July 02, 2008
Another LAPD KillingIn Memoriam
First it was Micheal Cho, the Korean American recent college grad that was shot and killed in La Habra for holding a tire iron. Now, it’s 21 year old Pakistani-American Mohammad Usman Chaudhry. 
On Tuesday, March 25th, 2008 at 4a.m. in Hollywood, CA, Mohammad Usman Chaudhry, a highly functioning autistic person, was shot multiple times and killed by the LAPD (Hollywood Division) on the 1400 block of Curson Ave. Usman was still in handcuffs when examined by the coroner. Family members of Usman were not told about his death until 21 days after the killing. [SouthAsianNetwork]
According to police, Officer Joseph Cruz and his partner were patrolling the street when they saw a dark figure by an apartment complex. The officers approached to investigate and encountered Chaudhry lying behind some bushes. As Cruz was questioning Chaudhry, he pulled out a folding knife and stabbed Cruz on the left hand. Cruz pulled out his gun and fired several rounds at Chaudhry.[LATimes]
Los Angeles non-profit South Asian Network gathered together community members last week to hold a candlelit vigil to support Usman’s family and demand an end to police violence. About 200 community members came out in support.
“The vigil for Usman Chaudhry was really powerful to attend on many different levels,” says Preeti Sharma, a local South Asian organizer. “Seeing the family speak out and share their anger at the police brutality, hearing the stories of other young men of color shot recently by LAPD, and lastly having people in the community feel empowered enough to give their testimony was altogether an emotional and empowering experience.”
There’s something just simply so wrong with how this story has played out. Not only was the kid only 21 years old, but he was autistic. I’m sure the autism contributed to awkwardness when he was approached by LAPD at 4am. And even if he stabbed the police with a folding knife, why shoot several rounds at a HANDCUFFED man? CopWatch also notes that the LAPD ran Usman’s ID before he was killed, as well. So basically, evidence shows that LAPD had him in custody when he was murdered.
Many other people think this is an injustice too, and a blog memorial has been started in Usman’s memory. And his family and friends on it have questions as well and is heartbreaking to read…
1. Why was his family notified 21 days after his death when the officers had Usman in custody (in handcuffs) and had the chance to run his id? 2. Was his death not important because LAPD believed him to be homeless? Are homeless people not human beings? 3. Who do we call for help and trust when it is the police taking the lives of innocent people? [UsmanChaudhry21]
And there are even more questions on Usman’s brother’s blog here.
Here in Los Angeles, hearing stories about LAPD related killings are a dime a dozen, but hearing this story really rips my heart out because everything about it is so close to home. He’s the same age my sister. He might have been at the same Eid prayer I go to. He was shot by the same police department that is supposed to be protecting me. He isn’t the only youth to be killed by LAPD - in 2007 alone 13 “youth” were killed by LAPD. When will the brutality against our youth stop? What can we do to make the LAPD change their tragic ways?
taz on July 2, 2008 12:39 AM in In Memoriam · T·r·a·c·k·b·a·c·k address · Direct link · Email post
We have to wait for the investigation to play out. Notifying the family 21 days after the death is a big strike, as it allows evidence to deteriorate (and is pretty heartless to boot).
However, I'm skeptical of the claim that he was shot while handcuffed. I think it's more likely he was shot after he lunged with the knife, then was handcuffed after he was on the ground. AFAIK, this is standard procedure.
Pretty tragic all-around.
Much to his brother's credit, his blog is playing it straight so far.
moral of the story - don't jump a cop with a switchblade.
Racist, stupid, ignorant, watching their own backs, covering up ALL their fuck ups, selfish police.
“When people forget the love of power and realise the power of love, the world will know peace”
RIP. I hope your family finds justice.
Where are you getting this from? The coroner examined in handcuffs. But where does it say they shot him in handcuffs?
What were the circumstances behind the other 13 shootings? The police need to be taken to task when they are in the wrong but let's keep in mind that there are legitimate uses of force too
Doesn't the LAPD have a long troubled history of undue force especially against minorities, despite periodic lip service about cleaning up their act?
Police officers by and large seem to be improperly trained in handling or recognizing situations where the person they are dealing with is showing symptoms of a medical condition rather than being combative. There have been cases of people in diabetic seizure being tasered because the cops thought they were drunk.
3 · renon200 said
werd. there's no evidence so far that suggests he was shot after being handcuffed. to paraphrase Bill Cosby, what was he doing with the knife in his hand in the first place? before we all decide to play the racism card, I highly doubt Officer Joseph Cruz is a member of the Aryan Nations. Crying racism after a suspicious person stabs a police officer kills the credibility of actual racist police brutality complaints.
You are right. Coroner examined in handcuffs. I assumed that they would not handcuff a man that has already been shot and killed. But it could be very likely they shot the several rounds, killed him, and then handcuffed him.
I found that stat on one if Usman's blog and researched for an hour to fact check that before I gave up last night. When I find out, I'll update this post. Besides Cho and Chaudhry though, SAN's press release mentions a few other police brutality cases recently - Gonzalo Martinez (Downey), Roketi Su’e (Long Beach), and Michael Byoune (Inglewood).
6 · louiecypher said
i believe that the families of the victims of (in hindsight, unjustified) police shootings are frustrated because, AFAIK, if enough risk factors are present (low light, high-crime area, dark skin, perceived weapon/threatening motion) then any amount of force used afterwards (40-60 rounds, booting of prone suspect, etc.)is adjuged as reasonable under the circumstances by the court system. The officers may be disciplined internally, but they will never see the inside of a jail house (the very deterrent effect cited by Scalia-types as most effective in preventing violent crime).
that being said, the timeline hasn't been established yet and that is crucial.
LAPD is really a KLPD
Well said Johnny Valker. Police racism is real, but I think that invoking it every time a PoC is killed devalues the charge
Cops have a hard time dealing with those mentally different, and with autistics in particular. They have a set script, and autistics deviate from it without necessarily being a threat. In this case, since the kid had a knife, this made the situation even worse.
That said, we can still hold the police to their own standards. To wait 21 days before informing the family is inexcusable, especially since they knew who this guy was. Furthermore, if he was handcuffed and then shot, we're dealing with a situation that cannot be justified easily.
10 · taz said
Shooting someone doesn't automatically kill him. You can be injured and keep fighting. Maybe that's why they put the handcuffs on him. But I see, yes, your version makes much more sense. They killed him in handcuffs and left the handcuffs on for the medical examiner and possibly the whole world to see so they could go to jail for the rest of their lives.
While this is incredibly tragic there are certain truths to this case that can't be denied regarding the circumstances. He was hiding behind a bush at 4:00 am and armed and then attacked the officer while armed. Taking that into consideration it wouldn't have mattered what color or gender he was.
It's unfortunate that he was Autistic and perhaps unable to communicate and in such a stressed encounter I'm not sure I'd expect the officer to understand. And it is unfortunate but a police officer when attacked is almost alwyas taught to shoot, it doesn't matter what the attack is with.
I'd like to know who else failed this man if he was Autistic and out at 4 am unsupervised. And if he was deemed homeless it would take some kind of time lag in tracking down his family. What contributed to that being 21 days is not clear.
He mighta survived a taser. The anti-taser crowd always screams murder when taser-suppression is linked to death (usually not the taser but combination of cocaine+other drugs,over-exertion). I think tasers are gentler than bullets...
16 · Janeofalltrades said
It's unfortunate that he was Autistic and perhaps unable to communicate and in such a stressed encounter I'm not sure I'd expect the officer to understand. And it is unfortunate but a police officer when attacked is almost alwyas taught to shoot, it doesn't matter what the attack is with.
I'd like to know who else failed this man if he was Autistic and out at 4 am unsupervised. And if he was deemed homeless it would take some kind of time lag in tracking down his family. What contributed to that being 21 days is not clear.
Agreed. It's a very sad situation and understandably his family is upset, but where was his concerned family while he was homeless?
It is quite possible that he managed to stab the officer while he was handcuffed, which would explain why he was shot while handcuffed (if that's the case). A lot of people would be surprised at what some individuals are capable of even while handcuffed.
I think johnny valker writes op-eds for the la times.
"There still may be some racist cops, and a full probe into the May 1 meltdown should be expected to identify and remove from the department’s ranks any who saw that event as an opportunity to express their prejudices. But more than half of LAPD officers are now members of racial minority groups. The days of an all-white force patrolling a multiethnic Los Angeles are history."
Because we all know people of color don't discriminate.
That linked op-ed is a classic example of having it both ways, I look forward to more comments paraphrasing this line:
"It is at least as likely that the department, despite better diversity, improved training and a fading culture of bigotry, is still too quick to resort to force in the face of recalcitrance or flight."
I am amazed that people are willing to give the LAPD the benefit of the doubt despite a long history of institutional excess, with support from the very top extended to errant officers, despite platitudes to the contrary.
I wish his blog didn't have to register! He needs to get a hold of Stephen Yagman or Anthony Salerno in LA. They specialize in police brutality cases. I know from experience.
The hysteria of leftists with a soft spot for criminals is repugnant. LAPD is doing its best in a gang ridden city with a mayor who coddles illegal alien criminals.
Honestly I am torn by this issue because an autistic person was killed and his family didnt know about it for 21 days, but on the other hand a officer was doing his job by checking out a suspicious person and get's stabbed. This officer maybe has his own family that he was worried about never seeing them again and made sure he was going to see them again.
I cant blame the officer for doing what he did, if he did get stabbed. The mest up part is the 21 day period and that is just unacceptable and is a real issue of gross neglect and should be punished. If I could sue them I would and anyone saying other wise is either a coward or just didnt really like that family member that much.
Here is another issue. Why didnt the family check up on a autistic person for that long? Did they file a missing person report after not seeing him for a day or 2 or did they just not check up on him at all until the police called them 21 days later to tell them he was dead?
Cho was not "holding" a tire iron. He was swinging at the police. Chaudry stabbed the police officer with a knife.
The police do not get paid to be hit in the head with a tire iron or be stabbed.
How were the police to know he was autistic? If he was autistic, why did the family let him wander around at 4 a.m.?
The comments here are the standard "I hate the police." Except when they are being attacked, then it's "Where are the police to protect me"?
23 · JHFROMLH said
good point. People are talking about how his poor family must be doing during this crisis, but why was he homeless if they cared for him so much? and more importantly, why didn't they think anything was wrong after he hadn't contacted them for 21 days (possibly more)
24 · Johnny Valker said
good point. People are talking about how his poor family must be doing during this crisis, but why was he homeless if they cared for him so much? and more importantly, why didn't they think anything was wrong after he hadn't contacted them for 21 days (possibly more)
It is not hard to guess why his family has all of a sudden become outraged. A winning lawsuit against the LAPD will bring millions of dollars.
The hysteria of leftists with a soft spot for criminals is repugnant. LAPD is doing its best in a gang ridden city with a mayor who coddles illegal alien criminals.
I could only image the bigger outrage among the left if this had been a illegal immigrant.
23 · JHFROMLH said
nor are they paid to summarily execute citizens. Instead of increased funding for non-lethal weaponry (tasers, rubber bullets can be lethal), we have paramilitary-style SWAT teams in every municipality that can just barely afford it. If they had a way of subduing him, at a safe distance, without the gun, i'm pretty sure they would opt for that.
And yes, in LA, homeless people are not considered human beings (by some of those who should do so--especially area hospitals).
questions for the right-to-shooters: is there something especially unlawful, or leading to disturbance of the peace, about lying down in some bushes behind an apt. complex? Did he have drugs or any other contraband on him at the time? Was he engaged in the solicitation of prostitution or drugs? Was he attempting to harass/mug passersby? Were there complaints made about noise/some other form of nuisance that would cause the residents undue stress? Does the deterrent effect of prison for lethal mistakes on the job make cops less effective in protecting and serving the citizenry, i.e. is it better to give cops carte blanche in cases of 'collateral damage' so that they may vigorously pursue criminals?
27 · Nayagan said
No, but stabbing a police officer is. The cops didn't jump out of their cruiser with guns blazing. They spotted the man behind bushes at 4 AM (which I hope you agree is suspicious), and Chaudhry stabbed the officer without reason.
Somebody mentioned the LAPD and their long history of doing this. While there are some good points about why the cops probably weren't in the wrong here, let me just say (based on reading the LA Times for the last two years or so) if you're in LA, I'd be very careful about brushing your hair, stirring your chicken curry, carrying a mobile phone or doing *anything* that involves holding a narrow object. Or any object.
The issue to me is the 21 days. Where was his body for 21 days? What was his family doing for 21 days?
Did it take 21 days to come up with a story with no holes in it to tell the family? Did it take 21 days for the police officers self inflicted wound to heal up? What were the police doing in that 21 day period? Does anyone know because I only read the post above and dont feel like going through 10 different web sites to read up on it.
TO NAYAGAN
If you spotted someone in the bushes outside of your window at 4 a.m. (or at anytime for that matter), even if it an apartment complex, would you call the police? or would you take him some cookies and milk?
TO G-MAN
Your lack of reasoning and anti-police bias is to be expected since you read the L.A. Times.
I know that the LAPD can be shady as hell towards people of color,I see this as the officer did not have a choice but to shoot this guy as unfortunate as it may be we have to remember that he stabbed this cop,this officer was fighting for was life. I would ask anyone of you would you be thinking at the time I need to pepper spray or taser this guy? I see another problem also nobody seems to care till it happens to a person of his race or religon, I can bet if the person was Mexican,White or black there would not be all this outrage. We as people need to care about every victim of police brutality and stop thinking that it can not happen to us.
I have to say that I don't think that this will turn out to be a case of police brutality or misuse of force. Police officers HAVE TO be ultra-cautious; otherwise, they get killed. You have to put yourself in the place of the officers at the time, without the benefit of hindsight. These officers had no idea this kid was autistic or that all he had was a knife. He attacked a police officer and, unfortunately, he was killed. If you want to see real police brutality, go to Egypt, or Russia, or China, or India. These are some countries which have REAL widespread brutality problems. These days I feel like a lot of this anti-police protesting isn't activism, but really NARCISSISM.
16 · Janeofalltrades said
Really good point Jane of All Trades, but I have to wonder why they couldn't have shot him in an effort to injure him--especially if he were simply armed with a knife.I had a cop tell me that they are trained to shoot center mass,the officer also told me they do that to avoid lawsuits.
to shalu
"simply armed with a knife?" That is one incredibly stupid remark.
Maybe Choudhry would simply have killed the officer if he hadn't been stopped. Maybe the policeman should have pulled out his knife and they could have had a duel.
Police are not trained to shoot to injure. They are trained to shoot until there is no longer a threat. In other words, they are trianed to shoot to kill.
With all this stupid left right thinking talking walking, people forget to move forward. 4am asleep the poor guy would be scared. They could have shot anywhere at him, but he was killed. That’s the part that gets me. I have all the respect for the police force, any police force; they are faced with people of all states of mind. I could never do that job.
When you kill someone who have to be sure, you have to be sure it was 100% justified.
Cops don't do that. For one thing, it's very difficult to achieve. For another, it's more dangerous, the bullet could go anywhere else, and your assailant might continue to advance and kill you. As somebody else said, cops are trained to shoot at the center mass. Movies make it seem like shooting a handgun is easy, and you can hit any target you want, but if you've even fired one in the range, you know that's not true, and that's a still target.
This is why cops are supposed to use non-lethal means to deal with somebody until they are a danger.
might be interesting to some.
To the cop, who is Hispanic, the deceased would have looked Hispanic (given the relatively low % of S. Asian homeless) as well. I see room for criticism over the notification of kin and maybe a push for the development new & effective non-lethal technologies, but I don't feel it is right to trash the cop at this point.
The truth is always in the middle.
To say that the police are the best thing ever and could do no harm is just a ignorant thing to say
To say that the police are never justified in a fatal incident is also a ignorant thing to say.
I tend to look at facts when coming to a conclusion.
A. Police shoot a man that they say stabbed them
B. Police keep the body for 21 days
C. They fail to reach his family for 21 days
From that you can say
A. Police did there job and just plain forgot about a dead young man who stabbed one of them and for 21 days layed dead in a meat locker. He had ID on him too, so it took about a minute to identify him.
B. Police in an attempt to cover up a crime of there own kept a body for 21 days and worked out a story that had little holes in it. As a result a family with a communication problem is pissed.
Lets say that the police didnt try to cover up anything and he did stab them.
Is it not incredible negligent to wait that long to contact a family member of his? Are you saying that this is not suspicious on any level? If you dont think it is then I have a Nigerian friend that is a king in his country and he needs your help by letting him deposit his millions of dollars in your bank account. Just Email it to me at MostGulliblePersonEver@yahoo.com
31 · JHFROMLH said
you have some new information on the case, pointing to the police responding to a call? And is in unlawful to be unseen and unheard in a bush?
The deceased was originally ID'd as black by the coroner:
I don't know what race the cop believed him to be.
31 · JHFROMLH said
in the very unlikely event that someone crawled up the tree that shades my second-floor balcony, i'd treat them much like the in-heat-and-yowling cats that staked out my boyhood trailer in the boonies--a quick dousing with a bucket of water.
i don't agree with reasonable cause being based on "wrong place, wrong time" as that frequently leads to either the civilian or the cop getting hurt (or both.) Do I trust cops to always carry out their duties while mindful of my civil rights? No.
has anyone read malcom gladwell's book, "blink". he has a chapter about this sort of thing--where a police officer kills an innocent man, b/c he's dark, can't speak english, and happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
i don't know anything about police academy training, but it seems like they need some more simulation excercises to help them differentiate between a true life threatening situation and one like this. i have to say though, in response to one of the comments above that cops don't seem to be able to differentiate between medical conditions and actual aggressive behavior---cops do bring in a lot of acutely psychotic people to the psychiatric emergency room.
This is a poor blog post, the worst kind of sensationalism and manipulation to score some weak political point. It's very sad the boy died and the delayed notification is unacceptable at best, criminal at worst, but the boy stabbed a police officer and the cops shot him. You can pretend all you want that the police are some monolithic beast out for colored blood, but this post just shows how ridiculous you can sound when you demonize police officers in an example that really does show the danger of their jobs.
46 · noblekinsman said
The "21" days gap makes it probable that stabbing incident too was concocted, unless proven conclusively. But 4.00am, sitting under the bush and in L.A, is suspicious though..
i agree, illegal immigrants do not deserve due process, much less the right to not be shot on the whims of a cop.
I am wondering why the family did not put out a missing person's,whats to say that when the police was looking for this guy's family that they did not just brush it off. I know if I have a relative that has autism I would file a missing person report asap if he or she went missing for more than two hours.
Per his brother's blog, the last time they met was in November 2007. Doesn't look like they were that close (not that has any bearing on the case). They say he was high functioning autistic (Aspergers?), they are often self sufficient and you can find people like this who are academically/professionally accomplished. So I can see why they didn't raise the alarm
i agree, illegal immigrants do not deserve due process, much less the right to not be shot on the whims of a cop.
There would be more outrage among the elite soy milk drinking left if an illegal immigrant was shot by a cop and killed then there would be if some illegal immigrant with big crimmal record shot and killed a cop. I just have never understood the way some on the far left think, there are just as crazy as the far right nutjobs.
I bet Michelle Malkin drinks soy milk. Desis and Asians are often lactose intolerant. Maybe she isn't elite but just wants to limit her flatulence to her column
Sukhi, stop sounding so hateful. You make Rush Limbaugh sound like the Dali Lama.
NobleKinsman said:
You sound like you should work for the Bush administration. "The war that cost thousands of lives was a miscaluclation at best, genocide at worst. Next question!"
In all fairness to police officers, they have one of the most stressful jobs around and one of the highest suicide rates of any profession. To have to make split second decisons that can result in either their own death or the death of someone has to take heavy physical and mental toll. Joseph Wambaugh , a former police officer turned novelist wrote about it various fiction and non fiction books. Check out the movie "The New Centurions", based on his novel of the same name. Made in the early 70s, it has a pretty harsh look at the life of beat cops in LA.
13 · louiecypher said
Well said Johnny Valker. Police racism is real, but I think that invoking it every time a PoC is killed devalues the charge
Not necessarily. Sometimes racism in the justice system/law enforcement is not always determined by the skin color of the offender, but many times the skin color of the victim. If the victim is a PoC, the Law usually (at least historically) is in favor of the offender, especially if the offender(s) are cops. (e.g. Sean Bell, Amadou Diallo, Yusef Hawkins...and in this case, Mohammad Chaudhry).
32 · Doug said
BINGO!! *DING! DING!* You told the raw naked truth about that. It seems that people of all races don't have a problem with racial profiling, as long as their people aren't the ones being profiled.
55 · Huey said
Let's not mix up facts here. Yusef Hawkins was not killed by cops. His lynchers were given varying prison sentences. Sean Bell drunkenly slammed his car into a police van; he was only outside to retrieve a gun to possibly shoot someone inside the club. Mohammad Chaudhry's death isn't going to win much sympathy after he stabbed the cop (as was beaten to death in this thread) Amadou Diallo, perhaps, but then again he repeatedly ignored orders to stop and instead reached for a wallet. Who reaches for a wallet inside their jacket after several cops tell you to stop? There's much more to these cases than the police cruising around looking for a minority to shoot.
57 · Johnny Valker said
Where is the Pre-Crime division when you need it? Save us, Tom Cruise!!!
57 · Johnny Valker said
It's easy to be glib when you aren't the one facing a hail of bullets from people in street clothes who pull gats and start yelling at you. It's not that the cops are racist for profiling (something everyone does to a certain extent), but they're not doing their job when they kill a relative innocent (while all the d-boys are free to slang away on the nearest corner)
The Map don't lie.
it's good to see the sheeple, "may i have another civil liberty disappeared, sir?" mentality alive and well. Scalia would be thrilled. If you want to bring Iraqi rules of engagement over here, a far easier solution would be to go over there. Summary execution for perceived breach of protocol is standard, and not only the local authorities but also private contractors can kill civilians with impunity.
59 · Nayagan said
why reach for a wallet when police officers are telling you to freeze? this was sloppy shooting and poor judgment on the cops' part, i'll admit, but that has nothing to do with civil liberties. America is nothing like Iraq, and the police here can't fire a bullet without accounting for it.
57 · Johnny Valker said
Let's not mix up facts here. Yusef Hawkins was not killed by cops. His lynchers were given varying prison sentences. Sean Bell drunkenly slammed his car into a police van; he was only outside to retrieve a gun to possibly shoot someone inside the club. Mohammad Chaudhry's death isn't going to win much sympathy after he stabbed the cop (as was beaten to death in this thread) Amadou Diallo, perhaps, but then again he repeatedly ignored orders to stop and instead reached for a wallet. Who reaches for a wallet inside their jacket after several cops tell you to stop? There's much more to these cases than the police cruising around looking for a minority to shoot.
Give me a break, Johnny Valker, if four or five guys in plain clothes pull out guns and NOT identify themselves as police officers are you going to wait and see if they shoot you? Hell no! You'll want to leave. How does one retrieve a gun in his own car, when he doesn't have one INSIDE the car? That's BS. Sean Bell was unarmed, and was going to a bachelor party and getting married the next day. What groom carries a gun to a bachelor party? Hogwash!
Yusef Hawkins's murderers did get varying sentences...despite the fact that two of the lynch mob were later acquitted, and a third conspirator received 300 hours of community service (for unlawfully possessing a weapon). How lenient a punishment for a felony.
And Diallo already HAD his wallet out. He dropped it and tried to pick it up. The undercover cops "thought" the wallet was a gun. And that's how Diallo was shot multiple times. I don't care if witnessed 30 drive-by shootings in one day. If you're a cop and you can't tell the difference between a wallet and a freaking GUN, then you need to find another job, because law enforcement isn't for you.
Ok, settlement between the city and the attorney for the deceased before the end of 09. Settlement amount $650,000.
In Texas it isn't just the cops.
I realize that I have two very different positions but the difference is that cops are paid for with public money and hence are answerable to a higher standard.
18 · amp said
His "concerned" family was trying to locate where he was the whole time while he was outside, but since he was 18 that makes him automatically mature and an adult so the police said we had to stay off his back. They stopped him once because we filed a missing claims report, asked him a few questions and deemed it okay to let him go and not even give us a clue as to which city he might be in. LAPD already knew he was autistic because he has been in their records since we were always after to locate where he was. They said to leave him alone because he was 18. Yeah maybe physically he might be 18 but mentally not. We were always looking for him, even during Eid time once, we did our namaz and my dad and uncle went to go see where he was. He was autistic but highly functional, so he might seem okay for the most part which was why the officers who stopped him the first time thought it was fine to let him go but he wasnt fine all the way. The police let him out onto the streets and they kept him there by not telling us where he was.
Do they not usually search a person before taking them into custody (handcuffing) them, so how could he still have the knife if still in handcuffs?
ha sure they might get questioned..but its always "justified"
31 · JHFROMLH said
Snigger.
I lied. I read it in the New York Times.
I am what newspaper I read, doesn't matter what else I read the rest of the day.
Melbourne Desi @ #64
Except, they were not in Horn's home. They were in his neighbor's yard. Texas law allows a person to shoot an intruder on some one else's property. So apparently he didn't break any laws by shooting them in the back while they were fleeing and after the 9/11 operator asked him repeatedly not to. Mr. Horn was not in any danger from the "crims." Also, the law that allows deadly force probably is meant to protect against imminent danger and not for taking action after the situation has been defused. Mr. Horn was in no danger. He was inside his home, the perps were outside on someone else's property and 911 had already been called. Also, the two thieves had taken flight when Horn shot them. Some are wondering if Horn would have acted the same way if he'd found a couple of neighborhood teenagers messing around instead of two "foreign" looking men. Would you be so forgiving then? Unless you argue that "unpaid citizen" vigilantes have the right to hunt and kill all unsavory characters who are "potential" threats to our (and our neighbor's) lives and property, I see little justification in your argument.
The guy stabbed a cop! They had every right to shoot him. That he was autistic was unfortunate, but that's the world we live in people.
Just cause the guy is 'brown' doesn't excuse all the gushing and moaning here.
66 · lostone said
The county I live in charged a police officer with attempted manslaughter last year, after finding that his shooting of a civilian was unjustified. The jury was rather quick to acquit the officer, even thought there was a videotape of the entire incident. It just goes to show that there is always more to the story than what is reported in the media. Leaping to conclusions is useless.
69 · Shiv said
Just cause the guy is 'brown' doesn't excuse all the gushing and moaning here.
How do you know, that is what the police is telling everyone, there is always two sides to every story and it seems that everyone just wants to believe what the police has to say and not see if it is the truth or not.
how can someone stab someone when in handcuffs?
What happened to the Sepia Mutiny I knew and loved, which actually had intelligent comments? Has it moved to a different location, and if so, why didn't I get the memo?
Although I am not American I got to say the LAPD just appears to me to be a very unprofessional police force. The man was handcuffed no need to kill him when he was already restrained.
If he was handcuffed and then shot that's an abomination. But if he was shot after he shanked the cop...big deal. The moral of the story is don't hang around a bush at night and lunge at cops with a knife.
He was not hiding behind bushes, it was stated that he was asleep behind bushes. So why bother waking him up if he is asleep and not harming anyone? Also why shoot in the chest multiple times? There are other methods to disarm people without killing them, such as shooting in the arm or leg, or even using a taser. Officer Joseph Cruz "supposedly" got a tiny cut on his hand why Usman got his life taken away. But who cares right, because it was not someone who you knew so you should not have to worry about it. Thinking like that is why the police are getting away with it again and again, like the Sean Bell case. All three officers were found innocent even though they shot at him 50 TIMES! The officer who had shot 22 times at him, said it happened so fast that he did not know what was happening. Yeah right, he didnt have time to stop and think for a second while putting more bullets into his gun to think why am I shooting this many times at a guy? There is no one to stand up and say stop killing our people, we are all human beings. We all have a right to live, stop using techniques that will kill people. Now instead of worrying about criminals and gangsters, we also have to worry about police officers killing us as well. What is this world coming to?
72 · Searching for intelligence in the South Asian world said
agreed. these are some of the worst SM comments i've seen. police brutality in LA, and in the U.S., exists and has been increasing esp in the last 6 months. lets not be so naive to jump out and say, "he should have been killed." esp if he was already handcuffed, how could he have done anything with the supposed knife?
"they have the authority,
to kill a minority"
--Ice Cube
The guy stabbed the cops... I mean its horrible that he died and all but I really don't see this as a horrible case of police brutality. Big city cops like the LAPD have to deal with all kinds of hairy situations.
I also don't get this whole south Asian unity thing. I am Indian I don't really care all that much about Pakistani or Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi or whatever issues. Lets just be honest and deal with situation between south Asian groups in a realistic fashion. We don't really like each other all that much and don't mingle unless forced to.
78 · Prithviraj said
I also don't get this whole south Asian unity thing. I am Indian I don't really care all that much about Pakistani or Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi or whatever issues. Lets just be honest and deal with situation between south Asian groups in a realistic fashion. We don't really like each other all that much and don't mingle unless forced to.
Its people like you and your bias thinking that keep people from joining together when there is trouble just because of where someone is from. Does it matter if the person is from Pakistan or India, or even that they are brown or not for people to actually care. We are all human beings, we all have red blood in us and we all have family and friends that we care about. So instead of sitting there and thinking that you shouldnt care because the person that died was not Indian, maybe you should take action so that it does not happen to someone else, it could even be someone you know.
How can you be a hundred percent sure that Usman stabbed a cop, if he was handcuffed then that is impossible. How can you not say it is not police brutality, they shot multiple times in the chest while he was HANDCUFFED. Wow you really are cold hearted for not caring or giving hoot because the person that died was Pakistani and you are an Indian, thats real backwards thinking there.
If you come at me with a knife (pocket or otherwise), I'm going to shoot you to protect myself. The rounds are going to be aimed at center mass. In fact, the third round might be a head shot. For those who think shooting someone in the leg or arm...or even shooting the knife out of the suspect's hand is an option...turn off the television. Lethal force is used and justified in the immediate defense of life or threat of great bodily injury. Great bodily injury is well defined and would include the injury sustained to the officer and the threat of further injury possible from the knife. Center mass is used due to the large target area and the ultimate stopping ability. That is the goal: stopping the threat.
I think many of the anti police people are jumping to conclusions on this case. I don't know where the rumor of the suspect being handcuffed came from. Perhaps it is due to him being handcuffed after the shooting. Perhaps it is something assumed and rumor begat rumor. Anyone who thinks an officer is just looking for a reason to shoot someone has never thought that philosophy through. Why place yourself in such scrutiny? Why give the media a reason to camp in front of your home? Why would someone want to be sued in federal court? Why would someone want to be bad case law? Imagine your life being turned upside down just for doing your job? And to think that the department acts to cover up an incident? Anyone working in civil service knows that such a government agency does not exist. Sure, there have been guns and other weapons planted on individuals, and those warrant further investigation and scrutiny. But, in this case, it seems cut and dry.
And who cares if the family wasn't notified in 21 days? That isn't the duty of the police. The LA County Coroner's Office handles that aspect of the investigation. There is very little cooperation between the Coroner and the LAPD..so how could they collude to keep information from the family?
This case comes down to one thing. The suspect shouldn't have done what he did. That's it. And if the family is so curious as to why things went down the way they did, why didn't they do somthing to prevent it?
Are there cases of police brutality? Yes. But they are not as common as people think. The problem is that everyone claims it. It is like crying wolf. When it actually happens, we tend not to differentiate it from cases like this moron. False claims of brutality take credibility away from real cases of civil rights violations.
If anyone thinks I have no experience in these matters, guess again.
81 · Arod said
stopping the threat doesnt mean killing the person.
Here is a link about Usman's life:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25740730@N08/2676975057/in/set-72157606224428145/