The Washington Redskins’ cheerleaders recently performed in Hyderabad Bangalore, during an Indian Premier League cricket match. A Washington Post reporter took the following photo:
(Click on the photo to see the faces of the men a bit more clearly.)
There is also a detailed Washington Post article about the event here. Also, we wrote about the rival Twenty20 cricket league, the ICL, here; cheerleaders seemed to be a part of the mix there as well.
I dont know about others but whenever I see a shot of those imported-cheerleaders cheering at the T20 game, I cringe. I feel embarrased to see that on TV, I havent psycho-analyzed my feelings about this, but what I know is that it is a very unsettling image for me.
"Dinesh, these cheerleaders' skins aren't red!"
"Shut up, Raj. Just keep smiling! It'll be a lonnnnng time before we see hot, sexy half-naked women in a public place, up close again."
wah, wah.
Gori, Gori, Mella Chori, Chori
"You know Shankar, I always wondered what full-on cultural colonialism with racial overtones would actually look like up close. Now I know."
"You're right, Bala. What about our own homegrown pom-pom squads? What are they to feel, huh?"
Can't resist one more.
"Ramu, is this what Kishore Mahbubani had in mind when he says 'a turbulent era of de-Westernization has begun in Asia' in his new book?"
"Possibly. But remember Mohan, he also said that India's propensity to keep both eyes and ears open, and engage with other civilizations will eventually situate it equidistant between the West and the Rest of the East."
(Thanks to Bobby32 and the news tab!)
"Whew! I'm glad that fence is up to prevent them from attacking us. I mean, those girls look dangerous."
"What are those words printed on her shirt?"
"See, Raj, American colonialism is way differnent than British."
"Wow! They are really hot."
"Yeah, especially the guy in the back row."
"Clad only in the finest of Werther's Originals Summer Collection, the transplanted Red Injin CheerMongers pummeled the air with lusty blows fit for the darkest corner of the Shah's Harem"
--Orientalist Ad Agency.
I realize that native Bangaloreans are bitter about this, but they are just clinging to trishuls or religion or antipathy to people who are not like them as a way to explain their frustrations.
"'Mericans - named after Indians - Doing the jobs that Indian citizens refuse to do!"
It must be the closet thing to Playboy for these guys.
Give me a K! Give me an L! Give me a P! Give me a D!
Either the middle cheerleader has two heads and four feet, or there is some horizontal figure-of-eight action going on.
From the article Rahul posted (@11), this bit was just to good pass up:
In Punjab, however, people are less critical about the idea of cheerleaders.
"It will be pleasing to watch the cheerleaders in all their glory," said dentist Gurpreet Singh, adding, "They will add colour and impudence to the game."
Suresh, standing, white shirt: "I have B.Sc. in E-Comm! Fust class fust! Caste no bar!"
(pre-game) Dinesh to Raj: We are going to meet all the bitches tonight.
(pre-game) Dinesh to Raj: We are going to meet all the bitches tonight.
And Raj to Dinesh: "and I am Santa Clause"
"Um Cindy?"
"What Susie?"
"I think, like, these are are the wrong Indians. The one on our team's helmets has feathers, not dots. And the skin in the stands is brown, not red."
"Why is that one guy holding up a sign that says 'caste no bra?"
Rahul S: "Yaar, I'm only here for academic purposes. Just want to see how many of those girls are Hindu and/or Gujarati."
Facing growing opposition from Native American groups, Redskin's representatives lobby Indians for permission to use "Brownskins." Crowd inexplicably yells back; "Wheatskins!"
...i like potato skins.
22 · Manju said
Facing growing opposition from Native American groups, Redskin's representatives lobby Indians for permission to use "Brownskins." Crowd inexplicably yells back; "Wheatskins!"
Hilarious. You (here) pingpong, and Rahul S (on the miniskirts thread) are making my day. Yes, I have a pathetic life.
Hot professors travel to India seeking RAs. "This is not what I intended," laments Portmanteau.
Manju is on FIRE!
"Oye Raj, is that Bal Thackeray in a burqa ogling the cheerleaders?"
"Papa-ji, this is so much better than the time you took us to the zoo to see the baboons."
[loud whistle] "Psst...Look here, Miss..MISS...MY NAME IS MANJU TOO. COINCIDENCE...I THINK NOT!" [thrusts pelvis]
Globalization works both ways. Outsourcing cheerleading operations to the US is such a big hit in India!
11 · Rahul said
I realize that native Bangaloreans are bitter about this, but they are just clinging to trishuls or religion or antipathy to people who are not like them as a way to explain their frustrations.
Sorry, I find the whole concept of "cheerleading" in professional sports very sexist. I don't understand why the protests are just being brushed off. Sure the fundamentalists are protesting, but so are the women groups. It's so easy to brush off the protests because Hindu fundamentalists are taking part in it. And to be honest, some of the points they are making do gel with the arguments the Women's groups are making.
Sorry, "cheerleading" in professional sports really don't need to be expanded to India.
But the actual reasons are not going to matter to anyone I guess. It's just going to be seen as outdated Indians protesting some great American tradition. Please.
i bet the men there were disgusted by such slutty behavior and untanned skin.
"Susie, I think I see the guy who helped me figure out how to work my Tivo."
24 · portmanteau said
22 · Manju said
Facing growing opposition from Native American groups, Redskin's representatives lobby Indians for permission to use "Brownskins." Crowd inexplicably yells back; "Wheatskins!"
Hilarious. You (here) pingpong, and Rahul S (on the miniskirts thread) are making my day. Yes, I have a pathetic life.
That's sad. Maybe you should hang out with those Gujrati Indian girls to learn how to spice up your life.
"DING"
Susie, I think I see the guy who helped me figure out how to work my Tivo put up my webpage.
Son turning to Father: "This is why I must go to America. I will make you proud and marry a cheerleader who can make aloo paranthas."
"Washington sends highly persuasive representatives to build consensus for nuclear deal."
The cheerleaders are jumping for joy because they are probably getting more money doing these side projects compared to their salary earned in US games.
Maybe you should hang out with those Gujrati Indian girls to learn how to spice up your life.
They broke my heart. Sluts.
The only comment that made sense was 31 (de-lurker)
Amardeep, what do you mean by "Click on the photo to see the faces of the men a bit more clearly"? Would you type that for an NFL game? A suggestion for your next caption-this: Post a picture of Indian men watching Angelina Jolie strip on screen.
Btw, with minor changes, most of the comments above would work for any game in any country.
Sri
PS: The photo is definitely not from a Hyderabad match. The only matches so far have been in Bangalore, Delhi and Mohali.
I cringed at the cheerleader bit (of course Vijay Mallya brought them in!) and thought the WaPo article was painfully ignorant (claiming a normal match lasts seven days, and pitching Twenty20 as a sign of brash new liberalized India, as if One Day Cricket hadn't taken hold almost thirty years ago!), and I particularly snorted at the claim in that breathlessly naive, exoticizing, saris vs skin article that "this was more skin than most Indian men would see before marriage," because our item girls do no mean job of giving men their pre-nuptial kicks either. But all the men around me in India remarked on the cheerleaders and I realised it's really very aspirational, the idea that "we" can get "safed chamra" to come and dance for us, sort of a porn fantasy come true for Indian men.
@Sri - yes, that was Bangalore, not Hyderabad.
@SP - have you seen the number of 'safed chamras' (but only women) in your average Bollywood song & dance number, or a music video?
Will there be any matches in Ahmedabad? Maybe we can have our very own Borat sing the Khazak national anthem & praise that other Mr. Modi's war of terror...
This thread has made my day wonly saar. Deee-lishh.
The photo is definitely not from HYD. And it smacks of V. Mallya's ...errrrrrr... class.
I'm a non-bitter native Indian Bangalorean. I'm rooting for the show of more skin - the arugument being: the more skin they see, the less they'll eventually harass 'woh sleeveless ladki cheeeee chheee shameless' on Indian streets.
I'm rooting for the show of more skin
Generally, showing more skin influences one's frequency of rooting too. Too many puns. My "head" hertz.
Tipu, very good point about safed chamra in item numbers - which I also see as a similarly aspirational phenomenon, similar to the popularity of Eastern European belly dancers in the Gulf and other parts of the Middle East.
From the article
It condenses nearly a week of match play into three hours, with shorter "overs," which are similar to innings in baseball.
Will there be any matches in Ahmedabad? Maybe we can have our very own Borat sing the Khazak national anthem & praise that other Mr. Modi's war of terror...Is irrelavant flame bait for a fluff piece really needed?
My "head" hertz.I guess Rahul was right.
Actual reasons may vary. For instance, it's equally probable that since the Number Two tries harder, the Number One hertz.
Can bollywood handle this competition from the west for the ogling eyes of indian men?
"Cheering ladies versus leering chaddies."
15 · pingpong said
Either the middle cheerleader has two heads and four feet, or there is some horizontal figure-of-eight action going on.
lol i think its just the angle they are standing in and the angle the photographer was in made it look like that.
Ok, I'll add one, lame as it may be:
Raj: These cheerleaders are so hot! Especially the one on the left...she's a 6!!
Cheerleader: This is totally a harsh crowd. I know I'm at least an 8, but no one is giving me anything better than a 6!
NFL cheerleaders don't get paid right? So did they get paid for this gig by Mallya or did the Redskins get paid? Such a sexually repressed lot we are in India. So little in India whether it is a basic thing such as sanitation or the law, or working hours, is written with women in mind. India's record with womens' welfare is the pits, and all the more glaring because of high flown rhetoric. This is insultig to women in India. Such a terrible thing. As for WashPo and competence, when it comes to India or Hinduism it is not required.
From the Wapo article:
"The cheerleaders are heroes in their ability to make people excited," exclaimed the merry Kerala, a 30-year-old doctor of traditional ayurvedic medicine, as friends crowded around him, cheering in agreement. "They have great spirit."
An Ayurvedic doc called Kerala, and a merry one at that. Ladies and Gentlemen, Emily Wax has efortlessly adapted to life in fantastic India
56 · jyotsana said
NFL cheerleaders don't get paid right? So did they get paid for this gig by Mallya or did the Redskins get paid? Such a sexually repressed lot we are in India. So little in India whether it is a basic thing such as sanitation or the law, or working hours, is written with women in mind. India's record with womens' welfare is the pits, and all the more glaring because of high flown rhetoric. This is insultig to women in India. Such a terrible thing. As for WashPo and competence, when it comes to India or Hinduism it is not required.
How are cheerleaders insulting to Indian women?
Working Hours! And working hours in the rest of the corporate world are women friendly? At peak periods you have extremely long hours in most companies and most countries.
Melissa, looks like we are the only women in the stadium.
M. Nam
"This is the spectacularization of the game of cricket. One-third of these people are here to see the cheerleaders," said Boria Majumdar, a sports historian and a commentator for India's TimesNow news channel. He was conducting live interviews from the stadium. "Sexuality and cricket is the way forward. And it's time India wakes up to the fact that it's a different society. It's a modern society. There's no use keeping it all under wraps."
That plagiarist Boria is spewing nonsense.
And from that ultimate cheerleader movie, Bring It On, here is The Toro's cheer:
I'm sexy, I'm cute, / I'm popular to boot.
I'm bitchin', great hair, / The boys all love to stare, / I'm wanted, I'm hot, / I'm everything you're not, / I'm pretty, I'm cool, / I dominate the school, / Who am I? Just guess, / Guys wanna touch my chest, / I'm rockin', I smile, / And many think I'm vile, / I'm flyin', I jump, / You can look but don't you hump, / Whoo / I'm major, I roar, / I swear I'm not a whore, / We cheer and we lead, / We act like we're on speed, / You hate us 'cause we're beautiful, / Well we don't like you either, / We're cheerleaders, / We are cheerleaders.
40 · portmanteau said
34 · Rahul S said
Maybe you should hang out with those Gujrati Indian girls to learn how to spice up your life.
They broke my heart. Sluts.
Allright. Forget about those sluts. Perhaps you should participate in the entrepreneurial spirit.
De-lurker, liked the point you made.
India does need to become more liberal in thought and I am quite happy with the so-called "Western influence" in some spheres. However, it always troubles me when people confuse women's empowerment with Western culture--they don't seem to see that some Western practices lead back to the same problem.
Allright. Forget about those sluts. Perhaps you should participate in the entrepreneurial spirit.
Done and done.
Dude, back row in the middle.
De-lurker, liked the point you made.
India does need to become more liberal in thought and I am quite happy with the so-called "Western influence" in some spheres. However, it always troubles me when people confuse women's empowerment with Western culture--they don't seem to see that some Western practices lead back to the same problem.
Westernization without modernization!
Westernization without modernization!
True...if such "cheerleading" activities make women more as objects in the eyes of masses then there is no true liberalism or progress. But if these cheerleaders inculcate an atmosphere of freedom for Indian women to make a choice and engender a dignity for any profession/labour then this is not bad. On a more philosophical and moral note I think cheerleading falls in the same category as other controversial issues like the long working hours in Bombay bars and dance clubs or the role of women in (legal) prostitution and pornography in any country.
66 · Bridget Jones said
65 · Rahul S said
Westernization without modernization!
True...if such "cheerleading" activities make women more as objects in the eyes of masses then there is no true liberalism or progress. But if these cheerleaders inculcate an atmosphere of freedom for Indian women to make a choice and engender a dignity for any profession/labour then this is not bad. On a more philosophical and moral note I think cheerleading falls in the same category as other controversial issues like the long working hours in Bombay bars and dance clubs or the role of women in (legal) prostitution and pornography in any country.
Your saying that "cheerleading" is going to help Indian women out. Really? Men are really sexually deprived there. These "girls" are going to be treated as ass. Look at western culture. It's morally degrading. Why do you think Muslim countries despise the West (because they're successful and the cultural left promotes morally degrading behavior) Once you go to conservative cultures like India, and introduce this, it'll become like the West. Cheating on your spouse is allright, abortions are fine, divorces are great, etc. Look at the divorce rate of my parents generation (Indian immigrants..pretty low). Once my generation starts marrying, I guarantee you that the divorce is going to go up. I know a bunch of family friends who have kids, and they've started divorcing like crazy. Maybe, the form of liberalism that you want to help your lady chicks is to advocate education that was limited to women before. Indra K. Nooyi is a good model. Western culture will make more girls skanks in Bharat.
Hi all,
First off, I know a lot of the twenty-somethings (going by displayed levels of immaturity) will howl "Pardesi Gori" the moment they get past the first sentenc. Well, you can insist I am her, but as far as I know, I don't think I'm her. However, the PG-spotters seem to be a perseverant and astute bunch, so I'm sure they'd be right if they came to that lucid conclusion.
My name is Preeti and I live in Bangalore -- a neighbourhood called HSR Layout. I was walking around the compound of the local temple in the evening today -- mind you Bangaloreans take their religion very seriously. I was molested in that ostensibly holiest of places, by a 13/14-year old. I'm 33, old enough I think, to be his mother.
Since the cheerleaders in question belong to the Royal Challengers, I wonder if anyone wants to know what daily life is like for an ordinary woman in Bangalore? How is it remotely relevant to the discussion at hand?
It is, because ordinary women like me are within reach of all those half-crazed, ogling men that the Washington Post framed so tellingly. Those gora memsahibs, (because that's what they still are), are not. They can retire into the safety and protection of their air-conditioned Tucsons and their five-star rooms. Women like me cannot.
We have to contend with harrasment every day in Bangalore (and the rest of India). Is there empirical evidence to prove that objectification via item numbers and cheerleaders will further increase the incidence of harrasment? Probably not. Is harrasment and gender prejudice a reality of my life? Yes.
I find it ironical that foreign cheerleaders are imported to perform for the sexual edification of the male population of a country that is sytematically killing its own female babies. Maybe a shape of things to come?
Our country kills women and girl children on a scale unrivalled elsewhere, insists that most of its women live their lives according to a value system that is unjust at best, heinous at worst (a medium-roasted bride anyone?), yet feels no apparent discomfort in importing semi-naked cheereaders in a vain attempt to be... what? More American than George Bush?
I know all the men here will get that jaded "why do we care look" in their eyes. Maybe you're right, why should you care?
But, if more Indian men had the moral courage to acknowledge sexism and do just a wee bit to reduce it, perhaps ordinary women like me wouldn't need to write hate-filled rants, or waste so many of our years being victms of it.
Cheerleaders wouldn't really be a big deal if Indian women had the same rights and fredoms as Amercan women. But we don't, do we? We are Manu's daughters, after all.
Rahul @67,
I am not saying cheerleading will help or not help. I think the masses in any country should give respect to cheerleading profession in the same way as that of Indra Nooyi. I call for dignity and respect for labour and I don't want to take any moral judgement on what it can denigrate to. If you have objection to cheerleaders but don't have any objection to equivalent stuff on sitcoms, bollywoods/hollywoods which is considered ok then that is hypocrisy. I want to place all prostitutes, cheerleaders, models, film stars or any other "denigrating" profession in the same platform as Indra because in any country they would taken up that profession due to some constraints by the very same society or family which you cliam it will corrupt. If one wants one kids to not go in a particular direction then that is fine but I don't think I have any right to pass judgement on somebody's professsion influencing society. This is my current mode of thinking but I open to more discussions and revisions
Rahul S:
Why do you think Muslim countries despise the West (because they're successful and the cultural left promotes morally degrading behavior)
Dinesh D'Souza? Is that you?
preeti,
i doubt anyone will jump to your bait, but this is a 'caption this' thread. You inability to understand this basic rule and your attempt to steer this conversation into endless-circle PG territory are both hallmarks of PG herself. If you don't have a sense of humor, that's understandable, but don't shit on our parade because you don't like the tone.
Once you go to conservative cultures like India, and introduce this, it'll become like the West. Cheating on your spouse is allright, abortions are fine,
I think when it comes to abortions, India may be number 1 in the world.
71 · Nayagan said
preeti,
i doubt anyone will jump to your bait, but this is a 'caption this' thread. You inability to understand this basic rule and your attempt to steer this conversation into endless-circle PG territory are both hallmarks of PG herself. If you don't have a sense of humor, that's understandable, but don't shit on our parade because you don't like the tone.
Nayagan very true...people for some obvious reasons are getting very serious abt cheerleaders :)
Does anybody here, who watched the last Super Bowl recall anything about the Pats or Giants cheerleaders.
If the NFL get rid of the cheerleaders there would be very little outrage.
Collectively they "DING"
71 · Nayagan said
preeti,
i doubt anyone will jump to your bait, but this is a 'caption this' thread. You inability to understand this basic rule and your attempt to steer this conversation into endless-circle PG territory are both hallmarks of PG herself. If you don't have a sense of humor, that's understandable, but don't shit on our parade because you don't like the tone.
Yeah, how DARE you take this seriously! The man from the United States says you may only laugh!
[INSULT DELETED]
Preeti
Your white girl=obsenity=empowerment equation doesnt make sense. Obscenity is not empowerment.
Apparently you dont seem to have a problem with homegrown obscenity (raunchy music videos/wet rain dances LOL) but with imported ones.
White girls are not obscene. It is our south asian media that paints them as the stereotypical bikini babes. They deal their own problems in the west.
69 · Bridget Jones said
I think the masses in any country should give respect to cheerleading profession in the same way as that of Indra Nooyi.
I'm sure conservative countries are going to embrace that.
70 · pingpong said
i doubt anyone will jump to your bait, but this is a 'caption this' thread. You inability to understand this basic rule and your attempt to steer this conversation into endless-circle PG territory are both hallmarks of PG herself. If you don't have a sense of humor, that's
Nope. I just read his books. Plus, the Portuguese didn't convert my relatives, unlike his.
70 · pingpong said
hul S:
Why do you think Muslim countries despise the West (because they're successful and the cultural left promotes morally degrading behavior)
Dinesh D'Souza? Is that you?
It didn't quote right last time.
Nope. I just read his books. Plus, the Portuguese didn't convert my relatives, unlike his.
Is harrasment and gender prejudice a reality of my life? Yes.
With all due respect, this was true of India before the advent of cheerleaders. The North is much worse in the way ordinary women on the street are treated. Does that mean we should curb freedom of speech in the public arena/choice of profession for women? I think that is punishing the wrong party. I know that Vijay Mallaya is not concerned about either of those issues, but nevertheless, cheerleading is a career opportunity for some women.
What we need is unequivocal public condemnation of and judicial action against oglers, molesters, and rapists -- rather than a red herring debate between that distinguishes westernization and modernization. Of course, westernization does not equal modernization.
Also -- let's be very clear that India itself has a fine home-grown tradition of the objectification of women (before it was permissible to show a heroine as sexually expressive, the producers in various desi film industries did it through vamps; item numbers are not new -- Helen's whole career was based on their popularity). It is not wrong for women to want to be cheerleaders, if they are able to make a considered decision, but it is wrong for men to leer. And I'm assuming ordinary women are not walking in cheerleader outfits, but 'decent' clothing and yet still pretty vulnerable to sexual violence that has few or no consequences for the perpetrator.
81 · portmanteau
I would tend to think that "wanting to become a career cheerleader" and "leering" are more similar than different--both should be legal, but I would think/hope that a lot of families would want to discourage their kids from doing either. Outlawing "ogling" seems deeply problematic--see, e.g., J.S. Mill!
Topcat,
If you were to read my post seriously, and with something approaching attention, you would see the words 'item number'somewhere. Since you are obviously not inclined in that direction, I will not deign to answer you.
Enjoy your earnest attempt at reading any meaning of your choice into my post.
Nayagan,I am very honored to see that you immediately jumped to my PG-baiting. Did you check to see whether PG was hiding in your bedroom closet last night? How about under your bed? Is she trolling your dreams too? Really. You make me laugh.
74 · Suki Dillon said
Does anybody here, who watched the last Super Bowl recall anything about the Pats or Giants cheerleaders.
If the NFL get rid of the cheerleaders there would be very little outrage.
The Giants don't have cheerleaders. And I recall many things about the game including yelling 18 and 1 with a totally diverse set of men and women in the bars and streets of NY that night. And yeah, some of the women were dressed as if they could have been cheerleaders. Good times.
You obviously haven't heard about the history of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders or how cheerleaders are integral to the raising of team profits and stadium attendance. If the Cowboys got rid of their cheerleaders, who are an institution in Texas, there certainly would be an outrage. Another example: During the Riley era, the introduction of the Knicks City Dancers which have now become a staple at MSG and often the only thing worth watching at a Knicks game.
Lastly, many of the cheerleaders are college educated or cheerleading to make money (for school) or transitioning to drama or dance professions. I know this because I have been lucky enough to have met one or two in my lifetime. (Thanks to (insert deity or god that you believe in) Unfortunately, none of these fine women were able to make aloo paranthas. :(
Back to the humor:
Raju: "I bet you they'll put a picture of us on sepia mutiny"
Jeet: "Yeah and then there'll be a bunch of people who start flaming over what the implications of these women cheerleading means with respect to issues on gender and socioeconomic dynamics"
Raju: "Yup"
(Pause)
Both: "Yaar, these chicks are hot".
Jeet: "Don't forget tomm. we're taking the wives and the kids to the park....Oh and we weren't here".
82 · rob said
"leering"
sorry rob. good catch. leering i guess should be legally permissible but still carry social stigma. however, when i think of leering in the desh, i also think of uncomfortable invasion of personal space, catcalling, and a few choice remarks. the remarks and physical intimidation ought to be legally prosecutable and of course, prevented by good policing. this won't happen although, of course, it places several constraints on women and their movement 'late at night' or in 'unsafe' areas.
82 · rob said
I would tend to think that "wanting to become a career cheerleader" and "leering" are more similar than different-
in their legality, yes; but not in intent! why people want to become cheerleaders versus why they choose to leer are activities whose moral import is not equivalent. but i also think that leering is a better (and more appropriate) object for societal disapproval/ostracism.
"If we get good project managers, we can do this offshore at $25 an hour"
86 · portmanteau said
but i also think that leering is a better (and more appropriate) object for societal disapproval/ostracism.
Leering and inappropriate behavior is also a problem at least one U.S. stadium. There was a problem with leering and harassment by male fans at a particular gate during Jets game. Due to the article linked and other news articles, social pressure was applied resulting in the Jets promising to prevent the acts from occuring. I think that's the type of thing Port's referring to.
And if you are wondering, the Jets don't have cheerleaders.
76 · retorts said
Nayagan you are a putz.
I see you are also swollen with rage over the treatment of women in Bangalore temples. Why don't you write a jeremiad against whitey cheermongers as well?
in fact, i recommend jumping into every post mentioning A)uniforms, B)women, C)cricket, D)whitey and then tying it all together so the people who took this picture as platform for humor can repetitively smack themselves in the forehead while muttering, "Aiyoooo saamyyyyy! Why did I have to cursed with a sense of humor? It has debased women all round the world."
[INSULT DELETED]
My problem is with you criticizing a woman who actually lives in the country for voicing her opinion on a subject because you, neither Indian nor a woman, have deemed this thread for comedic purposes only. Quality of discussion here fell off heavily when Manish left and it's even more pronounced now that Anna doesn't even post anymore. It's less and less relevant and it's attitudes like yours that keep the downward swirl going. Stop micromanaging threads, little man.
Portmanteau in 85-86 & Jangali Janwaar in 88:
Some good points! I just didn't want to go so far as to outlaw "ogling." ;-)
90 · retorts said
My problem is with you criticizing a woman who actually lives in the country for voicing her opinion on a subject because you, neither Indian nor a woman, have deemed this thread for comedic purposes only. Quality of discussion here fell off heavily when Manish left and it's even more pronounced now that Anna doesn't even post anymore. It's less and less relevant and it's attitudes like yours that keep the downward swirl going. Stop micromanaging threads, little man.
preeti wrote as if are all somehow responsible (despite not living in India as you so cleverly indicated)--that's flat wrong. If you're feeling up to tackling the subject in a careful and considered manner (which may take you a couple of years), by all means hit up Abhi and ask for the keys to the bunker. Then you can spar with Preeti and PG and save us all the trouble.
i'm certainly not the one who wrote the post and tagged it as "humor"--if you have problems with the tag, i would talk to Amardeep. (unless you also believe that I am operating an Amardeep marionette in my spare time away from frontin' as an Indian)
if you feel the quality of discussion has fallen off, so be it. I certainly don't care for your opinion on that point. Little or big, i'm just glad i'm not you.
Wow. This is not about whether or not the films show the same amount of skin. This is about the fact that something that's already considered sexist in the United States is making its way into India. So what if the same sexualization is in films. The point is that it does not need to be transfered over to cricket and sports.
What do these cheerleaders do? In college, they at least do some formations (and some males). But for pro-football teams and the other sports "cheerleading" has crept into? They just wave their pom poms around in the skimpiest outfit possible. There are no men. Just women.
In films, yes there is sexualization and skin being showed. But we also see men being increasingly sexualized. Whether or not that's good, is not the point. But in pro-sports cheerleading, it's specifically women just there for the gratification of men.
Isn't the sport enough? Cricket is a huge sport in India. Young children will no doubt watch the game. And while one can make the argument that children can also watch films, but it's so much more worse because it's not some fantasy world. It's really taking place.
If they really want to put on a show why not some modest performances BW style that is not specifically all females. After all we always see stage performances in almost every media event. Or halftime like performances with songs and just dancers performing.
What that picture portrays is just completely sexist. If people don't get why some women are not not happy with this, well then I don't know what else to say.
And on another point. I don't think it's going to make these men any less rowdy when they get out of the stadium. If anything, it will just make them even more a headache for the women on the streets.
Portmanteau,
By the way I like your name, (think Charles Dodgson/Lewis Caroll). Mostly agree with what you say. I guess most people here would apply the First Amendment/freedom of speech lens to debates of this kind. I don't know how familiar you are with Indian law, but the legal treatment of freedom of expression here is not even remotely similar to the almost blanket protection Americans enjoy under the First Amendment.
Yes, harrasment existed in India well before the cheerleaders set their boot-clad feet here, and will do so well after they are gone. I also agree with your point about Bollywood objectfying women at least for the past 30 years. So is this to be a defense of objectification then? I think Helen jiggling assets in her sequinned outfits was considerably more benign compared to the artistic endeavours of Yana Gupta and Co. Again, that's just an opinion.
The Indecent Representation of Women Act is still very much on the law books -- and its a pretty potent tool in the hands of censorship-minded judges.
Most of these cheerleaders appear to be non-Indian, so I'm not sure how your argument about job opportunities for Indian women applies here. Anyways I think the general consensus here is that harrasment is something that Indian women just have to grin and bear.
Just wanted to throw my two cents into the ring --
1) There's no question that cheerleading is, fundamentally, sexist. Indeed, the reason I linked to this photo is to highlight what I felt was a strangeness in the scene. Thousands of men (and a few women and children), behind a cage (though admittedly, the cage is there to protect spectators from the ball). In front of them, a few scantily dressed foreign women performing. The strangeness of the scene could be comic, or it could be disturbing.
2) I do think globalization is a fact worth talking about, and this is yet another example of it. Naturally, not everything associated with the phenomenon is going to be to everyone's taste. But the cheerleaders here are only the latest in a long line of phenomena showing the coarseness of global mass culture: think of the foreign women in all the songs in Hindi films these days, for instance. Before that, the fetishization of Baywatch and "FTV". And even further back, "Hunterwali."
Nayagan,
You are hopeless. Aiyyoo samii!! Why did I hijack Nayagan's humour carnival? In all fairness, I agree this was a humor thread -- I just had the naivete to think people would actually care to read what I had to say, and sacrifice humor for a few minutes. Thank you for disabusing me of this notion.
You may continue the caption competition now. Its of earth-shaking importance and vital to the well-being of those with a gigantic sense of entitlement.
I don't know how familiar you are with Indian law, but the legal treatment of freedom of expression here is not even remotely similar to the almost blanket protection Americans enjoy under the First Amendment.
the indian constitution is thought to be the one of best written constitutions (esp the section on fundamental rights, including the very novel cultural rights that indians have; directive principles of state policy which unlike the rights are not enforceable), and the makers are known to be very eclectic in their choice of other model constitutional documents. unfortunately, the spirit of the constitution and the sanctity are absent in public life, although the supreme court is relatively well-regarded (in light of the general problems of the entire judicial system) in its interpretation of the constitution. it is probably more activist wrt american courts. since the constitution is not that permeable in daily life, expecting moral guidance for the public from that source is probably a pipe dream.
given that i'm an indian citizen (and for whatever little that counts), i'd rather that indian society take its time in figuring out how we want to deal with sexual expression in the media and public performance, rather than impose censorship from above. i think its anti-democratic to have non-elected persons filter what the public gets to see. in any case, the censor board has far too much arbitrary power in india, and its main concern seems to be cutting politically contentious stuff rather than deal with the gratuitous skin show. i do agree that american legal norms are not appropriate in the indian context. that doesn't mean i think that censorship is appropriate for india. given how good the bootleg market is in the desh, censorship will probably be unsuccessful in any case.
what would good is a high-quality debate on cheerleading. as amardeep points out, cheerleading is inherently a sexist activity. that is a good reason for wanting to remove it from indian public life (rather than that it contradicts some amorphous indian values that only some people in society endorse -- which i think it is a terrible reason, or that it will promote violence against women which doesn't seem to be supported by evidence).
oh and preeti, aren't the redskins cheerleaders there to train some indian women? at least that is what i thought, but i may be mistaken.
Amardeep,
Cage is not there to protect spectators from the ball rather it protects players from missile attacks from the spectators and also stop spectators from running in the ground.
90 · retorts said
[q]uality of discussion here fell off heavily when Manish left and it's even more pronounced now that Anna doesn't even post anymore. I
That is an ungracious things to say (even if you think it's true). I am all for your right to defend Preeti and I respect your point of view, but denigrating current bloggers is uncalled for. (I'm saying this without anger and with humility) If you feel that the quality of discussion or blogging here is below par -- just don't come to Sepia. Manish is great, and luckily, available gratis at ultrabrown.
93 · de-luker said
The point is that it does not need to be transfered over to cricket and sports.
It all started with Mandira Bedi, to give due credit to a swadeshi innovation.
91 · rob said
I just didn't want to go so far as to outlaw "ogling." ;-)
Yes, I know you're the sole source of income for the massive ogling lobby here in DC :)
It is not wrong for women to want to be cheerleaders, if they are able to make a considered decision, but it is wrong for men to leer.
If it's common knowledge that cheerleading is an objectifying role, why is it wrong for men to act in the way, the women are dressing/acting are intending to elicit in the first place. In fact, if you look at the history of 'cheerleading' all cheerleaders were originally men, and their job was to rowl up their team and take the opposing team out of their game. So the introduction of women, one could safely say was the element of sexuality given the movements and uniforms.
77 · Topcat said
Preeti
Your white girl=obsenity=empowerment equation doesnt make sense. Obscenity is not empowerment.
Apparently you dont seem to have a problem with homegrown obscenity (raunchy music videos/wet rain dances LOL) but with imported ones.
White girls are not obscene. It is our south asian media that paints them as the stereotypical bikini babes. They deal their own problems in the west.
Those gora memsahibs, (because that's what they still are), are not. They can retire into the safety and protection of their air-conditioned Tucsons and their five-star rooms. Women like me cannot.
You sound like a character from a pre-independence period movie. LOL
first thought that comes to mind:
i hope the cheerleaders wore their sunscreen and got their malaria and tetanus shots.
103 · HMF said
So the introduction of women, one could safely say was the element of sexuality given the movements and uniforms.
ok HMF, next time i wear a low-cut dress to the bar, you can say i asked for it.
SP (#47) I think 'gori chamri' is a better and more correct term than 'safed chamra' in this context.
97 · portmanteau said
94 · Preeti saidI don't know how familiar you are with Indian law, but the legal treatment of freedom of expression here is not even remotely similar to the almost blanket protection Americans enjoy under the First Amendment.
the indian constitution is thought to be the one of best written constitutions
Yup this is a humour thread .., but this has to be the best joke so far.
Seriously though, preeti is correct, with all the caveats the first amendment effectively does not exist in India.
2) Nothing in sub-clause (a) of clause (1) (this refers to freedom of speech --DD) shall affect the operation of any existing law, or prevent the State from making any law, in so far as such law imposes reasonable restrictions (wtf is reasonable --DD) on the exercise of the right conferred by the said sub-clause in the interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the State, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or morality, or in relation to contempt of court, defamation or incitement to an offence (they missed out the kitchen sink, but not much else--DD) )
(The perception of the "greatness" of Indian constitution is basically the result of the brainwashing we are put through. The US constitution is short sweet, clear and adaptable (living constitution). The Indian constitution is lenghty, full of contradictions, muddled and horribly inflexible. Excepts from the constitution read well because they are basically rip-offs of other constitutions
e.g.. it starts this way
"WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN
SOCIALIST[1] SECULAR[1] DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:
JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;
and to promote among them all
FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;
IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY
ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION." (note the horrible bureaucratized amalgamation of the US constitition's preamble and the frenchs constition's motto)
If you start read the document as a whole and you will soon start to have a whole bunch of "WTF?!" moments. If interested the constitution is available here http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/welcome.html
Rahul S and Topcat,
Leave me alone. I shan't be posting on Sepia any more. It appears to have become a forum where men like you with no desire to understand another point of view get to substitute debate with slander.
I don't wish to be harassed online -- I get enough of it in real life.
Are you only this aggressive online or is this how you always deal with contrary points-of-view -- bile-filled and venomous it may be, but its school-boyish nevertheless. I see that you have a lot of growing up to do, and I'm not being sarcastic.
There's very little point taking on someone when their reasoning is rooted in so much hate.
Some American ass for the Desi mass.
Nayagan
I see you are also swollen with rage over the treatment of women in Bangalore temples. Why don't you write a jeremiad against whitey cheermongers as well?in fact, i recommend jumping into every post mentioning A)uniforms, B)women, C)cricket, D)whitey and then tying it all together so the people who took this picture as platform for humor can repetitively smack themselves in the forehead while muttering, "Aiyoooo saamyyyyy! Why did I have to cursed with a sense of humor? It has debased women all round the world."
[INSULT DELETED].
[INSULT DELETED] I've seen PG in all her reincarnations down from the original version and that girl, I'm quite certain, is not PG - the tone is completely different. This isn't even your post anyway - and so what if it's a humor thread? Others have a right to express their opinion about this photo - and I find it a disturbing picture as well. Lord knows how often Indian women get those looks on the street as well - and unfortunately they are not behind a cage.
112 · Meena said
[INSULT DELETED].
why don't you read my next comment, hmm? maybe it's because you magically misplace literacy as soon as you're angered? "Preeti and PG" in your world must be tantamount to to "Preeti is PG." Should we start using a different font here? Would that help?
Quivering lumps of molten rage, hear me well, your emotion is better spent fighting would-be molesters with hands and feet. Who knows, maybe you could secure gov't sanction and start neutering every boy you see on the street--they are, as you say, just potential molesters, right? The problem is that dire, right? Go forth ye fearsome avengers, and snip with impunity!
Rage? As far as I can see, I've only seen ONE massive overreaction to a comment objecting to the premise of the caption contest. Guess who that was, huh? Yep. Maybe you are the one who needs to, I don't know, take a class on comphrehensive reading skills. Because as far as I can see the OP didn't implicate ALL men as potential molestors - her post seem to be merely written out of frustration with daily harassment. By the tone of your comments here, which have shocked me, honestly I don't know how you are even allowed to guest-blog here. It certainly doesn't allow for a good atmosphere for friendly discourse.
114 · Meena said
I don't know how you are even allowed to guest-blog here.
Whether it's the Saffron Brigade or the Moral Majority, my words anger far more prudes than just you--join the crowd and keep coming back to e-froth your frustration with such a hostile environment. Friendly discourse is the product of loyalty pledges and planted questioners in sham townhalls--not anything meaningful or productive. But that's beside the point--a caption, humorous or not, is at most a few lines of wit--not a paragraph. In pretty much every other caption post, people have understood the premise and commented (to our mutual enjoyment) brilliantly.
Perhaps next time we should use a picture of a nice fuzzy bunny riding a candy-coated choo-choo train to Post-Conflictville.
ok HMF, next time i wear a low-cut dress to the bar, you can say i asked for it.
Is this a position you've always held or are you backtracking here as well?
109 · DizzyDesi said
(wtf is reasonable --DD)
that is not an unusual restriction on freedom of speech, DD. you're quoting the preamble which not strictly a part of the constitution -- it is not enforceable and is just an introduction to what follows. i don't how 'reasonable' is interpreted by indian courts -- but the the place to see the relevant definition is part 3, the fundamental rights section (all is available in wikipedia). in any case, how well-written the constitution is an opinion -- i just happen to share it with some people. i regret that in india the constitution does not enjoy a stronger connection with the public -- although it contains some pretty progressive legislation. not all of it is great -- but i won't trash it just because it is indian or i have been 'brainwashed' into thinking is virtuous, as you seem to assume.
and here is another example of restraints on speech (specifically in the US constitution).
PS: wtf moments are all well -- constitutions are historically grounded, and reflect the prejudices of their makers as well as all the compromises made when they were written. so yes, sure things will seem anachronistic 50-60 years on, but that doesn't mean i'm willing to condemn the entire document. btw, this guy, charles beard, had some wtf moments of his own with the US constitution. his research is very well-regarded and very interesting -- one of the best examples of early modern economic history.
Folks, first and foremost, PLEASE DO NOT INSULT ONE ANOTHER.
If you find yourself tempted to write "You are a ..." on a comment, just don't. (That goes for EVERYONE.)
Secondly, I did want to indicate that I thought Preeti's initial comment was a reasonable reaction to this. It's fair to raise the issue of sexism among Indian men in a post on cheerleaders, even a humorous one. The only caveat is that the person doing it should be speaking in good faith -- it's irritating when people pretend to be someone they're not to make comments along those lines. In this case, Preeti's IP address at least confirms that she's been posting from Bangalore.
Admittedly, I didn't expect the thread to get so serious, but at some point we have to accept that the joke is dead. The last thing we want to do is snarl at the person who complained, and say, "why aren't you laughing?"
I only started to look more positively on cheerleading when I started seeing male cheerleadears. In San Francisco, they even do splits ;)
Preeti,
Life in India is deeply frustrating for a woman. I left India a long long time ago because I did not want to deal with Indian men and also to some extent Indian women so I hear you. Anyway, the men and their mail/male order brides followed, had kids, some of whom post on SM. Like father, like son.
"Some TV pundits pointed out that the Redskins cheerleaders are showing more skin on the cricket pitch than most Indian men will see before marriage."
From the article at WashingtonPost
I shan't be posting on Sepia any more. It appears to have become a forum where men like you with no desire to understand another point of view get to substitute debate with slander.
Um. I was trying to defend you. I believe Nayagan was giving you more crap than I was, yet you say I'm harassing you?
87 · LikeThatOnly
um.. were you at iit?
It's fair to raise the issue of sexism among Indian men in a post on cheerleaders,
Yes. you're definitely correct here, it does ring a bit counter-intuitive when an event like this is regarded as
"moving forward" Secondly, I'd invite everyone to actually consider what makes this a humorous post in the first place. They say that every joke has a modicum of truth behind it, so what's the truth here? That Indian men are sexually depraved, socially stilted beings that only need women with big pom-poms, and those confetti-type things they hold in their hands dancing in front of them, to bring them into the new era.
dizzidesi, apologies -- i misinterpreted your comment. i edited my response to reflect my second reading (the links are available on #117):
those are not unusual restrictions on freedom of speech, DD. in any case, how well-written the constitution is an opinion -- i just happen to share it with some people. i regret that in india the constitution does not enjoy a stronger connection with the public -- although it contains some pretty progressive legislation. not all of it is great -- but i won't trash it just because it is indian or i have been 'brainwashed' into thinking is virtuous, as you seem to assume. and here is another example of restraints on speech (specifically in the US constitution). PS: wtf moments are all well -- constitutions are historically grounded, and reflect the prejudices of their makers as well as all the compromises made when they were written. so yes, sure things will seem anachronistic 50-60 years on, but that doesn't mean i'm willing to condemn the entire document. btw, this guy, charles beard, had some wtf moments of his own with the US constitution. his research is very well-regarded and very interesting -- one of the best examples of early modern economic history.
That women too may express their sexuality without inviting any violence is accepted and protected by the law only in a few countries and that too until recently. As in the Jodie Foster movie "The Accused" a woman is absolutely free to sport lusty license plates on her car, wear anything she wants, and no mai-ka-laal has any @#$&*$$%^ business throwing himself upon her against her will. As far as I know that right is absolute in the US. Titillation (aka *** tease) is no excuse for sex crime. Does the law even understand this in India, do the dunderheads and morons in charge of India's law enforcement across the land ever intend to enforce such a law without compromise? The extra-ordinary lengths to which governments across the political spectrum - have gone to stamp any sort of gathering of consenting adults - boys and girls - men and women - is deeply shameful in contrast to the pathetic record of prosecution of crimes against women from conception to adulthood. You don't expect an Majlis party in Hyderabad or a Shiv Sena to utter progressive thoughts - they are caught in a time warp right? What about "rationalist" parties in Tamil Nadu who hounded Kushboo for her opinions or Shreya for her dress? The Commissioner of Police of Chennai (an A-grade chamcha of the ruling party) has been busy winding up night-clubs (night in name only as they have to shut down at 11 pm) and demanding that parents hosting parties for their teens and their friends obtain a permit from his office.
a woman is absolutely free to sport lusty license plates on her car, wear anything she wants, and no mai-ka-laal has any @#$&*$$%^ business throwing himself upon her against her will. As far as I know that right is absolute in the US. Titillation (aka *** tease) is no excuse for sex crime
I'm not understanding your point here, are you saying in India, a woman's dress has been used in a court of law against her in cases of overt physical & sexual violence?
Those women do not know how lucky they are to be behind that fence.
I hate to imagine what would happen if the fence was not in place. I don't have to, New Year's Eve in Mumbai for a few NRI women already answered that question for me.
I really doubt if these were duly informed how deep the rabbit hole goes in India if they would have willingly gone and participated in this.
On the otherhand, Indian cheerleaders, who grew up in the rabbit hole, do indeed know how deep it goes and yet they are forming a cheering team to do the very same thing. I assume however that their outfits will not be as skimpy (any photos?).
I am all for a sexual revolution in India, but one that will place women on top (pun intended). This type of female only cheerleading squad is sending out the wrong message. In fact, it's sending out the same old message that has been sent out to women in India for the last so many centuries.
This will change nothing. And like Preeti says, for the common woman on the street, it could be dangerous.
That photo is wrong on so many levels.
And Moor Nam makes an excellent point; they are the only women in the stadium!!!! Well, at least in that photo.
Come now, where are all these guys's moms, sisters, aunties, daughters, girlfriends, wives and well, just plain old female friends???
Surely Indian women are cricket fans too?
Again, this is wrong on so many levels.
That photo is wrong on so many levels.
What would have been an interesting experiment would've been to just post the picture and ask people to name what/where/why it is (of course removing any obvious demarcators that it's a cricket game)
I am all for a sexual revolution in India, but one that will place women on top
Examples?
If Indian men are so crass and sexually repressed, why don't the Indian women ease their repression. Oh noes, cultural values to be held by them. They want to marry what their dear mommy and daddy ask them to. And I am sure Men are the one who want that, wait that is not what Preeti is talking about. It is not possible to be an Indian man, and have all the girls available to them for fun and not available for fun at the same time.
The point is Indian men are just like any other men in the world. In fact it is the Indian women who has the double standard as much as the Indian men.
I apologize to any grammar nazi regarding my post above. I should type slower.
And Moor Nam makes an excellent point; they are the only women in the stadium!!!! Well, at least in that photo.
Look carefully, click at the photo, there are women in the picture. Hint: Two in the middle with a green sari, and another one with purple sari.
Also, in India, and Pakistan, there are women only stands in the stadium, in addition to open stands.
Two heads above the brunette cheer leader on the right: there are three women sitting in the stadium.
If you look carefully, you will see quite a few of them.
In 30 seconds, I can spot 15 women in the picture in the stadium.
Another sightings, two about the redskins banner above the African American cheerleader.
127 · Very Scary said
Come now, where are all these guys's moms, sisters, aunties, daughters, girlfriends, wives and well, just plain old female friends???
Oh really, would a normal Indian girl go out with a guy if he asked her out. I can tell you with experience you may have to ask approximately around 100 girls to find one who would do that. I am just talking about girlfriends. Mothers,sisters,wives would probably say cricket is boring, let alone go to a stadium. Is it solely because of the guy here. I don't think so. And is there really any such thing as plain old female friends.
You point here leads me to believe you are a girl who actually does not know how deep the rabbit hole goes in India. As a matter of fact I appreciate the Indian cheerleaders who are being open minded about this.
I really doubt if these were duly informed how deep the rabbit hole goes in India if they would have willingly gone and participated in this.
Yes, Alice, the Wonderland of India is quite fascinating. It's like they do everything backwards there, like going through a looking glass, if you will.
Discussing pain and sexual RPM is fine, but could we stop the exotification metaphors please?
Sil,
Please look at the picture carefully, there are women all over.
In addition, to examples above.
On the right, there is guy with pink shirt, there are three women sitting next to him (to left of him).
I stand corrected: In less than 5 seconds, I can spot 15 women in the picture in the stadium.
Cricket stadiums in India and Pakistan are full of women, sure, some of them are women only stands.
Also, in India, and Pakistan, there are women only stands in the stadium, in addition to open stands.
That is a loaded sentence. Why the need for gender segregated stands?
Very Scary,
Do you really want to learn or you are just asking questions for the sake of it? The rationale is similar to women only buses, cars in Bombay locals etc. Cricket in India is not a male spectator sport as some may have you believe. Kush rightly points out to the facts and I used to regularly watch matches at Firozshah Kotla and Wankhede and although the ratio is not 50:50 but there are many women who come to watch matches.
And on top of everything, this is exotification of the pardesi gori (foreign female), with a few pardesi kalis mixed in as well.
Exotification = objectification = oppression!
Wrong on so many levels.
Now a mixed cheerleading team of both male and female desis in skimpy clothes (or not skimpy), would be so much righter.
Over the ages, India has always taken what fits its cultural ethos and has discarded what doesn't.
Example: The lifecycle of the Public Sector Units (PSUs). Not even the most rabid socialist JNU jhola-wala will deny that India has always been a very entrepreneurial and innovative society. Less than 60 years after PSUs were set up (a mere moment in the history of a country, especially one that is as ancient as India), the government has started either privatizing them or dismantling them.
The lesson? You can try and impose what you want on India; it will eventually take its own path.
It is true that Indian society is generally sexually deprived in this age. But it was not always so (Kama Sutra anyone?). Such is the cycle of history. Combined with images like these, satellite TV, and Hollywood, it is understandable that people think this is a ticking demographic time-bomb. However, it is a bit naive to believe that the current trend of forcing overt symbols of Westernization in a traditional society like India will have a lasting impact.
Preeti, I sympathize with you. Indian metropolises are not the safest places for women, but I do believe that the situation will eventually change for the better.
Why the need for gender segregated stands?
Very Scary,
I did not make the rules for women in cricket stadiums in India and Pakistan, I am just telling you the facts.
In Pakistan, it is cultural and religious.
In India, some of it is safety, and logistics, and many other factors - yes, to control streetside harassment (eve-teasing). This is in addition to open stands. Even trains, and buses have them.
I will repeat again, I did not make the segregated stands, just telling you what it is. I wish you would have clicked the picture above, before pontificating.
how deep the rabbit hole goes in India
Not only that, isn't it an erroneous metaphor to begin with? Doesn't the rabbit hole correspond to Alice's method of entering Wonderland, the place of surreality, where dreams and strange things are reality?
I understand very well why the need for gender segregation in the stands and on the busses in India. Just making a point.
Anyway, as a feminist I have serious issues with the whole cheerleading thing in general. And with this type of exotification in particular.
I'd like to know why they are not training desi males to pounce their pachas around for the sexual edification of the women in the stands.
Now if only most of the Indian girls were like this
...sigh
Oh don't bother Very Scary sounds dangerously like PG and if that is correct I just wasted few minutes typing the earlier comment.
I'd like to know why they are not training desi males to pounce their pachas around for the sexual edification of the women in the stands.
No, instead they create a society that trains desi males to work meaningless, boring jobs to make money, because god knows that's the only way to get a women in the stand (or out of the stand) interested. Sure it's not the same kind of objectification, but isn't it just as bad?
You are all for rundees!
Yes, we are all for them. However, we really dislike jerks [Sorry on speaking on everyone's behalf, but I think this is a relatively uncontroversial claim :)]
Maybe you're being funny -- but that language isn't helping your cause.
Oh really, would a normal Indian girl go out with a guy if he asked her out. I can tell you with experience you may have to ask approximately around 100 girls to find one who would do that. I am just talking about girlfriends.... And is there really any such thing as plain old female friends.
I can speak to my experience in urban India which is where I grew up. You will find all of the above -- the extent to which women are willing to go out certainly varies by city, and many choose to have relationships which they conceal from family. It's true that men and women both bear the consequences of gender segregation in India -- but the situation in urban India is pretty complex. There are families which do not allow mingling with people of the opposite sex; still other families allow friendships, especially within mixed groups in context of school and college; relatively few (probably upper-middle class and higher SES) parents allow their children to have open romantic relationships. I do think, however, that relationships where the couple is more committed and definitely headed toward marriage are now much more acceptable to more 'traditional' parents. For families of girls, there is a big risk in allowing them to see males in the open. If the relationship doesn't end in a wedding, the girls then face a disadvantage in the arranged marriage scene. Remember, it is a man's family and the man himself that are demanding 'untainted' goods. This applies to men as well. Those who have 'bad' reputations which follow them, also don't do well on the arranged marriage market. But this stigma is less damaging to men. In any case, the whole system is stacked against dating in the open. But women are not entirely to blame when they don't want to be seen at a stadium with a guy.
125 · jyotsana said
Does the law even understand this in India, do the dunderheads and morons in charge of India's law enforcement across the land ever intend to enforce such a law without compromise? The extra-ordinary lengths to which governments across the political spectrum - have gone to stamp any sort of gathering of consenting adults - boys and girls - men and women - is deeply shameful in contrast to the pathetic record of prosecution of crimes against women from conception to adulthood.
hear, hear!
rundees
If I may ask, what does this mean?
rundeesIf I may ask, what does this mean?
it means whore. But its more insulting if its possible.
HMF,
Randi would be a prostitute.
148 · portmanteau said
For families of girls, there is a big risk in allowing them to see males in the open. If the relationship doesn't end in a wedding, the girls then face a disadvantage in the arranged marriage scene. Remember, it is a man's family and the man himself that are demanding 'untainted' goods. This applies to men as well. Those who have 'bad' reputations which follow them, also don't do well on the arranged marriage market. But this stigma is less damaging to men. In any case, the whole system is stacked against dating in the open. But women are not entirely to blame when they don't want to be seen at a stadium with a guy.
I never said women are entirely to blame. As a matter o fact I clearly said
135 · Sil said
Is it solely because of the guy here. I don't think so.
I do know in cities this is not a problem that much nowadays(I am from India, so its not like I don't understand this). Even in rural areas you will find many. But my point is why do you feed the guys who want "untainted girls" with girls. Why is that girl feeding herself onto these cases when clearly you have a lot more guys(options) who are open. I don't understand this. Again, surely it is not the sole problem of a man or a woman. Both share equal responsibility if as someone above claims they are a feminist.
Rundi actually originally meant "widow".
There is a history to how this word metamorphisized into meaning "whore".
Sad.
OK Guys and Girls, time for the Chacha's Choice Awards for the Captions.
For Audacious Bilingualism with Redeeming Educational Value, Rahul for "Give me a K! Give me an L! Give me a P! Give me a D!"
For Most Interesting Freudian Slip in a Long Time: Rahul S for "It must be the closet thing to Playboy for these guys."
For Most LOL Value: dipanjan for "(pre-game) Dinesh to Raj: We are going to meet all the bitches tonight." For Quickest Follow-Up: RC for "And Raj to Dinesh: I am Santa Clause". RC also wins Most Interesting Typo in a Long Time.
For Most Interesting Puns: pingpong, for "Generally, showing more skin influences one's frequency of rooting too. Too many puns. My "head" hertz." and "Cheering Ladies versus Leering Chaddies".
For Most Bogus Pseudo-Intellectual Claptrap: chachaji
But the Absolute Top of the Crop Bang-On Comment for Seeing What's Really Going On:
38 · Jangali Jaanwar said
"Washington sends highly persuasive representatives to build consensus for nuclear deal."
126 · HMF said
n India, a woman's dress has been used in a court of law against her in cases of overt physical & sexual violence?
yes. it is accepted as a common-sense by much of the public, and i actually heard the police commissioner of delhi at a press conference saying that indian women who dress in a particular way are basically inviting sexual violence (about 6-7 years ago).
yes. it is accepted as a common-sense by much of the public,
While that's bad, it's not tantamount to a defense lawyer stating to a judge, "Her clothing was revealing, hence my client is not guilty of the crime."
who dress in a particular way are basically inviting sexual violence
Well, this can be looked at in two ways. Is a guy walking down the street waving his money all over the place inviting unnecessary attention? Yes. Does that justify robbery, assault? No.
Before the kneejerk reactions take place. Read over what I said.
138 · Very Scary said
Also, in India, and Pakistan, there are women only stands in the stadium, in addition to open stands.
That is a loaded sentence. Why the need for gender segregated stands?
Separate, but equal.
126 · HMF said
a woman is absolutely free to sport lusty license plates on her car, wear anything she wants, and no mai-ka-laal has any @#$&*$$%^ business throwing himself upon her against her will. As far as I know that right is absolute in the US. Titillation (aka *** tease) is no excuse for sex crime
I'm not understanding your point here, are you saying in India, a woman's dress has been used in a court of law against her in cases of overt physical & sexual violence?
Yes. It has been used extensively, if not judges are known to have heeded the victim's complaint on the grounds that the victim is a woman of "character". In other words, The Accused's Sarah Tobias, the Sexy Sadie license-plate-wali would be entitled to no justice in India because of her conduct. As it is that movie is all too recent - barely 20 years old. But in the US where almost every crime is pursued vigorously by default, the choice is between pursuing it at least to investigation. In India if at all such a crime is prosecuted there are many ways to blame the victim, even now.
157 · HMF said
While that's bad, it's not tantamount to a defense lawyer stating to a judge, "Her clothing was revealing, hence my client is not guilty of the crime."
I suspect the defense is that 'she was asking for it. No woman of good character would wear clothes like that. Her testimony is not believable.' The defense is that the alleged victim's character is suspect, so her testimony is not credible. Also HMF, many times the police will not lodge FIRs for women because in their judgment what happened did not constitute rape (So the police commissioner being flippant in that way is not trivial and reflects the attitude of the Dilli Police, at the very least). As it is few women report rape, still others abandon the judicial process because of police ridicule and insensitivity.
The defense is that the alleged victim's character is suspect, so her testimony is not credible.
but doesn't that speak to a larger issue of her just being a woman, and not necessarily connected to her style of dress?
many times the police will not lodge FIRs
they won't lodge finite impulse response's? whats an FIR.
161 · HMF said
but doesn't that speak to a larger issue of her just being a woman, and not necessarily connected to her style of dress?
i'm being descriptive -- it's not a claim i'm making. and no, she's suspect not because she's a woman, but because she chooses to dress that way.
whats an FIR.Google it, dude. The prime advantage of Google is that it helps mask one's ignorance without much effort at all. First Information Report -- the first official complaint you lodge with the police.
The prime advantage of Google is that it helps mask one's ignorance without much effort at all
I'm not trying to mask anything. If I don't know I ask. If I do know, I say it.
no, she's suspect not because she's a woman, but because she chooses to dress that way.
Still doesn't imply that it's a sound legal argument that's recognized by the judge. The other information you mentioned about police being insensitive is not good, but I'd imagine it occurs outside of India as well. In fact I remember an after school special on it.
155 · chachaji said
But the Absolute Top of the Crop Bang-On Comment for Seeing What's Really Going On
Thank you chachaji! It's truly an honor. :)
My acceptance speech: None of this would have been possible without sexism, the Dallas Cowboys, repeated viewings of Charlie Wilson's war, and years of jaded cynicism. I'd also like to thank the numerous sepia mutineers who have improved not only my sense of humor but enhanced my understanding of differing points of view through their civil posts (even those that I disagree with): Rahul, Port, PingPong, Camille, Amitabh, Nala, Bess, Harbeer, Chachaji, Floridian, Razib, Manju, HMF, rob, the Al's, the lurkers, de-lurkers, and so many others. Of course, without SM, there would be no place to try out material, so many thanks to all of the bloggers and guest bloggers, their hard work and wonderful writing.
I'd also like to give a shout-out to the people of the Bronx, Queens, Edison, Chicago, Sacramento, San Francisco, Van-city, Miami, Brazil, San Juan, Santo Domingo, London, Mumbai, Bangalore, Chandigarh, Panchkula, Amritsar, Punjab (pre and post partition), Haryana (post partition), Himachal Pradesh (also post), UP, Kerala, Afghanistan, Tibet, Bhutan, Nepal, Hong Kong, Singapore, the troops overseas, the Great Khali and Tiny who's doing 5 to 10 in Sing Sing, this award is for you. One Love.
Most of all I'd like to thank (insert deity, god or prophet of your choice). A copy of Chachaji's post will be going on the mantle. ;) Scythians represent!
Still doesn't imply that it's a sound legal argument that's recognized by the judge
The point I'm making is the original poster made it seem like it's statute in the law books, which is not the case. I won't argue that women have a hard time proving a case they were raped. But then again you do have the converse, where a simple allegation (even if not true) could stick with a guy and ruin his reputation, credibility and even life for that matter. I'm sure, even in India when a male is accused of rape, the judges and lawyers and police officers don't run over and hi-five him.
As for this "a woman should be able to express her sexuality" nonsense, I say just call it for what it is. Whether people admit it or not, the purpose of dressing that way is to turn heads, it's to elicit a response, particularly in men. That fundamental truth has to be acknowledged, of course it doesn't justify violence or anything like that, however one can't
37 · Jangali Jaanwar said
Son turning to Father: "This is why I must go to America. I will make you proud and marry a cheerleader who can make aloo paranthas."
LMAO!!
However, one can't deny the rationale for that behavior in the first place.
g to Father: "This is why I must go to America. I will make you proud and marry a cheerleader who can make aloo paranthas."
I'd like to have a cheerleader make some chana baturas & samosas for me.
Jangali Jaanwar (#164): Thanks for the shout-out...but couldn't you have made the whole thing rhyme? Seeing Nala's name reminded me of that whole episode.
havent the ethics brigade try interrupting these games :) above all, these games are turning interesting ones
Scarface,
Vijay Mallya the owner of the Bangalore team has a reputation for over the top showmanship and holds considerable clout in Bangalore, if I am not mistaken he is also a Rajya Sabha MP. Few years back when he had launched his airline he made similar news and every year he launches a calendar with similar fanfare.
30 · Victor Kilo said
Globalization works both ways. Outsourcing cheerleading operations to the US is such a big hit in India!
thats a good one dude
umber
yeah, the way he flaunts his riches made him popular these days. but isnt it ridiculous that he names his team "Royal challengers" to get blatant advt. for his BRAND. and deccan chargers is abbreviated as DC to popularise their BRAND!
"Wow, white women!"
I think no one's saying it, but what might be making some of us uncomfortable is the stark difference between what they (as represented by those cheerleaders) look like and what we (as represented by that crowd) look like (in terms of health, physique, and yes, complexion). I'll admit that crossed my mind when I first saw the picture. There are probably few men in that crowd who could beat one of those women at an arm-wrestle. Of course cheerleaders are not a sample of what the average American woman is like, but standing against the backdrop of the average American crowd they wouldn't look so out of place either. Here in this picture, the visible, physical differences are, like I said, very stark. Sorry if this rubs some people the wrong way.
Amitabh: I hate to pick on you, especially after a refreshingly honest comment, but you do realize that a good % of Americans look like this.
terms of health, physique, and yes, complexion
if physique were the issue, a bunch of indians standing around watching salman khan or dhoni would be inherently hilarious. this scene is notable for the transplantation of a traditional (and still jarring to me) american sporting practice to an indian milieu.
but you do realize that a good % of Americans look like this.
naah, man. far easier to keep persisting with these stereotypes.
I found this video on the Washington Post website. They're talking to people going into the stands, and there's one really gung-ho guy, cheering the idea of cheerleaders. I wouldn't say it's necessarily representative of the population at large, but even the 60-somethings of both sexes being interviewed seem pretty ok with the whole idea. Then again, the video might well be part of the promotion. With corporate media all round you can never be fully sure.
I also found this photo gallery, and this video on the ABC site.
What bothered me most in all this was why it had to be American cheerleaders (even if some might have been African-American or Asian-American - wasn't all 'gori chamdi', but even what wasn't 'gori' was still gori by Indian standards):(i) Cheerleading does not have to be done exactly the same way everywhere. (ii) There already are Indian pom-pom squads. Courtesy Filmiholic, and these were probably Bollywood dance girls trained on a different routine. Still.
And:
The Redskins cheer choreographer, Donald Wells, said the Indian cheerleaders he's working with are already adept at shaking their hips and staying on the beat. He noticed that Indian cheerleaders were very expressive with their hands -- Indian classical dance has countless hand motions -- and joked that they probably wouldn't need pompoms. "The Indian girls who tried out so far were so beautiful and so good, they were practically better than us," said Sharica Brown, 27, a Redskins cheerleader from Baltimore, as she snacked on a plate of nachos before the game at Bangalore's Hard Rock Cafe
Cheerleading, just like call-centers, is likely to attract a 'higher quality candidate' in India. Just as call center jobs attracted college graduates, so also cheerleading might attract, say, second-string actresses, or even the occassional first-string Bollywood actress. For a video intended to promote the cheerleaders in IPL, Katrina Kaif is said to have beaten out Bangalore girl Deepika Padukone for a spot - these are both A-list Bollywood. So it is a matter of time, I think - eventually the market will develop, and Indian girls will look at cheerleading as a serious career option, and one fine day, someone will 'insource' an Indian girl to cheerlead 'Stateside' - the Sharica Browns of five or ten years out might well have serious Indian competition.
"The Indian girls who tried out so far were so beautiful and so good, they were practically better than us," said Sharica Brown, 27, a Redskins cheerleader from Baltimore
So it is a matter of time, I think - eventually the market will develop, and Indian girls will look at cheerleading as a serious career option, and one fine day, someone will 'insource' an Indian girl to cheerlead 'Stateside'
the cheerleading exchange between the redskins and the royal challengers could be likened to joint indo-american navy exercises in the indian ocean. indeed, your thoughtful and detailed analysis of the strategic trajectory of the future of indian cheerleading makes you sound like a seasoned rear admirer, er, admiral.
31 · de-lurker said
I don't understand why the protests are just being brushed off.
de-lurker, I was just riffing on the Obama quote that's been all the rage this past week. That said, I agree with you that cheerleading is problematic, but I am certainly not in support of protests to it framed in the language of "preserving traditional Indian culture and values".
155 · chachaji said
For Audacious Bilingualism with Redeeming Educational Value, Rahul for "Give me a K! Give me an L! Give me a P! Give me a D!"
I have been called a cunning linguist before, but coming from you, chachaji, it's a real honor. In order to keep the myth about my adeptness with tongues going, here's another:
"So, Sharica, that song in the background? It, like, you know, really, speaks to me, babe! That's what I tell Damon after every Friday night game - 'Eef you come today, it's too yerly!'"
178 · chachaji said
So it is a matter of time, I think - eventually the market will develop, and Indian girls will look at cheerleading as a serious career option
I know there's a few Indian-Americans (desi type not Native American) on cheerleading squads. Here's one.
Following up on chachaji's comments, there are already Bollywood stars who are performing at cricket matches. I know that at certain ICL matches there are performances by Bollywood stars and dancers.
So it is a matter of time, I think - eventually the market will develop, and Indian girls will look at cheerleading as a serious career option
For all of the Desh's problems/obstacles to be overcome, finally good proof (as if it were needed) that (cultural) evolution is not (non-decreasingly) monotonic!
181 · Jangali Jaanwar said
178 · chachaji said
So it is a matter of time, I think - eventually the market will develop, and Indian girls will look at cheerleading as a serious career option
I know there's a few Indian-Americans (desi type not Native American) on cheerleading squads. Here's one.
Gina must be her stage name.
Following up on chachaji's comments, there are already Bollywood stars who are performing at cricket matches. I know that at certain ICL matches there are performances by Bollywood stars and dancers.
Btw this was funny in the Washington post article which Amardeep linked to in his post -
"....An old language scholar I spoke to declared himself unsure of what a Hindi neologism for “cheerleader” might be. He offered “utsaah-pradarshak naari” — “a woman who displays enthusiasm” — as a candidate. ..."
180 · Rahul said
I have been called a cunning linguist before
Why, how convenient! I'm looking for a tutor in the Romance languages. And you know, Professor, I'll do absolutely anything for an A.
184 · Bridget Jones said
Btw this was funny in the Washington post article which Amardeep linked to in his post -
"....An old language scholar I spoke to declared himself unsure of
what a Hindi neologism for “cheerleader” might be. He offered
“utsaah-pradarshak naari” — “a woman who displays enthusiasm” — as a
candidate. ..."
Oops it was actually the NYTimes article - India's Game, US Spice from the news tab
185 · portmanteau said
180 · Rahul said
I have been called a cunning linguist before
Why, how convenient! I'm looking for a tutor in the Romance languages. And you know, Professor, I'll do absolutely anything for an A.
Even sleep with him?
185 · portmanteau said
Why, how convenient! I'm looking for a tutor in the Romance languages.
i'd think you're already fluent in the french tongue.
185 · portmanteau said
Why, how convenient! I'm looking for a tutor in the Romance languages. And you know, Professor, I'll do absolutely anything for an A.
Don't worry, port. With my full T&A attention, I'll make sure you come on top.
129 · Sil said
If Indian men are so crass and sexually repressed, why don't the Indian women ease their repression. Oh noes, cultural values to be held by them. They want to marry what their dear mommy and daddy ask them to. And I am sure Men are the one who want that, wait that is not what Preeti is talking about. It is not possible to be an Indian man, and have all the girls available to them for fun and not available for fun at the same time.
The point is Indian men are just like any other men in the world. In fact it is the Indian women who has the double standard as much as the Indian men.
Best post in this discussion IMHO
I have been called a cunning linguist before
Rahul and portmanteau, please STFU and get a room already.
I for one am sick and tired of all your sleazy double entendres.
160 · portmanteau said
I suspect the defense is that 'she was asking for it. No woman of good character would wear clothes like that. Her testimony is not believable.' The defense is that the alleged victim's character is suspect, so her testimony is not credible. Also HMF, many times the police will not lodge FIRs for women because in their judgment what happened did not constitute rape (So the police commissioner being flippant in that way is not trivial and reflects the attitude of the Dilli Police, at the very least). As it is few women report rape, still others abandon the judicial process because of police ridicule and insensitivity.
The defence is not "she was asking for it", with DNA technology you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the victim and the accused had sex, what is left to be dealt with is, "was there consent". This is where most defence lawyers focus on. If you read "Gils like you" by Paul Sheehan which deals with the gang-rapes of 2 Australian Women by 4 Pakistani and 1 Nepali guy, the defence theory was it was consensual sex.
The book goes on to describe the tactics of the lawyers including calling the victims unreliable, confused, their sexual history was used, at a point the lawyer asked why one of the victim was, wait for it (exact words), "moaning in pleasure". The defence used a war of attrition to wear down the girls 4 years after the fact, finally you had convictions for most, one was acquitted. The victim said the trial and the lawyers were worst than her gang rape.
@ jyotsana
If you get your rosy ideas about the civility of non Indian judicial systems from Law & Order or CSI can't help you there. In an adversarial system (used in India, USA, UK, AUS,NZ) the truth is not important, its the evidence that matters.
192Rahul and portmanteau, please STFU and get a room already.
I for one am sick and tired of all your sleazy double entendres.
They are two of my favorite comment-makers, so--STFU yourself--not that I know what that acronym means (help, please?!)! ;-)
What is, for example, a "double entendres"? I only know English and some limited Hindi and Tamil, so I am at an unfair advantage here. Please stop oppressing me with your Francophile wiles. ;-)
192 · too_much_filth said
Rahul and portmanteau, please STFU and get a room already.
I for one am sick and tired of all your sleazy double entendres.
Oh my god! You used the F-word! It seems you prefer the single entendre yourself. Is the double entendre against your cultural values and tradition?
194 · rob said
They are two of my favorite comment-makers
Thanks, rob. It's very kind of you to think that, and even nicer of you to say it!
That's a rip from Tommorow Never Dies.
Oh, everybody knows the pun. At least Mrs. Doubtfire, and probably well before that.
Rob, cheering these sleazebags on lowers the quality of discussion in this place.
Rahul, do you have a life away from sepiamutiny? Just asking.
Rahul & Portmaneau,
Neenghal enai sirrhikka waykkringhal.
(You make me laugh)!
Rob, cheering these sleazebags on lowers the quality of discussion in this place.
Travis Bickle, worry not. Someday a real rain will come and wash the scum off the streets.
Rahul, do you have a life away from sepiamutiny? Just asking.
Why, do you want to start something together?
What do these cheerleaders do? In college, they at least do some formations (and some males). But for pro-football teams and the other sports "cheerleading" has crept into? They just wave their pom poms around in the skimpiest outfit possible.
Apparently, cheerleading accounts for half the head and spine injuries that girl athletes suffer!
Oh my god! You used the F-word! It seems you prefer the single entendre yourself. Is the double entendre against your cultural values and tradition?LMAO!
I have to add finally that the poster 'Very Scary', on the other hand, *does* sound like PG. That's all from me...
Rob, cheering these sleazebags on lowers the quality of discussion in this place.
They are so cute together, hai na? Arrey sunti ho, ab in dono ki shaadi kar dalo, nahin to ye sex-wex karne lagenge un Amreekion ki tarah.
Samir
@ jyotsana
If you get your rosy ideas about the civility of non Indian judicial systems from Law & Order or CSI can't help you there. In an adversarial system (used in India, USA, UK, AUS,NZ) the truth is not important, its the evidence that matters.
No it depends upon what sort of non-evidentiary claims are allowed to pass. Trial is many parts evidence and a few parts theatre. Indian judges have delivered some bizarre judgements such as one where the convicted defendant was offered a reduced sentence if he married his victim! The big screen and small screen throw up all sorts of rosy as well as non-rosy scenarios, as in "A time to kill" where the expert witness testifying for the defence is thrown out of court for having raped a minor; disregarding the fact that he subsequently married her and continues to take care of her through a terminal illness.
Not too long ago the Mathur rape case was there.
Logic used in defense during trial: the girl had a boyfriend so she must've been used to it.
Anyway, different things are problematic in different countries due to different cultures.
Unless you live for long periods of time in a place, it's difficult to understand alot of things.
204 · Floridian said
They are so cute together, hai na? Arrey sunti ho, ab in dono ki shaadi kar dalo, nahin to ye sex-wex karne lagenge un Amreekion ki tarah.
Best Post on this thread!
193 · Samir said
The defence is not "she was asking for it", with DNA technology you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the victim and the accused had sex, what is left to be dealt with is, "was there consent". This is where most defence lawyers focus on.
Samir, DNA testing for criminal justice is in its infancy in India, and the parliament has only now drafted a DNA Profiling Act, which will could be approved this year. There are only a few government crime labs in India (the most notable one is in Hyderabad) and they have long processing times. I culled this excerpt from this article on law enforcement and DNA evidence:
The Indian experience has been mixed. In a few sensational cases, the police, especially the Central Bureau of Investigation, have no doubt resorted to DNA evidence and have also succeeded. The problem is one of expanding laboratory facilities and training forensic personnel in the collection and forwarding of samples without damage to assigned laboratories.
The Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB), Hyderabad, is the principal laboratory that has built a credible record for accuracy and professionalism. The Central Forensic Laboratory (CFL) in Delhi and a few State laboratories are fast catching up. But they have a long way to go. What is more important is the provision of a legal framework to build a national database and administer it in conformity with international standards.
As far as I know, Indian judicial proceedings in rape cases rarely involve DNA profiling (if someone has information to the contrary please post here -- I am genuinely curious about this). Some basic sleuthing on google led me to only one instance where DNA evidence was used in a rape case.
Arrey sunti ho, ab in dono ki shaadi kar dalo, nahin to ye sex-wex karne lagenge un Amreekion ki tarah.
What does this mean? (I tried googling it, but no luck)
I was just listening to a conversation between 3 ladies here (jury duty, yep they got a cyber cafe here).
One was saying how her daughter is an attorney and she relayed a case where the accused rapist got of by stating that he had a ring around his penis which gave all the women he was with alot of pleasure. They asked the victim, or the plaintiff, if she felt the ring during her attack and she said "no". That got him off! And in America!
The same women was saying that back in the day when her mother was in nurses training (probably 1940s, 50s or early 60s) that some of the doctors used to put their hands down their shirts (in those days the uniform showed some cleavage I guess) at random times to cop feels. She said her mom said there was nothing you could do. The fear was that if you complained you would lose your job.
WTF?
Then another woman (a cop) said she had to tolerate hearing all kinds of rude conversations in the beginning of her career as a policewoman from the other male cops. Their conversations were gross but later they chilled out.
Well, if people are getting together and conversing amongst themselves I don't know if that is a case for complaint (unless they are talking about you).
But I know alot of cases do come forth regarding racial slurs in conversations so then why not gender slurs?
Apparently, cheerleading accounts for half the head and spine injuries that girl athletes suffer!
What accounts for the other half?
Also, in India, when a woman dresses and dances around like that, alot of people do take it that she is available for sex with anyone who wants. That is not an uncommon view there. Nevermind that some of these women may be married, in committed relationships and have kids with someone else. The very fact that they are showing so much skin is "evidence" in the minds of many that they want sex from someone - anyone.
Then, as with porn and movies where white women are having sex, Indian men assume all white women in India are looking for it at anytime random time with any Chintu or Munnu as well.
Not all Indian men, but alot think like this. I have heard them talk like this many times.
Baba I'm telling you --- this has ramifications. I wish someone would have briefed these women on the social and gender issues of India before they made fools of themselves in the name of Amrikan Football or Indian Krikit.
The sexual is political.
The sexual is political.
The sexual is political.
Haven't we learned anything from the 60s and 70s?
Sisterhood is Powerful!
192 · too_much_filth said
Rahul and portmanteau, please STFU and get a room already.
I for one am sick and tired of all your sleazy double entendres.
dear grinch who stole xxx-mas, i don't know if you're a disgruntled dilli police officer who harasses amorous couple at lodhi gardens or an over-zealous junior member of the bajrang dal cyber squad or an unemployed bollywood villain, but you just made my day. today in the long and illustrious list of thwarted lovers: romeo and juliet; tristan-isolde; petrarch and laura; heer-ranjha; laila-majnu; sohni-mahiwal; jack-ennis; salim-anarkali...we have another entry...rahul and port.
besides, we would get a room, but mom and dad told us to wait until we were lawfully wedded. online sleaziness is how we expend all those pent-up, uh, feelings.
[ps: if TMF's opinion is widely shared among the sepia community -- i'll respectfully stop posting.]
[pps: TMF, i'm surprised that on a messageboard that had more than a couple instances of misogynistic insults, your delicate sensibilities were hurt only by consensual conversation.]
I was just listening to a conversation between 3 ladies here (jury duty, yep they got a cyber cafe here).
that was a sad post. also hurtful for some personal reasons.
rob, thank you for your warm gesture -- i really appreciate it. praise be for the many kindnesses of strangers.
204 · Floridian said
They are so cute together, hai na? Arrey sunti ho, ab in dono ki shaadi kar dalo, nahin to ye sex-wex karne lagenge un Amreekion ki tarah.
Chachaji in #155,
Thanks for that compliment. As I have commented earlier (and others also), your comments are one of the finest written comments I have read. You have writing skills ... you should write a book !!
209 · HMF said
Arrey sunti ho, ab in dono ki shaadi kar dalo, nahin to ye sex-wex karne lagenge un Amreekion ki tarah.
are you listening (a common idiomatic way of referring to your spouse, especially back in the day people did not refer to each other by name), get these two married; otherwise, they'll start to fornicate (lit. translation; "do $ex) like those americans.
the style in which the post was written will seem slightly old-fashioned [and hence, quite amusing] to those who are fluent hindi-speakers.
I was just listening to a conversation between 3 ladies here (jury duty, yep they got a cyber cafe here).
that was a sad post. also hurtful for some personal reasons.
Khoofia, I was also depressed hearing these women talk.
Arrey sunti ho, ab in dono ki shaadi kar dalo, nahin to ye sex-wex karne lagenge un Amreekion ki tarah.
are you listening (a common idiomatic way of referring to your spouse, especially back in the day people did not refer to each other by name), get these two married; otherwise, they'll start to fornicate (lit. translation; "do $ex) like those americans.
It was the wife who did not take her husbands name. Still this is a common practice. Heard that it was thought that if a wife was so "disrespectful" as to take the name of her pati-parameshwar, that his life would be shortened each time she did it.
Brainwashing. And not in Texas.
Port, regarding your post #217, what exactly in your opinion made Floridian's Hindi seem old fashioned? I ask out of curiosity, because most of the sentence seemed pretty much like the Hindi you or I or anybody would speak. I should like to point out that I am non native Hindi speaker though, so I might be mistaken. :)
Ah, I see the 'arrey sunti ho' bit might be construed as old fashioned...Or would it be the 'sex-wex' bit? :)
nahin to ye sex-wex karne
Is that like "shopping-whopping" you always hear the aunties say en route to this or that _____(fill in the blank) - nagar?
Shexy.
Even.
217 · portmanteau
the style in which the post was written will seem slightly old-fashioned [and hence, quite amusing] to those who are fluent hindi-speakers.
I am 56. What did you expect?
Yeah Mr.Wise, sounds like regular Hindi to me too. Especially U.P. style.
sex-wex
shopping-whopping
school phool
roti foti
they do that all the time.
This also reminds me of Hooters trying to make it's way into India a few years ago. I think the plan was cancelled wasn't it? Probably could not find enough Indian women willing to be waitresses in such a scenario. But the Russians would've done it. Any update on that? I googled but can't find any new news.
The waitresses in the ISKCON Delhi temple are Russians.
One Indian friend of mine asked why they have women waitresses in a "religious" restaurant.
191 · HMF said
That's a rip from Tommorow Never Dies. Is it de-mencia ?
HMF, 'cunning linguist' is not a xeroxed pun as much as it is a common honorific for loved loving ones [:)] whose copyright protection has long worn-off.
223 · Floridian said
I am 56. What did you expect?
Floridian, that was not intended as a dig at your age, but an honest (and evidently, failed) attempt to explain why that comment would be so hilarious to those who understand hindi.
219 · Very Scary said
It was the wife who did not take her husbands name.
Yes, that restriction was more applicable to wives. But it was also quite common to address the wife not by her name, but as "arrey bhaag(ya)van," "babloo ki maa," or "arrey sunti ho." Several traditional families also did not call the 'bahu' (daughter-in-law) by her name as well -- instead using place of origin as the identifier to convey respect. Hence, we have 'kalkatte-waali' or 'dilli-waali' -- 'the lady from calcutta,' or the 'the lady from delhi.' upper-class muslims also used 'begum' as a respectful appellation for wife.
226 · portmanteau 223 · Floridian said I am 56. What did you expect?
226 · portmanteau Floridian, that was not intended as a dig at your age, but an honest (and evidently, failed) attempt to explain why that comment would be so hilarious to those who understand hindi.
Achha beti, tujhe maaf kiya. Lekin tu Rahul se bach kar rahna. Wo ladka mujhe to bilkul pasand nahin.
227 · portmanteau said
But it was also quite common to address the wife not by her name
I remember reading an article on this, not sure if it is by shobha de. According to the author, this practice tends to curb the very identity of wife as a person, and she is referred always as "bunty's mom" etc
Chachaji@155: Thanks! I may be the punster, but you're the pundit!
Port:
But it was also quite common to address the wife not by her name
There used to be an older practice among some families where the son's family used to decide that they liked a certain prospective girl as their son's bride, but her (first) name was not suitable, for reasons ranging from numerology to a blatant "I have the ability to change my daughter-in-law's name" power play. Since the custom was for the bride's last name (or initial) to change anyway, her entire name would change. I personally have an older cousin who went through that - her "official" name on the birth certificate and in school was A, but within the family and extended family, she was called B (which was not a derivative of A), and her husband's family called her C. It was almost like a recipe for creating an identity crisis.
Who came up with the new marketing idea (I bet it was the Americans!)? I don't think cricket will ever go out of fashion with the new tactic! :P
another aption - Nach Mayuri tumhe paisa milega. Wasn't that some bollywood song ?
230 · pingpong said
but her (first) name was not suitable, for reasons ranging from numerology to a blatant "I have the ability to change my daughter-in-law's name" power play.
this change of name was ubiquitous in sindhi families, and is not uncommon now either. during the marriage ceremony, after the kanyadaan, the woman is said to have been reborn to new parents (ie the parents-in-law). as in the hindu naming ceremony for newborns, the pandits pick out an auspicious letter and ask the father-in-law to softly whisper a new name in the bride's ear.
it did not happen in my father's family in my mum's generation, although the older ones among his sisters and many of the women in my extended family go by one name in their husband's family, and their birth names in their parents' family. i thought this was an incredibly annoying practice, but it doesn't seem to bother the women who underwent the name change (and the vast majority of them did not have the option to approve the name, although a few did).
this reminds me of my semester abroad in jaipur, i was the only desi in the group and the rest of the American girls seemed an irresistible lure to the local men. i remember going with three of the girls to a dhandiya for navratri on this big, cleared off field with two dancing areas penned off. we turn around mid-thwack and the entire half-circle closest to us was filled with men with their cell phone cameras pointed straight at us. looks kinda similar...
Rahul S and Topcat,
Leave me alone. I shan't be posting on Sepia any more. It appears to have become a forum where men like you with no desire to understand another point of view get to substitute debate with slander.
I don't wish to be harassed online -- I get enough of it in real life.
I dont think you are upset about the cheer girls but the cheer girls being white. You have elaborated that in your post #68. I would have supported you if you spoke against obscenity in general. But you categorically turned this thread into socalled "oppressed Indian women"-"empowered white woman" arguement. We all have problems but we should learn to laugh once in a while.
Bridget Jones another aption - Nach Mayuri tumhe paisa milega. Wasn't that some bollywood song ?
Actually its "Nach meri bulbul, tujhe paisa milega" from the Rajesh Khanna classic Roti.
HMF, 'cunning linguist' is not a xeroxed pun as much as it is a common honorific for loved loving ones [:)] whose copyright protection has long worn-off.
Alright, it's not a mystery where your loyalties will lay, nor would I ever make an effort to change them. But somehow I don't think the esteemed readers knew the multiple usages.
Many thanks for Hindi decryption.
237 · HMF href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005153.html#comment200950">said
ut somehow I don't think the esteemed readers knew the multiple
usages.
no shit, sherlock! the game is afoot!
i knew you probably got hit on the head with a big rock, which explains your addled brain function, but i didn't realize all the time you were living under it too. remember, google is your friend.
no shit, sherlock! the game is afoot!
so the writers of Tommorrow Never Dies and/or Mrs. Doubtfire were your campaign strategizers?
228 · Floridian said
Achha beti, tujhe maaf kiya. Lekin tu Rahul se bach kar rahna. Wo ladka mujhe to bilkul pasand nahin.
Ram Ram Floridian kaka! Maine aapko kya samjha, aur aap kya nikle? Main gareeb hoon naa, isliye aap yeh baatein kar rahe hain. Haan, aaj aapke paas paisa hai, bangla hai, gaadi hai, mere paas toh sirf mera pyaar, our mera sleaziness hai. magar ek din mein bhi bahut bada business typhoon banoonga, aur sara shahar floridian constructions nahin, rahul ka naam pukaarega.
... crashing tablas ... and.. scene!
Arrey beta, ub tera dard mujhse dekha nahin jata. Jab se tu ghar chor kar gaya hai, teri kaaki ne ek kaur khana nahin khaya. Saare din teri tasveer or teri Eliot wali kitaab ko dekhti rahnti hain. Ub ghar laut aah. Main khud hi ladki wallon ke paas jaoonga teri shaadi ki baat pakki karne. Thik hai, agar tu ne BA me char bar fail kiya hai to kya? Tu ek din jaroor bada aadmi banega.
Spectators: " Vee gut zpirit, yes vee dooo, vee gut zpirit, how butt you ??? "
cheerleaders: "Like, Oh my gawd,Once you go brown, you can't turn around."
Rundi Jackson is a Gujarati taking part in the entrepreneurial/risk taking spirit.
241 · Floridian said
Arrey beta, ub tera dard mujhse dekha nahin jata. Jab se tu ghar chor kar gaya hai, teri kaaki ne ek kaur khana nahin khaya. Saare din teri tasveer or teri Eliot wali kitaab ko dekhti rahnti hain. Ub ghar laut aah. Main khud hi ladki wallon ke paas jaoonga teri shaadi ki baat pakki karne. Thik hai, agar tu ne BA me char bar fail kiya hai to kya? Tu ek din jaroor bada aadmi banega.
Floridian kaka, aapne theek bola. Aur sahi vakt par bhi. Kyun ki portmanteau mere bachche ki maa banne vaali hai.
(Alright that's the last of it from me, in order to avoid being unfriendly to all the mutineers who don't understand Hindi.)
Thik hai, agar tu ne BA me char bar fail kiya hai to kya?
Does this line have anything to do with BA Barracus?
For those who don't speak Hindi, a translation:
Floridian: Achha beti, tujhe maaf kiya. Lekin tu Rahul se bach kar rahna. Wo ladka mujhe to bilkul pasand nahin.Rahul: Ram Ram Floridian kaka! Maine aapko kya samjha, aur aap kya nikle? Main gareeb hoon naa, isliye aap yeh baatein kar rahe hain. Haan, aaj aapke paas paisa hai, bangla hai, gaadi hai, mere paas toh sirf mera pyaar, our mera sleaziness hai. magar ek din mein bhi bahut bada business typhoon banoonga, aur sara shahar floridian constructions nahin, rahul ka naam pukaarega.
... crashing tablas ... and.. scene!
Floridian: Arrey beta, ub tera dard mujhse dekha nahin jata. Jab se tu ghar chor kar gaya hai, teri kaaki ne ek kaur khana nahin khaya. Saare din teri tasveer or teri Eliot wali kitaab ko dekhti rahnti hain. Ub ghar laut aah. Main khud hi ladki wallon ke paas jaoonga teri shaadi ki baat pakki karne. Thik hai, agar tu ne BA me char bar fail kiya hai to kya? Tu ek din jaroor bada aadmi banega.
Rahul: Floridian kaka, aapne theek bola. Aur sahi vakt par bhi. Kyun ki portmanteau mere bachche ki maa banne vaali hai.
F: Beti, I forgive you. But stay away from the Rahul. I really dislike that boy.
R: Ram, Ram Floridian kaka (uncle)! You’ve turned out to be very different from what I thought you were initially. I’m a poor man, that’s why you’re saying these things about me. It’s true that today you have a big bungalow*, a car. But I’ve only got this love and my sleaziness. But one day, you’ll see, I’ll be a big business typhoon [sic], -- the whole world won’t be speaking of Floridian Constructions**, but calling Rahul’s name.
[crashing tablas]
F: Oh beta, I can’t see you so tormented anymore. Since you’ve left the house your kaaki hasn’t eaten a morsel. All day she looks at your picture or stares at your Eliot book. Come back home! I will personally go to the girl’s family, to set the date for your wedding. So what if you failed your BA four times? I’m sure that you will become a great man someday.
R: Floridian Kaka, you’re right. In fact, you’re also right on time. Because portmanteau is actually bearing my child.***
*nice, big house in India. Also this line is a riff on a very famous scene from the movie that is said to have sealed Amitabh Bachchan’s fate as Bollywood God, Deewar.
** big theme in 1970s movies, where the rich (bad) guy used to be a builder, and the hero would either be setting up a rival real estate business, or wanting rich guy’s daughter’s hand in marriage or both. See Trishul.
*** Hindi movie cliché. This line is a source of endless amusement to folks in the desh.
This whole dialog would be funny to Hindi speakers because it imitates Bollywood melodrama, and the style is quite overwrought. I hate being not in on the joke myself, so it's my attempt at including those who care. And it's a classic example of humor in the desh, a lot of which exploits Bollywood cliche.
I'm reposting because of formating glitches. SM intern, could you delete the last comment.
For those who don't speak Hindi, a translation:
Floridian: Achha beti, tujhe maaf kiya. Lekin tu Rahul se bach kar rahna. Wo ladka mujhe to bilkul pasand nahin.Rahul: Ram Ram Floridian kaka! Maine aapko kya samjha, aur aap kya nikle? Main gareeb hoon naa, isliye aap yeh baatein kar rahe hain. Haan, aaj aapke paas paisa hai, bangla hai, gaadi hai, mere paas toh sirf mera pyaar, our mera sleaziness hai. magar ek din mein bhi bahut bada business typhoon banoonga, aur sara shahar floridian constructions nahin, rahul ka naam pukaarega.
... crashing tablas ... and.. scene!
Floridian: Arrey beta, ub tera dard mujhse dekha nahin jata. Jab se tu ghar chor kar gaya hai, teri kaaki ne ek kaur khana nahin khaya. Saare din teri tasveer or teri Eliot wali kitaab ko dekhti rahnti hain. Ub ghar laut aah. Main khud hi ladki wallon ke paas jaoonga teri shaadi ki baat pakki karne. Thik hai, agar tu ne BA me char bar fail kiya hai to kya? Tu ek din jaroor bada aadmi banega.
Rahul: Floridian kaka, aapne theek bola. Aur sahi vakt par bhi. Kyun ki portmanteau mere bachche ki maa banne vaali hai.
F: Beti, I forgive you. But stay away from the Rahul. I really dislike that boy.
R: Ram, Ram Floridian kaka (uncle)! You've turned out to be very different from what I thought you were initially. I'm a poor man, that's why you're saying these things about me. It's true that today you have a big bungalow*, a car. But I've only got this love and my sleaziness. But one day, you'll see, I'll be a big business typhoon [sic], -- the whole world won't be speaking of Floridian Constructions**, but calling Rahul's name.
[crashing tablas]
F: Oh beta, I can't see you so tormented anymore. Since you've left the house your kaaki hasn't eaten a morsel. All day she looks at your picture or stares at your Eliot book. Come back home! I will personally go to the girl's family, to set the date for your wedding. So what if you failed your BA four times? I'm sure that you will become a great man someday.
R: Floridian Kaka, you're right. In fact, you're also right on time. Because portmanteau is actually bearing my child.***
*nice, big house in India. Also this line is a riff on a very famous scene from the movie that is said to have sealed Amitabh Bachchan's fate as Bollywood God, Deewar.
** big theme in 1970s movies, where the rich (bad) guy used to be a builder, and the hero would either be setting up a rival real estate business, or wanting rich guy's daughter's hand in marriage or both. See Trishul.
*** Hindi movie cliche. This line is a source of endless amusement to folks in the desh.
This whole dialog would be funny to Hindi speakers because it imitates Bollywood melodrama, and the style is quite overwrought. I hate being not in on the joke myself, so it's my attempt at including those who care. And it's a classic example of humor in the desh, a lot of which exploits Bollywood cliche.
Rahul:
Floridian kaka, aapne theek bola. Aur sahi vakt par bhi. Kyun ki portmanteau mere bachche ki maa banne vaali hai.
Port, that was a nice seva you did for the non-Hindi samajhne waale.
non-Hindi samajhne waale.
Waale, does this have to do with the new pixar film?
The music and the caption... Shake It Like A White Girl
250 · HMF said
Waale, does this have to do with the new pixar film?
I see you're extending your argument comprehension skillz to (mis)understanding Hindi as well ;) Ah well, HMF, your consistency is always endearing :)
I see you're extending your argument comprehension skillz to
Sure, I have do have this crazy knack to make sense.
(mis)understanding Hindi as well
Are you that much of a Hindi snob, that knowing Hindi = thinking logically?
253 · HMF said
Are you that much of a Hindi snob, that knowing Hindi = thinking logically?
Dude, there you go misrepresenting me again. What I mean was that you take people's views out of context and mangle them, and that you're doing the same thing with Hindi sentences. And besides it was just a stupid quip to which you could also respond with humor. Anyway forget that I ever said it.
God knows I've no reason (or ability) to justify being a Hindi snob.
Nice family drama there Rahul/ Floridian/ Portmanteau.
But no family drama would be complete without the ubiquitous villain i.e. "Prem naam hai mera" Chopra.
So here goes.
"Abe Seth (Floridian), tumhari masoom bacchi (Portmanteau) mere kabje me hai.
Agar use zinda dekna chahte ho to kal raat barah baje Andheri ghat pe dus crore rupaiya ke saath pahunch jao.
Aur tu be sun le bevade (Rahul). Agar tu ne kuch pange kee na, to shahnai kee nahin, balki shamshan ki awaz gunjegi."
What I mean was that you take people's views out of context and mangle them, and that you're doing the same thing with Hindi sentences.
That doesn't make sense because Hindi sentences mean as much to me as swahili sentences do. how could I mangle or take out of context something I don't even understand? And point to me where I take "people's" views out of context, I'll gladly set you straight.
PLAGIARISM???
Caught and doesn't want to admit it? Rahul is on the case!
re palgiarism: some ideas are just in the air. i invented the koodies. but i don't know who invented the koodie shot.
re palgiarism: some ideas are just in the air.
That is true, some ideas are plainly obvious in the "public domain", like if I say , "so and so kicked the bucket" but a phrase like cunning linguist I'd say doesn't fit into that group.
but a phrase like cunning linguist I'd say doesn't fit into that group.
you should tell that to all the esteemed mutineers who've used it in the past.
I see you're extending your argument comprehension skillz toSure, I have do have this crazy knack to make sense.
(mis)understanding Hindi as well
Are you that much of a Hindi snob, that knowing Hindi = thinking logically?
I think this shrill self-declamation of your logical abilities (because who else is going to affirm them?) immediately followed by evidence of that chip on your shoulder says it all. HMF, you do make me laugh. And not like anybody I've ever known.
you should tell that to all the esteemed mutineers who've used it in the past.
half of those posts were Anna.
HMF, you do make me laugh. And not like anybody I've ever known.
Do factual sentences usually make you laugh? here's a few more, you'll be in stitches:
1+1 = 2
red is a color
the sky is blue.
But no family drama would be complete without the ubiquitous villain i.e. "Prem naam hai mera" Chopra.
Where is the gratuitous item number?
Speaking of groups ...
Alright. You guys got it.
261 · HMF said
half of those posts were Anna.
i looked, and that is not true. hmf, i thought books were going to be written about how real you keep it.
i looked, and that is not true.
You got it, not half, but certainly more than a few. I admit, I hadn't taken the time to count thoroughly.
hmf, i thought books were going to be written about how real you keep it.
If it's that important, I think I made that comment w/respect to commitment my belief in male-female equality, which is indeed the case.
it looks like these cheerleaders will be banned
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/26/windia126.xml
From the Washington Post;
At the game, the crowd roared every time the cheerleaders appeared on the big screen. "I wish I could wear a bikini, but that's not allowed for Indian women," said Bollywood actress Rakhi Sawant
Please, what? Will she be arrested for beachcombing Goa in a bikini? The only thing that stops women like that our their own minds and how much power they give their neighbor's opinion over their life.
“We live in India where womanhood is worshipped. How can anything obscene like this be allowed?,” Siddharam Mehetre told the Press Trust of India news agency.
Yep, and I've got some WMDs in Iraq to sell you, Siddharam ji.
There have been reports in the Indian newspapers of cheerleaders complaining of sections of the crowd jeering at them and making lewd comments.
Really? Who would've ever thought?
Some TV pundits pointed out that the Redskins cheerleaders are showing more skin on the cricket pitch than most Indian men will see before marriage.
Let's face it, it's likely to be more skin than they will see after marriage as well! LOL!!!
it looks like these cheerleaders will be banned
This whole fiasco could've been averted if only a rep from Blank Noise Project had been flown to USA to prep the women on how women could expect to be treated in India. Then I wonder how many American cheerleaders would've boarded that Mumbai-bound plane?
From the Telegraph
"All the organizers are doing by making scantily clad white women dance in front of huge crowds is to stoke the base, voyeuristic and sexual insecurities of the Indian male. It's revolting and crude," historian Ramachandra Guha said.
I agree.
More from the Telegraph;
"We do expect people to pass lewd, snide remarks but I am shocked by the nature and magnitude of the comments people pass here (in India)" cheerleader Tabitha from Uzbekistan said."Be it a 70-year-old or a 15-year-old kid they all letch at us and make amorous advances.
"We are living in constant fear of being molested," she bemoaned.
Who's crazy idea was this? Why did they not prepare the women for what they would face in that country?
If they had, I bet not a single cheerleader would've gone there.
It's crazy. If I were the cheerleaders I would sue whoever cooked this up. He has put women's lives at risk.
Disgusting.
11 · Rahul said
I realize that native Bangaloreans are bitter they are just clinging to trishuls
Rahul said :
Where is the gratuitous item number?
The saga continues ...
Smoking item number from Portmanteau's "soutalee" sister Manju, during which she reveals secret crush on Rahul.
Then phone rings with Prem Chopra demanding money.
Prem Chopra : Haraamiyon, Juldee mere paise lao, nahin to Portmanteau khalas!!!
Rahul : Portmanteau jaye bhaad mey. Mai to Manju se ab shaadi karoonga.
Prem Chopra : Makkaar, Bewafaa, Gaddaar ...
Rahul : Click. (Hangs up).
Floridian : Beta Rahul, tumhari gaddaree mujhe bahut pasand aiyee. Tum business world mey very successful hogey. Mey tumhe "Floridian Constructions" kee chairman banaonga.
Manju : Thank you Sasur-ji. Voh Portmanteau bahut slutty thi. Voh barabar meri Victoria's Secret bra and panties chura key Rahul ko seduce kiya karti thi.
Portmanteau (in Prem Chopra's adda) : MEN !!!. Ajee suno Prem Chopra-ji, aak kyaa single ho na ??
I suppose majority of you or your parents are from India, very strange you don’t find anything good in that culture. Yes, I agree my society is not perfect, but is no other society. Will it be proper for me to say American culture is nothing but teenage pregnancies, drugs, adultery, divorce, not caring one’s parents, warmongering, guns, high school shootings? How your people behaved during Hurricane Katrina, How many shoots were fired, how many women were raped? In my country such disasters happen every other month, we come together, we care for each other, we don’t kill, we don’t rape and on top of that we have bomb blasts, terrorism, riots, even everyday life for a common person is not less a than war but we manage to move on, we still haven’t forgotten to smile and we don’t need Prozac for that, and in spite of all this we have hope in future, we know we have been through worse and we survived, this too will pass and a bright future awaits us. If now, if have you gotten some idea of present day situation in India you may understand, getting “sexually liberated� isn’t top of our agenda, partly because we have important things to do and partly because unlike you we don’t want our future generations to grow up without knowing who their father is.
The good people of Tamilnadu will never stand for such debauchery.
"All the organizers are doing by making scantily clad white women dance in front of huge crowds is to stoke the base, voyeuristic and sexual insecurities of the Indian male. It's revolting and crude," historian Ramachandra Guha said.
hmmm ... Guha, lord love him, manages to make "stoke the base" sound sexual and voyeuristic.
