Absolutely hilarious; I had to stop myself from laughing long enough to type this...oops here is comes again!

Update:
Act: Making fun of the punishment on a blog or its comment section
Demerit: 0.5 unit
Means: That qrtr of hell, where there's no icecream

--

:) Can u believe it that the letter was supposedly written by a "Sean Clarke" a possible MBA graduate from Australia?

You wanna bet such jokers may be able to get this movie banned in India? Or for that matter, cheerleading at IPL games.

I am glad that Indian Americans have finally assimilated, and imbibed the best of America.

I must admit, I am rather curious about this “nether region” idea.

Do I have to be a cunning linguist to understand what going to the nether region means?

Janjagruti Samiti seems to be secretly Catholic and the table is just his version of The Divine Comedy.

Do I have to be a cunning linguist to understand what going to the nether region means?

Demerits: 69 units

I'm with you on that.

Could be a slick viral marketing campaign.

Hasn't Rajan "saffron balls" Zed been feeling guru-envy of Mike Myers, and didn't he originally stoke the flames on this?

Someone needs to let others in on the joke that is "The Love Guru". It makes fun of westerners who go to India, get "enlightened", pick-up a phenomenal accent and a measured speech pattern, some chants, clothes and yoga moves and then return *to make loads of money off of gullible westerners and bed the ladies who dig the accent and the whole enlightened disguise.

*it's all in the marketing, stoopid*

Yeah, it's too bad that elephants are involved. Now that is an outrage!
Demerit: a million
Means: 1000 years in the 3rd region (swimming in animal feces).

A friend of mine in college had a huge black Lucite bong that he called "The Obsidian Lord of the Nether Regions"... and that pretty much exhausts my knowledge on this topic...

Hasn't Rajan "saffron balls" Zed been feeling guru-envy of Mike Myers, and didn't he originally stoke the flames on this?

Yes, and I have to say I'm not impressed. Zed emerged quickly last year after the incident where he was to do a prayer in the Senate, only to be stifled by right-wing loonies. I do respect his accomplishment and his bravery there, though I don't know much about him -- where he stands on other issues. Still, I think this film is just going to be one to skip, not protest.

Here, I think Deepak Chopra has actually got the situation exactly right:

But Dr Chopra, who is making waves with two bestsellers, The Buddha (a novel) and The Third Jesus in which he argues that Jesus Christ is not the monopoly of Christian churches, would not have wanted Paramount to show the film to Zed and like-minded protesters.

"Mike was being conciliatory," says Dr Chopra, speaking in his austere office at the Chopra Spa in New York. "He said he will meet them, show them the movie, etc. I called Mike and said to him 'If you think you are going to placate them, you are going to anger them even more.' I would not placate them."

Dr Chopra, who is being called the anti-Christ and a devil by fundamentalist Christians for claiming that Christ never intended to start a religion, adds: "I would make fun of them (the Hindu groups). I would say your faith is so weak that a comedy can offend you. I would then tell them, Your faith is not faith; it's a cover up for insecurity. Just because you are vegetarian and you dress like Hindus it doesn't mean you have strong faith."

"The Obsidian Lord of the Nether Regions"..

(Forgive me, if you're of the fairer sex.)

Here, I think Deepak Chopra has actually got the situation exactly right:

Yep, Oprah Chopra has been quite sane on this. Of course, he's nothing if not a good businessman who knows his market. The fact that he has a cameo in the movie and is also planning to release a book related to the movie ("Why is God laughing?) has nothing to do with his support, I'm sure.

(Forgive me, if you're of the fairer sex.)

Not to worry, Dravidians are not fair, not even veatish.

Is this an America based organization or India based? As in India we don't write letters we burn effigies :)

Yep, Oprah Chopra has been quite sane on this. Of course, he's nothing if not a good businessman who knows his market. blockquote> I'm starting to respect him now.

Not to worry, Dravidians are not fair, not even veatish.

Ask me how I know ; )

(Forgive me, if you're of the fairer sex.)

Not to worry, Dravidians are not fair, not even veatish.

99 demerits!!!

@%#$$& argh! what's with that?!

Take Two: bess punstar to Rahuligan

Yep, Oprah Chopra has been quite sane on this. Of course, he's nothing if not a good businessman who knows his market.

Not to worry, Dravidians are not fair, not even veatish.

I've lost my motivation. And now Dravidian won't speak to me...

Most branches of Hinduism actually acknowledge that the sheer complexity/tangled mass of causes and effects make it too difficult to determine specific outcomes based on single actions, especially those that involve being reborn in different places/states. This chart, besides violating that belief with its ridiculous simplicity, is also extremely hilarious!

I think the way in which I watch this film will be decided once I find out in whose nether regions I may have to spend time.

Ah, someone finally linked to the Official Website of the Troll Sena. I've avoided doing so myself - even though they are the source of numerous death/rape threats towards yours truly - because they thrive on attention.

I also have newfound respect for Chopra, after reading reading Amardeep's comment #13.

Nina -- I did link to them earlier (they were also "offended" by the Clinton-Obama/Radha-Krishna image I blogged about a few weeks ago), but I didn't name them then. There's always a question in my mind with groups like this of whether it's better to just ignore them...

I'm sorry to hear about the threats, and even more disgusted by them now than I already was.

In happier news, good luck with SStB at Tribeca Film Festival this week and next!

But Dr Chopra, who is making waves with two bestsellers, The Buddha (a novel) and The Third Jesus in which he argues that Jesus Christ is not the monopoly of Christian churches..."

I would say your faith is so weak that a comedy can offend you. I would then tell them, Your faith is not faith; it's a cover up for insecurity.

What's the penalty for seeing it just to witness the degree/nature of the inevitable peaceful, amicable, conciliatory resolution toward Hinduism/"Eastern" spirituality?

Does that count as special investigation, or is no degree of conciliatory resolution possible to make up for the egregiousness of the trailer, thus negating any virtuous curiosity about the last 5-10 minutes of the film?

Actually saw the new trailer for it last night before Ironman. It looked funnier than I thought it would be and probably had any right to be, however the comedy and structure of the movie is the same as Austin Powers.

Mike Myers is definitely no Peter Sellers.

What's more interesting to discuss is how if this had been another religion or culture being 'mocked', the film might not have even gotten made.

While I like the smorgasbord style of Hinduism and easy going style of our culture, would like it to have more political power like other minorities in the US.

Oh Amardeep, Rahul...this must have reaallly made your day. You must be sooo happy. Elated, even. I mean, how often does this happen?

Happy Friday...

M. Nam

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Media__Entertainment_/Entertainment/Hindus_in_US_want_screening_of_The_Love_Guru_blocked/articleshow/3000933.cms

Some peeps seem to be offended at this movie.

Ask me how I know ; )

Indeed, how do you know, Bess?

27 · MoorNam said

Oh Amardeep, Rahul...this must have reaallly made your day. You must be sooo happy. Elated, even. I mean, how often does this happen?

I wasn't because the Shiv Seniacs and their ilk protesting Indian culture by banning cheerleaders had me bouncing already (yes, I have a delicate temperament), but I am indeed touched to hear that you are always thinking about my happiness.

You love me, you really love me!

Happy Friday to you too, Moornam!

Indeed, how do you know, Bess?

22 · Nina P said

I also have newfound respect for Chopra, after reading reading Amardeep's comment #13.

he's certainly capable of a lucid thought or two (given he runs a lucrative culture-pimping business)but I have nothing but contempt for someone who took knowledge that should be open-source and tried to front like it could be proprietary. It's odd that Mike Meyers is buddy-buddy with Chopra and doesn't see how you could easily make a 'Guru' movie that mocked Chopra mercilessly for being the soulless charlatan that he really is.

I was not alive in '63, just so ya' know.

How do you know? You were probably the tree that went into the making of the 1963 edition of Situation Ethics that you later picked up, etc.

Or maybe, you were an elephant.

Why is a Hindu group threatening with regions of hell, anyway? I thought Hindus just get reinvented, I mean, reincarnated. Am I giving my 5-year old wrong information? She is obsessed with the concept of death and I quickly realized a very 'vet'ted atheist's understanding of death is not an appropriate answer for a starry-eyed 5-year old. So I told her that her Hindu great grandmother believes she will be born again, perhaps, as her favorite breed of dog or her favorite Disney princess, while her very Christian grandmother on the other side believes we will all have a happy family reunion in heaven (glossing over the fact that mommy will probably not be invited to that family reunion). For now, these answers seem to have helped--she has made her own version of afterlife that involves both reincarnation and an ever-ever happy land called heaven. (Now I know eactly why religions were invented).

Question: do I need to go back to Hinduism 101? I hate to mislead my child on the specifics of the big, fat lie I tell to reassure her every night.

Rahul,
>> I wasn't because the Shiv Seniacs and their ilk protesting

It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?

1. The Bengal leftists are also protesting against the cheerleaders. Now, are they Shiv Sainik's "ilk"?

2. Rahul Dravid and other cricketters are against the cheerleaders.

3. Maharashtra government, which started the ban, is a Congress Government and ShivSena/BJP is in the opposition there.

Anyone want to bet how soon DMK will get on the bandwagon?

M. Nam

Or maybe, you were an elephant.

Question: do I need to go back to Hinduism 101? I hate to mislead my child on the specifics of the big, fat lie I tell to reassure her every night.

It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?

What's your point? That they are not the only crazies and cultural nazis in town? Well, at least I hope you won't beat me up or burn up my comments.

Thanks for crowning me, though.

Anyways, I don't want to hog the attention from the Sex Swami Yoni Yogi Love Guru, so if you feel strongly about my happiness, Moornam, I fervently urge you to write a letter to the authorities.

36 · Rahul said

It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?

What's your point? That they are not the only crazies and cultural nazis in town? Well, at least I hope you won't beat me up or burn up my comments.

Thanks for crowning me, though.

I just don't understand why MFH keeps doing these scandalous hindu painting(s) when there are so many other religions(or his own) where his artistic freedom is greatly appreciated :)

As a kid in India, we Catlicks were always going to Catechism classes . The rest of class attending something mysterious called "Moral Science". We were taught that once could go to heaven, or hell , or limbo. Now I know where the rest are headed :-)

We were taught that once could go to heaven, or hell , or limbo. Now I know where the rest are headed :-)

I hate to mislead my child on the specifics of the big, fat lie I tell to reassure her every night.

Sounds like "Moksha Patamu", the Jain game stolen by Milton Bradley and turned into Snakes & Ladders that teaches about the consequences of action

(Forgive me, if you're of the fairer sex.)

Male... and very wheatish, actually. Having a white mother will do that for you. :)

Mike was being conciliatory," says Dr Chopra, speaking in his austere office at the Chopra Spa in New York. I would not placate them.

Translation: To feed white expectations is to F with your cash cow, never do anything to compromise that.

I would say your faith is so weak that a comedy can offend you

This of course is the ultimate in stupidity and misses the entire point. It's not that a comedy would offend you, it's the fact that mainstream white america has NOTHING ELSE to provide a counterbalance to illustrate it AS a comedy. Now of course, michael myers screams comedy, but remember, you and I and most people reading this KNOW it's a caricature! mainstream white america doesn't (necessarily, they'd be hard pressed to pick out what elements are caricature and what aren't) but compare Austin Powers, an obvious caricature, I'd say most of mainstream america knows that the average brit doesn't act that way (plus there's time travel and other crazy things going on in that movie) What's offensive is not the movie itself, but the fact that people don't have anything else to tell them explicitly... it's a complete, and utter satire.

As for Deepak Chopra not placating them, he doesn't need to, he's too busy placating his white masses and concentrating on the only color that really matters to him: green.

Malathi, why can't you tell your little girl what you believe? She's heard everyone else's take on the matter why not yours.

Because there is nothing reassuring about my stark, unpadded thoughts on the concept of death. (I agree with Dilip D'Souza: Death ends fun.) I don't mean to shield her from it forever--it is just that she is not ready to handle it just yet. Like you said in the other comment: she has come up with her own comforting idea of what happens to one after death. And I am fine with that for now.

As an independent adult, I want to stick as close as possible to what I believe is the reality of the world, but as a mother having to answer difficult questions from a scared child, I am willing to compromise on my principles for some indefinite time. When Jessica next door is happily reassured with a Barbie version of heaven, I don't want my child's innocence to end prematuredly.

As a Hindu, this movie is offensive and deeply hurtful. Why is it that when someone punches you in the face, he goes to jail, but when someone hurts you emotionally and spiritually in a way that is more hurtful and lasting, it's ok and even allowed to be profitable?

Why is a Hindu group threatening with regions of hell, anyway? I thought Hindus just get reinvented, I mean, reincarnated. Am I giving my 5-year old wrong information?

I'm confused myself. I read the whole thing about going to hell and seriously the concept of Heaven and Hell is fairly newly introducted into Hinduism. I mean isn't heaven and hell a state of your karmas from the generic brand of Hinduism I was raised on?

You gained good karma so you come back as a better person and not as a flea or something. So seriously forget your 5 year old this adult is totally confused how these maniacs came up with a very western cursing kind of burning hell. I mean I don't envision Shiva waiting at the gates with a searing hot Trishul waiting to brand my ass with it.

I just find the mainstream mention and importance of heaven and hell in this brand of Hinduism plain weird. I mean this is the whole reason why I'm Hindu and not Muslim or Christian. If I fuck up I come back in my own personal hell not someone else's hell or idea of it. So what's this all about.

Male... and very wheatish, actually. Having a white mother will do that for you. :)

I don't mean to shield her from it forever--it is just that she is not ready to handle it just yet. Like you said in the other comment: she has come up with her own comforting idea of what happens to one after death. And I am fine with that for now.

As an independent adult, I want to stick as close as possible to what I believe is the reality of the world, but as a mother having to answer difficult questions from a scared child, I am willing to compromise on my principles for some indefinite time.

46 · Janeofalltrades said

Why is a Hindu group threatening with regions of hell, anyway? I thought Hindus just get reinvented, I mean, reincarnated. Am I giving my 5-year old wrong information?

Yeah there are references to hell and different kind of punishments administered by

Yama

Yama is hell. its a NY based restaurant perennially ranked, by the california rollers, among the top sushi bars. they toss 1/2 foot slabs of fish on rice that gives one the feeling of being french kissed by a german shephard. its cultural appropriation at its worst. i don't care about michael myers or dropping your baby on its head, but this has to stop.

...one recent question was why do we have god? I gave my answer and told my little one that my answer is different from the one she'd get from her grandparents, aunts, uncles and school. Not sure if that killed the innocence.

By the way, my question to you in comment # 33 was only tongue-in-cheek (stimulated by your funny and priceless comment # 11). I regretted not putting a smiley-face emoticon but by now I figure you took it in the light-hearted manner it was meant to be taken.

Also, thanks to JOAT for #46.

There is a heaven & hell concept in both Hinduism and some forms of Buddhism. The deviation from the Abrahamic religions is that both heaven & hell are not eternal fates in the Indic religions.

I am completely against any restrictions on freedom of speach, but I think the progressive crowd gets unhinged a bit too easily when Hindus voice their grievances peacefully. It's not the same situation as Christianity in the West where even the liberals (as represented by Labour and Democrats) continuously reaffirm their (Judeo-)Christianity. The only representations of Hinduism in Western popular media are negative and in India, excepting the BJP interregnum, secularism has been perverted to mean that only the majority community can be critiqued

The deviation from the Abrahamic religions is that both heaven & hell are not eternal fates in the Indic religions.

This is a pretty good guide to heaven and hell

Oh Gods, that made me laugh! Nether regions...but I do have a dirty mind :p

51 · louiecypher said

There is a heaven & hell concept in both Hinduism and some forms of Buddhism. The deviation from the Abrahamic religions is that both heaven & hell are not eternal fates in the Indic religions.

This is true. Most modern Hindus don't have much exposure to such beliefs, but they were a part of more mainstream forms of Hinduism for a good amount of time, and a close reading of certain texts that are still somewhat mainstream reveals their presence. For example, depending on my karma, I could be reborn as a Deva, maybe even the next Indra (since these Devas have been thought, from a few hundred years BC, to be mortal beings and within Samsara), or in a hell where I'm tortured. Once my related karma is extinguished, I could be born elsewhere and in another form. Also note that many Hindu stories speak of the "3 worlds", which implies a reference to this belief as well.

One of the earliest gripes of certain Hindu reformists at about 300 BC, and even the Buddha a few hundred before them, was that many people of the day wanted to get into Brahma's heaven and chill over there (it was supposedly full of pleasures and only happiness), which these philosophers saw as only a temporary respite from suffering, a distraction from the goal of complete salvation, and a way to generate neg. karma based on your attachments to the pleasures you would enjoy in those realms.

Read some of the comments on the website that this table comes from. Full of rabid right wing nut jobs. they need to be kicked in the nether regions.

Amardeep, are you trying to get me in trouble? The last time I had anything to do with my nether regions while watching a love gurur, I almost went to the jailhouse from the playhouse.

Are the Nether Regions the Nertherlands ? Please don't throw me into the briar patch...

49 · Manju said

Yama is hell.

Well if that's your criteria, Blue Ribbon might be your heaven.

34 · MoorNam said

Rahul,
>> I wasn't because the Shiv Seniacs and their ilk protesting

It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?

1. The Bengal leftists are also protesting against the cheerleaders. Now, are they Shiv Sainik's "ilk"?

2. Rahul Dravid and other cricketters are against the cheerleaders.

3. Maharashtra government, which started the ban, is a Congress Government and ShivSena/BJP is in the opposition there.

Anyone want to bet how soon DMK will get on the bandwagon?

M. Nam

The DMK/DK and "pro-social justice" "rationalist" punks ran amok a couple of years ago when actress Kushboo expressed her contempt of men who demand that women remain "chaste" etc., And when Suhasini Maniratnam came to Kushboo's defence one of the punks threatened to throw her Aryan Brahmin wazoo out of the State. Recently when Shreya attended an awards ceremony dressed in a miniskirt (in the presence of Karunanidhi no less) the self-same "social justice" punks raised a huge furore, issuing the usual threats. The DMK/DK alphabet soup are the greatest hypocrites, demanding chastity of their women, when as a rule most of them are pretty adventurous. T.R. Baalu, Karunanidhi's enforcer/Gauleiter, and now Minister of Petroleum is in trouble because of a squabble between the children of his 1st wife and the ones of his 2nd.

Do you guys read the news or do you simply read the trash dished out by Vijay Prashad, Raju Ramasamy, Balmurli Natraj etc?

59 · jyotsana said

Do you guys read the news or do you simply read the trash dished out by Vijay Prashad, Raju Ramasamy, Balmurli Natraj etc?

Don't know why we are discussing these other crazies (does it minimize this in some way?), but I'd mentioned the Tamil ruckus over cheerleaders this morning on that thread.

49 · Manju said

Yama is hell. its a NY based restaurant perennially ranked, by the california rollers, among the top sushi bars. they toss 1/2 foot slabs of fish on rice that gives one the feeling of being french kissed by a german shephard. its cultural appropriation at its worst. i don't care about michael myers or dropping your baby on its head, but this has to stop.

Ha Ha Ha

Atool@45

As a Hindu, this movie is offensive and deeply hurtful. Why is it that when someone punches you in the face, he goes to jail, but when someone hurts you emotionally and spiritually in a way that is more hurtful and lasting, it's ok and even allowed to be profitable?

Movies are for fun. Everybody is equal before the eyes of the movies. If Borat, Harold Kumar escapes from Guatanamo bay and similar movies are acceptable then why not Love Guru ? But an interesting point I am mulling over is if Justin tearing apart Janets' blouse to expose her breasts is indecent then why is Love Guru and movies of similar kind not ?
And once again the controvery of freedom of speech and expression ?

Well glad about the mirth and merrymaking all 'round. Hope you all had a good time.
If it had been "The Maulana", I am sure would things would've been different.
You see, it is easy to ridicule a random table in an obscure website.Takes no courage at all.
No repercussions,smart comments and witty repartee to flout.
Get some perspective.Please stop punching soft targets.

I, for one, will definitely be taking my brown azz to see this movie...

to those "offended" desis I say:

"get laid"

I'm glad Hindus put a time limit on Hell, I hate that "your going to burn in Hell forever" Christian thing.

I've always wondered how people can be so detailed in descriptions of places which are not on any map, have no travel destinations in the known Universe, and -- to be brutally honest -- no one ever came back from with snapshots and/or video footage to tell us what it was like.

I've heard about this "Hell" all my life and so far nobody has produced so much as a singed eyebrow from it.

64 · stella said

I'm glad Hindus put a time limit on Hell, I hate that "your going to burn in Hell forever" Christian thing.

When your unit of reckoning i.e., 1 Brahma life = 311 trillion years = 311,000,000,000,000 years - and not a mere 6,000 years, you tend to develope some sense of proportion about the idea of "eternity". No one deserves punishment that lasts that long?

You see, it is easy to ridicule a random table in an obscure website.Takes no courage at all.

these same people are the ones who have despicably threatened others with death and rape, so maybe they want to make their favorite hinduism just like that religion they secretly admire.

i think people like you are just jealous of the "respect" that you think radical muslims get for their faith. well, those who want to go that route shouldn't at least pretend that they are morally better or inherenly superior in some way.

No repercussions,smart comments and witty repartee to flout.

not clear what this means.

Of course hindus have a hell and heaven. In fact there are several lokas (realms), serpent loka, ocean loka, many different sorts of celestial lokas, and quite a few hellish ones. So the guys who wrote the article probably aren't making this up. What they're being foolish about is taking it all so seriously. Just because ancient Indians were creative storytellers there's no need for twenty-first century twerps to be getting in a twist over it.

Anyway, I just try and ignore this sort of stuff now. But I'm more concerned with the karma and reincarnation thing. I'm probably going to land in Sepia Mutiny hell for saying this, but I've begun to believe that these concepts too belong in the realm of mythology. They are true in a superficial, obvious sort of way but for some reason people have started taking them a bit too seriously. Belief in reincarnation is perhaps an excellent rule of thumb to elicit good behavior. And maybe that's all it's supposed to be. If you read the works of the so-called enlightened beings from the tradition, none of them talk about reincarnation. They talk about maya most of the time. It's the small-time gurus, who talk about these things all the time. Deepak Chopra probably makes hay with it for all he's worth. In any case, I spent a great deal of time looking for how reincarnation is supposed to work, and how it is linked to karma, and I did not find a single scrap of paper (I'm talking about original sources). I realize reincarnation is mentioned in the Gita, but the mechanism is not described. All I can make of it at this point is that this is a generic observation that life is cyclic, which it is. The rest is just part of the hindu lore that goes to form a sense of dharma or something. Just speculating, but imo, dogmatic belief in karma and reincaration is just a few notches better than than a dogmatic belief in Hell and Heaven.

68 · Divya said

But I'm more concerned with the karma and reincarnation thing. I'm probably going to land in Sepia Mutiny hell for saying this, but I've begun to believe that these concepts too belong in the realm of mythology. They are true in a superficial, obvious sort of way but for some reason people have started taking them a bit too seriously.

Karma is really just cause-and-effect. Causality is a law of life; it doesn't have to be linked to anything metaphysical. Even atheist/materialist Indian philosophy uses the term. I think you can hold on to it without it being a simplistic way to determine whether or not you will be born as a baboon.

i doubt these guys have heard of the Hollywood movie, that came out in 2002 called "The Guru". I wonder how many demerits Jimi Mistri is going to get for being the star of that movie.

68 · Divya said

Of course hindus have a hell and heaven. In fact there are several lokas (realms), serpent loka, ocean loka, many different sorts of celestial lokas, and quite a few hellish ones. So the guys who wrote the article probably aren't making this up. What they're being foolish about is taking it all so seriously. Just because ancient Indians were creative storytellers there's no need for twenty-first century twerps to be getting in a twist over it.

Anyway, I just try and ignore this sort of stuff now. But I'm more concerned with the karma and reincarnation thing. I'm probably going to land in Sepia Mutiny hell for saying this, but I've begun to believe that these concepts too belong in the realm of mythology. They are true in a superficial, obvious sort of way but for some reason people have started taking them a bit too seriously. Belief in reincarnation is perhaps an excellent rule of thumb to elicit good behavior. And maybe that's all it's supposed to be. If you read the works of the so-called enlightened beings from the tradition, none of them talk about reincarnation. They talk about maya most of the time. It's the small-time gurus, who talk about these things all the time. Deepak Chopra probably makes hay with it for all he's worth. In any case, I spent a great deal of time looking for how reincarnation is supposed to work, and how it is linked to karma, and I did not find a single scrap of paper (I'm talking about original sources). I realize reincarnation is mentioned in the Gita, but the mechanism is not described. All I can make of it at this point is that this is a generic observation that life is cyclic, which it is. The rest is just part of the hindu lore that goes to form a sense of dharma or something. Just speculating, but imo, dogmatic belief in karma and reincaration is just a few notches better than than a dogmatic belief in Hell and Heaven.

Like any concept which has fossilized over generations in hands of few to consolidate power, stripping away all of those trappings, reincarnation becomes conceptually a breaking down of energies and reconstituting of that energy. The universe itself cart-wheeling over time collects these separated energies until it all goes to a collective whole.

However like there are many ways to skin a cat so are there many approaches to karmic and reincarnation interpretations.

The real problem is when people trying to create boundaries, man made religious laws to trap or confine concepts which are universal and infinite such as absolutes like heaven and hell.

Act: Playing your cards right

Means: A nice, long trip to my nether region

As a Hindu, this movie is offensive and deeply hurtful. Why is it that when someone punches you in the face, he goes to jail, but when someone hurts you emotionally and spiritually in a way that is more hurtful and lasting, it's ok and even allowed to be profitable?

Oh get over yourself. First of all, like someone said, this movie is making fun of Westerners and their fascination with gurus. Second, gurus have routinely been exposed as corrupt and even if they're not, they (from Deepak Chopra on backwards) are known to peddle easy, watered-down, self-absorbed quasi-spiritualism with sleight-of-hand that distracts their followers from actually engaging the world on real terms. I'm constantly harping on issues of race and culture, and yet I don't find the prospect of this movie offensive. And I *did* find Borat offensive (another rant entirely). If Myers were playing an actual Indian I would be similarly offended, but he's playing a white dude which changes the nature of the portrayal entirely.

We Hindus (and South Asians in general) have always had a particular weakness for holy men. I suppose many cultures do, but I find that we're particularly easily enthralled by them. And a certain breed of white Westerner is also enthralled by them. I think anyone taking offense at the trailer needs to seriously check themselves. Or at least wait until the movie comes out.

45 · Atool said

ondered how people can be so detailed in descriptions of places which are not on any map, have no travel destinations in the known Universe, and -- to be brutally honest -- no one ever came back from with snapshots and/or video footage to tell us what it was like.

Dude, this is satire. Lighten up a bit.

Brilliant. I only wish I could make this kind of stuff up. Many of us probably find this far more offensive than the movie itself.

I hope the Hindu Janajagruti Samiti can take time from its busy schedule of being outraged about key issues such as Gandhi's evilness, the Love Guru, Ram Setu, Obama-Krishna pictures, M. F. Husain paintings, and encouraging rape and death threats against Ramayana animators to declare what they feel about charlatans like these (to name just three examples) who are one of the real taints on any religion: misusing the very basic faith and trust people put in them in the vilest way possible.

The Love Guru, few news stories have been paying attention to other creative documents by the Hindu Janjagruti Samiti relating to the film, such as the following table:

Yours sincerely,

Sean Clarke

Editor,

SpiritualResearchFoundation.org

Oh! really.. But in the midst of a sarcasmic fit, the author of this article forgot to post the above snippet, may be SM wants to save disk space/bandwidth costs ?.

The table is from a letter written by an individual to the producers of the film. Congratulations for a nice little hit job vis.a.vis Hindu Janjagruti Samiti.

HJS has a lot more nuttier stuff on their website and seems to preach hate against other faiths!

69 · NYC Akshay said

I think you can hold on to it without it being a simplistic way to determine whether or not you will be born as a baboon.

i'm hoping to reborn as a female bonobo. the real love gurus (or so thought some).

@to the idiot above

Go play your "Al Taqiyya" defence else where.

Karma is really just cause-and-effect. Causality is a law of life; it doesn't have to be linked to anything metaphysical.

I'm not really a science type, but how do you separate cause and effect from metaphysics (the way things are)?

81 · Divya said

I'm not really a science type, but how do you separate cause and effect from metaphysics (the way things are)?

I'm actually not the science type, either. Metaphysics is usually defined as meta - above + physics - the physical, or in other words, something that transcends the material. Reincarnation is a metaphysical belief, because it involves principles and concepts that are not perceptible to our five senses. By detaching karma from that, you are making it simply a physical process. I throw a ball into the air, and it lands because of because of the causes and conditions of gravity, among other things. I slap a random stranger on the street, and depending on the causes and conditions, they will react in a certain way. That's what I mean by karma; just plain causality. If you choose to think this way, then we are all products of causes and effects, and since every event is both a cause and an effect, I think one valid way of looking at life is through this lens of karma.

Re 5:

I must admit, I am rather curious about this “nether region” idea.

Do I have to be a cunning linguist to understand what going to the nether region means?

Rahul, weren't they simply referring to the er, rim of hell?

Re 34:

2. Rahul Dravid and other cricketters are against the cheerleaders.

it was just hard to focus on the bouncing ball when there were such pretty bouncing cheerleaders on the field

Yes, but whose ball?

Anyway, bouncing babes are more entertaining than bouncing babies.

NYC Akshay, laws of causality involve things (or people), and things are made up of substance, so you cannot escape metaphysics. Actually philsophers and scientists no longer talk about metaphysics, it's just plain physics now (much of matter transcends the senses as well, which your explanation overlooks). As a matter of fact, they no longer talk about causality either and rely instead on theories and predictions. If this is of any interest, you'd like Karl Popper's autobiography- Unended Quest, or any introductory book on the philosophy of science. I find them useful in understanding the indian intellectual traditions as well as they help figure out the issues that are important and help separate them from the god stuff and other nonsense that has accumulated over the years.

86 · Divya said

NYC Akshay, laws of causality involve things (or people), and things are made up of substance, so you cannot escape metaphysics. Actually philsophers and scientists no longer talk about metaphysics, it's just plain physics now (much of matter transcends the senses as well, which your explanation overlooks). As a matter of fact, they no longer talk about causality either and rely instead on theories and predictions. If this is of any interest, you'd like Karl Popper's autobiography- Unended Quest, or any introductory book on the philosophy of science. I find them useful in understanding the indian intellectual traditions as well as they help figure out the issues that are important and help separate them from the god stuff and other nonsense that has accumulated over the years.

You are right; my definition wasn't a complete one. I should have said that metaphysics deals with unobservables, which is why the aspects of physics that involve any manner of observation can never be part of metaphysics. By this definition, karma as a concept is not metaphysical since causality can be observed. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that things are made up of substance, and must therefore involve metaphysics.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that things are made up of substance, and must therefore involve metaphysics.

Well, we can just drop the term metaphysics even though some people still use it. I just meant to say that I don't think you can detach reincarnation from karma like you said in 82, since it is reincarnation of something (a substance to put it in concrete terms) and the same laws would apply to the substance that gets reincarnated as would apply to the substance that the laws of cause and effect operate on (remember the theory is that there's ultimately just one substance). Anyway, this is just my half-baked opinion. Maybe it's a whole other world at that level and maybe there's no reincarnation even.

Just as physical karma, there could be purely physical reincarnation, because all the same atoms, and sub-atomic particles are being used in the universe to form something else (even if it is energy) anyway. It would be interesting to tag an atom in someone and see how it "reincarnates" over the years. We could also perhaps calculate the karma attached to that single atom (or even electron?) and prove/disprove reincarnation/karma attachment.

It would be interesting to tag an atom in someone and see how it "reincarnates" over the years.

Well, there is the canonical parlor game of estimating the probability that the breath you just took has a molecule that was in Jesus's last breath, assuming that the molecules of air have mixed sufficiently well all over the world in the past 2000 years, and that there has been extremely limited absorption or release of these molecules into some permanent repository like the sea or the earth.

There are roughly m = 10^44 molecules of air, and roughly n = 2*10^22 molecules in a breath. So, the probability that any one molecule was in Jesus' breath is p = n/m = 2*10^(-22). The probability that any one molecule was not in Jesus' breath is q = 1-p = 1-(2*10^(-22)). Hence, assuming independence as a result of all the mixing in the past 2 millenia, the probability that none of the molecules in your previous breath was in Jesus' breath, P = probability that molecule 1 was not in J's breath * probability that molecule 2 was not in J's breath *... * probability that molecule n=2*10^22 was not in J's breath = q^n = (1-2*10^(-22))^(2*10^(22)). Now, 1-x is roughly e^(-x) for small x, so P is roughly e^[(-2*10^(-22))*(2*10^(-22))] = e^(-4) which comes to about 0.018. So, there's a 1-P probability = 0.982 = 98.2% chance that you just inhaled a molecule that was in Jesus' breath. Counting all the breaths you take in a day, it's extremely likely that you inhale something from J's last exhalation every day.

That's reincarnation for you :)

Also, what is the Hindu explanation for parking karma?

Act: Playing your cards right

Means: A nice, long trip to my nether region

Karma is really just cause-and-effect. Causality is a law of life;

a centerpiece of the Indian intellectual tradition holds that any description of the universe that attempts to be complete leads to a logical paradox.

Everything comes from India! 'Tis a real pity Hilbert wasn't paying attention to GGM.

Table provided in the article is absolutely true.. If you ignore it u are bound to have it...

Calling oneself a Hindu while having no real understanding of Vedanta and not possessing the requisite sense of humor: One solid bitchslap

This is like certain members of the Catholic Church getting all riled up about the alternative concepts presented in a fraking work of fiction called The Golden Compass. Threatened stupids.

93 · Rahul said

a centerpiece of the Indian intellectual tradition holds that any description of the universe that attempts to be complete leads to a logical paradox.

Everything comes from India! 'Tis a real pity Hilbert wasn't paying attention to GGM.

'tis a pity you don't read up on Indian philosophy. The trajectory of philosophy is very different from that of the sciences or mathematics. It is one thing to derive a conclusion through speculation, vaada, vitanda, jalpa, tarka, avyaya, and another to develop axioms, laws, and proofs.

The trajectory of philosophy is very different from that of the sciences or mathematics. It is one thing to derive a conclusion through speculation, vaada, vitanda, jalpa, tarka, avyaya, and another to develop axioms, laws, and proofs.

I'm not sure why you say this. What difference does it make how you derive your conclusion, as long as it is a valid conclusion? Perhaps you mean to say that science and math cannot do for you what philosophy can? Also, even though I attempt to study Sanskrit off and on (witout making too much progress), I cannot fully respect any knowledge that cannot be communicated in modern 21st century language, even that which is ultimately experiential. The ancient sages were able to communicate their knowledge in the language of their day, and if hindus go about claiming that there is some sort of eternal knowledge to be found, then they should be able to communicate it in modern terminology.

59 · jyotsana said

34 · MoorNam said

Rahul,>> I wasn't because the Shiv Seniacs and their ilk protesting

It's not only what people say that matters - it's what they leave out. And what did his Royal Highness Rahul leave out?

The DMK/DK and "pro-social justice" "rationalist" punks ran amok a couple of years ago when actress Kushboo expressed her contempt of men who demand that women remain "chaste" etc., And when Suhasini Maniratnam came to Kushboo's defence one of the punks threatened to throw her Aryan Brahmin wazoo out of the State. Recently when Shreya attended an awards ceremony dressed in a miniskirt (in the presence of Karunanidhi no less) the self-same "social justice" punks raised a huge furore, issuing the usual threats. The DMK/DK alphabet soup are the greatest hypocrites, demanding chastity of their women, when as a rule most of them are pretty adventurous. T.R. Baalu, Karunanidhi's enforcer/Gauleiter, and now Minister of Petroleum is in trouble because of a squabble between the children of his 1st wife and the ones of his 2nd.

Do you guys read the news or do you simply read the trash dished out by Vijay Prashad, Raju Ramasamy, Balmurli Natraj etc?

Anti-Tamil prejudice flares up again. Tamils interpreted Kushboo's remarks as a slander against Tamil womanhood and engaged in democratic protest.

tis a pity you don't read up on Indian philosophy. The trajectory of philosophy is very different from that of the sciences or mathematics. It is one thing to derive a conclusion through speculation, vaada, vitanda, jalpa, tarka, avyaya, and another to develop axioms, laws, and proofs.

i do not see how these modes of argument are inconsistent with deploying 'axioms, laws, and proofs' to derive a conclusion.

The discussion through which knowledge is gained about doctrines is called the Vada; that which is only for gaining victory over the opponents is Jalpa; the debate where the quibbles (chala) analogues (jati) and respondent's failures (nigrahasthana) are utilized to vanquish the opponent is called vitanda in Nyaya system and was used to defend their own views by right or wrong means.

for instance, i could derive a conclusion based on whatever axioms (develop a proof) -- and my opponents could engage with me, using any modes of arguments you mention. it may be that i am not understanding you right, but developing critiques of an opponent's conclusions (in even mathematical and natural sciences besides philosophy and the social sciences) follow the trajectories you mention on a conceptual level. of course, i am commenting with only a superficial knowledge of the modes of argument you mention, but they don't seem unique to indian epistemology.

A somewhat related post, based on a true story, from a (tired) mother's point-of-view here. Apparently I am not technical enough to figure out how all this T.r.a.c.k.b.a.c.k address thing works.

The trajectory of philosophy is very different from that of the sciences or mathematics. It is one thing to derive a conclusion through speculation, vaada, vitanda, jalpa, tarka, avyaya, and another to develop axioms, laws, and proofs.

I was just joking around with my earlier comment, mostly because the phrase "description of the universe" means so many different things to different people. I agree with your statement if you are implying that science and philosophy operate in non-overlapping magisteria (to borrow Stephen Jay Gould's term).

90 · Rahul Flatow for Science Sunday said

It would be interesting to tag an atom in someone and see how it "reincarnates" over the yea