The NYT article describes him abusing her as "a violent domestic quarrel". Lovely.

My 2 paise: I haven't seen any difference between ABDs and Indians in India when it comes to misogyny. All the same.

This pretty much sums up everything that scares me about arranged marriages. Poor thing :(

Thank you for writing this article Anna. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this senseless crime.

What a nightmare. :( I hope that they catch that creep, and that he discovers unending hell in prison.

Sunil said

I haven't seen any difference between ABDs and Indians in India when it comes to misogyny. All the same.

Gee, thanks. Maybe you should get out more.

Tragic. One thing she could have done is to move back to India where firearms are not easily available.

@Caramelmoiselle You think this is a product of an arranged marriage? You think the chances of that happening with love marriages won't happen? Phulllleezzzzzzz

i will post the number at the libraries and supermarkets. hopefully the south asian markets will be willing to post it too.

I was watching the story on the news last night and it just hit me so hard. I had an aunt (by marriage) who had to leave her abusive husband - who was actually my relative. She was able to escape her situation with the help of Sakhi and now she's doing well in a happy new marriage with a baby. She may have married into our family, but we all love her like blood. But I don't know how any of us could have looked at ourselves in the mirror had something like this happened to her.

I kept repeating this guy's license plate in my head over and over just in case I saw him while I was driving around last night.

I've been looking for info as to whether they've caught him or not - does anyone know?

Hi Anna,

I would first of all like to thank you for writing this article and bringing this issue to light. You would be surprised at how many members of the South Asian community would rather sweep such incidents under the rug or not really speak about it.

However, that being said, I think it’s unfortunate that the only time we ever DO talk about the issue is when it’s too late. Whenever a murder or awful incident such as this comes out in the media, all of us are quick to add our comments. But then a few days go by and we completely forget that this is an ongoing problem in our community.

Out Against Abuse (www.outagainstabuse.com) is a website and blog forum focused on addressing these issues and keeping communication and conversation ONGOING regarding domestic violence issues and how members of the South Asian community can become more involved in eliminating it from our community.

Out Against Abuse touches on an array of questions, such as Why Do Women Choose to Stay (http://www.outagainstabuse.com/2008/03/30/why-do-they-stay/) and the ongoing problems of gender abuse still present in India due to patriarchal society (http://www.outagainstabuse.com/2008/08/27/in-india-new-opportunities-for-women-draw-anger-and-abuse-from-men/).

We also have received numerous survivor emails and questions and have been able to connect them with the appropriate resources. If you or anyone you know is going through abuse but is scared to admit it or even seek help, please do visit the website as it allows the ability to ask questions and leave comments anonymously.

Again, domestic violence is an increasing problem that still exists in both the first and second generation South Asian community and it is our responsibility to work towards its elimination.

Please email us at info@outagainstabuse.com if you have any further questions.

~ Out Against Abuse

This is so sad. I live in North Carolina where we have just (re)generated the organization KIRAN, that serves South Asian victims of domestic violence. At our launch party last week, we heard the story of a survivor who met and fell in love with her abusive husband - but after marriage, he changed for the worse. So, this is not just the product of arranged unions, in fact, patters of violence are cyclical. How many of our desi friends or us have been in relationships with a fellow South Asian where the partner uses verbal abuse, insults, making one feel like they are less....this is also a form of intimate partner violence.

Its not just about PSAs and non-profits-the need for community education is deeper that that. We have to engage men, women, and gay, straight, questioning, young and old in a dialogue. There are many forms of violence. In the few short months KIRAN has been operating I have witnessed just how pervasive this problem is, even in "podunk" North Carolina, with relatively smaller numbers of South Asians than other states.

I'm all in favor of guerilla marketing - slapping posters in bathroom stalls, stickers with hotline phone numbers on every available surface, ads in desi news publications and on the radio. People need to know that help, even just a well-trained ear to listen, is available.

2 · Caramelmoiselle said

This pretty much sums up everything that scares me about arranged marriages. Poor thing :(

Yup...this is what puts me off from arranged marriages too. I don't know about this case but in most cases the wife is not financially independent and this puts her at the mercy of an abusive husband. But one should also not overlook the other end where there is "soft" domestic voilence in many households. I guess parents should teach kids the importance of love and respect for the other.

But I guess this can happen in love marriages (maybe with less probability) too. I think it is purely the problem of personality and character of the person involved. And maybe also influenced by the background of the person involved.

This is sickening. The rage and purpose to destroy in this man is beyond belief. God bless all the support groups around the world, there is a hell of a lot more work to do.

I hope this creep is caught and put in prison with bubba and all the others where he will hopefully learn why domestic violence is not a good thing. God will deal with him as far as the innocent lives he's taken.

2 · Caramelmoiselle said

This pretty much sums up everything that scares me about arranged marriages. Poor thing :(

I think I know what you mean, but I also think that this is a problematic direction to go in, because it stigmatizes such unions (many of which in my immediate group of ABD cousins have worked out beautifully) and might imply that partner violence doesn't happen in so-called "love marriages". I've experienced domestic violence at the hands of three people; I wasn't in an arranged marriage with any of them. I tried to be very careful about this angle, because I noticed how it was in every article I was sifting through. It's so easy to pack things up nicely in a box and think "this is more likely in an arranged marriage or if (insert something here which isn't immediately relevant to us)"; then we feel safer, but we're actually doing ourselves (and each other) a disservice by that process. Domestic violence can be everywhere, regardless of the type of relationship or how it started.

5 · Ponniyin Selvan said

Tragic. One thing she could have done is to move back to India where firearms are not easily available.

But...we do have kerosene and acid in India. If someone wanted to kill their wife this badly, I think they'd find a way. Additionally, for all we know, she might have been trying to go back to India... :(

7 · Raj said

i will post the number at the libraries and supermarkets. hopefully the south asian markets will be willing to post it too.

That's an excellent, concrete step we can take. Thank you for leaving this comment and having that intention.

8 · Fuerza Dulce said

I've been looking for info as to whether they've caught him or not - does anyone know?

As of 6am last night, no, but I haven't scanned anything today...I'm sure we'll hear about it if they do catch him, either here in the comments or via the tip line. Good on you for memorizing his license plate number (and supporting your Aunt).

9 · OutAgainstAbuse said

I would first of all like to thank you for writing this article and bringing this issue to light. You would be surprised at how many members of the South Asian community would rather sweep such incidents under the rug or not really speak about it.

However, that being said, I think it’s unfortunate that the only time we ever DO talk about the issue is when it’s too late. Whenever a murder or awful incident such as this comes out in the media, all of us are quick to add our comments. But then a few days go by and we completely forget that this is an ongoing problem in our community.

Well, I would like to say you are welcome, it was the least I could do (since I was so bothered by this, I couldn't sleep) and your comment is a good introduction to the resources your site offers.

Actually, I am not surprised at how many members of our community would rather sweep such incidents under the rug or treat them with silence, and I sincerely tried to convey as much in my post, even though in the end that didn't seem to be the case with Reshma. As for your second paragraph, I agree, it's unfortunate that tragedies are the catalyst for necessary conversations, but I like to look at this and be thankful that we're conversing, period, since it's vital that we do. Some of us may not forget that it's an ongoing problem in our community-- some of us may not know what to do, which is why I think Raj's and your comments are productive.

10 · Avani said

Its not just about PSAs and non-profits-the need for community education is deeper that that. We have to engage men, women, and gay, straight, questioning, young and old in a dialogue.

I agree. I was trying to express how frustrating it is to grow up here, see the ads (and even the guerilla marketing), read about the non-profits in India Abroad, watch movies or television shows ("Tonight, on a very special Degrassi..."), learn about it in school and otherwise be surrounded by reminders that DV is unacceptable...and still see our peers harming their partners or families. Creating a space for dialog is exactly what we're trying to do, because we simply must.

anna, you said "We need to switch the burden of shame from the victim to the abuser, to call out such behavior collectively and condemn it, thoroughly, until it stops."

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. But it's complicated, isn't it? I cannot speculate at this point about his own feelings (apart from destructive and murderous), but could he not have been responding to a sense of shame in his own behaviour? In other words, he might have been so embarrassed by his wife's departure--a kind of public announcement of his abusive actions, that he sought to bring her back home, back into line.

What I am saying is, perhaps shame is not the right goal or the right question?? I am thinking aloud here...don't really know what I think.

In a related way, I have often thought that victims of rape should hopefully not opt for anonymity because that reinforces the whole shame aspect--as if they should indeed be ashamed for their victimization. Obviously I support their assertion of anonymity in the courts and the press, but i think that improvements won't be made in societal attitudes towards rape and domestic abuse until more women join the vanguard to show that there is no "shame" in being a victim of abuse or violence.

Sadly, tragic violence such as this is part of why women tend to choose anonymity in their victimhood.

16 · surya said

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. But it's complicated, isn't it? I cannot speculate at this point about his own feelings (apart from destructive and murderous), but could he not have been responding to a sense of shame in his own behaviour? In other words, he might have been so embarrassed by his wife's departure--a kind of public announcement of his abusive actions, that he sought to bring her back home, back into line.

It is complicated. So very complicated. I hadn't thought of that angle, so I'm glad you brought it up. But, I also wonder...if he felt so ashamed, why not take his own life? People (here and in India) had known about their problems from the start, so it's not like this was an abrupt, heated thing that had just occurred (not that you were implying that)...I don't know. It all seems so premeditated, I mean, he procured a gun and drove 3,000 miles, to issue an ultimatum and then kill her (and anyone who dared stand in his way); that kind of trajectory doesn't imply "bringing her back home" so much as, "Bitch, I'll show you..." or "If I can't have you..."

What I am saying is, perhaps shame is not the right goal or the right question?? I am thinking aloud here...don't really know what I think.

My whole post was thinking aloud, so I'm right there with you. I've been dazed since yesterday, so it's entirely possible I'm not asking the right questions. I think I went with shame because I wish DV was as taboo for us as something as simple as dropping a book; we've been taught from a young age that we must respect books, and we reflexively feel bad when we don't, even if it was an accident. I wish we valued each other as much as we value our books. If we can teach toddlers to ask for forgiveness for stepping on a book, can't we also teach them that hurting each other is wrong? :\

But...we do have kerosene and acid in India. If someone wanted to kill their wife this badly, I think they'd find a way. Additionally, for all we know, she might have been trying to go back to India... :(

That's right. But It won't be that easy (or fatal) as committing the crime with the gun. This guy could have been over powered easily if she had the circle of relatives to protect her in case of a weapon other than the gun.

I agree that the real solution requires a change in attitudes and behavior.

8 · Fuerza Dulce said

She was able to escape her situation with the help of Sakhi and now she's doing well in a happy new marriage with a baby

This is exactly the solution that has to be grounded with Indian families that marriage is not something so sacred that cannot and shouldn't be broken when need arises. No doubt when someone marries it is good to hope that one will happily be married with the one forever but families and people involved shouldn't expect that it will last forever if there is no love &respect. The traditional belief amongst Indians that it should be forever is what creates pressure on the institution of marriage and perpetuates such crimes.

I haven't seen any difference between ABDs and Indians in India when it comes to misogyny. All the same.

I would be very interested in seeing statistics re abuse between the two countries, or even globally. I will not be surprised if they are about the same, at least at the lower socio-economic levels. I saw a PBS program about domestic abuse a couple of years ago and it is shocking how much stuff goes on in spite of all the resources available in this country. I am not convinced this is a desi issue (but would like to see concrete evidence).

I am not convinced this is a desi issue

Domestic voilence perse is not a desi issues. But there maybe some "conditions" & "situations" in Indian families and traditions that can it desi men's procilivity to domestic voilence. It is said that man's work outside home can be a cause of domestic voilence. For e.g. football players are prone to domestic voilence.

Actually Indian families should also think in terms of visiting family therapists and mental health practioners. Sometimes visiting such "non-biological" treatments/doctors is frowned upon in Indian families.

whoops the comment was supposed to look like this:

21 · Divya said

I haven't seen any difference between ABDs and Indians in India when it comes to misogyny. All the same. I would be very interested in seeing statistics re abuse between the two countries, or even globally. I will not be surprised if they are about the same, at least at the lower socio-economic levels. I saw a PBS program about domestic abuse a couple of years ago and it is shocking how much stuff goes on in spite of all the resources available in this country. I am not convinced this is a desi issue (but would like to see concrete evidence).

Research done on DV indicates that the likelihood of abuse does not change with socioeconomic status. It might seem like people in higher socioeconomic levels have lower rates of DV, but actually they are less likely to report it for several reasons. This is another reason DV needs to become part of a more visible discussion - since its something that occurs at home and in the private sphere, it's so easy for it to remain hidden.

Also, I highly doubt it's soley a "desi" issue - I'm guessing Western media plays up any instances of DV when it comes to brown couples (you know, proving the whole submissive Asian woman, chauvinistic brown male image). But any coverage of DV is appreciated, especially when they refer to it as Domestic Violence and not some silly euphemism. The only reason I can see it being solely a brown issue is that South Asians are even less likely to discuss it, making it harder for women to get resources and it resulting in incidents like this, when it's too late.

Divya:
I would be very interested in seeing statistics re abuse between the two countries, or even globally.

Divya, don't know about globally, but here is the national statistic: 4 out of 10 Indian women between the ages of 15 and 49 have experienced domestic violence of some sort or the other during their lifetime. (http://www.nfhsindia.org/ )

40%.

Can you believe that? 2 out of 5 women - TWO out of FIVE just under HALF of all women between 15 and 49. I just found this out while researchign about the PWDV Act 2005 in India. This is not a number - it's just an abomination. For me and a lot of women I know who have grown up in families where we have had only love from everyone, the harsh reality that nearly half the women in India have to deal with economic, sexual, psychological abuse is enough to make my head spin.

But any coverage of DV is appreciated, especially when they refer to it as Domestic Violence and not some silly euphemism.

True. I didn't mean to say that it should not have been covered by SM. Interesting that there's no difference with socio-economic status.

It's interesting that the discussion has progressed to identifying whether DV is soely a "desi" issue. I agree with Kam that it definitely is not. In fact, the NY times just published an article yesterday outlining the spike in domestic abuse incidents from military officers.

Domestic violence is something that unfortunately prevails in all communities. However, it is true that the South Asian community works to smother the issue more so than bring light to it.

As for your second paragraph, I agree, it's unfortunate that tragedies are the catalyst for necessary conversations, but I like to look at this and be thankful that we're conversing, period, since it's vital that we do

Anna, I agree with your comment and I think it is great that so many people are speaking out and offering their opinions. I think what I meant to convey was such conversations should continue to take place always so that we continuously work towards prevention of such incidents.

Just to be clear-- it was readers who sent in tips who characterized this as a desi issue. I think that all of us in the bunker are aware that DV cuts across ethnic, socio-economic, sexual and gender lines.

Still, there are specific angles to this heartbreaking issue which have relevance to our community. Like...

20 · Bridget Jones said

This is exactly the solution that has to be grounded with Indian families that marriage is not something so sacred that cannot and shouldn't be broken when need arises...The traditional belief amongst Indians that it should be forever is what creates pressure on the institution of marriage and perpetuates such crimes.

And...

9 · OutAgainstAbuse said

Out Against Abuse touches on an array of questions, such as Why Do Women Choose to Stay (http://www.outagainstabuse.com/2008/03/30/why-do-they-stay/) and the ongoing problems of gender abuse still present in India due to patriarchal society (http://www.outagainstabuse.com/2008/08/27/in-india-new-opportunities-for-women-draw-anger-and-abuse-from-men/).

As well as...

24 · Kam said

South Asians are even less likely to discuss it, making it harder for women to get resources and it resulting in incidents like this, when it's too late.

Divya and others,

We've written about domestic violence in South Asia before: Wifebeating in India (updated w/ child abuse figures), Wifebeating worldwide, National Sexual Assault Awareness Month. The first two links refer directly to studies, the third lists a number of claims and links to other sources for them.

Using figures from the NEJM:

37.2% of women in India who have been married have experienced spousal violence. [Link]

Using figures from the WHO survey on domestic abuse cross-nationally we find that domestic violence in urban Bangladesh is worse than any of the six other countries where urban domestic violence was measured (Peru, Tanzania, Thailand, Brazil, Serbia, Japan), and domestic violence in rural Bangladesh is the third worst of the relevant eight countries, after Ethiopia and Peru. [link]

I've never seen a study that involved figures that were directly comparable to the US, largely because definitions and methodology varies. Still, we get a sense that South Asian countries probably in the worst quartile of countries. Both of the posts I wrote also give a bit of a sense of variation within the country. It's worth clicking through and reading.

Kam said:

Also, I highly doubt it's soley a "desi" issue - I'm guessing Western media plays up any instances of DV when it comes to brown couples (you know, proving the whole submissive Asian woman, chauvinistic brown male image).

Nicely said. However as prejudiced as the media is we need to acknowledge the awful statistics. I have two sons and the best thing they can learn is respect and love is not just for Mom and Dad and relatives but also for your future girlfriend/wife.

I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior from my sons but sadly not everyone believes this is something we should even talk about. This is why I think so many ABD females buy into the stereotypes that most(DBD & ABD)Men are abusive and all non-Desi men aren't.

How tragic. How awful that this poor woman could do nothing to protect herself from this monster.

22 · Bridget Jones said

I am not convinced this is a desi issue

Domestic voilence perse is not a desi issues. But there maybe some "conditions" & "situations" in Indian families and traditions that can it desi men's procilivity to domestic voilence. .

The same of course can be said of a desi woman's proclivity towards abuse (of her children most likely). The shame and 'hush-hush' manner of our community is a toxic one that allows such abuses to occur far longer than they need be.

There are some differences between 2nd generation ABD and Indians in India - The first are raised by immigrants who moved from India some 20-30 years ago with the 20-30 year old Indian values esp. to shield them from the "bad" American influences. The second are raised by Indians who entertain the western culture. Hence, the overall misogynist attitude might be more pronounced in the former group.

Please do note that I am talking about the same segments of respective societies. India does have a big problem with the lower middle class (and below) section of the society with regards to their treatment of women.

31 · Shalu said

The shame and 'hush-hush' manner of our community is a toxic one that allows such abuses to occur far longer than they need be.

True. The reason for this because as much as there is strength in the "Indian" family system, sometimes most couples make too much effort in keeping their extended family (parents, in-laws or close relatives) happy or worry too much what these folks say or think. This is another reason why sometime DV or other crimes within family perpetuates

32 · AB said

There are some differences between 2nd generation ABD and Indians in India - The first are raised by immigrants who moved from India some 20-30 years ago with the 20-30 year old Indian values esp. to shield them from the "bad" American influences. The second are raised by Indians who entertain the western culture. Hence, the overall misogynist attitude might be more pronounced in the former group.

Despite the "might be" and the specifics of this sad case, I call bullshit.

Please do note that I am talking about the same segments of respective societies. India does have a big problem with the lower middle class (and below) section of the society with regards to their treatment of women.

Bullshit, again.

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but it seems restraining orders and calling the police has done little to protect those under the threat of abusive spouses - preventive measures that provide nothing more than palliative relief. The best thing for Reshma, in my opinion, was to arm herself with a gun. The same goes for the parishoners. I believe the United States needs a nationwide concealed weapons law.

Agree with #36 above. The middle and upper classes are able to hush it up more thats all. This is NOT a DBD ABD arranged/love marriage issue-its present in all cultures and societies. Lets stop beating ourselves up. No amount of background checks will bring this kind of thing up unless they can maybe dig up some exgirlfriend and who does that while setting up arranged marriages anyway. I hope they catch the guy before he kills himself or others and I hope he lives to drop some soap in the bathroom in prison....

I accept the figures on South Asian spousal abuse and understand there are South Asian specific dynamics like joint families, dowry "purity" etc. But when we start discussing premeditated murder in the US, which unlike India has functioning criminal justice system, it is hard for me to understand how PSAs, let alone ones that are desi targeted, would have any impact. This guy is nuts and is beyond the reach of reason,education or threats. Beating/killing a wife to extract dowry is desi, this type of act is not peculiar to us

37 · niraj said

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but it seems restraining orders and calling the police has done little to protect those under the threat of abusive spouses - preventive measures that provide nothing more than palliative relief. The best thing for Reshma, in my opinion, was to arm herself with a gun. The same goes for the parishoners. I believe the United States needs a nationwide concealed weapons law.

41 · Ennis said

Violence by women is simply more hidden

Not really...in the absence of men in the house, sometimes there is lot of warfare betwen mother-in-law and wife in household affairs that can sometime take a bad turn.

40 · Shalu said

37 · niraj said

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but it seems restraining orders and calling the police has done little to protect those under the threat of abusive spouses - preventive measures that provide nothing more than palliative relief. The best thing for Reshma, in my opinion, was to arm herself with a gun. The same goes for the parishoners. I believe the United States needs a nationwide concealed weapons law.

while it seems that this is certainly the only way Reshma could have protected herself-- isn't it sad that he was allowed to legally own a gun in the first place?

No, it was not sad at all that he had a gun. Would you prefer that he killed her with a knife instead? Guns are the great equalizer. With a gun, a woman is just as able to protect herself as a man is able to attack her. Please, do not blame this on guns. I have a bow and arrow at home, and I could kill anyone from 20-30 yards away. What exactly is taking guns away going to do? There's always going to be a way to kill someone if you want to, however, the best thing we can do is learn how to defend ourselves. Anyone who breaks into my house trying to hurt my family will find themselves pinned to the wall with three arrows through their skull.

And the first thing I will do once I get a green card is buy myself a shotgun. When the only people who have arms are the government, the people are nothing more than slaves.

Well written blog post -- I'd just like to see this line:

And yet, that wasn't enough, fleeing 3,ooo miles was not enough, none of it was enough to save her or prevent two innocents from being harmed.

rewritten to say this:

And yet, that wasn't enough, fleeing 3,ooo miles was not enough, none of it was enough to save her or prevent two other innocents from being harmed.

A small change, but it can mean volumes to the sufferers of domestic violence. I fully understand the writer of this post did not mean anything but there's the implication that the woman is not innocent.

His own father is now telling him to surrender.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/crime/ny-uschur245940143nov24,0,4956661.story

related: ontario is to treat violation of restraining orders as a crime. I would have thought this a no-brainer, but apparently this has not always been so. Would be interested in your interpretation of the same. Supposedly with this legislation it becomes easier to get tougher enforcement and stricter bail conditions. how does the law in the states regard restraining orders?

Just as an aside - i find that some of the conversation gets 'brown-centric' to the extent that the perspective is lost that the same points are discussed by the society at large*. Please take a look through the comments on the article I linked earlier (#45). here's a sample.

And yes... there needs to be more enforcement on the female side of things as well. Things like phoning to taunt the person under the order or trying to force them to break their conditions should not be acceptable either.

*and then it goes into a spiral of self-loathing which is totally unnecessary. we're all equally putrid.

>This is NOT a DBD ABD arranged/love marriage issue-its present in all cultures and societies.

Yes, but I think abuse is higher among folks who go to India to get married. Most do this because they are losers in the partner market here. This could be because of character flaws such as abuse, though could also be shyness etc.

There should be a law in India that says foreigners coming to get married in India should stay there six to 12 months after marriage. That would be enough time for any demons to come out, and also for the visa to be processed. This would save Indian women/men from getting into helpless situations in a foreign country. It would also discourage potential abusers and also people who marry and abandon their wives, the so-called holiday grooms/off-shore rapists. Only the really serious would attempt offshore marriages, but as many has pointed out above, this is not really a guarantee against abuse.

My question is once this guy has had two restraining orders, why wasn't his gun permit revoked? Or did he use an illegally purchased gun?

48 · Offshore said

>This is NOT a DBD ABD arranged/love marriage issue-its present in all cultures and societies.

Yes, but I think abuse is higher among folks who go to India to get married. Most do this because they are losers in the partner market here. This could be because of character flaws such as abuse, though could also be shyness etc.

There should be a law in India that says foreigners coming to get married in India should stay there six to 12 months after marriage. That would be enough time for any demons to come out, and also for the visa to be processed. This would save Indian women/men from getting into helpless situations in a foreign country. It would also discourage potential abusers and also people who marry and abandon their wives, the so-called holiday grooms/off-shore rapists. Only the really serious would attempt offshore marriages, but as many has pointed out above, this is not really a guarantee against abuse.

Legislating that would be a nightmare and plain stupid. You can't force people to make certain decisions. If people don't want to get married offshore, they shouldn't. Simple

>If people don't want to get married offshore, they shouldn't. Simple

Sure, but what if they want to, and beat their wives in another country? Or just leave them hanging in India after raping them in the name of marriage? There should be some way of discouraging such people.

Maybe India should start one of those passport-holding schemes, used by the Arab states to keep workers as slaves. Or if a foreigner wants to get married in India, s/he should first get a stamp in the passport saying s/he is not eligible to exit India for six months.

http://www.manavi.org/

Please pass this on:

Manavi is a New Jersey-based women's rights organization that works to end all forms of violence against South Asian women living in the U.S. "South Asian" women are those who identify themselves as being from Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, or Sri Lanka. Through a wide variety of programs, Manavi ensures that women of South Asian descent in the U.S can exercise their fundamental right to live a life of dignity that is safe and free from violence. Manavi provides services equitably to women from all South Asian countries and does not discriminate based on national, religious or sectarian grounds. Some of our services include: individual counseling, legal clinics & referrals, support groups, court & medical accompaniments, and a transitional home.

Yes, but I think abuse is higher among folks who go to India to get married. Most do this because they are losers in the partner market here.

Very nicely put, NOT. While I am guessing you are talking more about ABDs than DBDs, that's still as dumb a generalization as I have ever seen.

Yesterday’s tragic events and murders demonstrate domestic violence destroys the most sacred bonds in our families and communities. Yesterday also highlights the danger those who face domestic violence are in when they attempt to re-build their lives. Not only did the victim have restraining orders from California and NJ, but she attempted to flee and begin a life without fear on the opposite coast. For all of those who wonder why women stay, yesterday provides concrete witness to the fact that leaving may bring women to new dangers. It also shows us how brave survivors are when making a choice to change their lives. We at Sakhi for South Asian Women offer heartfelt condolences to all the victims of the shooting yesterday and encourage everyone to get involved in ending violence.

There is very little data on DV in the South Asian American community. You can turn to Margaret Abraham’s Speaking the Unspeakable for an extensive sociological analysis. A public health study by Anita Raj and Jay Silverman of 160 South Asian women in the greater Boston area did show 40% had experienced abuse – not so different from the 1 in 3 number known internationally for women who face physical and sexual violence. What is striking about abuse in our community is that it often involves the extended family – but so can challenging the abuse. We can use our community as our strength too.

What is intriguing to us at Sakhi is that our new requests for assistance have more than tripled since 2001 from 201 to 727 in 2007. We don’t see this as the incidence of abuse rising but that more people do acknowledge violence is wrong and that there are resources. What helps build this case is that more men are reaching out to Sakhi – for themselves and for women they love including aunts, mothers, nieces, sisters, etc. In 2006, 8% of our new requests were from men and last year it was near 12%. We all know that violence affects not just one individual but the whole family and community and having more men reach out to Sakhi demonstrates that abuse is a community issue.

In addition, our work at Sakhi demonstrates that abuse does cut across class and migration status. Abuse happens in arranged marriages and love marriages – and sometimes people who have chosen their partners feel burdened because they feel as if their marriage should work because they chose it. It may be hard to disclose violence when others may perceive your relationship to be happy. Everyone in an abusive relationship faces different barriers – what is critical is that immigrant women are often isolated from family and community support. But, in general, disclosing abuse is a difficult thing to do.

We also see in our work a need for services for women in a middle to high socioeconomic status. In fact, one of our ongoing needs is to find private attorneys willing to take cases from survivors who don’t fall under the legal services threshold but can’t afford a private attorney. Abuse takes many manifestations and economic abuse includes spouses who withhold education or degrees from survivors – some of whom may have been professionals in their home countries but were not allowed to get re-certified in this country. Like immigration, abuse can change one’s socioeconomic status radically.

I hope these points based on Sakhi’s day-to-day work are helpful. For more information on Sakhi’s statistics, go to http://www.sakhi.org/learn/sakhistats.php. To get involved, go to http://www.sakhi.org/change/volunteer.php. It’s always a great time to donate – especially as resources shrink (you can do this at our homepage at www.sakhi.org). At the very least, pass on our Public Service Announcement -- http://www.sakhi.org/app/videodisplaypsa.asp -- because it targets community members with key components of supporting survivors. Ultimately, violence will end when we as a community say there is no excuse for it. This dialogue and raising awareness – and educating with data and experience – is one way to start.

Warmly, Purvi Shah
Executive Director, Sakhi for South Asian Women

6 · Shawn said

@Caramelmoiselle You think this is a product of an arranged marriage? You think the chances of that happening with love marriages won't happen? Phulllleezzzzzzz

Of course it can happen outside an arranged marriage, but this is what scares ME about arranged marriages.

Psychopathy has no ethnicity or abddbdcity.
The ability to for a psychopath to act is controlled by geography . America is the worst - cars and guns.

It's funny how I see these American news reports (in the last 2 days) criticize "these immigrants" for crime and our backward values that we bring from "the wacky country".

Then, I look at Kerala/Indian news reports (in the last 2 days) that criticize "American Indians" for being corrupted with these American values they've inherited over the years.

Domestic Violence is everywhere..even if the murderer was American (DBD or ABD or CBD) or not. We need to look at the issue at stake..not divulge into a whole other (much ignorant) set of arguments.

37 · niraj said

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late, but it seems restraining orders and calling the police has done little to protect those under the threat of abusive spouses - preventive measures that provide nothing more than palliative relief. The best thing for Reshma, in my opinion, was to arm herself with a gun. The same goes for the parishoners. I believe the United States needs a nationwide concealed weapons law.

I agree that it's so difficult to protect yourself from domestic violence on your own, it's one of the worst situations you can find yourself in having seen it myself with others. What was that poor girl meant to do? Even if she had a gun, she would still be in risk.

I've learned that both of the murder victims friends and family are reading this post, and possibly this thread. Thank you for keeping it respectful.

The 5-foot-8 groom, already in the US like most eligible Malayalee Christian bachelors, wanted to marry a nurse who would easily find a job in the US. The matrimonial column in Apna Desh, a journal run by the Knanaya Church, brought them together.

wtf?!

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1081125/jsp/nation/story_10160109.jsp

i've been reading all of this as I haven't been able to concentrate on anything else since I found out what happened yesterday. Reshma is 3rd cousins to my mom, but I also knew Sanish since he mostly grew up in the Bay Area and has been living in Sacramento for a while now. I grew up in Roseville, not too far from there. Also Sanish's mom's brother is married to my 1st cousin. that's the lovely world of the knanaya family circle.

I remember discussions last summer when I was in Kerala about this marriage. Reshma's mother lives 2 houses down from my paternal grandparents. Reshma comes from a broken home - her mother left her father (who shares the same family name as I) and settled where she lives now (across the road from her sister). What I heard last summer was that many of the relatives advised her not to go through w/ the marriage. I'm not sure exactly how they met but I will tell you it wasn't a straight out arranged marriage from what I know. They met somehow and I think despite what she had heard about him from others, she thought he was a changed man. I'm sure she also thought that this was a way for her family life to get better since she would be going to America after a short while as he was a US citizen. Once she got a job, she'd be able to send money back to her mom like my parents do even now.

I met Reshma back in June in Sacramento at my cousin's graduation party. I didn't realize it was the same girl everyone talked about back in India last summer until now as I don't live up there and didn't see her after that. For some reason I didn't put 2 and 2 together. Even when another uncle called me yesterday after seeing the story on Asianet, and asked me who Reshma Kunnassery was, I didn't know. I called my aunt in NJ afterwards, and that's how I found out the info to put it all together. I really hope Sanish turns himself in. He's gotta know he can't run forever.

Whether this had happened in India or here, he's gonna get caught sooner or later. I've seen comments on the news websites that say that had this happened in India he would have been free and clear. I don't believe that's true, considering that most people found out about this across the world via Asianet. I think the same would have happened in India. The news would have spread faster there and I'm sure he wouldn't be on the loose for long. I hope we can see justice happen soon enough.

Did HE have a history of violence/bad behavior? How did they meet? Why didn't he want a girl from America? Why a Kerala girl? Did it have to with his upbringing?

58 . rhe said

Did HE have a history of violence/bad behavior? How did they meet? Why didn't he want a girl from America? Why a Kerala girl? Did it have to with his upbringing?

This may not be the ideal time to interrogate a victim's family. Let's remain respectful, please.

Ooppss..Sorry didn't mean too

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/keralaorigin-man-shoots-wife-injures-2-in-us-church-shootout/390052/2

Joseph and wife Reshma got married just a year back. Many Christian families from Kottayam are settled in the US, and often come to the state looking for brides. In particular demand are nurses, as they get jobs easily in the US. This was how Joseph came knocking on the doors of Kunnassery Kumbanakunnel James and Mary, who live in Kaduthuruthy in Kottayam. Their daughter Reshma had graduated from a nursing college in Chennai.

The match was promptly fixed and soon after the wedding, Reshma left for California with Joseph. According to her brother, Jude James, there were problems from the beginning. “On reaching California, Joseph began to torture Reshma. Last month, the couple came to Kerala along with Joseph’s father to amicably settle the differences between them. But that mission did not help,” he says. Soon after returning to Sacramento, Joseph and Reshma separated. He went to California and she moved to New Jersey to stay with the cousin who was also injured in Sunday’s shootout.

Jude says Joseph was hot-tempered, egoistic, and would drink and beat up Reshma. He would reportedly also lock her up inside their apartment.

60 · rhe said

Ooppss..Sorry didn't mean too

I know you didn't. Thank you for your understanding; I appreciate it, I'm sure the victims' loved ones do, too.

This is a "nut job". Dont know how much of socializing / community values / re-education would have helped. As Neale put it, cars and guns brind down the psychos barriers. If it had not been Reshma it would have been someone else. From what I have read, this guy was an accident waiting to happen. The question is why a madman was left loose rather than being locked up in a mental asylum. Please dont put this under Domestic Violence in the desi community as it will get swept under the carpet. I know it is not politically correct but mad people do exist and many are not fit enough to function in modern day society. Mental illness is serious and lack of treatment can kill.

Prejudice against inter-caste marriages can add to the problem too.. in India or not.

In January, Subhash Chander, 57, an Indian immigrant living in Chicago, set a fire that killed his pregnant daughter, his son-in-law and his 3-year-old grandson. He told investigators that his daughter had married a man from a lower caste without permission. Similar cases have been reported in England and Australia.

There are just so many possible factors.. it's impossible to know exactly why this horrible thing happened. My heart goes out to the victims.

I see everyone has pretty much agreed that DV is not exclusively a desi issue, but that some aspects of desi culture might contribute to it and that we need to open up more, talk about it and take action, which is precisely what these village women in India have done, in a very desi way I might add, lathis and all!

http://www.disinfo.com/content/story.php?title=Pink-Sari-Gang-Indias-Vigilante-Women-1

A video here;

www.bittenandbound.com/2008/11/24/pink-sari-gang-gulabi-gang-photos-and-video/

*sigh* If only our Indo-American cultural organizations could mobilize campaigns or clinics dealing with issues ranging from immigration to accessing health care to domestic violence. Specifically, I've asked the chair people of Malayalee cultural associations (and Churches) in my area to start up some initiatives that could address these problems. Unfortunately, these ideas get rebuffed in exchange for the usual and sometimes excessive investment in social and cultural programs/ganamelas/etc. Imagine the kind of awareness (and reduction of stigma) that could be raised if our communities channelled all that energy into helping potential victims.

On a side note, I don't believe in the death penalty, but I hope God has mercy on Pallipurath's soul. And that he be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

For readers and bloggers: Dennis John, one of the victims was a die-hard giants fan and while I was covering the story today for my paper, some of his cousins and family members requested that I reach out to the Giants and see if they'd get them a jersey signed by Antonio Pierce for his burial. I am trying to do that on my end, but perhaps you guys can individually or collectively reach out to the Giants PR and a get a petition together or something. Just wanted to get it out there and see what can be done.

63 · melbourne desi said

This is a "nut job". Dont know how much of socializing / community values / re-education would have helped. As Neale put it, cars and guns brind down the psychos barriers. If it had not been Reshma it would have been someone else. From what I have read, this guy was an accident waiting to happen. The question is why a madman was left loose rather than being locked up in a mental asylum. Please dont put this under Domestic Violence in the desi community as it will get swept under the carpet. I know it is not politically correct but mad people do exist and many are not fit enough to function in modern day society. Mental illness is serious and lack of treatment can kill.

It IS domestic violence and he IS a "nutcase." But that doesn't mean it's not domestic violence. While I want to get justfiably riled up at your attitude towards DV, it's more heart-breaking because it shows how society regards DV as something that should/will be swept under the carpet. And if you really don't think it should be swept under the carpet, well then, changing that attitude begins with yourself.

Mental illness is serious but so are degrading attitudes towards women. If more people had respect for both issues (mental illness and DV), then maybe this wouldn't have happened. But you cannot deny this was a case of DV, pure and simple.

I have a couple of issues with what has been written about the suspect in this crime by some of the commenters in this thread. What he did was unforgivable and it will be up to the criminal justice system and his God (if he believes in one) to judge him appropriately. But why do people insist on labels such as "evil" and "nutcase." In order to commit this atrocious act he neither had to be "evil" (whatever the hell that really means since I didn't understand it when Bush used it either) nor mentally impaired. Whether discussing Hitler, Stalin, the Genocide in Darfur or oppression in North Korea, why must we always use such over-the-top labels to dehumanize criminals and crimes? By doing so we make them into "other" and thereby are less willing to accept that humans are capable of much that is hurtful without being mentally impaired or controlled by a "satan." It is easier to ignore things like domestic violence if you just label it "evil" and move on. What happened in this church wasn't evil and Pallipurath may have been perfectly sane and it all happened anyway. Its harder to deal with the sadness without having such labels but it is more honest I think. My two cents.

By doing so we make them into "other" and thereby are less willing to accept that humans are capable of much that is hurtful without being mentally impaired or controlled by a "satan."

Those harsh punishments are necessary both as deterrents and to remove these dangers from civilized society. But it's not an easy thing to do.

But why do people insist on labels such as "evil" and "nutcase." In order to commit this atrocious act he neither had to be "evil" (whatever the hell that really means since I didn't understand it when Bush used it either) nor mentally impaired.

Some people may deserve the word "evil" but I'm reluctant to use it for this type of killer, who is not that uncommon unfortunately.

Evil- 1 a: morally reprehensible . b: arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct.
That would fit what this guy did.
“Whether discussing Hitler, Stalin, the Genocide in Darfur or oppression in North Korea, why must we always use such over-the-top labels to dehumanize criminals and crimes? By doing so we make them into "other" and thereby are less willing to accept that humans are capable of much that is hurtful without being mentally impaired or controlled by a "satan."
I don’t understand what you are saying here. Nobody makes anybody into “other”. Hitler, Stalin, the Genocide in Darfur or oppression in North Korea are all acts of evil…. Just like there are acts of good. Humans are capable of being or acting evil. And when they are, sometimes, they act on it and harm others. Hence, a situation such as this. By labeling someone as evil does not excuse them from justice. It just acknowledges their act as deviant from the norm.
Not everyone runs into a church, mosque, temple, synagogue and shoots their wife and 2 others after a quarrel. He had a 3000 mile drive to think about the consequence of what he is going to do. And even after all that time and distance, he could still justify the killing. To me that warrants a psych evaluation at the least!!!
“What happened in this church wasn't evil and Pallipurath may have been perfectly sane and it all happened anyway.”
It was an act of evil by a very demented person.

My question is once this guy has had two restraining orders, why wasn't his gun permit revoked? Or did he use an illegally purchased gun?

excellent question. meanwhile, the NRA enthusiasts on this board want us all to be armed at church, ('people without arms are slaves' wtf??) without considering that the easy availability of arms curtails freedom for all of us in the long run. guns at schools to protect yourself from the bullies? guns at the bar to protect yourself from brawlers? guns at camp? guns at hospitals?

so many crimes are committed by unreasonable people and power-intoxicated governments with ever more destructive weapons, that we all should be looking at disarmament across the board, rather than proliferation.
it's okay if people use their rifles during hunting season, but conceal and carry is not something i could ever endorse in good conscience. i'm hoping that one day we'll vote in a government that creates an amnesty program for returning illegal weapons.

this woman wouldn't have been killed if crazies were allowed to have guns. it was so admirable for her to have made the effort to obtain relief from the courts. she seems to have been a pro-active woman who was unfortunately wronged by our irrational gun laws.

The suspect has been captured -- I just checked on Yahoo portal. Hope it's really him.

Here's the link to the suspect captured article.

Getting into this discussion very late.

Treating this purely as a case of domestic violence (DBD/ABD or whatever category) may not be the right way to look at it.IMO, this is a case of pure psychopathic crime and the harshest punishment possible should be given.

Pravin @45 is asking an important question. This killer had 2 restraining orders against him, from his wife and father.The CA police would have him in their database.And yet, he manages to obtain a gun, travel across the country and shoot people in a Church.

The killer knew where to go, when to go, and timed his ghastly deed when the prayers are being completed.How?

I am sure the investigators will unearth more details, to answer the above question.It is a shame that an insecure and violet man who habitually abused his father and wife was not sent for medical examination and a bit of judicial custody. Its too late now.

Last week, another Indian woman died in California and Police are not yet sure whether its a suicide or murder.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians_Abroad/Andhra_woman_found_dead_in_California/articleshow/3743420.cms

Sushma's was an arranged marriage.There were some dowry related issues, but no compliants of domestic violence, till the sudden death.The husband is not available for comment.

SO irritating to be arguing this yet again. This is probably is not "a case of a pure psychopathic crime." Although he did have a restraining order filed against him by his father, no less, for a prior domestic disturbance, this must also be seen against the broader attitudes in India regarding women, and wives, and the expectation that they can be treated badly without fear of prosecution. Sadly, it is still the case that wives are viewed as a kind of property, a situation exploited by domineering types such as this man. While yes, he might bully his father and even some his friends or peers, that extra step of gunning someone down for failing to behave as he wished is probably reserved for the women in his life.

To label it as "solely psychopathic" is, once again, to ignore the social/cultural component, and to medicalize the problem, giving him reduced culpability for his actions.

IMHO the guy may have anger management issues (if you insist on using some clinical/legal framework), but mostly he had little regard for the life of the woman he married, and was outraged when she stepped away from his abusive, bullying tactics--and out from under his control.

By labeling someone as evil does not excuse them from justice. It just acknowledges their act as deviant from the norm.

I agree with her. I shall not be excused from justice.

Surya,

I am laying the blame on the cops.They knew there was a restraining order from the dad.

And then the wife gives a complaint, separates from him, and gets a restraining order.

Why did the cops not beat some sense into this guy?And then send him to a shrink?

You make the problem of DV sound very simplistic.A man could turn abusive towards his siblings, parents, spouse or children due to many reasons.No society, except for some very repressed communities in the World (I have to be secular on this forum so don't want to get into that area), condones violence- domestic or public.A psychopathic criminal is a deviant and needs to be treated that way - severest possible punishment.

Even if you look at it from a socio-cultural perspective, the Kerala christians are much more uniformly educated compared to the average in India.This particular denomination has its own church in the US, and they consider themselves 'close knit'.And yet, this incident has happened from within.Goes to show that criminals can come from any where. Eternal vigilance..thats the only thing we could all do.And expect the cops to do a decent job.

@ Kumar N : You really think cops are going to take the time and effort to put stipulations on this guy, for 2-3 restraining orders? Don't forget he is a brown guy and on top of that...you can't have faith in the justice system.

>Even if you look at it from a socio-cultural perspective, the Kerala christians are much >more uniformly educated compared to the average in India.This particular denomination has >its own church in the US, and they consider themselves 'close knit'.And yet, this incident >has happened from within.Goes to show that criminals can come from any where.

Kerala has the highest literacy rate in India and has the highest suicide rate. There is definitely a socio-economic pressure on the folks from Kerala like poor Reshma who had to come here all the way for a better life and unfortunately get trapped in an unhappy marriage. Though from the point of perpetrator,this may be a random case of DV crime I wonder what was his family, his upbringing and soci-economic conditions like here for him. Understanding the socio-economics helps prevent future occurence of such events.

Although he did have a restraining order filed against him by his father, no less, for a prior domestic disturbance, this must also be seen against the broader attitudes in India regarding women, and wives, and the expectation that they can be treated badly without fear of prosecution.

Isn't this guy born and brought up in California ?.

Thanks for this post. Here is a list of resources that can help south asian people who are trying to deal with domestic violence.

this must also be seen against the broader attitudes in India regarding women, and wives

It is also important to keep in mind that men are sometimes abused in relationships as well. Even among Desi couples. It may not always be physical, but then again most cases of men abusing women aren't either.

It won't bring back the precious lives that he took away, but I hope that this animal gets everything that's coming to him!

Some of you apparently don't read the updates, the last of which was posted at 1:15 am, right after he was caught, with a link to the MSNBC breaking news story. We tweeted it as soon as we knew, too.

No. He was NOT born in Calfornia. He was not an ABD. He was a "1.5" gen; born in Kerala, came here in his mid-late teens for high school.

And no, desis do NOT have a monopoly on DV, most of us have gone out of our way to say it cuts across ethnic, socio-economic, gender and other lines. Having said that, so what if caucasians do it, too? Please don't give people an excuse to look away and not delve in to the cultural components of this issue which are somewhat specific to our community. Whether or not some of you care to admit it, many of our less than stellar cultural attitudes contribute to and exacerbate this problem.

And to continue debating whether he was a psychopath or not is in poor taste, not to mention misguided. It smacks of what Wild Elephant was referring to, several comments ago; a way to rationalize away shittiness so we don't have to face reality.

We can all feel better and think, "well, this is the cops' fault for not doing their job...he was insane. We couldn't have done anything more". Bullshit. Please stop making excuses for this jerk. Then it's easy for us to write it off and say, "only crazy people do this stuff", when THAT IS NOT TRUE.

That has other repercussions, i.e. when a woman or man's life is threatened and they seek help, someone will tell them, "I don't believe you...your spouse isn't crazy like that guy from Sacramento or anything..." Almost ANYONE is capable of partner violence.

Finally, I beg you. The victims families ARE reading this. Please keep that in mind, as you have your debate.

83 · Dr Amonymous said

Thanks for this post. Here is a list of resources that can help south asian people who are trying to deal with domestic violence.

You are welcome. And I'm sincere when I thank you for posting your comment.

Many people didn't read the entire post and stupid me, I put SAWNET and the other resources towards the end, meaning a lot of people might not have seen what is arguably the most important information I tried to present.

::

An important note I hadn't even thought of:

Computer use can be monitored and is impossible to completely clear. If you are afraid your internet and/or computer usage might be monitored, please use a safer computer, call your local hotline, and/or call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or TTY 1-800-787-3224[NDVH]

SAWNET has a list of resources (for the U.S., U.K., Canada, India), here. SAKHI has a list of American organiztions, here.

No. He was NOT born in Calfornia. He was not an ABD. He was a "1.5" gen; born in Kerala, came here in his mid-late teens for high school.

Thanks for the info. I think that could partially explain the mental problems. Teen years are the most confusing ones. And to migrate and cope at that age is tough. Ofcourse, not everyone who migrate at that age turns out to be a psychopath. It is one of those twilight zones where you feel like you belong neither there nor here.

88 · Ponniyin Selvan saidNo. He was NOT born in Calfornia. He was not an ABD. He was a "1.5" gen; born in Kerala, came here in his mid-late teens for high school.

Thanks for the info. I think that could partially explain the mental problems. Teen years are the most confusing ones. And to migrate and cope at that age is tough. Ofcourse, not everyone who migrate at that age turns out to be a psychopath. It is one of those twilight zones where you feel like you belong neither there nor here.

Teen years are hard for most kids, migrants or not. I'm sure there were a lot of stresses on this guy that made him behave one way or another but that's only of concern to his family and his psychologist. The rest of us need only be concerned with what to do about him now that he did it and how to equip people to make sure people like him can't do it in the future.

This is a heartbreaking story, imagine the pain her parents must be going through being away from their daughter and finding out about this horrible tragedy. I can’t even begin to imagine the pain of those close to her, this is tragic.

90 · umber desi said

I can't even begin to imagine the pain of those close to her, this is tragic.

My family is close to Reshma's family in California and my friends on this coast grew up with Dennis. We are all reeling from this senseless act. Today would have been Dennis' birthday.

My prayers are with your friends and family.

It's easy to paint him with the broad stroke of "crazy," but I think the alarming issue is that in many households, regardless of right or wrong, it is viewed as "okay" to physically, verbally, or psychologically attack a spouse. It might not be viewed as the first step in problem solving, but it is tolerated. "How dare you raise your voice to me? Or question me?" The attacks are viewed as a means to hold steady to the equilibrium in the relationship. And kids see this-- not all agree, but for some, this is all they know. And why would the children question the adults? What do they know? So it repeats and the cycle continues.

The same actions perpetrated by the white, black, or Latino community would make the same Indians say it's an American problem, that it has to deal with how people are brought up in America. But it's not viewed as a social problem by many in the Indian community-- it's just the way things have been for X years, and if it was good enough then, it's good enough now.

Change has to come from within. People need to step up and say just because it's been that way for centuries, it doesn't have to be that way with me. Use social pressure to bring about internal change. And most importantly, children have to be raised in an environment that encourages love.

I would really be interested to see if this current generation of children born in the US to Indian immigrants continues the cycle of physical, verbal, or psychological violence or ends it. My hunch is the violence begins to end.

i know someone already mentioned this in the comments above but

1)his father took out a restraining order against him

but then he also says

2) that his son was a nice & handsome guy and didn't know about any trouble in the marriage

this is the fundamental problem here -> what's really going on vs. the pretty picture we like to paint for the outside world

Just received an unconfirmed report that Silvy Perincheril passed away today.

I'll update the post soon.

May all three of them rest in peace.

This is the new picture of him. He looks sort of different.

http://www.myfoxchattanooga.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7942719&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.1.1

93 · Sebs said

It's easy to paint him with the broad stroke of "crazy," but I think the alarming issue is that in many households, regardless of right or wrong, it is viewed as "okay" to physically, verbally, or psychologically attack a spouse. It might not be viewed as the first step in problem solving, but it is tolerated. "How dare you raise your voice to me? Or question me?" The attacks are viewed as a means to hold steady to the equilibrium in the relationship. And kids see this-- not all agree, but for some, this is all they know. And why would the children question the adults? What do they know? So it repeats and the cycle continues

Balance is the key. Spouses fight/argue and debate (there is nothing wrong abt it) but it is the way they do it which is important. Now kids learn all about this from parents and their surroundings. People can be short-tempered but the important thing is to learn to draw the line and keep things under control. Personalities differ and parents are also not sometimes perfect. But not everyone gets messed up. I think sometimes it is justa matter of fate how your personality shapes up as you grow.

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families and St. Thomas Church. As advocates, how can we spearhead prevention education and interventions in our communities. How can we get the silent victims to speak up? How can we educate our key stakeholders: clergy, South Asian leaders, men, women and children to break the cycle of violence? How can we facilitate, openly, these discussions?

Did this idiot actually think he could ever get away with this? The first thing I thought (after the the sadness for the victims and their families) was that within 1-2 days this guy would be caught. His mental state had to be deranged to do this crime...there is no way a sane person would condemn himself to a lifetime in prison over rage toward his wife. Well, in any case I hope he gets the maximal punishment.

there is no way a sane person would condemn himself to a lifetime in prison over rage toward his wife. Well, in any case I hope he gets the maximal punishment.

apart from the comments offering resources, commiseration, and/or personal recollections, the rest of the speculation and remarks here are just disgusting. do you know any of these people? why are you offering your uninformed opinions and guesses like greedy old vultures circling over carrion for gossip? if you can't offer anything constructive, just shut up instead of indulging in the most pathetic kind of rubbernecking.

Please let us keep this tragedy in perspective.

This was a case of a disturbed individual killing his wife and at least one other person. To attribute this to problems with the system of arranged marriages, tolerance of abuse within the desi community, sweeping it under the rug, etc is off the mark. There are millions of arranged marriages that work out just fine - I am not for one moment advocating this system of finding one's mate. Also, irrespective of the race or ethnic background of the individuals there is a tendency not to want to publicize abuse because it tends to be equated to washing one's dirty laundry in public. Again, I am not for a moment condoning the tendency to keep a lid on this sort of a problem - but it is not unique to Indians.

We read so many instances of horrible crimes being committed against spouses in the US involving other racial groups. It does not evoke the same reaction because it does not hit close to home like this crime does. The very fact that we are reacting to the extent that we are is probably an indication that this is an aberration of sorts.

At the risk of jumping to conclusions it appears that this man's family was at least semi-dysfunctional. There was a restraining order against him by his own father and I read a report that another brother had a restraining order in effect by the father. Quite honestly, I have never heard of something like this in the context of Indian families in the US where such legal protection has been sought by a parent against their children. Sure there are tensions between parents and children - but that is also something that is prevalent in other races and ethnic groups.

102 · notsoyoungdesi said

At the risk of jumping to conclusions it

then don't!

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/crime/archives/017346.html

As a Malayalee Christian and working for years as a domestic violence advocate, this incident has been almost too hard to read.

A few things:

1. Every domestic violence expert should be able to tell you-- DV is NOT caused by mental illness ("he was crazy"), loss of control ("he couldn't help it"), jealousy, the victim's actions ("she shouldn't have left him"), drugs or alcohol, family history, witnessing it as a child, or any other EXCUSE that we can come up with. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS A CHOICE THAT A BATTERER MAKES TO BE COERCIVE, CONTROLLING AND MANIPULATIVE TO HIS/HER PARTNER, IN ORDER TO GAIN OR MAINTAIN POWER AND CONTROL. This is often done by using physical, sexual, emotional, verbal, mental, psychological, spiritual, economic, educational, medical and/or other tactics.

2. 1st Gen, 1.5 Gen, 2nd Gen, and now even teens in 3rd Gen-- have all been known to perpetrate and are all vulnerable as victims. It is not about which generation you were born in-- it is a choice you have made based on things you have learned & decided in your life.

3. We have done workshops in various settings, INCLUDING Malayalee churches, about domestic violence. Yeah, most people don't talk about it, but that is the only way. Break the stereotypes, give options to victims, hold batterers' accountable, speak up about it from public places, teach our children-- these are our only avenues of hope.

I agree with 'show some decency', the commentary from the original post and these newer updates aren’t offering anything except fodder for the gossip mill. You don’t know the victims, so throwing your uninformed guesswork into this as to why she made her decisions to marry him, how we should be ashamed of ourselves as a community, etc. isn’t really doing anything to help anyone.

How much more could this poor girl have done? What could the community have done? This individual was bound and determined to hold on to the view that his wife was his property and notihng would change him. Short of throwing him in jail the first time he hit her, and keeping him there, there is very little that anyone could have done. I went against my family when my cousin started hitting his wife by reporting him to the police and at the end of the day, I was penalized by the extended family as she went back to him and did not press charges. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Just keep reporting these crimes and maybe someone, somewhere will take courage and step away from an abusive relationship or be fearful enough not to hit their partner. And may these souls rest in peace.

106 · Stick to the story said

I agree with 'show some decency', the commentary from the original post and these newer updates aren’t offering anything except fodder for the gossip mill.

i was talking about the comments, not the post.

A California man accused of fatally shooting his estranged wife and another man in a New Jersey church Sunday had been renting a room a few miles away for two weeks beforehand, authorities said Tuesday. Pallipurath stayed with an unidentified couple in Paterson, only a few miles from the church. Avigliano didn't provide details about the couple, a man and a woman, but said it did not appear that they were related to him.

The couple was questioned but were not charged in connection with the shootings.

Associated Press Writer David Porter in Newark, N.J., contributed to this report.
Hosted by Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

as a non-desi domestic violence survivor, i would like to offer my perspective - first just to express my own grief over what has happened, and then also to weigh in on why i feel this is a very important discussion even in a time of grief. I strongly agree with those trying to draw the distinction that just because domestic violence exists in all communities does not mean different communities won't have their own perspectives, resources, challenges and solutions.

I received so much support from my own community in trying to deal with this - people who understood my fears about acting or not acting, my reluctance to believe my love capable of acting in such a manner - people willing to ask questions, to help me stop and reflect, to love me regardless, to acknowledge danger without needing protection; telling me again and again to trust myself, trust my instincts, and teaching me to lead my own way to safety and healing. During the crisis point when i left, immediate family members were too close to the situation to be able to help fully without jeopardizing their own or my safety -- my ex knew how to get to them and their homes; their own emotions and fear added to my stress. A big part of why I was able to talk to these friends was that we had been working together to end violence against women of color with an intersectional analysis that takes in everybody as whole multidimensional people living in a multidimensional world - sparked by our grief and rage stemming from a tragedy in our community. I had no desire to harm my ex-partner, but i did want to assure my own safety, and to think about issues of accountability to whoever his future partners might be. It was helpful to have friends who clearly saw the distinction between state punishment of my ex and my protection. It helps to know people who can focus on de-escalating violence. I was also very fortunate that my ex has not acted as this man did. At the same time, it was not useful to me to paint my ex as evil or pathological or anything else in this context, just as somebody who made some harmful choices. Portrayals which removed his humanity and agency prompted my protective urges to defend him or help him seek help rather than to recognize his responsibility for his behavior and focus on what i needed to be okay.

Conversations about racial, sexual, gendered, ethnic and class-based violence and about transformative justice help build trust so that resources are there when we need them. Also , I will note that other friends I reached out to were also supportive. Thus my friends were able to help me protect myself without escalating the violence, which fortunately was what worked for my situation. Everybody's relationships are different, but by having these conversations not only on listservs but also in community we can help each other reduce shame and recognize both early warning signs (as my friends did for me) and dangerous moments (like trying to leave) so we can hopefully avert future tragedies within and beyond the desi community. Thanks for having this conversation, and again, my love and prayers are with the families of all involved.

106 · Stick to the story said

You don’t know the victims, so throwing your uninformed guesswork into this as to why she made her decisions to marry him, how we should be ashamed of ourselves as a community, etc. isn’t really doing anything to help anyone.

The commentary from my post is fodder for the gossip mill? Why, because I posted updates submitted by FAMILY MEMBERS of the deceased? How do you know whom I do and do not know? The correct answer is, you don't. You have no idea whom I've spoken to over the last 48 hours.

With all due respect, your assumptions and comment aren't productive at all. I've worked very hard to make sure that this was a safe space for discussion. We've moderated aggressively to remove prying questions and other inappropriate content.

And frankly, I stand by what I wrote. We SHOULD be ashamed of ourselves, if we let such things continue to occur. If we are not open to understanding this issue and we just dismiss it away as "mental illness" or a one-off "anomaly", we have learned NOTHING. I cannot believe the level of denial which has displayed itself during this thread via several comments from different people.

DV is an issue which affects EVERYONE, but it affects some communities in unique ways. This was not an aberration. I can count on both of my hands the number of women in my family and family whose partners isolated them/threatened to kill them/destroyed them emotionally/beat them severely. Stop trying to distance yourselves from it; if your family is perfect, well then God has blessed you abundantly. The rest of us aren't so lucky-- and neither are future desi victims of DV, if we keep up this wild goose chase of rationalizations and excuse-making.

::

"show some decency", thank you so much for recognizing what I tried to do. I sincerely appreciate it.

Whatever the reason for this horrific attack, I agree with Anna's main point: just sighing and calling this guy crazy or waving the problem away is both pointless and disrespectful. Three people are dead because this man thought of his wife as his property and felt free to commit violence against her or anyone who tried to help her. If you don't think that is domestic violence there is simply no point in arguing with you.