The bigger problem may be that Weiner went public before Abedin. Usually, it's the gal that confirms or denies she is involved with someone.

Did I just hear Abhi cry? :)

Huma’s got her hands so full that I can’t see how she’s able to hold Weiner’s.

Uh Ennis, did you mean that as a double entendre or was that accidental genius?

Either way it made me laugh out loud!

Huma’s got her hands so full that I can’t see how she’s able to hold Weiner’s.

haha good one.

That’s right, Hillary can solve the problems of the Middle East by bringing together Muslims and Jews, two semites at a time (waggle brows).

her father is indian and her mother pakistani. how can she be a semite? (unless you're presuming that islam-runs-in-the-blood and conversion changes your ethnic identity, which isn't true)

her father is indian and her mother pakistani. how can she be a semite? (unless you're presuming that islam-runs-in-the-blood and conversion changes your ethnic identity, which isn't true)

no worries ;-) she lived in saudi arabia so i thought you'd confused that for her ancestral county.

She is Scytho-Punjabi, I bet she can drink Bubba under the table (but it is probably best not to be under a table with Bubba)

Well if his love is motivating him to support Clinton, it is fine. I am a firm Obama supporter, but he did win a fan when I saw this clip.

Ah yes, a beautiful desi girl, a non-desi guy. Politics as usual.

Tongue-in-cheek... eh, sort of.

Speaking of beards, dedicated fans of Jindal, prepare for stiff competition. Charlie Crist is desperately growing a beard too.

No self respecting minority woman in politics would ever date a non-white.

No self respecting minority woman in politics would ever date a non-white.

don't worry, hmf, no self respecting white person considers jews white, so it's all good.

No self respecting minority woman in politics would ever date a non-white.

HMF, you do have occasional flashes of insight, but, really--you are starting to be a bit too random. You're saying here, for example, that if Bobby Jindal was a woman s/he would have to have a white partner? That's loony-tunes.

12 · HMF said

No self respecting minority woman in politics would ever date a non-white.

And she goes dutch on their dates too!

no self respecting white person considers jews white, so it's all good.

What on earth are you talking about? Do you actually know any upper-class Americans? Yeah, and triangles have four sides. . . .

16 · rob said

What on earth are you talking about? Do you actually know any upper-class Americans? Yeah, and triangles have four sides. . . .

not as intimately as you rob, of course.

Yeah, and triangles have four sides. . . .

dude, some of the best triangles i've been in have had four sides...

16 · rob said

What on earth are you talking about? Do you actually know any upper-class Americans? Yeah, and triangles have four sides. . . .

rob, i'm sure OP is being sarcastic. hir handle is hagee-lite.

17 · portmanteau

not as intimately as you rob, of course.

LOL--touche.
My point being, whilst Americans (at high levels) no doubt note Jewish/non-Jewish, it in no way is comparable to white/non-white.

My point being, whilst Americans (at high levels) no doubt note Jewish/non-Jewish, it in no way is comparable to white/non-white.

my golf club employs only jewish caddies.

HMF, you do have occasional flashes of insight, but, really--you are starting to be a bit too random. You're saying here, for example, that if Bobby Jindal was a woman s/he would have to have a white partner? That's loony-tunes.

I generally stay well away from this type of thread and there aren't enough datapoints, but there's something to what he says. It's reflected in ads & media as well in the makeup of interracial couples so why not politics? If Jindal were a Repub pundit rather than someone seeking elected office, given his religion and social circle he would have most likely married white (like D'Souza & Ponnuru). But marrying white would have alienated much of his constituency so he opted for an Indian. On the other hand, an Indian/Asian woman marrying white has simply seen the light and will be seen as a great example of assimilation. The majority community does perceive minority men & women in mixed relationships differently. Also, politics is about access so marrying someone who isn't from the majority community (i.e. white male) does not advance your cause. For the record I don't believe this in any way explains the dynamics of most mixed couples or Huma. It's just that most politicians suffer from some level of sociopathy so it is natural for me to look for reasons other than love in the creation of power couples

If Jindal [] marrying white would have alienated much of his constituency so he opted for an Indian.

LOL--why are you thinking most of Jindal's voters are Desi? That's whack!

22 · louiecypher said

The majority community does perceive minority men & women in mixed relationships differently.

i think for once HMF is on to something. although the way in which he expressed it was odd. one could say an opportunistic or ambitious person would marry white for political gain. putting it in terms of self-respect, brings in the issue of self-hatred, which is an unfair remark to make. unless you have very good data about the psychology of the individual you're talking about. and something tells me, HMF and huma abedin are less than intimate.
but, then again, who would have said katie holmes would be tom cruise's lawfully wedded?

If Jindal [] marrying white would have alienated much of his constituency so he opted for an Indian. LOL--why are you thinking most of Jindal's voters are Desi? That's whack!

Ummm, no. I know much of his constituency is racist whites who may forgive Jindal his wonkishness/high IQ but would not be too happy if he got uppity and put his arm around a white woman. They are merely Ok with him being a public servant

22 · louiecypher said

If Jindal were a Repub pundit rather than someone seeking elected office, given his religion and social circle he would have most likely married white (like D'Souza & Ponnuru). But marrying white would have alienated much of his constituency so he opted for an Indian.

Interesting point. Look at the minorities guys who married different races. Alan Keyes married an Indian chick, and lost to Obama in 04; Michael Steele married a white, and lost in Maryland. However, Maryland and Illinois are blue states though.

If Jindal were a Repub pundit rather than someone seeking elected office, given his religion and social circle he would have most likely married white (like D'Souza & Ponnuru).

Maybe Jindal married his wife cause he fell in love with her. That may be a crazy idea, but that could be the reason.

So what after he done being in his office, he gonna dump his wife and marry someone who white.

25 · louiecypher Ummm, no. I know much of his constituency is racist whites who may forgive Jindal his wonkishness/high IQ but would not be too happy if he got uppity and put his arm around a white woman.

I am not denying that these racial dynamics are complicated or worth thinking about, but you, with, that comment, are really living in a weird bubble--I couldn't care less about the people who are (hypothetically) mad about the location of his arm--just stop denying that you are so sad that Bobby Jindal has achieved 100x more in his life than you will ever do.

22 · louiecypher said

If Jindal were a Repub pundit rather than someone seeking elected office, given his religion and social circle he would have most likely married white (like D'Souza & Ponnuru). But marrying white would have alienated much of his constituency so he opted for an Indian.

just out of curiosity, does anyone think this logic applies to obama?

just stop denying that you are so sad that Bobby Jindal has achieved 100x more in his life than you will ever do.

i think "rob" is really "bob"by.

just out of curiosity, does anyone think this logic applies to obama?

it applied to harold ford, and mccain is hoping for the same ol' magic.

31 · hagee-lite said

it applied to harold ford, and mccain is hoping for the same ol' magic.

i get it rahul. i guess that's what andy was getting at.

just stop denying that you are so sad that Bobby Jindal has achieved 100x more in his life than you will ever do. i think "rob" is really "bob"by.

I'll have to drink myself to sleep tonight....Rob has made me confront my inadequacies

i get it rahul

well i am not rahul, but that's ot. let us keep the focus on the political impact of miscegenation.

34 · hagee-lite said

well i am not rahul

damn. i guess you're rahul-lite

Hey hey hey, guys, cool it!

Abhi, keep your head up. Weiner has had high-profile flings before. You may still have a chance.

I do have to admit, as soon as I read this on NY Mag, the first thing I thought about was sepia.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/05/weiner_finally_opens_up_about.html#hp

Abedin's mom is a Pakistani living in Saudi. Abedin herself is on the board of the Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs. Her father was a prominent Indian Muslim Scholar. It's a background that you'd think wopuld sit uncomforatbly witrh Wener, given his political views.

Fr instance, in Congress, Wiener .. introduced (an) amendment proposing Saudi Arabia be added to a list of countries named by the U.S. State Department as terror-supporting states. and at another time, Congressman Wiener attempted to introduce an amendment that would have removed a small amount of money providing education funding for members of the Saudi military.

Going further, Weiner has said he “come(s) from the ZOA (Zionist Organization of America) wing of the Democratic Party. The ZOA is on the nutcase end of American Jewish Organizations: it's pro-settlement, anti-Oslo, anti-Palestinian state.

Finally, here's a story about New York Desi activists from Weiner's district trying to get help from Wiener for a Pakistani family rounded up by the BCIS

We visited Anthony Wiener, the congressman from Jamaica [in Queens, NY] ... We met with Wiener’s staff. The staff were very uncomfortable when a dozen brown people pressed into their office

It's a background that you'd think wopuld sit uncomforatbly witrh Wener, given his political views.

I wondered about that on Huma's side, but Hillary is pretty hawkish on many Israeli-Palestinian issues as well, so maybe it doesn't bother her.

Still, there's much here that feels like it's for public consumption rather than being a private matter that came to light. Since her private life isn't really my business, I can't say it bothers me either way.

I thought Muslims don't date non-Muslims.

I thought Muslims don't date non-Muslims.

Many use the term Muslim too generally, i.e. they would describe agnostics like Rushdie or Ayan Hirsi Ali as Muslim. A Muslim is someone who practices Islam. We don't know the extent of her religiousity...her membership in the Minority Affairs Group may have more to do with the fact that the masses will perceive her to be Muslim regardless. I don't know of any Muslims (defined as a practitioner of Islam) who married people who didn't convert to Islam. I know people who come from a Muslim heritage but don't practice Islam who marry/date non-Muslims.

Louiecypher wrote:
her membership in the Minority Affairs Group may have more to do with the fact that the masses will perceive her to be Muslim regardless

er -- no. This isn't hard to google. The journal was founded by her father, the late Syed Z. Abedin. Her sister and her mother are aslo involved. It's a family affair.

And to answer Rahul S, it's not that Muslims don't date non-muslims, it's that Muslims don't date ugly non-Muslims.

Ikram: Yes I am aware, but membership in a family run organization speaks little about her religiousity. You inherit a family not necessarily their religion. If I were an openly agnostic Muslim (but not of the antagonistic Hirsi Ali variety) rather than an agnostic Hindu I could see myself getting involved in such an org. to speak out against profiling, workplace discrimination and other issues that people perceived to be Muslim have to deal with

42 · Ikram said

And to answer Rahul S, it's not that Muslims don't date non-muslims, it's that Muslims don't date ugly non-Muslims.

I've seen one Muslim girl date a hindu guy. That girl was pretty good looking, but other girls told me the guy was ugly. So, this could maybe be from your experience or people that you know.

40 · Rahul S said

I thought Muslims don't date non-Muslims.

Check out Jodhaa-Akbar.

I thought Weiner is gay?

46 · payal said

I thought Weiner is gay?

Naw, that's Senator Craig.

Is Weiner just a beard for Huma?

Bubba ain't complainin'.

(video probably NSFW).

46 · payal said

I thought Weiner is gay?

no, it's just that every get-together at his pad devolves into a weiner fest.

HMF, you do have occasional flashes of insight, but, really--you are starting to be a bit too random

provide me a counter example. Politics and Media are white heavy institutions (and in the latter case, Jew heavy as well) so a minority woman in those fields would likely marry someone successful in those fields, and they would likely be white.

but there's something to what he says.

Of course there is. It's quite simple when you think about it. For a woman that sees time after time white people at the head of every institution, company, etc.. they're obviously going to be drawn towards that power, and the association of white=powerful, better in an all around humanistic sense will exist, not to mention years of DIsney brainwashing and social programming. Huma wouldn't be caught dead with a person of color.

Does this amount to 'self-hatred'? Yes and no, it's not that she hates herself, or even hates all muslims or pakistanis or whatever group she belongs to, she just sees it as fundamentally lesser value.

i think for once HMF is on to something.

I think for once you were honest with yourself, go back and read the other exchanges and see the situation you refer to, happens much more than once.

hmf accepts all of your apologies.

50 · HMF said

provide me a counter example

what about ann coulter's indian fetish?

Huma wouldn't be caught dead with a person of color.

It's here that I differ with you. I am cynical about the reasons most people couple up even where both parties are of the same race. But I do believe that some 20% are bound by the real thing. So I agree with you about racial dynamics at the macro level, but I believe it is a leap to state that with certainty about Huma unless you know her particular history

just to go with the flow, maybe we're at the point in history where POC will date their own ethnicity just to make a "political statement." Yeah, I'm very suspicious of this Barack character. left wing Jindal, I tell ya.

Manju said: what about ann coulter's indian fetish?

Thats not exactly a counter example. For those unfamiliar with basic logic, a counter example is one that disproves an assertion. Hence, a woman POC in mainstream media and politics that does not date a white man. What you speak of is It's an inverse, sadly I'm not familiar with Coulter's dating history, I don't think dinesh qualifies as a 'fetish', but she's rarely pictured with any POC anyway, either way, what she says is so outlandish she could date farrakhan and not lose her base.

So I agree with you about racial dynamics at the macro level, but I believe it is a leap to state that with certainty about Huma unless you know her particular history

It's not huma specifically Im limiting to. Its a facet of inductive reasoning, ie. observe many instances -> induct a general rule, -> generate other instances based on the general rule. I'm saying I don't need to know her personally, rather just have a general idea given the circles she must travel in, the successful people she sees will have a certain look to them, a certain skin tone to them. hence, those qualities will be what she's ultimately attracted to.

50 · HMF said

provide me a counter example

what about ann coulter's indian fetish?

Was D'Souza an outlier, or have there been other victimsmacacas? One brown man does not a fetish make. Could have been too many appletinis at the Dartmouth Review reunion. Also, Ann fits in with my pundit/columnist interracial observation. They can do just about anything. I am sure Molinari would have lost all her vote block had she married a Patel strip mall developer after her first marriage ended.

58 · louiecypher said

Was D'Souza an outlier, or have there been other victimsmacacas? One brown man does not a fetish make.

no, she's likes brown guys...heard her say it.

58 · louiecypher said

Was D'Souza an outlier, or have there been other victimsmacacas? One brown man does not a fetish make.

no, she's likes brown guys...heard her say it.

Manju you old dog, are telling us something? No wonder she's cranky, you never called her back and now she wants to see us all in Gitmo.

57 · HMF said

Thats not exactly a counter example

well, congreswomen doris matsui husband was of the same ethnicity

leave it up to you to find another outlier. of course her district is 15% asian, and she took over for her husband, meaning she married before getting into politics.

52 · HMF said

go back and read the other exchanges and see the situation you refer to

dude, i think you may be the van gogh of sepia. your radicalness may be appreciated postho......(whoops, morbid clintonesque joke; need spin doctors).

62 · HMF said

of course her district is 15% asian, and she took over for her husband, meaning she married before getting into politics

why is that relevant? you can't be affected by disney or associate white w/ powerful until you enter politcs?

dude, i think you may be the van gogh of sepia. your radicalness

radicalness? since when did thinking people should be treated equally qualify as a radical thought?

why is that relevant? you can't be affected by disney or associate white w/ powerful until you enter politcs?

No. it's just those become more important when you do (and it's usually entering the high profile media covered politics, congressional districts don't qualify, but working for a high profile presidential campaign, I'd say, does)

HMF,
Well how about Carol Moseley Braun? Actually, I can't verify her ex-husband's race, but no particular reason to think it's white! (Unless your theory is eerily true!)
You are on to something, perhaps--hahaha, I have to say I did have a difficult time coming up with a counter-example (and, not even a clear one at that)--you should write a NYT op-ed on this--props to the point--weird!!

i hear condi dates only black men.

maxine waters's husband is black

59 Manju said

no, she's likes brown guys....heard her say it.

that's what she said!? because that's exactly what i said too.
manju, seriously, stop crossing party lines. leave our women alone.

observe many instances -> induct a general rule, -> generate other instances based on the general rule.

beta, read your karl popper.

Of course induction has it's problems. but you don't go crossing a highway do you? why because most people who do that get smacked with a car, and you induct a rule that it's unsafe to do so.

69 · HMF said

Condi doesn't count, she's licked the presidents ass so much, she could date jeremiah wright it wouldnt matter

what's the relevance? if you lick bush's ass you can't associate white with powerful or see POC as possessing "fundamentally lesser value?" so licking bush's ass is the cure for racism?

66 · rob said

YYou are on to something, perhaps--hahaha, I have to say I did have a difficult time coming up with a counter-example

a. how many minority women are in politics?
b. how many minority women (not in politics) outmarry?

maybe these numbers have something to do with the difficulty of finding counterexamples? (of course, if you believe that the only way (minority) women are likely to succeed is by sleeping their way to the top, then the theory makes sense.)

well, i'm open to hmf's theory, but we need more datapoints. also, we must consider alternate explanations, like its just a simple matter of chance...like if you worked in silicon valley your odds of marrying an indain dude would rise, not necessarily b/c you associated indian with power.

or perhaps powerful woemn are less tolerant of misogynistic men, and MOC tend, like HMF and I, to be more misogynistic since Feminism is more advanced in the West. Hillary Clinton, nonewithstanding.

interestingly, i know one female indian ibanker who only dates white guys b/c she says indian guys think she's too dark and never ask her out. and i think i've managed to shove every theme from 400+ comment threads on SM into one post.

well, i'm open to hmf's theory, but we need more datapoints.

well, it is so common to see women who marry late after an investment in a career, isn't it? so, all you need to do is find a woman in politics who is:
a. a minority
b. married well after she had a political career

i am sure you can just rattle those names off. and then count off the ones who outmarried, and show that the difference is statistically significant when compared to the outmarriage rate in the general population.

how hard can that be?

of course it should be noted that huma does not really have a political career..she's a butler.

66 · rob said

You are on to something, perhaps--hahaha, I have to say I did have a difficult time coming up with a counter-example (and, not even a clear one at that)--you should write a NYT op-ed on this--props to the point--weird!!

socioeconomics can be answer. rob, i think you will see the appeal of this hypothesis (because it features the sport of olympian social climbing).

a succesful under-represented minority woman is likely to be on a different trajectory than most of her male cohorts (and female cohorts as well). she is likely to be born into a wealthier family that converges to 'standards in mainstream suburbia (Condoleeza Rice is an example)'. or she is likely to pursue educational opportunities which take her away from her peers/roots (see the summary analyses of Michelle Obama's senior thesis). such a woman's sensibilities and dating pool is going to shrink and she is more likely to pair with men with similar educational or professional backgrounds, where there will be a dearth of ur-minorities. such a woman may be ambitious and not unreceptive to dating people of color*. but circumstances conspire otherwise. simultaneously, the advantages of marrying white also outweigh the disadvantages of losing cultural homogeneity in one's immediate family (as outlined by HMF).

* i went to a liberal arts university. for the first two years, the only interesting desi guys were hipsters. which is not my scene. so although i am not averse to dating brown, i dated white because they just happened to like the same stuff that i did. and by stuff, i mean....
and then, the incoming classes were younger guys, as old as my brother. so that was out too. but after school, after i got on sepiadestiny, let's just say that sam and his wife weren't the only ones making the beast with the two brownbacks in town.

Maybe Huma is like many other succesful south asian women in the west who date outside the community. They know if they marry a non south asian guy, they won't have to deal with a south asian mother-in-law.

But I'm thinking that it must eat HMF up, that there some south asian women who would rather date any white guy before they date him. I can't really blame those women.

interestingly, i know one female indian ibanker who only dates white guys b/c she says indian guys think she's too dark and never ask her out.

I have heard that story more then a few times.

I have heard that story more then a few times.

i also heard that story about a second shooter on the grassy knoll many times. what's your point?

meaning she married before getting into politics

so, women who outmarry are
a. ambitious
b. stupid enough to think they can make it on their own,
c. after getting asked to fetch the coffee one too many times decide to marry whitey as that fixes the problem.

if they were smart, wouldn't they save time by marrying white before starting a career so they can get a leg up?

in other news, 7 out of 10 tongans in america think indians smell of curry powder. disprove.

Among my Indian female friends that have married interracially, it's usually due to a combination of the following:

1. They are born and raised in the west and can't deal with the mentality of Indian men from the homeland so they don't want to marry someone from there.

2. They don't meet the "tall/fair/slim" requirement so Indian men aren't interested in them.

3. They are highly educated and/or career-oriented and most Indian men can't handle it when an Indian woman has more education and/or a higher paying job than they do.

I'm not making any of this up. One friend, an MBA grad working in the financial sector, was constantly told by Indian men things like "you're too educated" and "you'll boss me around"; she married a white man who is just as much an educated professional as she is. Another friend was constantly put down by her own relatives for being "too dark"; she married a white lawyer and now those same relatives suck up to her at family functions.

i think you will see the appeal of this hypothesis (because it features the sport of olympian social climbing).

Olympus is easy--Everest and K2 harder--I just don't want to hear any of this back-biting about Jindal, for example, once I get there. I'll make whatever (smallish) concessions I need to to make it to the summit--my blue contacts seem to be a big hit!! ;-)

Another friend was constantly put down by her own relatives for being "too dark"; she married a white lawyer and now those same relatives suck up to her at family functions.

I wouldn't deny for a second that this happens, but, why are you foregrounding it? Some of us ABD's are forging a new, adaptive approach which ruthlessly discards that which holds us back, yet harnesses the positive aspects of Desi culture to propel us to the economic-cultural heights of 21st century America. I am ABD, hear me roar!

Can we PLEASE stay on topic?

80 · statistics said

in other news, 7 out of 10 tongans in america think indians smell of curry powder. disprove.

wanna fund my study? i think the tongan-americans think we smell like attar of roses. or attar of dung. cuz that which smells like a rose etc.

82 · rob said

my blue contacts seem to be a big hit!! ;-)

for your sake, rob, i hope the only things that's blue about you are your contacts.

i mean, i'd hate it if the stress of this alienating social climbing marathon was making you blue. whatcha think i was gonna say?

i mean, i'd hate it if the stress of this alienating social climbing marathon was making you blue. whatcha think i was gonna say?

folks, reading this comment thread is making me dumber

67 · Manju said

i hear condi dates only black men.

It quoted wrong last time.

what's the relevance? if you lick bush's ass you can't associate white with powerful or see POC as possessing "fundamentally lesser value?" so licking bush's ass is the cure for racism?

No, you keep making the same illogical argument. Im saying these cases don't disprove the assertion that women POC involved in high visibility positions are significantly MORE affected by white=powerful=attractive. That doesnt mean the absence of the condition denies the same behavior, or even belief for that matter

For example, if you need a certain adidas shoe to run a marathon, and most people use that shoe, if you find one or two that don't use the shoe, and I say, "well they've found another shoe, or another way to win the marathon without the shoe, but its a special case" you can't say, so what, if you use that method, the first adidas shoe is useless?

Maybe Huma is like many other succesful south asian women in the west who date outside the community. They know if they marry a non south asian guy, they won't have to deal with a south asian mother-in-law.

But I'm thinking that it must eat HMF up, that there some south asian women who would rather date any white guy before they date him. I can't really blame those women.

You forgot to make a reference to which hand I use, or how the palm is important, or whatever the f*ck. White mother in laws can be just as bad, and lop on top of that the layer of racism, it's no picnic for sure.

73 · Manju said

or perhaps powerful woemn are less tolerant of misogynistic men, and MOC tend, like HMF and I, to be more misogynistic since Feminism is more advanced in the West.

Manju, has PG been indoctrinating you?

Abhi, I'm sorry for the role I've played in offending your intellectual sensibilities. But did you think that posting about an eligible brown woman's romantic life wouldn't raise the oft-flogged issue of out-marriage within the desi community? Or that subsequent thread quality degradation would be stalled because Ms. Abedin mesmerizes us so?

now who's being naive, macackay? :)

guys from established larger communities (eg black, latin, and white)got a surplus of swagger and confidence. abd guys are the insecure outsiders who have to compensate with money and appearance just to break even. a lot of desi guys are "alpha" within the desi scene, but hardly so outside of it. if a girl is in the scene herself she'll be more than happy to date one of these guys. if a girl has interests that draw her into a majority non-asian social milieu then the desi guy options may seem less interesting to her. she'll be used to seeing desi guys as chump sidekicks or effete male versions of herself... sorry for all the generalizations, but i'm summarizing a lot of the perceptions that seem to exist, not necessarily the complete reality on the ground

Im saying these cases don't disprove the assertion that women POC involved in high visibility positions are significantly MORE affected by white=powerful=attractive.

ah, so we finally come to this: "assertion" that cannot be disproved even in the presence of counterexamples, and despite hinging on a negligible number of datapoints.

i guess it is useless to point out the cases of stacey tubbs jones and kamala harris, the sf da who is quite well known for dating willie brown, because... umm, women poc know they can get ahead only by sleeping with whitey (but ONLY late in the game).

Abhi, I'm sorry for the role I've played in offending your intellectual sensibilities. But did you think that posting about an eligible brown woman's romantic life wouldn't raise the oft-flogged issue of out-marriage within the desi community? Or that subsequent thread quality degradation would be stalled because Ms. Abedin mesmerizes us so?

Why do people assume that this story was posted by Abhi? He has a very distinctive writing style that is quite different from mine.

Isn't there a simpler answer? If she's dating Rep Weiner, maybe it's b/c he's on the campaign trail with her. And she's not an ambitious politician, she's a very talented PA. So I can't see the motives attributed.

So I can't see the motives attributed.

that is because you have just accepted the white power structure and watch too much disney.

and do not see the obvious point that an anecdote about hillary's secretary's dating life is enough to make conclusions about "high profile women poc in presidential politics" (because, you know, there's so many of them), and that these conclusions, sorry, assertions, are not negated by examples of people like condi - whom some might actually consider a high profile woman poc in presidential politics - because they are such sellouts that they've bought the right to draw within their color boundaries. why is this not blindingly obvious to you?

ah, so we finally come to this: "assertion" that cannot be disproved even in the presence of counterexamples, and despite hinging on a negligible number of datapoints

Go back to the adidas shoe example. Condi towes the line harder than a monster tow truck rally, she doesnt need the adidas shoe.

negigible number of datapoints? Try nearly every woman out there. certainly those I've met and spent time with.

Of course, the woman arent *explicit* about it, they won't say things like, "I only date white" (for fear of looking like uncle toms) what they will say is , "every Indian guy has been a negative experience" or "he doesn't like the fact I'm career driven, or ambitious" or some other codified euphamism like that. But when it's traced to its root, it's trapped in institutional racism, and effective disney-fied social programming.

certainly those I've met and spent time with.

what, you hang with women poc in high profile media politics? congressional districts don't qualify, but working for a high profile presidential campaign, I'd say, does

what, you hang with women poc in high profile media politics?

I've met a few with aspirations in that direction. One in particular, I could out her but that wouldn't be too kind.

Plus, with the Doris Matsui case, I already said her congressional district had a disproportionately large asian population, which would certainly play a large factor.

This one's for you HMF

It never ceases to amaze me that women who say all men are pigs, bastards etc. in one breath will then begin to wonder why they're single in the next... Man-bashing has become so systemic in our society, sometimes I think women don't even know when they're doing it. In pretty much every sitcom on the air, the man is a useless, ignoble, cretinous slob - and those are the good guys. The bad ones are duplicitous, evil, self-serving, shallow, etc.

However. The. Moral. of. the. day [spoken in Shatneresque]

"Just as women love men who love women, so men love women who love men."

One in particular, I could out her but that wouldn't be too kind.

so, what do we have so far? one butler, and another whom you met who said she wanted to be a star one day?

even accepting the tenuous - at best - claim that women in high profile media politics almost always date white (somehow, media commentators are excluded, it seems, as is condi, and doris matsui, and - i don't know about stacey tubb jones and kamala harris), here's an alternate assertion: maybe desi women (and men) who get to a national level tend to be race agnostic in their dating preferences, and believed in new fangled ideas like miscegenation not making them race traitors. and given the preponderance of white men in such scenarios, they end up tending to pick white mates.

Why do people assume that this story was posted by Abhi?

101 · HMF said

One in particular, I could out her but that wouldn't be too kind.

Why, because fraternizing with you has become a giant political liability? HMF, your notoriety has turned you into the desi Jeremiah Wright. The choozas have come home to roost!
Keep it up. Keep it fierce.
And of course, keep it real.

106 · portmanteau said

101 · HMF said

One in particular, I could out her but that wouldn't be too kind.

Why, because fraternizing with you has become a giant political liability? HMF, your notoriety has turned you into the desi Jeremiah Wright. The choozas have come home to roost!Keep it up. Keep it fierce.And of course, keep it real.

Or HMF may be a bitter desi who clings on to her samosas or white men.

91 · HMF said

No, you keep making the same illogical argument. Im saying these cases don't disprove the assertion that women POC involved in high visibility positions are significantly MORE affected by white=powerful=attractive

I'm not making any argument. You are. And you asked for counter examples but now you claim they don't "disprove the assertion" so why ask in the first place?

Why do people assume that this story was posted by Abhi? He has a very distinctive writing style that is quite different from mine.

don't worry, ennis. mommy loves you too.

maggie william's husband is blcak

folks, reading this comment thread is making me dumber

HMF writes: >>But when it's traced to its root, it's trapped in institutional racism, and effective disney-fied social programming.

Interesting with a ring of truth. Can you elaborate a bit on this?

M. Nam

Of course, the woman arent *explicit* about it, they won't say things like, "I only date white"

i've only been following this line of the thread sporadically, but if a woman chooses to date all types of men, but ultimately chooses a white man as her partner, are you all not ruling out the possibility that it was his personality that played the deciding factor (or rather, that race was not an issue)?

Of course, the woman arent *explicit* about it, they won't say things like, "I only date white" (for fear of looking like uncle toms) what they will say is , "every Indian guy has been a negative experience" or "he doesn't like the fact I'm career driven, or ambitious" or some other codified euphamism like that. But when it's traced to its root, it's trapped in institutional racism, and effective disney-fied social programming.

Nailed it.

93 · portmanteau said

Manju, has PG been indoctrinating you?

I'm actually down with PGs and Prema's Bill Cosbyish attacks on Indian society and find their borderline racism more tolerable than the patronizing racism practiced by white liberals like and HMF. I recall one thread where everyone was blabbering on about how generous Indians are and then Prema rolled in with some child malnutrition stats that shut everyone up. That's much better than the "we're not misogynistic, we're not racist, and even if we are it's the fault of colonialism" crew. I blame the victim.

Having said that, I find PG and Prema kinda weird so I keep a distance. Prema in particular, who looks like he's about to go on a shooting spree.

And you asked for counter examples but now you claim they don't "disprove the assertion" so why ask in the first place?

I dont consider those valid counter examples, for the reasons I described.

but ultimately chooses a white man as her partner, are you all not ruling out the possibility that it was his personality that played the deciding factor

I'm saying the two are inextricable. But it's codified. Where I went to school, West Campus was more white, North Campus was more asian populated, but people said things like "West Campus is more fun", "West Campus is more social", "In West Campus the people are cooler" I'm saying in a society that grants white men all these qualities in a basic human relatability sense, it's nonsense to think the constant socialization of white people as better people, in a holistic sense (not just hotter, richer, etc.., but as better human beings) doesn't play a hugely important factor.

116 · HMF said

I dont consider those valid counter examples, for the reasons I described.

so what is your criteria for a valid counter example?

HMF and Krish****, why don't you guys just come out and accept your sexual preference. Then I would not have to read your thesis "Brwn Wimmen r btchs" in every other thread.

Of course, the woman arent *explicit* about it, they won't say things like, "I only date white" (for fear of looking like uncle toms) what they will say is , "every Indian guy has been a negative experience" or "he doesn't like the fact I'm career driven, or ambitious" or some other codified euphamism like that. But when it's traced to its root, it's trapped in institutional racism, and effective disney-fied social programming.

so what is your criteria for a valid counter example?

Someone who married/dated within their race, and has high visibility in media and politics (or someone who clearly has aspirations in that direction)

I'm saying the two are inextricable. But it's codified. Where I went to school, West Campus was more white, North Campus was more asian populated, but people said things like "West Campus is more fun", "West Campus is more social", "In West Campus the people are cooler" I'm saying in a society that grants white men all these qualities in a basic human relatability sense, it's nonsense to think the constant socialization of white people as better people, in a holistic sense (not just hotter, richer, etc.., but as better human beings) doesn't play a hugely important factor.

For those bitter people here, may I suggest that you listen to Michael Savage.

120 · HMF said

Someone who married/dated within their race, and has high visibility in media and politics (or someone who clearly has aspirations in that direction)

well, we gave you condi, maggie williams, maxine waters, we can add star jones or eva longorria (if you accept the media outside of politics).

but i have many a desi guy friend who have felt desi women being 'stolen' from them by white guys, but no such sentiment when the women they desired (or didn't desire, as the case may be) were dating somebody else who happened to be desi...

Because there's an underlying belief that the woman excluded them based on race, and it's one not unreasonable given the social history of this country. White men have 'stolen' women from neirly every country they've invaded. If the person was dating another desi, there's a small feeling that "you might have a chance" so to speak.

but how is this any worse than desis choosing to date only other desis

Because they don't only date desis because they feel they are "better" and that whites (and other races) are inferior, rather it's just a certain shared background and shared experience that is automatically assumed. It's the same reason you and I read and post on this blog, there's an assumed level of shared understanding, it doesn't mean we think of other blogs as inferior.

However, women who say they'll only go white usually go hand in hand with making generalizations about all Indian men being this or that, (either explicity or or implicitly) It's a direct bi product of a racist heirarchical society we grow up in.

don't think that this generalization is apt. you're ruling out the possibility that some people are able to view others as independent of their race. .

Of course I'm ruling that possibility out, race is the single most salient characteristic in the US today. That's clearly obvious. It's not a totally defining characteristic, but I guarantee you, unless your blind, you're making your first assumptions of people based significantly on their race.

also, what of desi people who only look for other desis - clearly, they do not think white people are 'better' people

Actually, at an underlying subconscious level, I argue they do, for certain things, they just value the shared experience more, and other social considerations, like pleasing their parents, etc... might influence the decision.

you're making your first assumptions of people based significantly on their race.

of course, assuming you don't know anything else about them.

124 · HMF said

Of course I'm ruling that possibility out, race is the single most salient characteristic in the US today. That's clearly obvious. It's not a totally defining characteristic, but I guarantee you, unless your blind, you're making your first assumptions of people based significantly on their race.

well ther's also gender, not to mention class. and there's no reason to restrict it to the US. there may not be different races in India but there's certainly class, caste, regional signifiers that people make first assumptions with. distinctions w/o a difference. its a universal human phenomena about how people judge others.

It's the same reason you and I read and post on this blog, there's an assumed level of shared understanding, it doesn't mean we think of other blogs as inferior.

but if i don't read/post on sepia or desi blogs, but i hang out on wonkette/thesuperficial, it is because i am in thrall of whitey and have rejected my desi identity?

Because there's an underlying belief that the woman excluded them based on race, and it's one not unreasonable given the social history of this country. White men have 'stolen' women from neirly every country they've invaded. If the person was dating another desi, there's a small feeling that "you might have a chance" so to speak.

Because they don't only date desis because they feel they are "better" and that whites (and other races) are inferior, rather it's just a certain shared background and shared experience that is automatically assumed. It's the same reason you and I read and post on this blog, there's an assumed level of shared understanding, it doesn't mean we think of other blogs as inferior. However, women who say they'll only go white usually go hand in hand with making generalizations about all Indian men being this or that, (either explicity or or implicitly) It's a direct bi product of a racist heirarchical society we grow up in.

of course, assuming you don't know anything else about them.

you date people without knowing anything about them apart from their race? and you don't even buy them drinks or dinner! how do you do it, hmf? how? you are my hero!

but if i don't read/post on sepia or desi blogs, but i hang out on wonkette/thesuperficial, it is because i am in thrall of whitey and have rejected my desi identity?

Of course, the woman arent *explicit* about it, they won't say things like, "I only date white" (for fear of looking like uncle toms) what they will say is , "every Indian guy has been a negative experience" or "he doesn't like the fact I'm career driven, or ambitious" or some other codified euphamism like that.

Why is it not a codified euphemism for "Don't ask me for a date"?

Actually, at an underlying subconscious level, I argue they do, for certain things, they just value the shared experience more, and other social considerations, like pleasing their parents, etc... might influence the decision.

how could i forget Oprah!

133 · Manju said

how could i forget Oprah!

of course, she sold out by licking steinbeck's ass. she could date michael pfleger, it wouldn't matter.

well ther's also gender, not to mention class. and there's no reason to restrict it to the US.

yes and we can talk about aliens too. Of course, I said race is the MOST salient, not the only one. And I'm restricting our discussion to the US because it's clear Ms Huma and her potential suitors are all within the US and are affected by the same society we are.

it irks me that the guy thinks they would have been 'in the race' but for their, well, race

It irks you? well crack open a friggin history book. This country is replete with legitamized removal of people from all kinds of races, SIMPLY BECAUSE of their "race" No one wants to believe their race was the mitigating factor, as it's not a good feeling, its something you cannot control, this is why institutional racism or racism of any kind is such a downer.

but for women who are open to all races, i don't think it's fair to say that ultimately choosing a white guy sometimes reflects something more than just individual compatibilities.

That's an idealistic and impractical viewpoint. The same reason white people cannot "be proud and unite" behind their whiteness (and not be considered racist), desi women cannot have propensities towards white men (and I'd argue that if a desi girl ultimately chooses one, it's out of a propensity towards them, nine times out of ten) and have those propensities be divorced from the racial heirarchy that our society pumps into us from day one.

although, getting back to desi women who solely date white, i don't even think it's worth discussing - and i pointed them out only because of the sour grapes attitude of some desi men towards them.

It's not towards them, it's toward their inability to realize how they've been socially manipulated and disneyfied, and more so than that, how most of them get burned in the long run (many data points to prove this). but in the end, maybe they deserve it.

135 · HMF said

yes and we can talk about aliens too. Of course, I said race is the MOST salient, not the only one. And I'm restricting our discussion to the US because it's clear Ms Huma and her potential suitors are all within the US and are affected by the same society we are.

actually, i've heard many race-theorist begin to consider that class is the most salient. and restricting discussion to the US makes no sense to our diaspora or any globalized communities of color.

also, going beyond the US helps us consider other possibilities beyond American-centric race theories.

hillary clinton and gloria steinam argue that gender is the most salient

actually, i've heard many race-theorist begin to consider that class is the most salient.

like whom? race is the most salient, when it's considered within class.

ie compare a black ceo to bill gates, not to a white one-legged busboy.

hillary clinton and gloria steinam argue that gender is the most salient

Gender's implications are not complete social constructs. So a comparison doesnt even make sense. It's like saying race is the most salient feature in the NBA, and you retort with, no, leg length is. But leg length has physical implications (as does gender)

It's not towards them, it's toward their inability to realize how they've been socially manipulated and disneyfied, and more so than that, how most of them get burned in the long run (many data points to prove this). but in the end, maybe they deserve it.

It irks you? well crack open a friggin history book. This country is replete with legitamized removal of people from all kinds of races, SIMPLY BECAUSE of their "race" No one wants to believe their race was the mitigating factor, as it's not a good feeling, its something you cannot control, this is why institutional racism or racism of any kind is such a downer.

and of propensities towards white people - this may be so, but i don't know what says that we shouldn't have a propensity towards white people, or that we should have a propensity towards desi people. each person is a result of their circumstances, be they geographical, socio-economic, ethnic, religious, academic or otherwise. and these may very well make them have more in common with somebody who is of a differet race or ethnicity, but nonetheless they have - not just think they have - more in common with such people, whether or not other desis think that is 'right.'

how most of them get burned in the long run (many data points to prove this)

you sound like my grandparents when they insist i should marry within my caste. and i think they are prejudiced and backward for pushing such an idea.

also, what about desi men who date white women? are they race traitors too? should we set a pile of diwali firecrackers on fire on their lawn so they realize the error of their ways?

t's not towards them, it's toward their inability to realize how they've been socially manipulated and disneyfied

good! now i feel better about considering some commenters racist, misogynist blockheads. it's not them, it's their extremist ideas.

Amaun,

Why don't you do us all a favor and flush yourself down the toilet... there are enough brown turds floating in the SM toilet bowl already.

This thread started out as some celebrity garbage, but HMF redirected the debate choosing to use the lens of race/class--and that's what I'm voicing my agreement with.

I really could not care who this girl or any other brown girl dates, sleeps with, or marries.

Has anyone read "India: A Wounded Civilization"? There's this great section where he meets a white Professor from the US and his upper-class Indian wife. I think his assessment still rings true today.

I don't doubt the whole 'u can't help who you fall in love with' thing, but you have to recognize that these decisions often are tied very closely to the narrative we have going on in our heads about how our lives are taking shape.

Anyways, none of this should come as a surprise. Indians would sell their souls for acceptance by mainstream white society in this country, so stroking white dicks doesn't seem like that big a deal.

I really could not care who this girl or any other brown girl dates, sleeps with, or marries.

but you think it reasonable to pass summary judgment on all women who don't date within their own race, and consider that they "sold their souls to stroke white dicks".

it would be cartoonish if it weren't so poisonous.

people with such a manichaean view of white-colored interaction should just emancipate themselves by going off to liberia.

141 · Krish**** said

Indians would sell their souls for acceptance by mainstream white society in this country, so stroking white dicks doesn't seem like that big a deal.

I know a bunch of guju girls who are like that.