These people are actually quite serious, when they inform us of the punishments we are likely to receive for making, viewing, or thinking about the upcoming Mike Myers’ comedy, The Love Guru. One of the groups leading the protests is the Hindu Janjagruti Samiti, which has, based on the trailer, judged the film as offensive to Hindus because it mocks the sanctity of the Guru-Shishya relationship. They have drawn up an open letter of protest to the MPAA, and sent out press releases, generating straight-faced coverage like this (thanks, PremiumSchlock).
Unfortunately, while many news organizations have been attending to the budding protests against The Love Guru, few news stories have been paying attention to other creative documents by the Hindu Janjagruti Samiti relating to the film, such as the following table:
|
Act |
Demerit |
Means |
|
Making the movie, ‘The Love Guru’ |
30 units |
2nd region of Hell for 1000 years |
|
Watching it for entertainment without knowing the spiritual science/significance |
2 units |
Nether region (Bhuvaloka) for 100 yrs |
|
Watching it for entertainment even after knowing the spiritual science/ significance |
5 units |
1st region of Hell for 100 yrs |
|
Being a seeker of God/on the spiritual path, knowing about the Movie, but doing nothing to stop it |
5 units |
1st region of Hell for 100 yrs |
(Source for the above table.) And how many demerits do I get for finding this table hilarious? (I must admit, I am rather curious about this “nether region” idea.)
Their open letter to the MPAA is also unintentionally comic:
The trailer released by Paramount pictures shows utter disrespect for the deep spiritual significance of the Guru. It shows the Guru in a very poor light and encourages the audience to laugh at the Guru. I could not believe my eyes when the trailer revealed Mike Myers playing a Guru through a whole range of denigrating scenes, some of which are quite lurid, such as the Guru wearing a chastity belt, having an erection, involved in bar brawls, accepting money to playing cupid, etc. In the trailer the character Pitka is proclaimed as the second best Guru in India. Was this a calculated statement or was this pulled out of some juvenile script writer’s repertoire? For a country that has produced revered Gurus and Saints such as Swami Vivekanand, Ramkrushna Paramhansa and Yogi Arvind, does Paramount Pictures actually believe that Mike Meyer’s portrayal of a Guru will join the ranks of the most illustrious Saints/Guru’s of India? Was your research team / script writer not aware of the sanctity of the Guru prior to making the movie? Did they even consult leaders in Spirituality (apart from Mr. Deepak Chopra of course) if the script was potentially hurting? (link)
“The script was potentially hurting” — indeed.
The protests to this film might turn out to be funnier than the film itself.
Absolutely hilarious; I had to stop myself from laughing long enough to type this...oops here is comes again!
Update:
Act: Making fun of the punishment on a blog or its comment section
Demerit: 0.5 unit
Means: That qrtr of hell, where there's no icecream
--
:) Can u believe it that the letter was supposedly written by a "Sean Clarke" a possible MBA graduate from Australia?
You wanna bet such jokers may be able to get this movie banned in India? Or for that matter, cheerleading at IPL games.
I am glad that Indian Americans have finally assimilated, and imbibed the best of America.
Do I have to be a cunning linguist to understand what going to the nether region means?
Janjagruti Samiti seems to be secretly Catholic and the table is just his version of The Divine Comedy.
I'm with you on that.
Could be a slick viral marketing campaign.
Hasn't Rajan "saffron balls" Zed been feeling guru-envy of Mike Myers, and didn't he originally stoke the flames on this?
Someone needs to let others in on the joke that is "The Love Guru". It makes fun of westerners who go to India, get "enlightened", pick-up a phenomenal accent and a measured speech pattern, some chants, clothes and yoga moves and then return *to make loads of money off of gullible westerners and bed the ladies who dig the accent and the whole enlightened disguise.
*it's all in the marketing, stoopid*
Yeah, it's too bad that elephants are involved. Now that is an outrage!
Demerit: a million
Means: 1000 years in the 3rd region (swimming in animal feces).
A friend of mine in college had a huge black Lucite bong that he called "The Obsidian Lord of the Nether Regions"... and that pretty much exhausts my knowledge on this topic...
Hasn't Rajan "saffron balls" Zed been feeling guru-envy of Mike Myers, and didn't he originally stoke the flames on this?
Yes, and I have to say I'm not impressed. Zed emerged quickly last year after the incident where he was to do a prayer in the Senate, only to be stifled by right-wing loonies. I do respect his accomplishment and his bravery there, though I don't know much about him -- where he stands on other issues. Still, I think this film is just going to be one to skip, not protest.
Here, I think Deepak Chopra has actually got the situation exactly right:
But Dr Chopra, who is making waves with two bestsellers, The Buddha (a novel) and The Third Jesus in which he argues that Jesus Christ is not the monopoly of Christian churches, would not have wanted Paramount to show the film to Zed and like-minded protesters.
"Mike was being conciliatory," says Dr Chopra, speaking in his austere office at the Chopra Spa in New York. "He said he will meet them, show them the movie, etc. I called Mike and said to him 'If you think you are going to placate them, you are going to anger them even more.' I would not placate them."
Dr Chopra, who is being called the anti-Christ and a devil by fundamentalist Christians for claiming that Christ never intended to start a religion, adds: "I would make fun of them (the Hindu groups). I would say your faith is so weak that a comedy can offend you. I would then tell them, Your faith is not faith; it's a cover up for insecurity. Just because you are vegetarian and you dress like Hindus it doesn't mean you have strong faith."
(Forgive me, if you're of the fairer sex.)
Yep, Oprah Chopra has been quite sane on this. Of course, he's nothing if not a good businessman who knows his market. The fact that he has a cameo in the movie and is also planning to release a book related to the movie ("Why is God laughing?) has nothing to do with his support, I'm sure.
Not to worry, Dravidians are not fair, not even veatish.
Is this an America based organization or India based? As in India we don't write letters we burn effigies :)
(Forgive me, if you're of the fairer sex.)
Not to worry, Dravidians are not fair, not even veatish.
99 demerits!!!
@%#$$& argh! what's with that?!
Take Two: bess punstar to Rahuligan
I'm starting to respect him now. Ask me how I know ; )I've lost my motivation. And now Dravidian won't speak to me...
Most branches of Hinduism actually acknowledge that the sheer complexity/tangled mass of causes and effects make it too difficult to determine specific outcomes based on single actions, especially those that involve being reborn in different places/states. This chart, besides violating that belief with its ridiculous simplicity, is also extremely hilarious!
I think the way in which I watch this film will be decided once I find out in whose nether regions I may have to spend time.
Ah, someone finally linked to the Official Website of the Troll Sena. I've avoided doing so myself - even though they are the source of numerous death/rape threats towards yours truly - because they thrive on attention.
I also have newfound respect for Chopra, after reading reading Amardeep's comment #13.
Nina -- I did link to them earlier (they were also "offended" by the Clinton-Obama/Radha-Krishna image I blogged about a few weeks ago), but I didn't name them then. There's always a question in my mind with groups like this of whether it's better to just ignore them...
I'm sorry to hear about the threats, and even more disgusted by them now than I already was.
In happier news, good luck with SStB at Tribeca Film Festival this week and next!
What's the penalty for seeing it just to witness the degree/nature of the inevitable peaceful, amicable, conciliatory resolution toward Hinduism/"Eastern" spirituality?
Does that count as special investigation, or is no degree of conciliatory resolution possible to make up for the egregiousness of the trailer, thus negating any virtuous curiosity about the last 5-10 minutes of the film?
Actually saw the new trailer for it last night before Ironman. It looked funnier than I thought it would be and probably had any right to be, however the comedy and structure of the movie is the same as Austin Powers.
Mike Myers is definitely no Peter Sellers.
What's more interesting to discuss is how if this had been another religion or culture being 'mocked', the film might not have even gotten made.
While I like the smorgasbord style of Hinduism and easy going style of our culture, would like it to have more political power like other minorities in the US.
Oh Amardeep, Rahul...this must have reaallly made your day. You must be sooo happy. Elated, even. I mean, how often does this happen?
Happy Friday...
M. Nam
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Media__Entertainment_/Entertainment/Hindus_in_US_want_screening_of_The_Love_Guru_blocked/articleshow/3000933.cms
Some peeps seem to be offended at this movie.
Indeed, how do you know, Bess?
27 · MoorNam said
I wasn't because the Shiv Seniacs and their ilk protesting Indian culture by banning cheerleaders had me bouncing already (yes, I have a delicate temperament), but I am indeed touched to hear that you are always thinking about my happiness.
You love me, you really love me!
Happy Friday to you too, Moornam!
22 · Nina P said
he's certainly capable of a lucid thought or two (given he runs a lucrative culture-pimping business)but I have nothing but contempt for someone who took knowledge that should be open-source and tried to front like it could be proprietary. It's odd that Mike Meyers is buddy-buddy with Chopra and doesn't see how you could easily make a 'Guru' movie that mocked Chopra mercilessly for being the soulless charlatan that he really is.
How do you know? You were probably the tree that went into the making of the 1963 edition of Situation Ethics that you later picked up, etc.
Or maybe, you were an elephant.
Why is a Hindu group threatening with regions of hell, anyway? I thought Hindus just get reinvented, I mean, reincarnated. Am I giving my 5-year old wrong information? She is obsessed with the concept of death and I quickly realized a very 'vet'ted atheist's understanding of death is not an appropriate answer for a starry-eyed 5-year old. So I told her that her Hindu great grandmother believes she will be born again, perhaps, as her favorite breed of dog or her favorite Disney princess, while her very Christian grandmother on the other side believes we will all have a happy family reunion in heaven (glossing over the fact that mommy will probably not be invited to that family reunion). For now, these answers seem to have helped--she has made her own version of afterlife that involves both reincarnation and an ever-ever happy land called heaven. (Now I know eactly why religions were invented).
Question: do I need to go back to Hinduism 101? I hate to mislead my child on the specifics of the big, fat lie I tell to reassure her every night.
Rahul,
>> I wasn't because the Shiv Seniacs and their ilk protesting
It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?
1. The Bengal leftists are also protesting against the cheerleaders. Now, are they Shiv Sainik's "ilk"?
2. Rahul Dravid and other cricketters are against the cheerleaders.
3. Maharashtra government, which started the ban, is a Congress Government and ShivSena/BJP is in the opposition there.
Anyone want to bet how soon DMK will get on the bandwagon?
M. Nam
What's your point? That they are not the only crazies and cultural nazis in town? Well, at least I hope you won't beat me up or burn up my comments.
Thanks for crowning me, though.
Anyways, I don't want to hog the attention from the Sex Swami Yoni Yogi Love Guru, so if you feel strongly about my happiness, Moornam, I fervently urge you to write a letter to the authorities.
36 · Rahul said
What's your point? That they are not the only crazies and cultural nazis in town? Well, at least I hope you won't beat me up or burn up my comments.
Thanks for crowning me, though.
I just don't understand why MFH keeps doing these scandalous hindu painting(s) when there are so many other religions(or his own) where his artistic freedom is greatly appreciated :)
As a kid in India, we Catlicks were always going to Catechism classes . The rest of class attending something mysterious called "Moral Science". We were taught that once could go to heaven, or hell , or limbo. Now I know where the rest are headed :-)
Sounds like "Moksha Patamu", the Jain game stolen by Milton Bradley and turned into Snakes & Ladders that teaches about the consequences of action
Male... and very wheatish, actually. Having a white mother will do that for you. :)
Mike was being conciliatory," says Dr Chopra, speaking in his austere office at the Chopra Spa in New York. I would not placate them.
Translation: To feed white expectations is to F with your cash cow, never do anything to compromise that.
I would say your faith is so weak that a comedy can offend you
This of course is the ultimate in stupidity and misses the entire point. It's not that a comedy would offend you, it's the fact that mainstream white america has NOTHING ELSE to provide a counterbalance to illustrate it AS a comedy. Now of course, michael myers screams comedy, but remember, you and I and most people reading this KNOW it's a caricature! mainstream white america doesn't (necessarily, they'd be hard pressed to pick out what elements are caricature and what aren't) but compare Austin Powers, an obvious caricature, I'd say most of mainstream america knows that the average brit doesn't act that way (plus there's time travel and other crazy things going on in that movie) What's offensive is not the movie itself, but the fact that people don't have anything else to tell them explicitly... it's a complete, and utter satire.
As for Deepak Chopra not placating them, he doesn't need to, he's too busy placating his white masses and concentrating on the only color that really matters to him: green.
Because there is nothing reassuring about my stark, unpadded thoughts on the concept of death. (I agree with Dilip D'Souza: Death ends fun.) I don't mean to shield her from it forever--it is just that she is not ready to handle it just yet. Like you said in the other comment: she has come up with her own comforting idea of what happens to one after death. And I am fine with that for now.
As an independent adult, I want to stick as close as possible to what I believe is the reality of the world, but as a mother having to answer difficult questions from a scared child, I am willing to compromise on my principles for some indefinite time. When Jessica next door is happily reassured with a Barbie version of heaven, I don't want my child's innocence to end prematuredly.
As a Hindu, this movie is offensive and deeply hurtful. Why is it that when someone punches you in the face, he goes to jail, but when someone hurts you emotionally and spiritually in a way that is more hurtful and lasting, it's ok and even allowed to be profitable?
I'm confused myself. I read the whole thing about going to hell and seriously the concept of Heaven and Hell is fairly newly introducted into Hinduism. I mean isn't heaven and hell a state of your karmas from the generic brand of Hinduism I was raised on?
You gained good karma so you come back as a better person and not as a flea or something. So seriously forget your 5 year old this adult is totally confused how these maniacs came up with a very western cursing kind of burning hell. I mean I don't envision Shiva waiting at the gates with a searing hot Trishul waiting to brand my ass with it.
I just find the mainstream mention and importance of heaven and hell in this brand of Hinduism plain weird. I mean this is the whole reason why I'm Hindu and not Muslim or Christian. If I fuck up I come back in my own personal hell not someone else's hell or idea of it. So what's this all about.
Malathi, I hear ya. I've never been so intellecutally challenged as I've been by my inquisitive 5 yr. old - one recent question was why do we have god? I gave my answer and told my little one that my answer is different from the one she'd get from her grandparents, aunts, uncles and school. Not sure if that killed the innocence.
46 · Janeofalltrades said
Yeah there are references to hell and different kind of punishments administered by . Hindu equivalent of hell is Naragam. Except he boils you in a pan of oil etc etc based on your sins and then you get born again as whatever based on your deeds.
Yama is hell. its a NY based restaurant perennially ranked, by the california rollers, among the top sushi bars. they toss 1/2 foot slabs of fish on rice that gives one the feeling of being french kissed by a german shephard. its cultural appropriation at its worst. i don't care about michael myers or dropping your baby on its head, but this has to stop.
By the way, my question to you in comment # 33 was only tongue-in-cheek (stimulated by your funny and priceless comment # 11). I regretted not putting a smiley-face emoticon but by now I figure you took it in the light-hearted manner it was meant to be taken.
Also, thanks to JOAT for #46.
There is a heaven & hell concept in both Hinduism and some forms of Buddhism. The deviation from the Abrahamic religions is that both heaven & hell are not eternal fates in the Indic religions.
I am completely against any restrictions on freedom of speach, but I think the progressive crowd gets unhinged a bit too easily when Hindus voice their grievances peacefully. It's not the same situation as Christianity in the West where even the liberals (as represented by Labour and Democrats) continuously reaffirm their (Judeo-)Christianity. The only representations of Hinduism in Western popular media are negative and in India, excepting the BJP interregnum, secularism has been perverted to mean that only the majority community can be critiqued
The deviation from the Abrahamic religions is that both heaven & hell are not eternal fates in the Indic religions.
This is a pretty good guide to heaven and hell
Oh Gods, that made me laugh! Nether regions...but I do have a dirty mind :p
51 · louiecypher said
This is true. Most modern Hindus don't have much exposure to such beliefs, but they were a part of more mainstream forms of Hinduism for a good amount of time, and a close reading of certain texts that are still somewhat mainstream reveals their presence. For example, depending on my karma, I could be reborn as a Deva, maybe even the next Indra (since these Devas have been thought, from a few hundred years BC, to be mortal beings and within Samsara), or in a hell where I'm tortured. Once my related karma is extinguished, I could be born elsewhere and in another form. Also note that many Hindu stories speak of the "3 worlds", which implies a reference to this belief as well.
One of the earliest gripes of certain Hindu reformists at about 300 BC, and even the Buddha a few hundred before them, was that many people of the day wanted to get into Brahma's heaven and chill over there (it was supposedly full of pleasures and only happiness), which these philosophers saw as only a temporary respite from suffering, a distraction from the goal of complete salvation, and a way to generate neg. karma based on your attachments to the pleasures you would enjoy in those realms.
Read some of the comments on the website that this table comes from. Full of rabid right wing nut jobs. they need to be kicked in the nether regions.
Amardeep, are you trying to get me in trouble? The last time I had anything to do with my nether regions while watching a love gurur, I almost went to the jailhouse from the playhouse.
Are the Nether Regions the Nertherlands ? Please don't throw me into the briar patch...
49 · Manju said
Well if that's your criteria, Blue Ribbon might be your heaven.
34 · MoorNam said
It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?
1. The Bengal leftists are also protesting against the cheerleaders. Now, are they Shiv Sainik's "ilk"?
2. Rahul Dravid and other cricketters are against the cheerleaders.
3. Maharashtra government, which started the ban, is a Congress Government and ShivSena/BJP is in the opposition there.
Anyone want to bet how soon DMK will get on the bandwagon?
M. Nam
The DMK/DK and "pro-social justice" "rationalist" punks ran amok a couple of years ago when actress Kushboo expressed her contempt of men who demand that women remain "chaste" etc., And when Suhasini Maniratnam came to Kushboo's defence one of the punks threatened to throw her Aryan Brahmin wazoo out of the State. Recently when Shreya attended an awards ceremony dressed in a miniskirt (in the presence of Karunanidhi no less) the self-same "social justice" punks raised a huge furore, issuing the usual threats. The DMK/DK alphabet soup are the greatest hypocrites, demanding chastity of their women, when as a rule most of them are pretty adventurous. T.R. Baalu, Karunanidhi's enforcer/Gauleiter, and now Minister of Petroleum is in trouble because of a squabble between the children of his 1st wife and the ones of his 2nd.
Do you guys read the news or do you simply read the trash dished out by Vijay Prashad, Raju Ramasamy, Balmurli Natraj etc?
59 · jyotsana said
Don't know why we are discussing these other crazies (does it minimize this in some way?), but I'd mentioned the Tamil ruckus over cheerleaders this morning on that thread.
49 · Manju said
Ha Ha Ha
Atool@45
Movies are for fun. Everybody is equal before the eyes of the movies. If Borat, Harold Kumar escapes from Guatanamo bay and similar movies are acceptable then why not Love Guru ? But an interesting point I am mulling over is if Justin tearing apart Janets' blouse to expose her breasts is indecent then why is Love Guru and movies of similar kind not ?
And once again the controvery of freedom of speech and expression ?
Well glad about the mirth and merrymaking all 'round. Hope you all had a good time.
If it had been "The Maulana", I am sure would things would've been different.
You see, it is easy to ridicule a random table in an obscure website.Takes no courage at all.
No repercussions,smart comments and witty repartee to flout.
Get some perspective.Please stop punching soft targets.
I, for one, will definitely be taking my brown azz to see this movie...
to those "offended" desis I say:
"get laid"
I'm glad Hindus put a time limit on Hell, I hate that "your going to burn in Hell forever" Christian thing.
I've always wondered how people can be so detailed in descriptions of places which are not on any map, have no travel destinations in the known Universe, and -- to be brutally honest -- no one ever came back from with snapshots and/or video footage to tell us what it was like.
I've heard about this "Hell" all my life and so far nobody has produced so much as a singed eyebrow from it.
64 · stella said
When your unit of reckoning i.e., 1 Brahma life = 311 trillion years = 311,000,000,000,000 years - and not a mere 6,000 years, you tend to develope some sense of proportion about the idea of "eternity". No one deserves punishment that lasts that long?
these same people are the ones who have despicably threatened others with death and rape, so maybe they want to make their favorite hinduism just like that religion they secretly admire.
i think people like you are just jealous of the "respect" that you think radical muslims get for their faith. well, those who want to go that route shouldn't at least pretend that they are morally better or inherenly superior in some way.
not clear what this means.
Of course hindus have a hell and heaven. In fact there are several lokas (realms), serpent loka, ocean loka, many different sorts of celestial lokas, and quite a few hellish ones. So the guys who wrote the article probably aren't making this up. What they're being foolish about is taking it all so seriously. Just because ancient Indians were creative storytellers there's no need for twenty-first century twerps to be getting in a twist over it.
Anyway, I just try and ignore this sort of stuff now. But I'm more concerned with the karma and reincarnation thing. I'm probably going to land in Sepia Mutiny hell for saying this, but I've begun to believe that these concepts too belong in the realm of mythology. They are true in a superficial, obvious sort of way but for some reason people have started taking them a bit too seriously. Belief in reincarnation is perhaps an excellent rule of thumb to elicit good behavior. And maybe that's all it's supposed to be. If you read the works of the so-called enlightened beings from the tradition, none of them talk about reincarnation. They talk about maya most of the time. It's the small-time gurus, who talk about these things all the time. Deepak Chopra probably makes hay with it for all he's worth. In any case, I spent a great deal of time looking for how reincarnation is supposed to work, and how it is linked to karma, and I did not find a single scrap of paper (I'm talking about original sources). I realize reincarnation is mentioned in the Gita, but the mechanism is not described. All I can make of it at this point is that this is a generic observation that life is cyclic, which it is. The rest is just part of the hindu lore that goes to form a sense of dharma or something. Just speculating, but imo, dogmatic belief in karma and reincaration is just a few notches better than than a dogmatic belief in Hell and Heaven.
68 · Divya said
Karma is really just cause-and-effect. Causality is a law of life; it doesn't have to be linked to anything metaphysical. Even atheist/materialist Indian philosophy uses the term. I think you can hold on to it without it being a simplistic way to determine whether or not you will be born as a baboon.
i doubt these guys have heard of the Hollywood movie, that came out in 2002 called "The Guru". I wonder how many demerits Jimi Mistri is going to get for being the star of that movie.
68 · Divya said
Anyway, I just try and ignore this sort of stuff now. But I'm more concerned with the karma and reincarnation thing. I'm probably going to land in Sepia Mutiny hell for saying this, but I've begun to believe that these concepts too belong in the realm of mythology. They are true in a superficial, obvious sort of way but for some reason people have started taking them a bit too seriously. Belief in reincarnation is perhaps an excellent rule of thumb to elicit good behavior. And maybe that's all it's supposed to be. If you read the works of the so-called enlightened beings from the tradition, none of them talk about reincarnation. They talk about maya most of the time. It's the small-time gurus, who talk about these things all the time. Deepak Chopra probably makes hay with it for all he's worth. In any case, I spent a great deal of time looking for how reincarnation is supposed to work, and how it is linked to karma, and I did not find a single scrap of paper (I'm talking about original sources). I realize reincarnation is mentioned in the Gita, but the mechanism is not described. All I can make of it at this point is that this is a generic observation that life is cyclic, which it is. The rest is just part of the hindu lore that goes to form a sense of dharma or something. Just speculating, but imo, dogmatic belief in karma and reincaration is just a few notches better than than a dogmatic belief in Hell and Heaven.
Like any concept which has fossilized over generations in hands of few to consolidate power, stripping away all of those trappings, reincarnation becomes conceptually a breaking down of energies and reconstituting of that energy. The universe itself cart-wheeling over time collects these separated energies until it all goes to a collective whole.
However like there are many ways to skin a cat so are there many approaches to karmic and reincarnation interpretations.
The real problem is when people trying to create boundaries, man made religious laws to trap or confine concepts which are universal and infinite such as absolutes like heaven and hell.
Act: Playing your cards right
Means: A nice, long trip to my nether region
Oh get over yourself. First of all, like someone said, this movie is making fun of Westerners and their fascination with gurus. Second, gurus have routinely been exposed as corrupt and even if they're not, they (from Deepak Chopra on backwards) are known to peddle easy, watered-down, self-absorbed quasi-spiritualism with sleight-of-hand that distracts their followers from actually engaging the world on real terms. I'm constantly harping on issues of race and culture, and yet I don't find the prospect of this movie offensive. And I *did* find Borat offensive (another rant entirely). If Myers were playing an actual Indian I would be similarly offended, but he's playing a white dude which changes the nature of the portrayal entirely.
We Hindus (and South Asians in general) have always had a particular weakness for holy men. I suppose many cultures do, but I find that we're particularly easily enthralled by them. And a certain breed of white Westerner is also enthralled by them. I think anyone taking offense at the trailer needs to seriously check themselves. Or at least wait until the movie comes out.
45 · Atool said
Dude, this is satire. Lighten up a bit.
Brilliant. I only wish I could make this kind of stuff up. Many of us probably find this far more offensive than the movie itself.
I hope the Hindu Janajagruti Samiti can take time from its busy schedule of being outraged about key issues such as Gandhi's evilness, the Love Guru, Ram Setu, Obama-Krishna pictures, M. F. Husain paintings, and encouraging rape and death threats against Ramayana animators to declare what they feel about charlatans like these (to name just three examples) who are one of the real taints on any religion: misusing the very basic faith and trust people put in them in the vilest way possible.
Sean Clarke
Editor,
SpiritualResearchFoundation.org
Oh! really.. But in the midst of a sarcasmic fit, the author of this article forgot to post the above snippet, may be SM wants to save disk space/bandwidth costs ?.
The table is from a letter written by an individual to the producers of the film. Congratulations for a nice little hit job vis.a.vis Hindu Janjagruti Samiti.
HJS has a lot more nuttier stuff on their website and seems to preach hate against other faiths!
69 · NYC Akshay said
i'm hoping to reborn as a female bonobo. the real love gurus (or so thought some).
@to the idiot above
Go play your "Al Taqiyya" defence else where.
I'm not really a science type, but how do you separate cause and effect from metaphysics (the way things are)?
81 · Divya said
I'm actually not the science type, either. Metaphysics is usually defined as meta - above + physics - the physical, or in other words, something that transcends the material. Reincarnation is a metaphysical belief, because it involves principles and concepts that are not perceptible to our five senses. By detaching karma from that, you are making it simply a physical process. I throw a ball into the air, and it lands because of because of the causes and conditions of gravity, among other things. I slap a random stranger on the street, and depending on the causes and conditions, they will react in a certain way. That's what I mean by karma; just plain causality. If you choose to think this way, then we are all products of causes and effects, and since every event is both a cause and an effect, I think one valid way of looking at life is through this lens of karma.
Re 5:
Rahul, weren't they simply referring to the er, rim of hell?
Re 34:
Rather shortsighted of them, I always thought. Having the cheerleaders around could always provide Dravid & Co. with a ready-made excuse for a bad performance: "It's not really our fault; it was just hard to focus on the bouncing ball when there were such pretty bouncing cheerleaders on the field."
Yes, but whose ball?
Anyway, bouncing babes are more entertaining than bouncing babies.
NYC Akshay, laws of causality involve things (or people), and things are made up of substance, so you cannot escape metaphysics. Actually philsophers and scientists no longer talk about metaphysics, it's just plain physics now (much of matter transcends the senses as well, which your explanation overlooks). As a matter of fact, they no longer talk about causality either and rely instead on theories and predictions. If this is of any interest, you'd like Karl Popper's autobiography- Unended Quest, or any introductory book on the philosophy of science. I find them useful in understanding the indian intellectual traditions as well as they help figure out the issues that are important and help separate them from the god stuff and other nonsense that has accumulated over the years.
86 · Divya said
You are right; my definition wasn't a complete one. I should have said that metaphysics deals with unobservables, which is why the aspects of physics that involve any manner of observation can never be part of metaphysics. By this definition, karma as a concept is not metaphysical since causality can be observed. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that things are made up of substance, and must therefore involve metaphysics.
Well, we can just drop the term metaphysics even though some people still use it. I just meant to say that I don't think you can detach reincarnation from karma like you said in 82, since it is reincarnation of something (a substance to put it in concrete terms) and the same laws would apply to the substance that gets reincarnated as would apply to the substance that the laws of cause and effect operate on (remember the theory is that there's ultimately just one substance). Anyway, this is just my half-baked opinion. Maybe it's a whole other world at that level and maybe there's no reincarnation even.
Just as physical karma, there could be purely physical reincarnation, because all the same atoms, and sub-atomic particles are being used in the universe to form something else (even if it is energy) anyway. It would be interesting to tag an atom in someone and see how it "reincarnates" over the years. We could also perhaps calculate the karma attached to that single atom (or even electron?) and prove/disprove reincarnation/karma attachment.
Well, there is the canonical parlor game of estimating the probability that the breath you just took has a molecule that was in Jesus's last breath, assuming that the molecules of air have mixed sufficiently well all over the world in the past 2000 years, and that there has been extremely limited absorption or release of these molecules into some permanent repository like the sea or the earth.
There are roughly m = 10^44 molecules of air, and roughly n = 2*10^22 molecules in a breath. So, the probability that any one molecule was in Jesus' breath is p = n/m = 2*10^(-22). The probability that any one molecule was not in Jesus' breath is q = 1-p = 1-(2*10^(-22)). Hence, assuming independence as a result of all the mixing in the past 2 millenia, the probability that none of the molecules in your previous breath was in Jesus' breath, P = probability that molecule 1 was not in J's breath * probability that molecule 2 was not in J's breath *... * probability that molecule n=2*10^22 was not in J's breath = q^n = (1-2*10^(-22))^(2*10^(22)). Now, 1-x is roughly e^(-x) for small x, so P is roughly e^[(-2*10^(-22))*(2*10^(-22))] = e^(-4) which comes to about 0.018. So, there's a 1-P probability = 0.982 = 98.2% chance that you just inhaled a molecule that was in Jesus' breath. Counting all the breaths you take in a day, it's extremely likely that you inhale something from J's last exhalation every day.
That's reincarnation for you :)
Also, what is the Hindu explanation for parking karma?
Everything comes from India! 'Tis a real pity Hilbert wasn't paying attention to GGM.
Table provided in the article is absolutely true.. If you ignore it u are bound to have it...
Calling oneself a Hindu while having no real understanding of Vedanta and not possessing the requisite sense of humor: One solid bitchslap
This is like certain members of the Catholic Church getting all riled up about the alternative concepts presented in a fraking work of fiction called The Golden Compass. Threatened stupids.
93 · Rahul said
Everything comes from India! 'Tis a real pity Hilbert wasn't paying attention to GGM.
'tis a pity you don't read up on Indian philosophy. The trajectory of philosophy is very different from that of the sciences or mathematics. It is one thing to derive a conclusion through speculation, vaada, vitanda, jalpa, tarka, avyaya, and another to develop axioms, laws, and proofs.
I'm not sure why you say this. What difference does it make how you derive your conclusion, as long as it is a valid conclusion? Perhaps you mean to say that science and math cannot do for you what philosophy can? Also, even though I attempt to study Sanskrit off and on (witout making too much progress), I cannot fully respect any knowledge that cannot be communicated in modern 21st century language, even that which is ultimately experiential. The ancient sages were able to communicate their knowledge in the language of their day, and if hindus go about claiming that there is some sort of eternal knowledge to be found, then they should be able to communicate it in modern terminology.
59 · jyotsana said
It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?
The DMK/DK and "pro-social justice" "rationalist" punks ran amok a couple of years ago when actress Kushboo expressed her contempt of men who demand that women remain "chaste" etc., And when Suhasini Maniratnam came to Kushboo's defence one of the punks threatened to throw her Aryan Brahmin wazoo out of the State. Recently when Shreya attended an awards ceremony dressed in a miniskirt (in the presence of Karunanidhi no less) the self-same "social justice" punks raised a huge furore, issuing the usual threats. The DMK/DK alphabet soup are the greatest hypocrites, demanding chastity of their women, when as a rule most of them are pretty adventurous. T.R. Baalu, Karunanidhi's enforcer/Gauleiter, and now Minister of Petroleum is in trouble because of a squabble between the children of his 1st wife and the ones of his 2nd.
Do you guys read the news or do you simply read the trash dished out by Vijay Prashad, Raju Ramasamy, Balmurli Natraj etc?
Anti-Tamil prejudice flares up again. Tamils interpreted Kushboo's remarks as a slander against Tamil womanhood and engaged in democratic protest.
i do not see how these modes of argument are inconsistent with deploying 'axioms, laws, and proofs' to derive a conclusion.
for instance, i could derive a conclusion based on whatever axioms (develop a proof) -- and my opponents could engage with me, using any modes of arguments you mention. it may be that i am not understanding you right, but developing critiques of an opponent's conclusions (in even mathematical and natural sciences besides philosophy and the social sciences) follow the trajectories you mention on a conceptual level. of course, i am commenting with only a superficial knowledge of the modes of argument you mention, but they don't seem unique to indian epistemology.
A somewhat related post, based on a true story, from a (tired) mother's point-of-view here. Apparently I am not technical enough to figure out how all this T.r.a.c.k.b.a.c.k address thing works.
I was just joking around with my earlier comment, mostly because the phrase "description of the universe" means so many different things to different people. I agree with your statement if you are implying that science and philosophy operate in non-overlapping magisteria (to borrow Stephen Jay Gould's term).
90 · Rahul Flatow for Science Sunday said
There are roughly m = 10^44 molecules of air, and roughly n = 2*10^22 molecules in a breath. So, the probability that any one molecule was in Jesus' breath is p = n/m = 2*10^(-22). The probability that any one molecule was not in Jesus' breath is q = 1-p = 1-(2*10^(-22)). Hence, assuming independence as a result of all the mixing in the past 2 millenia, the probability that none of the molecules in your previous breath was in Jesus' breath, P = probability that molecule 1 was not in J's breath * probability that molecule 2 was not in J's breath *... * probability that molecule n=2*10^22 was not in J's breath = q^n = (1-2*10^(-22))^(2*10^(22)). Now, 1-x is roughly e^(-x) for small x, so P is roughly e^[(-2*10^(-22))*(2*10^(-22))] = e^(-4) which comes to about 0.018. So, there's a 1-P probability = 0.982 = 98.2% chance that you just inhaled a molecule that was in Jesus' breath. Counting all the breaths you take in a day, it's extremely likely that you inhale something from J's last exhalation every day.
That's reincarnation for you :)
Also, what is the Hindu explanation for parking karma?
Just breathing molecules is no reincarnation, given that there are assumptions that molecules never got involved in any chemical or nuclear reactions. It would be much better calculation to find the person (animal, bug, plant?) in present times with highest number of atoms from the body of Jesus at his death (but, then there is resurrection, perhaps we should switch to Ghenghis Khan). Then we see how reincarnation progresses. no? :)
Oh, a lot of us have a little Genghis in us.
97 · Divya said
That is a pretty tough standard. Given that Latin is so liberally used in Medicine.
To clarify my comment #100: I agree with your statement if you are implying that science and philosophy operate in non-overlapping magisteria (to borrow Stephen Jay Gould's term). If not, I am not sure why differing techniques of argumentation (and additionally, many of the things you mention seem to be rhetorical devices, rather than proof techniques) should imply that the conclusions are "incomparable" (to use a loose term, as a layman). Different assumptions etc. might lead to different conclusions, but that is different than proof techniques.
But doctors are the next thing to rocket scientists and are justified in having a specialized vocabulary. In the context of the indian traditions this should not be the case because, as we've heard it told, even cobblers, weavers, fishermen, lovers and losers managed to figure out the "nature of reality" as it's usually called. If such people were able to communicate their knowledge in simple language, it cannot possibly be about technical knowledge. I can concede that for *some* people the path to enlightenment may be through logic, but I cannot believe that it is necessary.
I should point out that the letter is written by somebody called Sean Clarke, which isn't what you might call an Indian name. I am a practising Hindu and I have never heard of quantifiable demerits, so the whole thing is probably an invention of somebody with the same approach to Hinduism as Wendy Doniger.
Chillaxing in America while millions of false gurus take advantage of people in Hindustan : Rebirth for eternity
Is it just me or do ya'll wanna watch this movie just a tad bit more? Like reverse advertising!
It is good to see Amardeep discover humor at some person's negative potrayal of a Hindu Guru. I recall his previous posts regarding the Dera Sacha Sauda where he was not so amused at Gurmeet Singh's supposed impersonation of the Sikh Gurus. Well, Its good to be able to criticise SOME religious bigots, even if you remain a hypocrite for not rewarding your own religion with the same enlightened criticism and lampooning.
How much is the punishment for bomb blasts?
The article below talks of many bomb blasts.
http://www.sacw.net/DC/CommunalismCollection/ArticlesArchive/3jul08gatade.htm
http://kafila.org/2008/07/03/spiritual-as-communal/
It is really difficult to believe how an organisation which supposedly ‘aims to present religious mysticism in a scientific language for the curious and to guide seekers’ and which ‘conducts weekly spiritual meetings, discourses, child guidance classes, workshops on spirituality, training in self-defense and campaigns to create awareness of righteousness’ to further these aims can double up as an organisation which can invite prosecution under ‘laws meant for unlawful and terrorist organisations’.
But any impartial observer of the activities of ‘Sanatan Sanstha’ and ‘Hindu Janjagruti Samiti’ would concur with the view that these organisations need not be allowed to spread their venomous agenda among innocent people any further. The recent bomb blasts in Maharashtra where members of these organisations have been found to be involved is another reminder about the danger which these organisations present before the communal harmony situation in our country.
It is definitely no Kafkasquean scenario where one fine morning someone experiences metamorphosis of a different kind.
It is a real world, world which talks of ’spiritual salvation’ and ‘awareness of righteousness’, a world which supposedly ‘aims to present religious mysticism in a scientific language for the curious and to guide seekers’, which ‘conducts weekly spiritual meetings, discourses, child guidance classes, workshops on spirituality etc.’ but this is just one part of the whole story.
The other part of the story is that here ‘destruction of evildoers’ is an integral part of ’spiritual practice’. And this ‘destruction’ is to be done at ‘physical and psychological level’. Interestingly to facilitate this ‘Dharm Kranti’ (religious revolution) the seekers are also provided with training in arms - rifles, trishuls, lathis and other weapons.
Enter the world of Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samiti, which recently reached national headlines for completely non-spiritual reasons, when its activists/members were arrested by Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) of the Maharashtra state for recent bomb blasts in Maharashtra. It was sheer coincidence that these terrorists belonging to these organisations could be nabbed and for the first time a possibility emerged about tracing the real culprits behind many unexplained bomb blasts in this part of Western India.
In fact the bomb blasts at theatres in Vashi ( Visnudas Bhave Auditorium, 31 st May) and Thane ( Gadkari Rangayatan Auditorium, 4 th June) which fortunately did not kill anyone, would have similarly joined many such blasts where real culprits could never be identified, if the ATS had followed the oftbeaten track of stigmatising particular community and thus restricting the scope of investigation. One crucial link which the police already had was that the play which was to be staged in these two auditoriums named “Amhi Pachpute” had evoked a strong reaction from the members of the Hindu Jangagruti Samiti (HJS) and Sanatan Sanstha (SS) earlier. The HJS and SS members had even held joint protest to register their protest about the manner in which ‘hindu mythological figures had been shown in poor light’ in the drama. Interestingly HJS members had similarly held violent protests earlier when another play by the same author ‘Yada Kadachit’ was staged.
The arrested terrorists namely Ramesh Hanumant Gadkari ( 50), Mangesh Dinkar Nikam ( 34), Vikram Bhave (26), Santosh Sitaram Angre (26)and Dr Hemant Chalke provided many crucial details to the ATS team. It was the same group which was involved in bomb explosion at Panvel Cinema Hall in February when Jodhaa Akbar was screened. They had also planted a bomb outside a mosque/dargah on the Pen Highway last Diwali. It was worth noting that these terrorists who owed their allegiance with HJS and Sanatan Sanstha did not regret their act. They reportedly told the investigators that ” We are proud of what we did to deter those who were trying to show our gods and goddesses in poor light.”
The aggressive statements by the culprits emphasised the arrival of Hindutva terrorism in India - a charge which was already in air but never conceded by anyone. Not to be left behind, Bal Thackeray, the Supremo of Shiv Sena praised these ‘brave Hindus’ but chided them for using improvised techniques and exhorted Hindus to form ’suicide squads’ to tackle the ‘menace of Islamic terrorism’.
2.
( Mumbai, June 20 Detonators, gelatin sticks, circuits, remote controls recovered from 3 locations; one detained, says ATS
The state Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) on Friday recovered a sizeable cache of gelatin sticks, detonators, circuits, remote controls and batteries from three locations — two in Pen and another in Satara. The recoveries were made on information provide by the two people arrested earlier this week in connection with the recent blasts and planting of explosives in auditoriums in Thane, Vashi and Panvel.
Blast accused guide police to hidden explosives, Express News Service, Posted online: Saturday , June 21, 2008 at 01:05:56, Updated: Saturday , June 21, 2008 at 01:05:56)
The arrest of these five Hindu terrorists belonging to Hindu Janjagruti Samiti and Sanatan Sanstha and the blowing of lid over the operations of these organisations was followed by demand from different quarters of society to ban these fanatic hindu organisations.Apart from Nationalist Congress Party, (NCP), Samajwadi Party (SP) or Jamiat Ulema e Hindi many other organisations/individuals raised their voice in unison.
Recently a Dharana was held at Azad Maidan, Bombay on 20 th June under the aegis of Maharashtra unit of Movement for Peace and Justice (MPJ) to condemn the involvement of activists of Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Jan Jagruti Samiti in recent bombings in Thane and Vashi. Organisations .like Mumbai Catholic sabha, India Center, Maharashtra manav Adhikar Sanrakshak Samiti, Yuva Sarkar, Indian Republic Party, Bahujan Mahasangh, Muslim Front, catholic Secular Front, Senior Citizen of Royal College, Awami Bharat, Vidyarthi Bharati, Hindu Vikasini etc.have supported MPJO.A massive dharana of various social-cultural and political organisations held under the aegis of Maharashtra unit of Movement for Peace and Justice (MPJ) on Azad Maidan (20 th June).
Looking at the fact that it is for the first time that organised involvement of Hindutva terrorist groups in bomb blasts in India is being clearly seen, secular organisations have underlined the need to have a fresh look at terror attacks in India and toning up central and state agencies to look for real culprits. It is also being pointed out that barring the 1993 Bombay bomb blasts which have been investigated, investigations in most of the other bomb blasts in the country have reached dead end. Security agencies following a preconceived path and focussing on one possibility has led to a situation whose end product has been demonization of Muslim community and the rise of Islamophobia in India.In fact it has become a usual pattern which has been well imbibed by the police and security agencies, where blast anywhere in the country would be claimed as the handiwork of ‘Islamic terrorist organisations’ , sketches would be prepared and innocent people would be arrested without any proper proof and would be put to endless torture. The recent Jaipur bomb blasts saw police releasing skethches of suspects at least twice without any valid explanation about the withdrawal of the earlier sketches of drawings. If there is intervention at the level of human rights activists or at any other higher level all such ‘culprits’ would be released with a warning that they do not disclose anything to anyone. And if the near and dear ones of the innocent people are not able to gather enough support from any quarter, they would be booked under various trumped up charges and sent to jail.(Politicization of terror, Tarique Anwar on 19 June 2008 - 8:06pm. www.twocircles.net)
Although the chief minister of Maharashtra has pointed out that these investigations have exposed the myth that only particular community is involved in terror attacks, and has advised to maintain balance in investigations, activists have pointed out the double standard adopted by the same police in arresting the culprits. It is being said that police has said that these accused can’t be arrested under the Maharashtra Control of Organised Crime Act (MCOCA) because these acts of terror were not done by “an organised terrorist group.” It is true that any democracy loving person would never support such a law which itself is a grave attack on human rights, but the moot question arises is that how can police adopt ‘double standard” that the secular organisations are completely against. They have rightly raised the question, if the arrested terrorists would have been Muslim, whether police would have given similar explanation.“How can one differentiate between the Hindutva terrorism and the so called Islamic terrorism? And more importantly, does terrorism has any religion?”
3.
A writeup in Indian Express (June 23, 2008) titled ‘Quietly, hardline Hindu Outfits build a network across Maharashtra, Goa’ explains the working of these organisations which ‘work like wheels within wheels’ and mobilise Hindus on ‘a cocktail of Ramrajya, Hindu Dharma, and “dharamkranti ‘ religious revolution”. A notable feature of HJS and SS is while there is no formal membership and funding is through donations, satsangs/religious gatherings are an important feature of mobilisation of people. Apart from many centres in different parts of India, they have centres in New Jersey, Brisbane, Melbourne, Dubai and many other places. It also provides details of the newly launched outfit “Dharamshakti Sena” pictures of whose inaugural rally show young men dressed in military fatigues. The “Sena” was established in 16 districts of Maharashtra towns and cities on Gudi :Padwa day this April.
Dharamshakti Sena chief Vinay Panvalkar has travelled extensively across Maharashtra after establishment of the outfit and is reported to have delivered inflammatory speeches. In a meeting held in Pune he is quoted as saying “Hindus are cornered from all sides, but there is no retaliation from them.” In another meeting in Thane he says “The war in future will be a Dharamyudh and Dharamshakti Sena will be the guiding force”.
As has been already reported the arrested Hindu terrorists have claimed that they were working on their own initiative, and the leadership of Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samiti has also categorically denied any role in there acts. Interestingly, in one of their own publications they have also condemned the act albeit sympathised with their grievances.But any close watcher of the whole situation knows that it would not be possible for the leadership of Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samiti to hide behind formal explanations for long.
Apart from the trysts of the terrorists with bombs and violence police is rather baffled with the recovery of explosives from different parts of Maharashtra at the behest of the arrested activists :
“According to ATS officials, while 19 gelatin sticks, two circuits with remote controls, a circuit without a remote and 20 detonators were found buried in the ground at a spot in Varsai village near Pen, three circuits with remote controls, a circuit without a remote, 12 batteries, a timer and a voltmeter were recovered from the bed of a stream in Pen. Another recovery of similar objects was made from a location in Satara.
“The recoveries in Pen were made on details obtained during the interrogation of Vikram Bhave (26), while that in Satara was based on information provided by Mangesh Nikam (34),” said Additional Commissioner of Police, ATS, Parambeer Singh.
- Express News Service, Posted online: Saturday , June 21, 2008
A senior officer of the Anti Terrorism Squad has told the media that the meticulous planning which has gone into organising the bomb blasts shows that it cannot be initiative of few persons only and they have all the options yet open before them. According to him various members of these organisations are being questioned. If there role is found in the planning or the execution of these incidents, ATS would write to the central government and seek that they be banned.
Apart from interrogation of different associates of these Hindu terrorists the ATS also needs to take a close look at the plethora of literature published by Sanatan Sanstha and Hindu Janjagruti Samiti and different issues of their regular newspaper and magazines and other material. A close look at the functioning of the organisations and the methods of their indoctrination which place the “Guru” (teacher) at a supreme level, makes it clear that it would not be difficult for the ATS to nab the people who ‘remote control’ the activities of their gullible followers.
It need be told that apart from the ‘magnum opus’ of the founder of SS and HJS, Jayant Athavale which is called “Science of Spirituality’ - which is book of 21 volumes - and other texts about ‘Divine Kingdom’, ‘Arts for God Realisation’ and ‘Spiritual Experiences of Seekers’ etc. a very important text in the training of the seekers is Texts on Defence where seekers of divine kingdom are also imparted training with air rifles ( Vol 3 H - Self Defence Training, Chapter 6, Page 108-109)
It would be opportune to discuss a portion from this text which trains the seeker in ‘Firing’ . In 7 a. it trains the seeker in standing stance (kada pavitra) [shooting in the standing posture] in section 7 b. it discusses Sitting Stance (baitha pavitra) [shooting in the sitting stance]. It also shows the photograph of Vinay Panvalkar wearing a hat showing the different positions.
7 B. Sitting Stance (baitha pavitra) [shooting in the sitting stance]
1. Load the rifle according to steps ‘A to F’ of point 6. Loading the rifle.’ Then proceed as given below.
2. Ready to fire - one ( fire ke liye sajja -ek) :
Once this command is given touch the right knee to the ground. Bending the toes of the right foot support the foot on its ball. At that time the left knee should be bent and kept in front of the right one. ….
Another writeup in ‘Goan Observer’ also displays seven photographs of Vinay Panvalkar which have appeared in another of Sanatan Sanstha’s publication ['Swasaunrakshan Prashikshan' (Self Defence Training)] While four photographs show training by rifle, two photographs show how to attack someone with a long Trishul and the last one is the usual fight with hands. The same writeup makes an interesting point vis-a-vis HJS/SS and RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal.
According to the writeup
..It would appear that these hardline organisations have come up because of the disillusion meant amongst hardcore fanatic Hindus that the BJP and the RSS have compromised their core values for political gains. In fact though the Sansthan boasted of over two lakh members when it started in 1999, many members were expelled because they were proved to be ‘corrupt’. Unlike the RSS, VHP and Bajrang Dal activists the activists of the Sanstha maintain a very low profile which makes it difficult to combat their mischief .
The same page carries a photograph of Jayant Athavale, founder of HJS, and SS, in military fatigue exhorting people to ‘Become Hindu Naxalites to combat the Naxalites who are the biggest enemies of Dharamrajya’.
Jayant Athavale’s magnum opus ‘Science of Spirituality’ in its chapter ‘Spiritual Practice of Protecting Seekers and Destroying Evildoers’ ( Vol I, E, Page 64-65) underlines the importance of Guru to undertake spiritual practice’. It clearly absolves the seeker from any act of destroying evildoers.
It says
B 2. One chanting continuously : The action of destroying evildoers becomes a non-action only if done along with chanting the Lord’s name, as then it becomes a mere act (Kriya). Then the Law of Karma (Action) does not apply.
B 3. One who is permitted by saints or Gurus to undertake this spiritual practice: Destroy evildoers if you have been advised by saints or Gurus to do so. Then these acts are not registered in your name.
According to the book
Timetable of the spiritual practice
a. Year 1997-1999 A.D. ( 3 Years) : Impressing upon the mind that ‘destruction of evildoers’ is a part of the spiritual nature.
b. Year 2000-2006 A.D. ( 7 years) : Actual destruction of evildoers at physical, psychological and spiritual levels.
c. Year 2007-2022 A.D. ( 16 Years ) : Generating the potential to run the kingdom of the Absolute truth
d. Year 2023 - 2025 A.D. ( 3 Years) : Commencement of the regime of Absolute Truth ( divine kingdom)
In Vol 4 of the book ‘Texts about the Divine Kingdom’ which focusses itself on Social Upliftment, National Security it measures someone’s ’spiritual progress’ when he is compelled to ‘kill someone.’ (Page 48-49)
6 C 4. Test of Spiritual Progress : One will perceive how much spiritual progress one has made only when he is compelled to kill someon. It is easy to make statements like ‘everything is Brahman’ (God)’ When actually performing the act of killing, if the mind remains steady and does not waver at all like Arjun’s did, only then can one say that one has realised Brahman.
It also presents its ideas about who would ‘bring about a revolution’
6 D. Only warrior seekers (Kshatravir) can bring about a revolution.
6 D 1. Warrior seekers who have an unparalleled combination of a selfless attitude, unity, intense motivation to undertake the mission and faith in it The Lord. It is not an easy task to oust evil politicians. To achieve this, one will have to combat their ruffian party workers, the police force and the army under their command. Therefore, this is certainly not the work of selfish politicians. The people have experienced in the last 54 years after independence that despite granting opportunity to various parties to assume power, replacement of one politician by another does not bring about any change in society.
Apart from valorising violence through its literature and actions, the organisations have achieved notoriety for abusing other religions and their prophets. e.g In one of its issues of ‘Sanatan Prabhat’ ( 9 th Dec 2005) - a newspaper brought out by it from many districts in Maharashtra and Goa, it ‘exposes the real nature of Bible’ by calling it a ‘manual for teaching immorality’ which discusses in detail ‘ the rape of a sister by a brother’. It is part of its usual practice to show a Pastor with horns whose sole agenda is proselytisation. Its humiliation of Islam and Prophet Muhammad nearly created a riot like situationi in Miraj ( First week of November 2005)
4.
It is for everyone to see that organisations like Hindu Janjagruti Samiti, Sanatan Sanstha and Dharamshakti Sena and their open espousal of violence against ‘evildoers’ under the garb of ’spiritual practice’ cannot be allowed to continue any further.
Whatever might be the claims of the likes of Gadkari, Nikam, Angre and others - the accused in the bomb blasts - that the whole operation was their own initiative, it is clear to any layperson that their organisations can never escape the blame for preparing the conditions so that ’seekers’ unleash violence against religious minorities for the espousal of spirituality. A cursory glance at the writings and speeches of the leaders of SS, HJS makes it clear that in a democratic setup they need to pay for their hatefilled speeches and for promoting division of society on communal lines. For all its talk of spirituality it is becoming extremely clear that the likes of Jayant Athavale are essentially zealots for the formation of Hindu Rashtra in secular India. In one of his exhortations (Sanatan Prabhat, 16 th August 2005) talks of ‘ Inevitability of the building of Hindu Rashtra to avoid braking of India at the hands of the irreligious’. It was only last year that HJS had organised a photo exhibition in different parts of Goa and Maharashtra to present their version of the ‘attaks on Hindus in Kashmir and Bangladesh’ This particular exhibition evoked a strong reaction from wide cross-section of people with its one-sided pictorisation of events. The said exhibition had been prepared by Frank Gautier, a saffron sympathiser from Europe
It is high tmie that measures are taken at the polity level so that the likes of Jayant Athavaale and Vinay Panwalkar and all their comrades are restrained from taking up any cause which could ‘provide fresh impetus to forces of exclusion and hope.’
It is possible that the government dithers over taking up any action against leaders of HJS , SS or for that matter Dharamshakti Sena then one will have to get ready for a protracted struggle against these forces. People conversant with law or its different statues can tell you what sort of clauses from Indian Penal Code would apply in case of the hatefilled propaganda by them. If convicted they will have to spend at least three years in any Indian jail.
Question remains who will gather enough courage to ‘bell the cat’?