawn to the "cool" factor of AA culture.

Anyway, I can laugh about it now, but it has definitely impacted my preferences. To this day, I will not date a woman lighter than me and generally have an affinity for the darker hue, so yes, fair skinned people are effectively dead to me, lol.

The desire to be light-skinned is always there amongst Indians, I've noticed. Like Deemz, I was very proud to be dark (in American standards). My ancestors were the darkest-skinned people of all South Asia, and I'm keenly aware of the racism that they face from N. Indians.

I just hope that Indians start loving the Brown, and start having brown actresses/actors, instead of Afghani imports (i.e. Saif Ali, SRK, Amir are all part Pashtun) or biracial girls (i.e. Preity Zinta is part British and Rajput). Why not fit South Indian guys (not the moustache-man doing the funny dance, but the studs we see in college every once in a while) or a swarthy Punjabi, like Kapil Dev?

While we're at it, why not start depicting our gods/goddesses as brown or black? I'm sick of blue-eyed, white-skinned Indian goddesses/gods and white elephants. Heck, even the Chinese depict their Buddhas with Oriental features, whereas Indians make him look like a Bohemian, even though Buddha was Nepali/Bihari.

I don't think that the issue of fairness of skin is something that Indians from the desh have a monopoly on. For those that do not know me (everyone lol), I'm from the Caribbean, my mum is Indian and my dad is black, and when I say black I mean it not only to point out his ethnicity, but his colouring, daddy is very very dark, and my mum is extremely light, both my brothers and my sister inherited her colouring and I came out a perfect blend of both their colours. I swear growing up I thought her full time job was keeping out of the sun..in Jamaica! I had to take an umbrella to school and use it all day, lol. So I grew up never really going out in the sun for fear of how she would groan and sigh if I came home "too dark", which, I don't know, seems kind of hypocritical considering she got married to a man of African decent. I've slowly over the years been venturing out into the sun, because I've found while I don't really tan, that is get darker, unless I immerse myself in sunshine for a prolonged period, I do turn into a rather golden brown which is sexy, lol. A few years ago I went to Florida for six weeks and spent the entire time outside in my sisters pool, I came back about 3 shades darker, when I stepped off the plane first words out of my mums mouth were, "oh my god what happened to you?, why you so black!" That's embarrassing, I just rolled my eyes and walked over and hugged my niece.

Wow, I feel like such an outsider.

I'm pretty pale for a Punjabi. Nobody (non desis that is) ever thinks I'm Indian, a lot of people assume I'm Italian because of my lighter complexion and dark hair/eyes. Growing up in a diverse area where most people were some shade of brown (Mestizo Mexicans, Filipinos, SE Asians, Black/White mixed kids, Pac Islanders, etc), getting a tan in the summer was a positive thing for me. It meant I wouldn't stand out so much, that I would actually look more Indian (stereotypically, that is.)

Nowadays, I'm fine with my natural skintone and getting a tan, no embarassment at all. It just sucks having to buy new foundation.

74 · boston_mahesh said

The desire to be light-skinned is always there amongst Indians, I've noticed. Like Deemz, I was very proud to be dark (in American standards). My ancestors were the darkest-skinned people of all South Asia, and I'm keenly aware of the racism that they face from N. Indians.

I just hope that Indians start loving the Brown, and start having brown actresses/actors, instead of Afghani imports (i.e. Saif Ali, SRK, Amir are all part Pashtun) or biracial girls (i.e. Preity Zinta is part British and Rajput). Why not fit South Indian guys (not the moustache-man doing the funny dance, but the studs we see in college every once in a while) or a swarthy Punjabi, like Kapil Dev?

While we're at it, why not start depicting our gods/goddesses as brown or black? I'm sick of blue-eyed, white-skinned Indian goddesses/gods and white elephants. Heck, even the Chinese depict their Buddhas with Oriental features, whereas Indians make him look like a Bohemian, even though Buddha was Nepali/Bihari.

Not all Pashtuns are Afghan, many live in Paksitani...you do realize that region was once apart of British India, right? I don't see how they would be considered mixed then. I've never heard of Zinta being part British, and I'm pretty sure Rajputs are Indian too. I'm sick of desis who don't even know about their own heritage.

A PSA:

If you are like me and never get sunburned, you might not be producing enough Vitamin D -- the same UVB radiation that causes sunburns is also necessary to produce Vitamin D in your skin. If you have aches and pains or chronic fatigue and depression that doesn't respond to antidepressants, get your Vitamin D levels checked ...

If you live at high latitudes you might need supplements; if you live in a southern, sunny, warm locale, just expose more of yourself :)

this study from last year says skin tone affects earnings for immigrants in the US:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/26/AR2007012601202.html
Light-skinned immigrants in the United States make more money on average than those with darker complexions, and the chief reason appears to be discrimination, a researcher says.

however, i have not found this to be true based on the earnings of my friends of different hues. have any of you noticed any correlation between income and skin tone in the US?

very honest post.

On occasion, over the past couple of days since coming back, I’ve found myself feeling slightly embarrassed to be so tan — as if part of me is thinking, “wait, everyone, this isn’t my normal skin tone!” And then I’m immediately embarrassed to be embarrassed

Being Punjabi, I am pretty fair and that comes from both sides of the family and being fair is desired in my family. Being Punjabi, while growing up I could not get away from the belief that fair is beautiful. being punjabi/potohari, i love getting a tan and getting that "golden-brown" hue

Living in California I never substantially lost my tan, although it did wane in winter. Now that I'm in New England I've learned the true horror of losing one's tan over winter. As far as I'm concerned, I look like a freak. Maybe this is similar to the experience you had, Amardeep, where you felt your tan was not your own?

I don't understand why some Indians want to look non-Indian i.e. so fair they are basically white people with dark hair and eyes. It's stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJ2R9klq8E&feature=related

This is whats dark skinned means. Matara, Sri Lanka.
Additional bonus, Sinhalese interpretation of Kavadi music.
Portugese trumpets instead of saxaphone.
Youll hear this music at cricket matches.

72 · boston_mahesh said

fair skinned people look dead to me.

but are you into necrophilia?

70 · Manju said

I'd never cross Rahul...especially when he's holding his sword.

C'mon Manju, maybe your pen is mightier than Rahul's sword?

ps: I'm dying to respond to your thoughtful capitalism/democracy comment, but I'm exhausted. I will get to it as soon as I can.

I guess I just don't get it. why not be happy with what you have? I think darker skin is gorgeous but is it really worth the skin damage to sit outside for the mere purpose of getting darker? on that note, its equally bizarre to apply carcinogenic lightening creams in a bid to be lighter. I had a friend succumb to skin cancer at 19 and it was enough for me to realize that these shenanigans are simply not worth it. you won't catch me without sunblock and I love being outside in the woods and the beach

Deemz, I find it fascinating that you would draw a Punjabi/Potohari distinction. Are you non-Muslim?(you don't have to answer if you don't want) If so that means your family left Potohar region (which is more or less Rawalpindi and its surrounding areas) in 1947. That area did have a high number of Sikhs/Hindus before 1947, and even the culture of its Muslims had a strong Hindu influence, but I have NEVER met an ABD (unless Pakistani Muslim) who knows what a 'Potohari' is...if you actually know that term you are more aware than most. Most people in the post-partition context in India (or ABDs of Indian background) just say Punjabi.

Potohar region has the famous ruins of Katas Raj (Hindu temples) as well as quite a few Sikh shrines, some in complete ruin just 60 years post-Partition.

Potohar region also has its own language (or dialect of Punjabi depending on how you look at it).

"OOOOooooooAAAAaaaaaah my skin is like fine Corinthian leather, eyes like two pools of 10W40, lips like two leeches makin' love oooooOOOOOOooooooAAAAaaaaAAAAh".

And my nose so big you can park a fleet of Cordobas on it. (Ed. -- say this in a voice as rich as molten chocolate for maximum effect).

I'd never cross Rahul...especially when he's holding his sword.

Manju, I have people hold my sword for me. Hope you find solace in a double bottom.

64 · portmanteau said

I'm a spicy dish, interested in exploring your mouth filling texture, and most importantly, a satisfying, lingering finish. Care to set up a tasting?

I would never ever say no to an aftertaste of port, preceded by a delicious meal replete with an aroma of nuts and the wafting bouquet of cherry.

I think it's because I grew up in an era where Hip Hop was exploding and I was naturally drawn to the "cool" factor of AA culture.

I think that you can say that about most punjabi youth in North America who think that they are Biggie or Tupac.Yet most of these kids grow up in middle or upper class backgrounds.

I just don't understand if you embrace the black culture that it's Ok and cool thing to do, but if you become a metal head or Alt-rocker type you are called whitewashed or sellout. I just love the double standard.

Hmm...2 readers have self identified themselves as dark and 5 as light skinned. I think we are making progress. A couple of years back almost no one would call themselves 'dark' on here :

And when one sees those identifying themselves as fair/light-skinned in person or in pictures it just makes one laugh. If you are not jet black in India you are "fair" or "wheatish" it seems. Whats bizarre is that this is coming from desis who live in the west among a majority that is truly light-skinned, compared to whom the "fair and wheatish" indians are pretty much darkies and often called by that N word. Its so silly to see desis talking about getting golden tans, turning bright red etc. Get real. You arent fooling anyone. You dont turn golden or bright red when you start out as brown or black. The word tan means brown. Non-brown people like whites and yellows get tans. Desis just get even darker.

This could all be dismissed as harmless self-delusion except that its not. It speaks of a deep-seated self-loathing and inferiority complex that manifests itself in contempt for each other based on a metric in which desis are congenitally handicapped to begin with. It just makes desis look pitiful and contemptible.

87 · Rahul said

And my nose so big you can park a fleet of Cordobas on it. (Ed. -- say this in a voice as rich as molten chocolate for maximum effect).

Finally, a man who can satisfy two women at once.
Right, bess? I'll share if you will :)

90 · Vyasa said

The word tan means brown. Non-brown people like whites and yellows get tans. Desis just get even darker.

I suppose going the way the word "tan" is often used in this context, such as "I need to get a tan" or "I got a tan," it was the most appropriate word to use for getting darker in skin color as opposed to getting darker in mood. As I said before Indian people generally tend to say "you got darker" and American's say "you got tan." I don't think there is a notable difference from getting tan and getting darker(obviously EVERYONE gets darker when they get a tan) nor is it some sort of delusion.

Who knew this post would be so popular as to elicit this many comments. Awesome.

Finally, a man who can satisfy two women at once. Right, bess? I'll share if you will :)

I can share, sweet porto, but I call the Moby first! ; )

Also, I've read that the Gypsies came from Potohari plateau of Punjab. This, I find amazing.

86 · Amitabh said

Deemz, I find it fascinating that you would draw a Punjabi/Potohari distinction. Are you non-Muslim?(you don't have to answer if you don't want) If so that means your family left Potohar region (which is more or less Rawalpindi and its surrounding areas) in 1947. That area did have a high number of Sikhs/Hindus before 1947, and even the culture of its Muslims had a strong Hindu influence, but I have NEVER met an ABD (unless Pakistani Muslim) who knows what a 'Potohari' is...if you actually know that term you are more aware than most. Most people in the post-partition context in India (or ABDs of Indian background) just say Punjabi.

Potohar region has the famous ruins of Katas Raj (Hindu temples) as well as quite a few Sikh shrines, some in complete ruin just 60 years post-Partition.

Potohar region also has its own language (or dialect of Punjabi depending on how you look at it).

89 · Suki Dillon said

I think it's because I grew up in an era where Hip Hop was exploding and I was naturally drawn to the "cool" factor of AA culture.

I think that you can say that about most punjabi youth in North America who think that they are Biggie or Tupac.Yet most of these kids grow up in middle or upper class backgrounds.

I just don't understand if you embrace the black culture that it's Ok and cool thing to do, but if you become a metal head or Alt-rocker type you are called whitewashed or sellout. I just love the double standard.

Not what I meant. I wasn't into "rap" for the aesthetic. What hip hop did for me was provide a gateway into a way of thinking and viewing the world that was decidely pro-black/non-white and arguably anti-white. At the tender age of twelve, when I first read the Autobiography of Malcolm X, it blew my mind that there was an alternate way of thinking from the latent but always looming white superority that I was immersed in. So I became quite political and militant in my points of view. I read the books of Cheikh Anta Diop and Ivan Van Ivan Sertima which argued for the cultural unity of African peoples and of a global African community that included the dravidian "blacks" of India. So to me, it was much more than aping the superficial aspects of popular AA culture and listening to biggie and tupac, while simultaeonusly referring to blacks as "gorillas" under their breath as many brown kids in fact do.

It was much more than that.

It was about trying to find a rhyme or reason to the world, where race just became so obsessively important to me. I could see race in everything, from why poverty was the norm in parts of the world where darker skin predominated and why there was wealth in the west, where whiteness ruled to why barbie was idealized. Also I think it has something to do with my family background. I came from a rural, working class background. We were not "uppity" desis, we were the grunts from the pind. Yes, my dad was intelligent and by his work and determination ended up in the western world, but we always knew where we came from and how important it was for us to continue to be able to relate that. So when we went to the old country, we would live in the pind, we would use the public transport, we would see the abuse of dark skinned people even within our own families. So I always recognized the inherent racist and classist tendencies of my own community and I was sensitive to it. I could only relate to the underclass because that's where I came from.

As I've matured, I think I've taken on a much more intelligent stance towards race and try not to tie it to every issue under the sun. So I'd like to think I have a less of pathology now, but hey, maybe not...lol

And finally, to me being whitewashed isn't about the style of music you listen to or the clothes that you wear, but of being disconnected from your own culture and accepting western culture as its superior. It's also about being wholly ignorant and insulated from the world and assuming western values are universal (or should be). I won't attach a positive or negative connotation to this definition of whiteness, it's just how I feel about it.

86 · Amitabh said

Deemz, I find it fascinating that you would draw a Punjabi/Potohari distinction. Are you non-Muslim?(you don't have to answer if you don't want) If so that means your family left Potohar region (which is more or less Rawalpindi and its surrounding areas) in 1947. That area did have a high number of Sikhs/Hindus before 1947, and even the culture of its Muslims had a strong Hindu influence, but I have NEVER met an ABD (unless Pakistani Muslim) who knows what a 'Potohari' is...if you actually know that term you are more aware than most. Most people in the post-partition context in India (or ABDs of Indian background) just say Punjabi.

Potohar region has the famous ruins of Katas Raj (Hindu temples) as well as quite a few Sikh shrines, some in complete ruin just 60 years post-Partition.

Potohar region also has its own language (or dialect of Punjabi depending on how you look at it).

Well, I'm from a muslim background, so I am Pakistani. I'm well aware that there was sizeable Hindu/Sikh population partition. My great-uncle has a scar in his from an axe whilst trying to protect the Sikhs in his village. Anyway, I have some older generation Sikhs that migrated from the region to India. They told me that they are referred to as "Papas" in East Punjab, but have more less assimilated like the Muslims that came from the Indian punjab to Pakistan have. They still have warm memories of the region though. Partition, IMO, was a crime but hey, that's history :(

I like mentioning that I from the Potohar. I take some pride that my roots are from that region and that we continue to maintain our own unique dialect against the on-slaught of Urdu, English, and "standard" Lahori Punjabi. I am very interested in knowing about the pre-muslim history of the region, but it's so very hard to come by.

93 · bess montalbánullaxxed said

I can share, sweet porto, but I call the Moby first! ; )

ladies first, tarts to follow :)

I agree, it is not the 'skin tone bias' issue, it is more of 'oh no, why do I suddenly have this mole on my face' issue...or even 'oh no, this hair cut was such a bad idea' issue :-)

do not be embarassed brother, we all do it, sometime or the other.

AMFD writes: >>A couple of years back almost no one would call themselves 'dark' on here

Since the last three years of my SM existence, I've consistently shown my dark side.

M. Nam

“I'm sick of blue-eyed, white-skinned Indian goddesses/gods”

Largest temple in NY, oldest in US: Flushing: Main Deity: Ganesh Black Granite
Largest temple in NJ: Bridgewater: Main Deity: Balaji: Black Granite
Largest temple in PA: Pittsburgh: Main Deity: Balaji: Black Granite

Temple with most worshipers in India: Tirupati Main Deity: Balaji: Black Granite

Where do you come up with whole blue eyed thing?

If you are so bothered about blue –eyed gods, learn more about your own culture – ask your family about your family deity for example. I bet you will like the results.

As for actors: Our Rajni is the equal of more than a hundred so called North Indian Heros. Mind it :-).

Deemz (#95), solid comments. Although personally I like most white people just fine.

So to me, it was much more than aping the superficial aspects of popular AA culture and listening to biggie and tupac, while simultaeonusly referring to blacks as "gorillas" under their breath as many brown kids in fact do.

Alot of them also use a certain N-word over and over again, And they speak in that mix of punjabi-ebonics-english hybrid which is very painful to the ears.

And finally, to me being whitewashed isn't about the style of music you listen to or the clothes that you wear, but of being disconnected from your own culture and accepting western culture as its superior. It's also about being wholly ignorant and insulated from the world and assuming western values are universal (or should be). I won't attach a positive or negative connotation to this definition of whiteness, it's just how I feel about it.

Well then this is an issue that we disagree on. I guess with the things that I have had to go through with my life has led me become to believe that people need to make some effort to intergrate and asslimate into western society. I just get annoyed how many times I hear people who from a middle east/south asian background and when they get to the west talk about how the western country has no culture and how things are much better back home.

Living in Vancouver which has the biggest south asian population in North America, I get frustrated at how many of the people who have come in the last decade are living in 1950's punjabi village view of the world.

Hey Suki,

I don't think we disagree all that much. I actually agree with you that people should "make some effort to intergrate and asslimate into western society", but at the same time, not to the point where you forget where you came from and shun your own cultural inheritance. That just seems like a tremendous waste to me. Again, people are free to do whatever I want...

But the way I see it is that living in the western world is a great opportunity, to pick and choose your values, to explore different cultures, to sit back and reflect on the good and bad of your own mother culture, and to share with others.

Of course that can't be done if you only want to stay around your "own kind". But it also can't be done if you want to live exactly like the mainstream to the point where you are embarassed of your own people, or whatever.

There's got to be some balance.

So I choose to cherish my cultural heritage AND my upbringing in the West.. I would like to think it's given me a broader understanding of the human condition and made me into a more thoughful person.

&nd for the record I don't hate white people, some of my best friends are white, hahaha

Of course that can't be done if you only want to stay around your "own kind". But it also can't be done if you want to live exactly like the mainstream to the point where you are embarassed of your own people, or whatever.

My main issue is the that I live in Canada and have alot of family in the United States. My family in the States has done a perfect balance of the two cultures. Where as in Canada, alot of the punjabi immigrants make no effort to learn anything about Canada. They move into all punjabi neighborhoods, shop in punjabi markets, get there satellite dishs for the indian channels and make no effort to learn english, cause they don't need to.

One thing I have noticed is that of all the western countries, t