After the attacks on September 11th there was a backlash that included violence against anyone perceived to be a Muslim. Should we be worrying about the same thing if Obama should win?

Obama is a muslim?

Read the sentence again and this time don't skip the word "perceived."

McCain's campaign must be run by complete incompetents. Today John Lewis who is widely respected on civil rights issues,criticized McCain and Palin for encouraging a atmosphere of division. McCain shot back at him, forgetting that McCain himself identified him as one of the three wise people he would consult. Instead they tried to pivot the blame on Obama and insinuated that he should apologize for Lewis? ... this kid of spin makes you almost dizzy and in the end backfires.

When you have supporters call out "Kill him" and "Terrorist" at his rallies, it's a little ironic to be attacking the messenger.

Thanks for posting this and especially the link to the Frank Rich article. That small but virulent core of fundamentalist bigots that was unleashed over the past few years and that Palin (and Mccain) continue and especially their surrogates continue to egg on is terrifying me.

Though I'm not in the U.S., I do think what's happening now is distinctly different from what's happened earlier. Your safety and for people of color lgbt people amy goodman types etc, including Obama, feels more endangered now to me than at any other point since the Iraq War started. It was commendable that McCain has, admidst all this, retained enough humanity to push back against one person a little, but he needs to take more responsibility for what is happening right now and exert some control over his campaign. At this point the distance between "kill him" and a crazy person actually going and trying to kill him or committing some other hate crime is not very large, I think, and its only getting smaller. There should be zero tolerance of irresponsible public speech by politicians right now by the media, the public, etc.

My God is bigger than your God!

Surely God has better things to do than help out here. Ignorance can be dangerous, it's not always bliss. Perhaps people think all Indians are Hindus and as such they speak in a Hindu language and hence worship the Hindu God.
http://lajuk.blogspot.com

Here is a WSJ article that talks about this issue as well.

talking about ignorance and religious hatred....i am surprised that SM is not covering any of the ongoing violence against Christians in Orissa.

I hit submit before I could add any comments.

McCain is walking a dangerous line here and while there may be some short term benefits to this strategy from a votes perspective, he has alienated many of his supporters in the media. Heck, Christopher Buckley (William Buckley's Jr.'s son) has thrown his hat in the Obama ring.

Geez, can anyone just sign up to be a pastor?

The entrance bar must not be set too high for such positions... an ordained minister threatened to geld Obama.

10 · Vikram said

an ordained minister threatened to geld Obama.

Maybe Jesse was just an overzealous Mohel. Anything to win Florida.

McCain is walking a dangerous line here

at the point they are unleashing lynch mobs, mccain has well and truly crossed a line. of course, some will persist in saying that obama's best bet is to pretend this never happened, or as the mccain campaign is saying, apologize for john lewis' comments, while all the time mccain and palin are brazenly and unapologetically fanning the worst fears of racism and religionism.

I just watched the film idiocracy on hbo.

Maybe what we are seeing right now is life imitating art?

Geez, can anyone just sign up to be a pastor?

if a sheriff can do it in uniform, why not a pastor?

yeah, it's dumb ignorant bigotry. religious fundamentalists are not intelligent. but "hate speech"? this is just the standard core of beliefs on the fundamentalist evangelical right.

" while all the time mccain and palin are brazenly and unapologetically fanning the worst fears of racism and religionism."

"If I was Delawala I’d ask for a bodyguard while reporting. All of this is increasingly troubling. After the attacks on September 11th there was a backlash that included violence against anyone perceived to be a Muslim. Should we be worrying about the same thing if Obama should win?"

It is prudent to think about these things of course, but since B.O.'s triumphal entry into Berlin and Denver, the whole world is watching us and MSM would be all over any hate crimes Like white on rice, if they are committed against blacks and probably brown muslims. Probably.
alas, Rev. Wright was no kumbyah type either. Whites, Christians, atheists, wiccans, are afraid too. Riots have been predicted whether Obama wins or doesn't win (by black pundits and white.) The fact that there have recently been election riots in Kenya is a weirdly unsettling. Fear is a major indicator in this election, like I've never seen it before. Fear of the foreign, but even more, fear of our "own."

Sure is a great year for democracy.

Obama's pulling away faster than Michael Shumacher, having already surpassed the 270 needed electoral votes, and if you toss in toss ups, Big Mac's on the wrong end of 353-185 blowout.

So an increasingly desperate campaign has become increasingly erratic and unpresidential, as Mac carooms recklessly from one incendiary charge to another, hoping to incite a race war in a futile almost Sisyphus-like attempt to stop Americans of thinking about an imminent depression and failed war, of peace and prosperity, ie of what presidential elections have always been about.

But with every hysterical outburst he descends deeper into a polling abyiss. There are strategic reasons for this to be sure--you're supposed to define your opponent (with stuff like Ayers) early, not wait until it looks like a hail Mary--but at the end of the day his opponent, a man more vulnerable (to a southern strategy) than Larry Craig in j.Edgar Hoover's bathroom, has proven to have great political instincts; having read the political zeitgeist and realized Americans were in fact ready for a change.

Obama's been here before. Not too long ago another one of his opponents grew increasingly erratic and unhinged as the inevitable approached. His supporters fretted he was blowing it but Obama remained cool, knowing a dead cat bounce when he saw one. And by the time one of her supporters became the poster-girl for white resentment, it was obvious that this little outburst just represented the last spasm of a dying campaign.

Ditto for McCain supporters. Oh, I can still imagine a scenario for a Mac comeback (the markets stabilize in the short run, OBL is captured, another terrorist attack, or a Bradley effect for the ages) but these possibilities become increasingly implausible with every passing day. McCain and his supporters are in the anger stage preceding acceptance.

McCain and the Clintons, two great American political brands, will ride off into the sunset, their legacies and reputations forever transformed, having been defeated and humiliated by the new Master of politics.

Is this really happening?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4515218n

http://blog.iconflict.com/new-york-county-prints-%E2%80%98barack-osama%E2%80%99-on-ballots/

15 · razib said

yeah, it's dumb ignorant bigotry. religious fundamentalists are not intelligent. but "hate speech"? this is just the standard core of beliefs on the fundamentalist evangelical right.

Exactly.

But it's not the beliefs that are at issue here - it's that people are yelling things like "kill him" or "terrorist" while an angry mob cheers them. And going on to attack reporters and whatnot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us

razib, my apologies. I know you don't like political discussions, but it is that time again, the folks can't

yeah. i think michael crowley is right to point to similarities to the anger of liberals as bush retained his lead in the polls up to election day in 2004. of course, the hysteria didn't verge into intimations of violence that i know of (i know whereof i speak, not a single bush voter in my whole social circle). i think here you might be seeing a right vs. left difference; people on the left threatened to move to canada, people on the right don't want to move to some ferun country, so they need to change this country...by any means necessary??? well, i doubt that will happen, but people will talk.

the last comment was a response to manju. clipboard copy feature went FUBAR ;-)

And Lord, I pray that you will guard your own reputation, because they’re going to think that their God is bigger than you, if that happens.

I've heard of attack dogs (including those wearing lipstick), but I've never heard of an attack god before.

Insecure pessimists should Always Look on the Bright Side of Life.

20 · Manju said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us

Was there a protester vowing to control the means of production while singing showtunes? I don't get it. There's a palin rally at the local racetrack. but you have to pay for tix. and i wouldn't be able to restrain my inner Nayagan.

they seem to be pumping each other up. It's like watching herd animals work up the courage to cross a dangerous section of a river or ascend a steep grade--they might have started off slowly, but as they pass by the protesters there's almost a palpable, unconsciously organized hate-a-thon thing going. The mild suggestions to off one's dirty commie/fag/rape victim self are likely in jest but these are the same people who simply can't abide by crass art or pornography. Some turd sandwiches are more aromatic than others apparently.

McCain and Palin reportedly fighting over dirty tactics.

Well, the pastor, though a bit crude in the way he put it, is factually correct. Most people here in SM, I suppose are nominally Hindus and they seem to support Obama and seem to disdain McCain and the Republicans for clinging to their religion that is not Hinduism.

Opinion polls conducted among Arab-Americans indicate the Obama support for Obama among Muslim Arab-Americans is over 92%, making it more lop sided than support for Obama among Black Americans. Interestingly, Christian Arab Americans seem to be divided rather more evenly between Obama and McCain. Well, it seems to me that, it is not just that the “white trash” that seems to be clinging to their religions, but also Third World immigrants and their decedents.

First of all, even the hate speech itself demonstrates gross ignorance. For goodness sake, if you are going to be a bigot at least have the courtesy to be a bigot that makes sense. “Hindu” and “Buddha” aren’t gods. Millions of people don’t worship “Hindu.”

I think it is Ok to call "Hindu" as a God. I have read some people claim that God lies in every soul or some stuff like that. That makes Buddha a god too. And Christians don't think Allah of Quran is the same as their God.

I think the pastor is technically right. :-)

26 · nirmal said

Well, the pastor, though a bit crude in the way he put it, is factually correct. Most people here in SM, I suppose are nominally Hindus and they seem to support Obama and seem to disdain McCain and the Republicans for clinging to their religion that is not Hinduism.

Opinion polls conducted among Arab-Americans indicate the Obama support for Obama among Muslim Arab-Americans is over 92%, making it more lop sided than support for Obama among Black Americans. Interestingly, Christian Arab Americans seem to be divided rather more evenly between Obama and McCain. Well, it seems to me that, it is not just that the “white trash” that seems to be clinging to their religions, but also Third World immigrants and their decedents.

Because arabs are from south asia? come back with SM data.

Opinion polls conducted among Arab-Americans indicate the Obama support for Obama among Muslim Arab-Americans is over 92%

hey, where'd you find that poll? pew?

anyway, 80% of ceos support mccain, and higher income voters, especially whites, tilt republican.

24 · Nayagan said

Was there a protester vowing to control the means of production while singing showtunes?

maybe Paulson imitating Giuliani.

well, this tells you a bit about mccain, but a lot more about the republican party, which is embracing palin as their standard bearer. who will be her veep? george allen, he of their minority outreach program?

I think people are being naive in assuming that its somehow McCain who is causing people to be bigots and he is inciting them. After 9/11 on no one's inciting innocent Sikh brothers got shot and killed. A General in the US service William Boykin said "my god is bigger than your god" and "My god is real and his is an idol" to a muslim Somali (not understanding that the Muslim God and Christian God are the same and that Muslims are stricter anti-idolists than Xtians) If this is what a General, who is supposed to be smart, thinks than what is a private thinking.

This isnt coming out somehow due to McCain inciting it. It was always there, which is just coming out as election is coming near and people are realizing that Obama becoming a president is not some kind of academic exercise but pretty close to a done deal.

if a sheriff can do it in uniform, why not a pastor?

What about when the highest judicial officer in the US, in uniform too, refers to Obama in the same way ? Or will Obama request an exception ?

(not understanding that the Muslim God and Christian God are the same and that Muslims are stricter anti-idolists than Xtians

i'm pretty sure that for fundy xtians idol = false god. not literally a graven image. these are not people with the most subtle lexicons.

That NY times article really does make me sick. And these videos on YouTube are mind numbing. On one of them you hear a little boy saying that the only way you should touch Obama is "with gloves on." Watch them and then shiver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJghQMq49dw&feature=related

32 · RC said

This isnt coming out somehow due to McCain inciting it. It was always there, which is just coming out as election is coming near and people are realizing that Obama becoming a president is not some kind of academic exercise but pretty close to a done deal.

it is election season, and these sentiments were obviously not brought forth out of the ether by McCain's pet thaumaturge, but absent the inflammatory rhetoric, why were there no rash of such incidents reported before? I would imagine that there are people unfriendly to the McCain campaign who have been faithfully taping rallies/speeches.

33 · Vikram said

What about when the highest judicial officer in the US, in uniform too, refers to Obama in the same way ? Or will Obama request an exception ?

It is truly heartening to see such idealists who are congenitally unable to hear high frequencies.

It is truly heartening to see such idealists who are congenitally unable to hear high frequencies.

Right. For better or worse it is his legal name. Unless he legally dropped it and and the Sheriff still insisted on using it. It's not like the Sheriff called him Osama Bin Laden as Ted Kennedy did. What instrument is that ? A trumpet ?

38 · Vikram said

Right. For better or worse it is his legal name. Unless he legally dropped it and and the Sheriff still insisted on using it.

It gives me great hope to see Americans who are so forgiving that they are willing to treat malice as just a slip of the tongue.

32 · RC said

I think people are being naive in assuming that its somehow McCain who is causing people to be bigots and he is inciting them.

no, but when the top leaders in the party say incendiary things, and do nothing when bloodthirsty mobs yell out "terrorist" and "kill him", it validates behavior, which might otherwise have been considered fringe.

and once again, john mccain tries to distract voters by dragging the campaign into racial waters (calling john lewis - "one of his trusted advisors" - a divisive muckraker) to distract from the sarah palin troopergate indictment, just like he did with his campaign suspension stunt that blew up the first attempt at the bailout bill, to distract from palin's couric interviews.

country first, indeed!

by the way. just imagine if joe biden or barack obama was indicted for... ummm.. anything... imagine how that would play.

Palin wasn't indicted, i think. a google of "palin indicted" only pulls up the e-mail hacker guy who was indicted. BTW, there was a lot of gendered vitrol (not a real woman, for example) and swiftboating (not her kid, etc) hurled at Palin, though not from Obama.

which is an important political point. mccain/palin are too close to the smears and vitriol. they'll turn off independents like pat buchanan did for bush when he gave that godawful speech at the convention. bigotry mixed with stupid politics. offensive on many levels.

gotta keep a distance. you don't see Obama getting too close with the kos kids.

you don't see Obama getting too close with the kos kids.

obama has to do damage control on a constant basis. because repubs are investigating everyone he even glanced at or went to 3rd grade with

44 · heromanyfaces said

obama has to do damage control on a constant basis. because repubs are investigating everyone he even glanced at or went to 3rd grade with

well, he's smart. a good politician stays away from radicals as much as possible, lest they have a trent lott moment. obama's vulnerable on two fronts: the black community is understandably more accepting of radicals in the name of anti-racism, so being part of the community he'll ineveitably run into the likes of farrakhan/wright. Also, the intelligentsia is more accepting of communism and various anti-freedom political ideologies, so Obama, being an intellectual got cinged by ayers and had a little che gurvera flag incident.

right wingers got to worry about confederate flags, kkk, militia groups; the latter two more or less on the outskirts of respectable society so that should be easy. but interestingly, Palin has some vague connections to the john birch society and a separatist party. the left wing blogweshere is going nuts about it (while simultaneously screaming bloody murder over ayers) but obama has chosen not to go there. probably he doesn't need to and the rule of thumb is you don't bother engaging the VP at a high level.

45 · Manju said

a good politician stays away from radicals as much as possible

it's a little more than good politics, it is also a question of how low you are willing to stoop to get elected, and in some cases, where your allegiances lie.

Palin wasn't indicted, i think.

you are right. the probe concluded she was guilty of abuse of power and violated alaska's laws, but who knows if this will translate into an indictment?

a google of "palin indicted" only pulls up the e-mail hacker guy who was indicted.

yep. another consequence of palin's amateurishness in trying to replicate rove's subversion of accountability laws by using private email for official business, except she used yahoo instead of a server run by her cronies. with her combination of cronyism, abuse of power, her extreme evangelical views, and her reactions of belligerence and stubbornness whenever faced with evidence of her own ignorance, she puts lipstick on a bush-cheney.

BTW, there was a lot of gendered vitrol (not a real woman, for example) and swiftboating (not her kid, etc) hurled at Palin, though not from Obama.

it is an important ethical as well as political point. obama and biden have stayed away from misogynistic stuff even when the most virulent crowd did it against hillary, and against palin. and in fact, he made it very clear that he wasn't going there.

for all the nastiness, just look at this. i remember laughing when i heard barack hussein obama mooting the possibility of running for president in the fall of 2006 on a radio show. i mean, i be serious? but here we are....

amerika can surprise you.

As a Christian Evangelical who has voted Republican in the past, this is probably the most embarassing post I've read on this site. Despite my belief about the fundamental differences between Christianity and other religions, I can tell you that God does not need to protect or guard his own reputation. If anyone believes that God's reputation depends on this particular election, he has a very small and limited view of God.

WHAT?!! OBAMA ISN'T MUSLIM?!!
Damn, am I going to have to vote for John McCain, now?!!
Pfft, I think most Muslims in America know by now that Obama is not Muslim. Perhaps we should consider that the numbers suggested (and I would love to see an actual source)indicate that Muslims support Obama because he's not introduced by a "My God is going to kick your God's A## in the election" speeches? This Muslim, for one, couldn't bear to hear another one of those.

Just as excessive sex and violence in the media is considered to be permeating the American society these racially charged incidents during campaign can be considered as "soft-core" psyops

After the attacks on September 11th there was a backlash that included violence against anyone perceived to be a Muslim. Should we be worrying about the same thing if Obama should win?

YES thats exactly what will happen...be very worried..If Obama wins anyone with a skin tone darker than milk chocolate better run for the hills..cause you are going to get whacked! Thank you sepia mutiny for the warning..and saving us all...

McCain is not supposed to win. Besides being A Democrat or RINO, I believe that he was nominated so Hussian Obama could become president.
After Hussian Obama becomes President there will be a swing to the right. (like Jimmah Carter enabling REAGAN)

Wait, Obama went to http://www.hussianart.edu/ ? Please spell for me reagan's first name.. ronaldinho reagan was it?

43 · Manju said

gotta keep a distance. you don't see Obama getting too close with the kos kids.

Well, with the way McCain is jumping off the team wagon with all his, "g-ddamit woman, you're killing me wit this he's a furriner crap!" he couldn't even get linked at redstate. Remember, if you're not with the facetious incitement team program(and write at that liberal elitist site culture11), you're against it.

right now, the entire conservative blogosphere sees Palin as possessing at least 3x McCain's manhood complement--wanting to go after Wright, publicly undermining the campaign by wondering why they're not doing so, pounding the Ayers angle without McCain's pleas for giving the "Ay-rab" a chance. Even after seeing the strongsville and bethlehem videos, how many Republican base voters in those states would say, "so??" (yes, obama's base were susceptible to some pretty sexist HRC bashing from their lowest-common-denominator base but I can't recall seeing any popular reaction to it that involved threats of violence.) Will Savage's ratings go up at the expense of Beck/Limbaugh/Hannity?

48 · daycruz said

As a Christian Evangelical who has voted Republican in the past, this is probably the most embarassing post I've read on this site. Despite my belief about the fundamental differences between Christianity and other religions, I can tell you that God does not need to protect or guard his own reputation. If anyone believes that God's reputation depends on this particular election, he has a very small and limited view of God.

I think the point was already made--it's not secular bigotry but belief. Though how, "you're not saved, therefore, after death, you're going to a place I regard to be the worst of all possible destinations" is any better than, "Our God will be pleased by his true believers' show of electoral force" I can't really tell.

There's virulent hate on both sides. Lets not forget 'Reverend' Wright and 'Reverend' Flagler who openly say a lot more hateful stuff. The difference is that Obama was close to these guys. There is no racial connotation with linking Ayers to Obama. The guy is a terrorist and Obama launched his political career in his living room. It the dirty secret, but its the truth. Its not dirty politics to bring the truth out. Its the same analogy as blaming the messenger.

That said, we have terrible candidates to choose from when country is in a recession. One is a black Marxist who hasn't accomplished anything as Bill Clinton said in his stumping for Hillary,and other is probably the lesser of two evils. Perhaps that is one of the reason why markets are tanking so badly.

56 · Vic said

There's virulent hate on both sides. Lets not forget 'Reverend' Wright and 'Reverend' Flagler who openly say a lot more hateful stuff. The difference is that Obama was close to these guys. There is no racial connotation with linking Ayers to Obama. The guy is a terrorist and Obama launched his political career in his living room. It the dirty secret, but its the truth. Its not dirty politics to bring the truth out. Its the same analogy as blaming the messenger.

That said, we have terrible candidates to choose from when country is in a recession. One is a black Marxist who hasn't accomplished anything as Bill Clinton said in his stumping for Hillary,and other is probably the lesser of two evils. Perhaps that is one of the reason why markets are tanking so badly.

take your fear of black people elsewhere.

take your fear of black people elsewhere

Typical...throwing racist accusation around when you can't deal with facts. I don't see you walking in middle of Detroit at night. Hypocrite.

Vic,

Try reading the post, the comments and keeping up with the news. This is not a "one side says...but the other side says" issue. No obama/biden campaign stops feature attendees expressing a desire to kill protesters and opposing candidates. None feature warm-up speakers, or questioners, who question the other candidate's ability to lead based on phrenology.

The reason you don't see me walking anywhere is because you're sitting at home, high on cheeto-dust no doubt, and pissing yourself at the prospect of black marxists breaking down the door and controlling the means of production. It's an unenviable situation I hope you are able to escape in the future.

I guess this does answer my question. Savage is ascendant!

Vic, seriously?? The type of bigotry in your comments is exactly what this post is against.

Video is up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g0d3_KE5js

How different is this from the prelude to Godhra or Babri?

And this is a civilized nation? A tolerant nation?

linky

wonder if America is ready for a black president, or will it show the true racial legacy of the icemans inheritance

The guy carrying the monkey in this video before he enters the rally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU

56 · Vic said

There's virulent hate on both sides. Lets not forget 'Reverend' Wright and 'Reverend' Flagler who openly say a lot more hateful stuff. The difference is that Obama was close to these guys. There is no racial connotation with linking Ayers to Obama. The guy is a terrorist and Obama launched his political career in his living room. It the dirty secret, but its the truth. Its not dirty politics to bring the truth out. Its the same analogy as blaming the messenger.

They didn't give you the secret decoder ring?
"Terrorist" = America Hater / Muslim / Bad Other
"Reverend Wright" = "bad" Black (and btw, if you've never thought "God Damn America" in your life, then there's a problem.)
I have no idea who Reverend Flagler is.

The point is not whether or not you raise perfectly legitimate issues like Obama's ties to Ayers (which are fairly minimal, but yes, Ayers did fundraise for him) but how you understand them and place them in context. Or: Yelling fire when there'es a fire and yelling fire when you're in a crowded theatre are two different things.

Does anyone think Obama is a radical terorrist? Does anyone think Obama is a Black nationalist? Does anyone think that Obama stands for the same things as these people are being used to invoke? if you do, you're not understanding Obama or the current climate very well - probably willfully because it's from so far out of rightfield that it.

On the other hand, when you're down 6-10 points in an election, enough to come close to guaranteeing that you're goinig to lose, and your party (and others) have been tossing out coded messages like "states rights" and "we wouldn't have had all these problems for so many years" and "McCain has an illegitimate Black baby" or "welfare queens" for forty years, and you speak to an audience of profoundly unhappy and angry people in an economic and political climate in which people are profoundly unhappy and angry and they start saying things that are quite frightening, to say or do nothing is illegitimate and irresponsible.

Even McCain and non-populist Republicans know this, which is why he and they finally said something, but not nearly enough. I think they're not quite ready to disavow the entire strategy on which their class politics rests.

13 · baplog said

I just watched the film idiocracy on hbo.

Maybe what we are seeing right now is life imitating art?

NOT SURE

McCain's tactics have blown up in his face. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind. This is not 1965 America, just after the Watts riots. Things have changed. Even the "crime" line tabled above by some bow-tied housies doesn't have the same resonance, because crime is way down nationally.

Where does he go now? Abortion? Pfft. He's looking very tired, which makes him all the more erratic.

That said, we have terrible candidates to choose from when country is in a recession.

x2

This last month has solidified my position that neither candidates are truly capable of being good executives (not that the outgoing president was, either). For things to be good, they have to be bad as well (ying-yang stuff). The country's DNA needs a little cleansing, while it's sad that things have to get really bad for them to clean house and improve, the half glass full optimist in myself thinks that if both political parties continue to muck it up , just maybe the type of real out of the box thinking that's needed may show up in DC. One thing is for sure, Barack Obama nor John McCain aren't the answers. As parties, both continue to fail the public with the same old rhetoric.

From a TIME Magazine reporter today:

The McCain campaign invited me to visit Frederick and the Gainesville operation on Saturday morning, to get a first-hand glimpse of its ground game in Prince William County, Virginia, a fast-growing area about 30 miles from Washington, D.C.

With so much at stake, and time running short, Frederick did not feel he had the luxury of subtlety. He climbed atop a folding chair to give 30 campaign volunteers who were about to go canvassing door to door their talking points — for instance, the connection between Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden: "Both have friends that bombed the Pentagon," he said. "That is scary." It is also not exactly true — though that distorted reference to Obama's controversial association with William Ayers, a former 60s radical, was enough to get the volunteers stoked. "And he won't salute the flag," one woman added, repeating another myth about Obama. She was quickly topped by a man who called out, "We don't even know where Senator Obama was really born." Actually, we do; it's Hawaii.

gujudude,

what do you do when you encounter statements like Vic's, where he says a few bigoted things and then one true thing, in public/social situations? Do you change the direction of the conversation so it trends toward the argument that the two-party system gives us something less than 2 quality choices? It's not like they would be able to engage solely in reasonable criticisms (i.e. ACORN is overloading inefficient state officials with a flurry of applications at the last minute and not scheming to insert their secret agent into the white house) I'm not ready to, RP-style, laud the conspiracy theorist for their small-gov't inclinations and turn a blind eye to the rank bigotry.

The guy carrying the monkey in this video before he enters the rally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU

Same guy has second thoughts when he is caught on camera again and peels off the Obama sticker and creepily passes the monkey to a kid.

neither candidates are truly capable of being good executives ...both continue to fail the public with the same old rhetoric.

Esqire "endores" Obama for Pres From the article:

In August, for whatever reason, he[Obama] went to the Reverend Rick Warren's Saddleback Church for a "forum" in front of people who have no more intention of voting for him than they do of erecting a statue to Baal.

Left,right and center-some people are really niave about America and where "we"- The American voting public is, as a whole,in regard to religion, as well as tolerance to change. I've sent in my absentee ballot a few days ago, Go Obama!!- yet, while my pan European co-workers engage in conversations about the US election, (when not watching the meltdown),I keep my own council. There is indeed a 'fierce urgency to now' and I don't mean race ,inclusiveness etc. I'm speaking of temperament, competence,a more apt world view, as well as acknowledgement that some things have gone very wrong- and misplaced scapegoats are not the way forward.

However the "change" has to be grounded in present day reality. "Man shot three times for wearing an Obama T-Shirt"- in London, England not Appalachia. All that to say, fundamental changes to any societydoes not happen in a vacumm,nor overnight.

I'm prouder I've always been proud ;-), when Americans of all stripes call out the Xenophobia, base elements etc that some feel a need to pander to.

Same guy has second thoughts when he is caught on camera again and peels off the Obama sticker and creepily passes the monkey to a kid.

Yeah, I watched that earlier today also! That has got to be one of the most interesting video clips I have ever seen.

47 · razib said

for all the nastiness, just look at this. i remember laughing when i heard barack hussein obama mooting the possibility of running for president in the fall of 2006 on a radio show. i mean, i be serious? but here we are....
amerika can surprise you.

very true. that obama's candidacy would bring out latent racism in the electorate was quite predictable. that a black man could seize the nomination and be in a position to take the prsidency via a landslide was not. if you were an historian, which would be the major theme?

and then there's his name. now, i never thought his race would prevent him form getting this far, but i didn't know how to measure the effect of his name. i mean you don't see joe hitler staleen running for the presidency of poland do you?

face it, a year ago, most of you were closer to dmx than you'd like to admit (though his last sentance appears eerily wise and prescient in hindsight) :

XXL: You're not? You know there's a black guy running, Barack Obama, and then there's Hillary Clinton.
DMX: His name is Barack?!

XXL: Barack Obama, yeah.
DMX: Barack?!...What the f*ck is Barack?! Barack Obama. Where is he from, Africa?

XXL: Yeah, his dad is from Kenya.
DMX: Barack Obama?...What the f*ck?! That ain't no f*ckin' name, yo. That ain't that n*gga's name. You can't be serious. Barack Obama. Get the f*ck outta here.

XXL: I mean, it's pretty big if a black...
DMX: Wow, Barack! The n*gga's name is Barack. Barack? N*gga named Barack Obama. What the f*ck, man?! Is he serious? That ain't his f*ckin' name. Ima tell this n*gga when I see him, 'Stop that bullshit. Stop that bullshit. That ain't your f*ckin name. Your momma ain't name you no damn Barack.'

XXL: But it would be pretty big if we had a first black president. That would be huge.
DMX: I mean, I guess...What, they gonna give a dog a bone? There you go. Ooh, we have a black president now. They should've done that shit a long time ago, we wouldn't be in the f*ckin' position we in now. With world war coming up right now. They done f*cked this shit up then give it to the black people, 'Here, you take it. Take my mess.'

I foresee a rush for OCI cards.

Just to complicate things even further, Barack is a Jewish name.

exaclty Manuju. Model minorities who IBank with perfect credit while being the new jews to save us from us from the housing crisis,while being held back due to affirmative action might have to re-calibrate a bit

I must give it to Wolf Blitzer - this morning he said that McCain should have first said (to the ed T-Shirt Arab-hater) is : First of , there is nothing wrong with Arabs....

Of the two, who could do this?

This is not a shock, in fact, it only legitimizes what we already know....Lots of groups that organize under the banner of religion and specifically religious nationalism want a Republican victory because it better serves their economic, caste, race and nationalist interests in their own local spaces, the speaker is a case in point. Hindutva( BJP, RSS, etc.)is another perfect example. Hindutva and the Republican Party are not opposing entities at all. That statement in fact shows solidarity with other exploitative religious nationalist regimes, not other "common" hindus, buddhists and muslims. When I see politicians show their support for religious diversity in the context of multiculturalism it reduces all issues to a tolerance for other religions: as if they are showing support for individuals who are freely practicing. That's not the case at all - they are double speaking, strategizing.

79 · Neale said

must give it to Wolf Blitzer - this morning he said that McCain should have first said (to the ed T-Shirt Arab-hater) is : First of , there is nothing wrong with Arabs....

actuallly, mccains response makes sense if the woman said "arab terrorist."

On the other hand, when you're down 6-10 points in an election, enough to come close to guaranteeing that you're goinig to lose, and your party (and others) have been tossing out coded messages like "states rights" and "we wouldn't have had all these problems for so many years" and "McCain has an illegitimate Black baby" or "welfare queens" for forty years, and you speak to an audience of profoundly unhappy and angry people in an economic and political climate in which people are profoundly unhappy and angry and they start saying things that are quite frightening, to say or do nothing is illegitimate and irresponsible.

I'd be happier and feel more comfortable about the state of racism in this country if McCain/Palin were down a lot more than 6 - 10 points. These are all youngish people, too, not about to fall off the perch.

All 50 state treasuries are failing to raise the billions needed just to keep functioning and pay the wages

just as we are finding interesting things like this...

Why isn't God intervening yet?

55 · Nayagan said

Though how, "you're not saved, therefore, after death, you're going to a place I regard to be the worst of all possible destinations" is any better than, "Our God will be pleased by his true believers' show of electoral force" I can't really tell.

It's far better. I would much rather take the threat of a McCain presidency in a non-existent afterlife than in 2009.

83 · Amrita said

I'd be happier and feel more comfortable about the state of racism in this country if McCain/Palin were down a lot more than 6 - 10 points. These are all youngish people, too, not about to fall off the perch.

the best metric i can think off for measuring the effect of racism on the election is to compare obama's numbers to a generic democrat, which reveals he's been consistently behind by about 4ish points. there could be other factors in play of course, mccain's theoretically stronger than a generic repub, obama theoretically less experienced,etc...but i'd have to assume race is the biggest factor.

then add to that the Bradley effect, if it exists at all, and you have some ballpark figure to get your head around.

72 · nil said

The guy carrying the monkey in this video before he enters the rally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU
Same guy has second thoughts when he is caught on camera again and peels off the Obama sticker and creepily passes the monkey to a kid.

Yeah, I watched that earlier today also! That has got to be one of the most interesting video clips I have ever seen.

That is odd. What happened to him between video 1 and 2? At first he's practically shoving the monkey into the camera, holding it like a trophy and waiving it around. By video 2 he looks like he just got caught masturbating. what accounts for this sudden progress? i mean, technically it is progress, no?

That is odd. What happened to him between video 1 and 2? At first he's practically shoving the monkey into the camera, holding it like a trophy and waiving it around. By video 2 he looks like he just got caught masturbating. what accounts for this sudden progress? i mean, technically it is progress, no?

I think you could write a whole paper on this. Here is my hypothesis:

He comes from a more homogeneous community, one where the sentiments he expresses are common or fall within the acceptable "norm." His first indication that his behavior might not be acceptable is where protesters across the street in the first clip start yelling "racist" at him. When most people get accused of something they either get initially angry, or play the demon and do it even more for the attention. Then it begins to set in that he is no longer in a group where his behavior is within the norm. The camera itself is such a powerful instrument. In the second clip guilt and then a bit of panic seem to set in. Its like he is going through the stages of understanding almost like a little kid.

Manju, the first video was taken by some random person on the street, the second video was taken by a news crew.

I love the arrogance on this guy, thinking that he can intimidate the Almighty. You can imagine God, out of shape, half-asleep on the couch in His dark and messy apartment at 2:30 on a weekday afternoon, covered in potato chip crumbs and crumpled-up soda cans, suddenly startling Himself awake:

"Holy crap, Pastor Jack Assington is right! I gotta get My **** together or else the Ay-rabs are gonna have a field day!"

*cue Survivor's "Eye of the Tiger" and montage of God drinking raw eggs, doing sit ups, jumping rope, etc.*

"Furthermore, all three of the Abrahamic religions worship the same God,"

This is true in only the most diplomatic manner of speaking, and it is otherwise a fiction that does not really aid in the understanding of these belief systems.

Unbelievable.

And is it just me or are these "town hall meetings" starting to take on an eerie resemblance to Klan rallies?

This is true in only the most diplomatic manner of speaking, and it is otherwise a fiction that does not really aid in the understanding of these belief systems.

If you think that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship three different Gods then it is you that don't understand the beliefs systems (or rather their origins).

i eagerly await the mccain camp's angry press release about blacks fanning the flames of racism by looking like monkeys and inviting these comparisons.

also, did that rove-looking philly racist contribute to the obama campaign by buying that sticker?

66 · Dr Amonymous said

Even McCain and non-populist Republicans know this, which is why he and they finally said something, but not nearly enough. I think they're not quite ready to disavow the entire strategy on which their class politics rests.

it is worse than that. there is a significant part of the republican party that looks up to palin with great admiration and hope for the future.

If you think that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship three different Gods then it is you that don't understand the beliefs systems (or rather their origins).

Agree. It is akin to asking if Catholics and Protestants worship the same God.

95 · i had a dream said

it is worse than that. there is a significant part of the republican party that looks up to palin with great admiration and hope for the future.

aware. From Twitter:

anamariecox: I feel a little like I'm at, um, some kind of rally. With lots of white people. There's a handy historical analog but I forget what it is... 06:36 PM October 09, 2008

71 · Nayagan said

gujudude,

what do you do when you encounter statements like Vic's, where he says a few bigoted things and then one true thing, in public/social situations? Do you change the direction of the conversation so it trends toward the argument that the two-party system gives us something less than 2 quality choices? It's not like they would be able to engage solely in reasonable criticisms (i.e. ACORN is overloading inefficient state officials with a flurry of applications at the last minute and not scheming to insert their secret agent into the white house) I'm not ready to, RP-style, laud the conspiracy theorist for their small-gov't inclinations and turn a blind eye to the rank bigotry.

Nayagan,

Comments should be dissected, as it is being done here. I haven't read all comments and didn't feel the need to dogpile on when you and Abhi have clearly stated what needed to be said. I actually quoted that part from your response and didn't even address the rest due the reason just stated.

I'm not trying to change the direction of a conversation or stopping anyone from calling out BS where they see it. My statement was what it was, nothing more, nothing less. If you think otherwise, you're looking too far into it. I've been pretty consistent in my displeasure with the current state of the two party system.

But if it's a requirement that I must join everyone here in saying racist comments are not welcome, you can count me in, didn't know it was mandatory though when commenting. I felt like commenting on that specific part of the statement and I did, within the bounds of the rules set here.

83 · Amrita said

I'd be happier and feel more comfortable about the state of racism in this country if McCain/Palin were down a lot more than 6 - 10 points. These are all youngish people, too, not about to fall off the perch.

Likewise. Now consider that if the financial crisis had taken a month or so more, McCain would still be winning and might have even won the election. And that the bulk of Americans don't know or acknowledge that their country is imperialist and destroys countless lives on a daily basis.

But to quote a famous idiot, you go to war with the society you have, not the society you want. Takes work over the long haul in the U.S. to remediate 40 years of pro-rich, anti-union, bigoted policies and strategies and wars. And it's already started in earnest, at least on some fronts - really we should be celebrating the first President of Color - even as we're afraid for his life.

You mean he wasn't trying to promote Hindu-Buddah-Allah unity with that invocation??

Hindu-Muslim bhai bhai, McCain-Palin bye bye.

Manju:

That is odd. What happened to him between video 1 and 2? At first he's practically shoving the monkey into the camera, holding it like a trophy and waving it around. By video 2 he looks like he just got caught masturbating. what accounts for this sudden progress? i mean, technically it is progress, no?

My inner 8-year-old is filled with glee at the linguistic finesse on display here.

Nayagan,

Just to clarify - I was not seconding the whole comment. I'm re-reading this thing and realized it come off that way. I didn't even read the original comment, rather I read your response and I quoted the statement from there and the specific sentence, minus the other stuff which you and Abhi had called out.

keeping them real, why are you confused? SM is comprised of individuals, not an Ideological Party. SM has India in common, but that's a wide net. There are countless species of fish in it, but generally those who comment on SM are well educated and inclined to be classist.
There is often much gnashing of teeth in angst-filled threads, dissecting perceived racist statements, but there's always at least one commenter who reminds the more toffee nosed among us that we love us some white trash jokes.
Possums, my investigative committee has revealed that whites, both trashy and toffee nosed, have been known to engage in black, brown and yellow jokes. Will we then hold court and find out whose jokes are the racistiest? As soon as the film crew and reporters go, the McCain crowd will exchange knowing looks and go on doing what floats their boats. I'll bet they keep those damn stuffed monkey's. WTF cares? Chimpy Bush, the current POTUS, never got bent out of shape about his nickname.

Mr. Obama has a natural fan base here because: he's a Harvard graduate, impresses many with his oratory, seems sophisitcated and intellectual, is partly non-xtian, lived in Indonesia and other foreign parts, is brown of color and of complex racial origins, though I just read that his classmates in Hawaii saw him as more or less white. That's a stretch, but I think I know what they mean. They also thought he was a whiner, which is not a stretch.

At the risk of provoking verbal fisticuffs with his fan club, there are some valid issues posed by non-supporters of Obama, which the DNP has not addressed. They'll continue to be ignored and come out in various unauthorized biographies starting about now. Every candidate gets that honor. The press, refusing to engage in systemic racism, dismisses any criticism as smears. Could this be a conspiracy? Nah. It's the market, stupid. Time for Mr. Change. Hmmm-when did this happen most recently? Oh yes, 1992. The boy from Hope, AK. Bill the porn star.

Somebody has already opined that Mccain was chosen because he would not be popular--actually he's turned out to be more popular than they thought he'd be and he's got his opponents discombobulated, even me. Plan was, this unpopularity would allow the Democratic candidate--a media creation for the most part--to win, ala Jimmy Carter, ultimately leaving people so appalled by the results that we get stuck with 12 years of Republicans.

Since no viable 3rd party candidate is on offer, yours truly will sit this one out. I'd like to get all misty eyed over Barry, but somehow he doesn't do it for me. His policies are not so much different from McCain as you might think, just his style is different. Bailout anyone? Each man, woman and child are now paying a couple thousand dollars to keep Wall st. bankers in the style to which they are accustomed. Both McCain and Obama totally ignored the millions of people who contacted Congress in protest. Even if I knew nothing else, that told me all I need to know.
Foreign policy? If his handlers wanted to nuke Pahk-ish-stahn, he'd go along with it. He'll have no choice; but at least he'll pronounce it properly.

Even with no foreclosure looming, one might feel depressed.
But no. During this campaign, I got religion. I'd been atheist but now I see the light. The media is god. It giveth and it taketh away. It tooketh away from HC because she was more of the same and gaveth to BO because he sure was different. This god will continue to giveth to Obama as long as Obama obeys it.

obama has to do damage control on a constant basis. because repubs are investigating everyone he even glanced at or went to 3rd grade with

Maybe they should be investigating these guys instead:

More than 30,000 Florida felons who by law should have been stripped of their right to vote remain registered to cast ballots in this presidential battleground state, a Sun Sentinel investigation has found.

Of the felons who registered with a party, Democrats outnumber Republicans more than two to one.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbfelons1012sboct12,0,3762352.story

93 · Abhi said

If you think that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship three different Gods then it is you that don't understand the beliefs systems (or rather their origins).

Hmmm, that seems a little contentious and I did not intend to insult you.

The fact is, however, it comes to mind that there are some fundamental foundational differences regarding God in these religions. Much more difference than between Catholics and Protestants, contrary to what one poster suggested.

Christianity: For the Christians, God has visited earth in the form of Jesus Christ, a human who is also God incarnate. Neither of the other two believe this. Jesus Christ is at the heart of Christianity.

Islam: The Islamic God was delivered in part through the prophecy of Muhammed, a figure that neither of the other religions acknowledge. The other part came from local beliefs such as Hubal the moon deity (giving Islam the Kabah, the crescent), which does not figure in the other two.

Judaism: Abraham is the patriarch of the Torah and to suggest the other two regard him as a prophet in similar regard is to undermine his statue. After all he entered the covenant with Yahweh for his people.

The Bahai, the Samaritanis, Noahchide Faith, Rastafarianism, Mormonism, and others are all Abrahamic, but it would be too simplistic to say they all worship the same God.

Let's get few things out of the way. In the history of our republic, there are four major events - the Revolution, the Civil War, the New Deal, and then the Civil Rights movement. The ideals espoused - however sincerely - were still pathbreaking simply because they were espoused at all = imagine no torture, freedom of speech and assembly, etc...But it was not to be and it took the Civil War to abolish slavery, but the battle wasn't ended, what about the bigger battle to ensure a more opportunity when the land had populated so much that you could not simply pack up and move away, so we had the robber barons, and the the Crash of 1929, and then came the next major event - the New Deal. But still America did not mean the same thing for all people and so after great struggle, this time peacefully, came the Civil Rights movement. So from 1932 to 1980, for almost 1/2 a century, the structures that the Dems and FDR built created the America we live in today and the Civil Rights movement too ensured that the state became equitable - but then reaction set in - and having lost the intllectual battle, the reactionaries decided to counter progress with asymmetrry and so we had a B-grade cue-card reader with no claims to intellect. Naturally the progress-stoppers felt great - notice how raptorous they wax over some of the most cliched and jejune tripe that was belted out back in the day. Of course in the meanwhile Tricky Dick came and went and his supporters realised that intellect was not enough. So in 1980 we embarked on a faux Deal - big Deal! Claiming to have an answer for everything we saw some particularly harebrained schemes in economics, society, and foreign relations. All of them lie in tatters today. As we try to pick up the pieces we have today learnt that when great profound and noble ideas fall prey to glitter, we get something that looks like a movement, but is actually a racket.

106 · jyotsana Let's get few things out of the way. In the history of our republic, there are four major events - the Revolution, the Civil War, the New Deal, and then the Civil Rights movement.

Gee-whiz, somebody read a book by Bruce Ackerman. . . .

In the history of our republic, there are four major events - the Revolution, the Civil War, the New Deal, and then the Civil Rights

You forgot the WWI,II, and the cold war in particular, since that--anti-communism- had an important, often bipartisn, ideological framework (MAD, containment,etc), as well as led to very important international alliances (nato) that still hold today. Its foriegn policy, to be sure, but it certainly changed the fabric of america domestically.

i don't know what you'd call the ecomomic liberlisation begun under reagan, but since it was more or less embraced by the likes of clinton (welfare reform, nafta, repeal of glass-steagel) and, more importantly, led to globalization and thus to the dominant international econmic ideology (neo-liberalism, if you will) of our time, one that faces its first crises, i don't think it can be ignored.

i'm necessarly arguing these events were good (as i think you are), though i think they are, but they were certainly as important in crafting the nature of our republic as the ones you mentioned. I would add the slave trade but that's probably covered under the civil war (and not good).

too often, these rednecks have been derided as incapable of complex thought, and of accommodating or reconciling two opposing ideas in their head. thankfully, the age of obama has conclusively disproved this notion about the rednecks. they are able to think of him as an arab and a muslim, as well as a black and a christian with an angry racist preacher intent on bringing destruction to america.

102 · GujuDude said

Nayagan,

Just to clarify - I was not seconding the whole comment. I'm re-reading this thing and realized it come off that way. I didn't even read the original comment, rather I read your response and I quoted the statement from there and the specific sentence, minus the other stuff which you and Abhi had called out.

I was asking you an honest question--as in on online forums, this piecemeal engagement approach is standard (and not possible IRL). Expected an answer which didn't already go over things that I know. Nice smack-down, however, which I will note the next time I consider asking for advice.

Bruce Ackerman? Who is that?

Manju,

WW2 and the Cold War seem bigger than they are, but really aren't as important as the currents that they floated on - the New Deal and the Civil Rights movement. What do I call the the ecomomic liberlisation begun under reagan - harebrained! Just like everything else that GOPers did. The last decent + smart GOP administration was Eisenhower's. The last smart one was Nixon's. It's been downhill all the way since then.

106 · jyotsana said

Let's get few things out of the way. In the history of our republic, there are four major events - the Revolution, the Civil War, the New Deal, and then the Civil Rights movement. The ideals espoused - however sincerely - were still pathbreaking simply because they were espoused at all = imagine no torture, freedom of speech and assembly, etc...But it was not to be and it took the Civil War to abolish slavery, but the battle wasn't ended, what about the bigger battle to ensure a more opportunity when the land had populated so much that you could not simply pack up and move away, so we had the robber barons, and the the Crash of 1929, and then came the next major event - the New Deal. But still America did not mean the same thing for all people and so after great struggle, this time peacefully, came the Civil Rights movement. So from 1932 to 1980, for almost 1/2 a century, the structures that the Dems and FDR built created the America we live in today and the Civil Rights movement too ensured that the state became equitable - but then reaction set in - and having lost the intllectual battle, the reactionaries decided to counter progress with asymmetrry and so we had a B-grade cue-card reader with no claims to intellect. Naturally the progress-stoppers felt great - notice how raptorous they wax over some of the most cliched and jejune tripe that was belted out back in the day. Of course in the meanwhile Tricky Dick came and went and his supporters realised that intellect was not enough. So in 1980 we embarked on a faux Deal - big Deal! Claiming to have an answer for everything we saw some particularly harebrained schemes in economics, society, and foreign relations. All of them lie in tatters today. As we try to pick up the pieces we have today learnt that when great profound and noble ideas fall prey to glitter, we get something that looks like a movement, but is actually a racket.

I'm not going to get in a long argument about this account of history, but let me simply say that it's a great deal more complex than giving a single story about "our" republic that pinpoints four major events/periods and you're conflating a mythological story with an account of politics and economics and social complexity. A better (still imperfect) periodization of a grand narrative if you want to put one together might be: Up to the mid 1700s (colonizaton); mid 1700s to 1800 (political independence and development of government institutions to first transfer of power); 1800 to 1854 (states rights / slavery / sectional disputes); 1854 to 1876 (civil war and reconstruction); 1876-1914 (triump of big capital and the emergence of discontents and U.S. economic ascendancy); 1914-1949 (depression, isolationsism and emergence of U.S. as political global hegemon - with wars inclusive); and 1949 to 1980 (triumph of Cold War liberal capitalism) (1980 - 2007/8 (triumph of reaction), end of the Cold War).

As you can see, my account is both overly detailed and still incomplete, imprecise in its dates, doesn't account for overlaps, and I have poor knowledge of colonial history, among many other things. It loses a lot of complexity that might be of interest to people who read this site: for example, in "our" republic, our grandparents and those of others from Asia were legally banned from emigrating here from @1880 to @1965. Where does the suffragist movement fit into this? Operation Weback and the Japanese internments? The Monroe Doctrine and the history of U.S. imperialism in general? How about the early 20th century progressive movement? The story of American Indians? There are many other strands that you could choose to emphasize in telling the story.

All of which is to point out that history is hard to boil down to a few parapraphs - so it should ideally be done as well as possible and with a self-conscious understanding of the purposes for which you're buillding your narrative.

I was asking you an honest question--as in on online forums, this piecemeal engagement approach is standard (and not possible IRL). Expected an answer which didn't already go over things that I know. Nice smack-down, however, which I will note the next time I consider asking for advice.

Nayagan,

Here are honest answers to your question, seems like I'm having trouble capturing the tone of your question (it sounded like something else in my mind), but if you say it was honest and straight forward, then I'm certainly remiss in my assessment-

what do you do when you encounter statements like Vic's, where he says a few bigoted things and then one true thing, in public/social situations?

Generally, I'll point it out and depending on the body language (negative or positive) or the situation (work, a wedding, among friends at a bar, been invited to a place but don't know anybody, etc) either press further or just point out why I disagree, don't think it's right, etc. and drive on. On occasions when I'm on the fringe of a discussion or just someone standing there and listening on the side lines, I'll make a mental note of it and not insert myself into the discussion.

Do you change the direction of the conversation so it trends toward the argument that the two-party system gives us something less than 2 quality choices?

In a public/social conversation, I'll try to avoid trending the conversation any direction, unless I'm the one that's leading the discussion (or one of the primary participants). I said, "try", because I'm far from perfect and have done so in the past when an issue is near/dear to me. Maybe this is one of those situations and it would be misconstrued as approval of the statement in its totality.

http://current.com/items/89393772_racist_obama_billboard_causes_outrage

I will pay good money to have that caricature on a teeshirt with a really nice desi caption (can we have a friday caption contest?)

He looks like an Indian farmer who just had a bumper crop!

114 · suede said

http://current.com/items/89393772_racist_obama_billboard_causes_outrage

I will pay good money to have that caricature on a teeshirt with a really nice desi caption (can we have a friday caption contest?)

He looks like an Indian farmer who just had a bumper crop!

How about "Desis for teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs." or "They said it was funny when the New Yorker did it."

115 · Dr Amonymous said

"They said it was funny when the New Yorker did it."

I assume that this tee comes with a hat that says "Irony-free zone"?

P.S: You seriously think that this poster has exactly the same intent and motivation as the New Yorker cover? (Of course, the New Yorker cover was a seriously botched attempt at humor, but it doesn't mean that it was malevolent.)

116 · you did? said

I assume that this tee comes with a hat that says "Irony-free zone"?

P.S: You seriously think that this poster has exactly the same intent and motivation as the New Yorker cover? (Of course, the New Yorker cover was a seriously botched attempt at humor, but it doesn't mean that it was malevolent.)

Irony dude. I was pointing out how seriously botched the New Yorker cover was, and why the intent is irrelevant in this context.

Totally off-topic comment which might be deleted later tonight:

In six minutes (six minutes...six minutes...Doug E. Fresh you're on...) we will be live-blogging the debate-- well, live-MICRO-blogging would be more accurate-- via our Twitter.

What is Twitter?

Twitter is a free social networking and micro-blogging service that allows users to send "updates" (or "tweets"; text-based posts, up to 140 characters long) to the Twitter website, via short message service, instant messaging, or a third-party application such as Twitterrific. [viki]

Last time we posted about 20 updates...this time, who knows? :)

Congratulations to President Barack Obama.

That is all.

119 · debate summary said

Congratulations to President Barack Obama.

That is all.

..

See, I haven't decided that's the case yet.

i never get these debates right. i thought bush was roadkill against gore, only to wake up the next morning to realize everyone thought gore a rude putz. thought the last O-Mac debate was about even, only to lean everyone was pissed at Mac for not looking O in the eye, something I never noticed. i did notice biden tear up against palin, so it didn't surprise me that he won, but personally i didn't care.

so this time, i watched it like the rest of you do. on split screen tv, like they had on cnn, holy crap. Mac looks looney, blinking, sniffing and snorting, smiling and wheezing. then you look at O and he's just calmly enjoying a valium buzz.

that's how you win the prez, i guess. game set...