It is a testament to the maturity of the Indian state that Ajmal is being tried in an open court in front of the world media instead of putting him in a 6 by 4 cage and holding a secret trial for him.

Just heard the news on the morning commute on the BBC news on NPR. Kasab just saved a lot of taxpayer money..
on a side note the BBC never used the word terrorist, in their newscast, I also checked their website they always say " mumbai attacks" or "deadly attacks" never say terrorist attacks and call kasab as one of the "armed gunmen", is it BBC's policy? just wondering ...

It appears to BBC policy. I'm sure Whitehall might be worried that by calling these people terrorists that they might appear to be taking sides in their former Colony's native problems and anger their sizable domestic Pakistani and Eurabian massive.

is it BBC's policy? just wondering ...

It is not just BBC, most of the western media arranges the words for the Mumbai story in a very interesting way. Brits are bastards, so they cannot help it, however this WaPo article (authored by a desi) terms Kasab as an 'adversary'. :)

I use to keep a count of references where authors distinguished between 'attackers' or 'militants' who attacked Mumbai and the 'terrorists' who are causing trouble in Afganistan. Interestingly even today no body in the western media has the courage to refer 9/11 culprits as militants.

The US is serious about making money in India:
Example 1: Spielberg has an agreement with Anil Ambani that gives Spielberg $325 million
Example 2: Hilary Clinton has met two billionaires, Ratan Tata, and Mukesh Ambani, and is known to have collected money from India
Example 3: GM, though faring badly in the US, seems to be OK in India
But making money is possible only if there is peace. So the US is putting pressure on both India and Pakistan to compromise.

>>>It appears to BBC policy.

I also noticed that they still say that the Indians "claim the attacks were made by Pakistani based militants" as if there was still some doubt about that.

The only reason the west takes the mumbai terror attacks seriously is because westerners were targeted and killed. Otherwise, this is considered part of the regularly scheduled indo-pak intramural activity. Unfortunate, but you know, the east is the east and so on...

And, sadly, most indian leaders, safely esconced behind "z-class" security, treat it exactly in that same way. Chalta hai, these things will happen and so on.

Just thought I would chime in abt. some misconceptions on the Western media's choice of words. The default for any such attack used to be "terrorist." Political Correctness, in addition to vociferous protestations from academics and politicians and ethnocentric organizations, has moved most Western media outlets to refer to all attackers, even if operating off of clearly Islamist inclinations (and despite his initial motivation to become a robber, it is clear that this guy ultimately became quite willing to go with the Islamist flow so to speak) as "militants" or "youths" or whatever other completely nondescriptive terms they can think of. The BBC is the worst as far as this tendency goes, as they qualify every statement of fact, even if clearly established, in such situations with "allegedly" or "claimed," as in "India claims the perpetrators were Pakistani citizens," vs. "the perpetrator, a citizen of Pakistan..."

Obama himself has dropped the word "Terrorist" from official lexicon, even when dealing with threats within the US.

Right leaning media (think Fox News) does not usually eschew words like "terrorist" or "Islamist" and they are fairly regularly chastised for "alienating" moderates when they use words like that.

In short, with the possible exception of 9/11 (presumably the media will call them terrorists because they know the outcry of the masses that would result if they did not)--I only say possible because many outlets now just refer to the 9/11 perpetrators as "hijackers"-- this is not a case of Western media's apathy to those in the East. Rather, this is a case of political correctness watering down language. I think Orwell had a name for -- "Newspeak"

Looks like the confession follows a 'containment' strategy, where Pakistan's involvement is deflected and limited to the "rogue" LET, who of course would now disappear and return in another form. The Indian dossier has mention of his contacts with ISI and the Pakistani Army, which the current confession sidesteps.

I am guessing he was given an exit offer by Pakistan, where his family would be financially compensated. The confession blunts the trial's visibility, and once he is sentenced/hanged, the whole episode will be buried, and it will be back to business as usual for Pakistan.

I get the impression that Pakistan is improving as a nation, and that the Taliban is receding in Swaat Valley.

"I get the impression that Pakistan is improving as a nation, and that the Taliban is receding in Swaat Valley."

Brown mahesh, I wouldn't go that far :)

I agree with the poster who said follow the money. Just as there is an Afghanistan Industry, there is a Pakistan Industry, and Kasab and his trial is a bit of a thorn on their backside.

" phillygrrl on July 20, 2009 02:04 PM · Direct link

"I get the impression that Pakistan is improving as a nation, and that the Taliban is receding in Swaat Valley."

Brown mahesh, I wouldn't go that far :)"

I think you would go that far if you put aside your vulgar nationalism.

I think we are also missing another side of the story here - the Maoists have killed more people in West Bengal but they were never viewed as a threat to India ( at least the NRIs I know have never spoken about bombing Maoists). So much so, Indian soldiers were brainwashed to assume those Maoists as Pakistanis to boost their morale.

Pakistan's economy is growing at the rate of 3.5 % this year compare to India 5.9% and this while Pakistan is facing an internal war.So far ,even with such disastrous internal situations,KSE and FDI have been increasing drastically.The only setback is the inflation.

Since its existence,Pakistan has been scoring higher GDP per capita than India - it has tremendous potentials - the Pathans and the Punjabi Shaiks and Menons are known to be remarkable traders and business people. The opening of Gwadar and gas pipeline will spearhead Pakistan's economy to the growth rate of 6-8%.

The Indian journalist M.J Akbar found the 'gunmen' description ridiculous too, and sent a sharply worded letter to the BBC management. Nothing much came of it, except this fine example of British verbal trickery

I think you would go that far if you put aside your vulgar nationalism.

Randy, Phillygrrl's folks are from Pakistan, so be cautious before accusing anyone of "vulgar nationalism."

Well poor Kasab is going to have a field day getting an Indian court to sentence him. The murky process of dealing out justice isn't something Indian [COURTS: NOTE FROM SM INTERN: AVOID USING GRATUITOUSLY OBSCENE LANGUAGE, OR RISK GETTING DELETED/BANNED] specialize in (I did not mean courts. I don't want to be arrested for contempt of those hallowed Victorian buildings with ornate cobwebby fans on high ceilings, and severe looking babus in Black, wearing straw-colored wigs, that have never once, through their existence, have been influenced by politics or money *cough*)

Kasab is the flavour of the day. His fine features endear to the Indian taste for Caucasian looking people, and enhances his personal magnetism. It also gives the Indian elite something to flog, and to distract themselves with. The War Against The Reds and other Disaffected Groups (aka Terrorist communities) that is raging in the Tribal hinterland isn't nearly as interesting for lack of dramatic central characters to rival Kasab. He should be judging reality shows, and will be soon, something tells me.

I think we are also missing another side of the story here - the Maoists have killed more people in West Bengal but they were never viewed as a threat to India

What exactly is your point here, Randy? Even if we assume that the Maoists have killed more people, does it diminish the magnitude of the crime committed by Kasab and his pals in any way? Are you offering an oblique justification?
As for never having been viewed as a threat- link.

"What exactly is your point here, Randy? Even if we assume that the Maoists have killed more people, does it diminish the magnitude of the crime committed by Kasab and his pals in any way? Are you offering an oblique justification?
As for never having been viewed as a threat- link."

I was by no means diminishing his crime. I was just pointing out the Pakistanization of the Maoists by the Indian soldiers in order to inflame the morale to fight the Maoists.

I was just pointing out the Pakistanization of the Maoists by the Indian soldiers in order to inflame the morale to fight the Maoists.

Where did you get the above information? Could you provide some links?

"I was just pointing out the Pakistanization of the Maoists by the Indian soldiers in order to inflame the morale to fight the Maoists."

Its already happening on the operational level. The govt has decided to establish "cantonments" in the Maoist regions, which is basically a precursor to the Army being deployed against the Tribal population. Nothing new, considering the IA has been deployed against the NEs and the Kashmiris for decades now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/advice/terrorismlanguage/ourapproach.shtml

Where did you get the above information? Could you provide some links?"

Here is the link:
http://www.sacw.net/article951.html

Randy, you misrepresented the article. It only says that the security forces informally use this idiom ( referring to maoist dominated territory as pakistan; perhaps b/c of their prior experience in kashmir, the author hypothesizes), and not that they are being "brainwashed" by anybody. in fact the author has no explanation for why this idiom is used, and neither does he produce any evidence. Try to be a little more precise the next time.

I forgot too add--to summarize-- that you cited a hypothesis as a fact. I urge people to read the thing themselves to verify.

"perhaps b/c of their prior experience in kashmir, the author hypothesizes"

That's one explanation nemo.But the need to Pakistanize the Maoists didn't originate merely from the past experience in Kashmir as the author tried to suggest and played around with.The term jihadis would ring more true in that case. The need to reduce enemies ( regardless of who they are) into a proper noun called Pakistan showed the need to find something much more hated and volatile in order to spark the morale of the security force - the much needed morale that seemed to be missing as Indian force failed to tame the Maoists so far.

Yes,the process of brainwashing took place here because a false term was used purposely by the security force in order to buttress the support to attack the Maoists.

Randy,
The Jawed Naqvi article was entertaining read. Did you perchance pick up his agenda? He sounds desperate to somehow paint Hindutva as the enemy and arch villain, leaving crater sized holes in his theory of BJP/Shiv Sena/Industrial complex out to take over the world. The guy finds that the "Maoist guerrillas come with their own frequently compelling worldview" (yes, quite charming this cultural revolution), belittles the post Mumbai-incident anguish by calling it mob mentality, and was even insensitive enough to accuse the media of displaying glee in it's reporting of the incident.
The Pakistan-isation of the Maoists mentioned by this honourable 5th columnist remains just a story that he seems fond of. I have looked hard on the internet, and have not found it reported by a more neutral/creditable source. maybe you could help.

As for the real Pakistanisation of the Maoists, please see this.

Here is a balanced view of how the Indian security establishment views the Maoist problem

This documentary leaves me numb http://vzaar.com/videos/28473 Kasab is featured talking about his deeds while being treated in the hospital

[quote]
Pakistanization of the Maoists by the Indian soldiers in order to inflame the morale to fight the Maoists
[\quote]

This sounds completely bizarre, I have followed some of the anti-maoist activities of security forces in great detail and never come across this terminology. There is a pretty nuanced approach to maoist violence from the military point of view. Unlike a certain army, no air power is used, boots on the ground are emphasized, there is also a focus on making sure that people are no longer being terrorized. Its another matter that the political folks are busy making overtures to the maoists, declaring amnesties and so on.

I'll say!

I'm very proud of India, and India is doing amazingly well. Not as well as China, but our growth is principled. Now, Pakistan has had some terrible things happen in the last few years, and things seemed to have spiraled out of control when the Taliban invaded Swaat Valley.

However, I think that the tides have turned in favor of Pakistan. This occurred around the time that they won the cricket championship, and this coincided with the Taliban's defeat by the well-trained Pakistani army.

"Not as well as China, but our growth is principled"

Mahesh, did you obliquely hint at China's growth being unprincipled? If we set aside the polemic, an 80% literacy rate amongst women and a higher percentage of its population above the poverty line compared the USA (Look it up, I am not cooking this) will make India's growth look like a charade.

KolaNutTechie

Your enthusiasm for china is all too reminiscent of 30s admiration of stalinist USSR by western intellecturals or more recent infatuation with Maoist China by third-world world progressives.

The truth is that we dont have much information about china from the free press. The govt exerts an enormous amount of control over economic and political issues - and the citizenry for the most part goes along with it. At the same time, we do get reports about tens of thousands being forcibly removed from their lands for industry, hundreds of execution on a routine basis, poisoned milk and toys and so on. And this is just the tip of the ice-berg visible to us..

No question that China has raised the economic standard for their poor, using force wherever the Communist party feels its needed. There is a lot too learn also from the provision of services for most of its citizens and ensuring that women are mostly free to work and express themselves. But I think its fair to say that little is known about the means adopted and their consequences; and some real challenges with the historical falsification and hyper-nationalism that is widely supported and promoted by the chinese govt.

Randy/Nemo, "Pakistan" is a general term used by people in India to refer to the "bad guys".

e.g. When I was in college, going to the toilet was called "visiting Pakistan".

I'm sure soldiers referring to maoist territory as "Pakistan" doesn't at all imply that they somehow think that its really Pakistanis there.

#33: I have never heard that phrase "visiting Pakistan". Which is not to say it may not be in use in some circles.

In any case you are confirming the previous poster's point that demonisation of Pakistan is widespread in Indian society.

Is KolaNutTechie Prema?

if true, it remarkable but sadly not unsurprising that we need another term besides maoist to demonize the evildoers. Godwins's law should apply to mao, who was the bloodiest dictator of the millennium, surpassing both stalin and hitler. i suppose its possible if you measure deaths on a per capita basis he may rank lower but either way its still pretty impressive.

Mahesh, did you obliquely hint at China's growth being unprincipled?

i don't think he meant the growth in and off itself is unprincipled, but rather doing it within the context of a single-party dictatorship. Now this argument may also be too unkind to china's economic liberalization because if one considers the brutal communist conditions from which they started, things are much more "principled" now.

nonetheless, its likely china is now benefiting from one of the most brutal nation-building processes ever witnessed, wiping out ethnic identities and replacing them with a nationalist one and then and even more brutal process of socialization. india, for all the incompatance and brutality that was their socialism, never quite devolved into such totalitarian madness and there's something to be said about that.

anyway, time will tell if the emerging beourgosie will demand political freedoms to go along with their economic ones, but either way a lot of eggs where broken for that omelette.

Well, Al Beruni. Its a very broad, two way street. The Western Intellectuals and Atlanticists are panicky about Chinese model of nation building been seen as an alternative to the free and fair (thuggery), especially now that the laissez-faire bollocks is out in the open. In China atleast adulterators and hacks get summarily tried and executed, in the US they get bonuses. John Thain's $87000 Office rug certainly cost a lot more than what a bulk of retirees lost in the market crash, or more than the most corrupt CCP leader would dare to flaunt in the public space. What id intriguing is "as the world's largest free-market democracy" the Indian Elites find much to be inspired from in the West, while looking to China, a like striving Asian neighbor, is left for the Communists and Traitors. I guess its the belief in status-quo, and the old account of saying that India's growth is more in harmony in nature and thus more 'Principled', which is another way to rephrase that old excuse that hierarchies (such as caste) are natural and Communism is against man's nature. As was said of flying once. Since you don't trust the value of statistics beyond propaganda value, Upward mobility would be a fair indicator - while a son of a man hanged by the Communists as a traitor can rise to become the Premier of that very Communist Party, here, once Rajiv lamented that only 0.15 paisa of every rupee spent reaches the poor, now under Rahul its .05. A certain conclusion can be made about the efficiency and sincerity of the Indian state and how much it has "progressed" in alleviating those sections of society that are not vested in sharing the spoils or enjoying the limelight from a few pink-paged publications in the West. So go ahead - building more cantonments is the way ahead. You can always match China's level of mobilization and police excess, if you cannot even think of recognizing, leave alone equaling, its miraculous feats.

"time will tell if the emerging beourgosie will demand political freedoms to go along with their economic ones, but either way a lot of eggs where broken for that omelette."

For China, the savagery belongs to the past. Lets dwell on the immediacy of the Omlettes that the Maoists are going to cook of the elite beginning with central India now. How organic India's growth has been will soon come out in the open when the shakeup of the old, top heavy bee colony begins as it is abandoned before it crashes to the ground.

well kola nut, i guess it like how the Sri Lankan civil war was won. impressive feat no doubt, but the price is such that there's nothing for us to learn in regards to defeating an insurgency other than don't get into that situration in the first place.

so is china an ideological alternative to the Washington consensus. perhaps, but unlikely given the blood. india has already experimented with central planning and its unlikely she has the willpower to try a Chinese like nation-building process and more authoritarian political and social structure. more likely, china will drift toward the west and become like hong kong.

but India will remain somewhat more fragmented and that will have consequences but she'll be more free as well, and arguably attract capital for that very reason. they'll risk the $87,000 rug, considering the alternative.

[quote]
For China, the savagery belongs to the past
[\quote]

Really? On what basis do you make this astounding claim? Do you know that chinese
executed more than 10,000 people in 2005. Or is that the past?

On the contrary, violence begets violence. Falsification of history, such as denial of mass killings by Mao and murder of peaceful Tianamen square protestors, is going to lead to its repitition. Do you think that Tibetans after death of dalai lama are going to peacefully negotiate? Do you think that groups within China itself dont understand the logic and advantages of violence?