I have been struggling and failing to find an appropriate way to respond to Glenn Beck’s latest insanity. MediaMatters has the video and the almost unbelievable quotes, which about 1.2 billion people are likely to deem to be offensive and tasteless, from a recent Beck broadcast:
For those not able to stomach watching the actual video, the choice quotes are as follows:
And also, in our research that it took us, oh about 40 seconds, we figured out that some of that money here in America winds up in the pocket of a skilled doctor that helps off-set the 20 years of schooling that he endured and the loans he took out. And - you’re not going to believe this one, Karlyn - some of that money seems to go to the 1 million SEIU workers in the healthcare industry that make slightly more here than in India. Because, you know, they have an American lifestyle, maybe a couple of cars, great union benefits, and homes with something that we in America like to call flush toilets. (link)
Quite separately from the nasty slur about India in this quote, Beck’s logic completely escapes me. If anyone can actually make sense of what he is trying to say, I would be curious to hear it. I think this is an elaborate way of saying Americans shouldn’t do medical tourism in India, but rather pay premium rates for procedures not covered by insurance, because some of the money they might be giving a surgeon will somehow go to SEIU workers? (But what’s all this about loans and so on? Is he aware that Indian students bring millions upon millions of dollars into American higher education?)
But of course, the real stunner in this ‘bit’ from Beck is the following:
I don’t want a discounted doctor. I don’t want discounted wages. I don’t want any of this stuff. If I wanted to live in India, I’d live in India. I want not the Indian lifestyle, I want the American lifestyle. I’m sure, no offense to India, I’m sure it’s beautiful and everything. I’ve heard especially this time of year, especially by the - you know that one big river they have there that sounds like a disease? Come on, it does. I mean, if somebody said, ‘I’m sorry, you have a really bad case of Ganges,’ you’d want Cipro.” (link)
While the earlier rant directed at medical tourism, incoherent as it was, had some salience to the health care debate, this bit of assholery is just utterly gratuitous.
I’m looking forward to the day this guy falls back into obscurity. A few months ago, left-leaning activists launched a campaign to get Beck’s advertisers to pull back from his show. While they were successful, it hasn’t done anything to slow him down. Beck’s provocations are working: his rating continue to be high, no matter how many times he’s mocked by comedians and spat at by bloggers. It’s hard for me personally to get newly outraged when this guy has been, for months, comparing President Obama to Hitler and the like.
Still, the level of offense these statements could provoke in India itself, if the comments end up being covered in the Indian media (hint hint), could make things interesting for Beck. (Here’s a tip for any Indian journalists reading this: Rupert Murdoch, who owns Fox News, also owns Star TV… Hmm…)
Well, I'm sure he's an @$$hole, but the sad truth is that Ganga Ma is an open sewer these days.
Sai, maybe so but actually it's Glenn Beck -- he doesn't know that.
He's only making fun of the *sound* of the name "Ganges"; that's all he knows about it. It would actually be a less potentially offensive comment if he were to say, "Have you actually seen the Ganges River? It's filthy!"
What he also doesn't know is that the Ganga has religious significance to millions of Hindus.
Maybe I'm wrong, and Indians, when they hear of this, will merely shrug it off. But it's seemed to me that in recent years smaller and smaller things have been prone to cause widespread offense in India. Think of the uproar caused by Shashi Tharoor's "cattle class" comment, for instance, just a few weeks ago...
What do I know--I'm a DBCD--but--I think (those few) Indians who pay attention to the US are happy enough with the nuclear deal (and embarrassed enough about the true state of Ganga Ma) to let this roll off their backs, except for a few professional grievance-mongers. But, I might well be wrong--we shall see.
Totally rooting for the RSS to get its knickers in a twist over this. Can you imagine the headlines? *head asplodes*
So Beck points out that:
1. hospital procedures are cheaper in India because the per capita income per year of indians is a measly $1000, which is a tiny fraction of american per capita income
2. flush toilets are a rarity in India
3. the Ganges is an extremely filthy river
4. that the american lifestyle is preferable to living in a place like India
What exactly is false in what he said?
Glenn Beck or any other US radio personality is small-fry as far as Indians in India are concerned. So this would not be an issue in India. Indian-Americans, especially the liberal democratic types, on the other hand could get pissed off, but they won't be the first to be pissed-off by Beck!
Well-said, Amardeep. It was totally uncalled for.
Beck’s logic completely escapes me. If anyone can actually make sense of what he is trying to say, I would be curious to hear it.
Some guy in some newspaper made the point some time ago (helpful I know) that Beck is unique in that his MO isn't to come up with some half baked argument or 'research' like Limbaugh etc. He eschews all coherence and just starts fighting, figuring out what he's fighting about on the way. It's purely emotive. "India has cheaper healthcare? Oh yeah?! Well India sucks!"
The problem with the left is they earnestly start explaining why India doesn't suck, when they really should be going "If somebody told me, ‘I’m sorry, you have a really bad case of Ganges,’ your mom would need Cipro"
Since when did the right wing "India Shining" BJP hindutvadis become leftists?
I was talking about the American left
Brilliant!
The problem with Indian politics as analyzed in the USA, is that nobody cares. So, strangely, the Amrikan left, which "likes' the "Islamists" because they "hate" "America" wind up allied against the "Hindus" because they don't like the "Islamists." So, South-Asian politics is really weirdly anti-Hindu (which also means, in effect, anti-Jain, anti-Sikh and anti-Buddhist) in the USA because some Jewish academic at Columbia is trying to suck up to some Muslim because s/he feels bad about the Israelis bombing the sh!t out of Gaza.
Amardeep,
Your analysis is spot on. When is comes from a man who compares President Obama to Hitler, you know it's bigotry. He is an ignorant, classless fool, and it pains me, literally, that he's allowed his own show where he can spew venom and spread his ignorance.
Can you say more about what kind of "class" you want him to exhibit? Do you really mean "caste"? Sorry if I am a "backward" caste.
Thank you for posting this. I was beyond outraged. All he did was to exhibit his ignorance with his senseless statistics and over enactment of everything.
@Hamit - Don't put words in my mouth. As you may well know, the term is loosely used to describe a person who ill-mannered. Don't try to create a controversy where none exists.
Thank you Amardeep for posting this. Regardless of where one falls in the political debate, these types of comments by Beck (and plenty of other Americans as I have personally heard) is rooted in ignorance coupled with arrogance. He recently had several Indian doctors on his show for a health care debate. You would think he knows better, apparently not.
Beck is an idiot.
I don't think anyone in India watches or follows the stupidity that flows out of the fox channel.
Health-care is definitely cheaper in India. I had a full checkup done(blood,urine, MRI, x-ray, and consultation etc) for Rs 1800/- ($45?) at a local hospital in Bangalore.
It was a lot more detailed than any yearly checkup I've done in the US, and a lot cheaper.
Pills cost a lot less. Why? They're made by the same companies and I'd doubt that "standards/quality" is really the difference (try Canada).
Why are Americans paying for the R&D costs for the world's Pharma companies, and why does R&D cost so much (if that's the excuse those companies use).
Anyways, the republicans are always in denial.
The biggest thing holding this country back from true greatness, is the republicans.
Perhaps the name of the river would not sound like a disease to Mr. Beck if he used the Indian name "Ganga" rather than the western name "Ganges".
Therein lies your problem. Logic is not valued here - this is pure and simple propaganda.
I only read the excerpts, but generally speaking, Beck is not relying on logic - he relying on stories that are largely false and emotive appeal. That combined with his populist nationalist and vicious politics makes his style of speech along the lines of 'fascist' though I don't know what the right word for it is.
Appropriate responses include: satirising it, speaking to people receptive to it about actual issues, supporting trade unions taht provide alternative messages that can appeal on a populist front and without nearly as much racism, putting out alternative messages like 'health care good, racism bad', and other ways.
Or we can watch while the 20% of the electorate that are committed palin republicans gradually go more and more insane, kill abortion doctors, and eventually do something so horrific that they are finally discredited - even to themselves.
how appropriate that this comment is on a glenn beck thread.
What's wrong with what he's said? Sure, maybe he could have delivered it in a better way, but he's always sarcastic and arrogant. But he's right about wanting an AMERICAN lifestyle and not an INDIAN one. As far as I know, it's pretty much one way traffic with Indians desperate to escape India and live in the USA and not the other way around.
Yes. Clearly Glenn Beck was offering a well-researched, well-intentioned critique of India and not attempting to score points in the healthcare debate by playing the "HURRR DURRR FOREIGNERS STINK AND THEY NAME THEIR RIVERS FUNNY" card.
Nikhil wrote:
It's wrong because it'll stir up ethnocentric chauvinism among white Americans, which will have definite negative consequences for Indians and other minorities.
Nikhil wrote:
So? I don't see any white Americans clamoring to go back to their homelands in Europe.
Sai wrote:
I think there may be a disconnect between Indians in America and Indians in India, I really don’t think most Indians in India will care. Sashi Tharoor analogy doesn’t work in my opinion is because he is an MP.
I mean people of Indian origin in America
I mean, I have reasons for not liking Tharoor that much myself. But only because he's like the Indian Tom Friedman where he comes up with one way of looking at things and by Crom he's going to shoe-horn anything and everything into that box.
So it's a legitimate reason.
Glenn Beck, though, is just a no-talent assclown.
Am I the only one who watches Glenn Beck occasionally? He acts stupidly sometimes but he also does a lot of original investigative reporting (or his hired staffers do the work, who knows). I don't really care too much on what he says on India, I'm just too tired of "macaca"ing everyone who says anything offensive. Words don't matter anymore, action does.
The people who listen/watch to Beck are basically Reagan Dems--working class (mainly or even exclusively) white people with very socially conservative values. These people have seen their wages and earning power, decrease, and costs of living increase during the past 30 years under both Democratic and Republican administrations. He knows their anger, prejudices, fears, etc., and taps into them.
This is one such instance. He's telling his audience your lives may suck here due to 30 years of policies that never benefited them (top-rate tax cuts, anyone?), but it's worse in India. Beck's making his angry, down-in-the-dumps audience feel a tiny bit better about themselves. If he uses bigotry or insensitivity to do, all the better for his audience. I'm sure that's what they come to expect from him, and like about him.
Beck also knows that these people are the only ones in the entire world who will shell out $20 to see his Christmas movie, when a regular movie ticket averages like $10. He also knows that PT Barnum's maxim is the gospel truth.
"Or we can watch while the 20% of the electorate that are committed palin republicans gradually go more and more insane, kill abortion doctors, and eventually do something so horrific that they are finally discredited - even to themselves."
Now there's a comment that's almost as logical as Beck's!
I can't help but think the love of Palin is mostly just a love of all things that piss liberals off.
I can't blame them for that really. Every now and then I too just want to stick it to the PC nuts, but I catch myself, recognizing that biting your nose to spite your face is generally a stupid idea.
Why are we all surprised ? This is Beck .... He was an idiot before this and he will be an idiot after this. It amazes me that Rush , Beck continue to surprise and offend the left (media matters, Thinkprogress) .
Please stop complaining or he will cry .
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation
You should watch this if you have not done before.
Thats because they are not too welcome back there.
Remember how Amanda Knox got "rail roaded" (as per CNN) into a conviction.
Also, during the reign of King George (Bush), the hostility, even in Britain (a "coalition partner"), was palpable if they figured you for an American.
Did you not get the memo Expat? Those of us who travelled were supposed to say we hailed from the South side of Canada.
As far as you know. Not the end of the road.
@truth hurts fake pride: there was this quote that Amardeep left out: "The best I can figure is all that money goes to high-tech hospitals and doctors who studied at Harvard rather than Gajra Raja medical school."
Which is really amazing considering how many American doctors were educated India. There's probably a 30% chance that the $44,000 American procedure would be performed by a doctor who went to medical school in India and did their residency here.
I hope India ignores the guy - just to show how powerless he truly is.
Only Jon Stewart and Colbert give him the attention he truly deserves.
Which is really amazing considering how many American doctors were educated India. There's probably a 30% chance that the $44,000 American procedure would be performed by a doctor who went to medical school in India and did their residency here.
Yes, and how well they do. My dad in our small community is considered exemplary in his work and in the nearest medical school hospital, where many of his patients are referred, the professors have such respect for him. It's funny how much America was begging these Indian doctors to come to the US at that crucial time in the 70s when they faced such shortage not only in doctors, but scientist and engineers. Funny I don't think there was a problem with the Indian graduates then....My mother reflects how EASY it was to come to US for us b/c of my father's qualifications. There are difficult exams that all doctors that come to practice in the US have to take; for my dad that wasn't a problem and the US gave him every incentive to come. Beck is an idiot and ignoramus.
also, just to clarify what the anti-hindutva, american left finds objectionable is Beck's incorrect conclusion that labor costs account for the price difference between the two procedures. Beck would be correct if medial services functioned like most other goods. But the medical services market is extremely dysfunctional, due to a number of legal and institutional problems that have nothing to do with labor costs.
Is that really something to boast about considering that India had and still has a FAR greater shortage of doctors than America? Your father got educated in India so why isn't he serving indians who are in far greater need of his service than americans?
Glenn Beck does have a point about the low quality of India's educational system. You can find fault with his mocking contempt of India but the facts are on his side.
Has anyone who is opining about Beck actually watched his show? I'm curious. I have admitted to watching him sometimes but I don't get how Beck is confining himself to Reagan Republicans? Isn't he a libertarian with a small 'l'?
"Isn't he a libertarian with a small 'l'?"
No, he isn't. "libertarians" are Republicans who are ashamed to call themselves that.
Have you by any chance seen SNL's 2012? That was a genuinely funny clip.
"Glenn Beck does have a point about the low quality of India's educational system. You can find fault with his mocking contempt of India but the facts are on his side."
From wikipedia:
"In 1996, while working for a New Haven-area radio station, Beck was admitted to Yale University through a special program for non-traditional students. One of his recommendations for admittance came from Senator Joe Lieberman.[citation needed] Beck took one theology class, "Early Christology," and then dropped out.[16][17]"
Not sure this high school graduate should be so contemptuous of others. Jon Stewart is right to skewer him.
Libertarians overlap with Republicans but you can't conflate the two. Have you not seen Beck's numerous 'pox on both your houses' speeches where he asks people to ally with the conservative candidate, damn the party? Thats his major difference with Rush who is arguably more Republican than Beck.
P.S: Not that high school graduates without a college education can't be brilliant or worldly, but Beck clearly isn't. What knowledge he does have doesn't seem to have done him much good.
Right, real libertarians are part of the open borders crowd. Beck's "Messicans stay out of 'Merka" message is popular with the populist right. Though these same people often forget that St. Ronnie signed a major amnesty bill in 1986. Who cares about details like that, anyway?
I think Beck's fundie religiosity also puts him at odds with most secular-minded libertarians.
He can call himself whatever. He's a huckster.
He is rich, famous, hugely successful at what he does, and he looks like he is having a lot of fun. How about you?
"He is rich, famous, hugely successful at what he does, and he looks like he is having a lot of fun. How about you?"
I am well-off, successful and happy, having more than enough for my needs and wants and those of others who sometimes needs help. I'm not greedy. I'm also having fun. I'm not famous, but his type of fame I can do without. How about you?
"hugely successful at what he does"
What exactly does he do?
"...doesn't seem to have done him much good."
I didn't mean done him much good materially. Anyways, when I first saw the headline "Beck...." I thought it was the singer Beck, so perhaps he needs to become a little more famous to dislodge the singer from the minds of some.
"What exactly does he do?"
Channels white working-class grievance, whether real or imagined.
"Sooooooooooooooooy un perdedor. . ."
A lot of what he said is false or extremely generalized. chew on this -
1. many of the procedures that we rely on to save or improve our lives were pioneered in INDIA
2. the proportion of asian doctors to any other race is severely skewed in america - with many of these doctors having studied in India and then come to states. Believe it or not, they pass the same board exams to be able to practice here and they do that with the education they received in INDIA
3. the reason procedures are cheaper in india is partly because of the exchange rate and mostly because the government does not let health insurance companies drive the prices to astronomical amounts (doctors still make a great wage in India, but please - to assume they are less valued and/or less educated is ignorant and laughable)
I really could go on, but it isn't worth my time. Fox news and Glenn Beck are a waste of life - but I suppose everyone is allowed to their opinions. I just don't have to agree with them.
I can't think of too many people in India who either know who Mr Beck is, and/or give a toss about what he has to say about India. So not a chance of getting anyone's inner apparel in a twist.
Regarding his malice, he is feeding the insecurities of his target audience. It is quite clear that it is not his deep personal belief that flush toilets do not exist outside the U.S. He just wants to convince his listeners that they don't.
It is pointless to deconstruct and refute his rant. It is meant to provoke and titillate baser feelings, not the intellect.
Sadly, the fact that he believes that such opinions would enhance his popularity say a lot about those whom he addresses.
Sen, I don't think PS was boasting. She was stating a fact. There are many reasons Indian doctors go to the US, professional opportunity being one of them. And that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is a free world.Isn't that how America was built?
The point is that the US (and also the British) healthcare systems have a very significant proportion of doctors who have qualified in India. They pass the entry examinations to practice in these countries. And from personal experience, I can tell you that at every stage of our careers, we have to stay ahead of the curve to compete with local graduates.
It is also very likely that most, if not all of the consultants employed at the kind of hospitals that offer treatments to western patients would have done their specialist training in the US or UK.
Nikhil, I personally know at least 10 Indian doctors who have moved back to India after obtaining their post graduate qualifications in the US. Here is an article on this 'brain gain'
The real problem with Glenn Beck is his lack of fact checking, and mangling of reality. Everybody knows that if you have a really bad case of Ganges, what you need is Viagra. Ask Raj Kapoor. Of course, we don't have bathtubs in India; otherwise, Cialis might've been an option.
Is that really something to boast about considering that India had and still has a FAR greater shortage of doctors than America? Your father got educated in India so why isn't he serving indians who are in far greater need of his service than americans?
SEN:
First of all I'm not boasting - I am showing facts that show what an idiot Beck is. I am showing that USA was begging for the educated Indian doctors to come work in America and they have thrived here with their Indian education; nothing from their education has held them back and many like my father, are at the top of their game here, with their Indian med school, engineering school, etc. education.
Second you act like my father can't make the choice to practice his profession where he wants to. Do you have a problem with the fact he wanted to make a lot of money and he didn't think he could do that in India? Like millions of Indians that was a problem and he wants to travel to another country to use his superb education to make more money and have more control over his practice that's his business. My father isn't in the nonprofit or public service sector. He has a job that he enjoys and he like financial rewards. Now if you have a problem with that that is another issue and you're free to force all Indian grads at the top of their game to stay in India and do their work. For the moment that's not Indian govt policy.
So again the facts are "not on his side"; Indians with Indian education have been working and using their skills to provide services that are high in demand and they must pass strenuous exams - no problem with the INdian medical degree. Sure there's problems with the Indian education as whole. We are a developing nation, and so we will have many schools that have as disgusting standards as the many, many failing American schools, but unlike the US we aren't a developed nation and we are working with different set of resources. Beck isn't having a discussion on how to improve India's overall education system. He has again made an idiot of himself, as he mocks the education that has brought so many successful indian drs, engineers, scientists to this country and let them use their education to thrive and often surpass their American educated counterparts. Too funny.
Whoever posted that video of Beck complaining about the shabby medical care he received showing what a loser he is - that was great. He really doesn't know what he is talking about and his hypocrisy is so blatant. I am amazed anybody would give anything he says credence.
Ah, a small "l". That explains his need to overcompensate.
Beck and other libertarians clamor for less government and unbridled capitalism. He uses words and imagery that is not PC, but not anymore than big oaf Keith Obermann or Rachel Maddow.
Big Government and socialist policies always fail as Thatcher put it...that you eventually run out of other people's money to spend. Socialism stifles creativity and wealth creation...that is why majority of Indians left India in 70's and 80's.
The key question is not whether Beck's statements have a basis in reality but whether the anchor of a news program can make unsupported claims and off-the-cuff remarks. My problem with Beck is the larger trend of opinion-'journalism.' Is there nothing left in the US that has pure utility? Why do we need to be assaulted with extraneous images and sounds? Say, there is a national emergency (can be something as minute as a fungus that destroys crops), will this media apparatus be able to disseminate information quickly and accurately? Or will the media discuss itself (other TV personalities/ networks) and leave the important questions unanswered; think "a new strain of fungus found in Idaho. Is it harmful to humans or is it just another media frenzy? You decide. Write to us on Facebook and twitter."
Glenn Beck's republithug buddy Newt Gingrich - now there's someone who sounds like a disease, like neutered gangrene.
what's wrong with indian education? Indian universities may be not as prestigious as Harvard or Cambridge ,but some of the first universities in the world were established here in India ,though they don't exist anymore.Americans like Glenn beck should remember that the USA is only a few centuries old.If India was a rich country ,indian universities would be way ahead than any other American Universities.
How stupid Glennn Beck is
Shashi Tharoor's 'cattle class ' term was a reply to a journalist who originally used the term.I don't think any indian got offended by the term except a few ridiculous politicians with no sense of humour.The joke has offended the cows.
Its all about greed is it? We should all have a problem with that attitude. You are basically confirming what Beck said. Even indian doctors, rather than serve their desperately needy countrymen, are desperate instead to leave India for America to enjoy the material benefits of the american lifestyle.
Toppers from indian medical schools making it to American hospitals does not prove that the Indian medical schools are as good as american ones. It is idiotic to claim that.
Glenn Beck is right. India's healthcare system is very shabby indeed. It ranks #112 in the world, way below even countries like Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Senegal, Phillipines, Palau, Guatemala, Sri Lanka etc. Even Bangladesh at #88 ranks higher than India!
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
what does that have to do with how good the healthcare is for the top 20 %ile? prema, you've gotta be a little discriminating, otherwise you look dumber than you are.
Beck's reference to the Ganges is neither racist nor inflammatory in nature. If you're a regular listener of Beck's radio show (which I am) you'll know that he often uses extreme sarcasm. But I wouldn't expect SM to listen to Beck, but rather take a few snippets to use it to trumpet their own typical leftist cause.
Beck's analysis was essentially spot on; however, I agree he did not make much sense when he made reference to docs who went to med school at Harvard (vs an Indian school). In actuality, many of the docs at centers like Apollo Hospital (Chennai) that do procedures for an international clientele went to school in India but did residency in the US.
If Indian education is so great, then why are there many Indians who leave the country to get educated elsewhere (US, UK, Australia)? I'll admit there are some great IIT schools, but outside of that its relatively hit-or-miss.
Yes, like the Shirodkar stitch which prevented my mom from going into pre-term labor and miscarrying me when no American doctors were familiar with it at the time. I am not sure how the WHO came up with its statistics- it's probably including medical care for the underserved, which unfortunately may not be uniformly good- but India has a many-tier system and I am pretty sure that is not what medical tourists are going to get.
Agreed, and interestingly enough, aside from the 10 or so DBDs I know that went back-mostly from the Silicon Valley to Bangalore- in the last year I've seen at least 5 ABDs go to India either for a brief stint or permanently, and I haven't really heard any of them complaining yet. I also disagree that all Indians will think the lifestyle is definitely better in the US and that they are all desperate to leave, especially not in the last decade. Yes, they will get less traffic and pollution, corruption although endemic will be less visible, and there may be more wealth and opportunity (even that is questionable in the recent financial crisis.) But the intangibles, such as the jubilation on Juhu Beach on Ganesh Chaturthi, the family that gives you chai and methi paratha when you're travelling alone on the train, or that their kids won't have a massive identity crisis because they neither look like their friends or the people on TV can be huge for some people.
apparently beck's non-racist non-inflammatory "sarcasm" manifests itself only when it comes to non-white people.
and here's some examples of his "sarcasm" (watch the montage around 0:44). the man is the worst kind of demagogic rabble rouser. but his listeners are as much to blame as he is.
CMF, I didn't say Indian education is great.I said India had the oldest universities in the world.What I said was if India was a rich country like the US OR UK ,Indian universities would do much better.
I know a bunch of students who got very average marks in the examinations in india and got admitted to universities in the UK.So don't assume all those going to the UK or US for studies are the best ones in india.There are agencies in india who help average students to get admission at foreign universities. All they need is money.
I wish I had time on my hands to watch his show and figure out who the advertisers were and write them letters or run a boycott campaign. I'd like to see this jackass turn into a liability.
As far as flush toilets in India.... some homes have them but they don't work properly because the plumbing just isn't up to par. But anyway, that's no big deal.... squat toilets require less water for flushing (bucket system) and therefore are more environmentally sound. And squatting is better for health. (need to keep a bad case of the ganges at bay, afterall, i hear it's similar to swine flu)
While that may be true, that doesn't preclude (or exclude?) Indians who may want to return to India for cheaper healthcare, OR non-Indian Americans who may want to engage in "medical tourism" there.
What issue could anyone possibly take with someone exercising their own freedom of choice when it comes to personal healthcare? Doesn't Beck claim to be all about "freedom"???
I remember on one show he was going on and on about his taxes going to pay for fast food drive threw workers who don't take his order correctly. Last I knew, taxes were automatically taken out of paychecks, Beck. You ain't payin' for nobody!
Green Jobs Czar Van Jones from the Obama administration tried to launch a advertising boycott of Beck. He resigned on September 6th of this year. Anita Dunn, the White House communication director, tried to take Beck off the air. She left her position this November. All ways of saying that the best thing you can do to Beck is give him lots of attention. He relishes feeling persecuted and if you are in a position of authority (one of the numerous Czars appointed by Obama) then he will hunt you down with relish.
Obviously Glenn Beck is an idiot, but I have a problem with celebrations of other countries' "cheap" healthcare systems by people like the SEIU. If they were sharper they would realize that India's healthcare suffers from the same problem as America's: only a few people who can pay can afford to get good treatment. The vast majority of people don't have access to the kind of care medical tourists do. Yes, with lower per capita income, there is a lower threshold of payment - that still doesn't make it universal or fair. Only for those like this American lady and the middle classes of Delhi and Bombay.
I'd of course be happy to stand corrected if people can tell me that healthcare delivery in rural areas in India is effective, but my guess is no. Also, since when does Glenn Beck care about the purity of rivers? Isn't all the filth he's complaining about due to the very kind of development he promotes?
"Obviously Glenn Beck is an idiot, but I have a problem with celebrations of other countries' "cheap" healthcare systems by people like the SEIU. If they were sharper they would realize that India's healthcare suffers from the same problem as America's: only a few people who can pay can afford to get good treatment. "
Nevertheless, India's healthcare is still affordable to foreigners who may want to go there for "medical tourism". It's these people that are being targetted. Everyone should have the right to take care of their bodies in whatever way they see fit. If that means "medical tourism" to countries where surgery is less expensive for them, so be it. Why should I be FORCED to make a decision between paying for healthcare which I cannot afford in my own country or dying?
I'm not familiar with Beck but I think its safe to say, given the libertarian leanings of the American right, he's not opposed to medical tourism and is probably all for it. What he is saying is using the fact that healthcare is so much cheaper in India as a reason for healthcare reform, indeed appearing gobsmacked by the fact as the woman in the SEIU video appears to be, is bizarrely ignorant of the poverty and low standard of living there.
Typical Maoist behavior.
Who cares what Beck says and Beck says a lot of things!
Btw, most people watch him to feel better about themselves, which would explain the high tv rating he receives. He is a nobody and the fact that he has landed a job in a large institution like Faux News makes dumb people around the world think they too can become something.
lol@ the american right having 'libertarian' leanings.
if the previous 8 years proved anything it's that they have authoritarian leanings. they care about supposed unchecked or unbridled government power only when they are out of power.
The existence of authoritarian leanings on the right doesn't mean libertarian leanings are non-existent, especially since the first context is national securty while the latter is economic...after all, the democratic party line is that the current economic crises is due to excessive laissez faire.
Where there's a big tent there's often strange bedfellows
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/006046.html#comment265425
Great clip BP!
"I wish I had time on my hands to watch his show and figure out who the advertisers were and write them letters or run a boycott campaign. I'd like to see this jackass turn into a liability."
Yeah, it would nice to shut up every media voice we brilliant, and righteous people know are so wrong. Considering that all the world's media is now owned by a mere handful, we're getting closer. Maybe that will make you happy.
What right do you have to say he and his listeners can't have their say providing no blatant offenses against basic public civility are committed? We're a democracy. You want more silly "Hitler" eptithets? Just try and shut him up. Calling Obama "Hitler" (no doubt inspired by his being a partial member of the Master Race) is truly silly, but is a diversionary tactic. If you look closely, Obama is actually channelling Mussolini. Screw that stiff, Hitler. He's so 1930s Berliner. But Benito rocks.
I don't know who trained him but the gestures are spot on, or at least they used to be. I think he's losing it a bit now though.
They may be grooming Palin as a sort of Eva Peron. "They" are the ones who really choose these people. Nothing is left totally to chance. Don't be naive.
Of course "working class" "white" people are pissed. Are they the only ones? They're among the ones losing jobs and getting shipped to Afghanistan. Lot of "hispanics" also. What a bunch of suckers. This government doesn't give a shit about them. Personally I wish they'd start a draft. That'd bring a reckoning this country hasn't seen since Vietnam and maybe bring us together since we'd all be facing the same thing. The draft wouldn't discriminate about gender, race, etc., Not these days.
As far as the India disparagement, Beck is more or less right about conditions there, but uses the usual tactless shrillness of loud-mouthed poly-sci shock jocks. From what I've seen of him, he brings up perfectly valid questions that other networks loudly ignore like the elephant in the living room, but then he annihliates them up with immoderate hyperbole, like all loudmouths on these shows.
Don't you understand how it works? The more "they" try to bully you and tell you what's good for you, the more you will fight it. His millions of listeners just don't believe that most of the rest of MSM is on their side, and I'd be inclined to agree if I didn't think virtually ALL of MSM is full of shit.
Boycotts against Beck have been tried. Many of the advertisers who were threatened with boycotts were then flooded with letters of support for Beck and many just ignored the boycott because there are persons of greater credibility who went to bat with chapter and verse, on his behalf. His ratings increased.
We more brilliant, educated, international world denizens do try to silence them but don't try too hard.. They were here as a class long before you or me.
Screw Beck. All these news people are bought and sold by somebody. It's the audiences who are looking for the truth. They're the interesting factor in the quotient.
"Who cares what Beck says and Beck says a lot of things!
"Btw, most people watch him to feel better about themselves, which would explain the high tv rating he receives. He is a nobody and the fact that he has landed a job in a large institution like Faux News makes dumb people around the world think they too can become something. "
Well Mr. Smug-as-a-bug-in-a-rug: if you think you're getting your concerns addressed you would tend to feel better than if they were ignored. . While many of the commenters on sepiamutiny are "leftist", they mostly sound sincere in their opinions, and are what one would expect for the demographic. You, however, sound like an auto-generated sound bite from some web bot.
We need more Glenn Beck's pointing the finger at India's filth, poverty, hunger, backwardness, child slavery, casteism......
Maybe foreigners can shame indians into confronting these issues? It is worth a try.
Eh...about the big river that sounds like a disease...
Go Beck! wrote:
Maybe foreigners can shame indians into confronting these issues? It is worth a try.
Go Beck! is Prema.
And BTW, the only people who will end up being "shamed" are NRIs who have little to no impact on the policies of the Indian government.
But hey, if you want to volunteer yourself to be mistreated at the hands of white Americans, be my guest.
Why don't you point out a single lie in what beck said?
truth hurts fake pride:
He complained about pollution problems in another country, but conveniently left out the fact that America is still the world's biggest polluter.
In 2006, the United States produced 5.7 billion metric tons of CO2, while India only produced 1.5 billion.
Dilip, here is a list of some people who would be able to answer your question authoritatively.
manju, that's disingenuous. beck's argument is that a deficient indian lifestyle as a whole means that the standard of healthcare provided to foreigners must be substandard too or that technical expertise must be somehow worse. there is no proof offered that indian healthcare workers and doctors who are treating american patients are being paid badly. yes, it happens to be true that prices are generally cheaper in india because labor is comparatively cheaper, but beck is conflating a lot of issues. suppose if real income in the US went down and all sorts of social indicators (health, school drop-out rate) went awry, it doesn't necessarily imply that american doctors were either trained badly or being underpaid.
yes, india has great disparity in each sector including great variance in medical treatment (btw, the health disparity literature in the US also records similar variance in outcomes across the US, across class, race, and geography) but beck conveniently glosses over the fact that this woman probably received great care in india and that is a viable option for people for Americans who cannot afford it. Don't you know of desis who regularly take advantage of dental care arbitrage? People who retire abroad cheaply to stretch their pensions? Is it an accident that an inarticulate old woman was chosen as Beck's foil? Why the gratuitous xenophobia? Why not just say that price differentials across countries should not be the motivating reason for healthcare reform here and stopping at that (how about bringing up Walmart and other American corporations which use foreign labor to make cheap products...but no, if someone brings that up she is being elitist...OTOH, low-income folks getting necessary medical procedures are stupid, unpatriotic, and about to get the rest of us killed?)
When Beck had his appendix surgey he claimed that he was alive despite the incredibly dysfunctional medical system; now he claims that we're about to lose the best healthcare system in the world. Someone is always out to get him. Well, for the sake of poetic justice, I hope that wish of his gets fulfilled. Why should Steve Irwin be the only TV anchor to suffer the wrath of the Irony God?
eh, it's probably for the best if nothing happens to him during the next 4 or 8 years. his increasingly irascible and angry followers will just claim that obama's chicago thugs carried out a hit on him, or something.
see above.
suffering fools: I don't know what amardeep is so confused about, beck is being fairly clear and accurate. He's exposing the SEIU argumenta as ridiculous. Heatcare is more expensive here b/c of our standard of living and the training and tech, especially drug development, is simply superior. i don't see that as controversial. the problem with the American system is that people can't afford it. that he neglects his own experience is the right thing to do since its merely anecdotal.
now the problem with his argument is its couched in some insensitive language, like maybe bidens and clinton's remarks a while back. personally, i don't care; i'm more with prema on this one (india should be shamed) except i believe its the socialists who've earned the shaming. but if your sensitivity meter is set differently that your prerogative and we can agree to disagree on the tome, but his actual argument is objectively correct (I mean his debunking of the seiu, not his stand on heat core in general).
This discussion is getting more serious than it should. We can argue (like the 'Argumentative Indian' by Sen?) about healthcare and poverty and technology and whiteass supremacy ad nauseum till the cows come home, it ain't gonna change nothin'. There's only one language that slimebuckets like Beck understand - you gotta hang him by the balls (figuratively, of course). Enough of insipid Ghandian nonviolence. We need role models like Subhash Chandra Bose. Where's the spirit of mutiny?
I'm sure there were some valid points in what he said but such xenophobia is cancerous for the society. Every society has its good and bad sides but to keep an open mind and have a logical and civil discussion is important. That's the reason Obama won this election, he was pragmatic, something we haven't seen in a long time.
Beck doesn't make any sense in this video: The medical care that lady in the video received was on par with what she would have received in the US, but it was cheaper, because costs are lower in India. She didn't say she wanted to live there, just that she could AFFORD the hip replacement there, and she couldn't afford it in the US. For people who are wealthy and CAN afford it in the US, no problem. Not all of us are wealthy television celebrities with a strong fan base.
Some of us are just regular ol' "shlubbs", like Beck references here;
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-13-2009/glenn-beck-s-operation
And by saying that "ganges" sounds like a "disease" at the very end, we are supposed to associate "India" with "illness" and not go there. LOL.
Poor sublimiminal messaging technique.
Anyway, he doesn't address the issue of medical tourism and it's validity for those of us who cannot afford domestic surgeries.
Pray, what does this mean? Boycott does not work as I have demonstrated with Van Jones and Dunn over and over again. Despite your 'figuratively', you seem to be going more in the direction of Sirhan Sirhan.
look liberals, you don't want glen beck (or for that matter rush) off the air. haven't you noticed the Obama admin has all but made rush the defacto head of the republican party? Why? they make all sorts of incendiary comments that liberals can use to tar the entire republican party with. the repubs are then stuck between a rock and a hardplace because they don't want to offend their base while at the same time they don't want to be associated with bigotry. the association therefore sticks and moderates are scared away, turning to the dems while the repuclican party becomes more purist...eventually resulting in them nominating palin and Bam then cruses to a 2nd term even if he can't get healthcare or any other reform done, which looks more likely mostly due to your former VP candidate.
get with the program.
Beck doesn't make any sense in this video: The medical care that lady in the video received was on par with what she would have received in the US, but it was cheaper, because costs are lower in India. She didn't say she wanted to live there, just that she could AFFORD the hip replacement there, and she couldn't afford it in the US.
yeah, there's no sense in what Beck is saying. and it doesn't make sense b/c America NEEDED thousands of Indian drs, nurses, scientists, etc to use their Indian education to come to the US. So why does Beck make it sound like an Indian education has to mean underperformance?....b/c it fits with the lowest common denominator thinking that doesn't take into account the reality with all its nuances. India has first world and thrid world education facilities. Indian drs and nurses must pass an exam to practice here in the States...and the ones that do thrive. My friend who is Hungarian and went to hungarian med school did not pass the what I believe is called the mlse here and she's in quite a fix, b/c I believe you can only take it 3 times and w/o passing this exam you can't go on to residency.
So anyways back to the point, that Beck doesn't make any sense.
And as far as diseased rivers - I want India to clean up the Ganges and I'm sure there's tons of environmental issues that need to be improved...no one is discouting that. But the US despite being a developed nation has its own environmental problems and river pollution - and a developed nation really shouldn't compare its standards to a developing nation that doesn't have the same resources or the longevity as an action nation-state.
How old is my country the US? - it became a country in 1776....and yet the nation's capital river, the Potomac still gets a D- in its environmental grade:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/11/AR2008111101148.html
Prema/Sen/GoBeck/ Blackgodmen/Dhoni/Kabir and whatever else you must use to slink around to give your ignorant comments - it would be nice if you had the courage to keep one name and argue a point from that name, instead of pretending a new ignorant person is commenting to support yourself. Really if the point is good, having one name won't hurt you, just make your point.
b/f a market rebounds it needs to bottom out, allowing it to weed out the excess. only after the social conservative/paranoid militia set sees one of their own crash and burn in a general election will the republican party be able to redefine itself and return to making reasonable contributions. in the meantime, a week republican party inevitably creates a culture of corruption within the dems (which we are clearly seeing now), which in turn gives repubs the perfect issue.to run against once they rebound.
it looks like immigration reform is on the agenda for 2010. if you think beck and the teabaggers are crazy in their opposition to HCR, you haven't seen anything yet. it will be a curious mixture of the crazy coupled with virulent racism. fun times ahead.
Manju well said.
You must have a decent poker game with those skills
Well, after I poker, i don't like to go around telling people about it. But I can't keep her from talking.
nasha dear, no fear.....the emphasis is on 'figuratively'....the pen is mightier than the sword.....mutiny zindabad!
No worries, darling.
glenn beck of fox news says that indian medical system's a joke
and we are nothing but a cheap imitation of the west,and i am
sure that all this information must have taken hours and hours
of datiled research...kudos to you glenn for that story..and
thank you for letting the world know the level to which american
television has fallen to.i just want to ask one question to
glenn and fox networks, do you lot represent the american mass
or only you bunch are such illetarates and dumbos...but kudos to
glenn again for letting us know how low life our medical system is
because the last time i checked the first awake heart surjery was
done in india and strangely not in america..i wonder why...the number
of foreign nationals coming to india for medical healthcare was more than 30% last year..and why is that glenn.
i am sure i have heard wrong about indian education and medical facility..and mr.glenn is right..but i was told that the majority of
good doctors in america are indians and they haven't yet given up their indian passports...but i am sure i am wrong and that can't be true.
i also heard that the USB which americans and people all over the world so gladly use was co-created by an indian...that isn't true..the educational syatem are are a joke...rigt glenn???but statistics state
that 36% employees working for NASA are indians..38% of doctors in america are indians...34% of microsoft employees are indian..American Medical Association saying out of 900,000 doctors in the US, 720,000 actually see patients and of them 48,000 have degrees from India.
according to american medical association out of 900,000 doctors in the us,720,000 actually see patients and of them 48,000 have degress from india..no wait there's more glenn...15.5% of all silicon valley tech start-ups had indians as key founders witha nation wide average more than 7%.
One reason for Indians’ remarkable contribution in the knowledge sector is the US education and the US Census Bureau says 64 percent of Indians over 25 years of age have a bachelor’s degree against the national average of 24 percent.Census Bureau says 64% of indian over the age of 25 have a bachelors degree against the national average in US being 24%
but i am sure glenn beck knew those things and probably didint bring em up because they are probably not true...right how can that be..but when any american calls microsofts help line its an indian picking up the phone and not any of glenn's family..am i right mr.bleck...how many years did you take to pass high school???you said ganga..or ganges thats how you illeterate prounce it sound like a deasease...how dare you insult us..and our religion...what right you have to critisize the oldest surviving religion...and i bet you don't even go to church.
and you talked about "toilet flushes" well lets just not talk about the bathroom habits of westerners...still wiping it off i bet...
thats the time i can spent on dumbs like glen beck and like minded americans...but i am sure not all of them in america are illetarates some of them must have gone to college...well to them i hope you'll support this blog..your comments whatsoever are most welcome
lobe youbeck..keep up the good work..chaw.
Hasn't anyone noticed the really insulting thing he said about India, specifically about our doctors, hospitals and medical systems: that they are substandard, that they are somehow "fake", that Indian medical colleges are laughable. He does all of this when he uses that metaphor of fake Gucci bags. This is more insulting to me as an Indian than any jokes he makes about the names of our rivers or the non-existence of flush toilets (that part is aimed at his domestic audiences in that third-world-putting-down sense). I don't mind all that. But dissing on our intellectual resources and competence is inexcusable.
Hasn't anyone noticed the really insulting thing he said about India, specifically about our doctors, hospitals and medical systems: that they are substandard, that they are somehow "fake
I have; I know that the Indian education system is really suffering and not reaching most Indian children. You'll see my own comments as my father and many of his friends were doctors that emigrated from India during the '70s when the US needed Indian minds to fill the empty spaces in medicine, science, nursing, engineering etc. And these folks sure have thrived.
Beck is laughable in his need to stereotype a developing country's education system, when right here in America, in our hospitals, in our Office Depots, we can see that there are some Indian education systems that are on par with the US despite the wide gulf in resources. He doesn't care about the overall Indian Education system, our problems stemming from poverty, and yes diversity, caste, religion - he doesn't care about nuances but trying to degrade another group of people that aren't white.
The most ironic thing about this (beyond the polluted Potomac's condition in a developed country and the US being one of the world's biggest polluters) is that everyday Beck, the idiot uses technology designed by Indians from Indian schools, 60 minutes did documentary on the competitiveness of Indian IITs, silicon valley is inundated with Indian grads, and Indian drs and scientists are providing the competitive services that Americans for some reason were lacking, that Beck uses. This coming from a guy who didn't finish hs; and we all know that status of many Americans hs in the US.
"And also, in our research that it took us, oh about 40 seconds, we figured out that some of that money here in America winds up in the pocket of a skilled doctor that helps off-set the 20 years of schooling that he endured and the loans he took out."
Well of course. He's forgetting that all Indians are born with a certain level of graduate level medical training.
"And also, in our research that it took us, oh about 40 seconds, we figured out that some of that money here in America winds up in the pocket of a skilled doctor that helps off-set the 20 years of schooling that he endured and the loans he took out."
Didn't Micheal Moore cover this in his movie SICKO? Doctors in UK are paid well but they are happy with just one house and a car. In the US doctors want a house, a Florida condo, 2 or 3 sports cars and a yacht. That's why they need to get paid so much. Not because of student loans.
Though this guy is not being politically correct, it is quite hasty to label him racist. He would very likely have made the same type of remark if the country in question were white. It's more an expression of the superiority/preference of the American lifestyle over a third world country. In other words, if India were a 'white' country, but very poor and offering cheaper medical treatment, he would say more or less the same things.
"the Amrikan left, which "likes' the "Islamists" because they "hate" "America" wind up allied against the "Hindus" because they don't like the Islamists."
That's a very shallow and crude 'left', that merely dislikes people or groups because of their view of America. The real "left' supports freedom, justice and democracy for all people, regardless of religion or current geo-political circumstances. It's also crude, ignorant and shallow( that is, if it isn't motivated and conniving) to project the Israel-Palestinian issue on to India, to score a point about Hindus and Moslems. India is a massive victim of Pakistani instigated terror. Period. You don't have to be Left or Right to see that, or to condemn it. Incidentally, the former presidential candidate John Kerry, a left-liberal, has frankly stated that India is the biggest victim of terror in the world, among all the democracies.
I hope when Glenn Beck is in hospital doesn not get treated by an Indian or for sake Asian doctor trained in India. I didn;t feel idiot beck worthy of a comment but let me just say this an average indian or asian doctor will have more IQ than ignorant beck's whole family.
Don't have to watch this vid to know that Beck is an effing troll.
Oh my.....is Glenn Beck even worth taking seriously/being offended at? If you look at his previous statements, the man is a joke in general.
The Indian Education System seems to have done well by your standards. Not surprised.
Ad hominem attacks against Beck is not going to make him any poorer. Just as a note.