Sorry to hear about the incident, I can never imagine how it feels to be mocked in the country you were born I wasn’t born here but things like this have happened in the past and they just leave a bad taste. Thankfully I live in New York City so the frequency is much lower and yes the bat is great idea :)

Still, it might be prudent to keep a bat around.

C'mon you can do better than that. Be a part of the militia as per the second amendment.

they just leave a bad taste

That's just it. It wasn't a big deal, I'm used to it. I posted the story because I've noticed some naivite amongst some readers who seem to assume that all of America is like NJ or big city CA, and it's simply not. There's a level of overt racism that is present on a regular basis.

Be a part of the militia as per the second amendment.

A cop suggested that to me when I moved in. It's pretty easy to own a gun in the midwest, if you live outside of a major city. Still, this was the first incident in my home. Things happen far more frequently when I am out and about, either on foot or in the car (most often when I'm on foot and exposed). Given that I've been pulled over for driving while brown before, a firearm in my car would probably be a step in the wrong direction.

Try to get them on video, I know its easier said than done. Maybe set the bait by sitting outside with some turbanned friends. Get the police involved. If they are 18 or over be sure to post online and divulge their names & addresses. Destroy their economic futures and shame their parents. No amount of outreach or community service/lecture at a gurdwara is going to turn these trogs....scorched earth is the way to go

I agree with the second amendment comment. You never know. Emboldened by this little escapade, they may try something more serious next time. Sorry you had to go through this.

Instead of cussing them out, you should have just ignored them and not given them the satisfaction of seeing you get upset.

Instead of cussing them out, you should have just ignored them and not given them the satisfaction of seeing you get upset.

After how many years of vipassna was Ennis supposed to let this violation pass without comment? They invaded his space. I am sure the law wouldn't agree but from a moral perspective he would have been fully justified responding with non-lethal force. Time to bury Gandhi, the man was the 20th century's greatest fraud (i.e. he was simply around when Brits decided to give India independence)

6 · alpha said

Instead of cussing them out, you should have just ignored them and not given them the satisfaction of seeing you get upset.

Whether you are in NYC or not, it can happen anywhere in the U.S. My brother (who is a turbanned Sikh) and I had an incident in New Brunswick, NJ last summer. I went to Rutgers-New Brunswick for college and lived there for 3 years. It's not only a diverse area, there is a strong Sikh presence on campus. But one night last summer, right by the train station, 3 guys came down the steps and decided to hurl insults at my brother as we walked by. It was actually a group of 8 to 10 of us, but they didn't care. It shook me up, not because it's never happened before, but because I would have never happened somewhere I considered a comfort-zone or safe-place.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that Ennis. It's so lame.

Do you live in Texas by any chance? If so, you could always take the Joe Horn approach and shoot them to protect your property :D

Although I do agree with the posters who say that ahimsa isn't the best solution in cases like these

Shalu, I agree that with bullies you should fight back. But this is a completely different situation. You can't fight back because they've run away.

louiecypher, cut out the Gandhi crap. Cussing is useless. You're an idiot if you think that is going to deter them in the future.

I've started to cuss out racists because I think they're expecting me to take it and look humiliated and dejected. They're not expecting me to get pissed off, they usually back down at that point.

Recently, my friend (turbanned Sikh) had his car vandalised and some white college kids broke into his apartment and stole his PS3 and Wii. We live in a 'safe' college town in the midwest so these sort of crimes are very, very rare. It was probably a hate crime.... but why oh why, did these silly white kids have to steal his PS3 and Wii??! No more Fifa 07, GTA4 with Raj (name changed) :((((((( *weep*

11 · alpha said

Shalu, I agree that with bullies you should fight back. But this is a completely different situation. You can't fight back because they've run away.

But if they've run away, they won't notice if Ennis was upset, right? So then did you tell him to ignore them and not give them the satisfaction of seeing him upset?

12 · Ennis said

I've started to cuss out racists because I think they're expecting me to take it and look humiliated and dejected.

Been true in my experience too! Not sure of the mindset/psychology of the offenders in such cases, but showing a will to fight back helps.

On a side note, I find college white kids and affulent whites to be the least racist and open minded (regardless of their location). Hispanics and African-Americans are the most racist people in Amreeka, no doubt.

I've started to cuss out racists because I think they're expecting me to take it and look humiliated and dejected. They're not expecting me to get pissed off, they usually back down at that point.

You know I am all for this, of course. When you get that gun, let me know, so we can hit the range together.

TheBrownChamp: i find that Latinos and blacks are more open about their views, but that many college going/affluent whites are just as racist, only they know how to come across as PC. i personally think that immigrants tend to be the most racis; just look at Indians :D

But if they've run away, they won't notice if Ennis was upset, right? So then did you tell him to ignore them and not give them the satisfaction of seeing him upset?

Ummm. If they run away, and you yell out curses to them, they will hear you. D'uh.

BrownChamp,

Who do you think the racial stereotypes ultimately come from? I understand that you might really have had those experiences, but that generalization totally does not jibe w my reality.

Did you call the cops? Oh, and I do like the idea of keeping a bat handy. Never know when it might come in handy.

Did you call the cops? Oh, and I do like the idea of keeping a bat handy. Never know when it might come in handy.

Naw, they have their hands full with meth-heads. If I had felt threatened or menaced, I might have, but this was just being yelled at in my apartment.

It's not a big deal, but I'm sharing it because I think it's easy to forget that this is part of the background noise of life in parts of America.

Well, there are always going to be people who don't like you. My approach is to ignore them.

But, always look after your safety too. Buy yourself a shotgun, it will come handy if somebody decides to physically attack you.

Talwar

louiecypher

After how many years of vipassna was Ennis supposed to let this violation pass without comment? They invaded his space. I am sure the law wouldn't agree but from a moral perspective he would have been fully justified responding with non-lethal force

That is not true. Verbal insults call for verbal replies, only physical attacks morally justify physical replies.

Time to bury Gandhi, the man was the 20th century's greatest fraud (i.e. he was simply around when Brits decided to give India independence)

ROFLMAO I agree with you there, indeed I used almost the same words to describe 'Bapu'(LOL) in 'Leaving Uganda' thread just a couple days ago. It was actually Subash Chandra Bose, Azad Hind Fauj and naval mutineers who won Independence for India.

On a side note, I find college white kids and affulent whites to be the least racist and open minded (regardless of their location). Hispanics and African-Americans are the most racist people in Amreeka, no doubt.

As was said by another commenter, I think the issue is not that one group is "less racist" than the other, but that some groups are more comfortable discussing their prejudices. In my experience, desis can be quite racist when in the company of each other.

Ennis,
Were they kids from you apt complex? Is it gated ? Are there a lot of desis in your complex? Was it similar to the prank where kids run around ringing(shouting) every doorbell(desi apt) . Just wondering whether they were breaking some more laws.

This safety-in-numbers-so-lets-be-obnoxious behavior is prevalent even here in so. cal. I hope they grow out of it. Quickly.

Two white teenagers (in this town I’ve only encountered racist hostility from white folks, but that’s a matter of a whole nother post) had snuck up to my open windows, yelled, and run away. I hadn’t seen them because my lights were on and it was dark outside.

You say you didn't see them yet you state their ' white ' race as a fact. I respect you as a blogger but I have always been dubious of your ' white ' racism claims in the Midwest. Very improbable. Your claims of such brazen white racism square neither with my ten-year experience in this country nor with that of most other browns, particularly in the Midwest Such name calling and cussing usually comes from black kids. A preponderance of anecdotes support this un-PC assertion.

And yes I have been waiting for that ' whole another post ' for quite sometime now because you always bring up such white racism you encounter in the Midwest but never provide the details.I hope you aren't just getting offended by a seven year old white girl staring at your turban nonstop.

Those teenaged skinhead/kkk/idiot punks or whatever they were, are complete losers. Unfortunately, you never know if they are armed with their daddy's handgun or whatever. A baseball bat or knife would not be much of a challenge for those idiots if they are armed and decided to attack. But you make a good point as a brown individual, you might not want to be caught with firearms, even if it is legal and registered etc. These skinhead types act on impulses and are not known for being rational. Good luck to you and hope no more of these dumba&&es come your way (or for any of us for that matter).

I think as unemployment grows, basic necessities get more and more expensive, you will see a rise in racism and xenophobia. Some misguided individuals need a scapegoat to blame for the economic mess courtesy of the Bush administration. I am not sure if there will be a complete economic meltdown, but things don't look too rosy.

Another vote here in favor of concealed carry, especially in light of the recent SCOTUS decision on the 2nd amendment. I come from a very stereotypically traditional South Indian Hindu vegetarian, etc, etc, family. Many members of my family carry handguns, mom included, although we haven't convinced dad to do so yet. Its one of the things that makes this country great.

And to Ennis, who's worried about getting caught driving with a handgun: Check your state's laws. As long as you're legal and have the proper paperwork, you're safe.

You say you didn't see them yet you state their ' white ' race as a fact. I respect you as a blogger but I have always been dubious of your ' white ' racism claims in the Midwest. Very improbable. Your claims of such brazen white racism square neither with my ten-year experience in this country nor with that of most other browns, particularly in the Midwest Such name calling and cussing usually comes from black kids. A preponderance of anecdotes support this un-PC assertion.

I didn't see their faces up close, but they had turned their heads towards me as I came to the window and they ran away. And out here, all of my incidents have been with whites. In New York City growing up, things were different.

And yes I have been waiting for that ' whole another post ' for quite sometime now because you always bring up such white racism you encounter in the Midwest but never provide the details.I hope you aren't just getting offended by a seven year old white girl staring at your turban nonstop.

Ha! No, sadly, it's far worse than that. It's curses and epithets and threats. The incident last night was almost too minor to mention, as was the story in Chicago of the older white man coming up to me and calling me a "Fucking terrorist" as he walked by. No, the stuff that gets me is the stuff which makes me feel physically insecure, like the kids discussing how they were going to knock my turban off, or the youths in cars when I'm on foot, etc.

I'm a New Yorker. You can't get a rise out of me by calling me a punk.

Were they kids from you apt complex? Is it gated ? Are there a lot of desis in your complex? Was it similar to the prank where kids run around ringing(shouting) every doorbell(desi apt) . Just wondering whether they were breaking some more laws.

These were the exterior windows which faced out onto a public thoroughfare. No other desis in my complex. The entire community is pretty damned white, as is much of the midwest out of the major cities and accompanying suburbs / college towns.

And to Ennis, who's worried about getting caught driving with a handgun: Check your state's laws. As long as you're legal and have the proper paperwork, you're safe.

Cops get jumpy when they see a gun. Amadou Diallo got shot for holding a wallet, I'd rather not push my chances especially when I've been stopped for DWB already. Thus far the cops have been pretty courteous, but I'd rather not have them feel threatened.

you know what racist folks really don't like being called?... racist. (or ignorants, an ignorant). try it. that truly pisses them off.

Ennis,
That is really horrible that you had to experience this!
On the other hand, the only racial incident I've experienced in the past five years is a bunch of little black kids throwing stones at me--I used some Anglo-Saxon epithets to curse out their caregiver (mother?) and moved on.
It is deeply disturbing to be treated this way.

Cops get jumpy when they see a gun. Amadou Diallo got shot for holding a wallet, I'd rather not push my chances especially when I've been stopped for DWB already. Thus far the cops have been pretty courteous, but I'd rather not have them feel threatened.

If you have a state issued concealed permit, that information is pulled up when the cops run your plates. In some ways cops feel better knowing the person has already had a background check run by having a legit permit.

Try to get them on video, I know its easier said than done. Maybe set the bait by sitting outside with some turbanned friends. Get the police involved. If they are 18 or over be sure to post online and divulge their names & addresses. Destroy their economic futures and shame their parents.

Good idea.

Be outside, let them see you, go in, have window open and webcam/cellcam ready.

Ennis, That is really horrible that you had to experience this! On the other hand, the only racial incident I've experienced in the past five years is a bunch of little black kids throwing stones at me--I used some Anglo-Saxon epithets to curse out their caregiver (mother?) and moved on. It is deeply disturbing to be treated this way.

OK, this disturbs me, why did you curse out their mother/caregiver?

OK, this disturbs me, why did you curse out their mother/caregiver?

B/c she was responsible for the kids throwing stones at me?! If she isn't, who is? They were pretty young, young enough that I wouldn't hit them.
What am I missing here?

Do you know how hard it is to control just one child, what to speak of two or three or four???

Give the woman a break!

Unless she ordered them to stone you, she is not at fault.

Unless she ordered them to stone you, she is not at fault.

Why are they throwing rocks at me, and saying nasty things, unless she has taught them this, or at least condoned it? The fish rots from the head!

You should have yelled back you are Hindu, and not a terrorist. You must wear your markers on your sleeve. We shouldn't feel guilty about Bin Laden.

Why are they throwing rocks at me, and saying nasty things, unless she has taught them this, or at least condoned it? The fish rots from the head!

So you think they saw their mom throwing rocks at and calling people names???

Come on! Kids are mean, in general. They learn alot of sh*t in school.

You should have yelled back you are Hindu, and not a terrorist. You must wear your markers on your sleeve. We shouldn't feel guilty about Bin Laden.

My white friends love me b/c I'm "solid" on the anti-terror front, don't you worry about me!

So you think they saw their mom throwing rocks at and calling people names???

Come on!

Nobody in my family throws stones at other people b/c they look different, and if they did do that, they would be shunned. So, yes, we are better than the kids (and their mother) throwing rocks at me.

You say you didn't see them yet you state their ' white ' race as a fact. I respect you as a blogger but I have always been dubious of your ' white ' racism claims in the Midwest. Very improbable. Your claims of such brazen white racism square neither with my ten-year experience in this country nor with that of most other browns, particularly in the Midwest Such name calling and cussing usually comes from black kids. A preponderance of anecdotes support this un-PC assertion.

And yes I have been waiting for that ' whole another post ' for quite sometime now because you always bring up such white racism you encounter in the Midwest but never provide the details. I hope you aren't just getting offended by a seven year old white girl staring at your turban nonstop.

wow ennis - in comment 30, i'm surprised by your restraint.

ping ping doesn't believe this happens, especally from white people? he says this, because even though i'm guessing he's not a sikh or a sardar, he hasn't seen it? as another sardar in the midwest, i dare him to walk in a sardar's shoes for a month and then attempt to type the same post with a straight face. as ennis has shared but one anecdote, let me elaborate.

admittedly, things have gotten FAR better in the last 2-3 years than they were immediately after 9/11, but just two weeks ago, i was repeatedly accosted as "bin laden" by a bunch of drunk white guys on the walk home from a downtown restaurant in a major midwest city...and i was walking with 2 rather burly white guys. that was maybe the 5th or 6th such incident this year.

In the 3 years after 9/11, i couldn't even keep track of all the verbal assaults, threats, indirect comments, hostile stares and lack of service every night i went out on the town. i do vividly remember the time an ENTIRE fraternity house and their guests (all white kids) threw empty beer cans and trash at me and chanted "f*ck you, bin laden" on my walk home from a football game; later that night being singled out of a very large crowd of revelers (it was a very significant football victory) by a lone riot police who pushed his way through teh crowd and blasted me in the face with pepper spray and then my two friends who protested ignoring everyone else (he was decked out in gear, didn't know if he was white, but probably); getting kicked out of a bar after a group of other patrons objected to my presence; the time a hot blonde girl i was talking to at a bar was handed a napkin by a group of white guys reading "REWARD: $25 Million;" the time i was denied a summer sales job at a small, white managed company because my appearance "wouldn't go over well with customers" (i'm a libertarian, and even though i was furious, chose not to take any legal action); being punched in the face, accompanied by "bin laden" slurs for a ridiculously slight indiscretion(this time, by a black guy); being kicked out of a midwest city's traffic courtroom for wearing a turban by an old and hostile white judge despite my pleas that it was religious attire and that i was respectfully wearing a suit unlike everyone else in the room (this resulted in my complaint and disciplinary action against the judge); being twice pulled over by cops for going 2 mph over the speed limit and watching in my side view mirrors as white cops approached my car with their hands on their holsters (resulting in mere warnings, thankfully, especially since i had target shooting rifles and pistols in my trunk both times - if they found those, i might be in guantanamo). if i think harder, i'm sure i could think of more incidents - oh yea, getting hit in the back of the head by a full coke can thrown from a car driving by (thankfully i was wearing my turban, which padded my head), my dad's practice's glass front door getting shot out twice by a shotgun in an almost entirely white, midwest town. like i said, i could think of more and more, but it's hard to even remember them all. honestly, unless an incident was very severe, i didn't even get worked up - it wasn't worth it. my friends always did though, as they were often in disbelief (except for my close friends, who witnessed this stuff regularly).

comment 43 continued...

in the last 2-3 years, as i've attended professional school and lived in a larger midwest city, the incidents are far less frequent, but still take place. there are comments or the middle finger from people driving by, or comments made by drunk bar goers. but, what concerns me most is the fact that i have to "win over" recruiters at major companies/firms with which i interview in an industry that is very white and insular. i detect some discomfort from about a quarter of them, and have to drop a line about liking to go to happy hour with coworkers to ease any tension and give them an impression that i'm totally normal. also, i've managed to befriend many people at my school, some whom were comfortable enough to share that they were initially wary of me (because of my appearance and perceived fundamentalism) before they heard of my "coolness" from other students (small body) and got to know me. [i loved their honesty because it was revealing and because i've always strived to win over individuals one at a time.]

finally, because ping ping mentioned it, what might be most annoying is not the little white girl who might stare at you on the street - it's the little white girl's mom who grabs her kid and tries to shelter her and offers a wary stare after she catches sight of me, who's either standing next to or approaching. as far as black people are concerned, i've gotten a fair amount of flak from them in the past- they tend to be a lot more expressive or vocal. but at the same time, while incidents with white people have persisted, incidents with black people have tapered off big time - as if the idea of a commonality of oppression has finally been realized. or maybe, to stereotype broadly, they like bhangra (in case you're humorless, i'm joking). but to acknowledge that it happens more frequently with white people isn't to dismiss that it happens with black folks too.

my reaction to all this? if i have a talent, it's running my mouth and making people feel dumb. i can't help but wonder what i would have done if i wasn't fluent in english or didn't sound like a red neck. first, there's the shock that i speak english at all, and then it's the content. there are times when i might reason, but normally a statement like "hey bin laden, go home!" might earn a "nah, brah. how bout i go to your trailer and plug your mom in her behind (but more explicit)" it's a lot funner. often, this will make peeps feel like idiots in front of their friends, though sometimes, things escalate. it's the burden of having a toweled hot-head, i suppose.

so basically ping ping, you are an idiot and don't really know what you're talking about. i'm actually wary or posting this long, personal comment in response to yours because your thoughts are so unbelievably ignorant and i don't want to justify them with a reaction. but, in the event there are others who might not understand what many midwestern sikhs have gone through, i must...especially since i've discovered that often our west coast and east coast sardar brethren can hardly believe how bad it truly was, and how bad it can still be.

Sim -

that's far worse than I've faced, but I also didn't move to the midwest until somewhat recently, after the post 9/11 racism had cooled off. I had only lived on the coasts until then.

as for why I was restrained with ping ping ... his disbelief isn't worth getting worked up over. I know what I've seen. If somebody wants to disbelieve me, they can go ahead and do so. I don't tell these stories to attract pity, just to help people understand what goes on. It's only worth talking to people who have an open mind.

Ennis-

things are far far better. the most severe incidents i experienced occurred in the 2, maybe 3, years after 9/11. but, sentiments persist. also, i go out quite a bit, and thus encounter many drunk people who are more inclined to share their ignorant 2 cents. i'm also average sized. having spoken to other sikh/sardar friends, if they don't go out much, they're obviously not exposed to overt sentiments, and if they're bigger dudes, people are less inclined to run their mouths.

just one additional thought - despite all this stuff (and a fair amount of racism/xenophobia before 9/11), my life is pretty normal. the vast majority of midwesterners are great, and i don't dwell on this stuff at all. i doubt most of the people i know are even aware that sikhs (or me) experience[d] such hostilities since it wouldn't naturally occur to them and i rarely mention it happens (unless relevant). just gotta keep our heads up and fight the good fight. and cuss out dumba**es we encounter.

Sad to read about what you guys have to put up with. Can we really call this racism? It sounds more like turbanism. Not that there's any justification for that.

So Sim is saying these are not just turban legends :-) In my 8 years in the Bay Area, I have been lucky not to have faced any overt hostility, racial or otherwise. Maybe there have been covert ones, but (fortunately) I have perhaps been too dense to detect those. Edwards was right about the two America's.

*muses aloud*

Ennis, that's really rough. And Sim, I can't even imagine what your experiences was like, or what it was to like to live in post 9-11 USA. I haven't been discriminated much, or hardly have experienced it, that I know of, but there was a time that I was turned away for a job application I suspect because of my race. And in highschool there were these kids who thought it was trendy to be right wing populists, but I mostly made fun of them. They were cowards because they would always claim in company that they 'had nothing against foreigners' but if they were alone with foreigners they would call them names. I thought it was pretty stupid, because at least have the guts to stand up for your beliefs! And they were a bit bizarre as well because they would wear Doc Martens and clothing symbolizing racism/white power(like Lonsdale, though I'm sure if they actually wore shirts proclaiming white power they school would've suspended them pretty fast) but then own DVDs of Jorgen Raymann(comedian originally from Suriname) and Najib Amhali(Dutch=Moroccan comedian). I shall never understand people!

39 · Gujju said

You should have yelled back you are Hindu, and not a terrorist. You must wear your markers on your sleeve. We shouldn't feel guilty about Bin Laden.

47 · Seahawks fan said

Sad to read about what you guys have to put up with. Can we really call this racism? It sounds more like turbanism. Not that there's any justification for that.

Woo! Flashback!

I'm not Sikh and don't have a turban, but I do have a beard. I've lost count of the number of people (all races and ethnicities, desis included) who have thought I was Muslim just because I was brown and bearded. Once I was walking around with a group of other desis, when this group of kids spots us from across the street, crosses over, and the loudest of the lot starts asking "Hey! You guys Muslim?". No cusses, just a persistent, strident, and unnecessary query about religious practices. They went away a couple of blocks later, but the people I was with specifically asked me not to walk front and center, since "my beard made everyone look Muslim". (For purposes of demographic information, all the desis were non-Muslim and DBD (including me), and all except me were beard-free. The kids were African-American, of high-school age or younger, all dressed like they had families (i.e., not street kids).)

Anyway, my point to Seahawks Fan is that such attacks need not be targeted specifically at turbans, and that when one of us is attacked either for being turbanned or Muslim or whatever, the attacker generally doesn't know or care much for specifics beyond "brown".

In turn, this implies that defenses like what Gujju suggested ("Hey I may be brown but I'm Hindu") are terrible at all levels (unless it was an attempt at irony and my irony detector was broken).

Score card for those of you following along at home:

Pingpong - sympathetic
Pingping - unsympathetic

I am not surprised by Ennis's experience.

When I lived in Los Angeles, I experienced very little racism and it was mostly people staring at me sullenly in bars post-9/11. I would just stare back and basically nothing would happen.

But when I lived in Georgia last year it was an entirely different story. I wear an Anaheim Angels cap at my store and a couple of people have asked 'oh why are you wearing an Al Queda cap?' snidely all cuz of an "A" on the cap. Thats a bit nicer than asking me "how the fuck did I get to this country?".

The people in south are so blatantly racist that it blows my mind even now. I think it is because they are a majority and do not fear retribution unlike in California.

To those who advocate non-violence here -
Gandhi-ahimsa never works with anyone and it will only encourage young kids to cause damage to you and then MAYBE regret it a few years later. Does no good to anyone. The kid is saddled with Post-Abuse-Traumatic-Syndrome and you suffer from Coward-Syndrome.

Speaking of turbans, I found this on another site:

Study suggests "turban effect" as a source of Islamophobia
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=11a895ab-c168-48aa-b3a5-5d041d241560

Anyway, my point to Seahawks Fan is that such attacks need not be targeted specifically at turbans, and that when one of us is attacked either for being turbanned or Muslim or whatever, the attacker generally doesn't know or care much for specifics beyond "brown".

Muslims and Sikhs have obviously taken the brunt of the 911 backlash, but others have also been affected. So your point is valid. However, I don't think most of us "browns" really have an appreciation for what Ennis, sim and others have to endure. I know I've never been called "Bin Laden" or a "f-ing terrorist."

Muslims and Sikhs have obviously taken the brunt of the 911 backlash, but others have also been affected. So your point is valid. However, I don't think most of us "browns" really have an appreciation for what Ennis, sim and others have to endure. I know I've never been called "Bin Laden" or a "f-ing terrorist."

I agree about the point of turbaned Sikhs. But you should have specified bearded skull cap wearing/South Asian Muslim men. I as a Hindu get picked out for "random" searches by the TSA far more than clean shaven Muslim colleagues from the Levant.

I agree about the point of turbaned Sikhs. But you should have specified bearded skull cap wearing/South Asian Muslim men. I as a Hindu get picked out for "random" searches by the TSA far more than clean shaven Muslim colleagues from the Levant.

as we share expereinces - interesting anecdote that juxtaposes my above experiences: as a sikh wearing a turban, a stocking hat or baseball hat (all with my dense but neat beard), i've flown at least a couple dozen times since 9/11, and have been picked out by TSA only once - late last year. and even then, the tsa agents conducing the search (while extremely thorough, flipping through the books in my carry-on, emptying my wallet) were pretty cool and joked with me a bit. i'm not sure how i've gotten so little attention in that regard when other sikhs frequently do, but i suspect it has to do with how i carry myself. i smile, make sure to follow all the rules, and if i have a chance, say something to agents so they hear my total and complete non-accent and slight twang. i also make a point to seem totally relaxed (if not apathetic) and dress like an average young professional/student and sometimes wear college gear. on a couple occasions, they've patted down my turban or hat (with my permission), but like i said, only once have i been taken aside and thoroughly searched.

boarding the plane is another question. things have gotten much better, but on southwest with its self seating, i was often the last person anyone sat next to. as i walk down aisles, the stares and apprehension are obvious (although indian uncles and aunties seem to love my presence and offer a smile). so to put people around me at ease when i'm seated, i'll flip open my cell phone and call a buddy, so they hear that i speak and joke like any of them. it's been less necessary of late, but, i do it anyways...might as well.

These kids need to be smacked, they will grow up and continue to have these stupid ideas. And a cricket bat is more appropriate to beat these racist morons.

Yikes, Ennis, that's terrible!

Here in Vancouver things are alittle different.

Vancouver police announced on Friday that three Indo-Canadian men who had allegedly attacked a gay man in the 1600-block of Davie Street on May 2 have turned themselves in to police after Tuesday’s public appeal to help identify them.

But police now say “early indications are that the assault appears to have been random and not a hate crime.�

Surveillance camera footage from an area Mac’s Store showed the three men purchasing eggs at about 1 a.m. Minutes later, a man walking eastbound on Davie was pelted with eggs by three men, who also threw a beer bottle at him, which missed its intended target.

A police spokesperson said the victim recalls the men yelling at him, but not what they were saying. He told police they were all Indo-Canadian, 18 to 20 years old.

Police said: “Because of the type of attack and where it happened and the fact that the victim is openly gay, investigators are looking into whether it was a hate crime.

“The man targeted in the attack was not physically injured, but was obviously traumatized.�

And another gangs of our young men doing there thing north of the border

http://www.voiceonline.com/voice/080503/headline2.php

The sad thing is that both this group and the post before were young people who came from punjabi families and a good chance they were sikh's

The sad thing is that both this group and the post before were young people who came from punjabi families and a good chance they were sikh's

The come from sikh familes, I get that info from a 2nd cousin of mine who's a cop.

39 · Gujju said

Hindu

Despite the Hindu Marriage Act of 1955, Sikhs are not Hindoos my Gujju fiend.

Sorry for what you guys go through. I grew up wearing a juda and a turban in Texas but that was pre-911. Times like this I feel some survivor guilt for what my dad and uncles and brothers go through.

39 · Gujju said

You should have yelled back you are Hindu, and not a terrorist. You must wear your markers on your sleeve.

Doh! I meant to quote this whole bit. And why would a bunch of racist punks be scared of Sharpies, anyway?

"Come back here! I'm going to draw a moustache on your face." (A Hitler stache, of course.)

Don't wear your turban or other religious symbols to court in Connecticut!

Sikh Arrested and Turban Snatched by State Marshals in Connecticut Courthouse.
http://www.sikhnet.com/daily-news/sikh-arrested-and-turban-snatched-state-marshals-connecticut-courthouse

16 · TheBrownChamp said

On a side note, I find college white kids and affulent whites to be the least racist and open minded (regardless of their location). Hispanics and African-Americans are the most racist people in Amreeka, no doubt.

Your kidding right? I think that you probably don't like poor whites, Blacks or Latinos. Nice way to generalize there.

I am so glad that you posted the posts that you did SIMS. I too am awed by Ennis' restraint. Ping Pong you are freakin' delusional. I cannot believe how warped your perception of racism in America is! I hope that SIMS’ post helps you think through your ideas a little more...

SIMS and Ennis: Just reading your posts exhausted me. It is remarkable how much energy and efforts we have to expend just to survive our day to day encounters of the racist kind (explicit or subtle). it is the continuous strategizing : I should not use my real name when I campaign for said political candidate, I should talk on the cell real loud to assure others that I am American –hence “normal” enough to sit with, I should smile real broad when going through airport security, the list continues. F**K!!!

That saddest part of this shiz, is that it all eventually gets normalized. The strategies to combat racist attitudes become part of our arsenal and we pull these out like a pro without thinking twice about it.

And then you begin to tell yourself : its not too bad…

66 · serenityha said

I am so glad that you posted the posts that you did SIMS. I too am awed by Ennis' restraint. Ping Pong you are freakin' delusional. I cannot believe how warped your perception of racism in America is! I hope that SIMS’ post helps you think through your ideas a little more...

That fucking does it. I've been good so far, but it's time to say: Ping Ping, change your fucking handle. I was here first, I don't deserve to be saddled with your delusions, I've got better things to do than sit and correct people about mistaken identity all day long, and you're poisoning my reputation for anyone searching Google for pingpong and sepiamutiny. Go find someone else's character to assassinate.

(Open to suggestions from SM Intern about compromises).

I've lost count of the number of people (all races and ethnicities, desis included) who have thought I was Muslim just because I was brown and bearded.

I was born Hindu, am not religious in the least, and recently grew a fairly lush beard, mostly out of persistent inaction on the shaving front. Completely coincidentally, I was badgered by this drunk late teens/early 20s guy about my being Hare Krishna and constantly telling me Namaste. Not in the overly earnest way of some drunks, but more in a heckling manner. I got a bit irritated, and turned back and yelled "I am Muslim! Don't ever dare call me an infidel again!" That got him right nervous, and he apologized profusely before walking away as fast as he could.

Own it, people!

I was badgered by this drunk late teens/early 20s guy about my being Hare Krishna

Aren't Hare Krishnas clean-shaven and shaven-headed except for a small tuft? I think the drunk may have confused Hare Krishnas with the lesser known Hairy Krishnas.

A Pakistani guy I know used to be clean-shaven and then he grew a beard, for no symbolic reason. His other Pakistani friends started addressing him as "Maulvi"!

Regarding Seahawk Fan's earlier point about brown vs turban, I agree. I wasn't trying to say that turbanned people get attacked less; I was cautioning against thinking that attacks are solely because of the turban, and that attackers are usually ignorant enough that conflation of turbans and beards and skin color all happen, if to varying extents.

Here's a large-scale example from 6 years back: the music video for the Eminem song "Without Me" shows Bin Laden talking in a Devanagari-based language (4:10 onwards). Keep in mind this is not one guy's ignorance. The music video had to be made by an entire team and greenlit by management, apparently none of whom either knew or cared about why a Saudi-born Arabic-speaker would prefer Devanagari.

First things first - sorry about these ignorant kids. That's what they are is ignorant kids. I know that does not make the sting of the insults hurt any less but hopefully in time these kids will mature and learn from their mistakes. One can only hope.

Taking the high road is always easier said then done. Whether it's getting honked at for waiting too long at a red light that has turned green or getting cut off on the highway by a cellphone talking soccer mom in an SUV, it's hard not to resist the temptation to curse the at the Mfers. It would be nice if we all drove bumper cars. I would recommend a cricket bat over a baseball bat as it would probably do more damage and would make for a more interesting story (j/k).

Racism stems from ignorance, fear, and insecurity. All nice liberal psycho babel to try and explain and understand these D-bags, but deep down they feel threatened and do not feel secure in their own frame of reference so they pick on what they perceive as a weaker element in order to make themselves feel better. Much like I yell at a nurse who probably does not deserve it for paging me when I'm tired or a patient is going south. I'm jerk with a good heart but a jerk nonetheless. In any event I probably said things that were racist and insensitive growing up as a teenager but hopefully I've learned a thing or two from college, grad school, etc.

White people can be dicks no doubt, but it's really a matter of a lack of intelligence. To the average Johnny Sixpack (as my father-in-law's scotch loving friend refers to dumb white guys) brown skin + turban or beard = muslim = terrorist since Bin Laden wore something on his head and had a beard. "I can't shoot Bin Laden so I'm going to attack this Sikh." is the thought process of these guys. Still I think you can find examples that are not exclusively white, whether it is Hispanics and Blacks not holding favorable opinions of one another or white people subscribing to the only white is right philosophy.

IMHO racism is not an exclusively American vice, nor is it limited to the so-called ignorant South and Midwest. You can find it even in enlightened places like NY and San Francisco. I don't have the same frame of reference as many of the people posting on this site so I don't want to insult you guys by saying that I've been the victim of racism but I do know how uncomfortable a disapproving stares and persistent gawking at your "foreign" appearance or the contrast of my pale white skin next to my wife's brown skin, can be.

Anyway sorry that shit like this still goes on in America. I don't think we'll ever get to the point where were all holding a Coke and singing songs together but hopefully things will get better. America is still a young country and much like these kids we have some growing up to do.

One love,

Chris

Ennis,,
It would be wise to get a hand-gun. Go to the local range and practice. Unless you have a conceal-carry permit, when driving or transporting a firearm, the ammo or the handgun must be kept in the trunk and the other part in the vehicle.

Find out about the laws in your state regarding handgun ownership.

I lived in Virginia and now I am in West Virginia. We have a gun culture in these two states. I have three, a high powered rifle 30-06 bolt action with a scope and bi-pod, a 12-gauge pump shotgun, and a 45-auto S&W hand gun.

I am not saying that you should make it a hobby like I, but you should get one that you are comfortable with, depending on the the size of your hand. My choice would be a 1911 style 45-Auto or a 45 revolver.

The cops treat you with respect when you have a legal handgun. I know from experince. Do not keep it in the seat next to you

come to the nw suburbs of Chicago. I hear these thrown at me at a good rate!!

Oh my goodness that's really scary I mean your home is supposed to be your sanctuary a place of privacy and freedom. I think it sucks that those teenagers were causing this kind of trouble. Is it possible to go to landlord of the building or something? Can anything be done?

Interesting. Just to throw in my two cents...I went to a 95% white school in New York City and a week after I began attending, 9/11 happened. Oh those were great times. I only went to that school because my parents wanted me to go "somewhere nice" (edit:majority white school lol). After that I attended a school in the "ghetto" and I def had a better time. I hung out with all types of folks, from the gangbangers to Yu-gi-oh fanatics. I was really surprised when black kids called me a dirty arab, bin Laden, and a whole shabdkosh worth of racial epithets. I always keep the baseball bat and machete handy because I'd love to see the day when the NYPD will do anything. However, my other desi friends prefer cricket bats.

Couple of weeks ago: I was waiting for the bus to uni: two kids (age 10-12)started hassling me, it started with racial epithets, when I ignored them, it got worse to the point when they started throwing things (leaves and papers) at me. I did nothing, I just stood it out. I still am not sure if i should have cussed, bashed or nipple twisted them little obnoxious weeds. I felt bad for the entire week though. Then, I went n bought maself a brand new Ford Focus Zetec:

Aren't Hare Krishnas clean-shaven and shaven-headed except for a small tuft? I think the drunk may have confused Hare Krishnas with the lesser known Hairy Krishnas.

Most of the people who shout at you in ignorance will tend to be REALLY ignorant. Last summer my brother (turbanned and bearded) was being harassed by these 3 drunk guys. No matter that there were 10 of us with him, they felt the need to bother him. They kept calling him 'dothead'. Because that made any sense. I was like "uhhh is this 1987?" He wasn't wearing a bindi, and isn't a Hindu woman, but whatever. When they finally saw that making fun of his turban bothered him, that's what they kept at.

I had another wierd "dothead" incident. I was maybe 5 years old and the landlord's son was walking me home from school. Some guy pulls up in a car next to me and says "Is that dot a bullethole?" I wasn't wearing a bindi, wasn't speaking to anyone in any desi language, and I was FIVE. Even at 5 years old I thought the guy was a total idiot.

******

For my Sikh *and* Muslim brothers: check out this shirt.

76 · Fuerza Dulce said

For my Sikh *and* Muslim brothers: check out this shirt.

Many Sikhs have a distinct appearance but if that shirt applies to Muslims, wouldn't it also apply to any brown skinned, Middle Eastern looking person in general? They also have a Bhindransale shirt on the site lol.

"That was the end of the incident. It wasn’t a hate crime, I didn’t feel threatened or menaced, nothing really bad happened. It was just some high-spirited teenagers out for some racist fun. "

Good. That's one way to justify it. Afterall, is there another place for you to call home? Where will you go if you don't like it? Good to see that you are coping and trying to belong in the only place where you feel you belong.

It is nice to see so many guys actually agreeing that there is racism in america. I clearly remember a while back some guy wrote in lots of detail how he was told by several people on 9/12 in several midwest bars ' make no mistake, you are welcome here, you are one of us, we like your brown color' etc etc. in response to some posts which referred to some racism in NYC.

Heck, I live in a condo complex which is 80% desi, and the goras being only 1 or 2 in number. Rest is kallu (yeah I am using the non PC terms if you need a noose to hang me). Even in this complex, during membership meetings, there is a tendency for
1. the lone gora to speak as if he owns the place
2. the kallus to shout at the desis
3. the desis be all gandhis and sit quietly and accept everything, and later among themselves say 'let's be quiet, afterall when elephants walk dogs will bark' etc etc
4. the shouting kallus and ruler gora always gets there way as desis are afraid to speak and thos who do speak cannot even express themselves clearly
5. the desis to later say 'let's agree to the gora, afterall we live in their country'.

So trust me, gora racism and desi cowardice is not going to go away anytime soon. Desis will also find some way to justify it all.

oh btw there's also a black kid in our neighbourhood, maybe 5-6 years old, who stops his bike around desis walking in the evening, and shouts doofus, turbanhead etc. His favourite targets are desi parents. Did i tell you that this is an 80% desi community?

Desis have been long 'thinking about' telling his mom, but none have worked up the courage to face the 6 foot 200lb black elephant yet. Some of them comfort themselves by thinking that it was their new rayban glasses that made the kid say such things (as if the kid cares). Next they will say it was their shiny new iphone that made the kid say such things.

3. the desis be all gandhis and sit quietly and accept everything

haha. that's funny.

oh, and as you're aware of how docility doesn't really do much against bullies (even when they're 6 years old, which is fucking hysterical in it's own right) stick a broom stick in the kid's bike spokes as he rides by. i doubt he'll speak again.

68 · Middle name Husein said

I've lost count of the number of people (all races and ethnicities, desis included) who have thought I was Muslim just because I was brown and bearded.

I was born Hindu, am not religious in the least, and recently grew a fairly lush beard, mostly out of persistent inaction on the shaving front. I got a bit irritated, and turned back and yelled "I am Muslim! Don't ever dare call me an infidel again!" That got him right nervous, and he apologized profusely before walking away as fast as he could.

Wait so are you Hindu or Muslim? They were calling you Hindu and you replied "don't ever dare call me an infidel again". Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical of you to complain about the racist remarks they yelled out? Again, I couldn't quite get what religion you are from your post.