Well considering that a European left alone with a potato peeler and a cow will treat himself to some very fresh carpaccio a desi is a better bet

Nice, even heartwarming, in many ways (and cert. a lot better than what we hear about les banlieues de Paris), but I feel more comfortable (for what little that's worth!) with the US model, in which a good chunk of we desis are starting out in higher-SES positions.

My favorite part is when the guy explains that he likes to hire Indians because they are patient, methodical, and extremely reliable, with a natural gift for working with animals. Clearly he’s never been to India.

rob's point implicitly points to this. what an "indian" is is sharply skewed by migration patterns. i mean, some people here talk about "indian values" such as education, but look at the low literacy and human capital levels of the brownlands. what they're really talking about the indians they know. in contrast, when koreans allude particular generalizations re: education, etc., they're much more back-extrapolatable to the homeland.

I'm pretty sure the "bufala" they use for Italian mozzarela production are erumai from the desh. According to wikipedia the Asian buffalo was brought to Italy by the Goths (who bought them from Arabs in N. Africa ?).

the bit about hard-working and patient (the ability to put up with crap/shit. both the literal variety as well as the metaphorical type is what binds these farmers to the IT workers) has more than a grain of truth in it..

here are some gratituous and partially accurate stereotypes from a well travelled indian businessman

Chinese - Fiercely competitive, no holds barred in the race to financial success

Germans - Need time to warm up, but then friends for life, will go out of there way, not arrogant (post WWII effect), very organized

Korean - Take a lot of risks, work very hard, ruthless competitors, they are ok with anybody except the Japanese

Japanese - Very loyal to their country, very systematic in selling their products (toyota)

Americans - Very little real knowledge of the rest of the world, easy going (as long as their jobs are in place and they have enough oil), easy to do business with

Indians - Very complicated people (talk too much, confuse themselves), very hard working, very very patient (will put up with a lot of shit), not ruthless in competition

Razib,

rob's point implicitly points to this

Yup, as Manju might (correctly) say, we are attuned to these "dog-whistles"!!

According to wikipedia the Asian buffalo was brought to Italy by the Goths (who bought them from Arabs in N. Africa ?).

the goths they're talking about are ostrogoths who established themselves in italy in the late 5th century. at this point north africa was under the rule of vandals, a german people from southern scandinavia, and populated by latin, punic and berber speaking groups. the ostrogoths have their name because they were along the eastern margins of the gothic domains of eastern europe, into ukraine, before they were driven west by the huns. so without further research i don't think it's implausible that they got the buffalo through near eastern or central asian trade contacts. i believe that economists who study the history of gold specie movement note that there was a lot of flow from south asia to east-north europe via central asia (amber and other raw materials would flow south and east) during this period (as evidenced by the relative wealth of scandinavians through this trade before it declined late in the 1st millennium).

cite: Power and Plenty: Trade, War, and the World Economy in the Second Millennium.

I'm just wondering, how many of the desi's in Italy came to that country the right and legal way.

4 · louiecypher said

I'm pretty sure the "bufala" they use for Italian mozzarela production are erumai from the desh.

and don't even get me started about the insulting panni ni.

5 · sn said

here are some gratituous and partially accurate stereotypes from a well travelled indian businessman

Thanks, that was totally helpful. WTF.

Did no one else notice that they refered the Sikhs as being vegitarian and not consuming alcohol? WTF?

Nothing unusual with that... Many Sikhs are vegetarian, usually the Amritdhari Sikhs. Also langar is always vegetarian. Sikhs are not supposed to take intoxicants, but some Sikhs ignore that;)

8 · Suki Dillon said

I'm just wondering, how many of the desi's in Italy came to that country the right and legal way.

That matters little, my friend. We all know that the Po Valley is just a temporary layover on their way to Vancouver where they will no doubt get drunk and scratch their butts and beat their wimmin and shoot each other with hockey stick shotguns, just to embarrass your self-hating hide and get fat off your hard earned tax dollars. Can't you hear them knocking?

Italy has a severely declining birth rate/population, and could not function without imported labor. I doubt that the Indians are anything more than guest workers. But if the Italians (and Europe in general) wanted to reverse their declining populations, they should allow immigration of these workers and their families.

8 · Suki Dillon said

I'm just wondering, how many of the desi's in Italy came to that country the right and legal way.

Why do you care?

This is fascinating. Thanks for the post, ennis! I wonder whether any of these cheese experts have or plan to return to India to make cheese there? See my related post "Unwrapping Cheese in India" a few months ago about the increasing variety of cheesy options in the homeland.

15 · atool said

8 · Suki Dillon said

I'm just wondering, how many of the desi's in Italy came to that country the right and legal way.

Why do you care?

I have seen this "person" posting on a few other sites pertaining to Indians, specifically Sikhs, and he clearly harbours a lot of animosity towards Punjabis. Don't pay any attention to this Babu and his anglicized name, Suki Dillon lol

When I visited Italy as a high school student, I saw lots of Bengali/Bengladeshis in Roma. I fantasized about finding a hot Italian-speaking Punjabi guy. Now, my prayers have been answered - Italian-speaking Punjabis who make Cheese?? Sweet.

Sidenote - I loved seeing the amritdhari uncle speaking fluent Italian with a pendu accent. That was totally awesome.

Did no one else notice that they refered the Sikhs as being vegitarian and not consuming alcohol? WTF?

Many Sikhs are vegetarian and do not drink. It depends on their level of personal observance or preference. In the temple the langar is always vegetarian so everyone can partake of food there. And it's not just baptised Sikhs who are vegetarian.

and the second largest Gurdwara in Europe

Hmmmm. I doubt that. Serving 600 Sikhs? The UK has quite a few big gurdwarey that might be bigger than that.

and the second largest Gurdwara in Europe

Hmmmm. I doubt that. Serving 600 Sikhs? The UK has quite a few big gurdwarey that might be bigger than that.

Oh, no doubt. I think the makers of the news clip (who seem to have been British from the accent but I don't know) meant continental Europe when they said Europe. Also, they might get more than 600 worshipers. If there are 90,000 immigrants in the region, most of whom are Sikhs, they could get several thousand worshipers regularly. I don't know.

I'm not an expert on desi migration to Italy, but I think it's important, first, to check our (American/Canadian) assumptions about migration policy and patterns for other countries. (I think razib alluded to this with respect to how we perceive "typical" or "correct" desi worker identities, skills, and jobs). Immigration regimes are significantly different in continental Europe, and they're also different on a country-by-country basis in terms of interaction with "sending" countries.

With respect to desis in Italy, I'm sure there's been a great deal of migration in the last 40 years, but there's an older (smaller) population that's been in Italy (like France) since WWII, when [British] Indian troops were brought over to fight the Axis powers.

On vegetarianism and intoxicants, the latter is true, the former is more of a trend. Under the Rehit Maryada, the question of vegetarianism is left open, although there are requirements/limitations on what kinds of meat you can/cannot eat, if you eat meat. There are, however, clear requirements re: intoxicants (drugs, alcohol, tobacco). While these rules are strictly adhered to by amritdhari Sikhs, there's also a relatively robust population of non-amritdhari Sikhs who follow these practices, also. And, as others have mentioned, langar is always prepared vegetarian (both at home and in public/community spaces), largely for inclusivity of all Sikhs and for people of other faiths.

Great piece. thanks for posting. Two comments. i always assumed that sikhs eat meat and drank alcohol. second, did you notice how facile the desi's were with the italian languagage.

lol , any indian of punjabi origin is quick to tell you about there so called "aryan" blood running thru their viens and how through history they intermingled with the turks, greeks etc.. and most think they are white or something, There are punjabs in places like italy and greece but make no mistake they dont accept you as there own to you they are just an extra source of cheap labour.