Growing up I adored the holidays. We sang carols in school, followed by vacation and festive parties thrown by my parents’ European friends. The highlight of the season, and our key family tradition, was to walk down 5th Avenue and look at the various Christmas displays in the shop windows.
For me, my favorite parts were the rampant commercialism and the massive displays of conspicuous consumption. Christmas was never a family holiday, we never kept a tree in our Manhattan apartment and in my Jewish neighborhood nobody believed in Santa, a custom my neighbors explained was a bit of gentile foolishness for children who were too slow to notice that apartments had no chimneys.
For these reasons I never developed a deep abiding affection for the holidays. Many of my brown friends are thrilled that the season is upon us, talking about how they plan to make the holiday their own, putting a Khanda on top of a “Christmas Tree”, etc. And why not? The tree is an old pagan tradition that was only grudgingly accepted by the Catholic Church, all the best Christmas songs were written by Jews, and Santa Claus is Punjabi .
Personally, I’m more of a bah humbug kind of guy. Where I live in the Midwest, strangers answer your Happy Holidays with a Merry Christmas in such a way to make me want to declare war against it, or explain to them in a pedantic fashion that the early Christians didn’t celebrate Christmas because birthday celebrations were seen as pagan, and that most of the traditions associated with Christmas are either pagan (like the word Yule) or the result of fairly recent invention. With such stress, there’s a reason why cardiac mortality increases this time of year.
How about y’all? Are you grinchy like me, viewing Xmas as just a cheap travel day? Or do you have a sentimental attachment to the holidays and all their trimmings? (video after the fold)




Cheap travel day.
For my 3 year old, Christmas is:
1) Santa Claus, though don't make me sit on his lap at the mall.
2) New trucks. Where's my present? I want more trucks!
3) Everyone has lights decorating their houses, can we too?
4) Christmas songs learned from Dora the explorer: "Feliz Navidad, Prospero Anos y Felicidad!"
5) A 3 foot high plastic tree with lights.
6) Lots of odd Christmas movies on TV trying to make sense of the Santa myth.
In short, a pleasant time Daddy is not inclined to discourage.
Tree, gifts, and the whole (secular) lot. Off to open presents - happy holidays to all!
I am pretty grinchy.... which you can probably surmise since I am online right now.. ;)
There are certain things I like about Christmas-- giving to others, spending time with family, eating a special pastry we always make (yum!) but I think usually these small things get overshadowed by obnoxious commercials, hideous Christmas songs, rampant consumerism, and a full list of obligations one must follow.... which results in me wanting to hide. Maybe some day I can sort of adapt Christmas to be more pleasant in my book...
Also, I think the lack of children in our family at this time makes it even less exciting...
Growing up, did the Christmas thing at school - very little at home.
Think we did a fake tree sometimes. Now my gf is really into the holidays.
The music can be a bit much after a while, but enough classic movies to keep you
entertained. Think it also depends on those around you.
So - off to open presents - Merry Christmas everyone !!
I love Christmas and the holiday season because it is so lovely and quiet at work. Hate it when January comes around and people start making their way back.
Growing up in a village in Kerala in the old days. Christmas Tree was not prime, but Christmas was all about making a 'Piravi vilakku'(a big star) with bamboo sticks, tapiocca sticks and coconut lamps. Never had Santa, but "Pappanji" was fun. Kids and teens in our family used to get a little taste of home distilled spirits, which was something that us naughty kids looked forward to all year. Assisting the elders with distillation process, gave us opportunities for creative sourcing. I can give some credence to the theory that the west sourced distillation ideas from the east. Caroling was fun, because it gave us hooligans to get into the homes of pretty sweet hearts at least once a year. There was no better fun than giving a wink to those cuties, at the comfort of their homes. Becoming a Pappanji was always a wish for me, but I was never a good enough dancer to qualify. Beating those drums, tambourines and singing it at the top capacity of the lungs was more important than the melody. People got used to the sound of drums throughout the night as we were busy visiting every home. December used to be misty and chilly in Kerala, so creating a fire at night was a custom around our area. Noone even thought about putting firewood in a fire, as wood was valued, so collecting twigs and dried leaves was kids daytime duty. Not much of gifts, but getting a new set of clothes bought with 'Christmas Rebates' was awesome. There were only 3 or 4 kinds of toys that was ever made in those days. A gun, whistle, ballon and a ball, that was pretty much it!. The fun part was making those at home than buying it. Hm.. magical times..in a totally different way. My kids never even try to relate to those memories. Old memories are good, I am trying to create some memories for my kids in a totally different world.
Landbeyond.. Thanks for sharing :)
custom my neighbors explained was a bit of gentile foolishness for children who were too slow to notice that apartments had no chimneys.
It's always funny how people become super-rational where *other* people's superstitions are concerned.
For these reasons I never developed a deep abiding affection for the holidays.
And this is the intended result of that selective scepticism.
@logic: Behave please. I deleted your comment because I don't care to have what you think you know about my personal life discussed here, but I have no explosive range, and I still insist there's no reason for people in supermarkets, car garages, etc. to insist on wishing a merry CHRISTMAS to somebody who is obviously not Christian.
@Wunderbar: Sorry if I wasn't clear. Most grownups love the holidays without believing in Santa, the two aren't connected. No, the holidays don't mean anything to me because they never really became a part of my life as an adult, and actually I have few friends for whom xmas is a big deal other than as a regular gathering point for family. In my family, that's Thanksgiving, so we feel free to travel on or around xmas.
@LandBeyond7Zs
Nice post.
My public elementary education + schmaltzy Christmas eve movies (It's a Wonderful Life, Charlie Brown Christmas, etc) turn me quasi Christian for about a week. The baby Jesus in the manger story is peaceful and happy so I have no problems getting behind it even though I'm Hindu. Then again I cherrypick whatever I want from different religions so I'm probably an exception...
If you are so "Personally, I’m more of a bah humbug kind of guy.".. why you are so bothered to write a whole article about it? Quit whining publicly and meditate. And I don't care if you delete this comment, this comment is for you, not for the rest of the sepia readers. I came here today to see if Sepia had any coverage on the AP state split or the ND Tiwari scandal. Instead I get one person's moaning as if it is a personal blog..
It IS a personal blog!
I like this blog. It's awesome. It highlights a shared experience among indian kids (with indian hindu parents) growing up in a country where xmas is a very big deal. I personally like the festive season. Although it's not religiously celebrated by my hindu family, putting up an xmas tree (even if it's fake), decorating it and exchanging gifts in our home is kind of analagous to lighting firecrackers, getting 'clothing' presents and eating plenty of delicious food on diwali with your family - both have fun times with family and friends written all over them. The love is palpable :)
as a hindu, someone wishing me a merry christmas is not a big deal. the person means well and is not necessarily trying to push a particular religion at me. there are better things to get upset about.
the only thing i dislike about the season is the ridiculous traffic that inevitably occurs within a 5 mile radius of any shopping local.
since marrying my jewish better half i have become more sensitized however to the intricate and sometimes not-too-obvious complexities of this season. for example i grew up loving the charlie brown xmas special until my then fiance pointed out that one of the psalms recited during the episode is basically accusing the jews of killing christ. i guess i wont be passing the episode to my future kids! i grew up pretty oblivious to judeo christian history but i know my kids will be far more exposed.
I get grinchy until the last few days before Christmas. Then I decide not to ruin the holidays for the younger kids in the family. But when I was younger, we didn't really celebrate it so much. What Amardeep said.
introverts are always screwed no matter the holiday.
So who would have expected that the resident "right-wing Hindutvaadi fascist" would be the most Christmas spirited one here?
I mulled wine and put up lights. I even cut down a tree!
The trouble with you kids is that you intellectualize too much. Give the Yoga Family an excuse to throw a party. ANY excuse.
Yoga Fire, you're a dhimmi!
Just kidding, and Merry Christmas.
i like it. my parents made a proactive effort to minimize its celebration when i was a kid, but now they've gone over the green & red side :-) it's the holiday of the majority of this nation, and most of its religious valence is totally gone (and as ennis points out that valence was imparted, not originally there), so i'll celebrate it heartily with my kids. though my mantra is more than the season needs no reason, aside from the fact that we need one.
The holidays always get me uber excited. Break from school, from work, shitload of chocolates and goodies from customers (which we deserve for taking their daily crap), the entire city adorned with festive lights...As a child though, my mom practically killed Christmas for us, refusing to put up a tree because it would be wholly un-Islamic. I use to think santa didn't show up because we didn't have a tree or decorations. Gotta say though, made me stop believing in the old man wayyy before the other kids did. One day when i get my own place, i'm gonna make up for all those hopeless, wrecked christmases...one day!
I get labeled as a grinch this time of year, too, Ennis.
My family never celebrated Christmas. We would sometimes all get together because it was the one time of year our close relatives all had a day off at the same time. But there was no red/green/santa stuff. I liked having the chance to get with my family, but there was no "spirit of Christmas" about it. I just missed them. When my brother and I were very little, we would beg our mother just to get us a small tree - this was because we felt left out of all this fun we saw our classmates having and none of our holidays were celebrated with as much pomp and fun. She didn't ("It's not our holiday") and now looking back I am glad that she didn't give in. I'm still not happy with our lack of holiday traditions, but that's our own family's issues to work out. I hope to make Vaisakhi special for my own kids some day.
But what my mother said stuck with me - it isn't my holiday. So why should I be forced to celebrate it? Why do my own people (Sikh/Punjabi/Desi/etc.) look at me like I'm crazy when I am not dressed up in Christmas colors at the party we all attend on Christmas Day? I'm not crazy about people in my parents' prayer group wishing me a Merry Christmas, but I accept it with a smile and thank them because I know they are not celebrating the birth of Christ, but rather what they have come to feel is part of being an American.
However manufactured it is, it is still a Christian holiday. Or at the very least, it's not a Sikh holiday. Or a Punjabi one. And no, I don't feel like it's an American one either just because everyone gets the day off. My family celebrates Thanksgiving and I observe Memorial Day/Veteran's Day/President's Day/Labor Day/etc. Many non-Christians in India celebrate Christmas, too, and they also look at me like I'm a jerk when I say I don't celebrate it. Last time I went to India, my cousin had her patka-wearing brother dress up as Santa Claus for their country club's Christmas party. Yes, it's weird to me. What is everyone's deal?! So many of my parents' generation cry out for us American kids becoming too westernized and American, and losing our culture and religion. But I'm not allowed to feel uncomfortable when the Sikh prayer group is planning their Christmas party.
Again, it isn't *my* holiday - but it might be someone else's. So if all my Sikh friends grew up with Christmas trees and a tradition of opening presents and it's that important of a holiday to them, that's fine. Enjoy. But if I let you live, you should let me live, too.
@Ennis: Re Comment #10, "I still insist there's no reason for people in supermarkets, car garages, etc. to insist on wishing a merry CHRISTMAS to somebody who is obviously not Christian." By "obviously not Christian," I hope you don't mean brown, because that's all kinds of wrong. This is the same kind of logic that Jehovah's Witnesses use when they make an effort to pass their literature along especially to the brown person in the subway car because they figure the brown person isn't Christian. :-S
@ Fuerza dulce: You don't have to have any racial or cultural ties to a holiday to celebrate it. You could participate just because it gives people joy, and it will no doubt rub off on you, I think this applies to any kind of festival. It makes me really happy when non-Hindus participate in Diwali and especially Holi festivities at my university, so I feel welcomed when people wish me a merry Christmas. I've found it more fulfilling to *add* holidays rather to designate 'yours' or 'mine'.
@Sharon: I've got a turban and a beard, and wear a kara. It's not hard to figure out.
Yoga Fire wrote:
I'm glad to see that your family is so enthusiastic.
On the other hand, my overworked parents don't have the time or energy for such a celebration.
They use this holiday as an opportunity to take a well-deserved break.
perhaps ennis is being mistaken for a greek orthodox priest. we all look alike.
Interesting article in NYTimes about comedian Dan Nainan and Christmas traditions...
If a celebration is stressing you out friend, you're doing it wrong.
wtf?
Linus:
How do you get "basically accusing the jews of killing christ" out of THAT!!?!?!??!?!?
campmuir says:
ennes says:
good to know that the two of you will have each other for company in the overanalysis bunker.
All the Sikhs and Hindus I know celebrate Christmas with a slap up Christmas dinner, children and magical excitement for the kids, and general family get-together. Its a happy family time of year. Its great. Doesn't mean you're any less a Sikh or Hindu because you do indulge in the Xmas spirit.
@logic: Have you never heard of the War on Christmas? All of the conservatives who are strongly opposed to companies saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" because this takes the Christ out of Christmas, and promotes a multi-cultural secular agenda? Bill O'Reilly, Michelle Malkin, and various others have been going on about this for years. It's overanalysis only if you agree with them or if you've totally ignored all of this.
I liked the holiday season much more when it was an open secular multicultural holiday, like when I was in elementary school.
@turnip: I happily participate in holidays from other traditions when I've got a choice. What I don't like about Christmas is feeling like I don't have a choice conjoined with the reminders by some that the only way to celebrate it is their way, the full on Christ thing. But I am an xmas grinch, no doubt about it. Bah Humbug and all of that.
BTW - how many of y'all are psyched for Kwanzaa now? I mean, shouldn't all of these comments about enjoying a holiday just because it's fun apply here? Or will you tell me now that Kwanzaa's somebody else's holiday and not really your thing?
ok, if your defense is that you are as batshit insane as oreilly and malkin and "various other" rightwing conservatives, that's your prerogative.
what? kwanzaa is a fun holiday tradition here in the us? apparently i didnt get the memo.
How do you celebrate December 25?
Pliss to be expressing your vote.
But does it make me less of a nice/fun person or less of a person worth knowing if I don't celebrate Xmas? Because I have to be honest, I'm pretty awesome.
One of the commenters above mentioned how they like it when non-Hindus like learning about Diwali and join in the festivities. That's cool. But that's different than what we're talking about. I'm open to learning about other cultures, but my friends aren't inviting me to learn about how their family celebrates Christmas or their culture overall in this scenario. I'm talking about just not wanting to celebrate it in my own home.
Neither Ennis nor any of the commenters saying they don't celebrate Christmas ever said that those folks out there that do are worse/less brown/ignorant or anything of that sort. A lot of people inferred insult. Maybe it's your own insecurity. When I say that I don't celebrate Christmas, many people assume I'm trying to put down those who do. I'm not. I'm just stating a fact - that I don't celebrate Christmas and that this time of year doesn't hold anything special for me aside from maybe having a chance to see some extended family because we all have the same time off. And that is because of the reasons stated in my earlier comment. Do what you like, and I'll do what I like.
interesting comments. Fuerza Dulce, your comment have been pretty subtle and i see you're being even-handed. but if i didn't read the whole comment i would have gotten a wrong impression ;-) as you say, live and let live. but something like this seems more strident than the rest of the comment i'm quoting from:
However manufactured it is, it is still a Christian holiday. Or at the very least, it's not a Sikh holiday. Or a Punjabi one.
i mean, i don't agree that it's "still a christian holiday." it is for *some* people, but not many people. i know, because i'm not christian, nor "cultural christian," and don't have any religious feelings about christmas at al you probably know that the original "war against christmas" (using that specific title, anti-christmas campaigns sometimes sprouted up in the medieval world too, but not with that name) was by the puritans during the english civil war, so many christians thought it was fundamentally pagan. also, many ethnic punjabis in pakistan are christian, right? i guess you could say they're not numerous enough, i don't know. but bringing the ethnic element seems going a bit too far. very few ethnic groups have no believing christians among their numbers.
anyway, i stand by the right of people to be grinches or dissent from the celebration of christmas. it's a big country, and we're all entitled. just as i personally have embraced christmas despite the fact that my family is muslim and south asian (so it isn't my "natal culture"), i embrace those who reject it for a variety of reasons too (i know atheists who feel it's too christian, and plenty of jews, muslims, etc., as well as christians who feel it's too pagan). shame on people who turn a season of goodwill into a cudgel for their own beefs! seems that the beefs aren't with christmas as such (as noted in some of the comments), but with some of the "partisans" of the season (the same people would not doubt scold me for asserting the right to a non-christian christmas).
Razib:
The only reason I brought the ethnic element in is because it specifically relates to my personal reasons for not celebrating the holiday. It wasn't meant to imply that Christmas is an ethnically specific holiday. People celebrate (and don't celebrate) holidays for different reasons and as a result of different sentiments/attachment, depending often on how they identify themselves. I identify myself as American/Sikh/Punjabi (and a few other things). I celebrate Lohri sometimes and that's as a result of my being Punjabi and has nothing to do with my American/Sikh side. I celebrate Vaisakhi as a Sikh holiday but others celebrate Vaisakhi as a cultural holiday.
That's all it was :)
Y'all did a lousy job of observing the first day of Kwanzaa.
Umoja (Unity): To strive for and to maintain unity in the family, community, nation, and race.
I'm not a fan of "Happy Holidays!" if only because I would not like anyone saying that to me on Diwali.
@Amrita: What's wrong with Happy Holidays? It's inclusive and generic, and doesn't presume which particular holiday you celebrate. It's a greeting which is in the holiday spirit.
When I am living in India, I don't feel any qualms about joining in the Holi or Diwali (etc) celebrations, but you are right that I probably would not necessarily celebrate this on my own (I wouldn't really know how to celebrate without help at this point anyways!) But I do enjoy the communal celebrations-- playing colors, or family gatherings, eating sweets.
But also, my friends in India are very sweet and always make sure to wish me a Merry Christmas or whatever holiday is happening in the U.S. This year my future-family-in-law made a special point to call and wish me a Happy Christmas, which I found very sweet and touching. I of course try to also call and wish them on their special occasions. I think one of the big differences here is that in India people are a lot more aware of holidays celebrated in other parts of the world, whereas Americans pretty much fail in that department. Maybe an episode of the Office gave them an idea that there is a holiday called Diwali, but I am not sure any of them would know to wish someone a happy Eid or Holi, or so on.
In that respect I would find it very annoying if people expected me to take part in Christmas without being bothered to find out about my own traditions.
@Amrita
True. It is not a holiday in US and if Diwali happens to fall in the month October then there is not much holiday spirit either. Often it is the opposite of holiday spirit as corporations are busy "managing costs" with layoffs to burnish Q4 numbers.
1) In India, christmas is a cool festival, emblematic of modernity and westernization. You demonstrate your personal sophistication and advancement by celebrating some little bit of christmas. In the indic traditions, celebrating yet another holy day has no negative meaning anyway. So that accounts for the behavior of Fuerza Dulce cousins/friends in india.
2) For immigrants from india, christmas is a pretty easy thing to assimilate into. Most indian immigrants have migrated for professional and educational advancement, if saying merry christmas helps with it, not a problem. In any case, the tail-wind from (1) also has an impact on their behavior.
3) For non-christian IBD's things are no doubt quite different. Here you have a situation where you completely belong to this country, but your traditions may not be represented in the public square at all. You may be patronized/bullied as a child because of this difference. Your parents are likely immigrants, indian immigration is still pretty recent (mostly post-1965), so they may not have much of an idea how to help you negotiate this difference. Hence the slightly dyspeptic tone of some of the IBD comments vs. the whats the problem tone of the ABDs.
oops. reveral alert - I meant
Al beruni wrote:
I think you mean "non-christian ABD's", right?
I can only take your word for it babe.
Nope.
Hey, maybe its yours! ;-)
I guess we'll never know.
Anyway, Christmas can be celebrated as a winter festival of family and friendship and giving and enjoyment - that's why I love it. That's why its so lovely and great.
Happy Birthday of Mithra. Hopefully, Diwali and Dusshera will never be co-opted by the abrahamic conversionists while denigrating the Source.
Going to watch Avatar - directed by the Hindoo Nationalist James Cameron.
Who is this "we", Manju?
Your link shows that some ignorant redneck confused a greek orthodox priest for an arab terrorist and beat him up.
This is no longer the case in the new millenium wherein many things Desi are considered "cool" like herbal healing, yoga, meditation, Bollywood, OM and shanti.
In post-modern multi-culti America, the more "exotic" you are, the better. Kids can easily employ this Desi cool exotic factor into their school life and gain some popularity. 10 years ago this may have still been difficult. But not any more.
You are delusional to think desis are seen as cool in America....
2010 Avatar and noway,
I think both of your opinions are actually correct-- yes in some ways desi culture is seen as 'cool'-- yoga, indian food, slumdog millionaire are all quite appealing things to the American public (though some, like my Aunt, admittedly don't know yoga is from India!) Of course, thinking these things are cool does not always translate over into general acceptance. Also, like I have mentioned before, though small, the South Asian centers with classes on South Asian culture, history, language, and so forth are growing in US universities.
At the same time, I would guess that children in general are still doing what they always do-- which is picking on people that don't fit the norm of whatever society they live in. I still remember my kindergartners telling a boy in there class he wasn't allowed to like dolls because he was a boy-- even by age 5 they have picked up these 'rules' and attempt to force others in their age group to follow them. I don't doubt it would be much different for kids if someone wore their salwaar suit to school or had uncut hair/turban, etc. Unless of course, the community either sees this as a norm already, or if the parents/educators are doing a very good job teaching the children to be open minded about different cultures.
Isn't Christmas just the Big Guy's offspring's birthday?
I don't celebrate xmas. But I make it a point to say Merry Xmas instead of Happy Holidays to everyone. Most of the time people (even turbaned ones) respond with a equally cheery Merry xmas. Some of them respond with Happy Holidays. It's usually the xtians trying to be sensitive.
Linzi,
I think that is a good reason to continue to develop positive images of south asians in the US, if south asian children did feel in some ways second-class or vulnerable because of their heritage, that should be and would be quite worrisome.
I don't think in many places in the US that would be so. It seems quite passe to pass judgment in that way, and it was so when I was young as well. Our society in general should become concerned if there is a wide-spread sector of it's children who are second-class in this way.
Needless to say, you can celebrate or acknowledge Christmas, even if you are not a Christian. Our family has been doing that for 30 years. We have a dinner, family get-together, exchange a few gifts, and listen to Christmas music. In order to deep into the historical or spiritual significance of Christmas, you probably have to be a devout Christian. But how many even professing Christians are like that? Christmas nowadays does seem to revolve around the 'externals'. Christmas 'shopping' is a big issue for many people.
I have a hard time understanding why these differences in clothing and fabric are so out of bounds. A turban is made generally I believe of cotton, and it's wrapped around the head. A salwar kameez is often made of cotton, maybe polyester, and comes in two parts, a bottom piece that may be known as a pajama, and a top piece, which is very similiar to a shirt.
Why are these things, when worn by another person, license for someone to be a target of scorn or anger. It does seem to occur, but why is this so, and why is it apparently common and reasonable. There is something wrong with a situation where these objects provoke out-sized anger, and the wearer is made to feel shame that he or she has chosen to wear these pieces of clothing.
As a secular holiday of good cheer, why not celebrate? More awkward is the preliminary "happy holidays" when it'd be perfectly fine to say "merry christmas".
As a time when according to the Eastern Orthodox I believe, it's a time to be present to mark the time when God became incarnate on Earth, it's a pretty profound reason to mark an occasion.
As a club to wield against the enemies of polyglot culture, it's not as appealing.
Ennis, all religious and religiously oriented holidays are juicy with tradition and it's unfeeling and drab to lump them all under a generic Happy Holidays. It's not so much inclusive as homogenizing, which sort of takes the color and meaning out of things. One thing we got right in Desh is equidistant secularity, so that all kinds of different communities celebrate each other's festivals and enjoy one another instead of trying to squash all of them into one thing. That kind of constructive engagement is either still to come or being knocked off course by all this Happy Holidays brouhaha in the US.
Yoga Fire is absolutely correct about all this piggy backing, but of course Christmas is piggy backed on Yule too, which is undeniably the only sensible way to deal with the onset of winter-- party down and call midwinter the start of a new year.
This is usually followed by a head-cocked sideways, blank-stare look.
"One thing we got right in Desh is equidistant secularity, so that all kinds of different communities celebrate each other's festivals and enjoy one another instead of trying to squash all of them into one thing."
I agree... I think India has the right idea in this regard--- we should not be trying to strip the religion out of holidays, instead we should just learn about and celebrate the different religious holidays. This is where I think many western countries are going wrong-- trying to strip religion out of every public event-- it should not be so, we should just be respecting each other's religion, and the government itself should not be following just ONE and ignoring the rest.
If they are hot, they are.
Good looking people are always seen as cool.
Anyway, U.S. is so multi-culti and p.c. right now that anything goes - so take advantage!
Linzi, I don't know if it's the place of the government to celebrate ANY religious Holy Day, whether it's 1 or 100.
I mean, I guess it's a nice gesture if they do, but it should in no way be a requirement or even expected.
When Hindus celebrate Diwali, Muslims celebrate Ramadan and Sikhs celebrate Guru Jayanti - do they say "happy holidays" to each other?
2010 Year of Avatar - noway is Prema, a troll who seems to hate all things desi. I've definitely experienced what you are saying. I just got back from seeing my cousin who's in hs and she wears many Indian clothes, (kurtas, salvar tops, etc) and Indian shoes (in the summer with her outfits) - and yeah it's all considered cool. Though she's a very pretty girl, and hs that seems to mean a lot regardless - and that's not a good thing.
"When Hindus celebrate Diwali, Muslims celebrate Ramadan and Sikhs celebrate Guru Jayanti - do they say "happy holidays" to each other?"
in the u.s, there are no holidays for any of them, so it doesn't make any sense to call it happy holidays. i think people shouldn't get offended for either, both are perfectly valid ways to wish you well. but for me, merry christmas makes most sense than anything else for the christmas break we are enjoying. isnt' there something magical about christmas even for a non-religious person, the lights, snow (too much of it if you were in the wrong part of the country, sorry), holidays, gifts, parties
NOT. On both accounts.
Why is that not a good thing. It's been scientifically proven that humans respond favorably to attractive visual stimulai. I fail to see how that's a negative.
Usually people who whine about not being accepted are those who do not look good.
There are ways to improve looks that don't cost a lot or require surgery.
Why is that not a good thing.
Really? You have to ask? Simply put, there's more important things in life - character, leadership, intelligence - that have nothing to do with looks. In HS, and yes I am generalizing, children are at an age, where looks seem to predominate over other more important things. I'm hoping my little cousin won't be like that and I am working with her to get involved in activities and to read things, that can put things in perspective and build her character so she doesn't rely on just her looks. Nothing wrong in looking good, count yourself blessed if you are, but no need to place good looks over more important attributes - that's the bad part.
And I'm not an expert on whining on not looking good - perhpas you are which is why you know their perspective. Recogizing that looks should not be considered very important, when attributes such as a good character and intelligence are much more important, is common sense to me.
2010: The Year of the Desi Avatar, PS was not calling you Prema. She was suggesting that the commenter "noway" who posted comment number 55 might be it.
Cheerio.
"Recogizing that looks should not be considered very important, when attributes such as a good character and intelligence are much more important, is common sense to me."
Of course other attributes are important as well - such as character and intelligence, but let's face it, good looks can get your front foot in a lot of doors, opening up further oppurtunities.
Also, when choosing a mate - which one of us would say that looks "should not be considered very important"???
Looks ARE important. Other attributes are ALSO important.
As anyone else found Desi mythic parrallels in the move 2010? I mean, beyond just the Vaishnava tilak on the aliens?
Najeeb, Hannukah is celebrated by less than two percent of the US population, so it's not inconceivable that Diwali will be observed by an increasingly significant number of people here before long, but I still don't want Diwali homogenized into a Happy Holiday. I have no beef with Christmas, and I do go to Midnight Mass etc., and I think most of what you are enjoying is Yule, but most of all, I think there's no good reason to make an all out effort to discredit the culture of Christmas.
This is HILARIOUS. Bear with it and read start to finish, LOL:
Desis as a generalization aren't seen as "hot", "cool" or "good looking" by americans. You are still delusional..
But don't worry, so are the majority of posters here and in every other desi forum. Desis are like this onlee. ;)
I know. We have a tendency towards geekiness. However, when we are hot, we are REALLY hot. Some of the hottest looking people I've ever met have been Desi. But granted, I don't run into those types everyday.
The hot looking Desis I do know however are very liked and popular and don't have a bitter p.c. chip on their shoulders. That's probably because they experience little to no negative feedback from those around them.
LandBeyond7Zs, I loved your post!
Ennis, I wish I'd seen your post on Christmas Day. The reason I didn't is that my awesome, atheist in-laws believe in celebrating Christmas to the hilt. All their tree ornaments are tiny plastic dinosaurs, but the other traditions (food, presents, presents, food, singing) are intact. As an ex-convent school girl, I start off loving the carols, and the nativity scenes. But by the end of the season, "We Three Kings" and "The Little Drummer Boy" are the only songs I can tolerate (and I won't even touch the date-rapey "Baby it's Cold Outside"). My grinchiest moments, however, are reserved for the the tacky, color uncoordinated, massive energy-suck Christmas lights and the ugly inflatable lawn ornaments.
I don't think the younger readers here get exactly what's so boorish about blanketing everyone with "Merry Christmas." And all the arguments about how minority celebrations mimic Christmas celebrations only serve to demonstrate that culture and religion are constantly mutating, so that point doesn't go too far with me. I do know that my favorite weekend was the one with the belated Hanukkah, the early Solstice, and the Caroling parties; and I'd hate to lose that multi-culti sense of inclusivity and inventiveness. So when I see someone with a charming T-shirt that says "It's Merry Christmas, you politically correct bastard" on the front and "Learn English or get out of my country" on the back, I smile sweetly and lie about how I don't celebrate Christmas.
Happy Holidays refers generically to Happy Newton's Birthday and Happy New Year. This was you don't have to offend either the Newtonians or the Copernicans by wishing them them joy on the wrong occasion.
Honestly, except for the devotees of Malkin and O'Reilly, I've never heard of any American being offended by Happy Holidays. And while Hanukkah may only be celebrated by 2% of America, where I grew up it was close to half of the neighborhood, so I have always had very good reasons not to assume that people will be happy to be wished a Merry Christmas.
I will gladly wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas, but I haven't done anything more to commemorate the date than Chinese food and a movie in a decade, and wish to resist the political spin from those who believe that America is a Christian country, Christmas is a Christian holiday, and therefore all patriotic Americans should and must celebrate C H R I S T mas.
Big business will take all the money they can get in the fourth quarter, hence “Happy Holidays.” Right-wing pundits need to invent new inexpensive ways to justify their audience’s white hot rage, hence “War on Christmas.” That said, anyone offended by Merry Christmas should go out more and get some fresh air.
Mr.X are you DBD/IBD or ABD? In America, from Puritan Times, the celebration of Christmas has always been both political and contentious. You might think that's weird, but resisting Christmas is as much an American tradition as celebrating it.
Wow, Ennis. If starting a war on "Merry Christmas" is your idea of taking a stand on the idea that America is a Christian country, you will just be dismissed as a loon. And justifiably so. Christmas has become a generic cultural holiday at this point, and is only Christian in comparison to the Mardi Gras celebration at Orleans. Most rational people do not believe that the "Merry Christmas" greeting is an exhortation, invitation, or even a hint that the only true path to salvation is to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. The fact that you don't enjoy the holiday season or celebrate it is just fine, but when the majority of people do, and wish you for the season in a very common way, the answer is to be graceful and wish them back, not increase your risk of cardiac arrest.
From even before the birth of America, taxes have been political and contentious, and resisting taxes has a storied history in America. That doesn't mean the teabaggers are kind of ridic.
That doesn't mean the teabaggers are kind of ridic.
Obviously, I meant to say: That doesn't mean the teabaggers aren't kind of ridic.
I think I understand Ennis's frustrations. I don't mind Christmas season, since it means I get a few weeks off from school. But, it seems like some people become overly religious to compensate for fears over the secularization of Christmas. As an example, my mom came home with a greeting card her co-workers gave her that said "For unto you is born this day, a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." That just irks me, because they know full well that my mom is Hindu.
As much as I hate to do so, I have to come down on Ennis' side on this one. Within the american context, participating or not-participating in christmas, prefering happy holidays over merry christmas and so on, is an important cultural issue with a long history.
So lets not all believe that its just some minor issue thats being over-analyzed or some eccentric choice on Ennis' part.
Fox "News" has only been around since 1996.
Give us some examples of desi-americans who are viewed as "REALLY hot" by american standards. You are still too delusional in the usual desi ridiculously self-aggrandizing way. Humility is a virtue didn't you know?
Prema, we are all ugly, poor, starve our children, and are generally devoid of any redeeming value. Now will you please leave us alone to wallow in the misery of our inhumanity? Why do you sully your exalted self by mingling with our lumpen selves?
Prema wrote:
You're a fine one to talk.
When Glenn Beck went on his arrogant anti-India tirade, you were cheering him on.
aiyyo wrote:
Aiyyo, there are some people who simply cannot feel good about themselves unless they put down others.
So many of my parents' generation cry out for us American kids becoming too westernized and American, and losing our culture and religion.
This seems to be a major issue for people who come from the middle east/south asian countries who come to the west. I always love how immigrants parents love to talk about how bad western culture is and also many others parts of the world they talk about the negative influence of western culture. But if people in america started talking about the negative influence of eastern culture. Many here would started accusing those of racism.
Why our very own commenter, PS says this in comment # 68 http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/006059.html#comment266347
She'll obviously have no problem getting dates and scoring cute boyfriends.
I agree that MANY Desi Americans could use EXTREME make-overs. However there are some really good looking Desis out there. You may not be one, nor I, but they are out there.
Thank for sharing,I like it
Why our very own commenter, PS says this in comment # 68
wth? Somehow things got misunderstood. PS, me, is not Prema.
Avatar (both of you guys), I am agreeing with you - in fact I find desis gorgeous and most desi girls I know don't have problems getting noticed. You say some desis need extreme makeovers...lol...most nondesis I see need extreme makeovers. And for the last time, I do notice a trend, that a minority can be exoticized and I have often seen this with south asian culture. As I said, I have definitely see where it is cool to be desi, at the same time, some of my desi friends recounted experiences to me where they were teased for the food they brought to school, clothes they wore, etc. I guess it depends. But with popular embracing much that is desi, I see often where desi culture is considered cool. why is that even an issue? You'd have to be delusional to not notice :)
But Ennis, you just wrote that a bunch of people around you now get all aggressive about Happy Holidays ("Where I live in the Midwest, strangers answer your Happy Holidays with a Merry Christmas in such a way to make me want to declare war against it"). I assume they are offended by Happy Holidays. I agree with you 100% that what we mainly do in December is celebrate Yule. I think Desi Americans should do the Desi thing and celebrate Christmas and Hannukah and Kwanzaa in whatever way comes to hand!
@Amrita: I assume that those people are, in fact, devotees of O'Reilly and Malkin.
@Alberuni: Thanks, I think.
Ennis do you think that non-sikh's who live in Punjab have the right to complain about the celebration of Baisakhi and have people wish them happy holiday instead. After all the % of sikh population is just above 50% right now, as more non-sikhs from other part of India come there for work. I could only image the outrage of the Sikh community there if they had to cut down on there celebrations of Baisakhi to offend non sikhs.
And don't even get started on being a non-muslim living in muslim country about Muslim holidays. There good chance if you complained in public, you would have to worry about you personel safety.
I don't think Baisakhi is analogous to Christmas. But generally the more compelling story in my opinion about punjab is the economic model is not sustainable. No amount of cultural cache can change facts on the ground. The economic position of the Sikh community after the end of Ranjit Singh's kingdom and into the British colonial period is probably more responsible for whatever pre-eminence was enjoyed which privileged Sikh cultural aspects in Punjab.
Punjab's economy is far too dependence on agriculture, as Navjot Sidhu recently said and others have noted for a while. That model is wilting in the mid west in the US, and can't succeed probably anywhere. On of the big reasons people leave Punjab in droves is they have the money from agriculture to migrate, but that money is not going to generate new income. There is not enough industrial growth in Punjab and thus a serious lack of jobs. People can start to de-emphasize the importance of punjab, punjabis and Sikhs from the out-sized place they took in the past. That was a result of historic, mostly economic circumstances, and that time is coming to an end. As a sikh you have to learn to make it in Dehli, Bombay, Bangalore, overseas, because there is not much to make it with in punjab. And so any cultural cache that comes with being punjabi is at least in part off-set by being a new-comer and outsider in the communities where the jobs mostly are.
Additionally wanted to mention the preponderance of Sikhs in Punjab state has not really been the case for much of the time, meaning that living in a state in which sikhs constitute the majority or plurality is not the predominant position Sikhs have been in in the past, and probably the better part of many ideas that make up roughly "Sikh" ideas are those that pertain to a pluralist context
Wanted to add, that does not have to mean a waning of Sikh cultural activity. I think among those who enjoy, know about, and participate in Sikh or Punjabi culture writ large, there can and should be much vibrancy. Being multi-national can be a source of increase generally. It does mean though that maybe the community can recede somewhat into a background vis a vis it's distorted importance in relation to other regions of the sub-continent.
@Sukhi I don't wish my Buddhist friends a happy Hanukkah. I don't wish my Muslim friends a happy Gurpurab. I don't wish my Christian friends a happy Diwali. So why should people wish me a Merry Christmas when I've said something generic like Season's Greetings? And in a capitalist country that believes in free enterprise, why should people petition and boycott big retailers like Target for saying "Happy Holiday" and not "Merry Christmas"?
I gladly and happily wish my Christmas observing friends a Merry Christmas. I just don't like having somebody turn away my appropriate greeting and pointedly wish me another one. I have jewish friends who get very religious Christmas cards from their coworkers. I don't think these same coworkers would appreciate getting cards about other religions' holidays though.
The USA was *founded* by Christians who left England in part because they objected to the celebration of Christmas. I'm not being unamerican by contesting this issue, quite the opposite.
ps Vaisakhi was a harvest / new years festival long before it was a Sikh religious holiday, and it is celebrated in its original secular sense across Punjab. It's like happy new years.
tne analogy does not hold with merry christmas in the us
the celebration of christmas in the 1700s has no similarity to celebration of christmas today.
not unamerican, just silly, which i guess is pretty american, if one thinks about it.
Honestly, except for the devotees of Malkin and O'Reilly, I've never heard of any American being offended by Happy Holidays.
Well, the devotees of Malkin and O'Reilly make up a huge segment of American society.
Personally, being a Christian desi, I like to find out what aggravates people the most, and then go with that decision. It is completely idiotic to be offended by "Happy Holidays." Holidays is derived from "holy days," its use seeks to include religion as a factor for the season. But, on the other hand, I love saying Merry Christmas to folks offended by that. I simply don't get how that is offensive. I fundamentally I don't view Thanksgiving as a holy day nor one woth celebrating, but when people wish Happy Thanksgiving to me, I don't get offended. I was with a co-worker the other day who was an Orthodox Jew. Someone addressed both of us with "Happy Hannukkah" - I didn't find that the least offensive.
Why?
Disney's latest movie casts a Desi as the hero:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/223508
ennis, do you also suffer from increased risk of heart attack every friday because your workplace chose to give the weekend as a holiday, something that originated because sunday is the day of the lord which is the memorial of the resurrection of jesus christ?
2010: YEAR of the DESI AVATAR
On the topic of getting aggravated by hearing "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Crhistmas" - to me it seems like such a silly thing to get aggravated over, I get joy in working people up over it. The Germans call this schadenfreude (sp.). I suppose it's in line with saying "Bah Humbug."
Just felt like quoting Bart Simpson: "Christmas is a time when people of all religions come together to worship Jesus Christ." Happy New Year!!
And thanks for introducing me to Goodness Gracious Me. It's so good... I haven't been able to get enough of it!!
"If every Sunday, people walked up to him and said, "Happy Day of the Lord", he might."
Really?
Did it happen when ennis red Anna's post
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004045.html