I was surprised at how many of the signs were so blatant. “That’s racist!”

yeah, i've talked to others who have had the same experience with the signs that the deaf make.

A very nice, thought-provoking post. You make some great points, and they all ring true. Thank you, Taz.

Interesting post and topic. This was unintentionally (I think?!) funny:

Tamil (hand across forehead)

Really great post. From what I've witnessed in my own family, Indians have a very low tolerance for disabilities-- mental or physical. The treatment of these individuals ranges from dismissive to hostile, but there is always this fear of contagion, most probably due to the arranged marriage system (keep your bloodlines pure). Do you think the love marriage system lends itself to more acceptance of disabilities, and could that explain why some cultures are more accepting of people than others?

By the way, I've seen all kinds of things labeled as 'disability' -- poor eyesight for one.

Wow, I've never thought about the deaf desi expat experience. I know only one deaf desi but he's an older uncle back in the desh, and it always amazed me that NO ONE in our entire family has learned any kind of sign language in order to communicate better with him. They don't even write notes, they just grunt and pantomime and guess until it seems there's some kind of mutual understanding. I agree with musing about that there seems to be a better acceptance/accommodation/advocation cause for many types of disabilities outside of Pakistan (/India) and I think it's largely because there's a longer history of work towards those goals.

What a revelation about the different sign languages, though. It never occurred to me...

It was nice seeing a post on deaf people on this site. I admit I have never seen this site before, so I might be wrong about this being a first post on deafness or Deaf Desis. I have been in this country since 1967 when Indian people here were as rare as Americans are in India. I met, maybe, ten Indians during my first five years here. Every time, I saw an Indian, I used to run to them introduce myself and see the excitement on their faces seeing another Indian. However it would change to a strange expression once they knew I was deaf. They would pat my back and make a hurried retreat.
Talk about prejudice among Desis for disabled people!
No wonder, I ended up with all my friends being Americans--both deaf and hearing. However, things are changing. One of the keynote speaker at the ASHA convention in Dallas this month is a deaf person.
You can get more information about the book, Deaf in Delhi, at http://gupress.gallaudet.edu/bookpage/DIDbookpage.html and read a chapter.
Those of you who are interested in knowing more about deafness and deaf people as well as what they can do to help the deaf, please post your thoughts there.

I was just about to chime in about Deaf in Delhi, and then I planned to either IM or e-mail my father to tell him about this entry, but . . . well, sure enough, I scroll down and find that my father has magically already found this page!

It is unfortunately true that older Indians -- particularly if they were born and raised in India, are far less likely to make much of an effort to get to know deaf Indians (if they don't write them off completely). I do think this has a lot to do with my parents' circle of friends being largely deaf and non-Indian.

In any event, I'm sure "Pop" will address any other questions that might arise, so I'll defer now. :-)

My cousin-brother has been deaf since he was born. His mother, my aunty, contracted a virus during pregnancy. I am the youngest in my family, but because he was seven years younger than me, I always treated him as my own kid brother. Growing up he had to leave his family and attend deaf school because the specialist education centres were far away from home. So it was basically only at weekends and holidays that we saw him for a few years.

Everyone missed him like crazy, but he became independent really quickly, and got confidence he simply would not have achieved had he been cosseted at home. He has a wide circle of friends, and his best friends over the years have been other deaf guys from an Indian background like himself, although he has lots of white mates too. So it's interesting how even in that situation, just like us, people from certain backgrounds tend to gravitate to people who have similar experiences and families.

Over the years I did the male bonding thing when you talk to your kid brother about girls....turns out my cousin was very popular with the white girls at his school! About three years ago he finished further education at a local specialist college and started working in an office.

Growing up we learnt to sign. A point to the bindi in your forehead is 'Indian'. Doing the 'namaste' sign with the palms of your hands together is the expression for 'temple', basically when we go to the Gurdwara. I always feel so moved when I sign with him because we have conversations with our whole body and face....there is such expressiveness in our communication. There is no whispering....you are open and face-on and so attentive. You pay such attention to gesture, expression and facial expression .... it is quite literally, 'body language'.

We have never really encountered prejudice from people in the Indian community, although we know some people are not so lucky. Just some people kind of treating him as if he is stupid, or not talking to him, but talking to the person standing next to him, as if he is in some way invisible. In my family everyone embraced him, in fact if anything he hated the way people went out of their way to treat him with more love and attention because he just wanted to blend in with everyone.

A couple of years ago someone mentioned to his Mum that there was a Sikh girl originally from Kenya who she knew, who was also deaf, just slightly older than my cuz. At first he was reluctant to meet her, because he was shy of the whole thing where you are introduced to girls, the 'introduction' thing. So I told him to at least look at her picture, and she was beautiful, and worked in a fashion store. They met and hit it off and were married by the end of the year. He always said he wanted to marry a deaf girl, because he felt only someone who understood his life like that could relate to him, but he never cared if she was white or Indian, and to be honest nobody in the family was really bothered if he married a white girl, everyone just wanted him to be happy. He just didn't feel really comfortable with hearing girls, but with a deaf girl he could be himself.

But now that he is married to a deaf Indian woman, he understands that there were other aspects of his identity and experience that make sense only to others like you, and she could understand things that he knew but other white deaf men and women didn't understand, about racism they may have faced, and just the general life of being Indian in the UK, the family culture, all that kind of thing.

Just before his wedding, after the official stag party, me and him went out for a few drinks and got so drunk I forgot how to say things in signing, so we had a couple of drunken conversations in writing about how much we loved each other. The next day we laughed at the obscenities and stupid things we wrote down and he told me to throw it away because it was embarassing. But I kept that piece of paper and will keep it forever. Everything works out the way it does. I don't think he would have been a different person if he was hearing. He would have ultimately been the same guy, happy, friendly and positive.

Terrific post, Taz.

I'm not making any judgments here but I just thought its interesting that often in desi conversations about dating and marriage, white is the only alternative to brown.

Great story Billy.

Getting so drunk that you lose the ability to communicate in sign is pretty funny.

I'm not making any judgments here but I just thought its interesting that often in desi conversations about dating and marriage, white is the only alternative to brown.

That's because desis from India associate primarily with other desis and white people. Desis from the Carribbean (Indo-Carbs) however are more likely to associate with black people to a greater degree than desis from India.

Indians have a very low tolerance for disabilities-- mental or physical.

well, this i a phenomenon common across many cultures & societies. the sign of the gods' disfavor, etc. etc. in muslim countries the predestinarian streak in islamic thought is used to justify them as the will of god, and of course karma can easily be used to "explain" why someone is the way they are. with affluence and smaller families presumably the attitudes will change as people learn to appreciate what different people can contribute even if they aren't in the typical mold.

Taz, I thought this post was fabulous and thought provoking. I don't know any deaf desis, but I do have a couple of relatives in the motherland that had various mental disabilities. It is definitely true that a huge concern in our community about whether disabilities are genetic and families still hide the disabled to protect the marriage prospects of their able-bodied children. Hopefully, both education about disabilities and better services for the disabled will dispel these prejudices soon.

Great post, it touched on a lot of things that have never even occurred to me. I hate to admit it but I probably haven't thought of the deaf desi experience since I saw the movie Khamoshi when I was younger and even then nothing productive occurred to me.

I agree that there is definitely a dismissal of people with disabilities in many families I have met but I always love it when my Dad describes someone with a serious disability as rab da roop (the face of God). It always reminds me that such apparent differences aren't always a life sentence against a fulfilling life, they can be an opportunity to see the warmth and acceptance in the world in an entirely unique way that most of us will never understand.

loved this post, thanks taz

You may be interested to read a story I wrote for Rediff about 6 years ago about deaf Bharata Natyam dancers: http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/nov/17spec.htm

They were really amazing to watch! I wish I had video at that time because it would've made a great video.

I rocked that HTML: http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/nov/17spec.htm

Great post!

Now a few questions arose from the comments:

when confronted with someone different (differently abled, disabled, or plain different) why do people tend to either dismiss or elevate them to a pedestal (re:"face of god")??

what do those with mental disabilities have in common with deaf people?? very little. This kind of reductionism is what most deaf people try to avoid. Totally different needs and abilities here.

my Dad describes someone with a serious disability as rab da roop (the face of God).

This kind of reductionism is what most deaf people try to avoid. Totally different needs and abilities here.

true. but i dont htink that was implied in the posts above. it is not a corollary old peanut.

When someone says, what is the difference between mentally challenged and deaf people, it shows the general ignorance about disabilities. Unfortunately, it is very common. I have been asked if deaf people use braille to communicate. A leading educator in India who wanted to help the disabled, asked me if he should start a college for the disabled? He meant a college in which all disabled persons will study side by side--deaf, blind, mentally challenged, physically disabled and whoever.
I hope discussions like this one will help raise awareness about disabled people and disabilities. Thanks, Taz for starting it.

What's up ex-colleague! Great article on deaf classical dancers.

Thank you for this post. Having worked with deaf people, I can tell you that they do not consider themselves "disabled." In fact, they detest that label. It is a culture not a disability.

Growing up, there was a deaf boy in my community who I never talked to even though we were the same age. I always wondered how he communicated with his family, and whether he learned ASL. I can't imagine how isolated and lonely he must have felt in our community considering nobody signed. I'm glad you highlighted the Metro South Asian Deaf Association as a resource....definitely going to look into that.

Taz, your post made me think about this issue, so thank you. I will make an effort to learn sign-language.

Also, do you know that toddlers in some daycare centers in US are being taught sign language before they can even speak ? This is because most toddlers can communicate in sign language much faster than they can speak. Hope this new impetus will be helpful for our deaf brothers and sisters in future.

i absolutely loved this post and how insightful it was. a topic that never gets discussed should deserve more attention.

good post. this is sepia mutiny at its best.

Great post, Taz. I like how heartfelt you are because you humanized your encounter. I like your style of writing -- it is very personal, yet objective -- and you engage with the people you are interviewing or talking about.

It is unfortunate that "defects" of any kind are seen as curses in our communities, but that is not something restricted to South Asians. Physical defects are viewed with suspicion in most communities around the world -- from Asia to the Latin Americas, and have been seen as a hand of the devil (or other similar manifestations relevant to belief system) or evil (and I am not just talking about views in major religions). It was a stigma in America, too, until recently in its history.

I'd love to see you do a post on mental illness (depression, anxiety, etc.) in our communities because the stigma there is shocking. Instead of helping, there is a tendency to hide the person away for life. When I was a young girl, I had a neighbor who had a daughter with some form of down syndrome, and she always had an ayah with her, but I remember being terrified of the girl. She ran into our house once and sat down at our dinning table (she had "escaped" her ayah) and I remember being so scared of her, and although my mother served her tea with biscuits and talked to her that didn't lessen my fear of her and I was relieved when the ayah came in and took her away. Years later, I wish I had taken the time to hug her and to try to talk to her. It's a memory I recall with some shame, but I also remember how lovingly her mother (my neighbor) treated her daughter.

Interestingly, with amniocentesis (sp?) and selective abortions, fetuses with congenital "defects" have in recent decades been aborted. Pregnant women are given the option to abort kids with down syndrome -- I am shocked that there isn't more outrage over that. But this is off topic.

And I am not equating deafness with down syndrome, so let's nip that in the bud. I am talking about how societies in general treat people who are different.

Hi Taz,

I really enjoyed your write up. Keep up the good work.

Cheers

Great post - thanks for being an advocate :-)

awesome and insightful. thanks for this

Just a side note that may be of interest, since Taz mentioned language access - intuitively, language access does seem to include issues of communication with the hearing-impaired. But from a strictly legal standpoint, the laws on language access stem from prohibitions on national origin discrimination, so deafness doesn't really fit. Rather, issues of hearing and deafness fit within the legal framework of the Americans with Disabilities Act and disability law generally. . . . Taz's points are so insightful and bring up the lack of representation that south Asians with disabilities receive at gatherings that tackle the issues related to being south Asian in America. Maybe at the next South Asian Summit or other similar conference, a segment featuring issues specific to south Asians w/ disabilities (even during a plenary) would serve to educate even the most activist among us. Learning about the issues facing this subset of our community might serve to broaden our outlook on what civil rights for our community really means at a nuts and bolts level. . . . sometimes it means that the civil rights activists among us have to embrace and assimilate the "non PC" ways in which some of us have to express ourselves.

Great post. From a deaf friend's experience, the deaf community in Chennai and Bangalore are quite well-served by schools and other facilities. My friend works as a manager in the Titan factory in Hosur, they employ a sizable number of deaf people--they also live near the factory in a large community.

I also second the call for a separate post on how intellectual disabilities are seen by desis everywhere. In my experience, the only way they'll be accepted is if they were gifted at something else. There is a lot of ignorance and rudeness.

My older sister, now 40, has epilepsy and a mild intellectual disability. Life in 80s India was very hard for us all. My sister grew up to become a bit more independent, had an arranged marriage and had a child. Unfortunately, our world came crashing down, when their child was diagnosed with cerebral palsy, followed closely by the death of her husband. It's a mess. You'd think there'd be some appreciation of my sister's difficult situation and how well she's done inspite of it--instead, people have erroneously and ignorantly suggested to us that her child is disabled because of her illness and that we should have never tried to give her a normal life.

In my experience, Indians everywhere have still not changed enough for my nephew to be accepted easily. However, facilities in India are quite good now and that makes a big, big difference. There are special schools in major cities--my nephew goes to an excellent one in Bangalore.

Great discussion!
I used to work with the deaf community (directly/indirectly) and my name sign was an A with the thumb on the forehead. Yes, only Indian around so it was unique enough.

Madan - Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm absolutely interested in your experience with American sign language after being in India. One of the key distinctions with sign language is that it's not all the same, you have dialects and accents like any other language.

In my experience, Indians everywhere have still not changed enough

In my experience, Indians everywhere have still not changed enough

stop it with the self-loathing and the simpering tone will you. it's vain, venal and really grates on my nerves. thank you.

Puh-leeze.

Liya is expressing her own personal opinion based on her entire life's experiences.

Your's may be different. That does not mean her's are invalid.

I have/had several relatives who are deaf although none that I know of in my own generation, but in my parents' and grandparents' generation. I am wondering if there is any literature, even fiction, that describes deaf culture and sheds light for those of us who do not have any direct contact with the deaf. Thank you.

"stop it with the self-loathing and the simpering tone will you. it's vain, venal and really grates on my nerves. thank you."

I can barely contain my anger at this statement. Liya was sharing with us an incredibly person (and incredibly common) story of hers and you come back with....this. Usually I just let trolls like you go, but this was so out of line I think it warrants a comment.

I don't know if you're just an angry, bitter person, but you definitely need to spend some time reflecting on how and when you lost your ability to empathize.

I'm assuming deaf desis in America learn both South Asian sign language and ASL. Wondering how easy it is switch between both ?

I recall reading somewhere that in Canada, they were building a township more suitable for deaf people (all doorbells have lights, low tables that permit sign language) etc. Anyone has pointers to this?

Also how long does it take to learn ASL?

I don't know if you're just an angry, bitter person, but you definitely need to spend some time reflecting on how and when you lost your ability to empathize.

Lord of the Dings,

Nope. Most learn only ASL and English if they grew up here. It would be very difficult to switch between ASL and South Asian Sign Language (& other languages) unless you heavily use South Asian SL in your home (while communicating in English and ASL outside).

As for time to learn ASL - short answer is it depends....It is a full fledged language that is very different from English in its grammar, syntax and structure.

This is in response to Ashi's question/comment;
Madan - Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm absolutely interested in your experience with American sign language after being in India. One of the key distinctions with sign language is that it's not all the same, you have dialects and accents like any other language.
ASL is very different than ISL (Indian Sign Language). For example, when I arrived at Gallaudet University in 1967, I was totally lost as I knew ISL, but not ASL. It took me several months to express myself and almost a year before I could comprehend a classroom lecture in ASL. As for dialects, like any language, ASL and ISL and other sign languages have their share of it. Not much research has been done on ISL, however. It is generally believed that sign language is universal, it is not. Thanks for asking this question and giving me the opportunity to clarify this misconception prevalent everywhere.
Madan

Hi, I am a man of Indian origin born in a predominately Indian community in Africa and I attended an Indian school for the deaf only. Yet, I only knew how to sign ASL. This experience illustrates the diversity within Deaf South Asians community. I don’t ever know how to sign Indian sign language. I only knew how to sign American sign language because I spent most of my teen years in the States – and I matriculated at a high school here in Washington, DC. Also, I knew how to sign British Sign Language because I lived in London, England for a year and half. In United Kingdom, there are several Britons of south Asian origins and a vast majority of them don’t ever know how to sign Indian sign language.

Sunzari, yes, I agree totally with you that deafness may be perceived as a medical condition to the mainstream society however this is our culture and our way of living really. But from the political point, I will not mind the term, disability as this grant our rights such as in the case of ADA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_With_Disabilities_Act

the diversity within Deaf South Asians community.

I agree, for family reasons that I prefer not to discuss. Those who would take such an un-nuanced view as that there exists a "Desi deaf community," while possibly well-intentioned, could definitely benefit from some sensitivity training, in order to teach them to recognize each further degree of nuance, such that they reach the ultimate correct conclusion that every snowflake is unique. Perhaps a SAALT (plenary?) session could address this in the not-too-distant future.

Khoofi , about Liya, I must tell that I do agree with her based on my experiences. This is not the question of my self-loathing about my Indian. Being a deaf man, I must say that I have such experiences and as a result, if I see the gathering of the Indians then I would walk on the other side to avoid them and I suppose this is the cumulative result of my survival mechanism in negotiating in my social life. I often have better experiences with non-south Asians particularly whites and blacks rather than South Asians. I am glad that Taz addresses this in her posting. Hopefully this is the catalyst for better things to happen – perhaps – by educating the South Asians about deafness and addressing such issues that may contribute to the betterment of the south Asians community.
Razib, Indians have a very low tolerance for disabilities – mental or physical – I always ponder whether this is the institutional outgrowth of beliefs in caste.

Musings, I don’t understand how love marriage would result in higher tolerance for disabilities. It all depends on the right attitude and right mindsets with the reservoir to give love and whether the disabled children are the offspring of an arranged marriage or love marriage are completely irrelevant. I have had seen with my own eyes that disabled children are loved in the institution of arranged marriages.
Sunzari, I agree with you – I am blessed that my mother is able to sign well. My father is able to fingerspell (there is a vast difference in signing and fingerspelling) and otherwise, my father and I tend to communicate in writing. Several of my cousins are able to sign. Many deaf Indians came forward and always told me that I am quite lucky that I am able to communicate with my family and relatives. So I sense that they are quite lonely. If anyone has a deaf relative, then it should be motivated by love to at least learn how to communicate. Besides, learning how to sign is helluva a lot of fun!

Lurker Auntie, I am an avid reader. Based on what I recall, there is no mention of deafness in Indian ancient literature. I may be wrong. But I don’t think this is mentioned.
Lord of the dings, about the township that is built for the deaf people. Mark my words, isolating them into a township that is built for deaf people will not solve anything. It is best to assimilate them into the mainstream society.

Razib, I find that very interesting to consider some signs as racist. I never thought in this way but I can see why the others would interpret this as racist signs. Deaf people are by nature not necessarily blunt but they are visually motivated to express. Sign language is a highly visual language.

Sharvedh, when you type words do you "hear" what you are typing in your mind?

How are you able to formulate the "sound" of words in your mind?

I have always wondered if deaf people hear language in their minds and if so, how?

This is a great post and very informative. Reminds me of one of my favourite films Sparsh.

Razib - that is true, I remember when I was younger reading a book on caste by Jonathan Parry and him mentioning in the foreward how painful it was to see how badly handicapped people were treated in Indian villages. I recall getting all outraged and slipping into anti-the "White Man" mode at his presumptions about Indian society; till one of my friends married a girl witha physical disability and I went to work in rural India myself. Both these experiences exposed me to thte kind of attitudes you mentioned which were quite shocking. My friend said that after his marriage, he beleives that this is one of the last remaining vesgites of accetpable discrimination in India. But I think things are changing, and within a few genrations things will be very different.

Many deaf Indians came forward and always told me that I am quite lucky that I am able to communicate with my family and relatives. So I sense that they are quite lonely.

This breaks my heart.

Taz, and commenters like Madan, Sharvedh, and others.

Thank you very much for posting on this topic and the terrific discussion it has generated.

Sharvedh

I did not mean ancient literature. I am thinking more in lines of recent writing - fiction/non-fiction etc. Like the movie Sparsh about blind people. You see I was very close to my grandmother who was deaf and I loved communicating with her although I did it mostly by writing on my palm (I do not think she knew ISL or any standard sign language) and also by her reading my lips. :) I have very fond memories of how quickly she knew what was on my mind (usually candy or play Monopoly with her or some such silly thing!)

So I am wondering if there is any writing or stories about the deaf that have been written that I could read and feel closer to the community she belonged to. She passed away when I was a teenager.

Thank you for your comments.

The recent movie Iqbal was about a deaf boy in India who is a phenomenally talented cricket bowler.

You can see a clip here

Synopsis:

Set largely in a small Indian village where cricket is a way of life, the story follows deaf and dumb Iqbal (Talpade), an 18-year-old who refuses to let his disability hold him back. Expected by his father to help out with the family's maize-farming business, Iqbal prefers to spend his days practising cricket moves and dreaming of playing for the national team. This ambition seems to be getting closer when his sister Khadija (Prasad) helps him enrol at a prestigious cricket academy. But a combination of school politics and Iqbal's temper at a rival student eventually cause him to be thrown out.

With his dream apparently over, Iqbal is distraught until he discovers that local village drunk Mohit (Shah) was once a high-level cricketer. Persuading the permanently sozzled Mohit to tutor him in the game is a difficult task, and keeping him away from alcohol is even harder, but soon Iqbal is making progress and forming a strong bond with his curmudgeonly teacher. But when he finally manages to join a small, underachieving state team, Iqbal faces problems both from his cricket-hating father (Karyekar), and from the politics in the cricketing world where some would rather he didn't get to achieve his dreams.

Hi Mithun, I am deaf and being deaf means that I cannot hear. Let’s alone formulating sounds in my mind. Really, you asked me a very difficult question. I do understand sound however strictly as an intellectual concept and not something that I am able to feel. The concept of sound is just not tangible to me given the nature of my disability – Deafness. Therefore I will continue to perceive English as my second language. For example, I always struggle to understand why it is necessary to write “an” before orange instead of “a,” before my elementary teacher finally explained that it is necessary in order to pronounce it right because there is no sound in the first letter, “o” in this word, orange. Such are the methods to teach English as a second language to deaf students. You asked a very interesting question.

Hi Lurker Auntie, umm, yeah, there are literatures with deaf characters however they are usually small characters and I definitely don’t remember any deaf characters that are the hero/main character in the story. They are just not significant enough to make an impact I suppose. The movie – the Piano is an example. Oh yes, Billy is right – I totally forgot about Iqbal. Prior to that, we also must probe into the role of literature towards deaf community and the larger question should be addressed whether this is an expression of the mainstream society towards deaf community. Now, it is noted that not much mention is made about the deaf community and it corresponds with the ignorance about us, deaf people therefore not much is written about us. I cannot think of any South Asian Deaf literature but I think Madan may publish something like that. I think my mother bought a book by Madan the other day last year. There are several non-fictional literatures about deaf people. You can check them out at www.gallaudet.edu - Billy, I must tell that it is no longer politically correct to describe us as deaf and dumb. Sure, I do understand that in old-style English – the term, dumb means that we cannot speak and it can be true. But we are very sensitive to this term, dumb because it has negative connotations and often mislead people into thinking that we are also dumb (referring to the lack of intellectual faculty which is totally untrue.) The politically correct way to describe us is just to say that we are deaf. (smile)

The movie – the Piano is an example

In 1972, Gulzar made a movie Koshish, with Sanjeev Kumar and Jaya Bhaduri which one of its kind in Indian cinema.

In Roorkee (North India near Dehra Dun), since one of the Professor at IIT Roorkee (now a Director of another Institute) had a son who is deaf, he and his wife dedicated their life to building and mentoring school for deaf in Roorkee, which is seen as an unique school in India. I think school takes young children and then prepares them to incorporated in regular educational system.

Their son now works in a bank as an executive, and is married (the wife is not deaf) with children.

Hi Lurker Auntie, umm, yeah, there are literatures with deaf characters however they are usually small characters and I definitely don’t remember any deaf characters that are the hero/main character in the story

In Koshish, both Sanjeev Kumar and Jaya Bhaduri play deaf.

and someone else too (No spoiler)

Do check it out, if there is a DVD available for a 1972 movie.

I'm an ASL student in California using the Signing Naturally books. When the teacher first introduced country signs to us and showed us the signs for India and Viet Nam, I was shocked. The books are old and some of the signs are outdated. Definitely I felt that most of the signs are racist. But what I have learned and found is that deaf people are moving towards adopting the country sign using that country's native sign language. So now I educate myself of different country signs by searching on youtube.

More on Koshish

I have/had several relatives who are deaf although none that I know of in my own generation, but in my parents' and grandparents' generation. I am wondering if there is any literature, even fiction, that describes deaf culture and sheds light for those of us who do not have any direct contact with the deaf. Thank you.

I can't think of any, for some reason I know far more on literature with sight-affected people than those with hearing deficiencies. the only thing I can think of is "Children of a Lesser God" which was about the love affair between a speech teacher at a school for deaf kids and a young deaf woman - a variant on the similar theme of Sparsh with gender roles reversed. I think the actress who played the deaf girl won an Oscar for her role and she was actually deaf the other lead being William Hurt. but this is more a film about the relationships that hearing people can have with Deaf people rather than one about Deaf people per se. film was a bit cheesy but was based on a play that was meant to be good.

Also, Satyajit Ray made a movie "Chiriakhana" (1967) which has a deaf as one of the main characters.

Look around you will find hazaar examples.

I put Koshish way above Children of Lesser God et al.

For Sharvedh and Madan Vashishta, so when you read letters and words on a page, in your mind's eye you are picturing the sign equivalent of the same?

Like for me (a non-deaf person), letters symbolize sounds. And I "hear" those sounds as I read or write something. Just wondering how it works for you.

Mithun, it is interesting – if I read “car” then I would visualize a car. If it reads “red dress” and then I would visualize red dress and if it reads “worn by a woman of African American origin” and then I would visualize a dark skinned woman that look typically American as opposed to women from Africa. I never think in the context of hearing sounds. It just doesn’t work in my mind realm really. I was born never knowing any sounds. When I read letters, I don’t think in terms of my sign language. In fact, my reading and writing are totally independent of my sign language. Yet when I sign, it is often entwined with the language of English – e.g. there are several borrowed entities from the language of English and I have to sign by words to words if I need to quote something before I switch to my American Sign language mode. Further, when I read, I tend to focus on the meaning of the words and collectively try to read the message the letter conveys to me. Perhaps, my approach to reading is highly technical independent of hearing sounds. Mithun, isn’t brain so amazing? We often underestimate the power of our brains.

#41, Tamizh, Thank you

#48, Sharvedh: I am not advocating that. I wasn't clear in my post - basically a new township is being built with the needs of deaf people taken care of. It is not for only deaf people.

Can anyone recommend a good link for learning ASL? Was always interested but never had the time until now..

BTW, interesting journal entries of a non deaf person who works with people with hearing disabilities:

http://maeveenroute.livejournal.com/39811.html

http://maeveenroute.livejournal.com/36992.html

http://maeveenroute.livejournal.com/36756.html

Khoofi , about Liya, I must tell that I do agree with her based on my experiences. This is not the question of my self-loathing about my Indian. Being a deaf man, I must say that I have such experiences and as a result, if I see the gathering of the Indians then I would walk on the other side to avoid them and I suppose this is the cumulative result of my survival mechanism in negotiating in my social life.

Sharvedh, thank you for the explanation. I read your hurt in the sense that you moved away from the gathering of Indians because you had a natural affinity to them but you kept away for fear that the hurt would have been so much greater had they insulted you than if you were rejected by some non-indian dude.

we have all done the same in some context - Kept away from someone we actually want to be with, because it feels better to nurture hope than to be shattered by a rejection. But one shouldnt stop reaching out and one can not paint everyone with the same brush. doubtless your experience with Taz was more positive (tho she is Bangla :-O), and ditto with the other folks you met up with in DC. ergo the thesis was false, no?

being indian (or desi, as taz would prefer) is an essential part of us (at least for me). to dry erase this part away is to leave a gaping hole. so i got a little cheesed off earlier. i hope you folks see my point.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Just reading the comments is so fascinating and educational! Hurray both Iqbal and Koshish have been added to my Netflix queue. I have already seen Children of a Lesser God. The Oscar winning actress in the movie is deaf in real life too. I am sorry to say the blurb for Koshish on Netflix says "A young deaf-and-dumb man (Sanjeev Kumar) meets a similarly handicapped girl (Jaya Bhaduri) at the market". After reading Sharvedh's @ # 57 comment, I am thinking of writing to them to correct it. Thank you all.

Khamoshi: The Musical

Billy, I must tell that it is no longer politically correct to describe us as deaf and dumb. Sure, I do understand that in old-style English

Sorry Sharvedh, I just cut and pasted the synopsis of the movie from the youtube clip.

Thank you for writing a post about us Deaf Desi people. In my experience, I have been shunned by Desi Muslims and Desi Hindus. Everyone seem to think that we Deaf people are "slow" or that we are "cursed," so therefore they think they have to shun us. Whenever I visited my relatives in Bihar, my mother would tell me to wear my hair down so that no one would see my hearing aid. Desi people always thought it was "sad" that I cannot speak or understand Hindi or Urdu. Well, how can I when nobody would teach me directly?

For the past few months, I have been teaching myself to read and write Hindi. I have NEVER dated a Deaf Desi guy because I haven't met any. In fact, Deaf guys (white, black, or brown) were never interested in me. And neither were Desi guys (whether Muslim, Hindu, Indian or Pakistani)! The only guys I have dated were hearing white guys who were sympathetic and wanted to learn ASL, read about India and Islam to understand me better.

And lastly, as a Deaf Desi Muslim, I am most certainly NOT offended by the blatant signs in ASL for India, Islam, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever. That's how we Deaf people are...blunt. We call it how we SEE it. I think people get so offended too easily.

-Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist

And lastly, as a Deaf Desi Muslim, I am most certainly NOT offended by the blatant signs in ASL for India, Islam, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever. That's how we Deaf people are...blunt. We call it how we SEE it. I think people get so offended too easily.

-Deaf Indian Muslim Anarchist

I'm with you!

Probably the only people that will cry "racist" over signs are hearing people. Get over it.

It's refreshing to know that deaf people are not plastic, fake pc-ers.

Kloof, naturally, this is a lot complicated than that. I must emphasize that my reaction is not typical of that of a simpleton. I know my reasoning is a lot complicated. Actually, I never perceived this as the result of being hurt by the reactions towards my deafness. I suppose that being hurt is a teensy factor. Most times, I just have a very low threshold of patience towards anyone who is totally ignorant. In fact, my brain is sophisticated enough to recognize the differences between Indians from India and foreign-born Indians. I tend to gravitate more towards foreign-born Indians especially in the States, United Kingdom, and South Africa because they tend to be more aware about us, deaf people and how to best accommodate us. For an example, I went to order an ice-cream in Crystal city, Virginia and there was an American-born Indian scooping ice cream for me. When I signaled to my ears indicating my deafness and he just pulled the paper and pen out so I could communicate my orders. I have the same positive experiences with Britons of South Asian origins and South African Indians – many of my former colleagues in South Africa especially Johannesburg and Durban tend to be Indians and we often partied after work especially at bars. With Indians from India, they tend to be ignorant or that their reactions are conditioned as a result of their cumulative beliefs about our disabilities and often they often made references to karma which raised my ire. Also, some Indians just wanted to show me their love and acceptance to gain grounds and this made me very conspicuous to the point of announcing to everyone that I am a god child. In all honesty, however well-intentioned this may be, I find that bloody irritating. Simply, I want to be treated the same as the next average Joe! I am able to tell the difference between Indians from India by the way they wear clothes, their hairdos (Indians from India tend to prize their hairs), and whether they tilt their heads when they talk. If I see that, then I tend to avoid them. I know that’s not right. But most times, I just don’t want to invite complications. And oh yes, by the way, I do have good Indian friends including the ones from India as well. but still, I don’t excuse India – India still have a long way to go addressing the challenges it presents for the deaf community including building the bridge between the deaf community and the mainstream society in India. And yep, I am quite impressed with Taz, Neal, Aruna, and Kam.

With Indians from India, they tend to be ignorant or that their reactions are conditioned as a result of their cumulative beliefs about our disabilities and often they often made references to karma which raised my ire.

Yeah but they say that about everything. Its not really a negative judgement. Its more like another form of empathy. But without that cultural experience I can understand how it might be off putting.

Lurker Auntie, yeah, that’s a good idea to write them to correct. I am quite pleased! We would always appreciate your support. MN, umm, I don’t consider some signs in American sign Language to be racist. I need to see from the hearing person point to appreciate that. Perhaps, hearing people would find that to be too blunt. However this is our sign language – that’s how we communicate. But at the same time, this must be balanced with accommodating cultural sensitivity including collapsing racism. Deaf Washingtonians are quite advanced in this sense. Further, given the nature of our lives experiences, we take equal opportunity very seriously. Lord of the Dings, I am not sure about recommending any links to learn American Sign Language. I will make time to check that out. However, I know that the best way to learn ASL is to interact with us deaf people. I learnt how to write French years ago and I was damn good at that. Yet, I could not manage in Paris despite being have had been to Paris and France at least 15 times – textbook French is just not enough – I also need to match their culture and their way of living before I could express well in French. That’s the same with Deaf people.

MN, sure, I can accept this argument. Perhaps, relating that to karma is one way of understanding the purpose of our existence deeply. I do consider myself a very highly evolved spiritual entity. My relationship with the god is strictly personal and I feel very strongly that any man has no say whatsoever in my relationship with the god including relating that to my karma. Perhaps, I am being punished in my past life that would result in my deafness yet, I grow up having a very good life and I don’t ever feel penalized for my deafness. On the contrary, I came to perceive the karmic lesson in probing my deafness as a method to explore different methods of communicating than speaking audibly and building myself as a communication virtuoso talent. Only time will tell that. Sure, Indians want to box deafness with their understandings and appreciation of the concept in karma however they also should be able to accommodate sensitivity. Basically, this is not their place to say that one’s deafness is the cumulative result of one’s karma. I came to believe that karma is much more than the outward signs such as deafness. Also, we must consider whether by relating to karma is their way of putting us in our places supported by my observations towards the rigors of following caste or just being empathic about the challenges in our lives. I do realize that the concept of karma is strictly neutral however how it is presented in arguments would suggest otherwise.

Karma just means "activity" - it can be good or bad. Or a good karma can get a bad result and vice versa. So by simply saying "its karma" doesn't mean they are talking about negative karma. Everything is a life lesson and meant to help us grow.

My brother was born deaf and it was quite an adjustment for my newly-immigrated parents to learn ASL and to take all the special classes they had to at the time to adapt to the needs and care of their deaf child in America. My younger sister and I grew up learning a mishmash version of home 'signing' and proper ASL. The latter being learned at community centers that offered classes and certification. But we never used the proper ASL language with him. We relied on him reading lips and our own form of home signing.

My brother has been to India several times with our family and there is not a lot of communication on his part with my relatives except in the most rudimentary forms of crude signing with each other. I often felt he missed out on a lot of cultural aspects b/c he coudlnt' communicate or know what is was like to hear a different language. For him mostly, he's not one to ever sit and chat, but is always on the move, so he formed friendships through exploration, motorcycle rides, and sheer charisma. He's not "shy" to try to talk to people and he isn't ashamed he's deaf. Nor does he think it's a disability. My parents do however wish for him to marry a hearing girl because they figure life would be 'easier' int the real world for them. My siblings and I have mixed feelings on this notion.

He has visited the Kasergood school for the deaf in India on one vacation and interacted with children who spoke Indian Sign Language, which was neat to see. Mostly we felt blessed that he was always able to study/go to school nearby our home and never had to go into a boarding situation. As with a lot of deaf people, his other skills are heightened. He has an incredible memory, sense of direction, and ability to take things apart and put them right back together. He's always been the "sharpest" out of us three.

In terms of ignorance, I find a lot of people say things like, "Oh, he doenst' look deaf!" and I still don't know what a 'deaf' person is supposed to look like in comparision to a hearing person. And the second irritating statement is that they remark on how smart he is, as if because he's deaf he has learning disabilities, etc. That being said, my brother doenst' have proper grammar usage at all when he writes, but mainly because he doenst' care about grammar or proper writing. He writes how he speaks often leaving out the filler words and getting straight to the point. Sometimes people can mistake that as someone who has a low intelligence when all it is is him being lazy.